Comments (Page 305)

"A re-boot or another prequel, what would you like to see in another Alien movie? It could be a sequel to AC, a spin-off or what ever."

When looking at the above  i am not a fan of REBOOTS maybe its fine for other Franchises but i think continuing Franchises like ALIEN and also say TERMINATOR i think a Reboot would just do HARM to the Originals.

So lets say that leaves us with a Literal Alien Covenant Sequel, a Pseudo Alien Covenant Sequel (kind of be like a Spin Off).

A Pseudo Alien Covenant Sequel being a movie that Follows the events of Post Prometheus/Alien Covenant but is still set prior to ALIEN in the year 2122.  So this would be a Movie that would take place to events/plots that tied into the Prequels but will-not follow through to connect with David or the Covenant Crew and certainly not play a part in the chain of events that lead to ALIEN.  Well at least not for the Most part.

This would mean a Human Ship ends up either going to explore LV-223 or Planet 4, maybe in response to the Advent Message David had sent, but maybe this ships CREW are not completely in the know about exactly why they are heading there.  For example they could be told they are a Salvage/Rescue or Investigative Mission to discover what happened to the Prometheus or told that there has been the detection of a Earth-like Planet (Planet 4) and have a team be sent down to that place.

Either such a Plot could be freed up from having to tackle what directly happens as far as the Story Path that David is part of that leads to ALIEN while also allowing us to look at some NEW stuff but also get some clues/hints to the Engineers and what they was doing.

These kinds of Story could take place after what ever would have been planned for Planet 4 in a Literal Alien Covenant Sequel... as far as WHEN the Engineers Return and what becomes of Walter, any movie thats set to go to Planet 4 but not touch upon Walter and a Literal Alien Covenant Sequel could be set afterwards and after the Engineers had came back and then set off looking for David.

As far as other SPIN-OFFS in Movies/Stories that are set in the same Universe but DONT tackle Post Events of the Prequels, then these become more difficult and limited, because its then a case of do you explore a Movie Based on the Weyland Company and Yutani either prior to the Merger, during the Merger or after?  But then this would likely be a Story that does not cover Engineers and Xenomorphs and so for some Fans would NOT be a ALIEN movie.

Do you tackle a Spin-Off that deals with the Ancient Past, and the Engineers, which would need Human Characters and so would have to be set on Earth in the Ancient Past or maybe set on another World where Engineers had come and collected a Colony of Humans to take some place else.

The scope for something like this is Quite Large, we have to Question and Wonder is EARTH the only World were Humans or very close to Humans Live? Another option within this kind of a Spin-Off could be that a Colony/Group of Humans where taken from Earth 2000 years ago in some kind of NOAH'S ARK like Event, where the Engineers Rescued a Number of Humans to take to another Place to Start again leaving the Earth then ready for the Planned Destruction.  This kind of a Movie Plot could be set Thousands of years ago... or only as in a few Flash-Backs but then be set in the year 2000, 2100, 2200 etc as we look at HOW these Humans have gone on since being Evacuated by some Engineers.  Such a Plot could reveal more about the Reasons for LV-223 and our Planned Destruction as well as Answer some of those Questions Dr Shaw had.  But i think such a Spin-Off would maybe not require or maybe would be too coincidental if it had Xenomorphs.. but then we come to some fans who would not take to any ALIEN Franchise Spin off because there are NO Xenomorphs.

The other Spin-Off kind would be a Human Ship (for what ever reason) ends up discovering a World/Moon that is not Planet 4, not LV-223/LV-426 but some other place that has some Cave System, some remains of a Outpost (Human or Engineer), a Mining Colony or has a crashed Engineer Ship.

The humans then make a Terrible Discovery/Mistake and this allows for the introduction of either/all of these.. Engineers, Black Goo, Xenomorph related Organisms.  But on one hand these could be done in a way to give us a MOVIE maybe many would have liked a Prometheus to had been..

It also means we are getting a kind of Re-Hash of a Alien, Prometheus or Aliens.  Maybe even a Alien Resurrection. And so would not be VERY Original.

I think RS had a idea to bring them back.... seems he was not pleased with the Direction of Alien Covenant, due to him mentioning that he felt he was (ahead of the curve) with Prometheus.

He has indicated the Engineers are NOT all gone, they do return to Planet 4 and certain Intervals and they will RETURN to discover what has happened to their Civilization on Planet 4 and WONT be pleased about it.

So he has indicated that the Engineers will be one of the 3/4 Incoming Parties to where ever David ends up with he Covenant Ship.  Is it interesting to Ponder HOW is it RS cant make his mind up that its 3/4 Parties?  Does this mean ONE Party is actually TWO Parties who differ somewhat, be that Agenda or Looks...

Could that mean we have Planet 4 Types and LV-223 Types? or only ONE type and if so which?

So i think they will come back, well they was planned to be, but its in what Context/Role i know RS was interesting in the Themes of Prometheus  and the Creation/Creator Rebellion and Sub-Creation Theme..  Which David/AI fits in and he is also very interesting in the David Angle in this Context.

The Question is he interesting in this angel in Context to our Engineers, and will we be seeing more Depth/Story regarding the Engineers... or is there RETURN only needed as a PLOT DEVICE to obtain our Space Jockey and his SHIP?

This is interesting to Ponder because the Plot for Prometheus gives more scope than to just having these Engineers visit Earth, Experiment on LV-223 and Originate from Planet 4.    

Where else have they seeded LIFE, how many more Intelligent Organisms have they Created/Manipulated and Evolved?   How many other Worlds have they Visited and still visit and how many Worlds have the Colonized?

