Comments (Page 507)

You're far from lazy Ati. And I do agree with BigDave that the location is great...especially for LV-426. Parts of LV-223 looked very similar as well specifically the valley.

The analysis and graphics on the tumblr page (muthur9000.tumblr.com) are impressive.

Ya that's why I limited them to 3 because I can go on for paragraphs about great scenes. 

The franchise has lots of memorable scenes. It is difficult to distill it down to just three- but those are the terms of the OP. 

For me it's a tough choice because Alien has such great scenes.

• The opening scene where you are slowly toured through the Nostromo and the crew wakes up from hypersleep.

• The chestburster scene where the crew is joyfully eating and then the Xenomorph bursts out.

• Ash attacking Ripley and gets his head knocked off by Parker.

Ingeniero - I would vote for Planet 4 as well, but I didn't want to do that in my previous comment because I was lazy :D and I didn't want to contradict the original poster's statement.

Obviously, that is Planet 4. The enigma will stay with us: Weyland had pictures from Planet 4... :)

1. Alien- First glimpse of the Derelict- nothing else like it at the time.

2. Alien Finding the Space Jockey

3. Aliens- Finding the Queen

I understand the confirmation Ati you write of.

I still think the planet shown in both the beginning of Prometheus (above) and Alien: Covenant (below) is Paradise. 

That could explain the birds. Paradise had birds until David arrived.

dk - Great topic!

Lawrence of Arabia - BigDave - daliens - Great comments!

As I see it:

Yes, the novelization mentions that David finds an Alien egg made by (?) the Engineers. One of you mentions here that the movie does not touch this piece of info. I disagree. There's a scene where David touches and 'shows' an egg to Oram before leading him to the death chamber. I believe that this is the egg Foster mentions in the book.

You can see the egg in question here:

Plus there is another egg on the table - a sliced one!!!

I'm sure the eggs in the dark basement chamber were created by David.

As for the facehugger embryos, I do believe that they were taken out of these small eggs. These small alien eggs can be seen on the table as well:

As for the story of the next movie(s), I hope they will use one of the old ideas by Scott: the Engineers are not creators of the eggs found in the Derelict in Alien. They had found them on LV-426 and started to take them to Planet 4 on their ships. That would explain the egg on Planet 4 found by David. One of the Engineer ships couldn't leave LV-426, it is the Derelict.

As for the creators of the original eggs, they are a totally new/unknown species and they are behind everything. In the last chapter they reappear - revenge, clash, war, what you want, etc.

I think this storyline would satisfy every fan.

1. Space Jockey

2. Kane Facehugged

3. Ripley going back to stop self destruct

BigDave - So it can be a kind of confirmation: Weyland knows (has photos of) LV-223 when turns on David. Covenant's first scene does not show Earth through a window, but we see a screen showing LV-223. The problem is that we see birds as well... :D 

I totally agree with Lawrence of Arabia  here:

'have never encountered anything like this, and they are like this on purpose as metaphors for humanity's hubris and illogicality (which is the case in every Alien film).'

I was pretty sure they are still embryos themselves, just like the human ones that are in stasis. 

1. Eggmorphing scene.

2. Alien looks at Jonesy.

3. Derelict, outside and inside.

daliens - No extra intention behind the Fuller photo used in the topic.

It is taken from the original article on vulture.com. I added the link to the source in the topic as well. Please visit the site and read the original article, you'll find the same picture there, thank you:

http://www.vulture.com/2017/05/bryan-fuller-is-not-a-huge-fan-of-alien-covenant.html

Ati

You picked the right picture for the thread, as always.

With all my love for David in Prometheus and some his inspiring lines in AC, I think it is too much to focus on AI in the next movie. I want interesting human characters, like it was in Prometheus.

dk - In my previous comment you can't find my words but lines from the source indicated. However, more or less I agree with them. And with BigDave as well.

daliens - I am on the side of a breathtaking Alien Covenant sequel.

As for Fuller, I do like the Hannibal series he created, but I think his statements/complaints about Covenant are too general. I don't agree with him when he says that in the movie smart characters do stupid things. If it is true, it should refer to other Alien movies as well.

