Comments (Page 302)

dk And hasn't the Alien community screw itself over?

HD remaster of an anti-capitalist punk album? Yes that would make us good consumers of revolt... 

Penis Landscape, or Work 219, most notably included as art work in a Dead Kennedys album and led to a shit storm in the mid 1980s (yes, I own a copy), could benefit from an HD update with some slithering and audio. It would be very explicit but that would be the point. Jello Biafra's rationale for using the work was to illustrate how we are all basically screwing ourselves- but there is one penis in the pic that is wearing a condom! 

Vulgarity spoilers!!!! But(t) when can we receive a reinterpretation of the Penis Landscape using Ridley, Hallet, Hagg and Scott jr as protagonists, and featuring alien heads and inner mouths as said Ps. 

Regarding the band itself, another black metal outfit obsessed with morbid things. Great, as if we don't have enough of those? Yawn...

Interesting. If the Xenomorph is the PERFECT organism, that seems to say it needs no more evolution or even a need to propagate. Indeed, we don't see it actually die in the first two movies. It seems important to ask what is perfection. Ash gave its take in Alien (yes, it and not he), but there can be different interpretations of perfection. I would say that there is no such thing as perfection- only the pursuit of it. That would mean that the Xenomorph could continue to evolve in a myriad of ways like Gavin mentioned.

@daliens,

Don't get me wrong. My assertions of Scott's mistakes in Aliens was not an inference that Cameron's film was flawless. The scene you mention in the airlock is, as you pointed out preposterous at best, as is the Queen fitting snuggly in the rear compartment of the drop-ship, or that some fans contest that these Marines were purposefully selected to fail, or Newts consistent ear-piercing screams.

I sense a deep detraction towards Aliens, and a great love towards Alien, which is, of course, your prerogative. But the adoption of genetic traits, a theme you seem to be against is evident in Alien. Big Chaps humanoid form is not only clearly acquired from its host, Kane, but the creature also features a human skull within its carapace. The adoption of genetic traits has been used questionably since (flying Aliens, gorilla Aliens etc.), but it was Ash who described it best when referring to the Facehuggers skin adapting to the environment. Additions to the base Xenomorph form such as the ability to breathe the native atmosphere, run faster, swim better etc. allow the Xenomorph to adapt and evolve. This has since been elaborated in Prometheus and Covenant, showing that the Xenomorph adaptive skills allow for other forms of propagation, of which the Queen route, though the most explored in mainstream media, is but one method - we have egg morphing, we have host born trilobites, we have contaminated fungal spores. The adoption of a host's or an ecosystems genetic traits allows for endless adaptive possibilities, exemplifying the creatures perfection.

It is my belief that the Jordens in Aliens did not find the Egg Silo Kane discovered, but instead found another cache of eggs within the derelict Juggernaut and that as such the Aliens were of a different "breed" than those within the Egg Silo.

@BigDave,

Following on from that point is where I feel the future of the franchise lies. The beast as we know it is cooked. A repeat of Alien and/or Aliens would be derivative, what audiences need is uncertainty, fear of the unknown. To achieve this within the Alien franchise the Beast need to adapt and evolve, cinematically at least.

One possibility could be that the host becomes the Xenomorph removing all need for chestbursters, as was originally Fifield's fate and was hinted at in some concept art (see above and below).

As for the larger picture, the overarching mythology maybe Scott should make a film about David, linking the Alien and Blade Runner franchises together, while a more capable director such as David Fincher (unlikely, I know), Guillermo del Toro or Denis Villeneuve should take on Paradise as a prequel to Covenant, and sequel to Prometheus - showing that before arriving at Planet 4 Shaw and David did indeed find their answers and that maybe Shaws demise was of her own design, not David's (loss of faith from learning the truth).

Looks amazing BigDave!

I would totally love Dane Hallet to do artwork for my band!!

Thanks Big Dave- I like the variations of Li especially the first one.

And BigDave maybe it's time to have a talk with the xenomorph, like David tried to tame the neomorph and imprint on the baby xeno. I think this need to see them as intelligent creatures, able to communicate was the reason to change the shape of the chestburster in Alien  Covenant. 

BigDave I don't see the point of having a queen and mass production of eggs, unless you see the xenomorphs like bugs and you need them by thousands for a shooting spree.

And after seeing The Predator I can associate the alien queen to the ultimate predator. Any movie that features a queen is a dumb movie with lots of xenomorphs as cannon meat, lots of bullets and dumb macho jokes in between shootings.

And if you say queen is evolution for xenomorph, what is that Predalien abomination?

The xenomorph does not need evolution, it is a biomechanical perfect organism. They may be not reproducing like rabbits, but who needs that?

A xenomorph that can insert a fertilized egg into the body of a living host and either immobilize the victim through egg morphing or just make it unaware, like Kane was after being facehugged, will manage without an egg laying queen.

I know David mentions a queen in Advent but I am pretty convinced it's a queen different from what we've seen so far.

Awesome BigDave! Thanks for sharing! I love Dane's work, always great to see new material!

I think its just a case of a lot of changing of their minds as they go along instead of having a A-Z Plot and Explanation even if they dont reveal every aspect as long as those working on it have such ideas already discussed.

I am not sure what Blomkamp could bring to the Franchise if he was to tackle the Prequels...  His ideas in ALIEN 5 seemed interesting to a degree... i just think he could set such a Plot after the Events of ALIEN: Resurrection or certainly the time between Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection and NOT resurrect Ripley, Newt and Hicks!