Because Prometheus seemed to indicate this could be MANY especially for a Race that has been doing the whole Seeding/Evolving for Many Millions or Years.. and ESPECIALLY for a Race who have other GALAXIES in their Space SAT-NAV Systems.

So it would be interesting to see HOW much RS would be bringing our Engineers back... the whole he could do another 6 movies and the WAR OF THE WORLDS route he would take the Franchise if he was allowed...  Does kind of make us wonder HOW such a Plot could contradict the Alien Franchise?

It WOULD-NOT if the Space Jockey/Derelict Event was closer to the Time-Line of ALIEN (10 or less years prior) AND if they removed ALIENS onward from Canon..  Then a WAR OF THE WORLDS aftermath to Alien Covenant would NOT affect or cause any in-continuity problems with a ALIEN sequel/sequels.

I just dont think that would SIT well with many Fans, but then also going the War of the Worlds Route could conflict the Alien Franchise.

That Plot was more the Earlier ALIEN Draft rather than STARBEAST, it was , David Giler and Walter Hill who introduced the AI Robot addition to the ALIEN draft that was based off O'Bannons Star Beast

So i will reply regarding the Original Star Beast...

A lot from Star Beast has been applied to other Franchise movies, especially the Prequels...   The TWO things that had only loosely be looked at is.

The Ritualistic Sacrifice...  which had only been hinted at in regards to the Stance from Engineers Sacrificing themselves (maybe others) to Procreate Xenomorph like Organisms.. more evident on LV-223..  but ambiguously mentioned by David in the Advent... but this is a case of was this attributed to Ritual Sacrifices on LV-223,  or on Planet 4 regarding Xenomorph like Organisms... or meaning as far as the Sacrificial Seeding Rituals.. (this is where it was ambiguous).

The Domesticating/Civilized Star Beast (or similar) this was indicated a bit in regards to the New-Born in ALIEN: Resurrection.  But also indicated a little regarding Davids scene when Faced with the Neomorph, and to a lesser degree the Oram Chest Buster.

So touching on the last point, it could have been starting to show us that MAYBE the Xenomorph like Organisms could be Domesticated/Tamed to a degree... or at least attempts to do so... this is maybe what David would have been trying or even maybe had tried to do before, and it would be interesting to see if David could attempt to do this in a Future Movie..

The Whole Prometheus Plot is kind of connected to this, in context to KNOWLEDGE and without any programing David would be just a Crash Test Dummy.  and Prometheus could have been hinting to us that WITHOUT visitations by the Engineers and Teachings, we would have remained more Animalistic, Aggressive and UN-Civilized just as say Cave-Men may have been.

This is a element that Star Beast had covered with the Beast in Question... the one that featured in that story was Juvenile and had NO contact with its own kind and so acted by only Natural Instincts but it is indicated that when raised by Domesticated/Civilized Adults, they raise these Juveniles to become Civilized  and we could look at this as raising a Ape from a Baby, you are more likely to see less Animalistic and Aggressive Nature raised with a lot of Human Contact and Nurture, than raising one in a Closed Off Pen with NEVER no actual Human Contact, who would have more Aggression and be less Domesticated.   The same to a degree would apply with a Human Baby too.

so maybe the David and Neomorph scene in AC is a way of showing that maybe David could have Nurtured the Neomorph to not be as aggressive.

The First Point i made regarding Ritual Sacrifice, is the more difficult one as far as HOW it could be covered, because in STARBEAST its indicated the Organism itself is part of a Civilized Alien Species/Culture who require HOSTS to Procreate and they take the whole Procreating Ceremony as a Important and Revered Ritual  but in Star Beast its the Organisms themselves who have created this Ritual and Temples where they are HELD

In the ALIEN Franchise it is the Engineers who created the Rituals and Temples to Procreate a Organism and NOT their own kind.

So maybe introducing a Very Alien Race who the Xenomorph, Neomorph and Deacon can all Trace their Ancestral DNA Roots too and have it these ALIENS had either came across or created the Engineers (or their Ancestors) purely to Procreate this ALIEN Species some many many Millions of Years ago!

But these Engineers (or Ancestors) Rebelled against this Purpose and Eventually the ALIEN Species had Died out because they had LOST Control over their Hosts, these Engineers or Ancestors then are free to learn the ways of these ALIEN Masters maybe used their Technology, and then persue Ambition to Create for themselves..

But then down the line these Engineers (or Ancestors) or other relations to them, try to incorporate the DNA Traits of their OLD Masters, to obtain the Bio-Mechanical Traits we see..  And maybe trying to Merge DNA of their Ancient ALIEN Masters with their own or Resurrect their ALIEN Masters could be the GREATEST Hubris these Engineers (or related) had done!

I think something like THIS ^^^ could make a connection to STARBEAST and bring in the Origins of the Bio-Mechanical Atheistic (HR Giger) while also fitting in with the Themes that Prometheus had laid down.

After Prometheus and AC have been out for a long time now, I look at the Engineers in general as being wiped out by David.

"The Original Idea was to give us Xenomorphs, but also different kinds and then hint......."

My brother and all his friends assumed that Prometheus was about the Xenomorphs and it was their origin story. I Had to sit them down and explain the why/what/who.

To the casual viewer, it's was probably Ripley or the star beast. Space Jockey who?

I think on one hand it could be interesting, but on the other i feel its a concern to go back to the ALIENS formula or run away and shoot stuff!

For a Comic however i understand that to Portray Multiple Xenomorphs and Action is easier than trying to deliver the Tense Horror of being stalked by a Lone Xenomorph like Alien Isolation had done.

I do think the more ALIENS Action element is what we could end up with any Game sequel anyway, and indeed i do feel this would also be the route any NEW Alien movie would take, be it a continuation to the Prequels or not.

