Comments (Page 348)
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Lol I didn't memorize the lousy script. Just re-watch it.
I must have missed that part. (I went to the restroom at one point.)
What were the words that David said during the scene?
He shows the grave to the other AI.
I never seen a grave, but I will have to watch "Covenant" again to make sure.
And it also bothers me if she is not dead, why would David make her a grave and sing to her picture? To fools the audience who wanted to know what happened to her? Does he know he is a character?
Lol fair enough. But the hole idea of utilizing women as birthing machines fascinates me lol. Its kind of like the lactating women in Mad max 4. Too bad Disney will PC up the series for sure.
@Critters5
True, but we don't know if she's dead, we can only speculate ;)
I know, I was personally pissed Shaw was killed it was the only likeable Alien character since Alien 3.
Critters5 "RS wanted her not to be rotten yet so we could see what he had done to Shaw obviously. " RS is proud of what he has to his character? Great achievement indeed.
Movie fan Ok, but dissecting is not the same as "re-routing" nerve tissue . As she does no have a spinal cord anymore,logically it follows that the organs must be controlled directly by the brain somehow and that is as likely as the head in the jar thing. And her hair would touch the life sustaining organs? That surely is not a way to infection...
And you still does not answer how the organs don't get infected if they are stored in the open at the room temperature.
But look, look your theory could be right, but ultimately if she was not dead by the time of Covenant, what would have been Scott's plan for her.
David could survive a crash better because he is a robot. Eitherway until they state you are right we can only speculate. I think your theory for what David was doing to get the eggs is correct but I think she was dead at the point that covenant arrived and not decomposed because RS wanted her not to be rotten yet so we could see what he had done to Shaw obviously.
Exactly Ignorantguy, its too much of a stretch for no purpose.
@ignorantGuy
David somehow had the tools to display and dissect many creatures found on the planet, he even has a display of a humanoid in his lab, so he most likely had the tools to perform the operation.
I also got another reason why Shaw might not be dead: When the Juggernaut crashed David was completely fine, so it wasn't a very rough landing and Shaw was most likely okay if not shook up. David did the surgery on Shaw when she got pregnant and her womb couldn't contain the growing mass, so David crafted a crest to hold her important organs and keep her alive while allowing eggs to grow in her body.
Shaw made many eggs and David performed the extraction procedure on the table.
So David is also a master surgeon now, using no tools? And how can organs be kept in the open and no infections to appear and contaminate everything?
I'm an ignorant guy not a movie fan, however. And yes she is probably dead, but one can a stupid a-hole like me hope for A space Girl with the Dragon Tattoo? But the those are dreams...
@Critters5
I didn't say she could move herself, in fact if Shaw won't be able to stand on her legs because David removed her hip bones for the crest and to make room for the growing egg. David moved her on the table after the crash to keep her stabilized.
Movie fan, I don't think Shaw is going to be moving her body anywhere to help the engineers. I think she is a dead ripped up piece of meat.
Well at least, I have seen those other things on tv, so no love lost there, as there was no interest from me either...
Remember my theory of the crest: it is made of bone to hold it together, and the organs: Heart, Intestines, Stomach, and lungs to keep Shaw alive.
That's my point the deacon played no role other than a heads up to fanboys. How in the world would David have time to carry her ripped up body into the covenant without anyone seeing and at what point in the film lol? And yes Movie fan she looks dead dead dead.
Sorry but she looks dead, her color is that of a corpse, she hasn't got any tubes to feed or bring air to her body, there is no heart to pump blood, no lungs to breath.
She did not decompose because the movie wants not to...
Critters5, maybe the engineers could "rebuild" her and give her the bloody answers (which many fans would have wanted), make her reboot Walter (or other human device left there by the Covenant crew, ok I prefer the second choice) to find about where David went (remember they did not invent binary logic).
@Critters5
What role did the deacon at the end of "Prometheus" play in "Covenant"?
What I think happens for the sequel is that in my first image (close up of Shaw's face) David was transferring Shaw to the covenant, or maybe he extracted some eggs from Shaw and transferred them to the covenant. With the image in the lab, we can't see Shaw's face too clearly, Shaw could have her eyes closed in that picture.
@BigDave
In the first image, i'm pretty sure that could be David transferring Shaw to the covenant or Right after the crash, In the second image Shaw is lying on the table as if for an operation, probably alive but in a coma.
Yea covenant was the movie with most blown potential since the SW prequels/new triology, Ghostbusters remake and Indy 4...
I really don't like my idea as it is not very original. But neither was covenant.
Movie guy, I dk sounds like a stretch. I think your theory is likely correct but I think she is dead. What role would she play in the sequel being left behind in that state alive??
I think Dr Shaw is dead in that image, but i think she was alive at some point while David was experimenting on her.
