Prometheus 2 plot, possible just speculation not FACT

Oh in March i was told about Concept Works...

Which Included...

*Dark Looking World that looked more like LV-426 than LV-223 nevermind Paradise.

* Jugernaught flying in Space with what looked like a Nebula behind it.

* A ship that was similar to the Jugernaught but different, i.e Giger inspired design.

* A Giant Blueish Gas Planet, that had 4 Moons near it....  but person said it could had been a Blue Star, and 4 Worlds?

* A Valley of Statues like the Valley of the Kings Eygpt some Human looking others no so, and in a state of Ruin.

* A Black Obelisk that seemed to not be in ruined condition and alive with a Green Glow comming from it, like the Green Crystal on the Altar in Prometheus.

* A Chamber with like Pods that looked like those from the Matrix and 6th day that had Humanoids inside that looked like Babies a bit, well similar to some of the Cloned Ripleys from Alien Resurection.

* A Biomechanical Wall or Machine that had a Humanoid connected to it, like the Deacon was fused to the Mural in Prometheus and they said it was like a Giger Take on the Robot Girl from Superman 3.

* Large Part Bio-Mechanical looking Part Rock Citadel Building sitting in like a crater/dry moat, covered in low clouds etc pretty much like the Shot of the Derelict in Alien. They said it looked like a Giger Take on the Tower of Babel

Update:  I forgot to put in last post, but i did message 3 people this.... in September here is some stuff i forgot to add to the last post.

* As far as the Paradise Lost, we can draw some things from it and connect to the Engineers and Punishment and Xeno and Serpents, and that if we read parts of Paradise lost about the Fallen Angels turning to Serpents... and that this theme is loosely explored as far as a part of what is going on in the Franchise... and that this connection is actually seen as a Freedom from Bondage rather than Punishment.

they was vague but i think somehow they mean loosely how God Turned some of the Fallen Angels to Serpents and Cast them out....

Managed to speak to a friend who is in contact with the source and have a few updates.

They are not willing to discus nothing about the movie, and said even if they did know they would spill no beans.... the only information this friend (well my brothers friend) had said is they claim that Production had began in the Summer in somepart but was due to get into main gear as of October/November to Shoot March 2016 or so this was the plans as of March 2015.

They said that they had a change of mind with regards to where they are going with the movie Franchise, and wished to make it more of a connection to Alien Franchise as they felt Prometheus to some was too distant from Alien as far as connections and they now wish to go back to the Alien and the events that led to Alien as opposed to stear futher away. 

They was eventually going to provide more answers to the Xeno, LV-426 and LV-223 connection but they had instead decided to cover the Xeno more and tone down the other elements as they felt the Franchise is more about the Xenomorph, why it was made and by who and so the Engineers role in creating such a Bio-weapon was what they feel fans would want to go and see rather than following the Engineers and their Culture... 

They dont know the Plot of Covenant they claim, but they would not let any information slip even if they did... the only thing they said was that the intended Franchise is not going to completely rule out covering the Engineers, they are still going to play a role.  But they are trying to Tidy up a Complex Story that may not engage Fans, to be one that would bring fans onboard and link to Alien Franchise and Alien 5.   They can not say what plans they have for David and Shaw but they definitely not closing the Door on the Engineers and their Dark Agenda.  

And while it seems the next movie would be more Xenomorphy... the Prequel Franchise and Aliens Sequel (Alien 5) will introduce newer forms of the Xeno.

The only information they had with regards to Production and Shooting is that some work had begun on ideas for the Original Concept and these would not be disused but introduce latter, but work on major Props and Sets for Alien: Covenant would be worked on mid January which include the Covenant Colony Ship itself ready for shooting end of March 2016.

They also said that (Fox/Ridley) should have all major casting roles signed on by February 18th with other less roles by the end of March.  And so after February 26th we can expect a few names to come out as far as other cast members.

Again take it with pinch of salt... the person who told me this got this information from the Source January 19th  and the Source does not have any information regarding what Alien: Covenant Plot would cover as the information they had was based on Micheal Greens Draft (October 2014) and not the re-work and NEW draft done by John Logan worked on through October 2015.

Big Dave: ” as they felt Prometheus to some was too distant from Alien as far as connections and they now wish to go back to the Alien and the events that led to Alien as opposed to stear futher away.”

That is cool I guess but I hope that they will not ignore the Engineers totally, that would be bad. I think that the story of the Engineers really has potential but that they should connect it with the Xeno more than they meant to do when they released Prometheus. Having a pure Xeno movie would be a bit boring (been there seen that) but allowing it to have a bigger role than they thought about before is OK to me.  

I would like to know more about the Engineers and their culture while also know more about the Xeno but they should leave some mystery about it also I think. It is good that they won’t ignore them totally because that would be a shame if they did. Somehow I think that they need to make the Engineers more threatening and not let them be a match to our DNA. Make the Engineers less human, that would be cool because that is less known and hence more threatening I think. People are more afraid of things that they don't understand which could work with the Engineers.

Two things that they need to do I think is to make the Engineers interesting and also have characters that you care about. David was well done but you need more than that. Hopefully they have someone this time that knows how to write good characters (and yes that includes the Engineers also).

Well i think they was disapointed with the Engineers, and especially the Elders... Ridley said the Elders did not look as Godlike as they wanted, and they felt that scene was not needed as it gave too much about the Engineers away....  And Ridley said he did not want to meet God in the first movie.

What i think happened was they was disapointed with the Frail looking Elders, and wanted to re-design them for the Sequel.... and maybe have something more Godlike, and so the Engineers get relegated to being just servants... i think this is why so many scenes of the Engineers had been cut....  the Version we got in the Cinema just showed the Engineers to be Agressive SOB's who disliked Mankind, but also used as Sacrifices to Seed Worlds, and then to be Tasked with messing about with Dangerous Biology and Bio-Weapons....

So in effect the Engineers came across more like Biological Terminators.... if we looked at the Full Engineer Scenes including the ones we had not seen which in Full Sacrifical Scene... and the Engineer Full Speaks Scene.... (The Deleted Scenes are still not the full ones) and the Engineer with the Book in Vickers Lifeboat...... they all Portrayed the Engineers differently than the way the Cut we had did.

So these cuts may be a way to change how they want to show us he Engineers and so maybe they are just Tools/Servents to another Race... much like David is to Mankind.

I certainly hope they are not going to abandon the Engineers or their Hierarchy but i think a U-Turn has happened as far as  Tone Down Engineer Elements, and Detail the Xeno Elements more....   Spaights (Engineers) draft started off being 50/50 Engineers and hints of Culture and Xeno related Bio-Weapons and Experiments.. and it never answered both fully... just proved to be a starter and a prologue to explore in future....  Paradise (Lindeloffs) and Final Prometheus movie idea... Toned down the Xeno, and Detailed the Engineers more to about 70/30 in favour of Engineers but also never directly gave Xeno DNA clues like the Spaights movie and so while 30% of Prometheus was Xeno-Related DNA that DNA was not as higher % of Xeno as Spaights.  

The movie came out and had cuts that cut down Engineer connections.... and the movie was setting up to maybe explore more of the Engineers and so would have even less Xeno DNA.

Seems they had a U-Turn and now they want to show is more Xeno than Engineers, i think the idea is that Fans and General Puplic would be more open to a Alien Prequel that actually covers the Alien so that it pleases the Fans and the General Puplic would Finally get a movie that makes more sense and they can see connection to Alien... as i think in General most never saw how Prometheus linked to Alien.... most who saw Alien movies never really paid attention to the Space Jockey or Derelict Ship as in the Alien Franchise both only saw a little screen time.. So its only Sci-Fi Fans and Alien Fans who noticed those.