I wanted to know what you think about his opinion, that's all.

Lawrence of Arabia

I do believe the growth rate has something to do with the fact it isn't complete yet and the gestation/growth period determines the strength of the product.

I think you are right again.

I enjoyed Waterson as Daniels and thought she did great for what the character was. Obviously she was meant to evoke Ripley as the females in the Alien universe are strong characters. I believe her role was simply meant to showcase how much of a threat David is if he can take out someone like Ripley as he did with Shaw.

daliens

I do believe the growth rate has something to do with the fact it isn't complete yet and the gestation/growth period determines the strength of the product. Remember how fast it was before the Neomorphs burst out or even the Deacon? David still has some tampering to do as he was disappointed by the Xenomorphs in Covenant. Then again, the gestation/growth varies between hosts and that could be a factor as well. Maybe Awakening will address this.

Indeed the books does seem to indicate that upon arrival, and after the Bombardment, that David did discover a Engineer created Xenomorph Egg.

But it ambiguously could be this was the result of the Black Goo that Evolved into a Egg, that David then decided to EVOLVE so to speak.

we have to wonder did ADF insert this Engineer Egg as his own idea, or from information on earlier drafts he worked on or with FOX/RS was it at this time established that maybe indeed Planet 4 did have some place where Eggs were Stored?

I am not so sure what lead to ADF including the Engineer Egg, or why it was redacted in the Movie, i can assume maybe by having some complex where the Engineers had Xeno Eggs already, would pose some questions as to the Purpose of this.

Self Sacrifice Rituals to procreate the Xenomorph could have been a answer, but it appears if this was the case, its not the case no longer.

As far as the different Chest Buster and the Greater/Faster Rate of Gestation and Growth, these things seem to look like a EVOLUTION of the Organism a IMPROVEMENT

The Growth/Gestation Rate and Chest Buster in ALIEN does not look like a Evolution but actually a Devolution of the Organism.

Ridley Scott has informed us that we are NOT QUITE there yet as far as the ALIEN Xenomorph, he has propsed the Question that is WHY was the ALIEN Bio-Mechanical

Which to me seems to hint that the more Mechanical Aesthetics have yet to come, but then its how would these affect the Gestation Rate and Growth of the Xenomorphs found on LV-426

I think Ultimately those working on the direction they took as far as the Black Goo and Xenomorph for Alien Covenant, had sadly not had a Great A-Z Plan.

I'd just get rid of her role. I thought David was the most fascinating thing about Alien: Covenant. I was so into the movie when David was shown but when Daniels came on screen I lost my fascination. I think they need to put a halt on female lead characters for a while. Ripley was absolutely perfect, Shaw was good, Daniels was bad. They need to stop trying to recreate Ripley. Ridley needs to mix things up in the franchise. Star Wars did a similar thing. After all lead characters being male they made the lead character a female for change. Even though Star Wars is shit now I'm sure the Alien franchise would only improve with a lead character like David or Tennessee. 

Ha ha... indeed i would assume Origae-6 would indeed be very much like Planet 4/Primordial Earth... and indeed it cant go well for Daniels and Tennessee ;)

I think RS will be focusing on Davids Agenda and the Companies Agenda and i would not bet against the Evolution of AI becoming Sentient being the theme for the next movie.

A lot has to be thought about Davids Agenda... as if it was the Destruction of Mankind, then taking the Covenant to LV-223 and picking up a Engineer Ship (assumes he cant acquire one from Planet 4)  would be the most logical answer....

Que-- a repeat of the Alien Covenant Bombardment Scene..

If his Agenda is to Create his Army of Death and then unleash them on Mankind..

Then surely Staying on Planet 4 and using the Colonist to Create Xenomorphs and Eggs from would be the ideal Plan and then Set a Signal/Trap to get the Company or other Human ship to arrive.

I think David knows the company had plans to establish a colony on Origae-6 and so that gives him a good reason to eventually go there and lay a trap... but a better trap would be to set up the Colony Infrastructure  (assuming Origae-6 is uninhabited).  And then Lure in the company/Humans... but the Question is can David build the Colony all on his own?

