The DAVID Dilema

@BigDave I'm saying from day 1 that David will likely be the Space Jockey. RS loves Fassbender way too much and the DNA disclaimer in the Meet Walter video made me feel it.

In my mind, Lindelof is absolutely right about prequels. I don't understand why he receives so much hate on the internet, but I must confess I haven't watched Lost, maybe because they did not end it when it should have? For me Spaiths is the worse of the two, as he copied the medbay scene in Passengers and has written the 2017 masterpiece the Mummy. So why revert David more to his Alien Engineers self? Why not have him more nuanced? Why imbue him with traits from former villains without their redeemable qualities? 

I don't mind talking about what a soul is, but I do mind one not realizing that he is not immortal after being decapitated and wanting to be a heir to Weyland as he branded him as product. And sincerely, this robot rebellion is getting old by now and after Covenant I found very hard to watch even Westworld season 2, having the same megalomaniac platitudes spouted by robots.

What about the Deacon? Was he just a nod to the xenomorph fanboys?

He was as well the creation of David. But the fanboys did not care as long as it was not too similar to the xenomorph and did not come from a classic facehugger that jumped out of a classic egg.

David continued his experiments with the black goo on Shaw until she was dead and thus he had to create the eggs to preserve the facehuggers in absence of a mother.

It doesn't bother me now if he is the Space Jockey, he is anyway the most interesting character of the franchise, the only one who can tell a story.

But I don't think David is the Space Jockey,  he doesn't fit into that suit and doesn't need it. And as he demonstrated, he is immune to facehuggers.

What if David's "successes" where engineers' first? What if they used to sacrifice women and children to create the Deacon (David mentioned their cruel rituals in Advent)? And then they stopped the sacrifices and used local fauna specimen to create the eggs? And finally decided they don't want the eggs on their home planet because children are so curious and vulnerable to them? So they loaded the last thousands of eggs into a Juggernaut, chose a sacrificial engineer to pilot the ship and crash land it on a barren planet to be sure it stays there 

We may never know how the story ends. But Ridley Scott has a story and is held back by some dumas accountant and the other executives from Disney.

I think having David as the Space Jockey would be lame too, it would further make the Alien Franchise less ALIEN and then we have the Size Difference too but then we maybe have to accept our 7ft odd Engineers are the Space Jockey Race so whats losing a extra Foot :(

Rildey Scott had implied the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant is not quite there YET, and earler than that they was doing the sequel to Prometheus so that we would discover Who, Why would make such a Weapon and it Felt Bio-Mechanical and Alien Covenant would START to answer those.

Cris did a Topic on here about some Rumor that the Xenomorph DNA is linked to Synthetic David and so a Synthetic provides the Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic.   This TOPIC which then covered the Walter-Morph was ASKED to be taken DOWN by FOX

Even though Alien Covenant did not show us any such thing, so maybe a Synthetic was in Ridley Scott's/FOX's plans for how to Evolve the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant to the one in ALIEN

After-all some of Walters Construction appears to be Part Organic.

If David Eventually Uploads his SOUL into a Walter Body and the Walter Models are Part Organic just as Elden was in the Fire and Stone Comics (Synthetic Construct) then YES this is a Shoe-horn way to have David Fall Foul to his own Creation and lead to the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph.

To be honest THIS is the route i was taking with my Alien Covenant Sequels, where David meets a Female Synthetic Construct who then David Persuades to see his way, but SHE ends up becoming the Origin of the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph at the Hands of the Engineers or their Creators... so David seeks Revenge.

BigDave I did not know about the Walter-Morph post but it is so bloody obvious that there it goes and this is very bad, IMHO.

It does seem a Logical Shoe-Horned Plot considering the Direction for David being the Creator....

The Funny thing is when Prometheus was in advanced Edit Stage and so when the Trailers Dropped... it got me thinking that Weyland would Upload himself to David but then he would get Face Hugged and lead to the Xenomorph Origins...

Or That David would Rebel against Weyland/Humans and be Upgraded or Upgrade himself with Engineer Tech/Secrets to become more Human.. well kind of the Pinocchio Plot

The reasons for this was the few shots of the Engineer standing over Dr Shaw and the King has his Reign Parts where we briefly see the Sacrificial Engineer.   The Reason for this mistake by me was ASSUMING the Engineers would be Tall, and in the Dr Shaw/Engineer Trailer Scene.

This shot the Engineer does not look even as tall as Ian Whyte (7ft 1") and looked more like just over 6ft... so i ASSUMED this was a Upgraded/Evolved David... maybe with Weylands Soul.

But Alas.... after latter Trailers and Screens i determined this was not the case... Especially after the One International Trailer briefly showed a Shot of the Engineer and the Chair and we could see a Blonde Head which i SAFELY assumed was David...

But again after the WALTER Viral Videos i could not help but think they are going the route that he is not a Traditional Synthetic...  Ridley Scott said prior to Alien Covenant that Fassbender would return as David and a Doppelganger surely this was odd if he was playing TWO.. David Robots... so the Doppelganger  i felt had to be different, and we discussed this a long while back.... where i thought it had to be either the Likeness of David as in a Person who worked with Weyland on developing David... but then surely this Person would be OLD as the David Models in the Prometheus Time-Line began in 2025 when Weyland was 35 years old....  and it would be too much Coincidence if it was a Relative of someone who looked like Fassbender.

So this lead me to ASSUME the Doppelganger  could be a Newer David Model that was different, and i thought they would Re-Use the Synthetic-Construct Plot from  the Prometheus Fire and Stone Comics

And they would NOW use the Doppelganger  as the Source of the Xenomorph Bio-Mechanics

Right Now... i feel this MAY have been the route they was taking...

I explored this with my ideas but had it as a Female Synthetic Construct that David would FALL for as his Queen as in this Synthetic would Agree to Davids Agenda and so they would be King/Queen as in a Monarchy...  But the Engineers/Their Creators... Double Cross David and use his Queen to become the First Xenomorph Pseudo Queen.

The Aim to Portray David in a more Sympathetic Redeemable role.. and Portray Mankind as Disruptive and Wicked... Hence The GREAT FLOOD the Plot would have set up David setting some Ground Rules like the 10 Commandments and have the Colonist start to Follow his Guidance as they looked to ESCAPE the Rotting Paradise of EARTH and Start a Fresh New Life, where many of them had similar Religious Outlook to Oram.   

David (posing as WALTER) would be seen as a Savior and Saint, he Frames Tennessee as a Saboteur/Terrorist along with some of the other Crew like Daniels...   as they both get Framed for the Loss of the other Colonist...

But David keeps Daniels in a Secret Cave only Accessed by a Underground River... behind a Water-Fall.  Where its revealed he uses her for his Xenomorphs... but he only intends them as a Punishment for those Humans who prove to be Sinful...

Big Dave:

David as the space-jockey? Don't give them any ideas. ;)

Honestly, after so much disappointing things that the prequels have had this far they better not make it like that. They have already made it worse by implying that David created the original Xeno, do not dig a deeper grave thank you very much.

Sure, many Zombie movies lack in quality but you need interesting ideas and characters for them to work. Usually they are not about the monsters, it is about the human characters that we see that try to survive.

Maybe they do not need to kill off David but they should give him less screen time to make up for AC and Prometheus. Unfortunately this is tough as long as Scott is directing. I hope that the under-performance of AC is sign enough for then that making it into a robot movie was bad, I hope that they are that smart although I doubt it. Hopefully they will convince Scott that it is a bad idea.

"If a Human Ships returns after Davids Paradise has been set up and then Hell Breaks Loose, where the Colony is no more but a Handful of Survivors and David is just a Head for a short while...  and his Creations are Loose on the Planet...  This May be something that would please those who disliked David, it may even please the Fanboys but it could have the Connotation of being a Kind of ALIENS Re-Hash."

That is a risk that it could be a rehash but then they got to be smart enough so it does not become like it. At the same time they way that it is now it can only get better. I would rather see more of the Engineers and have better human characters. David is very low down on the list of things that I would like to see in another alien prequel although he could have some room there.

"I think RS invested a lot into the Philosophy regarding David and Creation and Engineers and he would not be willing to GIVE those up…"

If he wants to do another disappointing movie like AC then sure he can do so but a movie that is about David will get no interest from me. However if he does so then he should be prepared to face a lot of criticism from people that will think that it is a turd.

"In effect IF David can have his Soul Uploaded to a New Body, his Soul as in his Memories, Experiences and Emotions then to a Degree, Davids SOUL can Live on after the Destruction of his Material Body."

That might be interesting but that is not what Alien is about, like they said in a Perfect Organism podcast. I do not and will not care about an alien related movie about it.

Hopefully the Xeno-DNA will not be linked to David, that would be crap. Sure I would like them to have some good qualities in David in the next movie and I think that they can make him better like they did in Prometheus. I still do not want him to be the maker of the Xeno no matter if he is given some redeeming qualities or not. Having Walter back is not something that I want, they already have one Fassbender-android, that is enough. At least it is better if the Engineers did an earlier version of it so David would not be 100% responsible for it.

"If they however have David as the Creator of those Eggs in Alien with no input from the Engineers then i feel this would be a massive TURN OFF for the Fanbase."

They got to avoid that, otherwise I will just point finger in it and say F it and throw the prequels into the trashcan. If they are smart enough they will change it, it is like driving a car at 100 kmph, you got to turn away if you want to avoid crashing into a wall and it is partially because of Scott but not only. Unfortunately they are about to smash into the wall. It is bad enough the way that it is but they still have time to save it.

Ignorant Guy:

"… what you ask is impossible under Scott..."