It would have been interesting to see where the Prometheus Sequel was going prior to Harper and Logan being brought in.... FINGERS CROSSED we may see a leak or release of Paglens drafts or Greens Evolution of Paglens Drafts.
@Critters5
1. Shaw's body has been exposed to the black ooze, so she is going through some transformations, or David has opened her eyes so he can check her every so often like an eye doctor.
2. Ridley Scott had originally intended to follow the path of David and Shaw, but then FOX wanted to make more $$$ so they made him change the whole plot, he might of been planning to explain what happened but FOX didn't want or care about it.
The Bathsheba is interesting because this loosely is something i was going to explore in the latter part of my Alien: Ascension Movie idea
A incoming Human Ship would have on board a Synthetic Construct Female... Part Organic, Part Synthetic and David would indeed see her as his NEW Love interest and David would be able to Persuade her to see his side of the Story much like how Lucifer Persuaded Eve to Eat from the Forbidden Fruit.
A Hubris occurs when via Engineers she is captured and Evolved into a Bio-Mechanical Hybrid, using Davids Experiments on her... SHE would be the Source of the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph which would be revealed in the 3rd part of the Alien Covenant Story.
Alien: Absolution
I do think the Themes of Creation shown in Prometheus but in many Mythos do show that Sub-Creating leads to Hubris, Rebellion of Creation against Creator... Son against the Father, the Prince against the King.
And so indeed Davids creation leads to his Downfall... but i was then to explore a Redemption for David... where he gets Revenge of the Race above the Engineers and Prevents his Creations from Invading the Galaxy...
He causes the Space Jockey Incident and also the Destruction of LV-223.
Great point Bigdave I think with the Disney purchase we will not get any mind blowing gruesomeness which fans adore. I think it will be some lame, CGI, rushed scene or plot device. I think Alien is doomed under Disney forever.
@ignorantGuy
Good points... and while Disney may not want to make a Cert 18/Hard R Movie.... i also think they would not want to explore Chest Busted Females, i think even the AVPR Pred-Alien Impregnation Scene is something a Disney would never Touch...
I feel David's Queen would not be the traditional route, which means a Chest Busting for Daniels and a Queen like we had with Ripley in Alien 3.
As far as Dr Shaw.... i feel it shows she may have wanted Children but she realized she cant, this seemed to be something that bothered her when she answered Holloway about she cant create life... And also the Shock when David told her she was Pregnant.
I would think there was the Potential that if Dr Shaw was offered by David or Engineers a Chance to be able to Give Birth and so FIX what ever is preventing her from being able to have a Traditional Baby. I think she would have taken such a chance.... especially if she found out she could gain NO Answers from the Engineers.
So there was a lot of potential that a Sequel could have explored...
I wonder if a lot of this Potential would be explored in the Next movie or would have been.... as it seems bizarre how the Movie ended which does not bold well for Daniels.
A few things i picked up more, was David mentions about Tucking the Children In (Face Hugger Emryo's) and the Advent Viral about all he needs is to Perfect his Queen.
To me this hints they are maybe thinking of using Daniels to some degree for David to Perfect his Organisms... David was limited on Planet 4 with Dr Shaw.... but the Covenant Ship David has Technology that he could come up with some more Inventive ways to Perfect/Procreate his Creation.
ignorantguy I like your idea of the downfall and losing control of the aliens. There are so many promising ideas, but I don't we will see another movie but who knows with RS's pull.
"like the Engineers are waiting for Covenant on Origae-6."
I think it would be a bit too much of a Coincidence if Origae-6 is a Engineer World, and how would that Bold for David arriving to discover the World is Inhabited by Engineers... We get into the Problem then of David introducing himself, and how does the Humans come into play...
Not that this can be ruled out though...
I think maybe at best we could see Origae-6 has signs it used to be inhabited but i think discovering the World has Engineers or other Humanoids MAY be to much of a Coincidence.
Ridley Scott has given us some clues... as he ponders.
*What kind of a World would David Create?
*Hints they are off to the Planet (i assume Origae-6)
*Movie will be less Xenomorph and Focus on AI
*RS mentions Baty and Racheal (Replicants) are a kind of AI so this reveal could mean the LV-223 Engineers are AI
*RS reveals that they will arrive at Origae-6 (likely) but that 3-4 incoming Parties will be arriving...
*RS reveals that ONE of these are the Engineers who return to Planet 4 and discover the destruction and are not pleased and so they will be off to find the Culprit (David).
So there is Scope with the Next movie, but it has to be handled very well and already a lot of Fans are not pleased on the David Story and the Plot being about him and his Creations... and a lot of Fans are displeased at the Action and use of the Xenomorph.
But RS has a War of the Worlds kind of Plan how to expand the Franchise and i think this is more than Humans vs Engineers vs Synthetics vs Xenomorphs.
