IgnorantGuy

David says: "But I've still one thing left to perfect", "My queen" (looking at Daniels).

David wanted to make Shaw into his "queen" as well, keeping her alive but mutated and experimented upon. Perhaps he used the eggs produced monthly by her (together with the pathogen) to make the xenomorph eggs?

There were perhaps 7 eggs in the basement which would then mean that Shaw was alive for about 7 months . . .

chli He says he found his Queen, but I think it is a reference to the queen of Bathsheba, the desire for whom marks the Downfall of the Biblical king David. It might be possible that Daniels will birth something, but I don't thinl she will be made into a Cameron Queeen. 

IgnorantGuy

Well, as I see it, it depends on two things (at least):

The first is what David means by saying that he will create a queen out of Daniels?

The second thing is that there seem to be millions of eggs in the cargo hold of the Derelict. David could perhaps create 2000 eggs from the colonists on the Covenant?

chli Is it even correct to assume that there exists a queen before the one in Aliens. It might as well be the first one.

Even if we accept that David creates the xenomorph that the crew of the Nostromo encounter, we still have the issue of the Derelict (filled with thousands or millions of eggs and the space jockey looking fossilized).

It's 18 years between the disaster on Planet 4 and Captain Dallas, Kane, and Lambert finding the Derelict. In this time David has to traverse long distances of space, creating a queen, and the Derelict ending up on LV-426 . . .

Well, we don’t know for sure whether the star map given to early civilisations was an invitation or not. We don’t know for sure why the engineers created us either and then decided to destroy us (that’s what Shaw wanted to find out).

One thing is for sure, though. If you don’t want visitors, you don’t give everyone your address. The address might have been LV-223 (which might have been a happier place in times of yore). Or the address might have been Planet 4 (presumably somewhere close by).

It’s possible that the engineers looked upon us as parents do. You can’t have meaningful discussions with children. They have to grow up first. When they grow up, there can be good relationships between generations but there can also be a generation clash. Maybe they saw us as mischievous children with no hope of there ever being a meaningful relationship?

Another possibility is that they demanded power and obedience and when humans stopped worshipping them it was time for vengeance (nemesis).

When the star maps were given to us, we hadn’t reached the technological level of space travel but the engineers visited us and saw how we evolved. Around the time of the roman empire, they decided to wipe us out so we didn’t reach the space age (All or some of the engineers decided this?).

The invitation was withdrawn . . .

setaverde I don't claim to know either. I might be missing something. This is what makes discussions interesting.

I think that Queen from AR was actually surgically removed and din't burst but I could be wrong. I haven't seen AR for more than a year.

@BigDave, This is the Proof that Alien films are much more than just Xenomorphs.

I was thinking in something inside the alien Queen that erupts from within and bursts its way out. 

Well, what do i know, @dk...

I'm ONLY a traveller that gets Lost in the world of the xenomorph.

setaverde I can see your point, but I think all bursters shared DNA with their hosts. 

I think the burster at the end of A3 was a queen, so I think that may have been the first Queen burst. The AR burst was definitely the only one that survived (unless I missed something from comics or novels).

Some Nice Shares ;)

Certainly it would be interesting to see more SHIPS.

I think the Prometheus Plot does open us up to many Engineer Ships, never mind many other Races in the Galaxies Ships.

The Debate about a INVITATION is not so HARD.

Looking at a Reason WHY they wanted to Destroy us is something MUCH more open for Debate.

I think a lot has to do EXACTLY with WHY they would Create us anyway?

Yes there is that Date that is by Coincidence around the Time of Christ's Death (Give or Take) and YES we had Ridley Scott mention this was done on Purpose but then Considered a little TOO on the NOSE.

He liked to get us to think that over time the WAYS that Mankind had behaved had started to become a Concern, if we LITERALLY was to look at it from GOD's POV  and you saw the Majority of the Population Now as far as WHAT would offend the Biblical God, and as FAR as the % who Worship him to the LETTER... Then that GOD would certainly be like PREPARE THE BLACK GOO!

But this should NOT be getting too much into Religion as far as ONE.. and i think this is WHY it is RS had toned this down somewhat.

So we need to look at it this way.... we have to consider that for a God or Godlike beings, they would want their Creations to.

*Behave in Ways that the Creators Deem Acceptable.

*Respect and Worship the Creators.

*Follow any Rules/Laws that the Creators have set out.

*Stick to the Function that the Creators had set out for us.

A Creator would be Concerned if the Following Started to Happen.

*Creations become Sentient and do-not see their Creators as Superior or see any reason why they should be Worshiped.

*Creations go about Living their Lives to their own Rules and have no Respect for/or Follow the Rules/Ways their Creators had set out.

*Creations Start to use the Knowledge passed on in ways Not Intended or begin to Create their own Knowledge/Inventions or Ideals (Advancements) that could be seen as a Concern.

*Creations attempt to Sub-Create or Play God.

