"Eggmorphing"...can we PLEASE put that concept to death????

I just really hope ridley sticks to the concept that theres a long history between the engineers and the xeno and we delve into that past indepth, that's what most fans have been waiting to see for more than 30 years

@ali81. Couldn't agree more

whats egg morphing?

Egg morphing makes sense - the name is the problem. Think of it as parasitic metamorphosis. Essentially, a person is infected and 'broken down' into another state (with a specific purpose) - very similar to what the black goo does - and I don't hear people moaning about that.

I'd also point out, the Deacon really would not have fit inside the Engineer in Prometheus, so that, to me, is more of an issue than the concept of egg-metamorphosis. Also, from what I've seen, it looks reasonably unrealistic that a Neomorph of the size it appears to be could fit inside the crew member in the AC trailer, and they could show little indication that it's in there. And don't get me started on the 'back bursting' through the spine. Not really anatomically feasible. However, I suspend disbelief because I am entertained.

As QES said, so much effort is expended debating stuff, that at the end of the day, is make believe. Ridley can do whatever the hell he chooses, and I for one hope he does.

Simple fact...

How can you fit eggmorphing in a scene...if the process takes time how would it be effective in a scene...you coudnt see the body being transformed into a egg...you would have to see it by phases..its not effective on screen! Would you enjoy watch a accelarated scene of the body being transformed into a egg while xenos look at it? Not to mention different xeno categories...warrior can be a drone? Drone can be a warrior?

Eggmorphing done by a xeno to a person..changing the subject into a egg would mean...1 x 2... 2x2....4x4....16x16 and so on...why the hell would they need a queen for as it produces eggs?

Xenos collect subjects queen produces eggs facehuggers for them..

Same principle as ants bees. If you put eggmorphing into it must be on another morph neo or deacon..as we dont know how they reproduce,in the xeno the nature of what they are and how they are presented cant be eggmorph. Specially we have ac right there and i dont see eggmorph possible in the way of xeno converting people into eggs. No way.

Also some guys praise ridley too much,i bet even him doesnt know what hes doing yet and how he wants to keep telling the story.proof? Watch every single interview in chronological fashion like i did and you take the conclusions.

I dont know why but i been gettin the feeling that personally i will be very disapointed at ac..its smelling like a money grabber alien fan movie...not for the hardcore universe who wants real substance..i will love it but i will be disapointed. I dont trust ridley at all,its his story but i dont think he will tell the story we want to hear in general.

@Tiago_miami_la - you regularly refer to 'fan boy movie' in your posts, but your comment above actually suggest you are a fan of James Cameron's take on the Alien concept. There is room for both JCs take and Ridley's original Alien direction. This is after all Ridley's movie, as was Prometheus, as was Alien (that started it all).

Nothing, at all, about egg-morphing equates to 'fan boy' or 'money grabbing'. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but essentially you're saying if AC doesn't contain what you, personally, think it should, then Ridley, and many of us who disagree with you, are wrong.

I hope there's enough in AC for everyone - as long as there's no time travelling I'll be happy.

@ QueenElizabethShaw

Well said, we should try to connect the two concepts together.

egg morph-queen-drone-egg morph.

Neomorph

I should have chosen my words more carefully. I didn't intend to convey the idea of actual hate. I was using the word in the same context of "hatin" or "hater" meaning downplaying.

I have no problem with people having different opinions which was the point of my post. I like the queen method more than the egg morphing method but I don't think people should stop talking about egg morphing or entertaining the idea. It's not my preference but it's close enough to canon that I believe it should be taken seriously.

My main point was that instead of arguing about which is better, why not accept they are both pretty much part of the canon and then from there, have a discussion about the different ways we could see the two given their place in the cycle, and furthermore what kinds of possibilities are born out of allowing egg morphing a place in the cycle.