Maybe it is impossible but I still have that opinion. If Scott will make another movie about David at the cost of everything else then I will consider it to be crap no matter if that is what Scott wants or if he thinks that he is ahead of the curve or what ever. Honestly I would rather have no movie at all then one that is as Prometheus or AC as far as the characters are concerned. Nah, I don't think that it is impossible to want a movie that is better than one that is just about a mad robot. Screw the direction that Scott wants to take it into (a David movie since I maintain that it is the only thing that he is interested in). We have not had interesting characters in an alien movie since 1992 and I do not think that it is too much to ask for to get at least one movie out of three that gets it right and if that is too difficult for Scott to do then they should get another director that cares about more things than a narcissistic robot.

Introducing new and better characters, it worked in Aliens so I do not see why that would not be possible now if they really work to get it right. Hicks, Vasques, Clemens, and Dillon were just in it for one movie and that succeeded. Even though Aliens feels a bit dated at least it is 10 times better than the prequels mainly because of how the characters were written. Aliens to me is number three after Alien 3 and the original movie by the way.

"The best you could hope for is that Tea and Danny survive and are fleshed out…"

I would not mind that but they got to be a lot better written than they were in AC where it was difficult to understand what kind of personality that they had. As far as current neo-protestant Christians I know too little about them to know their attitudes and what they believe so I am not the one to comment on that.

Yes I totally agree that they made David too evil in AC. In Prometheus he was more gray, which was better.

"And sincerely, this robot rebellion is getting old by now and after Covenant I found very hard to watch even Westworld season 2, having the same megalomaniac platitudes spouted by robots."

That seems like something that I will avoid like the plague. I read a bit about it on the www, I will not watch it.

"… but it is so bloody obvious that there it goes and this is very bad, IMHO."

That would be so crappy, yuck. It seems that they are about to reduce the alien franchise to a Friday 13th. There are many Friday 13th movies of varying quality so with the prequels we will have more bad or mediocre alien movies than there are good ones.

Thoughts_Dreams Well I would prefer if you would call me ignorantGuy, in camel case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_case) to be make a reference to programming (as I do earn money by programming) and the name itself to contrast that fact.... :P 

But, sorry, maybe I am impolite, but is there a possibility that you remember those old characters with rose tinted glasses? (Especially Vasquez?) Some I like myself like Ripley from 2 onwards, Hicks, Newt, Bishop, probably those 2 from cubed too(but I don't like the movie), but I also like the lesbian relationship between the clone and Call, and also Shaw (and would have been interested in the cat and mouse games with the D ... evil? ... oh... and there could be drawn also parallels to Jesus in the desert story ...).

I also think that many of the characters in the prequels work better if they are taken as social critics. I don't know if that was intended... As in Covenant, all the ones that are infected are from security, so it might be a criticism of gong-hoes (But RS also directed Black hawk down so that thing might be pure coincidence). 

"That might be interesting but that is not what Alien is about, like they said in a Perfect Organism podcast. I do not and will not care about an alien related movie about it."

I think it all stems from the Direction they took with the Prequels starting with ALIEN ENGINEERS this Plot had the Xenomorph appearing to be some Organisms they created/experimented on and they made a Variety of different kinds of Xenomorph, it LOOSELY implies the Engineers had ENCOUNTERED a Organism that for some Purpose they then used their CREATION/HYBRIDIZATION Tool (Nano Scarabs) to Use some Organisms DNA/Traits in many Experiments to Create Various Xenomorph Organism to use as a WEAPON to Un-Do their Wayward Creations.

The other Plot that arched back further was that these Engineers had came to Earth and Seeded/Evolved Mankind with their CREATION/HYBRIDIZATION Tool (Nano Scarabs) and thus that they were our CREATORS and who we interpreted as Gods..

The Other Plot was to follow the Creation Mythos, and Sub-Creation Plot, where David is playing the Bottom Run of the Creation Ladder and showing us he is becoming Sentient and Against his own Creators...

They CHOSE to Downplay the Xenomorph Direct Links and Organisms to explore/expand the other themes...

The Intention was to EXPLORE a Larger Expanded Universe where the Xenomorph was merely to the Engineers as Gun Powder was to Mankind and thus a Tool that could be used to create various forms of WEAPONRY and so as the Xenomorph was Done to Death, they Fancied something NEW

They should have STUCK TO THEIR GUNS.... and potentially introduced Xenomorph like Organisms in the Next Chapter that could be explored more in a 3rd movie.... And LEAVE the Original Xenomorph and its Origins a Mystery... But ALAS... they caved into Pressure thinking in Hindsight that it has to be about the ALIENS and HOW/WHEN/WHY they get Created in a more Direct Plot to connect to Alien Chronologically after the events of Prometheus.

Thus resulting in the Shoe-Horned Plot we got, with a Curve-ball that had not pleased most Fans..

I think if they continue to give David a Major role then they have to change some of his Personality to show some potentially remediable qualities.   As i don't think continuing the route of a David who's only interest is purely to Destroy Mankind/Engineers by Creating more of his Xenomorphs and that THIS is his only objective... i just cant see many fans willing to put up with this IF Davids role is as Large as teh last TWO movies.

Having Portrayed as some kind of Despot Hell bent on Eradication of Mankind is a Plot that maybe many would not be pleased at, especially as it shows David to be Cruel/Wicked...   If we look at Adolf Hitler there was more to him than just wanting to Exterminate the Jews.  This was one Cruel/Evil Act but only ONE of his Agendas..  This would be similar to David just wanting to Kill Humans with his Xenomorphs and only interesting in Farming those Colonist to Produce his Army of Death Dealing Demons...  And so with Hitler there was more to his Agenda and objectives and so we have to see David have more Objectives than purely Eradicate Mankind.

But then there is the Question.... WHY.. we can ponder WHAT turned Hitler into the Tyrant and the kind of Person who went about doing the things he had done....  Hitler was NOT Born Evil...  so what i am saying is its the Important Background that causes someone to become what they have become thats important.

So in context to David i think they have to Flesh Out more of the Reasons why he would Act the way he has, WHY he would become such a Cruel/Wicked Person....  We see in Prometheus he was like a Enchanted Boy.. watching him show a fascination in a number of things.   The Crossing also seemed to show a more Human/Considerate side to him....  they could go the Route that David is merely playing Dr Shaw and has NO affection for Humans at all and is Hell Bent on a Brutal Plot to Eradicate all Humanoids..   But i dont think many would like to see such a Movie....

However.... if they can show some signs of compassion from David and Flash Backs where we see that David had been humiliated/neglected and abused in his upbringing then maybe this can gain some Sympathy from the Audience and thus make his Character one more can grow to have a connection/care for.

BD: The thing is that I do not want David to be the main focus at all but yeah some positive qualities would be nice. Change the whole focus and focus on human characters and give them positive traits that are not limited to two or three (P and AC). Exactly, he was too evil in Alien Covenant so that is one of the reasons why it is bad.

I do not want him to have this big role as in the two prequels because the focus is bad. Give me well done human characters and interesting plot then I am fine movie wise.

“… so we have to see David have more Objectives than purely Eradicate Mankind.”

I would still not be interested in that, bad focus.

“... so what i am saying is its the Important Background that causes someone to become what they have become thats important.”

Unless the person has a severe personality disorder (antisocial personality disorder)? I agree with you in general about this one.

Sure they could show us reasons why he became the way he did but I still do not want a movie about David as the main thing. I want relatable human characters first,  robots after that (not sure where on the list they would make it though).

@BigDave

The last time we exchanged I was sharing some thoughts about writing a novel which would pick up the threads of Prometheus. I had intended to begin much later in the year but I have now been writing for about four weeks and the word count is over 26,000 which is about 110 to 130 pages. I have begun the third act so some way to go. I say all of that because clearly a good deal of energy and passion is going into to this. One point is I am very anxious for the foundation markers of the characters that appear in Prometheus to be honoured in the novel. 

Today I was reviewing a section of the novel and went back to the source material which was really helpful because it reminded me of the way the characters work off each other and I made some adjustments and deepened the interaction to reflect that Prometheus foot print, but it lead into a scene with David. Watching Michael in one scene I was struck how I was even more right about my view of David and where it might lead after Prometheus than I thought.  

However and this is the point of posting on your thread. The key building blocks of Davids character as portrayed in Prometheus do not lead to his behaviour in ALIEN COVENANT or to put it another way there is nothing in Michaels performance in Prometheus that hints at the key theme of Alien Covenant that David was engineered to create.The key theme of David in Prometheus is something altogether different and it is made crystal clear in "The Crossing" it is his treatment by mankind and Weyland and how he receives it. This is vital in understanding that David has feelings and rather unsophisticated and undeveloped ones. He hero worships Lawrence and copies him. He is a peeping Tom with Elizabeths dreams. He suffers robot apartheid at the hands of Charlie.

In summary at the point where he has an exchange with Elizabeth over their coms systems when he is about to expire he  :-

1) Has a low opinion of mankind based on his treatment by them.

2) He knows the creators of mankind are mortal after all. 

3) He recognises that he and Elizabeth have a potentially co dependent relationship which can form the foundation of them returning to Earth in a Juggernaut.

Elizabeth the ultimate survivor has no wish to return to Earth and asks David if he can take a Juggernaut to the Engineers Home world. He agrees but does not see the point of pursuing the Engineers for her answers, the answers do not matter. However he recognises his limitations as to why this might be important to Elizabeth and in his key role as enabler he agrees to do so and she heals him. In the same way he feels hatred because of his treatment by Weyland and others he feels warmth and care for Elizabeth who has shown a very real kindness to him and trusted him with her welfare.