I think Characters and a Good Story for them to be involved with and Executed is certainly a must....  and a Movie about David/AI or Engineers will just not do that.

UNLESS..... it revolves around Human Characters who are put in Peril/Jeopardy when they realize just who the Engineers are and/or David/Implications of AI taking Control

The Xenomorph i feel just wont be as Scary as it used to be, even if we try and portray it in other ways... Sadly MOST of the Fans will expect the Xenomorphs to play a larger role in a ALIEN movie.

The Horror of Discovering for other unaware Humans that Mankind was created in part by the Engineers, or their Creators would be a SHOCK but even more so if its revealed OUR Creation as not important and we are not Treasured by our Gods...  And the revelation that these beings are our Creators and then reveal a Sinister Agenda or Outlook to them could be more Horrifying.

As would be the Discovery that David is not the obedient Android Walter... but the Corrupt and Sentient David would come as a shock to them, but more so if its then Discovered that David has passed on the same-freewill and outlook towards Mankind that he has... and passed this onto ALL the Companies AI which include the Computer Systems.

But for either of these things to work then those Characters that are placed in Jeopardy have to be Relatable and Realistic and so well Cast/Performed and Written.

The Xenomorph Chest Buster, Face Hugger and being Hunted by Xenomorphs or similar TROPE will not work over and over No Matter how much Body Gore is used..  Only the Jump Scares and those who find Gore Horrific will Horrified by such things.

In Context with Characters we care for, they would still work to a degree....

I think a Main Problem is trying to Settle on WHAT kind of a Movie to make...  a Mystery/Thriller,  a Horror/Thriller a Action/Horror a Thought Provoking Philosophical Movie?

Because i think TRYING to make a movie that offers all of those could be set to FAIL for trying to be too many things.

"He wasn't in too bad of shape to approach an Engineer as a centurion"

Maybe he should have shouted to the Engineer... "Power Xtreme"

Then again the Engineers Bio-Pressure Suits do remind me of the Centurions ones ;)

Power Xtreme

The sucked into space via airlock or broken window (AR) gag (or tangled up with a vehicle- AC) has grown really old. Agree that Alien 3 broke the mold that way.

Interestingly, Isolation broke ranks and had a group of Xenomorphs out in open space.......walking on the ship and surrounding Amanda.

Exactly Ingeniero, it was explained in the commentary by RS that the baby neomorph was growing really fast while it was hunting Faris in the lander.

"It wasn’t until Prometheus that we got these questions and it feels like Scott is more interested in that than to deal with the monster."

The Original Idea was to give us Xenomorphs, but also different kinds and then hint to us that there are various related Organisms that are created via using a EVOLUTIONARY CREATION TOOL to experiment with some related Organism that is likely NOT a creation of the Space Jockey Race.

But once you have answered HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph was Discovered/Created and we have our Answers, and once we have a Spoon Fed Plot to show HOW/WHEN the Eggs got in the Derelict, then its a Question of WHATS NEXT?

Once we reveal the Xenomorph is a Engineered Weapon... HOW MANY more times can we introduce Eggs, Face Huggers, Chest Busters and Xenomorphs? 

So when working on a Prequel this was no doubt one of the MAIN things to look at... if the Xenomorph is a Engineered Weapon, then the BIGGER Question then is WHY as in who was this Weapon Intended for and for what Purpose (to Attack or Protection from WHO?)

Once you have answered that, its then how many more Done to Death Xenomorph movies can you push out!  Once you have answered the Xenomorph Origin and Purpose and who it was intended for its a case of WHATS NEXT?

Which then would likely be to EXPLORE the Space Jockey Race!

*Who are they?

*Where are the rest of them?

*What Purpose/Goal to they have?

These are what they can explore ONCE they have answered the connection with the Xenomorph, especially if it was a Engineered Bio-Weapon.   And this is where the ENGINEERS/GODS Plot came into play... Bold indeed... a error in Hindsight? Maybe...

"Perhaps it would have been better if Prometheus would have been a stand alone movie? "

They hoped it would Branch off to be its own thing, and steer away from LV-426, and Xenomorphs... but i guess the point you are making is that IF there was NO Weyland Company, IF those Engineers Suits/Ships DID-NOT look like the Space Jockey suits and Derelict.. and Finally if the Black Goo and Organisms DID-NOT look to close to the Xenomorph...   Then it could have been a interesting Stand Alone Franchise but once the Plot is Connected to the ALIEN Franchise it was bound to not set right with some Fans, and when it then NEVER provided enough Answers for them, it further disappointed those fans.

"Replicants? Leave that to the Blade Runner thing and similar movies, keep it away from the alien franchise."

By Replicants.... i mean that it appears that those Prometheus Engineers could be Genetically Upgraded Creations of those Planet 4 Engineers.  There is a connection, they are different but also similar.   So just as Humans are Similar to Engineers, just as Replicants are similar to Humans, and David is similar to Humans (only not Organic) This was the connection they are trying to make, in the pursuit of Creating in your OWN image.

So we may have though the Prometheus Engineers are the Gods/Creators... but the route they are taking now seems to imply they are just a Creation/Upgrade of those Planet 4 Engineers.

Ridley Scott Broadly is touching on the subject and chain of Creation/Creator and Rebellion by Creation and Hubris of creating something in your own image and then when this Creation becomes Sentient.  It also touches on the Pursuit of Creating Perfection and the Hubris this brings.

"Sure they could have had a reason for cutting it but I would have preferred if it would have stayed in the movie."

Ridley Scott had hinted WHY the Elders Scene was deleted, and in part it was because he Did-Not want to Give to Much away in the First Movie.  And also he Did-Not want to meet GOD in the First Movie.