Before when they gave us the Engineers and the Plot they created us and potentially other life, this Elevated the Engineers to being the Biggest thing in the Franchise....  Mankind is merely a creation of the Engineers, the Xeno merely a Tool of Destruction....  I now think they want to make the Franchise about the Xeno and Mankind and the Engineers to be covered vaguely... this will set up a Prequel Series that showcases the Xeno its Origin and reasons for it and Mankinds connection.... as well as to explain the Engineers involvement to a degree...

This would then give the Origins and Answers to Alien.... JOB DONE.... and if done right, it also allows Alien 5 and Alien 6 to showcase Engineers Tech and Evil Biology and then should let Fans then wonder.... WHO ARE THESE ENGINEERS?  This could get fans who never saw Prometheus or never got it... to then re-watch it and then want movies that will ANSWER who are the Engineers in which case Fox gets freedom to then Branch off and cover the Engineers in detail and steer away from the Xeno...... as it is just a small part in the whole Engineer Agenda and Culture.....

If you read the above Paragraph backwards you will see that its matches what Prometheus was trying to show, and what Ridleys comments all the way to prior to Alien: Covenant was doing....

Now if we take Ridleys im comming in from the back end...  if Ridleys Original idea was like my paragraph backwards.... then going to that paragraph from the back end.... gives you the way things seem to be going now......  

So instead of Explore Engineers, minor hints to Xeno, then end with more clues and Answers to the Xeno.....  they could not be concentrating on the Xeno clues, with clues to the Engineers playing a Role and then ending with exploring the Engineers in detail last...

At least i hope so...

Big Dave:

I don’t think that it would make sense to cut out the Engineers totally because it feels that they had just begun to tell that part of it. People that saw the Engineers for the first time and became curious about who they are might get disappointed if they are not in the next movie and would be like “what ever happened to the big guys?” so I don’t think that they will get rid of the Engineers but they got to make them interesting and also make sense of them.

Maybe a little Xeno connection is OK but I don’t want a pure Xeno movie. Exploring the culture of the Engineers would be interesting but try to make them more threatening and maybe less human like. For example: a monkey and a human share DNA but they are not the same, the same could be done with the Engineers.

Perhaps they don’t need to explain the Engineers and Xeno fully, a little mystery is good but it got to be explained in a way that makes sense. If you explain some things well people might not be that annoyed by the things that they are not spoon fed. One problem with P1 was that there were too many things that didn’t make sense and also that they didn’t flesh out the characters didn’t make it better.

A bit more of the Xeno would be OK but it shouldn’t be a Xeno movie I think (we already have four Xeno movies, LOL). They could have maybe 70% Engineer and 30% Xeno. Inside that 70% Engineer they could also show if the Engineers made other monsters than the Xeno that we know, that could be interesting if the monsters are done right. While many people might view the Xeno as a threat then after some more Prometheus movies that view might change so the Engineers are now shown as the mean bastards, that would be interesting but you got to make them into a convincing threat.

Maybe the Engineers also did other monsters? If they made other monsters they don’t need to be that many since then the Xenos would still be special if they are one of few live forms that the Engineers view as well developed weapons. As far as inspirations for something dangerous you can look around in the world and think about different scenarios and then you have a picture of what it can be about. Take some crazy bastards with a huge ego and a wish for world domination and let them develop biological weapons and then you have a potential for an interesting movie.

I think that it can be difficult to see how Prometheus linked to Alien if you hadn’t watched Alien before, I wouldn’t have made that connection. One of my friends told me that it was an Alien prequel, I never understood that while I watched the movie. When he told me I was like “well that makes sense”. Of course, if you have something featured in a movie for just a short time then how can they pay attention to it? Alien (1979) is about two hours long and how long is the scene with the Space jockey? With this in mind it isn’t surprising that many didn’t think about the SJ that much. Honestly I am not even sure if all Alien fans understood the connection between the Engineer and the Space Jockey but that is just how I look at it.

Having the movie being about mankind wouldn’t be as interesting to me compared to if it would be about the Engineers and their monsters. There are enough movies about mankind already or at least that isn’t a new idea, the Engineers and their monsters on the other hand have potential. Some answers to the Alien could be OK but leave some mystery about it. I still think that the Xenos are interesting enough to watch the Alien movies now and then so by having them explained in detail would take away what is interesting about the Alien movies.

Please no Alien 5 and/or 6, there are already four movies out there and Alien 4 wasn’t really that good. Also when answering who the Engineers are I also think that they need to leave some space for people to use their imagination as far as the Engineers go, that is what made the Xeno effective because it did that (made you use your imagination).

Hopefully they will give us more info about the Engineers and focus less on the Xeno but still explain some of the Xeno, that would be an interesting movie I think at least it has potential to be so. I hope that they will get it right this time (a script that makes sense, interesting characters, and so on).

I understand your concerns and wishes... and seemed the next movie was going to be more to the tastes of yourself..... and me too... HOWEVER.... the way the next movie is going i would be prepared to be Disapointed.

It seems it will feature less Engineers,  Prometheus set up the Story for Engineers because of the Plot and that was Shaw and Holloway finding clues via Archaeological finds that all shared same depictions of Giant Godlike beings worshiped by Man, that all seem to link a certain Star Chart/Map.  Shaw and Holloway felt these were clues left by Ancient Gods to come and find them... Shaw and Holloway and the Mission knew they could potentially find Giant Beings but they had no idea of what these beings were working with..... The Black Goo etc.

We saw Dead Engineers, We saw Ghost Engineers, they examined a Engineer Head and found a Live Engineer......   not to mention the opening Scene showed us a Engineer.

The movie only had vague lose clues to the Xenomorph.... Mural, Frescos (which never fully appeared so Audience would not have noticed), the effects of the Goo, produced the Hammerpedes and its look and Acid Blood.....  but these where very vague not everyone would have noticed the DNA links..... then we had Shaws Baby, that grew to the Trilobite... which Face Hugged the Engineer and Produced the Deacon Chest Buster....  the Adult Trilobite and Decon Chest Buster where the Major Xeno DNA Links...

But they was vague...

I expect a U-Turn in the next movie, where the Xeno links and DNA would be as Evident as the Engineers in Prometheus and the Engineers will apear vaguely as the Xeno DNA did in Prometheus.

But i think  they would not abandon the Engineers, and i feel the next movie after which could be Alien: Paradise Lost could well be where we see more of our Engineers....

It seems they had a plan.... Prometheus ==> Paradise Lost ==>Final Movie!

Where Prometheus laid down foundations for the Engineers/Space Jockey and mildy covered the Xeno.... the next movie Paradise Lost would have covered the Engineers, their purpose and some of Shaws Answers... it would have loosely linked Xeno answers.... then we would have got the Final Movie that would have provided the Aftermath to Shaw and Davids meetings with beings Related to Engineers and then gave us more Clues to the Xenomorph the Xeno Origins would be explained... and we would have a more 50/50 Xeno/Engineer movie.... thats the way things looked.

Now what they have done is changed things.... it seems they now want to answer the Xeno Question a bit more and so we have..

Prometheus ==> Alien Covenant ==> Alien Paradise Lost ==> Alien Prequel 2 ==> Maybe Final Part.

Where Alien Covenant will bring new Plot to it, that can be used to explore Xeno DNA, and where Alien Covenant events occur after most of Alien Paradise Losts...... then we get Paradise Lost that would cover more of the Engineers and also what happend prior to Covenant and after Prometheus.....   this will be a re-write of the Original Paradise Lost Plot... then the next movie would maybe touch upon parts of what the 3rd Prometheus Movie was supposed to.... and FINALLY a 4th movie would be made purely to show the SPACE JOCKEY Story.

Thats how it all seems to me..

