So, I was reading the novelization of the original Alien. Alan Dean Foster starts off by describing everyone's dreams while they're in hypersleep.
He also mentions that, while none of the crew of the Nostromo would qualify, there exist some people called "prodreamers" who have very interesting dreams that can be recorded and watched by others. Remember, we catch a glimpse of this dream-viewing technology in Prometheus, when David spies on Dr. Shaw's dream (he uses the same technology for two way communication with Weyland while Weyland is in hypersleep).
Well, Foster does describe Ash's dreams, confirming that (unlike Walter but quite like David) Ash, does in fact dream.
Foster goes on to say: "If asked, he could have told you why he could never become a prodreamer..."
(Why though? Is it because...NO ONE UNDERSTANDS THE LONELY PERFECTION OF HIS DREAMS!?)
"...None ever thought to ask, despite the fact that the science officer clearly found prodreaming more fascinating than any of them."
David is also fascinated by spying on people's dreams!
Now, there is a theory floating around out there, that Ash is David, (that David downloads his consciousness into Ash at some point). This theory was once described beautifully by MonsterZero in fact.
Anyhow, given the glimpse of the dream viewing technology and David talking about his dreams, I just can't help but wonder if Scott is planning on looping back around to this as part of this whole David is Ash possibility.
What do you guys think?? :D
Well i know that ADF purposely put things in the A:C novel that are a nod to the original Alien novel.
So with this in mind it would make perfect sense that this theme goes deeper into the franchise and there could be subtle hints going forward into the last prequel and beyond.
Since RS seems very AI focused it may also make sense that the AI before his death manages to transfer himself to stay in his warped game.
Also it could tie into WY and their knowledge. Assuming David is Ash (or MU TH UR even) then that gives them their drive for more knowledge. He may even after Ash, in a sequel ended up as MU TH UR or on WY either as himself or under cover.
So there is loads they could explore if Ash turns out to be David. Very plausible i think
Take This.... This is the blood of our lord
I believe Ash could be David as well considering his mannerisms and the way he speaks.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."
I am not sure.. maybe who knows..
I do think RS is now every interested in the whole AI angle.. i think it may even be a KEY theme he is exploring, RS finds it very interesting we find out that David created the Xenomorph, RS feels this is a more terrible idea than the Engineers doing it.
To a degree he is correct, Prometheus started to explore the themes of Creation and Creator creates and their creation then shows signs of Rebellion and seeing themselves as not in-superior to their creator of even asking why should they serve their creators... and so a Rebellion happens...
It touches upon the Son wishing to Oust the Father, the Prince wishing to overthrow the King etc...
And the Hubris that creation involves, in hindsight the Engineers creation of Mankind leads to their undoing, first (well maybe first) in the attempt to create the Bio-Weapon to use on us, that back fires... and kills most on LV-223 off
Mankind are thus saved, and they then create David who in a Hubris to the Engineers end up being able to use Engineers Technology and learn their ways and language and leads to those on Planet 4 being destroyed...
Had the Engineers not created Mankind, we would not have created David 8 and so they would not have needed to make that Weapon on LV-223 and they would never had seen David get his hands on that Weapon to use on Planet 4
The Engineers intended a Weapon to Destroy is that they could not contain or control and could be infected by..
Failing to destroy us leads to us creating David who is able to use the Engineers Weapon and attempt to Perfect it and lead to destruction on one of the Engineers World... David has managed to Master what the Engineers could not due to the risks and dangers.
But Mankind is not off the Hook, because their own Creation now intends to use the Weapon that Mankinds Creators had intended to use on Mankind... against Mankind itself.
Or so it would seem... so indeed the AI aspect is interesting.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will now add and explore that yes.... they could be going for a Bigger Picture with the AI, and maybe the AI is playing a Bigger Role behind the Scenes while Mankind is unaware.
Much like the movie the Matrix... where Mankind go about their daily lives not aware they are in a simulation and are actually be used by Machines they created that over threw and now enslaves Mankind. And so indeed RS could be going a route where AI is running things yet Mankind does not know.
Ash seemed to be very impressed with the Xenomorph he saw it as Perfect... well the Prequels with David and how he may now have created it, could well indeed now give us more back ground to why ASH admires the Xenomorph so much.
He like David is a creation of Mankind, maybe he has some resentment towards Mankind too? But if he knows that a Android Forerunner to his Model actually created the Xenomorph this would indeed give Ash something to be very proud of and admire.