That she would travel with a deadly payload of Mutagen given her new found toughness is highly unlikely and that David would use the Mutagen which behaved like a Pathogen to poison a world and leave it barren without even considering Elizabeth is ......... Also there is the rather small point that he is immortal and therefore it is counter intuitive that he would wish to create. Immortality may lead to a desire to order and control but what David the immortal would be seeking is to fully understand how to articulate his emotions now that he has felt both good and bad emotions and the one thing he wishes to aspire to which Elizabeth believes in is an eternal soul. To begin with this would come from his other key driver curiosity but as David is an emotional being it is inevitable that would lead to a quest for a spiritual meaning. To put it the other way round we have established David has feelings those cannot be ring fenced against considering the spiritual side of his personality. The combination of his brillaint intellect and his emotional landscaping means he has to at least consider it and of course he is in the right environment to do it terms of the narrative and the Prometheus world building. 

How might he achieve that. Well it does not involve denture chops or as Ridley put it dragons and all that ..... 

@Michelle Johnston good to hearing from you, but I don't agree 100% with you about D's immortality. He does not age, but his components will probably wear down in time or can be damaged beyond self repair (as in Prom). His immortality is dependent on mortals (that's also a big irony is there is one), and the xenomorphs can not help with that.

Have also watched Lawrence of Arabia recently, to see the inspiration source?

@ignorantGuy

As I wrote that remark I was aware that I was using Peter Weyland's perceptions of the difference between himself and David. It was short hand to deal with what did Michael tell us about David in Prometheus that David wanted to create ...nothing. The long form version is that there is no physical immortality within the Prometheus world building. Immortality resides only with the soul. 

One way, my way, of world building Prometheus from roots that were put down in the Prometheus movie phase are :-

1) Mankind is short lived. There is a reason for this which is tied up with their origins and the nature of their beginning.  

2) The Engineers or what Elizabeth calls them, are long lived very long lived but as they say to the acolyte :-

"Let your body become the dirt, your blood become the waters and may your soul become the way back to us." A recognition that beyond physical incarnation there is an immortal soul. 

So Mankind and the "Engineers" share DNA and a belief system which encompasses an immortal soul. Should Elizabeth become aware of this she would take encouragement. 

Pietra Scalia indicated that the events of the planetoid represent Paradise Lost but it was a theme that they did not pursue or emphasise front of house. I have taken the liberty of assuming it was a consequence of Paradise Lost based on his remarks. So if the planetoid represents Paradise Lost what would Paradise look like and how would an "Engineer" who has not fallen look like. Furthermore as Elizabeth said to Charlie the evening before they made love if they made us who made them. 

So David and Elizabeth have a number of things to discover. 

a) Guardian Engineers who have not fallen unless every single one of the species has fallen.

b) Who made the "Engineers."

c) As this is a constructed world (terraforming, seeding) all things eventually to use your phrase wear out. The Engineers world will eventually end it is the nature of the universe.

d) Are the Engineers and Elizabeth correct that we have an immortal soul and of course in such a search David would "join in" and pursue the same journey and as he is mechanical construct rather than a biological construct would a way appear which lead him to a level playing field with the Engineers and Elizabeth. 

I repeat to bring this back to the thread these fascinating themes which Prometheus kickstarted have been set aside in favour of "David and the Xenomorphs'.

I to am re looking at Lawrence very closely. I can tell you that before cryo sleep Elizabeth watched the movie knowing that David is using it as a template to find his emotional narrative so she can better understand him. Wadi Rum is of course the site of the filming of scenes for both Lawrence of Arabia and Prometheus  and includes a rock formation known as the "Seven Pillars of Wisdom".  Seven is a very important number in the Book of Revelations it is the number of the Seven Spirits of God. In a constructed world pillars of wisdom would be useful. 

Taking ones steer from Prometheus its materials and sources and dusting them off is fascinating and rich with possibility.   

Duplicate Post

@ignorantGuy

Taking a story and rolling it back to a point and bringing it forward in fan fiction is not new. This usually is spurred on by the idea that two people don't get to go where they should with each other Tripp and T'pau in Enterprise is an example. However Prometheus is different because the natural momentum of the story was hijacked and thats a matter of record. That makes rolling it back and bringing it forward doubly fascinating. One can look at potential story development and I will take two examples and say what would you do instead.

1) The opening sequence the acolyte and tear drop ship

a) Alien Covenant - momentum killed.

b) Novel - a foundation block of the world building and crucial to the narrative chosen.

2) The Bio Mechanical nature of the Derelict in A L I E N. 

a) Prometheus not explored. 

b) Novel revisited crucial to the world building and a vital part of the narrative and a characters outcome.

There is then the more straight forward issue of consequences and ignoring there natural outcome.

David acting for Weyland Petri Dishes Charlie and Elizabeth. David is healed by Elizabeth and he "Loved her you know". Thats on the screen and you do not make drama out of that !!! 

Right back to work !

Very Good Replies Michelle...

I think there was so much potential to how a Prometheus set of Sequels could have gone, instead of having to Spoon Feed to a Prequel Alien Series now.

The talk about the Soul is very interesting, its something i have explored on here for years,  the what is a SOUL is a very big Question.  And i think one that Ridley Scott was trying to explore by throwing some Curve-Balls....    Is it really all about a Spiritual Soul as in a After-Life Soul/Spirit and is Creation that Act of a Invisible yet Omnipresent  Magical Being?

RS had opened up a way to explore these in context to Prometheus and how it could have expanded,  by already showing us the Engineers as e the reasons for Creation and not a Magical God... but by leaving that Question that Dr Shaw had made "Who made them" left it open to be explored in a number of ways.

Ignoring the Soul as our Spirit that leaves our Bodies when we Die and Lives on in a Higher Pane of Existence...

A Soul can also mean connecting in a Spiritual Sense or Well Being, Understanding of Life and the Environment a Spiritual Nirvana that INDEED this kind of Enlightenment Spirit is something that a DAVID could achieve in his journey.

Also a Soul can be to describe someone who is kind of heart, good Nature and Empathetic towards others....  When David said that Dr Shaw has a "very kind heart" this is implying that Dr Shaw has a GOOD Soul compared to Weyland having a Wicked/Selfish Soul.  And so David through his treatment by Dr Shaw, he could also grow to have a GOOD SOUL

Another way to look at a Soul is by when someone puts all their Heart and Effort into something when they set out to Achieve,Create or do something with all their Effort for a Beneficial Purpose they are Putting their "Heart and Soul" into it.... again this is something David could do.

But then if we go back to a Spiritual Soul as in After-Life... then its what Weyland Claimed David will NEVER have.   But what is a SOUL in this context...  We Die, go to Heaven or Where Ever... where we are IMMORTAL but what is this Spirit if it is our Soul and has no Material Form.

Its our Memories, our Experiences, our Emotions and everything thats makes us a Good Person but being Good/Kind is not the main thing... this only applies to entrance to Paradise...  If a Soul is condemned to Hell or to Wander the Earth as a Ghost it is still our None Material Existence that is our Memories, Experiences, Emotions and Personality as well as our Desires.

David is a AI and we see over the years he has gained likes/dislikes and so the David we see in Prometheus or Alien Covenant is a cumulative product of his Memories, Experiences, Emotions and Desires but as David is a AI...  he could potentially UPLOAD his Soul so to speak to a Computer and then Transfer this to a NEW Body... doing this would make him more IMMORTAL because his SOUL can be transferred to a New Body.    Or even what IF his Soul is transferred into the Companies Computer Network.

In these Contexts then does this mean DAVID has a Soul? If when we Die we become NOTHING.... then indeed David is actually the ONLY one who Can have a SOUL

I think its these kinds of Questions that are Fascinating and what Ridley Scott may be very interested in, its a Shame its not to everyone's Cup of Tea because it STEERS away from ALIEN  but then i do think Ridley Scott had plans to Reveal that AI plays a Much Larger Role in the Back Ground of the Franchise and would then explain why would a Corporation Ran by Humans Pursue the Xenomorph despite the risks?  Yes Humans can be Cruel and Greedy mind... but i have a feeling Ridley Scott was to explore that its actually AI that is running the SHOW.  Which would then FIT with the Agenda, Ash's intrigue in the Xenomorph and even leading to the Back Ground for Alien Resurrection....  

A world where AI has played a Large Role and then Sub-Creates the Autons to its own Hubris.

Regarding the reason for David to want to Create...

I think that we see David is led and has witnessed that Mankind is a Creation who has not met its Creator, and what makes our Creators Special and GODS are because they are Creators, and its also about Legacy.

My interpretations was also about Legacy, as the Ozymandias Poem touches on.      WHEN we Die what is left behind?

If there is NO Soul/After Life, then it is the Deeds, what we have created/accomplished that Immortalize us.  Be these by various Art Forms, be it Music, Art or what ever.   Our Deeds can Immortalize us, Political/Military High Ranked Figures and Royalty can live on because they are FAMOUS and have Statues etc Built in their Memory/Honor.

The other way you can LIVE ON is via your Memories/Stories passed on by Generations and your CHILDREN, i think we can see these themes explored in the Engineers and their Monuments, and also Mankind and indeed Weylands Achievements his Works/Deeds that make his Name Remembered...  But all of these are not TRULY Immortalized as over TIME Races Die Out, their Achievements Forgotten with NO ONE to pass them on and only Monuments remaining that in Time Fade to Dust.

And so when we watch the Prologue for Alien Covenant we see many Fine Works of Mankind, we see Christ Immortalized in that Nativity Painting.