All of these THINGS would be a Concern, and we can Attribute many of them to Many Cultures/Civilizations on Earth (especially Modern) in comparison to how say some Cultures like the AMISH for instance would Choose to Live despite being in Modern Times.

which we could make Comparisons with the Planet 4 Engineers. (Living by their Creators Ways/Rules and Shunning Technology for the Most Part).

But this is ONLY looking at HOW we could be a Concern.

I think we OVERLOOK our David a lot when trying to Figure out stuff..

If you look at the Potential for what WALTER would become and a World of Many Walters doing their Duty.

Then look for the Potential for what DAVID would become a World of Many David's who do-not see their Purpose that we had set out for them, and even view us as In-Superior and NOT worthy to be Served.

As a Creator you would be Concerned about what a DAVID could become and if you Creations Start to Show signs of becoming a David... then you would PULL THE PLUG on them.

Or at least RE-PROGRAM.... but sometimes this maybe does-not work and the only option is DESTRUCTION.

@Hox it does prove maybe they should make more Research and time taken into the things they show us, but a lot of it comes down to OVERSIGHT but with that comes Discrepancies that some Fans can use to Counter a Argument against certain things.

The intentions was to indicate the Zeta2 Reticuli system

Looking at Orion we can kind of make it look like a Match but it is a LITTLE off still.  The Map i attempted kind of Fits Better but is in NO-WAY to suggest this was thought out by those working on Prometheus, it is merely a Coincidence.

You raised a Good Point about the Briefing Map was ODD.

I took that Map and Lined it up with ORION from SKY-MAP Website and then Pinpointed where Approximately LV-223 was located according to the Holloway Briefing. 

The Co-Ordinates are NOT where ZETA 2 is located in the SKY.  While in RED i have marked out a Approximate Area where Holloway had pointed out.  i have Marked in GREEN a More Accurate Location of where Zeta 2 Reticuli would be.

So if we are trying to tackle the Oversight, then YES its quite a WAY off from Zeta 2

Could we use this to ARGUE that they went to a Place that is NO-WHERE near LV-426?  Could we Argue the Maps that Dr Shaw and Holloway found are pointing out ORION (but we can kind of match them to Various Stars if we had a Good Look).

You could also use it to MATCH up to the Betty Hill Abduction Map.

IN FACT when looking at SKY MAP its quite easy to find a Series of Stars that can Line Up close to this.

If we are ALLOWED to Rotate the Map and ZOOM IN/OUT on the SKY-MAP Website, especially if we are ONLY looking to find a Configuration that is CLOSE.

Had to do a EDIT on the Image this one is more Accurate as i made a Slight Mistake.

Nonetheless is does still indicate that INDEED where Holloway was pointing to (RED) is NO-WHERE near Zeta 2 (GREEN).

So Holloway was pointing to a System in Gemini, Near Star HD 54405  (Right ascension:    07h09m22.07s
Declination:    +16°32'58.2")

Here's the first burst Experience for an Alien Queen:

https://youtu.be/C_yfM1LAqP0

Technically, This alien Queen has Ellen Ripley's blood, therefore She's part human.

So, Engineers most likely hoped humans would join and co-exist with them, but at some point during their visit, humans proved to be a disappointment to them, so they thought "Nope, can't let those hostile bastards ruin this planet."

Roman legionaries can't destroy or contaminate the planet. And if Engineers think that we can't evovle without their help - it causes controversy.

@BigDave, Unfortunately the star map on the Prometheus is made up. It was clearly artwork inspired in part by the constellation of Orion, which is probably the most recognisable of all constellations. In this overlay, you can see this.

And here is the 'unadulterated' scene. I added the arrow pointing to LV-223 as indicated in the movie.

Unfortunately, Reticulum is in a completely different part of the sky, a different hemisphere in fact. LV-223 is shown in the movie as being somewhere between Canis Minor and Gemini (northern hemisphere).

It's a great pity that the production team didn't use a proper star map to create this visual, instead of making one up.

Orion...

Aliens 1986 film:

Gateway Station

UD-4L Cheyenne Dropship

USS SULACO

https://youtu.be/rcDXo1bi6YU

The Importance of Ship Names in the Alien Films

http://www.cinelinx.com/movie-news/movie-stuff/the-importance-of-ship-names-in-the-alien-films/

Alienverse Ship Dimensions

https://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/46518

Alien 3:

The Type 337 Emergency Escape Vehicle(EEV):

Spaceship USCSS PATNA

(Superior left corner of the picture, from your Point of view)

Ridleygram's Refinery looks fantastic!

 Prometheus: Escape Pod

https://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/46752

Prometheus: Lifeboat

https://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/46748

The Unknown Engineer ship:

David destroys the engineers scene:

https://youtu.be/w2Dwv9gi1po

The Derelict...

setaverde I really like The Refinery. It just looks huge and is amazing such a small crew is on it. It is almost as iconic as the Derelict imo.

They are both outstanding movies in their own right. I cannot think of a single movie anywhere that was flawless. I think most love both movies and nit picking shows people are really into them. I like the whole Quadrilogy despite faults.