Here is the emphasise on the new Direction of the Movie Franchise... reading from the Synopsis and Ridleys related Comments.

*Showcase the World of the Engineers and what state it is in... (Destruction)

*David will be alone on this world, but there is a Evolving Organism created by the Engineers or using their Evil Biology

*New Human Crew of a Colony Ship arrive at this World expecting Paradise but find a Dark and Dangerous World... the most of them will be Fodder to the Evolving Organism. Maybe even used as Hosts.

*The movie will show us and re-introduce the Xenomorph, we shall see all of its Stages.

*The movie is set to explore who created the Xeno, and how and why... and why it is Bio-Mechanical....  but it is to set the seeds to these Answers that a 2nd movie would explore more (thus Engineer and Xeno connection).

*By the time they Finish the Franchise we shall know WHY, WHEN and HOW the Xenomorph was created and WHY, WHEN  and HOW the Space Jockey ended up on LV-426 with that Cargo.

*The movie Franchise will connect to Ripley starting with Covenant but he would not say how.

We have to assume within the next 1-2 movies after Alien Covenant we will cover the Engineers more, and resolve some of those Questions from Prometheus... but we cant be sure how much we shall see.....  but the Fact that we shall see the Space Jockey Explained by the end of 2-3 movies latter means they would have to touch upon the Space Jockey and Engineers.

The next few movies leave us with a few Problems... which could be rays of hope...

Ridley has said and it is for a good reason... that this movie has to be out before Alien 5, and that Alien: Covenant shall come out First, and then Alien 5 shall come out next... Then we shall have at least One Sequel to Alien: Covenant but it may even take a 3rd Alien Prequel (not inc Prometheus) to Final Get to the Back End of Alien and Explain the Space Jockey.... 

Alien 5 is now set to have Newt, who may be passed the torch and so you can bet this means a Alien 6.....  Now... can you really see them make starting with Alien: Covenant 5 more Alien Related Movies?    If thats the case, i cant see them make 5 Alien movies that will be all about the Traditional Xenomorph from Alien or any related to the same kind of Egg Cargo one the Derelict and also to not cover the Engineers in depth.

So there is hope... unless they are going for the Cash Money Cow!

Here are those Problems...

*No Mention of Shaw, and Rappace may not be in the next movie.... are they going to completely make 2-3 more movies and connect to Alien and exclude Shaw and what happens between when she collects David in Two Parts to when the Covenant Crew Arrive, is left unanswered.....? 

*No Mention of Engineers, the World they find is devastated, with only David alone, and some Evolving Xeno Related Organism, that may be the Xeno or gives rise to a Xeno?  So are we not going to see Engineers? Are we not going to get answers Shaw wants... even if Shaw is to never appear....  Ridley claims we shall be shown, how and why the Beast was created and hints they (Engineers) created it...  so we have to see some elements of the Engineers but will we see any Engineers?   Imagine no Sacrifice Scene in Prometheus and the Last Engineer was dead too.... maybe we see his lifeless body and then a Chest Buster popped out and hunted down the Prometheus Crew..... the movie would been similar.. would given less clues to the Engineers though...    So we cant rule out the next movie would have not so much Engineer Scenes.

*Are they going to completely avoid the above 2... and so Prometheus role in the Franchise was quite pointless?  and what about the Talk about Engineers, Gods, Devils, Fallen Angels and Paradise Lost.... are these things going to be completely removed? maybe from the next movie but surely loosely they have to pop up in the next few movies?

*The Covenant Crew will have a lead Role, Officer Daniels... are they going to build up a lead Character then drop her from the next movies like Shaw?  This would work if Shaw appears in the next movie... but if Shaw is removed from future movies.... then they surely cant do the same with Daniels.... and so she must survive for the next movie.... which then means how does the Engineers get introduced?  and if its within the Timeline of Alien Covenant... surely the Engineers that apear are Benevolent towards Daniels?   As if not how does she overcome Evil Engineers,  Xenomorphs and a David with Bad Intentions...

because if David has good ones, then he would warn the Crew look this place is not safe, lets get the hell out of here.... and then well thats the end of the Prequels.. unless something gets onboard or their is a sneaky Company Type who steals something... related to Xeno DNA.

As far as being disappointed I don’t try to have huge expectations. As long as it is somehow logical and has characters that you can identify with it is OK for me.

 Big Dave:

Maybe it will feature less Engineers than they had planned to do in the beginning but that doesn’t mean that it will be a full on Xeno movie, at least I hope that it won’t be.

The clues to the Xeno were vague but at least I got sort of satisfied when I had watched Prometheus an X amount of times and could figure that out. The fact that I had watched the Alien movies many times before helped. Maybe you could call it detective work, LOL but I understand that not all people have the patience or interest to do so maybe then it would have been better for people in general if they would have been a little more detailed. They could have been more up front with it than they were now (maybe some more of Spaight’s script could have helped) but that doesn’t mean that it should be obvious because then it would take away the fun that’s how I look at it.

Hopefully the clues to the Xenos won’t be overly evident so people can figure things out themselves but they won’t have to be vague Lindelof style. I try to find some middle way in this between obvious and very difficult. They will probably focus more on the Xeno than the Engineers but that shouldn’t mean that they should reject the Engineers totally because they have potential to be interesting but that depends on the way that they are written

The Engineers could get interesting if they explain them somehow, what kind of beings they are, their culture, and their motifs (spelling?).

It would be cool if the Engineer planet would be devastated partially from a civil war. I remember reading somewhere that there were supposedly two factions of the Engineers (this is a memory from long ago so don’t take it too literally) that could be interesting.

Prometheus gave some information about the Engineers but give us more information about them. Make it interesting, logical, but leave some mystery about them (as I hope that they will do with the Xeno).

It is good that they will give us Prometheus 2 first, since the first one was released about 5 years ago. There is no problem to me that it will take a third Prometheus movie to explain the Engineers as long as it is interesting have good characters, is somehow logical, but at the same time has some mystery about it. Prometheus was vague (a little too much probably) but that gives interesting discussions.

I can see why they have Newt in the movie but it would be totally lame to continue the Alien franchise (spelling?) with Newt as the main character. The Alien movies should be buried by now before they turn into a joke to the point where you can’t take Alien and Aliens seriously because they remind you about the crappy movies (and yes I like Alien 3). Maybe this is a disease that Hollywood has: they can’t come up with new ideas so they do movie 5 6 7 about X Y and Z. (Star Wars 7 is an exception but the prequels were not very good so now there are at least 4 good Star Wars movies.) When will someone say that enough is enough? Seriously

I don’t think that there is a problem that we won’t see much of Shaw in Alien: covenant. Like I have said before she isn’t very interesting so I don’t really care that much. My hope is that they will make a good character when it comes to the new female lead.

One thing that could be cool is if Shaw doesn’t get the answers that she wants but maybe gets some other interesting information that could also be relevant. We don’t get answers to everything in real life so that could also happen in movies I think. It is almost like you don’t always get what you wish for Christmas but you might get other things that you also enjoy that you didn’t even thought that you would like.

Hopefully we will see the engineers somehow, it would be lame to start with them (Prometheus) and not have them in Alien: Covenant. It would make no sense to have the first movie about them and then totally ignore them in the next one. Prometheus should have some role in the Franchise it would be a mistake to take away all the importance of it. As far as the talk about Gods, devils and so on they can keep it in the movies if they do it in a clever way otherwise they should at least tone down the role of these (which is not to say that they shall avoid them). The idea of Gods and devils could be done well just look at The Exorcist. Maybe the Excorsist and the Prometheus movies can not be totally compared but at least they could find inspiration in some way. Sometimes you can find inspiration for things where you least expect to find it. They should try to look around and if they don’t have it in P2 then they could use it in later movies if done well (no lazy, lame bullshit script thank you very much).