Having a conversation about what kinds of situations or story points morphing opens doors to (without insisting it should have been used instead of the queen method) just seems like it would yield more interesting discussions than arguing about which method should have the spotlight.

egg morphing scene could be done easily imo. in alien, I think ridley could have done it differently without having to leave out the brett/ dallas egg scene for a directors cut. after the xeno grans dallas we cut to the parker/ ripley/ lambert scene, after they have talked and parker takes off to refuel the flame unit, we cut to the depths of the nostromo where the xeno has dallas. we see it doing whatever it does to start the process then the camera moves on brett, who has already started the morphing process and it would be clear to all what was going to happen to dallas, no?

Its a Question of personal opinion really

As far as 100% canon... maybe the Egg Morph has to be thrown out as much as the Elder (frail old) Engineers.

Where we just have to accept these things will only be Canon if they are explored in future movies... which i think they will but in a re-designed way... (Elders and Egg Morph)

The idea makes sense as far as Egg Morph, but the way it appeared in Alien was flawed a bit... horrific but larger and i did not like the way it looked....  Maybe if they Head Morph.. i.e just need a Head and Morph that would explain the size difference.

The only other logical ways are if the Egg Morph creates a Larger Queen Face Huger... But then its how does such a Large Face Hugger infect Ripley between Aliens and Alien 3

But then once a colony/hive is set up there may be other ways to create a Queen....  If we take this route... then i would have gone for the Egg Morph route to produce a Proto-Queen right from the Egg (no Face Huger)

I think we need to look at the Xenomorph as being a Organism that can adapt to environments... and its procreation fitting this and so a Egg Morph would work.

I dont want to get into detail about Bees, Wasps, Ants and Termites as far as Procreation...

But if the Xenos follow some of those traits... it makes sense..

But if a worker/drone Bee or Ant or normal Termite and Wasp are the only survivors of a hive... then if this lone insect is the last of its kind.... then there would be no more...

The same would be with the Xenomorph if we go for Aliens route and ignore the Egg Morph..... if there are no more Eggs and only one Xeno Warrior left or Drone... how does this procreate?

Surely a more perfect Organism and Species would have a Plan B?

This is where the Egg Morph fits.

Not saying they will go this route.. but i think they would go for something similar...  and it seemed Alien 5 was also going to touch upon some Egg Morph kind of Scene...

Be it a Egg Morph or some other related Transformation of a Human to something that fits in with the Alien Procreation.

dave

remember the size of the egg is about 3ft which when u think of the average human sitting with theyr legs tugged into theyr chest isnt that far off. some give and take can be given. I just find the cocept of both forms coexisting makes for the species being so much more horrifying as u can never be sure if uv fully wiped them out. even 1 lone drone missed can repopulate the species making them the near perfect organism

Both Ridley and Giger were unhappy with the Eggmorph props, and Giger lamented that he wished he could have had some time to work on it. These were Fiberglas enclosures meant to fit a human being and not well thought out and it shows. 

In the editing room it was found that the scene also hobbled the pacing in the 3rd act and I read also in an interview (I think on Strange Shapes) that some found it to be a step too far in the horror aspect (remember, this was 1978) and so it was excised.

A similar scene could be done now, it could be less than a minute long and tell you all you need to know, and be utterly anxiety inducing and nauseating, and enrich the Morb mythology.

I think, when considering Morb biology, that one needs to leave nature out of it. There's a possibility it was once a natural lifeform that has since been re-engineered to function as a source of bioterrorism, and that certain traits were genetically programmed rather than evolved. I believe at the very least that logic must be discarded, that was the original intent with Alien.