This implies the Prometheus Engineers are not the GODS and indeed their is a Hierarchy above them, the Question is would this be their Creators? or is the Hierarchy more like Egyptians Pharaohs and Demi-Gods or is it more like some Ancient Cultures such as Native Indians in that the Elders are just the Old/Wise?

We really could not be sure... could it be that RS intended to show those above the Engineers in Prometheus would look more different, than just OLD, FRAIL versions of those Prometheus Engineers?

Another thing to consider is the passing of the Sacrificial Cup from these ELDERS to the Sacrificial Engineer, which we see the Elders are about the same Height as the Sacrificial Engineer.  

ORIGINALLY the Altar in Prometheus had the Sacrificial Cup and NOT a Green Crystal and this Sacrificial Cup was LARGER compared to Humans (Holloway) which if we ASSUMED it was the Same Cup than this would IMPLY the Sacrificial Engineer and Elders are LARGER than Humans and NOT as in 7-8ft Tall but as in 10ft Tall.

But we could all see the LV-223 Engineers were NOT 10ft Tall, and so that would be a Good Reason to Replace the Sacrificial Cup/Bowl.   By then removing the ELDERS it could imply our Sacrificial Engineer is about 7-8ft Tall... which LEAVES it open to have the Beings/Elders above those Engineers to be introduced as a TALLER 10ft+ Race

By showing the Elders Scene we would be shown maybe that the Sacrificial Engineer and Elders are about the same size as the LV-223 Engineers... Especially if the ALTER Sacrificial Cup/Bowl was kept in place.

But ALAS we was shown some differences with the Paradise Engineers, but they was about the same size maybe bit smaller than our Prometheus Engineers... the comments about the Engineers, seems to indicate those Prometheus Engineers are a Creation (in their image) or Upgrade to those Planet 4 Engineers.

HOWEVER...  we have still not seen the ELDERS it is indicated they are the Hall of Heads Engineers, and RS had confirmed these are the Origins of the Engineers Ways/Culture and the Hierarchy/Leaders but also suggesting they are SUPERIOR BEINGS lets us Ponder in relation to WHO?  Planet 4 Engineers, LV-223 Engineers, or Humans?

This means IF we explore who those Hall of Heads Engineers are they could be made to look like OLDER versions of the Planet 4 Engineers, or OLDER versions of the LV-223 (like Deleted Scene) or even have them as a TALLER Race.

There is point in expecting anything else than the Alien formula. Some people divert from their course, 1 or more idiots gets infected, while they get isolated. 

I wish they just drop this ... 

More Aliens in any format is most excellent and welcome news! 

Will be interesting to see where they go with this. Hopefully it draws enough interest to show there is still life left in the beast

I agree with your last 4 bullet points. Memorable characters are a given and it would be a nice change of pace to see things from a government/corporate perspective.

I am ok with the Engineers dying off like AC suggests and leaving the Space Jockey a mystery.

It is nice to see Isolation get the recognition it deserves! The last moments of the game leave it pretty open but I always thought it would focus on Weyland Yutani. The illustration suggests that and possibly takes her to LV-426 where she is involved with Hadley's Hope? It seems like a bridge to Aliens.

Big Dave:

“We also have to Ponder the Questions of WHY Create and WHAT is a Soul and where to do we go when we DIE...”

Interesting but leave that to another franchise, I would like to get some more information on the Engineers and why they created the Xeno but I guess that a movie about what you mention would be too much to answer especially if we will just get one more prequel, if that. To me that sounds more like a fantasy movie like a crazier version of The Hobbit or what ever.

Paradise could be like the home world of the Hobbits and so on. The heaven could be like that one even though it is not very much like the Alien franchise but that is my point that the franchise is not very much about that at least if we follow what was established in the first three movies. It wasn’t until Prometheus that we got these questions and it feels like Scott is more interested in that than to deal with the monster. He could make another non-alien movie about that, it would maybe make some people interested. Maybe I would watch it but if should be a movie of its own.

“These are things RS had teased with, but things that are certainly not touched upon in ALIEN COVENANT and we have to ask are these things that would have been covered in the Plans they had in 2012?”

Maybe he changed his mind and got more interested in the story of David than a movie about those kind of things. He seems to change his mind a lot, maybe that makes it difficult to make a good story to begin with since things change now and then.

Yup, I think that the idea is interesting but there is so much that you could do with these things so you would eventually make some fans disappointed no matter what you do, like with the alien prequels really. The higher you aim the more likely it is that you will fail.

Perhaps it would have been better if Prometheus would have been a stand alone movie? This would have required better characters and maybe a somewhat different story but when you look at it the movie had potential but got somewhat screwed up along the way but I still can watch it from time to time. Even since the start that was a really mixed bag for me, it is not bad but it is not very good either and there are parts of it that I really dislike but is a two out of five for me, so that is pretty much unchanged.

As far as the Engineers in Prometheus versus those on Planet 4 the Prometheus ones looked a lot more interesting. The AC ones looked like a bunch of farmers from way back. Replicants? Leave that to the Blade Runner thing and similar movies, keep it away from the alien franchise.

Gavin:

“We hoped for Giger meets Lovecraft meets Dante meets Milton.”

Do you mean about the aesthetics (landscapes and that)? That didn't disappoint me, I think that they made that interesting both in Prometheus and Covenant although Prometheus looked better in that way.

As far as David is concerned I think that Scott should make a movie that is just about David. Unfortunately the story about David is connected to the prequels and because of that the Alien story in general. I would not watch a movie about him since I just don’t care that much about the character. Let Scott make a movie about David or something similar but do not have it connected to Alien because that would probably just give us another mediocre movie connected to the franchise. The whole situation about the franchise is just so disappointing.