Exploring a Evolving/Mutating Ripley 8 could be interesting or what happens to her after Alien Resurrection, does she DIE? Get Killed?  and if so WHAT becomes of her Remains...  has someone obtained her DNA and we then START off from this Perspective?

I actually had a ALIEN 5 Plot idea... where Call is revealed to have secretly been sent to OBTAIN the Evolved Ripley 8 for the Benefit her the AUTON CULT

We can CGI overlay Miss Weaver to get results like Image A, but only for a Short Scene, as we reveal she is starting to EVOLVE as the Xenomorph DNA starts to Re-write her Human DNA, we then progress to her Skin becoming Grey and like Holloways in Image B and she could be played like this for Longer where Make-Up can hide her AGE... she then has some other changes like Image C before she Progresses to a Cross Between Image D and E but more Organic, and having some Resemblance to Miss Weaver.

Autons Capture her and use her DNA to create a new version of Xenomorph...  she breaks loose EVOLVES, and prevents the Xenomorphs from getting a Foot-Hold and saves the Day....

Before she starts to Battle with her Xenomorph DNA and how it is changing her more than in Physical Appearance where she worries about what happens when all HUMANITY has been removed/rewritten from her.. 

Plus the Knowledge of WHAT happens if she is ever captured or a sample is once again OBTAINED...

She Sacrifices herself... giving her another Fitting End.

I Moon Girl I cut cable about a decade ago. Unless it has changed, I would not want to watch a show interrupted by commercials espousing the virtues of Hot Pockets or Pop Tarts. I would wager Raised by Wolves or an Alien based series would be on a streaming channel.

Maybe Kevin Costner

Certainly... maybe the Battle with Religion, leads to the Androids to FLOOD the World of those pesky Humans ;)

Thanks for the Share....

Thats a pretty Good Attempt of a Pulse Riffle.

The Franchise does not have to be Restricted to the Xenomorph, especially when it is just a Bio-Weapon that was Re-Engineered and Evolved by a Android.

We have....

*Peter Weyland... his History and what else had he been doing apart from Pursuit of Immortality and Creating a Android in his own image.

*The Weyland Company... what else have they been up to and done apart from create our not so Beloved David and constantly pursue the Folly that is the Xenomorph?

*The Yutani Company... again what else are they up to, what conflicts/rivalry have they with Weyland Industries and HOW did the Merger Come About.

*The impact of AI and Rivalry to obtain/create the Perfect AI Machine.... HOW many Failures before Perfection... what IMPACT is the Pursuit of a AI so Advanced it develops Emotions.

*The Engineers... do we see more of their History but we need Human Characters, so do we see Engineers in our Ancient Past?  do we go to another World where the Engineers interact with another group of Humans Far Far away.

*The Marines... do we explore some of their Adventures, what other Conflicts have they been involved in... will we see some Arcturian Poontang and what is a previous BUG HUNT.

All of these dont touch upon the Xenomorph, the events of Prometheus to Alien Covenant where those Events had led to the Creation of the Xenomorph and the potential return of some VERY Angry Engineers..... which could CONFLICT with the original Movies as far as in-continuity.

If we go for anything related to the ALIEN Franchise and Xenomorph then what are the Options?

*Investigate LV-223.... what becomes of this place by the time of ALIEN but then maybe this would have been covered in the next 1-2 installments of the Prequels.

*A mission to Planet 4 and what happens to this place.. again just as above maybe this would be covered/concluded by the next 1-2 installments of the Prequels.

*Visit Origae-6 after the events of the Prequels... but again maybe there is NOTHING left once the next 1-2 installments of the Prequels had concluded.

Which then brings us to other options...

*Show what happened on Hadleys Hope the events from when/just before the Jorden's Discover the Derelict until when only NEWT is the last Survivor and the company looses contact with Hadleys Hope.   But this could be a bit of a Alien Covenant, meets Alien 3 meets Aliens.  or a AVPR on Hadleys Hope minus Predators.

*Go back to the Derelict after the events of ALIEN or prior, but this could again bring us to another Alien, Alien Covenant etc etc.

*Explore some other place where Xenomorphs are.  which could be again like the other Franchise Movies... or even Alien Isolation... there is still SCOPE that this could be worth exploring but then its a case of HOW does this NOT conflict with the Alien Franchise and WHY the company pursues the Xenomorph via the Derelict and then Ripley.

*A Continuation of the events after Alien Resurrection. This is maybe the most interesting avenue to explore... that does not have to be about Ripley or the Xenomorph in much detail and could indeed bring about the Cult that the Autons have, the struggle/conflict on Earth...  Not only between Humanity, but also AI which is not limited to just the Weyland-Yutani Synthetics, but also the Autons... all struggling for Domination of the Earth.

What role would obtaining any remnants of Xenomorph DNA have... and WHAT if the Engineers Return!

First i will add that maybe this information could be about the "Raised by Wolves" TV Series?  If weeks/months ago some of the details about this was released.... a Sci-Fi by RS that follows a Colony of Children having to be raised by Androids.. you could be forgiven for thinking its set in the ALIEN universe.

"When universes are as rich as Alien, they can stay in a too familiar groove - in which case you're in trouble - but they can also find a planet or a storyline or a villain that also lives in that universe that can be groundbreaking."