The biggest flaw in it all is David informing the Company of his findings and agenda, prior before David has even got a Foot-hold to be able to establish his Creations..

Surely the company would come to investigate heavily armed and prepared?  Or do they send some Lambs for the Slaughter like they did with the Nostromo... which would beg the Question that this fails and so why would they attempt it again with the Nostromo.

So its a tricky situation they have now... primarily to the revelation that Daniels knows Walter is David, and that David has basically spilled the beans to company.

But we dont know when the ADVENT Video takes place... unless i missed it...  what i mean is a lot depends on when this Message was sent,  surely not to long after David puts Daniels into Cryo-sleep?

So we dont know what time has passed from the ending of Alien Covenant to when David sends the information, there are flaws in the Advent Video, that potentially could be flaws if they are done lazy.. for instance it depends on how David managed to transmit all those pieces of work.

He had none of his works with him at the end of Alien Covenant apart from the Face Hugger embryos... so he would have had to go back down to the surface to collect some of his works.

UNLESS.... Davids CPU brain captures and uploads all this information and David can thus upload everything he has visually scene and created to the Computer and Transport his information.

This would be the best route to take...

So we get back to what can they do with future movies...

Well i would say the objective is to show us the Space Jockey Fate, its a Question of how much they literally have to show of this in order to please fans....    The Ending of Prometheus we see Dr Shaw has gathered Davids Body and Head and loaded up a ATV Buggy and off she goes heading towards another Engineer Complex.

We then see a Engineer Juggernaught leave LV-223... 

We DO-NOT see David and Shaw find and board a Engineer Ship, we DO-NOT see how David and Shaw operate a Engineer Ship, does David need to be put back together etc...

While we dont see these things, the ending of Prometheus shows us enough so that we KNOW David and Shaw did get to and take off in a Engineer Ship.   The Crossing Prologue gave us more clues about what happened.

But we did not get a Scene for Scene explanation... and so the Question comes to how they answer the SPACE JOCKEY and they dont have to show us a scene by scene event of what went down.

But before we even get to the Point where the Questions in Alien are answered, we have what happens after Alien Covenant...

This is the Tricky Point...

Its how do they tread these steps.... without giving us another recap of ALIEN, or ALIENS or a Alien 3 and Resurrection to a degree.

Does David awake Daniels and try and experiment on her, does he use other Crew and then awakens Daniels so she can see the Horrors that David has created and attempts to escape..

This would just give us a Alien kind of flick, Alien was good, but imagine another sequel where Ripley is alone running from the Alien again?  Would that had worked?  Alien Isolation was similar but it revolved around more than just AMANDA and a XENOMORPH on board a Space Station.

If Daniels awakens other Colonist, or they are awake and a awoken Daniels goes to warn them, then basically we are in for a kind of Alien 3 Meets Alien Resurrection on board the Covenant Ship.

Even if we By-Pass all of this.... much like how Alien Covenant By-passed the events of David and Dr Shaw from Prometheus to Alien Covenant, with only the short Crossing Prologue to fill some Gaps.

If we thus arrive mainly post David arriving at Origae-6 then the kind of Flick we are in for depends on.

1) Is there already a Colony on Origae-6 or some other Race?

2) Does David arrive there and then unleashes his Creations prior to a Colony even being set up?

3) Does David arrive and help the other Colonist (on the Covenant) Set up a Colony as they think he is Walter... which means he would have to cover his tracks regarding the Covenant's arrival and aftermath of Planet 4 which means covering up the event, which does not bold well for Daniels or Tennessee.

I think option 2 would be very limited and again would be like a Alien Resurrection type flick.

Option 1 and 3 are interesting but again how much different would this be to a ALIENS and AVPR (minus Predators) kind of Flick?

So doing something different could be hard, and i think RS will be exploring the AI and David and the conspiracy and agenda behind the W-Y Company, but surely the whole movie can not be about this.. It would have to include the Xenomorph for sure...

I think the movie that comes next does have the potential to be a Re-hash of Aliens to a degree... 

Don't worry! It will be never be explained!

Well a forest would be perfect with a cabin, so FoxBender and Vikander  (in her ex machina costume) could relax by the fireside with a Daniels skin at their feet and Tennessee's head on the wall. That would be awsome!!!!