Alien Resurrection film:

USM POD:

USM AURIGA:

The Betty docking with the

USM AURIGA...

https://youtu.be/zahL_eCU3Ds

WHY NOT BOTH? People always say "it has to be One Or the other, not both." why? The Eggmorphing theory works Also because if there is a queen alien, then there would be no reason to have an eggmorph; however, if there Was No queen, then how would it reproduce? an Eggmorph, of course (in fantasy logic). Both of these should be canon because if there was no eggmorph they could use their bodies to further the Alien-version of terraforming their environment ("it's a Dry Heat" = moisture absorbed for terraforming), while a queen would create a large number very quickly by utilizing the egg-womb or whatever by laying many eggs very fast. Otherwise, an eggmorph would be a last-resort for a single surviving alien combat form which would use the terraforming of its cells to morph a person into an egg to create a queen, which would logically be the first alien (which would also have a long gestation period to grow larger with more resources like why she didn't die immediately in Alien^3).

Both of these are logical and work seamlessly Together, which is why both being canon are excellent ideas.

I have the Neca Alien 3 Xeno and am happy with it. I really like that coiled buster though. Wish I could buy those seperately.

The Big Chap package looks really good. I didn't see a price point but NECA usually is good for the quality.

Alien Covenant Spaceship

https://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/44042&page=2

Alien Covenant: Lifter

Alien Covenant: Lander

https://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/45493

Prometheus: Destroy the ship!

'Heads up!'

https://youtu.be/EhF1-njN3sI

Prometheus...

At the beginning of "The Crossing", we see the juggernaut which Shaw and David have fetched from one of the facilities on LV-223, slowly gliding through space (suggesting that they have at least managed to get the ship airborne).

Next, we see Shaw examining a star map (in order to find the homeworld of the engineers?). Then, Shaw puts David together, and together they "were able to activate their ship and set course for their homeworld". They seem to be happy together.

David says it's impossible to say how far it is to the engineer homeworld but Shaw is put into hypersleep. David is then "alone again" For how long? During this time, David learns "of their ways". When they arrive at their homeworld, David immediately begins the holocaust.

Was Shaw awake? Did she witness the extermination?

Well, having only knowledge of the movie itself, it was pretty good and the concept of being mostly silent was very engaging. The last 15-20 minutes was a shit show though. It is worth watching until you see the toungueless clan- then shut it off. (One can still make plenty of vocal noise without a tongue)! And why bother mentioning a girl was fertile? So what? That point went nowhere.

The Vasps were pretty much a thing you had to take as a given like you had to accept zombies in the Dawn of the Dead- they were just there. I just took it in- no problem.

The egg laying bit was late in the movie and was very brief and only explained by what what was seen for about 5 seconds. That bit could have been chopped and no one would have noticed. Meh-

The Vasps themselves resembled the creatures from Pitch Black pretty much and behaved the same except they reacted to sound and not light- Fair enough! 

It is worth a watch up until you you see the Tonguless guy sketch "Shhhhh". 

Good concept, good acting, so so CGI, good story, some unexplored plot points, horrible last scene. 

Have some popcorn and a few beers and give it a go one time. One and done!

Here's a Ridleygram of the Refinery:

And Finally, The Refinery:

https://fantascienzaitalia.com/alien-1979-la-raffineria-storia-della-miniatura-50-foto/

The Narcissus - The Escape Shuttle from the Alien's 1979 film.

https://youtu.be/bTNg90PoLWo

BigDave You are pretty much on track with concepts explored in the movie. It also looks at the relationship of a Mother and Daughter- as the characters are named. It is written in a way that you can see each character's motivation and also how they conflict- but as the saying goes, Mother knows best.

I saw a rumor that a sequel might be called "I am not Father" :D

Well, the engineers decided we weren't fit to exist during the reign of the roman empire and the time of Christ. We were hardly any more civilized before that time . . .

Dr. Shaw interpreted those paintings as an invitation.

Based on comments by Ridley, and what we've seen in the film, Engineers seed planets with life and periodically visit them to check and update their creations. If their creations proved successful as the Engineers hoped, the Engineers would come back again. If their creations proved to be a disappointment, the Engineers would simply eradicate entire species using the pathogen and start all over again.

"If the planet went wrong, they would want to wipe it clean. But that could take 500 years. When they revisit because different visitors would come back and see we're not doing so well they would look at these human beings that are jerks, that are killing the planet, killing themselves, can't settle down, they're like a bunch of children. We should wipe it clean."

So, Engineers most likely hoped humans would join and co-exist with them, but at some point during their visit, humans proved to be a disappointment to them, so they thought "Nope, can't let those hostile bastards ruin this planet."

Even if Engineers checked on humans somewhere in 2000 A.D., they'd be disappointed anyway.

As for the Advent transmission, it seems likely that it was close after leaving Planet 4.

About Shaw's hair length, it looks like they travelled together, helping each other manoeuvring the juggernaut before Shaw was put into hypersleep.

When it comes to "the invitation", the location was probably pointed out before the engineers were disappointed with us and wanted to eradicate us . . .