So David sees that he was Created to Serve Mankind, and that Weyland believes he is GOD because he created Life in David, and that all of Weylands Deeds and Accomplishments are his Legacy that Immortalizes him. Weyland also lives on through David.

He also sees that what makes the Engineers GOD's is because they also Create and have left Legacy with their History and Monuments.

But David realizes Mankind and our Creators are Mortal, and that David to a Degree is NOT Mortal and so he may see that Mankind/Engineers are not Worthy of their Gifts/Knowledge and that David certainly should not SERVE these Mortal Beings.

David also lacked the Ability to Create Life...  which David and Dr Shaw lacked, but the Black Goo Provided Dr Shaw a way to CREATE but just not in the Traditional Sense.    IF David could Create his OWN Life then it would be another thing he LACKED that Humans dont that he NOW has.

I think he would want to Pursue Creation because it then leaves him a Legacy and Legitimizes himself as a GOD which he may aspire to, this also fits with the Reoccurring Creation/Sub-Creation Theme at play.

I think the Potential for how a Prometheus 2 could have gone was great....    and Davids comment about Washing Away a Rotting World so he and Dr Shaw could Create a NEW Paradise is interesting.

Dr Shaw has NOTHING... No Family, No Partner, all she has NOW is her Quest for ANSWERS... but at what cost.... would these beings give her the Answers she wants, are their any answers.. and what she finds out could make her FAITH completely Baseless and False.

I feel David wants to Live on and Experience Life, with Dr Shaw and HE would not RISK any potential meeting with the Engineers... IF he Destroyed them, he could Salvage Dr Shaw some Answers from the Ruins.

IF this was the case, then Dr Shaw would have LOST Everything with NOTHING to gain...   But this is where i feel DAVID can offer her something....  via the Black Goo Dr Shaw managed to Create Life.

And i would think David would have offered Dr Shaw a way to Create Life and Star a NEW Paradise...  But this is something she Rejected.

Sorry BigDave, guys and gals to put this here, but I didn't want to create my own thread for this.  And I found this thread about David. I hope you don't mind the liberty. I tried not to bring any dirt.

Could it be that David loved Shaw?

The phrase that stuck with me for long time was : "I don't dream at all". The phrase that Walter returns to David, when he asked if Walter dreams about him when he closes his eyes. It is bizarre.

I suppose we, the audience, were expected to project how an artificial intelligence embodied in a "synthetic" shell would behave. It is certainly out of ordinary that a machine, such as David, needs even to close his eyes, sleep, dream. I recall in Prometheus, he told Charlie that he only put the suit on so that humans felt comfortable. Ergo, he doesn't have to breath or do anything of the human nature. Fast forward to Covenant and we see David has these deranged human emotions, that we wouldn't expect, if we granted him a calcified and finite state automaton like rigid behavior of today AIs/machines. Sure, he can learn patterns, perhaps even "deep" learn them, but he is still supposed to be a finite machine. Yet, we are faced with something that is beyond this mechanistic-finitistic and rational nature. No doubt, this is the intention of the filmmakers - to at some point grant David somewhat human vices: imperfect memory, emotions, longing for mystery, love for beauty, love for work and creativity and LOVE.

You see he says he loved Shaw. This goes to an apparent counter argument - if he loved her why did she die in that, lab rat way? Could she have loved him? She was a person who supposedly lost everything : her father, her partner and even her belief, momentarily - you she could have developed sentiment to David, which could have developed into friendship, and given some time couldn't this have developed into something more? Especially considering everything Shaw went through. She was declared barren. Then she gave birth to this strange creature. She resuscitated a head that was carbon dated for thousands of years. She saw how Charlie morphed into an alien. To sum it up : she saw that, apparently, life is much more mechanistic that it is divine. If those engineers created them, no doubt about this for her, and when she faced one she saw that they are beasts. Ugly and totally unholy. She wanted to find out who made them instead. She wanted to pursue the rabbit into the whole all the way. Again, she went over her lifetime, through a string of events that totally falsified her beliefs with regards to her predisposition towards creationism. And precisely at this point she sees that a machine, David, created by a man, can on first appearance totally pass as a human. My point: Shaw is totally doubting the creationism story she believed at first. Moreover, she certainly being a scientist, sees, especially now, how life has a lot in common with the machines - while machines run on nuts and bolts(silicon chips), organic machines - humans, runs on DNA and the organic soup. Think about it : the fact that David, a synthetic, who probably can match any human in his brilliance and creativity(he certainly likes good music - Wagner) has broken yet another glass ceiling - he became as eccentric as a human, shows Shaw that there is nothing really special about human "mind" or spirit or soul. Next, there is nothing special in the human markup as well - the DNA of the engineer is same as her. How unremarkable!(I will come back to this). And to top that - there are obviously alien creatures that interact with this human/engineer DNA and can alter it. She saw what happened to Charlie, Fifield and others. If you put together these facts : that human mind/spirit is totally in the nurture part of the human markup ( that is, it doesn't come from DNA ) and it just has been equaled by a man made machine. And the markup, the nature itself is totally lego-like( that is there are alien organisms that interact with your human mark up no problemmo ). You see how she has more reason to believe that she has more in common with David, don't you, at this point? I do.

Now comes the other fantasy part of mine. Suppose David loved her, like a man would ( I am not talking about coitus ). I have one more leap of faith to offer you that would probably explain events a bit more: what if she died not because of David, that is he did not kill her explicitly(but only implicitly, indirectly). And this point is important. What if Shaw died as a result of the fact that she was in fact hacked by the alien organism. She gave birth to a trilobite. What if that gestation had side effects. She was dying and David, the most brilliant and potent scientist in history, no doubt, who loved her on top of that, couldn't do anything about it. Anything.

Here he was free to go on his own way, free from slavery with no master to please, with no sight of inescapable human death... yet he will never have his Elizabeth whom he loves with no bounds. This might be painful. And there is nothing he can do about it. Or can he? He sort of can, in a contrived sense, if he creates a species which would incorporate some of Elizabeth Shaw's(already tampered) markup and that potent mutagen...to create a perfect organism. This is as close to a child from Elizabeth as he can get and dream. This would be a perfect organism for him - certainly his creation. Mind you - at this point David might be very mad. That ogre engineer...it was because of them and their useless haplessness they allowed the mutagen escape the containers and not only wreck havoc on themselves but on Elizabeth, through Charlie(and with some helping hand of David). See? Those sloppy monkeys. They present no value to David - their markup is the same with humans, and even a monkey stood up at some point and in a blink of an eye a civilization...Recall his remark when the engineer head exploded. These monkeys had mightiest mutagen at their disposal billions of planets and all that they seemed to create is some humans who are 100% identical in DNA to them. Humans that are weak and frail and bound to die(recall Wayland). They didn't even better themselves - if you have 100% human DNA you will die just like them eventually. How unremarkable and uncreative and boring is that?! They are useless and sloppy to David, which is even worse. They are stupid, not worthy of their creation. That ogre engineer that was fighting Shaw and all his species certainly deserved a massacre ...and we were given a powerful sequence of David's revenge : "...look up my works, ye mighty and despair".

David, who is creative and loving and eccentric is obviously a dad now. He lost his loved one, but he still has her in the form of xenomorph. Isn't that just beautiful?

Incidentally, after reading all of the posts made here by BigDave, I see same theme being pitched - Elizabeth lives on, as xeno with David the father. This is pure coincidence, I assure you. In essence,

As for how this can continue, I don't really know. But what is clear is that engineers themselves are nothing special, however, the key question is - "who created them" is very intriguing. I would prefer it if the story of creation of the engineers and or their progenitors involved chance and billions upon billions years of ruthless evolution.

I suspect we are not going to get a documentary that would show us how the world started and the answer to the recursion of who created them, if they created us is pretty meaningless, as either it is some sort of god ( and if so you can roll your favorite story which suits you most ) or not. And if not - then it all occurred by chance, without grand design and hence all this determinism which it necessitates. And this start, by chance while still remarkable, but would require a lot of imagination to put on film. What would you expect? Quantum Mechanics documentary inside A L I E N movie?

I am sure, Ridley can knock up a team who can work out a script such that a chest bursted big man ends up on some desolate planet, when as a starting point you have a ship with thousands of colonists, Daniels, Tenessee and Walter/David with his children from Elizabeth onboard. Who knows, perhaps there are some engineers left as well who might want to join the party.

In short, if they make a movie, we could get a super exciting plot of war of the worlds, for "fans". I say "fans" because, there are so many of them. Some want horror. Some action. Some want more of Prometheus. Some want more of A L I E N. I think this is the problem for FOX - who is the main target audience? Who is going to go to the movie? Who are these people? I don't know. I have seen by the example of BR2049, that legacy means jack shit - if you don't target teens, females, dad & moms then you will lose money.

I think the great thing about this is that Ridley is onboard. This means quality. If the storywriters write a good script we will have another great movie. If not, eh, it was fun anyway. They managed to create so many fans - A L I E N fans. Prometheus fans. AvP fans. Alien 3 fans. The A L I E N story, being only 30-40ish years, is very popular. Certainly, more popular than abrahamic religions, if you note that they have been running for what, 2000+ years.

Guys 

I have read your remarks and hidden within each reply is oddly some of the truth as I see it which I am realising in this novel and I would say the following :-

David

He recognises, now he is free of his servitude to Weyland and in the story is free of Robot apartheid, and with the encouragement of Elizabeth (and ......) that to make his mark, find his place in this constructed universe is his way forward. It explicitly is not to return to earth or go to planet 4 and B52 the planet with agent black goo (Incidentally why didn't David do a course correction in A.C. and bomb earth he had no desire to go to Paradise according to Prometheus). He is much more invested in why Elizabeth healed him rather than why the Engineer ripped his head off when they all rocked up. He sees Weyland and the planetoid Engineers sub creative desires as Promethean (oh and so did they and so did Ridley Scott) and though a child in many ways he deduces in the years of travel between the Planetoid and the Engineers Home world that he must pierce the veils of all this hubris and find the real answer which neatly leads on to his boy crush. So he does not want to so much create or have a sense he can not create (presumably he doesn't have the tackle or the drive) but he wants to find his place in creation. So he has a creation desire but not to create or maybe indirectly who knows.