I don't hate the queen, when I was a boy I was quite taken with it, but my tastes have changed over time and I find Cameron's aesthetic jarring in the context of the Alien universe (Remember, Cameron also wanted Arnold Schwarzenegger in an Alien movie). That's a personal observation, not a superior one. I just know what I like and, for me, It's Ridley's vision. I'll happily go on praising him just as I would praise any artist I'm partial to and thankful for. Why shouldn't I?

 the reason for dropping the egg chamber scene in alien was a valid one due to the pace of the act but could possibly have been put in at an earlier stage such as the one I suggested after parker went for more fuel as this wouldnt have done anything to the pace of the moment. id keep both personally  

@Aorta "That's a personal observation, not a superior one" - well said - nice one! I've appreciated reading your posts, this one exemplifies your learned, pragmatic and balanced approach.

The way one or two other members talk on here, I sometimes wonder why we're getting a new film, given they already 'know' all about what will and 'absolutely' won't happen, and how Ridley has 'no idea' what he's doing. I suspect they're tapping those comments out on their keyboards while they're waiting for a call to close their own multi-million dollar movie deals........

I don't really see anywhere that suggests anyone believes RS doesn't know what hes doing, other than the bashing Prometheus gets from some but that seems aimed more at the writer. there r one or 2 stuck in theyr own ways but that's the beauty of it all, everyone entitled to theyr own opinions and theories and it opens others up to rethinking theyr own thoughts. I for one signed my own multi-million dollar deal for alien vs I.T

@ali81 - I'm not referring to you at all. 11 comments up from this one....

MuzzleNZ

"The way one or two other members talk on here, I sometimes wonder why we're getting a new film, given they already 'know' all about what will and 'absolutely' won't happen"

I've experienced this kind of reaction on the forum as well. It can be frustrating when someone digs their heels into the ground on something they can't really prove or disprove with finality. That being said, I think ali81 nailed it well.

"that's the beauty of it all, everyone entitled to theyr own opinions and theories and it opens others up to rethinking theyr own thoughts."

I've experienced this too. Encountering the people who take a "I've already got it figured out" mindset have forced me to explore alternatives to my own ideas and has generally served as food for thought.

The only downside is when you get someone who is so attached to an idea, that no matter what part of it you question, there is pre-disposed rejection instead of an actual conversation. The other toxic force I've encountered are those who push ideas that contradict Ridley's canon and refuse to confront the unlikelihood of Ridley undermining that. (I should mention that when I say "Ridley's canon" I refer to the films he has publicly expressed his love for. Basically the first two movies.)

Aorta

"I don't hate the queen, when I was a boy I was quite taken with it, but my tastes have changed over time and I find Cameron's aesthetic jarring in the context of the Alien universe"

In spite of the fact that I'm a fan of the queen to this day, I can sympathize with your change of heart. I should probably specify that when I say I'm a fan of the Queen, I am talking about the Queen of Aliens. I mention this because I found Resurrection's and AVP's depictions of the Queen to be an insult to her.

Resurrection gave her human qualities which (while there was an intentional point to that) really rubbed me the wrong way. It felt like it detracted from what was achieved in her concept with Aliens. In AVP she was completely CGI and you saw way too much of her (and for way too long). For me that watered her down.

Leaving my personal preferences aside, whatever path Sir Ridley chooses for Covenant will be fine with me.

I still have the greatest confidence in him, and I suspect that he will pull off an amazing film which will successfully combine the aesthetic of ALIEN with that of PROMETHEUS.

ps I appreciate and love hearing everyones opinions and ideas, that's one of the things which makes this site such a wonderful place to inhabit.

To any new members who I haven't interacted with yet....

Welcome aboard, it's good to have you all here! 

now i get egg morphing. Man oh man is that a freaky idea. I'm sad now it isn't a thing. it's like when I spider cocoons its victim to turn it into a jelly donut. except way worse. if they use it in the movie it's sure to make lotsa people uncomfortable for days. THREE CHEERS FOR EGG MORPHING!

putting sarcasm aside for a moment id I think that's the point of the egg morphing concept, takes the viewer out theyr comfort zone

"How can you fit eggmorphing in a scene...if the process takes time how would it be effective in a scene...you coudnt see the body being transformed into a egg...you would have to see it by phases..its not effective on screen! "

Of course you can show it. You see it being transformed in the directors cut.

no sarcasm here. I think its cool

@Lone - yep, everyone's ideas and enthusiasm are fantastic. That's why I'm here, and that's what's getting me so more excited (if that's at all possible!) about AC and beyond. I'm trying to constructively contribute, and take as much from others as I can.