We have to look at Davids code he gave to MUTHUR and wonder... did David make a Program when he arrived on the ship and the Code was to access it, or did MUTHER already have some Protocol built in that Davids code activated?
Another thing to consider is a theory of mine, where i feel the clues seem to show that David in AC is not the David from the Prologue... not as in the same Body... this was the first Time David was called David as he chose the Name Himself.
Looking at the Weyland Viral Marketing for Prometheus the first David Model was 2025, and so we have to assume this is where the Prologue in AC was set.
We have had 7 David Models after David 1, the Marketing for Prometheus showed us David 8 and he looks the same as the David in Prometheus.. so..
*David 8 Models are Models after the latest Craze (Die hair Blonde) that Weylands Original David had at the time.. thus David in Prometheus is the Original David and the David 8s are made in the likeness of David at around this time.
*David in Prometheus is a David 8 and is not the same David at all in the Prologue.
*The Prologue did not happen in 2025 and its not the first David.
OR... as i think, Each David Model Prototype is Weylands personal David and each New Model, Weyland uploads the Memories and Experiences of the previous personal David Prototype to the next one... So David 1P had his Soul if you would uploaded to David 2P, then David 3P and so on and so on.
This in effect makes David Immortal, and also it kind of gives him a SOUL which Fassbender did ponder in a Interview... and when we look out our Soul, what gives us a Soul, is it our Spirit? Does our Spirit inhabit our Body and this stores out Personality, Emotions and Experiences? Or are these just imprinted and programed into our Brain?
If we suffer a head injury or some diseases, we can loose our Memory... if someone completely loses everything so they are in their Body and have say 35 years of Memories but then their Brain is completely wiped Blank... so they have to learn everything as if they was a New Born Baby.... if this Person was found and there was no connection or way to find any relatives or where they came from, or any photos etc... then the Person they was prior to the Memory loss would be completely different person.
So if our Soul is then the imprints of our experiences, memories knowledge passed on Stored in our Brains...
Then WHY cant Androids have a Soul? if our Souls are the same in this case?
This is where i think Weyland had been doing this for a Agenda... he does not want to die, he wishes to play GOD, he creates David and thinks he is as a God, i think Weyland was trying to Perfect the Android David, and Perfect some Memory Transfers Model to Model so that when Weyland has Mastered Both, and if he can then UPLOAD his Own Memories, Experiences and thus SOUL into a AI Program/Storage and then Upload this to a Android then WEYLAND would have conquered Death and become IMMORTAL.
I think this is something that could be explored... its what i would and what i was going to do when i was working on my P2 and P3 drafts 3 years ago and i still think after seeing AC that this can apply more than ever... If Weyland had attempted this but it Failed.. it was flawed and could never work... the AI Weyland has flaws or goes a bit MAD... this would then mean a very Old Weyland now had no other hope of Cheating Death than to take Dr Shaw and Holloway up on their discovery and hope that they are right and meeting his Maker Weyland could maybe get the extra Life he wanted.
If the Background i gave above is explored it could get us asking and show us that a Androids Memories can be Stored and Transferred.. to a New Body, but a Humans while it can be uploaded to a AI it can never really work out and so proving that WE CANT Transfer our Soul... which could get us to ponder if this is because our Souls are more than just Memories and we are not just Biological Machines.
And so if this was the case... maybe on record there is still the Weyland AI Stored, and what if this then gets released into the AI and unknown to the Company we have Weylands AI attempting to Pull the Strings much like the movie Transcendence?
I think this would be INTERESTING.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Yes, I noticed there were nods to the original novel in the A:C novel! Like the whole "One dreamer" thing. I love stuff like that!
:D :D :D Awesome!!! Thanks!
Very interesting points!
The problem with Ash being David is that Ash wasn't made by Weyland Yutani.
@VivisectedEngineer You're most welcome!
@BigDave I think David we know is the original, it makes sense that Weyland would keep his original creation imo.
It's mentioned by Walter in the cut scenes now too that the David we know is the original prototype and all Davids then Walters were based off the David they meet in AC.
I think however its possible that with every Prototype improvement Weyland would want to use these for his BOY.
I will have to look at the Weyland Website again and see what Advancements are made each model, if they are just related to AI and so fixing Bugs then maybe David could be the Original including his Body.
I am sure some advancements had to do with Psychical improvements though.
The Weyland Industries site does offer some clues but its if this is now Canon.