This seems to add up with the comments RS had made after Alien Covenant and its back-lash.... comments about the next stage in the Story would be more about AI, comments about how RS felt he was ahead of the CURVE with Prometheus.

The Problem is for all the ideas about Gods/Creation all the Philosophy that Prometheus showed and is kind of embedded in Alien Covenant too, that when you look at the other Back Ground Plot (apart from Xenomorphs and Ripley) in Alien Resurrection we can see those Prometheus Themes were at play in Alien Resurrection if you looked beyond Xenomorphs and Ripley

But the Problem we have is any ALIEN Universe Movie would be expected to introduce Xenomorphs.. at very least... Fans would in General want Xenomorphs more than AI, than Engineers, than the Company...  some may even want Ripley tie-ins?

But then its HOW do we introduce the Xenomorph, when it had been overdone.... diluted with the AVP movies, maybe more so with Alien Covenant...  Especially for a TV Series!

I think we can look to the WALKING DEAD for inspiration/evidence that there is only so much running away from Zombies and getting infected by Zombies before it gets STALE! the Same could apply with replacing Zombies with Xenomorphs..   It was the Plot Twists... the Struggle of the Characters that would make a TV Series like WALKING DEAD manage to spew out season after season, where the Struggle of Characters and Reveal that its the Humans vs Humans that is the biggest threat is something that carried the Franchise. But even WALKING DEAD is running out of Steam and Ideas...

This point is kind of similar to HOW we have Ridley Scott feel the reveal that the Xenomorph was a Result of Mankind trying to play God by creating LIFE in our Own Image and then Stupid enough to take this Superior being along for the Ride to meet our own Makers.... leaving David free to exploit the Engineers Secrets to create the Xenomorph.

This Hubris is something Echoed by the Engineers, its something we see had impacted even the Synthetics with their Creation of the AUTONS....  

But its hard for Fans to accept other aspects of the ALIEN Franchise, apart from the Xenomorph.  Which indeed it has to play a Role or at least a Variant of it...   The WALKING DEAD does go back and bring in Zombies over and over but they are reduced to a less role and NOT constantly forced in our Faces.

We could have 3-4 more ALIEN movies or a Series or TWO of the ALIEN Franchise, but if these Movies/TV Series Feature the Xenomorph as much as the ORIGINAL Franchise (Alien ==> Alien Resurrection)  the Danger is we will OVERCOOK the Xenomorph where it becomes Un-scary and Insignificant or just overdone so we get sick of it.

"too familiar groove - in which case you're in trouble"

Seems like they realize that you cant go repeating the same kind of Alien Tropes .... Humans Discover Eggs... Xenomorphs unleashed.... reveal the Company or some one else had taken those Humans there to deliberately obtain the Xenomorph.

Sometimes we also have to ASK.... should some things be left to REST?  I will take the ASH vs Evil Dead TV Series..  The Movies where Great the First TWO that is before the 3rd was well a bit of a let down (sound familiar?)

It was left in the DARK for many years... then we get a TV Series and at first it was kinda COOL, kinda Nostalgic then they had to introduce a few NEW things to expand on the Mythos... and well it then started to get STALE!

To the point that in HINDSIGHT it may have put a damper on what was viewed as a Good Movie Series.

"I like to keep it as a perfect organism with acid for blood and taking traits from its host does not mean evolution (it is already perfect)."

It was ASH who claimed this, we see with Prometheus a theme of the Pursuit of Perfection, this does not mean gaining Perfection though.  In the Bible.. GOD refers to Lucifer as PERFECT and then Adam too... yet they both had Flaws, related to Knowledge and becoming Sentient.

If the Xenomorph was PERFECT it would not need a Host, it would not need a Queen.  I think the taking on Traits of a Host would make sense to allow a Organism to Adapt to what ever Environment it is required.   If we look at the Engineers as Genetic Space Gardeners, we could maybe assume they would be trying to Pursue Perfection, maybe this is what lead to their Fall and the LV-223 Engineers Bio-Technology which produced a undesired result a result maybe they then Worshiped?

It appears David was trying to incorporate whatever traits from various Organisms to Produce his desired Xenomorph.

Evolution is something that maybe NEVER stops, when a situation arrives where a Organism would need additional traits/mutations to Progress then these would occur over time.

So regarding the Xenomorph, i think yes at some-point we could see it Evolve to find another means of Procreation. I think the Imagination and Scope of the Beast allows us to introduce some very Interesting New Methods....  take the Neomorph for example...   WHY-NOT introduce a Xenomorph Evolution that can Directly infect a Host with a form of Procreation like the Neomorph Spores did? This would still not be Perfect as it still requires a Host.

"He never said xenomorph is a big  bug"

Ridley Scott has said and i think he also said this before Camerons Aliens... that the Xenomorph was designed and inspired by traits of Insects and also Reptilian it was a ALIEN Organism that had some traits of those but also very Human traits too.

The Queen makes sense as far as a Evolutionary Step to the Xenomorph, if we go by the DC Cut of ALIEN and Starbeast.  When i looked at the Egg Morph scene in ALIEN DC i felt it would be a more Logical way to Produce/Obtain a Queen.  I think a Queen makes sense, i also think we dont need any other Organisms to Evolve upon that such as a KING as i think a Queen that can Procreate without the need for any Fertilization of her Eggs makes a more PERFECT Procreation.