My earlier comments really are about the disrespect - 'If Ridley does this, then he's a d*ck', 'Ridley doesn't know what he's doing, he's making it up'. 

By all means, have a theory and stick with it (or let other ideas morph yours, like cognitive black goo!), but we can do without the 'if he doesn't do what I think, then he's d*ck and just trying to make money for Fox or catering to fan boys'.

And don't even get me started on canon......

S.M

IMO it seems the best way to go about it would be to show the victim wake up from being initially cocooned. Then there should be at least two scenes later in the film separated by perhaps 20 or 30 minutes where you see the xeno return to the cocooned victim to secrete more transformative fluids on him/her.

The initial scene where the process begins, you should only see back of the xenos head near the feet of the victim. Victim wakes up stunned and confused but gaining lucidity. Victim mutters "where am I?" then looks down to see the xeno and suddenly jolts with adrenaline saying something like
"oh my god. What...what are you doing? Stop. (sound of acid sizzling) STOP! AHHHHH!  HELP! STOP! ARRGGGGG" 

The next scene where we return to the victim we now see the base of what appears to be the bottom of an egg encasing the victim up to his/her knees. The victim is now more disoriented. We see the victim (not weeping or sobbing) crying in agony with tears and mucus running down the face. Much less lucid now the victim is still trying call for help with a shivering/trembling voice. "some--one p-p-please....(dying to a whisper) some-one...help"
Victim begins having a seizure and vomits as we pan down to see the xeno return to secreting near the upper thighs.

Final transformation scene, we finally see something like the Brett egg and the xeno approaches one last time and vomits on the victims face. The victim (who's face is now unrecognizable and covered in what looks like maggots) moves ever so slightly and lets out one last muffled moan.

This egg is now approached in one last scene by fellow humans (because someone spots an article of the victim's clothing at the base without noticing there is a big fat egg embedded in the wall. The egg opens and much more quickly than any other facehugger, a royal facehugger springs out, snaps one persons neck and turns to go for the other. Just as it's flying through the air to land on the face of the second person, the sound of repeating gunshots is heard as the would be queen is obliterated by a barrage of bullets. (Also, this shot with the facehugger flying in the air just before it's destroyed should not be in matrix style slow-mo. This must be very fast. So fast the viewer almost misses it)

That's the best I can come up with for now.

im open minded and so choked to se AC and its sequel. id go as far as to say alien is one of very few movies that, holes aside, is close to movie perfection as u can get. there r holes because fans have had 30 years to find them and because wer so caught up in it, we examined the movie more closely. the only I would ever have is if he goes with, as iv mentioned, the whole 'david did it' theory. 90% of why we want these movies is to answer the derelict scene. for me anyway. if it was in deed david and pradise IS lv426 then I don't think that scene will have the same effect. do u think u could watch that scene again after the trilogy, finding out it was david, and have the same feelings about the derelict scene again? the problem with canon is theres so much material out there dedicated to alien and no one from fox has really come out and clearly stated what is and what isn't, its down to us to debate these things but that adds to the wonder of the alien world created for us

The thing is too that you don't want Fox dictating canon. What do they know? If anyone was going to lay down the he law about canon you'd want a science fiction writer, and even then, who would be a good choice? You'd get a few dozen answers from this forum alone.