Daniels is a character that I am looking forward to see how she is. Maybe they have learned from the criticism about the characters in Prometheus? Hopefully they have listened; it would be strange if they haven’t. When I heard about a new female lead character in P2 I became interested. I really hope that she will be more interesting than Shaw.

The Engineers don’t have to be benevolent to Daniels but she should survive anyways (don’t ask me how). If they will kill Shaw then they should let Daniels live. Killing two female lead characters would be lame. How she would survive the Engineers, David and so on: well she could be trained in survival, skills that she had learned on earth and get might get use for at the Engineer planet. Don’t ask me how she got them and how she is using them, it’s just an idea that I have. If you make her an interesting character you might only have to explain quickly how she got these skills.

David and his good and bad sides: I would prefer if he is not all trough bad because we already saw that with Ash in Alien (1979). This is one of the good things about David that he wasn’t all evil in Prometheus you could also see his potentially good sides. Maybe I am exaggerating the good things about David but at least he helped Shaw to get some medicine before she removed the Squid alien and he seemed to care for her before they would leave (“I thought you were dead”, he said that to Shaw or something similar which at least hints that he cares for her in an android kind of way depending on how advanced you think that David is which is if he can feel emotions). If They get out of there at the end of the Prometheus prequels then how does those in Alien (1979) find the Derelict? David could maybe have something to do with the derelict in an indirect way and how could he have that if they just decide to run away from the Engineers? If someone gets on board on their ship and steals some Xeno thing then how would that happen and why?

"Maybe you could call it detective work, LOL but I understand that not all people have the patience or interest to do so "

Thats the thing that Prometheus needed, it helped to see it over and over, to watch the Alien movies, to read the Drafts by Spaights and Lindeloff, look at unused concepts and read Star Beast and then also do a lot of pause screen when watching the movie...

Then you can kind of get it... if you do a CSI Job on it... sadly most people dont have time to bother doing that and so it was to vague....  i think they need to be less ambigious but also they do not want to go and Spoon Feed Answers.

I think they will be moer vague with the Engineers and less with the Xeno for the next movie... i think maybe the 2nd movie would explore the Engineers.

I feel what has happened as i said before is they had a idea... after Prometheus they had the framework for a  Paradise Lost, that would follow Shaw and David and give some answers and maybe give us some insight into the Engineers and what really caused them to create such Evil Bio-Weapons and touch upon Paradise Lost theme of a Rebelion between Fractions.. Ridley mentions Paradise Lost and Fallen Angels quite a bit and so in context then yes if the Engineers on LV-223 were Fallen Angels, then their has to be a Benevolent Fraction and maybe some War....  Paradise Lost Poem starts after the Aftermath of a Holy War of Rebelion between Satan and God and their Angels...  The movie would have followed such themes, and it would have gave more Xeno Clues but it would have been about the Engineers, and what Calamity had happened to cause a War and Rebelion in the ranks and what is the Aftermath.

A 3rd movie would have covered aftermath of Paradise Lost and was to give us more clues to the Xeno so by the end of that movie we would know what happened and have enough clues to peice the Jigsaw together...

But seems Covenant has come in to add a new Plot set 10 years after Prometheus.... that may borrow some of the Original Plot.... its as if  they will be setting the next movie after the events that happen between David leaving LV-223 and arriving on Paradise.....  I cant see them having it that David finds no Engineers, and just there Bio-Weapons.... and then we see Xeno Related Movie that will then lead to YES Two more movies that connect to Alien.. and have it about he Xeno without covering or showing Engineers.  

So i assume Covenant in part is a sequel to Paradise Lost, be like doing a Machette Cut and edit bits in and out of a Franchise of movies.... i think the next movie could have some Flash Backs and cover what happened to Shaw and what Paradise was like when David Arrives.

As far as Shaw goes... i think the movie left us on a IMPORTANT Dynamic between Shaw and David... it would make for some interesting Scenes to see how her persaudes her to put him back together and how the Hell he intended to Fly the Ship without this and how Shaw would survive the journey.... Never mind Shaws Questions...

Did they just find LV-223 and we saw they never had many Answers for what was going on, it was only Davids deciphering of Clues that he had some idea of what was going on.... until they find that Last Surviving Engineer (we have to assume) on LV-223, David Talked to him and he got some Answers back.... the cut of the movie we never got so much and basically one pissed off Engineer... so after he dies... he tells David they are not from LV-223 this place is not their homeworld but they are from a place that David says we may interpret as Paradise.

With that Shaw wants to go there....  so regardless of if Shaw dies or David leaves her behind...

Are we to then only have ever came across ONE LAST Engineer who never gave us mush answers... and now as David arrives at the Engineers Homeworld... we find that indeed they are all dead or not there....  So the Engineer in Prometheus that was in Cryo-Sleep is the Last and Only Engineer Left?

Are they going that route? I hope not.... but they could do soo...  but surely they would have clues left, maybe recordings or logs that David can decipher and relay that information to the Covenant Crew... as for sure they are going to want to know how the Hell David ended up on this World when Prometheus was destroyed (thats if Covenant knows about Prometheus) well we know David does not get there on a Earth Ship and so the Covenant crew will want to know how he got there and maybe even see the Juggernaught and surely they would ask what is that and why has he taken it to that World (Paradise).

David could explain it all, and maybe while he is on Paradise and looks over the Destruction and what ever remains of Engineers Culture, he could maybe get Answers this way and relay it to the crew of the Covenant and Audience... Maybe we will see Hologram Ghost Scenes again?

But even if all Engineers are dead, it would be a waste to  not have Flash Back Scenes like the Sacrifical one, as a way of showing to us visually what David is explaining as far as what he has found out that happened.

As far as Daniels.... well i have not been super impressed by Waterston but its not just Actors Credentials that matter but the Director and having a Good Script and Character Designs..

She will play a key role and it seems bigger one than Shaw had in the first movie, even being more of a New Ripley....  but as far as what kind of a Woman she is... well this is a Colony Ship and not a Military or Scientific one and so i dont expect much skills for her, but basic leadership and survival ones... then again look at Ripley in Alien.... so yes she could evolve..

But how would she survive to a David with bad intentions? Maybe because of David with Good intentions as Fassbender is playing two roles..... and how does she survive the Xenos and Engineers...

Maybe this is where COVENANT plays in?  Maybe at some point we come across a Engineer or being related who somehow saves Daniels.. and they make some kind of Pact... i.e  do not tell your Kind about this place...  this place is not intended for your kind.. do never return and if she does not return then the Engineer or who ever, makes a Pact that they would leave Mankind to its own devices.... but should Daniels and crew break this Pact then the Engineer etc would have no choice but to carry out a destruction of Mankind.

Great info BigDave!

I think Ridely/Fox realised they could go forward in time to tell the origin story. They didn't need to go backwards.    It's not like the Xeno Death star was destroyed, Darth Xeno/evil empire defeated and moviegoers wanted to know the backstory of Darth Xeno or Ripley's childhood.

I think you can tell the origins of the Xenomorph from a future view(archaeology), Find a cave on LV-987, find large laboratory for making goo/xeno, put 2 and 2 together. Huge fight. laboratory destroyed. the End.

Big Dave:

Exactly, they shouldn’t assume that people have the time to do that or are even interested in doing that except for the geeks. ;) I have been trying so that helped a lot. What were they thinking? I know that we have discussed about Lindelof and ambiguity and how Fox interfered but really

Yes a road in the middle or what ever to call it would be good. Not to obvious and not too difficult the question is how you find that balance. They should really have serious discussions about this before they go to work. If they don’t talk about it then there will be a bigger risk that it would be too obvious or maybe too difficult… again.