However... a Evolutionary KING like Organism that can directly infect Hosts with something that results in something like a Chest Buster or say like the Neomorph infection would be a Evolutionary Upgrade to the Egg => Face Hugger => Host => Chest Buster Cycle.

@Gavin

I will add that indeed despite what ever RS has said, the Movies Dont-Show us that these Engineers are Highly Advanced, well there is nothing to suggest they are GIFTED the use of this Technology by other BEINGS..  and so anything can be explored or Changed...  and so you MAKE a interesting point regarding the Sacrificial Scene.

By virtue of watching the Movies alone... this Scene is not SPOON-FED explained that its how the Engineers Seeded Worlds to create Mankind.    So it COULD be a Engineer Seeding himself to Spread the Black Goo onto a World..

I would ask WHY not use the Juggernauts though?  A explanation was they became a latter more Efficient way to Spread the Xenomorph, and the Sacrificial Scene was set Many Many years before the Juggernaught Technology.

@daliens

Many other works in the Franchise which include Comics have hinted the Xenomorph does take on some of the Traits of the Host, we even see the AVP Franchise use this with the PREDALIEN, be it the Movie, Games or Comics. 

The Runner did Evolve/Grow into something that had more of a Bi-Pedal Stance though, the movie uses a combination of Effects inc Puppets, CGI and the Man in a Suit... at which the Man in a Suit looks much more like our Alien/Aliens Xenomorphs... so maybe as they GROW they revert back to the Bi-Pedal Xenomorph appearance.

"But why destroy the Earth when they can get a good harvest of hosts from it"

Gavin had answered that for you, and indeed we could assume the Black Goo Bombardment would Destroy Life but from this would RISE new life that is connected to the Xeno-Virus just as the Neomorph Spores are.... as David said "sometimes to create one must first destroy"

I will add i have always found the Egg Cargo/Bomber explanation a bit of a Flawed Weapon as far as HOW we assume the Derelict Delivered its Pay-Load....  It is more Logical in LINE with a Theory Gavin has posted a few times, that they Harvest the Eggs from Worlds...  so the Black Goo is the SEED and the Eggs are the Harvest and so those Eggs are NOT being used to Bombard anyplace... they are being collected to be taken to some place.  I mean how would Eggs Survive being Dropped?  And taking them down one by one to a Hostile World does not make much Sense.  But taking them to a place where Sacrificial Hosts are obtained and Stored in some Place to Perform Rituals where Eggs are brought from the Ships and taken to a Sacrificial Chamber makes more sense.

"Nobody could ever reasonably explain (except if they were smuggled for the black market) the thousands of eggs on an engineer ship"

Its one of those things that has Changed over Time...

The Starbeast Plot was showing a Giant Alien Race had came across the Egg Pyramid and was taking samples back to their Derelict Ship. IF we took a continuation of that PLOT and said the Space Jockey was that Giant Race, then it would imply the Space Jockey had loaded up the Egg Cargo... before ONE got to him.   The Eggs Originating from a Separate Pyramid Complex and came as the Final Stage of the Starbeast Life Cycle... via a Egg-Morph.

HR Giger had envisioned that the Egg Silo/Cargo Hold actually Produced the Eggs via some Bio-Mechanical Pregnant Belly (indicated by his Mural) which was to be placed above the area these Bio-Mechanical Apparatus were located.

Ridley Scott kept things ambiguous only that the Egg Chamber as a Cargo Hold with NO indication of where those Eggs came from or HOW they got there, but that they was used as a Bio-Weapon by the Space Jockey Race.

After Prometheus he had informed us that the Egg Cargo is related to the Experiments on LV-223 and something had Evolved in the Cargo Hold... indicating they was a Evolution from the Black Goo or got there by something that had Evolved from the Black Goo.

But it now appears the IDEA is that before Davids Experiments on Planet 4, there was NO Eggs on the Derelict and we are on a Journey towards finding out HOW/WHEN those Eggs get on the Derelict... where we require Davids Creation to EVOLVE a little and end up on a Engineer Ship that ends up in the Vicinity of LV-223. at some point in the next 17 Years after David places his Face Hugger Embryo's with the Human Ones on the Covenant.

And indeed that is maybe not the ideal route most fans would like to have seen.... maybe it can be changed?

Dual action. "I like to keep this handy for close encounters."

@Gavin

I can see where you are coming from and INDEED the whole Path/Puzzle that we are now likely heading for (Upset/Crazed Android with a God Complex Creates the Xenomorph by using some Bio-Weapon Mutagen our Would-Be CREATORS had intended for us), is certainly not as ALIEN as our Imaginations may have Pondered in the 80's and 90's or indeed even when the NEWS broke that we would be getting a PREQUEL..

My ideas i was proposing may have been a little LONG-WINDED so here is a Short Version ;)

I think the Engineers may-not be everyone's Cup of Tea especially the Planet 4 Engineers  it seems we are steering towards something far less HR Giger i think that we can Question where the Engineers got their Bio-Technology from and Secrets... the reveal of Planet 4 is NOTHING like what the the Surreal Derelict looked like, with Alien Covenant our Engineers look more Questionable as these Would-Be GODS that Prometheus had alluded too.