Didn’t Scott say that it should be the story about the Xeno? It is not even about that at this point. The whole thing is about a mad robot that wants to create for what ever reason. Unfortunately he just cares about David and everything else has got to take a back-seat because of that which lowers the quality of it. Right now we have two prequels and neither of them is very good. Hopefully they can get it right with a third prequel if there will be one but I doubt it. I would honestly prefer if they did not do prequel number three if we would get a disappointing one, I would rather get nothing than to get some crap.

I don’t think that the Engineers are done, they are still important in a way and I hope that we will see more of them in the next movie if there is one. Hopefully they will have a part in the Derelict thing and not David, so hopefully they will be used for that purpose. They should have had more of a role in AC but unfortunately it was reduced to story about a mad android, something that I can not relate to. By the way, I wonder what the differences between the sacrificial Engineer in Prometheus and those in AC are? I guess that it could be that they have different tasks but I would like for them to expand on that a bit in the next movie if there is one.

There was a cut scene in P when the Elders gave the sacrificial Engineer some thing before he dissolved into the water. I wish that they could have kept that scene because that would not have revealed too much about their culture but rather have made the viewers interested if it would have been done right. Sure they could have had a reason for cutting it but I would have preferred if it would have stayed in the movie.

As far as some twists are concerned as BioDegradable puts it, I hope that we will see some interesting things that are unexpected but that are good (not of the quality of David creating the Xenon, ugh!) but we will see if that happens. Yeah it sucks that it is all about David now.

Give David a lesser role/less screen time in the next movie if there is one and focus on the Engineers and the humans with well done human characters. I don't really care about the David story that much, that is one of the things that brought AC down. The themes mean nothing if the characters and the story don't work. Right now there is no one to support so that has got to change and I do not mean that they should give David a change of thoughts but that they should introduce sympathetic and interesting humans in the next movie. Maybe someone will say that it is too late because the prequel trilogy is on its last chapter but I say that they should try to make an end to it that hopefully will make up for Prometheus and Alien Covenant because the result that we have after P and AC is not very impressive to say the least.

It is too bad that we got what we got, I would prefer an interesting movie about the Engineers than a poorly done movie about the Xeno but then you can also say that AC wasn’t about the Xeno as much as it was about an android that had gone bonkers.

Hopefully they will keep that away from the franchise, although I am not 100 % against it but then it got to be very well done with some twist that doesn’t work like things on earth. Keep that away from the franchise. It is too close to how it works on this planet, it should be more odd so to speak. This is why I like the idea of egg-morphing since it is not as well known as having a queen and so on.

Thanks for the Apone character, that he was an experienced military in real life probably helped when he was making the role. Didn’t they have some extras on the Aliens DVD where they interviewed some of the actors in Aliens where me mentioned something about him having military experience? I have some memory of this but I can be wrong.

Revived by a spammer. :D

Am I the only one that finds that to be amusing? It feels silly in a way, the thread didn’t get revived by anyone that is interested in the topic but by someone that wants to post a link that probably is safe to stay away from. Maybe it is just me but I feel sort of worried that the computer would get a virus if I would visit that page.

The airlock thing to me feels over-done, that is one of the things that Alien 3 did right that the monster died in another way. This is another thing that I didn’t like about AC although it was far from the worst that they did. It was alright in Alien and Aliens but then it became too much. Maybe it could work if the final battle took place in a forest or something that doesn’t include metal.

I Moon Girl: Well the thread hasn’t got that many replies so I guess that it is alright. There is no need to feel stupid about that

I enjoy ALIEN as is.  If the plan was to try and get the alien in the escape pod, I would figure THAT would be the driving force of the movie after the alien is in there.  I really enjoyed the air shaft shock too.

To much time would be dedicated to trapping this thing.  If the crew came up with a clever trap, I might enjoy it more, but what kind of trap does an alien fall for when you just found out intelligent life exists by accident?

I rate ALIEN as a 10/10.  No problems with it except some practical effects which fell victim to 1970's effect resources.  The story is solid though.

I just realized that this is an old post.  Hmm...

1990. I remember pagers were the rage- remember those? He wasn't in too bad of shape to approach an Engineer as a centurion.

Great screen shots Dark Nebula.

When Rosenthal was attacked by the neomorph near the shoreline on Planet 4, you can see it grow during the sequence.

The shots above seem to show the xenomorph in the same way, growing. 

"Look into my Eye." Love the ring.

He was a wonderful human being. I'm sure this fine Marine was than helpful on keeping the unit tight on set. 

"Get on the ready line...it's time to die!"

Thank you for posting dk.

"KILLS Millions"

Do we think zombie Fifield or zombie Holloway were going to die from this outbreak? Or live long lives?

I really don't know what mutant Fifield's plans were....

mutants

RS/Fox Probably didn't want to go down the same path as Alien:Resurrection and Ripley's cloning birth defects angle...

David could have tried to create a human type baby with Shaw's womb....But I think that would have been a little much!

David "Here is your daughter Elizabeth"

Shaw screams.

Oh and Shaw loses her partner to fire...just like Daniels loses hers....is fire a theme?

I think it depends how we view the Xenomorph and maybe IF they had got a chance to Finish the Prequels they MAY or MAY-NOT have given us more into the Psychological Traits of the Xenomorph.     We maybe have to look at WHY David Created it, and could he had taken interest in WHY the Engineers had been meddling with those experiments on LV-223.

RS has said the Xenomorph felt like it was a Weapon, in relation to making AC, he also said at the time of Prometheus and prior that the Xenomorph was a BIO-WEAPON and so we have to ask was Davids Agenda to Perfect a Killing Machine?