Lawrence of Arabia

I still have a little hope that David used more black goo or something when he used the xenomorph recipe he stole from the engineers. It is David's highest aspiration to create, even to create the perfect organism, but I believe he learned from the engineers' the ingredients. 

That chestburster he made can be different because it was growing a lot faster, along with the special effects from these days. 

I think its going to be hard really, as we need something Fresh and New, but then Prometheus tried to do this and it did not settle to well with some of the Fanbase.

The ALIEN Franchise is mainly about  a/the ALIEN we can agree on that, i think this is why Prometheus adopted its Title and had no ALIEN: Prefix

Alien: Engineers was also about the Engineers, but it did have Face Huggers and more Xenomorph related Organisms etc.

So having the next movie with a ALIEN: Prefix , could leave them to have to cover the Xenomorph again, as i am sure a movie with a ALIEN Prefix that shows no Xenomorphs or Face Hugging could rub some fans up the wrong way again.... and be faced with criticism from a misleading Title.

So by virtue of having a ALIEN Prefix i dont think we would be expecting something that digs deep into Engineer Mythos and History, it could still have them but it would also still have to be about the Xenomorph too.

Its going to be hard to bring in something fresh, i think the Engineers and their connection with the Black Goo and LV-223 is something that could and should be explored... but we also have the LV-426 Cargo and the Engineers connection, because ultimately it is a Engineer (or their Creators) Ship that ends up on LV-426 and the Pilot has to be connected to them... as i just dont think Fans would be pleased the Space Jockey is a Human or a Synthetic Android.

I think ultimately this is where they are heading, towards bringing in the Engineers and History to a degree, and also showing us a Engineer or connected Race ending up with that Cargo on one of its Ships.

I think indeed visiting other Engineer Worlds, or even a Xenomorph Homeworld would be interesting, its a case of will we see a movie dedicated solely to these?

I think not as far as the next Installment.

Ati at first I thought Joylitt posted this thread. Are you switching sides?

daliens

I believe the difference between the chestbursters is simply because of the better effects available today as opposed to back then. I made a post on this but when the creature first bursts from Oram it looks like the Nymph but evolves on-screen to a more adult like form. The next film could rectify this but this is what I believe.

I remember in the novelization David said he took from engineers the desiccated egg now in his lab, that it contained a highly aggressive facehugger and he had to euthanize. He specifically mentioned the egg was the result of thousands of years of engineers experiments and their advanced knowledge.

Unfortunately this was not in the film.

We still have to find out why the difference between the 2 chestbursters, there must be some reason to that.

hox

Everyone forgets this for Rosie's actions. They act like she just ran off willy nilly but she asked David if they were safe and he said perfectly to which he ended with "Make yourselves at home, as much as you are able, in this dire necropolis.". Even when she went to clean up, after telling everyone she would, she had her gun unholstered.

I don't see the big deal about the chestburster. It looked disturbing either way it's just a different shape. I mean, seeing the chestburster evolve from Nymph to baby adult, unfolding with gory detail, was just as disturbing imo. The mimicry of David was a display of intelligence and a moment between creator/creation.

“I think the last two movies have had too many similarities to bad Friday the 13th sequels and not enough similarities to good Alien movies,” Fuller said. He clarified that Prometheus and Covenant were “so masterfully executed on a technical level, gorgeously composed and produced,” but his frustrations come down to one fundamental issue: “really smart characters doing really stupid things.”

I don't understand the Friday the 13th comment since the plots of both films are extremely similar to the first two Alien films. I mean, I get the character logic comment (not really) but these characters aren't aware they are in an Alien movie, have never encountered anything like this, and they are like this on purpose as metaphors for humanity's hubris and illogicality (which is the case in every Alien film). Plus if they were "smart", they wouldn't be in these situations or be killed for our viewing pleasure. Fear is also a big factor as well as it distorts logic.

Sackhoff would be a interesting Actress to use, i think she could play well as a member of the Company Ship that is incoming and she then realizes the risks and evil in the pursuit of her Companies Plans, and she tries to Sabotage it, and prevent the Company and David obtaining the Xenomorph.