When we look at HR Gigers Mural

It seems to indicate something related to the Xenomorph via some like Worm-like Organism... Produces the Eggs and the Xenomorph like Depiction appears to resemble the Derelict  and we see some Space Suited Bi-Pedal Beings (not dissimilar to the Space Jockey) Self Sacrificing ONE of themselves to Procreate the Xenomorph

I think going back to some of HR Gigers ideas/concepts and going back to the STARBEAST to introduce a NEW Species that have FORMED some kind of Symbiotic Covenant with the STARBEAST or are being Enslaved to Perform these Rituals or Brainwashed to do this for some Religious/Ritual Purpose is something we should CONSIDER... if we can get back to something more ALIEN

The STARBEAST would require HOSTS and maybe for some reason they have Chosen Humanoids to be these IDEAL Hosts..  So i was thinking about WHY would the STARBEAST seem to form some kind of Relationship with these Humanoids, instead of using any HOST and also ASK what do these Humanoids Gain and for what Reason would they be WILLING to Sacrifice themselves or are they NOT so Willing?

So indeed introducing some that Genetically well that shares the Aesthetic of the Xenomorph as some more like GOD Power/Race that had Enslaved/Used the Engineers or their Elders to Procreate their own STARBEAST Species is something i think would be ideal and more ALIEN

I think this is more fitting with STARBEAST and HR Gigers Surreal Concepts.   The STARBEAST does-not have to be the Xenomorph but it should share some Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic, the STARBEAST should be the ones behind the Original Derelict ships and the Black Goo

The Engineers revealed as Rebelling (or a Faction) and Stealing the Technology could be brought in to fit with the whole PROMETHEUS Mythos.

So your ideas about the Xenomorph Spreading by the Derelict/Juggernauts as some Master Race Plot, is kind of similar and i can picture this kind of thing had been happening throughout the Galaxy or Galaxies...

But i think we have to Wonder where have these STARBEAST or Xenomorphs been? In context to our Planet Earth and the Galaxy Mankind has Explored...  If the Engineers play such a LESSER Role as only being used/ordered by these Xenomorphs... then we have to wonder why the Destruction of Earth/Seeding Xenomorphs was abandoned and our Planet 4 Engineers had not continued with this..

The VASTNESS of Space could be used to explain in part this..  a theory/idea as you have GAVIN is interesting as it would suggest the Galaxy is Infested with Xenomorphs they are busy Procreating on Many Many Worlds, that Mankind has only Delayed the Inevitable Time when those in POWER Return and have Questions for what the HELL has happened to the Plans for Earth, LV-223 and those Engineers on Planet 4.

I think we definitely need something more ALIEN than our very Humanoid Engineers, where the Xenomorph is just a Evolution of a Weapon those Engineers Created to use on Unruly/Disappointing Creations.

I think HOWEVER... there is scope to introduce something ALIEN but a little different than Xenomorphs, because and this is just my Opinion i think the Xenomorphs/Queens have been done to death a bit and been diluted down, that maybe something a it different is required.... but maybe a REVEAL about the Xenomorphs being more Intelligent and creating their own Various Space Ships and other kinds of Bio-Mechanical Technology could work?

It is HOWEVER a Plot that had been STOLEN and covered by the Warhammer 40K Universe TYRANIDS but maybe something like this could work?  I mean those Tyranids did use Bald Humanoids as some kind of Cult (Broodcoven) that Follow and Assist their Bio-Mechanical Masters... even as far as Sacrificing themselves and also becoming Hybrids.

The comment about the streaming service is important and I hope fox is listening.  I might sign up if the show was interesting but I don't it.  There are too many services right now and I'm not even signed up for the one hosting the new Star Trek series.  

For me the AI idea is a non-starter.  IF they can write into it the Engineers, the alien and humans into something new and interesting you'd have a winner.  I think the Engineers are fertile ground to be explored, meaning a species that dislikes humans or any other species it has created and decides to uncreate.

So they knew the potential of the facehugger embryos. And they had an insider at Weyland Co. who sold them the remote. That sounds like a conspiracy. 

If I may, in order to corroborate certain aspect, can somebody explain the title of the Prometheus. The myth. Whose actions are Promethean? And how?

This is not a trick question, I just suspect that this is actually not as trivial and actually needs to be grounded.

217 enters the crew deck and drops David. 2nd is standing near a hypersleep chamber.

217 “What’s up?”

2nd “Can’t find captain Branson”,”looks like most of the crew is missing...just these two”  pointing at Daniels and Tennessee.

217 “My, my...just what have we been up to..” looking at David,  “...Continue searching, I’ll wake one of the crew...”

2nd  “Wake the woman..she’s pretty! Been awhile since I had a warm one... ”

217 “...Well... that decides it” , “I’m waking beardie”

2nd man... disappointed...continues his search.

217 wakes Tennessee. He is groggy and vomits. Finally composing himself…

Tennessee “..What is this..”, “Who are you…?” ,Tennessee notices David laying crumpled on the deck,  “What have you done to Walter?”

217 “My turn” , “Perhaps you tell me what happened to captain Branson?”, he menaces Tennessee with the pulse rifle

Tennessee still dazed,  “Whoa...what..weapons don’t work on..”

217 “Well, this one does…”

Tennessee sizes him....big muscular...crew cut...wearing a nameless hypersleep outfit.

Tennessee “You’re a colonist? How..who.. ?”

217 “Goddammit,  you tell me what happened here, or I’ll shoot you and wake the other”

Tennessee glances at Daniel’s unopened chamber

 “Okay..okay..let me think a bit...little hazy at the moment..” ,  ”..uh..Had a storm of some kind...killed the captain, some colonists..umm..got a message..signal...from a planet” ,  “Can I have some water...kinda dry” 217 stares at him “Uhh guess that’s a no”

Tennessee “Look if I tell you this, you’ll get back to your chamber?”