If we however look at the Xenomorph in the Franchise and the Neomorphs... what we seem to get is Organisms that have the sole purpose to Procreate... its via the Method they use to Procreate where they would be Destructive to Native Species of Life on a Infected World.

You would Engineer a Virus that passes through Blood, that has the effects of EBOLA but also can be passed on like the FLU and then have it that Mosquitos are able to Transmit this Virus/Pathogen...   Unleash Infected Mosquitos on a Country and watch as the Virus KILLS Millions..

However all the Mosquito would be doing is a Natural thing it requires to Procreate, its intention would not be to KILL people, only to acquire their Blood.

This is how i view the Xenomorph at present.. it is a Organism that is Invasive with a Agenda to Procreate,  only that in order to do this it would require a HOST and the Process of this and maybe Food Sources too, that the Organism would have a Destructive Effect on a Population it is released on.

So as ASH had mentioned... the Xenomorph is seen as PURE in its intentions, it is not subject to Morals, it has no Emotion it acts only on its instinct to SURVIVE.

The BLACK-GOO is the tricky one, as we still dont really know much about it... only its now some McGuffin for sure, i still try and look at it as the way Jon Spaights had envisioned... which is a Creative/Hybridization/Evolutionary Tool.

So Good could come from it..... Puppies, Butterflies and Mother Teresa all came from it ;)

Unless we are look at the Sacrificial Goo and Black Goo as TWO separate things...  i am still on the side of Jon Spaights in that i think (this was the Original Intention) that the Sacrificial Goo was a Substance that breaks down a Organism and Forms into a Mutagen that then passes on the DNA and best Traits of the Organism it had consumed, and passes these Traits onto any Organism it infects while also keeping the better Traits of infected Organism and Evolving them.

Puppies are CUTE!!!

A Puppy infected by the Sacrificial Goo, that breaks down into a Mutagen and this infects say 10-15 people in a Pool the Mutagen enters... will lead to not Puppies... but Aggressive WOLF-MEN like beings..

Well i assume ;)

This was a great movie that I have really enjoyed watching!

For those who did not watch it yet

You can Watch Alien Covenant 2017 here:

https://www.instamovies.to/movies/watch-alien-covenant-online/

Oh no

"Even the inception of his creation lacks kindness and relies on the violent assault and destruction of another organism."

Is this David's fault or the pathogen/black goo? 

I wonder if it's possible to create anything 'good' from the stuff? Butterflies ..puppies...?

The inhabitants on on Planet 4 i think you raise good points, i think it depends if we take what Ridley Scott claims as Accurate and if this information is what they will stick too.

As he claims those Planet 4 Engineers are the ORIGINALS he also claimed that they LIVE for about 150 years.   When Prometheus was released, RS had mentioned that he Did-Not want to meet GOD in the first movie, i think in context to the removal of the ELDERS scene.  Which implied the Sacrificial/LV-223 Engineers are not the GODS  certainly implying they are not the Hierarchy

The Original Idea was these Engineers in Prometheus had lost the Ability to Procreate, and they had Enhanced themselves to near Perfection and at the Hubris of loosing a ability to Create Life Naturally (Sexual Procreation) and they also LIVED for Thousands of years...    But this was the Back-Story Presented in Jon Spaights works.

After Prometheus, Ridley Scott had mentioned in context to the Engineers in Prometheus, and certainly in context to the LV-223 Engineers that they are not the GODS he does also mention the Engineers (in general) can create LIFE in other ways but the Sacrificial Scene was just how they Chose to do it.  He had often referred to the Prometheus Engineers as FALLEN.

so when we look at those comments, it could lead us to conclude that the LV-223 Engineers (maybe Sacrificial too) were either.

*Genetically Enhanced Creation by those Planet 4 Engineers.

*Group of those Engineers (Planet 4) who had Genetically Enhanced themselves.

*Or had been Created/Enhanced by those Hall of Heads beings (Elders).

Regarding those Hall of Heads we had RS and another member of his team mention those beings where the Wise Men (Ancient), the Apostles (of their Rituals/Ways) the Hierarchy and more interesting... SUPERIOR BEINGS but Superior to Whom?  Mankind? Those other Engineers on Planet 4?

I am drawn to the LV-223 Engineers (maybe Sacrificial too) being in effect the Engineers (Planet 4) Equivalent to Replicants 

@someperson   Whoa... Nice post!

"huge mining payload"

Perhaps there wasn't a mining payload aboard the Nostromo?

Could have been an insurance scam....

Or someone/thing else in the hold?

Dallas "Okay, that's all the cargo transferred.."

Ash "Thank you captain. Your account will be funded and your service record expunged" 

Dallas "All I care about is the safety of my crew"

Ash "You need not worry. Now please return to hyper sleep"

"So I am left to conclude that his quote is deceitful and in role with him impersonating Walter."

Indeed this could be the only reason for that comment, because David would have to try and persuade Daniels that he is Walter and such reassuring words will help with his Charade....  David's Character is something that is a bit ambiguous,  on one hand (no pun intended) he may have not felt contempt/dislike for all Humans, and his treatment by Dr Shaw may have allowed him to see some Good in Mankind, and leading to him having a Genuine Care for her... But on the other hand, he could be playing a Manipulative Game all along...  at the End of Prometheus we had to consider a STALEMATE  where David would not be able to put himself back together so he NEEDS the help of Dr Shaw and on the other hand, Dr Shaw NEEDS Davids help or else she is stuck on that Rock!