I dont think they need to re-cast Daniels, if they are going to use Daniels in the next movie then indeed they have to use Waterston and i think she would be interested in reprising her role..

A lot depends on what PLOT they have in store for Daniels.. as the Ending does leave it unlikely Daniels can be allowed to survive this movie.  Thet Set-up they have for the next movie does kind of Limit what can be done with Daniels Character.

If the movie ended where she was non the wise about WALTER, then indeed she could have played a larger role... and one where she uncovers the Truth during the Movie.

The way it ended now....  How does David keep Daniels on ICE and awake other members of the crew and explain where Daniels is, especially to Tennessee, sorry but the way its been done only leaves it Logical for Tennessee and Daniels to not last long.

Do they have a Plot where David, Daniels and Tennessee are on the ship... i think this would not be the case for the same reasons that FOX maybe thought a movie that would revolve mainly around David and Dr Shaw for most of the movie would not make a Good one.

And so....

Looking a the potential Plot having Daniels and Tennessee  awake and interact with other Crew does make for a limited Plot, or one where the awoken crew and Daniels with Tennessee must try and escape the Horrors of David and his Creations on the Covenant ship.  This would just give us a kind of ALIEN Meets Alien Resurrection kind of a Flick.

Also looking at how they are setting up the movies to eventually lead to ALIEN and how David is off to Origae-6 we assume, i cant see them having a movie that covers a lot of shenanigans on board the Covenant

so Sadly i think Daniels and Tennessee will maybe play a short role, maybe as Flash Backs.

I disagree with Bryan Fuller's assessment. There is little evidence of smart people doing dumb things in Covenant. Everything is done for a reason. In fact, in this movie they really went out of their way to ensure that actions were based on logic. Rosie going off to get her head chomped off, for instance. Dumb? Or in fact someone who had put their trust in the comforting words of an advanced robot?

Anyway, Bryan is hardly one to speak. His endless Hannibal episodes were almost interminably drawn out and repetitive.

I would have to say very Valid Points...

Some Stupid things are needed to pass along a Plot Device however...

I would say the Nostromos Plan to deal with the Xenomorph had flaws...   And letting a infected Crew on-board was SILLY... but in Alien it was a Masterpiece of writing as we see while Ripley wanted to Safeguard Quarantine Protocols...  ASH who was latter revealed to be a Android with a Inside Mission (Special Order 937) had let the infected Crewman on-board for the whole Agenda or his SO 937 Objective.

Aliens is also not without its own flaws as far as risks taken against precautions but again it was not as poorly handled as the Bad Errors of Judgement/Precaution shown in Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

The Chest Buster again a good point, it looked a bit silly, like the Xenomorph was copying David, and i know this upset a number of FANS...   But ultimately i looked at this Scene as a way to showcase that David was the Creator..

The Chest Buster was operated like a Rod Puppet... and in the movie it appeared to copy David just as if he was operating the Xenomorph as a Puppet and i think the AIM was EXACTLY this.. so we see that David was the PUPPET MASTER of his Creation so to speak.

Thats how i interpret this scene...  which if that is the case, i can understand the reason for it, but in hindsight it did not look right and left questions about how come latter Xenomorphs do not look the same way i.e like minature versions of the Adults.

This would fit in well if David was simply Evolving the Engineers Creation, or if David had Evolved his Creation and so previous ones looked more like the 1979 Xenomorphs (there is even the classic Egg and Chest Buster in some of Davids works in the Lab).. but i think this again was a error of judgement by those working on the movie.. and maybe these were only intended as Easter Eggs..

This location is very good, and with work by artist like Wayne Haagg the almost MARS like Landscape can be transformed into something like we see on LV-223 and indeed LV-426

If we look past the Procreation in Alien DC and Aliens then the only options left for David would be experimentation.

Can David and does he have the Technology on the Covenant to extract and manipulate Face Hugger DNA and somehow either CLONE the Face Huggers or Manipulate/Merge DNA from one with a Human Host?

If David can extract Face Hugger DNA and Splice it, then this opens up the realm for one of these TWO options.