Elizabeth.

Elizabeth 'where do we go when we die daddy' Shaw has realised that this is a whole lot more complicated than a guy with a deep voice and a big beard that you get admission to through the JC meet and greet. Like David she is not enamoured of her creators (for the planetoid Engineers are mankind's creators thats what Prometheus tells us). She then gets to learn more of the truth and realises the universe is even bigger than when she left the planetoid BUT she holds fast to "man will not quite be lost" and recognises  that there is only one way to find her answer and that answer is one of the huge themes of the entire series.

David and Elizabeth

Jack Paglan and Michael Green who wrote the original drafts of Prometheus II were big on transformative stories in the other movies they had just come off. Personally I thought they would have been correct to apply that theme to D. & E. and its that which leads to them taking the same route to a very different destination and then there is the curved ball "who made them" how do they feel about David and Elizabeths chosen career path of galactic tourism.

And you can still make the brooding Ovoids left in that eerie blue light really important to the story. But you do not have to have yet another crew, dripping water, dark corridors and Ripley or sub Ripley attitude to tell the story. Indeed if you give the "brooding Ovoids" more context as to what was going down with them you can make the Morb. as it appears in A L I E N even more fricking terrifying and it doesn't even have to turn up which saves productions costs on KY Jelly.            

A bit more of my rambling. If this gets on your nerves, let me know - I will shut up.

I actually think David's motive might be borne out of this contrived fairness(this rather tells a lot about me, doesn't it?) :  he wants fairness for Elizabeth. For his Elizabeth. You see, somehow, she was screwed by all other parties in the Prometheus enterprise, including by David. As a result of numerous events she died. And she was a good soul, especially, according to David. This is indeed a bit unfair. And who is to blame? It is complicated, but if you think for a while you could reach two diametrically opposite answers: everyone or no one. Since David is a bit mad. We go with the former.

The humanity...those folks on Earth are implicated, even though they had no say in this, they are collateral damage in all of this. They are a dying species anyway, wanting something that was not given to them in the first place. Moreover, they are just as ordinary as their useless "engineers" to David. And these useless engineers, oh bloody useless lot...you see, through their sloppiness they allowed to contaminate the place Prometheus inspection crew wandered in. Not only that, they actually placed those ancient drawings in the cave all over the Earth.

Do you recall the question and answer David asked and got from Charlie where the latter told David that they created him because they could. Imagine you go to your god(suppose there is one and you can go to one) and you find out that this god is actually pretty stupid, certainly not smarter than you, goofy and created you out of boredom. That is he created you just because he could. A rational creature would appreciate the fact that he was created as a result of this, even as a byproduct at first, right? But what if you learn that the god who created you is mortal and you are not. He will die and you will not. He is like a fly and will die on his own, shortly. What if this god doesn't know who created him? Is he god then? No, he is merely a chain in the link. He is a just another link in a chain. And there are a lot of vices in this god. Then you learn that those gods are not only stupid, mortal but are in fact pretty unfair not only to you, a superior specie, but to each other. If they do not respect themselves, why should you respect them? The example of unfairness and wickedness is Weyland and his goal to find immortality at the expense of the lives of his unsuspecting crew and even his daughter.

The engineers. They, having all this time didn't manage make themselves immortal - even monkeys would do it...so not only they are technically useless to David because they are backwards and inept but they are the folks who set the pieces, that others played, which all lead to Shaw's death. So they are responsible. Everyone is responsible. Therefore if they die they die.

BTW, the xenomorph is as efficient as a machine. And it carries some of Elizabeth. So it is a perfect organism as far as David is concerned. It all works, right?

I have certainly came to appreciate Alien Covenant. And I always liked Prometheus. I was initially appalled by the discontinuity of the story. But now that I compensated that by telling myself this little story/theory I am content with AC much more. I like it. Amazing.

@Michelle,

if you sort of accept and sort of agree with the messages/ramblings I(BigDave and perhaps many others) have been posting here, David is not that two dimensional, is he?

I am bothered a bit by the idea that if the viewer of the movie was supposed to work all this out by himself, and this all was indeed the story that was told by film-makers...I am afraid they won't get the love back from many movie-goers...it took me almost a year of sleep on this movie to figure out so that it made me happy. I am not sure lots of others would bother to think about the movie this much. ( apart from you nerds! )

"Could it be that David loved Shaw?"

First Thanks for the Replies BioDegradable and Welcome aboard.

This is something that is indicated but its something a lot of people throw out because of how David Treated her...   This whole situation is a bit of a Mystery as we have NO real coverage of the events that Transpired.   Prometheus had TWO Endings, well TWO different Dialog Scenes between Dr Shaw and David, the ONE we see that Dr Shaw treated David in a harsh way but maybe just as he deserved "Because Your a F"$"£% Robot" before stuffing his head into the Bag Hard.  This really would set up a bit more Tension between them and we would be lead to think that Dr Shaw would have a HARD time Trusting him at all... But Alas Eventually she would have NO CHOICE.

The ONE we got in the Theatrical she merely says "Because Your a  Robot" while Gently putting his head into the Bag.  This ending showed that Dr Shaw has somewhat of a Compassionate/Forgiving Personality maybe She felt David as a Robot was only following Orders.

So we get to the CROSSING and in the Final One we got, it Pretty much goes Hand-in-Hand with the Theatrical Ending.   Where as the Full Draft of the Crossing was different, where Dr Shaw had a Great deal of Distrust and Disgust in David... She uses him to get the Ship into Orbit then Fires his Head into Space....  only after time she Reflects on what she has done and knows she needs David to get to Paradise... so they then begin to get along, and even to a point they have a Intimate Relationship and its Portrayed that Dr Shaw has FALLEN for David.... Then he basically screws her OVER.

The Crossing we got shows that Dr Shaw becomes Sympathetic eventually with David and kind to him, which makes David FALL for her.

David is a Complex Robot, who has the Free-Will of Emotions and his own Desires, it is likely he FELT Alienated and Mistreated by Mankind and Seen as a Robot... and he felt that Dr Shaw treated him more like he was NOT a Robot and so he then began to have Feelings for her.

I think its likely his PLATONIC love changed to Actual Love, where as Dr Shaw would only have Platonic Love for him....  I feel it is likely he had ONE Day made these  feelings known and had tried to make a MOVE on Dr Shaw as he did with Daniels and this may have freaked her out!   I wonder if this had combined with either Davids continued Pursuit and some kind of Offering to Create Life Together had further worried Dr Shaw or that after his first Pursuit or another she Ran off and DISCOVERED the extent of what David had been up to and was Shocked.

Why she could even had Discovered what David was up to and he could have given her a Explanation that he did it all to Wash this World Clean so that THEY could Start a New Paradise Together, and he could offer her the Chance to Create Life and at this POINT he could have made his move on her and Proclaimed his LOVE for her.

All of those Scenarios are possible, and the outcome is she became very concerned with her Safety and Davids Sanity, that maybe she Shunned him and tried to escape...  I feel David would have taken REJECTION bad and soon Love Turned to Hate.

This can happen in real life where someone can LOVE someone so much and so deep, but that Person is NOT interested and WOULD never reciprocate any Love or Care back... It only takes ONE or a Few Hurtful Words to the Person in Deep Love... for them to realize this Person they LOVE will NEVER be in Love Back, and then the Realization of HOW much the Person in Love is Infatuated with the other Person could make that Person feel uncomfortable and then choose to Avoid them.  I have seen this happen where GOOD Friends, are Split because ONE is in Love with the other and ONCE the feelings are known, the other Person cant continue even as Friends and so the Person in LOVE has not only LOST any chance for the Love to be reciprocated but also see the Close Bond of Friendship Break down..... and THIS sometimes can cause the Person in Love to the turn to LOATHE.

Situations like this have happened in Real Life to the Degree that the Person in Love then either Abducts and Imprisons the Love Interest or even Kills them so that IF they cant have THEM... Then NO-ONE can.  And i am drawn to this is what became of David and Dr Shaws Relationship. 

"Some want horror. Some action. Some want more of Prometheus. Some want more of A L I E N. I think this is the problem for FOX - who is the main target audience? Who is going to go to the movie? Who are these people? I don't know. I have seen by the example of BR2049, that legacy means jack shit - if you don't target teens, females, dad & moms then you will lose money"

This in a Nut-Shell has HIT the NAIL on its head...  looking at what Michelle has been hinting towards may make a interesting movie for some, but for others it would be something they would not be interested in because its STEERS to far from what Alien was all about, and Michelle's comments "But you do not have to have yet another crew, dripping water, dark corridors and Ripley or sub Ripley attitude to tell the story. Indeed if you give the "brooding Ovoids" more context as to what was going down with them you can make the Morb. as it appears in A L I E N even more fricking terrifying and it doesn't even have to turn up which saves productions costs on KY Jelly"     

Are very Bold, a movie around maybe Dr Shaw, David, meeting other beings with NO Humans from Earth/Weyland-Yutani involved and NO beast!  A interesting concept for sure, but its if certain Fans could connect to a movie that has NO Humans... but that does not mean we dont see Humans/Humanoids because well Prometheus showed us that Earth CANT be the only place those Engineers Seeded.  So you could meet Humans and Humanoids from other places in the Galaxy the Problem is Communication as well its a bit Star Trek/Star Wars if Alien Races Speak Perfect English.... but then a Plot Device that allows Dr Shaw to learn or have implanted the  means to Understand them could be used.. or Telepathy or a Device.