217 “Yes...now continue…”

Suddenly the 2nd man shouts in his earpiece..

2nd “Jackpot! Holy shit” , “We’re rich!”

217 “What’s that? Where..”

2nd “Colony embryo chamber…...you gotta see this”

217 motions for Tennessee to lead the way…

Tennessee enters the embryo room with 217 in tow. He sizes up the 2nd man. A bit smaller, but not by much. Just as sinister and also holding a pulse rifle.

217 “Take him”  2nd gathers Tennessee,  then motions towards the embryo locker. One of the trays is extended.

2nd smiling “Examine it..notice anything?”

217 is speechless. He finds the alien embryo. Knows this is worth more than anything they could ‘ghost’ from the colony.

217 showing Tennessee the embryo  “What is this...Where did it come from?!”

Tennessee truthfully declares “Never….never seen that before..must have..” he realizes someone brought that aboard the Covenant…Lope?

217 “Must have what?”

Tennessee “You need to wake Walter...he..he can explain..”

217 “If you don’t tell me...I’m gonna put you in an airlock and play depressurization games…”

Tennessee realizes the colonists are going to find out most of this story when they reach Origae anyway, so....

Tennessee “That signal...I told you about? Came from a system nearby ...captain Oram decided to follow it...We..” Tennessee thinks about his wife..”..visited the planet..the fourth one….using the drop ship...I really don’t..I wasn’t..I stayed on the Covenant….Walter was there...He was on the surface..Dan…” Tennessee decides not to involve Daniels

We've seen in Alien Resurrection that xenomorphs' reliance on hosts isn't but a temporary element of their lifecycle, when the queen gave birth to that monstrosity, but the queen had its DNA mixed with that of Ripley's. I do not like that outcome that's why I say the xenomorph need not the DNA of its hosts. Didn't they used cows as hosts in Starbeast, without the risk of growing an udder?

I like to keep it as a perfect organism with acid for blood and taking traits from its host does not mean evolution (it is already perfect).

Instead of drones, kings and queens I would have liked it more that they were hermaphrodites, Giger probably had that in mind and I know Ridley Scott wanted it to have some feminine traits.  But i'd also like to keep the need of consensual host as the absolute must of their survival. The birth of the xenomorph should be a stellar event, its first cry be heard and feared by all across the universe.

About the mural: if it is saying that the xenomorph comes from the black goo that was created by engineers, then the xenomorph is merely a weapon not something to be worshipped. They shoud have worshipped the black goo, and I believe they did until they banished it. There was no other reference to the scene from the mural, so I guess it is an easter egg meant to keep us talking about it forever.

I did not hear those comment from Ridley Scott about the parasitoid wasp but he was referring to the fact that the facehugger used the same method as the wasp to implant its own eggs into a living host body. He never said xenomorph is a big  bug.

What JC did instead: he multiplied so much the xenomorphs that each individual has become insignificant. He has come up with a giant ant queen to explain the eggs (this is the part I hate most), reducing the xenomorphs even more, to drones. From a self-sufficient egg morphing Big Chap to an army of canon meat drones, I prefer the former. As for the signs of intelligence you mention (the Aliens turn off the power and outmaneuver the marines, while later on the Queen operates an elevator) to me they are similar to the use of english translating machine by the ultimate predator in the latest hit of Shane Black. That is way below xenomorph potential and fans expectations.

And Gavin, please tell me if you don't feel insulted by the airlock scene at the end of Aliens, when Ripley opens the airlock without a suit and helmet and holds herself and the heavy weight queen by one arm only, luckily she lost the sneaker, and with it the queen, into deep space.

I mean Newt

Next*

I'm all for an ALIEN tv series and I agree with Leto, I would rather see another colony getting attack by Xenomorphs than focus on Hadley's Hope; because it would have prequel syndrome, we all know these characters are all going to die save for Next... until Alien 3 kills her off.

@daliens,

you are almost there, almost...

Sending either the black goo or eggs to Earth ultimately ends with the same result - a planet overwhelmed and then occupied by the Xenomorphs, which over time using the King theory I mentioned sees Earth become another world claimed and controlled by the Xenomorphs.

In Alien we had an egg morphing (egg silo), in Aliens we had an egg laying Alien (collapsed arm), in Covenant we had alien spore sac's (carpet bombed black goo) - whose to say that their reliance on hosts isn't but a temporary element of their lifecycle. If we view drones and warriors as infertile males and females is it not plausible that when needed a hive of Aliens would produce a fertile male to help prevent the hive from failing, which in turn would secure the Xenomorphs hold on the planet allowing the safe rebirth of the true Xenomorphs, the original intelligent ones (see my last comment).

As for your comments towards the mural, as mentioned in another thread the mural is more than just a Giger inspired Easter egg - it depicts the Xenomorph rising from (or floating in) a pool of black goo, with clear depictions of the Trilobite/Facehugger beneath. In layman's terms, it is saying that the Xenomorph comes from the black goo (hence David cannot have created something that already existed). The Xenomorphs pose in the mural is also no accident - the Engineers worship the Xenomorph, it is their dark god, it is their salvation (planet 4, the Juggernauts), and they are forever bound to it (LV-223, sacrificial Engineer), hence the name Covenant.