She would know once David is back in one piece that she potentially is bound to whatever whims he has... and so David would know that he would have to Persuade her, and so his interaction/actions towards Dr Shaw could had been a RUSE to get her to put himself back together and have her TRUST him... but then once she is in Cryo-sleep he is then FREE to pursue what ever Agenda he has..  Or he could have genuinely built a good relationship with Dr Shaw and indeed Cared for her and her Safety....  Its a hard one to call...

The Question is if he genuinely cared and bonded with Dr Shaw, could he do the same with Daniels and would he actually want to do the same...  The BIGGEST direction the Sequel would go would depend on WHAT agenda David has.

However... when looking at comments by RS in which he says the next movie is more about AI, and not about the Xenomorph.  I guess this rules out a straightforwards Plot of David merely using Colonists/Daniels to Produce 100's or Thousands of Eggs..  However.... this does not mean the movie would have NO Xenomorphs... and its a case of would seeing how he obtains Thousands of Eggs or even a Smaller amount, but not have any Eggs or only 1-2 actually infect a Host...  would this constitute a movie that is NOT about the Xenomorph?  So RS comments could be we would not be seeing a movie about Xenomorphs on the Scale of like ALIENS.

The next Question is where is David going?  RS has hinted it could be Origae-6 but it could be LV-223 i dont see what LV-426 has in store for him.... unless we go for a Change in Plot where the Egg Cave is actually NOT part of the Derelict Ship.

"at the time of Alien, the crew did not recognize the typical horseshoe shaped Engineer ship nor is there any mention of other Alien races"

This is part of a Problem by doing a Prequel Series, as at VERY LEAST  it appears LV-223 and LV-426 are close by, and while the Company may not be aware of LV-223 (some Cover-up Conspiracy) by the events of ALIEN i feel it highly unlikely they would not have any idea about LV-223 by the time of ALIENS or when Hadleys Hope was set up..

The only logical way to cover these in-consistences/in-continuity errors would be either..

*LV-223 is Destroyed by the time of either ALIEN or at very least by the time of ALIENS.

*The whole Truth about LV-223 is hidden from most of Mankind in some cover-up conspiracy that may include its Destruction.

I feel a revelation about AI overtaking the Puppet Strings over the  Company/Mankind is a Logical Way to deal with this Conspiracy.

"but after Mother translated it to be a warning signal, why would the company representative be
adamant about continuing the operation despite the huge mining payload they were carrying. It doesn't make sense"

It seemed that ASH had only ONE Priority which was Special Order 937 to obtain a Specimen and everything is Expendable as the only Priority is obtain the Xenomorph.

Throughout the Franchise it was always interesting to see WHY the companies pursue such  FOLLY over and over. With little Care for the Jeopardy and Mankinds Safety

Throwing in the AI CURVE-BALL where AI is calling the Shots helps to make more Sense of WHY they would pursue the Xenomorph and WHY we have ASH so fascinated by it... it is a Creation by one of his OWN and a TOOL that could be used to Eradicate Mankind so that the AI/Machines can become the GODS.

 Hi guys. Just a few more thought upon reading all your awesome responses.

In regards to David's quote, "if we are kind, it will be a kind world", I think this speaks more to the evolution of David and the continuing transcendence of AI to include complex human behavior. In other words David had enough affection and sympathy for Daniels that he wanted to settle her mind despite knowing full well what was in store for her. In addition, I think he strives to play the role of Walter
close to perfection because it gave him a sense of superiority to be able to successfully impersonate the android he overcame. So when David made this quote, he was still behaving as Walter would .....in either case David displays complex human behavior for an AI. In the first scenario, he is not just a cold killing machine, he is aware and considerate of the consequences of his actions as they relate to human beings and tries to alleviate unnecessary suffering. In the second scenario, he takes on the role and personality of Walter and manages to deceive the crew of the Covenant. Interestingly, the impersonation of Walter by David is intriguing ....not only from an AI perspective but also because it opens up a new avenue of character development. Is David impersonating Walter or has David's AI personality splintered? A split personality AI ........

More so, I don't see how David's world can be kind. I mean the reality is that he created and is trying to perfect an apex predator whose instinct for survival is paramount. Survival and kindness are kind of mutually exclusive .....to say the least. Even the inception of his creation lacks kindness and relies on the violent assault and destruction of another organism. David surely understands what kindness is since he referred to Dr. Shaw as having a kind heart when she put him back together, however, he must also understand the reality of his creations and how that must relate to kindness. So I am left to conclude that his
quote is deceitful and in role with him impersonating Walter.