The thing about the Derelict scene is, the only really satisfying answer would have to be shown like a silent movie, or one with unknown languages and no subtitles. Like the opening scene in Prometheus, but even more surreal, otherworldly  and cruel. Which Ridley is perfectly capable of.

i think Ridley has lots of ideas and you can see how he takes what he's given and makes it his own, for example again the opening scene in Prometheus is better, smarter and weirder than any of the written versions of it. But at the end of the day there are many cooks working to create the final product and the outcome may not be what you hoped. But in the hands of these particular film makers, the result will still be pretty amazing.

Aorta

My response to your comment about who makes the calls on canon...

If only he was still alive and working at Ridley's side on this...

Thumbs up posters on this page ;)

@Tiago_miami_la - you regularly refer to 'fan boy movie' in your posts, but your comment above actually suggest you are a fan of James Cameron's take on the Alien concept. There is room for both JCs take and Ridley's original Alien direction. This is after all Ridley's movie, as was Prometheus, as was Alien (that started it all).

Nothing, at all, about egg-morphing equates to 'fan boy' or 'money grabbing'. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but essentially you're saying if AC doesn't contain what you, personally, think it should, then Ridley, and many of us who disagree with you, are wrong.

I hope there's enough in AC for everyone - as long as there's no time travelling I'll be happy.

Im a fan of blomkamp take on alien yes..

And i say it,blomkamp should keep it and tackle it.

Im a fan of ridley prometheus...ridley should keep it and keep on with it leaving alien development to blomkamp

This is not being a fanboy. This is simply saying ridley wants to tell his story and disregard the masterpiece that was aliens ..disregard what cameron told and what cameron told is part of the alien nature. Blomkamp didnt disregarded what ridley told..he improved it.

I love prometheus why did he came back to xenos? Not a money grabber? He was supose to present his connection to alien on the end of the final movie! In the movie right after prometheus hes already bringing it. Why? Because his visions was sucking for most and he had to bring back the beast to sell. Alien was his film...alien isnt his.

Very easy example. You make alien movie yet you didnt thought about everything u wanted,you just made a cool movie about a derelict who was carrying cargo,it could be war or scientific etc what he said ,...after it you dont give a crap of whats going on you didnt even expanded your concept you just made a cool movie and fine.

Franchise is delivered to me. I expand your concept...make a couple movies taking ur ideas and improving them..and for 20 years i been telling people what aliens are how they work and their nature.

After 20 years you come and say i want to tell how the derelict got there..and connect the dot. Forget what the other guy said...after 20 years here i am to expand what i wanted...duck the queen..duck cameron..duck blomkamp..im gonna tell my vision we dont need a queen..we gonna have egg morphing instead and the alien is now this im gonna tell you.

Ok so now we have 2 paralel universe of alien? That connects to the derelict? That makes the xeno even more stupid. If they can eggmorph why didnt we saw it after alien...why was it in deleted scenes?

In any thread i said you are wrong if you dont agree, i said you praise a guy that doesnt even know what story he wants to tell..and the interviews are proof of it..the change of plans,scripts etc.

For me egg morohing doesnt make any sense if its like QES mentioned and i mentioned before...its a time event for the royal egg...bigger..bigger facehugger that delivers the queen. I can enumerate a lot of problems in eggmorph concept.but it was deleted correct?

Im not saying isnt cool! Its awesome but not for the xeno,not to make other xenos..for the neomorph awesome.we dont know nothing about it..tell a new story! Dont try to erase what others told for 20 years after you just because you started it.

I didnt say eggmorphing was money grabber. I say ridley is money grabbing by bringing the xeno so soon it wasnt planned and he even said was cooked.

"The thing is too that you don't want Fox dictating canon. What do they know?"

They own the IP.  They dictate.  That's how these things work.

Yes..they fail to realise ridley does what hes told to do.

He wanted paradise lost but fox told him,your vision sucks and you have fans pissed at you,we need a alien movie.