If they are more vague with the Engineers then might there not be a risk that people don’t understand them either? Doing a mistake once is OK but doing the same mistake twice when they know how many reacted would not be a smart thing to do. I am not sure if that is a very good idea but I agree about the Xeno.

If Covenant has a new plot it might be for the better if they have considered that many people didn’t understood Prometheus. Hopefully David will find some Engineers because that is what they were going with the story first, it would be weird if they change that so there will be no Engineers in P2.

So David gets his head back but I am not really interested in seeing how because that might not be a huge part of the story at least I feel that way. He is in the movie and he has a big part then why should it be important to see how he got his head back? Maybe there would be some interesting scenes but the question is if those scenes are very important. Couldn’t they just show that Shaw survives the journey and then people could try to figure out how themselves but then maybe some of it would need an explanation. Some people might care about Shaw’s questions (why did they create us, and so on) but I am more interested in seeing other aspects of the Engineers (their world, different monsters, Engineers as creators of life but being like mean life forms to human beings).

The Engineers should not be all gone, that would be disappointing. People survive earth quakes even though many die so what ever disaster that happened on Paradise there should be some Engineers left to continue the story about. David could give some answers to why they ended up on Paradise but he wouldn’t have to explain everything that is how I look at it. Some holograms and flash backs could work, maybe but they would need to do that better compared to how they did it with the running Engineers in Prometheus. If you just watched the hologram it made no sense, you had to put it in context, this is another thing that people might found confusing about the movie. To me it was obvious that they ran from some monster but how was that created and how did it turn on them? That was never answered very well except for maybe vague clues.

I haven’t seen Waterston in any movie before but sure she got to be better than Shaw. They can make a good character of Daniels and it would be weird if they mess up two main characters in a row, no? The pact seems interesting but that is depending on if the Engineers can compromise.

@MonsterZero

We dont really really know what Ridley meant by comming in from the back end...  i have a assumption however and its not going to be as you said "I think Ridely/Fox realised they could go forward in time to tell the origin story. They didn't need to go backwards.    It's not like the Xeno Death star was destroyed, Darth Xeno/evil empire defeated and moviegoers wanted to know the backstory of Darth Xeno or Ripley's childhood"

I think they will be giving us Flashbacks...  i think there is a lot of supporting Evidence unless they are going for a Total U-Turn and will discard everything Prometheus was trying to show us apart from David ends up getting to Paradise with a Cargo of Black Goo....  then the sequel was pointing towards Shaw and David getting to Paradise and finding some Biengs related to the Engineers if not Engineers themselves and somewhat getting some Answers... Ridley had also brought up over and over Paradise Lost, Fallen Angels... God/Devil and even how there could be someone at the Top of that Chain who not only is above the Engineers but also has a affect on How Worlds exist that have the right Characteristics so that Life can be seeded on them.

If we take the above, and how Ridley had said before the Space Jockey and Derelict had been on LV-426 for thousands of years.... and then maybe consider Micheal Biehns comment about how Alien: Covenant is set Thousands of years prior to Aliens...

There is no way really these can be addressed if we are to just find David on Paradise with no Trace of the Engineers or Shaw and only the Xenomorph or related Organism.....  Maybe this would allow the Fanboys to be pleased as we find out how the Xeno came to be... but it would be a bit odd if they have its creation at a date 18 years prior to Alien..... and have us believe the Derelict landed on LV-426 after the events of Covenant..... never mind while it may please Fanboys who just want to see Xenos, and maybe having Xenos would make more Sales and Money as more of the Audience would get the movies connection to Alien...

But what about those who was interested in Prometheus and the many unanswered questions that have more to do with the Engineers.... surely they cant just give us a Franchise that will give us a New Lead Character in Daniels and have another  2 movies to cover her and Xeno Shenanigans that span another 18 years until Alien and failing to cover the Engineers or what became of Shaw?

So i would think the movie would have More than One Plot..... as far as Timeline of events... Prometheus had One Main Plot, that was Prometheus Mission to LV-223 and what they find and the Aftermath.... but it also opened with a Flash Back Sacrificial Scene set Millions or years ago... or just showing how Engineers Seed life on Worlds... and then a Scene of Holloway and Shaw finding the Star Maps a few years prior to Prometheus.

I would expect Alien: Covenant may have to touch upon some Scenes set at a earlier point in time, there is a lot of ground that has to be covered by the Franchise... not including what ever Plot that Covenant unfolds and the Aftermath. 

Lets take a look at these and i will start with the ones maybe Covenant will answer, well is intended to answer, and how these are going to be hard unless the movie has Flash Back Scenes, or a lot of Clues or records that David and the crew of Covenant find... that they can relay to the Audience to explain the below.....

Pretty much how Shaws, and Janeks comments about LV-223 being a Outbreak, and how this place was used as a Bio-Weapons Laboratory but they got careless something got spilled or some other mishap that lead to dire consequences.... most of this information we never saw many actual clues or actually what happened... only the Ghost Engineer Scene and the rest was from other clues and Shaw and Janek commenting about what they THINK happened, that was intended to tell US what Most likely did HAPPEN.

So lets cover things starting with what looks likely to be covered, and then others that i feel has to be covered and then see how really any of these can be covered unless we have Flash Back Scenes... or Mild clues as above in the Shaw and Janek diaglog in Prometheus.

*The Xenomorph Origins, or the Origins of the Biology that leads to them.

*Who created the above and why?  (Engineers).

*If they arrive at Paradise (Engineers Homeworld) and its a scene of Devastation then do we get any clues or answers to Why, and what became of the Engineers on Paradise?

*How are they going to connect and show us the event that led to the Space Jockey on LV-426 and when did this happen or when does it happen?

=========This seem above have to be covered or so it seems=======

*Do we get any more answers or clues as to why LV-223 was used and was it always used as a place to create, experiment and store Bio-Weapons?

*Do we find out the status of the Engineers Culture and Empire within the Galaxy, are they all gone? If so why?

*What is the whole Agenda of the Engineers and is there anyother Race or beings above them in the Hierarchy?

*Do we find out any reasons for why the Engineers seeded life on Earth and had connections with Ancient Mankind?

*Do we find out why they never came back?

*Do we find out in more detail what really happened on LV-223 thousands of years ago?

*The company in Alien, seems to know a little bit more about the LV-426 Signal and what may be there than the Crew of the Nostramo did... Special Order 937, how much did they really know?

======Below attains to Questions and Plot Holes from Prometheus======

*Do we find out what becomes of LV-223 from after the year 2094 and at least 2122 never mind by the time of Aliens?

*Do we find out what happened to Shaw?

*Do we find out how David managed to be back together in one peice?

So you see i think they way the Franchise was set up, these all should be answered and its how can these be answered with No Flash Back or Hologram Scenes, or not actual Engineers alive within the Timeline of Prior to 2100 and after!

There are other Questions that are not relevent really, but ones that could be answered but dont need to be... such as.

*What becomes of the Hamerpedes and Deacon from Prometheus?

*What is in those other Temple Mounds on LV-223 and what about the Cargo of the many more Juggernaught Ships?

*What other Races have the Engineers created and Worlds and for what purpose?

@Thoughts_Dreams

I agree with pretty much all that you had said...

If we look at Prometheus it had a few problems in General and i am not going to go on about the Characters and Plot Devices with them that could have been done better.... while these things make for a better movie... they have NO EFFECT on the Plot... but i hope they learn from Prometheus and have a better Script and Character use.

But apart from the Script as far as Characters and use of them... here are main problems that bogged down Prometheus.....

*Alien Prequel that well... general audience may not have known it was, and watching it would not have given them clues that it was... and even those who knew it was supposed to be set before Alien had a hard time to figure out what connection... apart from Weyland Company and a Android the rest they maybe never understood.