However, I do feel that I have to address your comments against James Cameron's sequel. Scott (and O'Bannon too, I believe) state in the making of Alien documentary that the inspiration for the Aliens use of hosts came from a parasitoid wasp, and that the Big Chap was viewed as an insect, a bug. When Cameron made Aliens some fans backlashed, citing he had reduced the Alien to dumb ass bugs. In Alien Big Chaps behavior and actions can be entirely explained using parallels found in animal behavior (establishes a nest, secures its offspring and then eliminates all remaining threats). It does not rape Lambert (those are Brett's feet, lazy editing decision #3) as Parker's body is also ravaged in a similar fashion, and Big Chap shows no signs of intelligence beyond using Jonesy as bait. In Aliens, yes many are killed by the marines weapons (which the Nostromo's crew did not have) but despite this, the Aliens turn off the power and outmaneuver the marines, while later on the Queen operates an elevator - signs of intelligence. Cameron added to the franchise, but beyond the genetic trait idea in Alien 3 Giler (not Fincher, as he left before production finished and has since disowned the movie) reduced the Alien back to its primal, animalistic nature, which as you point out has just been echoed ever since.

As for genetic purity - I refer back to the black pathogen, which took the DNA of whatever it contaminated and reordered it as per the Xenomorph template held within the AI-Nano-Virus. It is my belief that the Facehugger behaves in the same way - implanting an embryo (Chief Medical Officers report - Aliens), which then takes the DNA of its host and reorders it in the same way inside said embryo - thus the Alien could acquire traits from its host. This also means that reordering aside Big Chaps DNA was human -  an analogy for being the tool of our destruction maybe?

In a way Scott was right the beast is cooked; as it is, as a primal, animalistic monster. For the beast to survive it has to evolve and adapt, become more threatening, intelligent, sentient - a la Starbeast.

Alien lazy editing decision #1 - see DK's post above

Alien lazy editing decision #2 - see below

This insert was unnecessary, and the scene would have worked better without it. Also, take note that for Big Chap to fit in such a tight space it would have been sat on its tail -, it cannot move freely and thus poses no threat, while the pose held looks like the Alien is asking for help, being stuck et al.

This can be interesting with another Colony (not Hadley's Hope) on more beautifully and strange planet with dark secrets underground.

Also it will have Engineers themes including.

But i don't think that theme of Company/AI something else will be interesting. To heal a franchise, they need create classic story.

I just hope that I can get the show without buying a streaming service just to watch it.  If it ain't on regular T.V., it might not do well for the franchise.  A lot of people do have Netflix or even another streaming service, but I bet you many more people have cable.  Where I live, the cable company BY FAR has the faster internet.  They do have a lot of TV channels too; they also have great deals on their TV channel packages from time to time.

I could get into a TV show set in the Alien universe as long as it's on regular TV as I mentioned.

Maybe Kevin Costner could play one of the androids. He's done stuff with wolves before. Maybe he could walk through some abandoned crops on the way to the playing field. 

There is also the fact that everything appears bigger to pre teen kids in space suits ;)

Gavin

I would have expelled the runner Alien from Alien 3 from canon because it is the first attempt to show that the xenomorph takes traits from its host, thus creating a threat to its perfection. Whatever host it uses, the xenomorph should maintain its purity. We've seen it downgraded in every film, from the biomechanic looks of the Big Chap to the protomorph in Covenant that was banging its head against anything.

I like your interpretation of the Engineer sacrificing himself to seed a planet full of xenomorph life. It could open a new perspective and establish the connection between engineers and xenomorphs, connection that is missing so far. And it might do to the xenomorph some justice. I remember a deleted scene from Alien when the Big Chap was stalking Brett and moved like performing a strange ritual before it grabbed its victim. And the Big Chap had the egg morphing thing too. Big Chap was not a bug, you see JC?

Coming back to your interpretation of Juggernauts and their goal to spread the Xenomorph far and wide, this would mean the engineers are totally submissive to the xenomorph if they help spreading their seeds across the universe, not only sacrificing themselves for the ones already waiting a host. More xenomorph require more hosts. But why destroy the Earth when they can get a good harvest of hosts from it. In this case would have been more plausible to send the derelict full of eggs to Earth instead of the load of black goo.

I'd like to start it all over from the Starbeast, even with engineers as the link between the humans and the xenomorph. 

I'd like to see as well what Ridley Scott has in store for a sequel to Covenant. Who knows how kind a world would be Origae 6?

We have talked about the Alien series being a streaming series for some time and it is nice to hear it mentioned outside this forum more than once- Raised by Wolves comes to mind.

However, it would be nice to hear something more solid than someone claiming to have a reliable source who might know something and basically engaging in conjecture- this is aimed at the first embedded video and not the OP author. 

At any rate, streaming episodic content could be outstanding!

Freezerinos The time tables are a problem for sure. I enjoy the movies way more just ignoring the time line honestly.

I agree about giving Bloomkamp a shot.

Thx for your reply! I understand all this and I even have other thoughts about the "Alien" story. It still boils down to major story lines not matching up. Now I believe the story is so screwed up, we might not get another movie to bring us along. Movie houses I think may have had enough. I  guess I am very disappointed as a fan. Give the franchise to Blomkamp and see what he can do. That is my vote.