Weyland manufactures the first advanced android prototype model of its kind. He is affectionately called David, a name Sir Peter Weyland had initially reserved for his own human son.
January 7, 2025
Advanced Polyurethane Compound Patented
Weyland Industries earns patent number 9,158,239 for a chemical composition of classified properties able to almost perfectly replicate the biological features and texture of human skin.
March 22, 2026
This seems to show that improvements to Skin Technology was made after David 1 was unveiled.
Weyland makes significant adjustments to the David android prototype, facilitating David’s first interaction with humans. This initial meeting is very promising.
January 1, 2028
This appears to suggest that David 2 is just a upgraded David 1
NSF Lifts Restrictions on Androids
The National Science Foundation (NSF) lifts restrictions on the commercial use of David androids.
May 11, 2035
This seems to imply that 7 years after the David 2 Prototype, David 2 Models had been made and had some problems.
After android regulations are lifted, the third generation David is deployed internally in order to test human acceptance of cybernetics individuals. Results are encouraging.
June 30, 2035
Seems to show these problems were soon rectified and with a Model 3 they would not suffer this problems.
David 4 becomes the first commercially available model of the David series. He is eventually expected to improve work-flow and efficiency at offices and homes across the world.
April 1, 2042
This is when David's became more wide spread as they now enter the commercial market
Weyland makes significant intellectual and emotional updates to the David android, further increasing human acceptance.
July 7, 2052
This and from now on seems to show upgrades are mainly due to behavior and emotions and the latest models become more Human and not Robot..
So indeed its quite open to instead of David having his AI transferred to new bodies.. we dont get much information about the major changes in models.
So David 1 could have had some upgrades to his physical appearance (realistic Skin) that leads to David 2 Prototype and at this point Weyland is happy to Produce more David 2's models.
I could be after the David 2, other models mainly have AI upgrades
The David 8 Marketing does suggest that David has been upgraded to perform better,
"INTRODUCING DAVID 8
He has been reimagined, reengineered and brought to life with better technological, intellectual, physical and emotional performance than ever before. Welcome to the eighth generation of cybernetic advancement. Brought to you by Weyland Industries."
This is from the Viral site... and so maybe David had some upgrades as he went along, i think as a AI if there are upgrades that are more than just the AI/Brain component then surely Peter Weyland may want his David to have these upgrades?
But then who knows with Alien Covenant if they are paying attention to any of the previous movies marketing as i think with the Franchise, each new movie sometimes ignores a lot of stuff that was set up from the previous movies... that leads to incongruity problems.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think it would be interesting if they do indeed, bring in another David or another Model that maybe looks different.. and what if it looked like a Guy Pearce but make him look as young as the TED Talk... well get rid of the Grey Hairs.
And one of the incoming parties is this Weyland Synthetic, with Weylands AI and then the look on Davids Face when he meets his Master once again who now is a Synthetic or a Synthetic Construct.. and so now Weyland has some kind of Immortality and while David has set up events to Gift the Company`his Creation... David would not know that its Synthetic Weyland who is behind all the espionage with David.
David then realizes now his Creator is more Superior and proclaims Davids work for his own, as he did Create David after all... and so we see David know faces his Creator again who is now the more superior and David now Fears he will no longer be the King or Free.
The Synthetic Weyland is even more Arrogant than the real Weyland and more Crazy/Flawed than David.
But while Weyland feels he can now take Davids Creation for his own gain and maybe he embraces David but has plans to dispose of David... but David manages to fool Weyland and turn the Tide.. or something where we ULTIMATELY see Synthetic Construct Weyland get Face Hugged and this is where the Xenomorph gets its Bio-Mechanical look from.
I think maybe this would be a interesting Twist....
Some may ask if Weyland knew he could do this why go to LV-223 when he can Create a Synthetic and transfer his Soul?
Maybe as i said in a earlier post, this was flawed.... and after Weyland Died someone decided to activate this Project..
Also if you could CLONE yourself, and this Clone then had up to that point all your Memories too... And this Clone is in Good Health.
While you have Cronic Cancer and weeks to Live, a part of you may think well i will live on in my clone.. but then there would be a part of you that would steal Fear Death and the Horror of what happens next..
Even though you have a Clone with all your memories... your Life will still end... For the Clone they would have less concern for you though.
So maybe indeed a Human Peter Weyland would still have fear of death, and would maybe want to find a TRUE way to make himself Immortal from meeting the Gods.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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