*No real Xenomorphs, not that general Puplic and even some fans who kinda knew it was a Alien Universe Movie....

*No Origins about how the Xeno came to be and why the Space Jockey had those Eggs and what happened to him..... although the movie attempted to show us the Space Jockey was a race of Giant Humanoids who create life and also very horrid Bio-Weapons connected in some what to the Xeno.

*The movie explored some interesting themes and ideas, and tried to make some connections but what the movie did was give us to many vague Questions and ambiguity and leaving a lot of Questions that need Answers.

*The movie seemed to at its core have a Plot that attempted to loosely answer Questions and set up a sequel that could maybe Answer these.... the movie had a idea and a Plot from A-Z but during Post Production the movie got Cut and Edited in a Way that A-Z was not A-Z sometimes a G would be before a E and a D after a T and missing a S, P and L for example. So it become a bit incoherent even more so...

The next movie and movies have to be careful not to fall into the same Trap of Problems as above that affected Prometheus..... by resolving the Questions somewhat from Prometheus and making sure the next movie or movies dont suffer from the same flaws... will in the End Iron out the Flaws of Prometheus and eventually make that movie and its Mystreys and Alien (1979) Mystery all make sense and FIT IN....

@BigDave. Has Ridley said what planet is in the opening of Prometheus? Is it Earth, a million/billions of years ago? LV-223? Or just showing what the Engineers do on every planet they encounter? If it's Earth, then they seeded Earth? ? could it be Paradise?

And I expect the Crew of the Covenant to find a God machine.

I was a bit busy :) I hope that this will help us to decipher the whole story! I will make a few more pictures if I find something still hidden.

So here we are...
I will also try to analyse all of pictures in detail very soon :)
I hope there is something interesting on pictures that was not mentioned by now...

Sorry for tipfelers on images... See how depictions are hierarchically presented from top to bottom (strange creature on top, Satan, Xeno, Christ and angel... we have humans and facehuggers also)!

There are even many more pictures within pictures... when you put altar you can see formed human head (similar to that in chamber), and when you look Christ depiction differently there is even some kind of animal head (with ears and hair) visible (wolf)...

@Thoughts_Dreams

The Movie was set up to show is that it was Earth.... but it was never mentioned to be so, but yes the Scene was Shot not far from where Shaw and Holloway discovered the Cave Painting... so it was Earth... but doh... the movie is shot on Earth so you could say LV-233 was Earth lol...

But Ridley said that its DOES NOT have to be Earth, it could be any place in the Galaxy and all that Scene was meant to show was that the Engineers Seed Life on Worlds, which could mean many Worlds and while they can create Life in other ways... the Sacrificial Scene was just the Way they Choose to do so..

"And I expect the Crew of the Covenant to find a God machine."

Interesting and yes its one think i pondered about and Actually the idea i was running with when i was working on a Prometheus 2 draft that i abandoned....

I made a post ages ago about God within context of the Franchise and is God just Gods and same as Engineers, or another Race above them but different like Engineers are different to us... is God some other Being rather than a group... and could they be Humanoid or Non-Humanoid... could they be a Magical Energy or Entity... or even a Machine?

Latter Ridley did mention that David and Shaw are meeting beings, and David is bringing Hell with him and what happens if the Goo is used on God? or a Machine... which could mean does he use it on himself? or is God a Machine?

I think a very Giger inspired Machine could work.... a lot of HR Gigers work fits in with this, and his idea for the Derelict and how the Eggs came to be pointed at some Bio-Mechanical Machinery creates the Eggs...

So yes that could work.... is this what we shall see... we just dont know but latest comments over the last year seems to point to that not being the Case... God is not a Machine... but that does not mean that a Machine can not be what God uses to create Life or Engineers etc.

Oh dear oh dear Enoch333 ;)

What have you gone and done now...... ok well i think these have been covered in different Topics but save us finding them and while this Topic is about leaks i was given that seemed to add up but now maybe not since the U-Turn there could be no way to prove if these where True unless the next few movies include what was said... or unless a Draft from the Paglen/Green version comes to light for us to read.

So why not discus the connections you made.... where the Hell to Start lol

First... whats not been done before... SATAN in the Imagine.... first we have to remember this Mural is ambigious its about as ambigious as looking at clouds and so people will see what ever they want to see and so each person will find things that others wont... only HR Giger knows the real deal here and if there are hidden things...  The things that do stand out that can not be debated are  Deacon/Xeno type Creature in Sacrificial Cruciform Pose, Two Face Hugged Humanoids with Two Different Face Hugers (other 2 unused 1979 Face Huger Concepts)  the other paterns and shapes can be anything... but we see Two Derformed Humanoids that seem to not be developed like the fail Clones in Alien Resurection.

So i will start on you Satan... and i never looked at it like that and yes indeed it can look like that in the way you have designed it.... so what we have is a Horned Demon Looking Face with Two Horns comming from the Jaw too and i have seen depictions of the Devil in a similar way...  and we have the Deacon Mural well Xeno type creature comming from the are of this Devils Nose/Mouth.... how and why?  Assuming your onto something?

Well if we look at Zeus, and the Birth of Athena  she was born fully formed and Armoured frmo out of his Head... She was Zeus' favourite child and allowed to use his Thunderbolts.... she is the embodyment of Arts, Literature, Intelligence, and Reason these are things that Prometheus had given onto Man also.... but what she really Stood for was PURITY.... which is what Ash admired the Xenomorph for..

Can we say that Athena is connected to the Deacon? And that the image shows the Deacon being Born from God/Devils Mouth?  Who knows.

The Angelic Creature in the same image you highlighted..... its hard to make out but i can see like a Buterfly or a Wasp myself... as i said its like looking at a cloud.... but when i look at the what you call hands part then yes i kind of can see as if something is holding what looks like  a Egg to me... which the one Fresco depicts.... I cant really comment on the Mural Winged Creature as well ita ambigious and could be nothing or something else.. as is the Cloud Like Abiguity of the Mural.

I again agree with you, I only wanted to share with you my observations...
And what about the creature on the top? :)

That isnt too ambiguous... :)

No i will tackle the Bottom Image, and again its all interpretation of a Ambigious Mural with Cloud like Forms... And so i cant clearly make out Christ etc... so i will pass on this one.. no disrespect.

But there is a theme a like Lader of something going on, but what?  We do see the Face Huggers and Adult Xeno/Deacon Creature... maybe we need to compare it to the Alien Mural that was never used..

Again some parts are very Ambigious can we make a connection?

The shape around the outside is like the Derelict and maybe we can connect this to the outer frame of the Door/Arch way to the Prometheus Mural.... in the Alien Mural its maybe hinted that the Derelict Type object is made from a Xeno, it shares the same DNA and the Egg is somehow created by this Object.... a idea that Giger actually had as his idea was the Egg Silo that became Cargo Hold had like Pregnant looking Bio-Mechanical Bellies that actually Gave Birth to the Eggs.

The rest of the Alien Mural shows us Egg containing Face Huger next down the lader of events, the same area in the Prometheus Mural has a shape that can be interpreted in many ways, it can be some kind of Egg, or some kind of Crown.. like the Upper Carapace of a Queen Xeno? But again its so ambigious, but does it lead to the Deacon which is next on that Lader?

Who knows... as the area the Deaon is at in the Mural is where the opening of a Egg by a Space Suited Being (similar to Space Jockey) and allowing another of its kind to be Face Hugged in some Ritual Sacrifice... so the only really link i could make between both is A SACRIFICE.... the Deacon is in a Sacrifical pose... 

The 3rd part/layer of the Alien Mural is the Chest Buster Scene....  The same area in the Prometheus one is very vague and hard to work out, its where you saw the Winged Angelic Creature... but to either side of it is the Face Hugger Scenes..