" There was so much potential on this world. Wasted by Gods that feared their own might. They convinced themselves that sacrifice cleansed them of their sins. But in the end, they were like me. Creators. Beings that understood you must give life both to the wolf, and the lamb. But then they tried to banish the wolf, And undo their creation. So I took their secrets for myself. This primordial ooze ripe with advanced nano-particles. Working off an algorithm based on evolutionary computing. It is essentially a form of radical AI. Making the substance unbelievably chaotic. That generates a unique reaction, to every genome it encounters. Reshaping life. Virtually limitless in its potential & application."

Thinking again about Prometheus,  Covenant,  Advent. Honestly speaking, I don't see any connection between engineers and xenomorph and Space Jockey even with all the display of the refurbished Juggernaut. 

What I understand from Advent :

* The engineers were Creators, like Gods.

* They created the black goo, that was the secret of their godliness (So I took their secrets for myself. This primordial ooze ripe with advanced nano-particles. Working off an algorithm based on evolutionary computing. It is essentially a form of radical AI).

* That black goo had both the attributes: to destroy (the wolf) and give life (the ooze ingested by the sacrificial lamb while seeding other planets).

* Their belief implied the supreme sacrifice as a form of repentance  (They convinced themselves that sacrifice cleansed them of their sins. )

* At some moment in time (at least 2,000 years ago) they renounced this belief and decided to abandon space travels and live a simple, ascetic life within the confines of their home world.

* The black goo was now regarded as evil and its use forbidden (they tried to banish the wolf). David despises them for this decision (There was so much potential on this world. Wasted by Gods that feared their own might.)

* Following a decision of the Great Council of the Elders, the engineers from LV223 were sent to cleanse the worlds that were seeded (undo their creation). Their return home would be welcome by all as a guaranty that any trace of the now infamous past was erased and the new age of peace and harmony could go on undisturbed. 

* Unfortunately an accident prevented the LV223 engineers to fulfill their sacred mission and the long awaited return of their ship was in fact bringing a derailed android and the wolf.

* The mural in Prometheus was a splendiferous easter egg

* The Deacon was the cherry for the xenomorph fans that ate all the cake (I felt it like a foreign body, not belonging in that film).

* Nobody could ever reasonably explain (except if they were smuggled for the black market) the thousands of eggs on an engineer ship (the derelict from Alien) - how were they made, how were they loaded, why they were needed as weapons since they had the urns full of black goo that proved capable of killing all flesh on planet 4.

* If the xenomorph was not a species in itself, I don't see how or why anybody except Dan O’Bannon / H.R. Giger could have imagined / created it. 

* In conclusion I think the only chance of this beautiful beast is to return as the Starbeast.

@ daliens,

Why would we expel the runner Alien from Alien 3 from canon, Alien 3, as with Aliens (and sadly Alien Resurrection) are all canon installments of the franchise.

@ BigDave,

I fear you are overthinking everything and trying to imprint all of the lore into one cohesive narrative. While I commend your efforts, such an endeavor will only ever result in madness.

My own, somewhat simplistically explained assertions come from what is canon, which is what we see in the movies.

To help bring this thread back on track, what the films show us is that the Engineers are human, frequently use primitive technology, have visited earth during our history and have access to Juggernauts.

Their genetic links to us are undeniable. The question is whether they are our creators or merely a community of our ancestors that were granted sanctuary elsewhere (Planet 4). Prometheus' opening scene would seem to suggest the former, but beyond their access to the Juggernauts there is no evidence that they are an advanced race, yet there is overwhelming evidence that they are primitive (tech, language, lifestyle). As for the aforementioned scene, remember that it does not state that the planet is Earth, or that the life formed from the Engineers sacrifice is anything other than what the rest of the movie dictates - It is highly possible, and likely that said Engineer was sacrificing himself to seed a planet full of Xenomorph life.

Despite their primitive nature and human heritage as likely Neolithic humans, the remaining question about the Engineers is their evidently different (to us) appearance.

I believe this was likely achieved by having neolithic humans used as hosts for a world occupied by the Xenomorphs, which using my King Alien theory (lack of hosts sees a sexually active male that can inseminate Queens enabling the production of eggs incubating a sub-species of hosts) results into genetically optimized humans AKA the Engineers as said hosts.

As for the different appearances in the Engineers, I believe the Last Engineer and his brethren on LV-223 were augmented by the Juggernauts to be able to pilot them through a symbiotic connection though passive role in the chair, whereas the Engineers on Planet 4 are those granted sanctuary and paradise in return for their services to the Juggernauts - destroy your homeworld and others in return for a small patch in paradise.

As for the Juggernauts, it appears their goal is to spread the Xenomorph far and wide, with the Sacrificial Engineer likely sacrificing themselves amidst some delusions of misguided religious grandeur.

As for the Xenomorphs themselves, I believe what we have seen is merely the front line of the species, the first wave. I believe that somewhere amidst the many worlds and many galaxies (possibly even universes) they have subjugated the true dark gods watch and wait.

I believe eons ago an ancient race achieved immortality through biomechanics and transformed themselves into the Xenomorphs - a seemingly feral and deadly parasitoid species that when left unchecked propagates beyond its seemingly restrictive life cycle and is able to birth advanced biomechanical technology (Juggernauts) and through the coding embedded in their AI-Nano-Virus makeup, able to resurrect their sentient and intelligent former selves.

The weapon is not a tool created by the enemy; it IS the enemy.

BigDave where do we see the xenomorph takes traits of its host?

The runner from Alien 3 can be expelled from the cannon, no matter how interesting it is.