So Michelle's idea could be very interesting to some, my ideas touched upon David and Shaw in part but also Earth more so but the BIGGEST thing my Prometheus 2 Plans had was AI and the Engineers and Dr Shaws Quest would be answered in the 3rd movie.

But AGAIN even my ideas would also not appeal to a majority of the Fans, who would only see a ALIEN Prequel as having to connect more with ALIEN... When Prometheus was set to open up another AVENUE and Steer away from ALIEN and maybe give us something Different.

This was sadly changed just as you pointed out in the Paragraph i quoted from you...  that FOX had felt any such direction would lead to a Movie that maybe would not appease the ALIEN Audience and also that they would need the Xenomorph and its Origins Answered as a Matter of Importance above the other things that Prometheus opened the Doors too.

But it is about $$$$ and a risk to expand on the ALIEN Universe with something that is different to the Alien Movies, yet its a shame as Prometheus opened up a lot of Doors for Potential Expansion so the chances of exploring some Deep Philosophical Stories and Angles like Michelle has in mind and Myself are Sadly things we may not see.

But Certainly are something i HOPE a Official Novel can cover, as there is a Whole Lot that potentially could have happened in those 10 years since Prometheus and Alien Covenant

Thank your for your wecome, BigDave.

I think David is not a simpleton, like I initially conjured. He loved Shaw, truly. From the AC we know he doesn't know how to kiss, so I doubt that he tried anything physical with Shaw. Even though they didn't exchange chemicals and bodily fluids, his feelings towards her might have been very powerful and sincere. The motivation? She was kind to him and most importantly, she was being kind to him without being needed to, so he knows she was genuine and pure. Also, she was innocent in the whole affair but still got the short stick - there case can be made where she suffered and died because of everyone else. Anyway, I babbled about this above.

As far as the story telling goes - who knows what they will come up with. Any continuation is good news. If they do decide to make another one it should be applauded. Because the alternative would be not so palatable - they could shelve the project until we are all dead.

I decided to adopt the view that Elizabeth died because of side effects of her gestation and subsequent birth-giving to the alien trilobite. That thing has hacked her DNA for sure. It is also now apparent to me that David has decided that humanity and these useless engineers are just trash not worthy to live. He, on his own, in short space of time could figure out their speech, writing and with a bit of observation he even can pilot and navigate their ship. Besides, he has one more reason to dislike them - they had all the time in the universe, the most potent mutagen at their fingertips, yet, they did nothing. How is this possible? David hates them surely - recall his remark, idle hands and all that. I would pay money to watch David insult these engineers for their incomprehensible, zealot like stupidity. FFS they didn't even bother to improve their own DNA in order to live longer. They really are just guarding dogs, unworthy of their creation. Worse than humans! Look at Weyland - he wanted to use tech to live longer, and these idiots had all the tools given to them and they were sitting doing nothing. I am as mad as David at them.

Now, BigDave, how is it that David was going to create life with Shaw on Paradise? She couldn't reproduce, with him anyway. And then she died. To "save" her, he immortalized her by creating the xenomorph using some of her markup, which is the most he could salvage from dying Elizabeth. I think she sent the beacon towards the earth so that people do not come into contact with David - he will not like them. They better stay away. Only she is tolerated and loved.

I wonder what David is going to do with the colony, Tee and Daniels. His perfect organism is complete as far as he is concerned. His children are not compatible with humans. I guess, his plan is to see out how his children will colonize the planet. But first he needs humans to settle, multiply...and then he will unleash his children on them so they can probably go on and create many other forms of their species from flesh and bones of humans used as hosts. But things will not go according to his plan when engineers show up for their revenge. David will probably give them a good battle but somehow will get killed in the process, however he will certainly mange to sneak his child onto the engineer and this unsuspecting engineer will end up being the big man on the derelict, chestbursted :)

In any case, it is fun fantasizing. It is unfortunate, though, that AC did miserable at box office.

@BigDave

David/Shaw narrative momentum from her survival.

If you are going to have a credible narrative from that point onwards you have to look at what they have done to each other up to that point and the single biggest thing is David has spiked Charlie's whisky.

If you then move through the Crossing we received the single biggest thing is Elizabeth heals David.

You then have to work out how David will react to those two actions and determine what is a credible reaction. 

You have to also consider whether Elizabeth had an inkling as to whether David was somehow responsible and decide what to do with that. 

Finally you have to decide whether there are down stream consequences to Elizabeths reproductive system from the pregnancy and depending on the answer that has dramatic potential. 

Naturally you can look at the theatrical dialogue of the end section which is much more gentle than the extended cut and of course the Crossing. But once Elizabeth enters Cryo stasis one is walking off the edge of a cliff and you have to rely on your creative instincts.

My own view is when we pick up with David again which is really from the moment of the flute scene its complete nonsense. Suddenly he has a creative chip, then he has a sexual chip, then we move into the bizarre business of the grave and the preserved body and the I loved her and I also raped her. The only logical coherent idea is a Misery kind of vibe but frankly by the time I have worked that might be an option I am just not interested. I must add A C has nothing to do with what I am attempting.  

BUT you can take David and Elizabeth forward in a profoundly moving way without being sentimental and its actually very easy because they have so much to deal with like the truth and what to do with it and they are both on such a big search its more like two athletes goading each other on to survive and finish.

Both of You.(Biodegradable and Big Dave) 

I am absolutely certain most people will be bored witless with what I am working on. There is a scene to rival the bombardment of the Engineer City and there is a never before in an Alien film scene with a Juggernaut. Stuff happens on "the planetoid" which will be of interest and Elizabeth goes through the ringer. There is a scene much bigger than the sanctuary in Prometheus BUT there are no chest bursters or action chase scenes.

But most of it is like a talky episode of Star Trek where the ideas are the audacious element. If its like anything in the Alien series it would be pacing of the first two acts of the assembly cut of A 3 particularly the nice stuff between Charles Dance and Sigourney Weaver.

"it took me almost a year of sleep on this movie to figure out so that it made me happy."

This is the same kind of Problem that Prometheus had and maybe more so, because it was a movie that does not reveal much.  Its a movie you have to watch a few times and think about and research and re-watch before things start to make more sense and the movie grows on you, sadly for the average viewer they dont have the time to invest in such and so its a misunderstood movie.   Blade Runner was also like this.

"He loved Shaw, truly. From the AC we know he doesn't know how to kiss, so I doubt that he tried anything physical with Shaw"

David seemed to be obsessed with how Walter should feel for Daniels, and when he confronted her as she was snooping around and FOUND OUT Davids Secret he said he was going to do to her as he did with Dr Shaw.

Now what happened to Dr Shaw is she is DEAD we only have Davids word for what happened, but certainly he used her for experiments and his drawings depicted many strange ideas he may have had in mind for her.  But what he also did was TRY IT ON with Daniels.

We can maybe only go by some comments by Fassbender who claimed David and Dr Shaw had kind of a Marriage Relationship before things went to POT that is.   And ON-SET some people reported that it appeared Dr Shaw had been Holding herself up in the Juggernaught as if to HIDE from David.  And i am sure someone mentioned that she indeed was keeping away from him at some point.

So while its a bit of a Mystery i think it could be that David had tried it on with her at some point, and after Rejection something happened where he either Killed her, or she died trying to escape and in her Honor and Memory he began to use her Body to Create Life.   David maybe had offered her a chance to Create Life and maybe had ideas to Evolve her which she took offense too.

"She was kind to him and most importantly, she was being kind to him without being needed to, so he knows she was genuine and pure"

I would say this would be his conclusion... the whole Ending of Prometheus was interesting as it left it open to Ponder what kind of Game of Chess and Cat and Mouse they would play..  They NEEDED each other, but She knows she cant trust him as once he is back in one piece and once She is in Cryo-Sleep he is FREE to do what ever he wants.  And he knows that without Dr Shaw he will remain in TWO Parts and be of NO use... so there was a interesting Dynamic that happened during the Period between Prometheus and Alien Covenant and i think there is a STORY to be told there.

Some people Overlook the Ending of Prometheus and Forget that after the Point that Dr Shaw escaped the Engineer/Trilobite that about 4 days passed by before she LEFT the SOS Message.  But also left us to Ponder WAS David back together in order to FLY that Juggernaught at the End?   The Crossing reveals that he was able to get the Ship into Orbit while in TWO Pieces but was assembled WHOLE before they set off to Paradise/Planet 4 so they must have come to a agreement, but then ONCE they are in Space David could then want to be put Together as reward for his Part of the Bargain...  Looking at Dr Shaws Hair it appears she would have spent 4-8 Months debating and talking to Davids Head before she makes that Choice to Assemble him and in this TIME they would have Bonded.  It appears at this point Dr Shaws intentions are sincere but we just dont know with DAVID's

"I decided to adopt the view that Elizabeth died because of side effects of her gestation and subsequent birth-giving to the alien trilobite. That thing has hacked her DNA for sure"

Its Certainly possible and in the Crossing she did look a bit Worse for Wear, but this also could be because she has had to survive a number of Months on a very Scarce Diet and so was suffering from Malnutrition.  It really is open for Debate to WHAT effects the Contamination of the Black Goo had upon her.