Maybe the Murals are in a different Order....  as the 3rd layer in the Prometheus could depict the 2nd layer in the Alien and so the 3rd layer in Alien (Chest Buster) could match the Deacon the 2nd layer in Prometheus.... so the Deacon is the result of those Face Hugers?

Well there are Two different kinds... that are Gigers unused concepts..

Note same Balde Headed Humanoid and the Suit looks a lot like the Engineers Presure Suits and so the Answers have been their all along in the unused Concepts.....

It could be the Engineers had created various Face Hugers, or they came across something and they as Genetic Engineers, was interested in something they never created and so they then experimented on this to create various kinds of Face Huger.... Spaights draft there was 8 different kinds of Cargo related to the Xeno DNA.

But what can this mean.... does the Prometheus Mural show us the Deacon being something that they re-engineered to create the various Face Huger and Eventually the Xeno?  Or does it show that something led to the various types of Face Huger in the Persuit for finding something Perfect and that was the Deacon in the Mural a Project of Evolution...?

Its all so Ambigious we cant really be sure... but there is a connection....

My interpretation was the Deacon was something they came across either as a result of a Face Huger, or result of re-engineer Face Hugers until they hit the Jackpot with a Final Form they was happy with PERFECTION... The Mural Deacon... either way the Engineers on LV-223 had regarded this as Perfection.... they saw that its DNA was more Pure and Evolved and more Perfection than Engineers DNA.

And this they worshiped it for its Purity and Perfect Form, the Ultimate Evolution maybe attained from something they DID NOT CREATE.... maybe it gave the Engineers a way to Give Birth to New Life... if they can not breed like we can....

Regardless.... i think they used the Goo at the start of the Movie to Sacrifice these created Deacons DNA and collected the broken down Material into those Urns... as opposed to the Engineer at the start and his broken down Material just fell into the Water Fall etc...

Spaights draft the Engineer took Sacrificial Cruciform pose, before he fell into the Waterfall....  so the Deacon pose could mean it too was Sacrificed to Produce DNA Material that can be used to Evolve Life... as this Deacons DNA is seen by them as more Perfect than Engineers... (Sometimes to create one must first destroy).

If we look at Spaights Nano Scarabs which replace the Black Goo, and apply how we see it work in Spaights draft... and apply it to the Black Goo then you see we have a Goo/Scarabs that devour/break down a Sacrifice and then store and carry its DNA, that it then passes onto a Host to create a Hybrid that passes on the Sacrifices DNA and Evolves the best traits of the Host.

The Original Shot of the Altar had the Sacrifical Bowl and not a Green Crystal which could confirm such a Theory as above.

LOL Enoch333, sorry if i came across as trying to discredit your findings... im actually interested in trying to make connections and with Ancient Myths and you have some great ideas... just some of the images are so vague that its open to massive interpretation and its why i am trying to work on those that are less Ambigious... not saying your wrong at all ;)

"And what about the creature on the top? :)"

Bare with me... i am now about to try and answer that one lol

Yep maybe its just Art and has no real meaning.. i mean the whole peice could just be a Easter Egg Fest and not real intended as Clues, or even what we can use as Clues... but its nice to speculate and try and connect things..

The Face at the top of the Arch is interesting and you dont see it really in the movie, but you dont see much and thats the Problem, the Frescos you never saw in Full the Egg one especially the other was breaking down...

The Face well its interesting... what can it be?  Its very Giger inspired... but its unlike anything of his works really.. to a degree it has things comming off it to the side and so it kind of fits this peice only the centre face is not Humanoid..

The actual Face in the Prometheus Mural Archway, is very odd but the best thing i can come close to is a Space Jockey Helmet with its Hose/Snorkle Peice removed..

If you watch where they have the Head in the Lab, and David has to open it up to remove the Helmet... when he does so he lifts up the Snorkle part now image if this snapped off and he replaced the helmet from the front view i think we would get the closest thing to the Face at the top of the Arch in the Mural...

Is that a connection.. is that Face connected to the Bio-Mechanical Technology of the Engineers, is it to represent the the Space Jockey Helmet... is it a sign that beyond this Room (Which Holoway says its another door to another Tomb) then does it signal that the Engineers may or must remove their Helmets? or that they must put them on?  Or neither.

Its it some creature or Bio-Mechanical being that the Space Jockey suits was borrowed or stolen off?  We cant be sure but it looks connected....

But you connect it to the Fresco...

Maybe it can? But to me it looks a bit different and this image is a bit vague... some speculate this is what the Space Jockey came from... maybe its what the Engineers gained their Bio-Tech From..? it has a chance!

The head is bizare its hard to work out, but i dont see a Space Jockey Snorkle and the Eyes are hard to make out, its hard to see what and where each feature is... there are two areas that could be Eyes, or it could have no eyes... is hard to tell.

Whats interesting is where the mouth would be... i dont see Space Jockey Trunk, or a Xeno Mouth..... what i see is like Predator outer Mandibles on its Jaws.... a set of 4 such things...

But it could be a Beak and whats interesting is Face Huger D2 as you can see in the previous post has a like Beak but also a peice of skin or fold over the Beak... you can maybe see a connection with its Head and the Creature in the Mural, Infact the most likely suspect for Eyes on the Fresco Creature do look similar to Face Huger D2 yes only Shut.... maybe or maybe not its connected or inspired by.

I will also take you to Dan O'Bannons idea of the Star Beast before they used Gigers work based of his Necromonicon 4

To me this Concept is what looks the most like the Fresco Creature...

Also the Star Beast Mural Room.... Notice the Sacrifical Beast, it looks like it has a Ants head, well Jaws... but this could just as easy be Beak... or even a Mouth parts  like the above O'Bannon Star Beast idea..

Note the creatures Arms that are like sickle like, well maybe... if you look at the creature getting Chest Busted by (yep Shaws Trilobite) notice its Arms and Jaws.... then look at O'Bannons Star Beast and its what apear to be Arms.... similar?  You bet.

However the Prometheus Fresco does not had such Hands... its Hands are the same as the Xenomorphs to a degree....

Note the Egg Fresco too

While this could be a Xenomorph holding a Egg, the Egg looks Traditional... but the creature holding it could be the same in the Fresco... the Hands are similar and is its just coinsidence that both Frescos apear side by side...

To me this shows that this creature is connected to the Xeno DNA.... is it from the Xeno, or is this the Origin of the Xeno... and the Engineers did not create it.... they came across it, or it was another creation that they came across and re-engineered that led to the Xeno.... note Spaights draft sugests many different types of Xeno and Ridley came out and said the Derelict had different Cargo Holds with different kinds of Bio-Weapon.

This Creature is the Enigma the Missing Link..... or so i thought from my reading of all the clues...

"sorry if i came across as trying to discredit your findings..."

That why I posted them in the first place :) I very much enjoy exchanging speculations and
ideas... so discrediting them is just another part of smart dialogue... :)

Yes everything is connected and at the same time it isnt... (or we cant figure it out... there are really so much things and elements in Prometheus that it is almost impossible to know what path will they choose to follow) I personaly think that creature from the top is somehow connected to the creature on the mural with Engineer... maybe its Ridleys God!? Who knows...

There are Snorkles too on the relief/mural... ;)
I can see them clearly... There is even intersection of Engineers helmet...

P.S. I badly highlighted Christ... but there is
certainly man face there (maybe it isnt Christ)!!!!

What do you think about this one :) :) :)

Can you see what is on the altar...? :) :)

So lets talk about the Fresco....

Very Sistine Chapel as far as God and Adam... which makes the Engineer God, looking down on Adam.... i.e Creator and Creation! Yeah can buy that the Engineers do create Life, and they are implied in having a hand in the creation of the Xeno...   The Creatures pose is very submissive and fetal.... Master and Slave/Servent?