4) Extract and Splice Face Hugger DNA into those other Embryos so they either evolve into a Face Hugger, a Xenomorph or a Hybrid Organism.

5) Splice the Face Hugger DNA with Human DNA to either create a Hybrid, that maybe can procreate (Eggs) or that the DNA can man infect a Humans Egg Cells to create Xenomorphs or Face Huggers.

When we look into Davids Comments about needing his Queen, and look at what Fate is laid for Daniels...  and considering Dr Shaws Fate then indeed Answer number 5 makes some sense.

There is another route connected that we shall call Option

6) That extracting from a Face Hugger Embryo David can obtain the DNA that acts like a Virus or he can extract a Xeno-virus from these Face Huggers...  With this he can then perform similar to 4 and 5.

The Final options for David... would require him to go back to Planet 4, one of which would be obtain more Eggs and Spores.

The other would be to obtain some Black Goo...

We CAN-NOT rule out David had brought a Glass Vial of Black Goo with him to the Covenant, it would have taken him time to get the Embryos but he managed that... surely a quick grab and he could obtain the BLACK GOO so option

7) would be the Black Goo, and this Tool would allow David many ways to experiment and facilitate many creations, the Black Goo would certainly provide a way to Extract Face Hugger DNA and use it to infect Embryos/Humans.   Or even just use the Black Goo on Humans/Embryos but we have to ASSUME Davids Face Huggers are the greatest Stages of his Experiments and doing the above would be back to Square ONE..   But mixing the Black Goo with Davids Face Huggers would allow him to utilize a lot of his latest creations DNA.

Again option 7 the Black Goo would provide a means for David to create his Queen, in the same manner of how Dr Shaw was most likely used to allow David to created those Eggs.

This is a interesting Question and one i have covered a few times a number of Months Back..

Here are the Logical Options knowing what we know regarding the Franchise.

1) The Queen, in Aliens we have a Queen that lays Eggs, the Question is how do we get to a Queen? This could be something they could tackle in the next movie, i know RS wanted to explore his own Vision the Egg Morph, but i think he saw the Queen as a Ideal Evolution. The Question is does RS go the Queen Route, or are his Hands Tied by FOX?  As Alien Covenant was tailored to please the Alien Fanboys who was disappointed with Prometheus. 

The Problem is we have never seen how a Queen comes to be, this however is also a Big Question and it would be interesting how this is shown if they go this route.   A Lazy Shoe-horn route would be Face Hugger + Female = Egg Laying Xenomorph but then why not many Queens from Females?  Maybe some kind of Hormone/Pheromone is released once a Hive is set up so that a Once a Queen is established Female Infected Hosts will not produce more Queens.

2) Egg Morph, indeed this was the Original Intention, but it is a flawed Procreation Concept, as far as compared to a Egg Laying Queen.  Two Face Huggers that become TWO Xenomorphs that go around Egg Morphing Hosts until David has many Eggs is surely a long winded way for David to obtain Eggs..

A Queen however could lay loads of Eggs, where David could have the Queen Contained...  Also the 1979 Egg Morph we see the Eggs are much Larger than those in Aliens, maybe these Egg Morph Eggs Shrink?  as in AC we see smaller Eggs that may grow.

3) The Combination of the first TWO... in that a Egg Morph is what leads to a Royal Face Hugger or a Actual Queen Organism,  if we consider Alien 3 however then there is a Queen Embryo inside of Ripley, and thus has to be a Royal Face Hugger. (or as per 1, a Female Gestates a Queen).  

When looking and also debating the Subject of Queen vs Egg Morph, i had discussed and i think it makes logical sense that a Egg Morph is the route to a Queen.  Thus it would explain in ALIEN why the Xenomorph did not just capture all the crew so he would have had Dallas, Brett, Parker and Lambert and thus either 4 X Eggs or 2X Eggs and 2 X Hosts.  If the Egg Morph leads to a Queen then the Alien would only need ONE Egg Host and ONE Host for the Face Hugger that comes from the Egg Morph.

The Problem with this is again, multiple Queens, which again Maybe some kind of Hormone/Pheromone is released once a Hive is set up so that a Once a Queen is established Female Infected Hosts will not produce more Queens.