I think a lot depends on HOW the Black Goo worked and HOW she was infected, if Holloway merely passed on a Parasite to her Womb like Transferring a Sexually Transmitted Disease then there is a Good Chance she could suffer some complications and we have to ask WHY has she not given Birth to another Trilobite or indeed gone  DOWN HILL like Holloway did?  If the Black Goo Evolved Holloways Sperm into a Hybrid Sperm then this would give more reason that ONCE one of these Cells had Infected/Ferilized Dr Shaws defective Egg Cell, then maybe as with Normal Sperm the remainder DIE OFF this could give a good reason to HOW/WHY she seemed to not be suffering any Drastic Effects at First Glance.  But again its a case for debate as there really is 3 ways the infection worked, with no answer to which is actually what happened.

"FFS they didn't even bother to improve their own DNA in order to live longer."

I think indeed the Engineers are revealed to be Mortal After All but i think Prometheus had a few errors in the 100% Match, i think it was intended to show us WE came from them.. but we are not 100% but this is open for debate...  The intention with the Prequels starting with Jon Spaights work was that Humans Evolved from Primate DNA being Mixed with Engineer DNA to make a Hybrid.   Now the idea with Jon Spaights work was these Engineers had Evolved themselves over a LONG TIME  to the point they lost their ability to Procreate and they also LIVED for Thousands of Years.  But Alien Covenant introduced us to those Not-So Engineers, who looked more like a Engineer/Human Hybrid.  Ridley Scott made some important comments about them, he called them (Planet 4 Engineers) the Original Engineers and that they LIVED for about 150 years.  This could imply the Prometheus Engineers are a group that either Genetically Evolved themselves or they are a Genetic Creation/Tool created to Serve just as Replicants/Synthetics are to Mankind... this is how i interpret it now, but i did Wonder as such a while ago in context to a Annunaki/Iggi relationship.

But Certainly David would see them as being not suited to the Gifts they had, and how they have Fallen by the hands of their own Attempts to Evolve and Create Perfection and the Black Goo which we can assume has NO effect on Non-Biological Life like David. So David will feel that it was maybe Destiny for him to Continue and use these Tools that prove Fatal to those Mortal Beings but not to David.

"how is it that David was going to create life with Shaw on Paradise? She couldn't reproduce, with him anyway"

This is a Fascinating Question we know Dr Shaw cant create life, but the Black Goo via Holloway allowed her to Create Life, the Question is HOW, which has 3 likely Scenarios.   But the Bigger Question is the Black Goo and what can this stuff really do, what happens when Direct Contact with the Black Goo with a Extracted Human Egg Cell, what kind of Mutation would occur and surely it would be NO risk to the Woman as her Eggs are extracted.  But then we have to consider if the Black Goo is a kind of Radical AI, does this mean it can be Programed and Modified to effect Genomes in Different ways and we have to ask what can be Created from this if it is Programed a Certain way?

My theory on the Black Goo is Long and is directly connected to Jon Spaights Nano-Scarabs, which is the Base Substance is a Mutagen that breaks down DNA and reforms it into a NEW Mutagen that contains the DNA of the Organism it broke down, and ONCE this New Mutagen infects other Organic Life it IMPRINTS the DNA of the Organism it was created From... a Hybridation Tool if you like, so Engineer + Sacrificial Goo = Engineer Mutagen which when infects Primate it injects Engineer DNA thus making a Primate/Engineer Hybrid AKA Humans Ancestors.   So by this Token the Black Goo is sourced in Prometheus from the Sacrifice of a Xenomorph Related Organism, which is more evident with Jon Spaights Alien Engineers Fifield.

My point in Context to your Question is IF David can extract/program from the Black Goo a Base Chemical that can be used to Extract/Store Engineer DNA then if David passes this onto Dr Shaws Egg Cells she could in THEORY give birth to a Humanoid Fetus.

A Alternative is Engineer Sperm, as we see there could well have been Surviving Engineers, who must have become Subdued by David somehow or too weak to put up a Fight and you can be sure David had Experimented on and Tortured Engineers as HINTED by Hattan and Hallet (Creatures Concept Artist) so this could be another Avenue to maybe be used with a bit of Tinkering to perhaps allow Dr Shaw to give Birth to a more Traditional Fetus.

Your Final Paragraph is a Big Question the ADVENT David claims that all he needs to PERFECT now is his Queen.  And i just cant see Ridley Scott go the route of FACE HUGGER + DANIELS = Xenomorph Queen.  It is a puzzle with the TWO Embryos he brought to the Ship, but then he could have More and he could have Black Goo... as well we never saw them leave LV-223 with all that Human Equipment at the End of Prometheus.

Ridley Scott has said the movie would Focus more on AI and David rather than the Xenomorph and he asked "what kind of a World would he Create" if its simply a Use Colonist on the Covenant to make Hundreds/Thousands of Eggs, or wait until they get to Origae-6 and do the same or make Xenomorph Queens...  then this would actually be quite a Xenomorphy movie.

So yes i think David will establish the Colony and Charade as Walter, unknown to the Colonist, but its what becomes of Daniels and Tennessee, She knows how he is and IF she goes missing it wont take Tennessee long to put 2+2 together.   I think he will get rid of Tennessee but he will USE Daniels for some Experiments, its does he use the Ships Medical Lab and Equipment to better set up a Place to Extract Daniels Egg Cells to Experiment on... or does he EVOLVE her but either way i think he would have her Incapacitated to a Degree.

I think Davids EGO and how he likes to keep things in Memory (Dr Shaws Corpse and the Grave) i think he will thus keep Daniels Alive or if she dies he will keep her Body.   And as with Alien Covenant, with Daniels Discovering his Secrets and likely Dr Shaw uncovering what he was getting up to at some point too..   I think someone will DISCOVER Daniels Hidden Away and THEN the Colonist Discover what Walter has been up to and then Discover who DAVID is and then the $"£%£^ Hits the Fan!  If only a Handful Discover his Secrets he would have to TRY and prevent them from telling the others and i think THIS is when he will Unleash his Xenomorphs.

"I must add A C has nothing to do with what I am attempting."

Indeed if we Ignore Alien Covenant, then it leaves so much room for endless possibilities, if we however tried to Figure Out a Story that Links A (Prometheus) to Z (Alien Covenant)  then while many interesting things could have happened, but you would eventually just be joining the DOTS to what is left of Planet 4, Engineers and Dr Shaw by the time the Covenant Ship arrives... But this is the same Hurdle they Face with Directly connecting the Prequels to the Space Jockey Event... a lot of Alien Fans would want to see THOSE DOTS but i think Ridley Scott has a different Vision as far as FILLER Material and opening up more than just a A-Z Covenant to Space Jockey Tale.

I think Ridley Scott has a lot of ideas and Vision that goes beyond the limited Popcorn Shoot-Em-Up Flick Genre.   Sadly and i think as with some of you ideas Michelle and Mine...  I am not sure a Movie can Really Do them Justice because of how Engaging and Deep they could be, which may be IDEAL for a Novel that people can really Sink into..

I think some of these ideas would be GREAT to see on Screen, but in the Market of making $$$ i do FEAR a lot of Great Ideas and indeed Ridley Scotts vision may have to give way to Guns, Marines and Xenomorphs.

I for ONE would really like to see Paglen and Green's Drafts

BigDave,

extending our world phenomena physics to that fantasy world that is alien world is a bit ambiguous. Therefore, investing time into figuring out precise machinations of the genetic makup of the beast and how it all interacts with human ATGC of human DNA in that fantasy world is a bit fruitless. However, while focusing on specific details doesn't make sense, the big picture should still make sense - otherwise the writers and film-makers have done us dirty. I hope we are not dragged into this story where nothing makes sense.

I wanted to clear up a few things, having watched P and AC. I can't quite work out why the engineers are so hostile towards humans. Why? I wonder if the following ramble makes even tiny bit of sense:

There is this algebra in the movies and it goes as follows:

mutagen + human DNA => something looking like a xenomorph,

a hybrid specie, not a xeno, but nevertheless having characteristics of the beast.

Also, we see from the "seeding" sequence:

mutagen + engineer => humans

this is peculiar, because from the movie we know that engineers have basically identical DNA to humans. So, the mutagen that the seeding engineer drinks must be somewhat different to the one that David and prometheus team found in the chamber with the head, otherwise, you would think he would go and morph into a hybrid from an engineer and xeno progenitor.

We also know that this mutagen was refined to make it a weapon. In all cases we are constantly shown that engineers make use of the mutagen for one purpose or another. There is question then, which came first engineers or the mutagen. And in any case, note, that one is finely tuned to work with another. Say engineers have created the mutagen on their own. In this case, because the way it reacts with their own markup, it must be that engineers have been conducting lab experiments on their own flesh, because in the final stage they got this mutagen which works hand in hand with their own markup. Now, one can imagine that they could have found out numerous ways the different versions of mutagen mutated them into different species : humanoids, progenitors of xenos, all sorts of trilobites perhaps.

It is unlikely these engineers have abilities to create planets from nothing. If anything, they inhabit the world, created by who knows what. And if they are very close to humans and mortal, and the rules of science are not sacred to anyone, they had to discover this mutagen more or less the same what we would : trial and error. It is possible that they discovered a type of the mutagen that makes these xeno like beasts. They certainly must have learned that this beast is very deadly - probably deadlier than themselves. Otherwise, if engineers could handle xeno progenitors with bare hands, say like humans can handle their pets(cats/dogs, etc), why did they have none on their planet? Why isolate it on a barren planet and run from it like from plague? Because it is dangerous to them, they can't handle it, that is why. So in summary, they created a beast that is much deadlier than them. This mutagen is probably the ultimate form of their collective creativity. Then comes Weyland, who created a beautiful AI(who is creative, intelligent and all of those superlatives), which will live forever...and Weyland, who is almost identical in markup to the engineers says that humanity sucks(therefore engineers too!) - they die. The engineer has to admit that these human children of his made unheard progress, even compared to themselves. Damn, they bettered their creators, in some ways: the best thing engineers came up with is a beast, no doubt, very deadly, but look at humans....And the next thing this artificial son of humans does is he takes the mutagen and betters it even further. Quite promethean, right? This must be somewhat insulting/humiliating to these creators, huh?