Then the Adam and God Fresco is not the same pose... maybe it does not have to be Spot on?

Lets Forget about God and the Bible.... the movie is called Prometheus... how can that connect... remember Prometheus Punishment... having his Liver Eaten by a Eagle over and over.. well the Engineer in the Fresco has what some say looks like a Scar.. like a C-Section... has he been Eaten and Stiched up? Or Chest Busted and Stitched up? Or used to procreate something over and over and C-Sectioned like Shaw was but OVER and OVER...  Why? Maybe because the Engineers in this Scene has something special about his DNA, that he has to be used as a Host...

Can we assume if a Face Huger Embryo Grows and its Surgically Removed, like a Human C-Section that the patient suffers long Term Problems and can no longer carry a emryo/child?

Bare this in mind, and Shaws C-Section, and how she Shunned her Child, it was unwanted because it was Forced upon her and its not a Traditional Fetus/Child....

The Engineers Pose and Face does not look like Gods in the God and Adam, it looks like it is pushing away the creature... the creatue is in a Fetal Pose.... it is being Shuned away and not looked down upon in a pleased manner like God and Adam Fresco.... and we have the C-Section Scar.....

Lets look at Prometheus Myth.... he was tied to a rock and a Eagle Ate his Liver, over and over....

Lets look at the Prometheus Titan Punishment Myth Fresco..

This is the Most Famous Portrate of this Punishment.... now look at it, does it not resemble the Prometheus Movie Fresco more than the God and Adam one?

Remember Prometheus movies theme, is about the creation of Mankind, now Prometheus was the one who is responsible for creation of Man, and Teaching Mankind all it knows... Arts, how to build and make weapons, buildings (KNOWLEDGE)... and even stealing Fire from the Gods.... (Forbiden Knowledge) for this he was Punished...

Satan is Punished for persauding Adam and Eve to Eat fom the Forbiden Fruit and thus gained Knowledge..... he was thrown out of Paradise...  and Paradise Lost Poem which Ridley says has Themes that Prometheus was borrowing from covers the Rebelion of Satan, the Punishment for going against God and giving Mankind Freedom of Will in the knowledge of Good and Evil, which is only for God , a gift he granted Luficfer Gods Favoured and Chosen Angel who rebelled against God... as Prometheus did with not only Cronus but then Zeus.

Some depict Satan as actually the savour of Mankind, the one who granted us free will and opened our eyes from Gods Tyrany.... this is what Paradise Lost shows... it portrays him as a Hero at times... Prometheus seen likewise yet he was seen as a Nemisis and Evil to Gods plans and its via Prometheus Actions that Pandoras Box was created to Punish Mankind.

so if we consider the Prometheus Fresco Creature now as the EAGLE.. The Punishment... maybe it makes sense....

Maybe he was used as a Host over and over, but there came a time when he was freed.. or his followers, saved him... and via the Organisms that was given rise from him (C-Sections) or even by the Eagle Creature that was his Punishment..

He wanted revenge... and so he Prometheus then (or another Faction of Engineers) reverse Engineered the Eagle/Fresco creature to create Evil Biology and one of those creations was the Xeno....  and they then used this upo God and his Kingdom in revenge for Punishment to the Prometheean Engineer so Gods Punishment Tool, was turned upon him..

This or similar is what i thought was going on, i had 4 theories that are connected, and Half of those Stem from the above idea that i have put down.

"Can you see what is on the altar...? :) :)"

Yep the Urn...... seen this before... and its little changes that make the movie make no sense, if you see my reply to some of the other topics recently.

Having a Urn, or the Sacrificial Bowl, would make for a more easier connection..

Indeed my theory is that the Goo is re-weaponized from a Organism related to the Xeno...

If the Sacrifical Engineer stood in a large VAT, or Chamber with a hole in the floor connected to some plumming work that would carry drained fluid and eventually be placed with Jars at the Bottom.

If the Engineer Sacrificed himself the same way, but his broken down Material (maybe needs Water to help, so maybe he is in large Show like Cubical?) this material instead of falling into the Water Fall.... if its is collected into Jars....

What happens if these Jars are emptied into a Lake or the Water Fall? 

Logic would say the same result.... as Prometheus....

And so if we take this idea, it makes sense... and its exactly what Spaights Draft shows...

I have many theories....  that are similar but as the clues are so Ambigious its hard to reach ONE SIZE  FITS ALL ... Definitate  Answer..... but most of my theories are all similar just each has a slightly differet Arc on each other.

The Nutshell is some Engineers lead by a Engineer (Satan/Prometheus) use something they should not have done in a way the other Engineers or Higher Gods never intended... Created Mankind without Gods Permision?  Or they indeed Evolved Life or interfered in a way against God/The Hierarchy plans....

This Satan/Prometheus or representing Faction... were Punished by the Hierarchy with some Evil Bio-Weapon Creature......  But this use of such a creature became a Calamity to these Gods, or maybe even the Rebelious Faction that was targeted by this Punishment Bio-Weapon... Re-engineered and used it against the Hierarchy laying waste to Paradise.

The remaining Engineers, found the result of some of the re-weaponizing of this Creature produced something of Perfection.... 

The Engineers were created in the image of a Hierarchy , their (Engineers) DNA used to seed worlds, and give rise to Mankind... in their image.....   The Faction of Engineers are now Free, as their Father is Dead (Davids comment does everyone not want their Parents Dead) Just as David is now Free.... The Engineers on LV-223 are now free of the Tyrany of the Hierarchy.

They maybe then had Mankind Worship them as Gods, as the Hierarchy  above the Engineers is gone... then the Engineers are now King.. (a King has his Reign and then he dies)....  maybe Mankind proved to be rebelious to the Engineers as they was to their Creators/Hierarchy  

As these Engineers were created in the image of their Creator... but following the War and Punishment on them, the Engineers came across a creation at the hands of Re-Weaponizing the Punishment upon them to create the Deacon in the Mural.

The Engineers Father/Creators are gone.... maybe they feel unhappy at how the Engineers are reminded of their creators because they are in the same image?  But now after the Failed Punishment upon them... they have created a offspring... the Deacon and the Engineers see this creatures DNA, as being superior to their own and also their creators..

The Deacon DNA in that Mural is Perfection..... and so now these Engineers wish to use this Deacons DNA, as a way to Evolve Mankind... as the Deacons DNA is better Evolutionary DNA to create Life than the Engineers.

But in doing so, they also befell to the Punishment they wish to use upon their wayward and rebelious creations... just as their creators fell Calamity to the Punishment intended for the wayward rebelious Engineers.

This forms the basis for my Prometheus theory... as a broad stokes....

so yeah those last few post are the broad stokes to my interpretation on what is going on etc...

I feel maybe the Space Jockey could be the Punishment sent down to those Engineers a few hundred years before the Outbreak and re-weaponizing of the Eggs...

But then on the Flip side.... the Derelict could have been leaving LV-233 either few hundred years before... or after... as i have a few theories that connect but each differ slightly.

Last post for today... I will write some ideas tomorrow...

What DO you think about THIS?

I was going to get round to making a few Topics.....  

Ultimate Fresco and Mural Topic.... which i covered the bare bones above..

Ultimate Goo Topic....

The Space Jockey Story and how it connects to LV-223

And a Topic about the  Connection to LV-223, Xeno, Prometheus/Satan Punishment and Rebelion and Engineer Agenda as far as creation of Man, Fall of Man and Engineers... i,e Paradise Lost theme... which i have again covered loosely above...

Maybe all of these could be done in a Ultimate Theory on Prometheus... but i put such a thing on hold as most stuff i have covered here before and i put it on hold with the U-Turn that is Covenant..