Pretty much what happened. His initial statment was very clear

"Yes, but it won’t be in the next one. It will be in the one after this one or maybe even a fourth film before we get back into the ‘Alien’ franchise… The whole point of it is to explain the Alien franchise and to explain the how and why of the creation of the Alien itself. I always thought of the Alien as kind of a piece of bacterial warfare. I always thought that that original ship, which I call the Croissant, was a battleship, holding these biomechanoid creatures that were all about destruction."

Question about seeing a xeno again?

"No. Absolutely not. They squeezed it dry. He (the xenomorph) did very well. (He laughs) He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!

"The beast is done. Cooked,” says Scott. “I got lucky meeting [H.R.] Giger all those years ago. It’s very hard to repeat that. I just happen to be the one who forced it through because they said it’s obscene. They didn’t want to do it, and I said, ‘I want to do it; it’s fantastic’. But after four, I think it wears out a little bit. There’s only so much snarling you can do. I think you’ve got to come back with something more interesting. And I think we’ve found the next step. I thought the Engineers were quite a good start.”

“There was always this discussion: is Alien, the character, the beast, played out or not? We’ll have them all: egg, face-hugger, chest-burster, then the big boy,”

theres at least 13 interviews showing ridley bipolar personality and showing a guy who makes up as he goes.

So this wasnt a money grabber attitude..

Or 

Prometheus ducked me badly...people erase prometheus 2 and paradise lost, we gonna go back to alien..im too old for this shit.

So for me he was coward or lazy .

He should stick with his own vision continue with prometheus story make other creatures or beings. And leave the xenos to a cool concept like blomkamp had...but nooo...i need to clean my reputation...i messed up i need to bring back the xeno and people will smile..blomkamp was the right person to do it picking of aliens foward and ridley alien backwards.

Thats what i said.in any way i connect eggmorphing to money grabbing or fanboyism.

And let me tell you ac is gonna suck for hardcore fans! Writte it down and then if you want to admit ok. Everything on ac yells action xeno terror. Like the leaks say.i wish they arent true but with ridley i dont get my hopes high.its all im saying.

When a script and vision changes this much in such short period of time then what we will get is a mess.

Define "hardcore fans".

Yeah, OK. I don't know where to start, so I guess I just won't. I appreciate your steadfast passion for James Cameron's vision (and Blomkamp's - though he's really done nothing as yet - but agree, he has some good ideas). However, 'hardcore fans' come in all shapes and sizes, and I'd suggest many are fans of more than just one aspect or one direction.

I hope AC has something for you. As a 'hardcore fan' myself, I know it will have something for me.

@S.M - I think I saw some here - http://www.scified.com/blog/alien5

Sm

The fans that want the background details and not plot holes, that want the engineer story, that want xeno origin trully explained,how was it done,where was its origin pretty much filling a bit the holes prometheus left. Who made the engineers.  What are they..comfirmations etc.

A normal fan sees a4 and loves it...a hardcore fan sees a4 and "hates" it even tho its still popcorn.

Best way i can put it^^

So would you count someone like myself, who has studied the films extensively for over 30 years, discussed them online for nearly 20 years, and worked with Fox on a number of things such as Alien Day Twitter trivia competition and the Weyland Yutani Report - a "hardcore fan"?

@ MuzzleNZ

I hope it does.i hope leaks are just bullshit.

I am waiting 23 years myself since i was able to see alien as a kid to get an answer..a really good answer..and what im percieving from Ac recently is revolting because i want the story to be the best possible.and treated like so we all want that...and when i see a guy directing it treating it like something he can make up after 30years and change in 2 years and then change it again to something completly diferent and you end up with..." wtf is this ridley?" I wait 30 years for this?. Its prolly to be the biggest reveal in film history.the longest of them all.

So ye if i enjoy ac ill be the first in here praising him..till then i just cant trust this guy as i trust cameron or blomkamp

S.M

Oh yes.trully.

Then your definition is complete sneering exclusionary garbage.

Why? As a hardcore fan what do you want? What was a4 for you