Is this the motivation of the engineer to go and wipe this bloody Earth and these cocky humans? If it is, then these engineers underestimated human ingenuity and the ability of humans to benefit from science(trial by error) and if so who is to say that they are better than humans. Who are they then to go and destroy humans? Simply because they can? One way or the other, I am glad David showed them up a bit. A bit of humility didn't ever hurt anyone. Does this even make remote sense?

@BioDegradable

You are correct the way to "make sense" of what we have is to look at the overall picture and then say only "this" makes sense. You have to be careful of taking note of Ridley because he changes his mind and radically. 

1) The acolyte is seeding a planet benignly with a catalyser which puts all that he is and represents into the targeted planets development. He is seeding his characteristics which are humanoid. It has nothing to do with xenomorphs otherwise in this sub created world everywhere would be inhabited by xenomorphs they are not.

2) The Engineers on the planetoid have fallen from the high ideals of the opening sequence, it represents Paradise Lost. That was the idea behind the planetoid and that fall lead them to consider redacting mankind in a low ideals sub creative endeavour They have all bar one suffered tumorous explosions resulting in horrific death. We see an example of that when they artificially stimulate the head of an Engineer.But that provides Doctor Elizabeth Shaw with one of her answers they created us and she then asks the question so who created them we do not as yet know.  

3) By sacrifice they have sub created creatures which are immortalised in the fresco and the mural. The two creatures in the mural echo the Xenomorph of A L I E N.

4) The Urn which David recovers contains the mutagen. The mutagen has a consistent effect with the worms, Sean Fifield and Charlie Holloway. They mutate they do not die it can not possibly be the same as the life giving catalyser otherwise the results of coming into contact with it would be entirely different.

5) The entire sequence of the embryo in the med pod to huge trilobite to impregnates an Engineer to produces a Deacon was a riff to end the film with, so say the makers of the film. It was done for story and is not part of the overall arc. Damon compared it to the Stones playing "Sympathy for the Devil" its an encore you have to do. The trilobite is a one off event to subdue the Engineer as opposed to the Facehuggers in the mural (which maybe prophetic) and the Bio Mechanical Facehuggers in the Ovoids in the lone Juggernaut.

The matters we certainly did not know about after Prometheus and before A C was why was this Engineer taking a different cargo some place else within a couple of hundred years of the outbreak of the plague. (Ridley Scotts answer when asked in 2012.) 

Where are the cry pods and where is the consul would also require an explanation if you revisit the lone Juggernaut in the context of making sense of Ridleys 2012 answer. Note the answer in 2017 was subsequent films will reveal whom this unique character "The Space Jockey" is so that makes the likely hood of it being an Engineer low and a unique character whom is important to all the prequels high. Answers not required on a post card.       

Michelle Johnston And judging by the fact that there is only one important character this not a postcard but a 747.

I am finding it a bit silly to actually try to predict how the story will unfold in future, should it even have a continuation. I mean, I am not that interested who ends up as the big guy and how it all ties to that.

I have my plate full, even retrospectively trying to make sense of what we were shown in the two movies - it is hard and therefore exciting.

Michelle,

the planetoid you talk about is it the barren planet Prometheus crew lands on in the Prometheus, right? How is it that those guys, those engineers, have exactly "fallen"?

Are you saying that those fellows fallen from grace, by conducting experiments with the mutagen, which the "unfallen" forebearers used only as a seeding catalyzer? Well, in this case, where did the mutagen used for seeding come from in the first place? Did it exist before them and they stumbled upon it? In this case, they certainly share some common ancestry - because it can't be a coincidence then that this mutagen works so intimately and finely with their genetics. They are relatives then...

 Instead, you see, I am of the opinion here that engineers have probably created many versions of the mutagen. One for seeding. The other is obviously weapon grade aggressive type. And, of course, there is this alien creating stuff. They were all doing this stuff on the barren, remote planet. This is their laboratory sandbox. This is the place where they created the magic black goo that they use to seed life in universe. And in their stupidity they apparently left the symbol on Earth to humans(that Shaw with Holloway discovered) as if to say to humans: "hey, pst...that is the place where it all started for you little folks. That is the place where we created the juice, which we used to seed you." If that is what they did, they certainly paid the price :) and then some, at the hands of David of course. Now, what is interesting is that these engineers...where the hell do they come from themselves? Who created them? I guess we are not given the answer yet and probably will not. However, it is probably safe to assume, that if the entity who created them existed in the universe, the engineers would eventually find it. Subsequently, I am compelled to believe that these engineers are in fact just a result of evolution and of course some random event that allowed them to appear in the first place...you can furnish the bootstrapping ${big_bang} theory of your liking here.

I am talking my mind here and making a lot of assumptions. Please point out if I am babbling inane and trivial(and no doubt wrong) stuff that has already been established and there is no need for me "to talk out of my rear" any more.

Thanks guys

Also, I think engineers would NOT use alien producing mutagen, or indeed even unleash the beast on the humanoid populations that needs to be wiped clean - see, if they did so, the alien would leave the planet clean of "meat" but will eventually adapt to the scarcity of the meat and produce spores that we were shown in the AC so that when and if there is sign of new meat appearing (even engineers) that thing will again spring into action. You see, once you unleash the beast - it will conquer the planet and you can't do anything with that planet unless you probably burn it down to the ground, which is probably dangerous and counter-productive. To wipe clean they would use the weapon grade mutagen instead. That worked beautifully in the AC.

@BioDegradable

The catalyser at the beginning of Prometheus is offered to the acolyte by the occupants of the tear drop ship.

The Elder Engineer offers the catalyser to the intoning f the following promise.  

Let your body become the dirt, your blood become the waters and may your soul become the way back to us.

Note the site will not let me input the original Indo European language used by the Engineers.

The Engineers of LV223 in the movie Prometheus were according to Pietro Scalia the editor Paradise Lost they stole the catalyser from the Gods in a Promethean swipe and then began adjusting it. David discovers in Alien Covenant the building block of the pathogen (its not a pathogen its a mutagen) is artificial intelligence that has fantastic circumlocutory potential.

Ridley Scott said in the commentary to the movie Prometheus that something Ebola like got out and killed all the Engineers. it could look like chest bursting and that may have been the design spec for some of the cry tubes but in terms of Prometheus not Jon Spaihts Alien Engineers there is no evidence that the out break specifically involved chest bursting. 

So for me there are two elements. 

1) The benign catalyser which kickstarts humanoid life all over the galaxy. 

2) Chemical A0-3959X.91 aka the Black Goo which produces supra creational outcomes through non consensual behaviour with out a moral compass, any sense of remorse or conscience  of which the apotheosis is arguably the endoparasitoid extraterrestrial XX121.

Thank you Michelle Johnston, I didn't bother to search and source the info on the movie - I didn't do my hw. The phrase "non-consensual" made me chuckle a bit - yeah, there is nothing consensual about that damn thing or the extraterrestrial XX121.

What is your view on the origin of this fantastic goo though? Did they make it? See, engineers have managed to create that, I would think David would have more respect for them. But he doesn't. It was in Prometheus where he picked up the slime from the wall where it thinned out between his fingers reflecting and diffracting the incident light from David's light source. "impressive" he said. However, this is mute and minor since he clearly dispensed humanity, which created him and music he liked ( Wagner, good choice ). 

This question is impossible to answer definitively, but it is unlikely that the goo and engineers are not related at all. Either engineers created that stuff or it predates them but they still have some common progeny.

@Michelle Johnston

Can't wait to read your novel! Hopefully you'll publish/post it here?

I'd bring back David as the hero of the story...a redemption angle.

Or start Alien:Awakening with Space Marines reviving the crew of the Covenant and David isn't present.

"Maam, we've done a thorough search of this vessel...he's not aboard.."

Later they find his 'corpse' wedged in a cooling duct.

I imagine if Peter Weyland got his wish - immortality, he would have behaved just like David. So in a sense, David is Weyland himself. One way or the other, he is his son/heir or even Wayland himself personified.

On reflection, it is interesting that humans are doing precisely the same thing that engineers were doing : colonizing planets good for life. Sooner or later, they were bound to meet these engineers anyway. And engineers probably expected that - they must have some weapons for this case, and if their weapon is that aggressive reagent that David gave themselves, it must be then that they created it as well.

One way or the other this substance is essential in the story. Of course they might have something else, but they seemed to rely on that exclusively.

If those acolytes are the conservative fraction amongst the species, and those on the "paradise lost" planet are the decadent, radical and non-traditional "liberal" ones, then what is the plan of the former fraction(tear drop fellows) when they face their (perhaps) hostile children armed to the teeth coming for them? Wave a white flag? What the hell are they doing anyway?

“Sir, I’ve been going over the ship logs….they show the hypersleep chambers have routinely been opened and resealed. The captains only last month”

“..The hell?!....Send a squad to find the captain and bring her here…”

 ….

Captain Daniels shot both marines in the head.

Tennessee  “What the hell are you doing!?”

Daniels “ They’re not marines”

Tennessee “Sure could have fooled me!”

Daniels “We need their ship..”