I really wish this theory was true because it is so cool! Why would it not be explained AT ALL in the movie though if it is such an original idea?
Love the theory even though I think she is dead. If she is in a coma, why would her eyes be open and very dead looking? (it seems most of our most interesting theories are not what RS had in mind. He seems to have been going with a much more shallow story).
Even if she dies, we won't see it on screen, as we did not see in neither Alien, Prometheus and Covy to honor Dan O'Bannon. Sir Scott might change that but that would be already AVPR territory and he wouldn't lower himself there. In the movies how many women are chest bursted? 1 in Aliens and 2 in Resurrection and Ripley in cubed?
And why everybody thinks that David will create a xenomorph queen? What I can tell for sure that the queen in this context is Bathsheba and as in the Bible story, David's "affair" with her will mark the start of his Downfall, meaning he will lose the control of the aliens. But this queen is probably a curve-ball (unless it will appear only to pander to hardcore fans).
Shaw could have not be baron, eventually baroness, but how many nobles die in missionary work? :P And was her biggest desire to have children, even if she was barren and especially after the trilobite incident? Wasn't her quest moral in nature ? To dream about having children and or having a cabin by the lake are making me puke especially in a Sci-fi setting, when you could explore the whole universe.
Bigdave, I agree, option 5 would be the superior choice for sure. I honestly don't think we are getting a sequel. I think they are going to do a soft reboot, Alien 5 or AVP reboot...
I think the whole David/Dr Shaw situation is interesting and so ambiguous its open for debate...
*We see David gets a Agenda to Create for himself...
*We see there are Female Engineers....
*We see in Davids Workshop Infant Humanoid Skulls..
*We hear that David had used Engineers but the results where not as intended and it took a Human to gain David the Fruits of his Labor.
*We hear David explain that he wanted to create a New Paradise and he wanted to Evolve Dr Shaw but she refused....
It paints a interesting picture that is open for Debate... I think when looking at the End of Prometheus, the actual Crossing Prologue, how David said he felt for Dr Shaw and the Nature Boy Song for the Trailer.
I get a picture that David has Dr Shaw held up in the Juggernaught, telling her the Environment is infected and would take Months, Years to be habitable... This allows David to go about doing what he was doing.
I think Dr Shaw grew Suspicious and one time then discovers Davids Lies, and Horrors... i would assume David tries to explain to Dr Shaw and maybe Proclaims his Love for her... maybe offering her a Covenant.. where David claims they Can Start a New PARADISE...
Dr Shaw having found out she cant get her Answers.. and she has NOTHING... But David would try and suggest he and Dr Shaw can Create a New World... he can Give her the Gift of Creation...
But she rejects David and his Perverse Ideas... and tries to do a Runner and Escape... David sees Rejection from Dr Shaw, and he takes this very bad... NOW views that Dr Shaw is the same as all Humans and so David then Proceeds to capture Dr Shaw and USE her for his Experiments.
I was drawn to similar to this prior to the Trailer when the Set Leaks happened regarding his Workshop and i noticed those Human Baby Skulls which made me think DAVID managed to allow Dr Shaw to Bare Children.....
But Alas we find out Actually these are Engineer Infants... but these ideas above, i think are a picture to consider... its HOW i look at what went down.
But that Does-Not mean its actually what went down...
So i dont think David intended to Kill her, i think maybe he intended to allow her to create/give birth to Humanoids... but then David would have likely had a Agenda to use these to Evolve into his own Creation.
"EDIT: one time Ridley Scott said: "Shaw technically doesn't die" meaning he has the intention that Shaw is alive."
I am not quite sure he has said that, will have to check it out.
The Technically Does not Die Quote had first Originated from a Source i had who had information regarding the earlier 2014 Prometheus 2 drafts... Where they claimed Dr Shaw Technically does not Die, she is incapacitated for the most part, she plays a Small but Vital Role in Davids RE-CREATION of IT (could be Xenomorph or Deacon). They also hinted that in context to Paradise Lost.... Without Sin (i asssume Satans Daughter) there would be NO Xenomorphs and that Humans play the Bigger Role in the Xenomorph Creation. Not Engineers.
When putting this together..... (Sin was constantly in labor giving birth to Hounds of Hell that ripped at her Entrails as they are Born) only to heal and continue this Cycle. Looking at a Human being involved more with the Xenomorph Creation... And then the Sources comments that David wanted to play GOD and Create his own Creation and all he needed was Knowledge and Tools and he has BOTH.
Then their description of a Humanoid attached to some Bio-Mechanical Device/Wall and Apparatus, which indeed some of the unused Concept Works showed was Dr Shaws fate..
It appears maybe the Source from November 2014 that i had been passed on to in February 2015.... Might have been Correct.