Regarding the discovery of the Derelict and Engineers. I don't believe that the Engineers were near Earth Space.....at the time of Alien, the crew did not recognize the typical horseshoe shaped Engineer ship nor is there any mention of other Alien races. If the Engineers had outposts or inhabited planets nearby, it is highly probable that Earth would have been made aware of their presence especially given the planet hunting capabilities as seen in Prometheus and Covenant. So most likely the Derelict and its payload were Earth bound and crashed in a location not near an area inhabited or traveled by Engineers.
The reason I find this intriguing is because of the warning signal that was sent by the Derelict....I am thinking the Engineers did not send out this signal, but if not them, then who and why? I actually went back and watched Alien again and I came away with a new perspective. I was under the impression that the Nostromo just happened upon the SOS beacon as it was traveling back to earth, but upon rewatching Alien, I realized that the Nostromo was deliberately sent to locate and investigate lv-426 and that the company had full knowledge of the biological weapon that was on board. Ash was clear evidence of this from beginning to end ......from his insistence to investigate
the signal under threat of monetary penalty, to the refusal of pulling the crew out upon Mother deciphering the signal as a warning, to the deliberate breaking of quarantine, to the continuous attempt to preserve the creature......all through the movie Ash knew exactly what was going on and was behaving in contrast to his perceived programming....he seemed more like a David 2.0 then the more updated Walter which he would have been modeled
after given the time lapse. I mean I understand Ash's initial impulse as a representative of the company to head toward the SOS signal, but after Mother translated it to be a warning signal, why would the company representative be
adamant about continuing the operation despite the huge mining payload they were carrying. It doesn't make sense. Ash's top priority would be the payload, but yet Ash insists on continuing the operation and makes decision after
decision which puts the payload at risk. So anyway, my guess as to how the Wayland Co knew about the crash site and the cargo of the Derelict, was that a pro-Earth persona was on board the Derelict and they most likely sabotaged
the Derelict, put the warning signal out, and communicated with the Wayland company on the foiled plot to annihilate the Earth..........naively believing that the Wayland company would understand the danger and keep away from the doomed ship. There was no way the Wayland company could have located the Derelict in such as short time or make such a priority to investigate if someone didn't make them aware of it. Only 20 years pass between Covenant and Alien??......my guess is that they brought in the Nostromo because it was the closest thing they had near the reported crash site. But then this leaves other questions like who was the person(s) to activate the warning beacon and report the crash, why didn't they blow up the ship, why didn't they destroy the eggs in the first place .........on the contrary the eggs had an actual preservation mechanism intact (which makes the case for the hangar - interestingly the cave Lambert
described going down looks like an Alien acid hole on the deck with the sides melted off and Alien deposit on the sides). I suspect that the person responsible for the signal/communication was annihilated fighting the Alien
and I suspect that this will be one of the scenes in the next movie ........the showdown on the Derelict ship.

Planet 4. The inhabitants on on Planet 4 remind me of the religious cast of the Mimbari of Babylon 5. The inhabitants on Planet 4 seemed to live a simplified life ......possibly religious, possibly colonists.....from the deleted scenes when the Covenant crew member throws a flare from the bridge of the plaza, you can see that there are many more Engineer ships docked below .....the inhabitants of Planet 4 seem to purposely want to reside there and had the option to leave at any point. I suspect that because they are into genetic modification, they might have different physiological features to better suit them for their lifestyle on the planet. Contrast this with a possible military branch of Engineers which are more robust in their physical appearance. I believe that the small presence of inhabitants on Planet 4 may also have been a result of genetic modification and advanced technology leading to very long life spans which would preclude the need for large populations.I don't see Planet 4 as being significant in the upcoming story other than to be a testimony to David's destruction and to pick up Walter. 

What's the bet Al's teasing Bill Paxton about his slippers up on some cloud somewhere.

Extremely sad. Easily one of my favorite characters from Aliens. He will be greatly missed. :(

If they did implement an alien king then they shouldnkeep his role how it was in comics. It being a genetically modified "male" version of a queen designed to kill off other xenomorphs.

"This would explain why they welcomed the arrival of the Juggernaut returning, in their opinion, for the next chosen one"

This is the conclusion i am most drawn to, as far as to explain Planet 4 and how these beings are presented and have little concern over the incoming Juggernaught... i am drawn to maybe the JUGGERNAUTS and URNS being a Evolution of the Seeding/Sacrificial Method of seeding Life.

This is described better in the Post and ones near it that i made where i have posted the Image of the Sacrificial Engineer Scene and the Hanger.

The LV-223 Engineers as Replicants is interesting... as thats how i am kind of drawn to these also..

*Where these Guys Created for a Specific Reason? By and with the knowledge of those on Planet 4?

*Did the Planet 4 Engineers see these other Engineers in Prometheus as being more Perfect and Chosen their DNA to Seed Worlds instead of their own?

*Did those Prometheus Engineers Evolve themselves and then decided to Seed their DNA on Earth and other Worlds and so THIS was not intended by those on Planet 4?

All interesting Questions to Ponder...

Maybe we could consider them in context to the Movie THX 1138

As far as some Purpose where in this context the Robbed Monks are the Elder Engineers, and where the Android Police are the LV-223 Engineers?

Regarding Planet 4, the conclusion i am drawn to is this place is indeed PARADISE but in context to mainly the Garden of Eden.  Things to remember within this Context are.

*Paradise (Garden of Eden) is the Cradle of Human Civilization, its where our Origins come from.

*Paradise (Garden of Eden) is NOT where GOD comes from.

*Paradise (Garden of Eden) is NOT where the ANGELS come from.

*Paradise (Garden of Eden) is Guarded by Cherub Angels to watch over Humanoid Creation.

If those Engineers in Prometheus are not the Originals and they are not the GODS then we have to look at those Planet 4 Engineers and ask are they the Gods?

When we look at Paradise (Garden of Eden) it is a place created by GOD/Gods where they Created First Man and a place where they would dwell and be able to explore this place but they are WATCHED over by Cherub Angels to make sure they are abiding by the Rules of God and that, NO Fallen Angels can enter this place and corrupt Gods Creation.

After the FALL of Man, they (Man) were Banished/Kicked out of Paradise (Garden of Eden) and went on to dwell on Earth.

So if we look at Paradise as a place where God has this Garden of Eden that provides everything Man needs to survive and Man (Adam) is contained within this Garden where he can be watched over by GOD and his Cherubim Angels

If we now look at Planet 4 then we see these Humanoids who likely predate us and we Originate from them. We see these beings only seem to LIVE within ONE area on Planet 4 and so they are contained within that City, which makes them easier to Watch Over and Control..   We see there was that Scorpion Docking Ship and we can maybe look at this as a Watcher Ship that Protects and Watches over the Inhabitants of Planet 4.

If we look at it like this then we can make comparisons between Planet 4 and its City and the Garden of Eden in Paradise.