Comments (Page 298)

Indeed that is pretty close to Earths Oxygen 21% and  Nitrogen 78%

In a  real world situation they would have gone down with some kind of Space Suit and done a Survey and also investigated the signal while being suited up.  But in this situation the chances of then becoming infected with the Neomorph would have been Practically 0

The movie has many flaws, which also include a inconsistent Gestation Time for the Xenomorph i was going to start a thread the weekend on the Organisms in the Franchise Gestation Rates and WHY they vary so much (in particular with the Xenomorph).

The atmospheric composition on planet 4 was checked by the lander's computer that detected oxygen 19.5%, nitrogen 79.4%, barometric pressure 15.4 PSI. You might have overlooked this because at the same time the crew was distributed their guns.

Alien Awakening: Engineers Show Mercy on Humanity 

My new soundtrack for Alien Awakening with a different take on it. Enjoy!

I applaud your efforts and time in proposing the above, i think its a interesting idea.  I do think there needs to be a introduction to something more HR Giger/Lovecraftian and i was attempting such with idea i had for Prometheus sequels years ago.

HR Giger's Concepts revealed a Bald Humanoid Race as those wearing the Space Jockey Suit, so the idea was maybe already there... The Problem we got in the Prequels is the Sense of Scale... the Prometheus Engineers were decent enough but just needed to be Taller (the earlier drafts they was supposed to be 12-15ft tall).   The reveal of the Plot that these beings are in affect our Ancient Gods etc is BOLD but i think it distracted a bit away from what was so ALIEN and Lovecraftian about the Space Jockey/Derelict Scene and so even if we stick with the Prometheus Plot, i agree and was thinking along the same thing years ago, that we have to introduce a HIGHER Power/Race above the Engineers that would be very ALIEN in Nature and Aesthetic.

I have said this before in regards to the Xenomorph and a TV Series in that the more you show it the less effect it has and i mentioned with the Walking Dead Series there is only so many Zombies you can throw at the viewers before it becomes Repetitive and the same applies to the Xenomorph.  And i mentioned its the other Plots in Walking Dead that make it more interested, where the different Agendas of other Groups of Humans all with their own Agendas and some Nefarious is what makes it hit home.

And so indeed covering some Greedy, Cruel and Selfish Agenda of the Company and how it would exploit those Working Joes for the Xenomorph gain is what can give more Terror to the process.    The use of Hazardous Environments and Claustrophobic ones can bring added Tension and Terror.   Its how you write the Characters and what Environment they are in when the Xenomorph is Sprung upon them that makes the IMPACT rather than just throwing Xenomorphs around for the sakes of it like in the AVP movies.

So i think in Principle the ideas and how to apply them that you have expressed seem very interesting ;)

Everyone has their own Opinion and ways to express those, i have to agree that Alien Covenant was one very FLAWED Movie, i think some of your points are very Valid and Accurate i think some could come down to a little misunderstanding of what was being shown. (The Spores for Example, Spores/Fungi are not Plant-life) but most other points i can totally agree with.

I have to say that Alien Covenant had some interesting ideas, but sadly the Characters were not well done, not enough to engage us to feel any real connection with the exception of a few (mainly Lope, Oram).  What the rest of the Movie comes down to is having to Shoe-horn a Plot, introduce the Xenomorphs and something New, try and please Alien Fans, and Aliens Fans while trying to not completely piss off the Prometheus Fans.. And what we ended up with is a Movie where there was too much to be covered within the restraints of the Running Time and so cuts had to be made to how deep they could explore Characters, Scenes and Plot Points had to be Speed up and Rushed for the Convenience of getting us from A-Z

Prometheus could have done with a extra 25-30 Minutes and introduce a bit Xenomorph like Scenes...  Alien Covenant could have done with a extra 25-30 Minutes and Reduce such Scenes.

I had started on a Re-write of Prometheus a few years ago, that replaced some scenes and added some scenes and fleshed out some scenes and it was not a HARD TASK to Edit Prometheus into something better... But with Alien Covenant it would be a MUCH  HARDER task.

Regarding Stupid decisions by Characters, i agree we have seen some Stupid ones in both movies, but then the same can be said as IgnorantGuy mentions with Alien and Alien, if these movies had people taking more precautions then we would not any real Xenomorph Movies of Threat.

I will say that adding the Character ASH for Alien was a Masterstroke and especially the Special Order 937, because without that Special Order and him being a Secret Synthetic and revealing a Secret Agenda... then Alien would have had another STUPID moment when he broke Quarantine and allowed Kane on the Ship.

Sadly the Prequels could have had some things FIXED with a bit of better writing..... the Drafts to the Prequels and Novels to offer a Fix for some of the Stupid Stuff... For example a Reveal that Walter had checked out the Atmosphere of Planet 4 and determined it was perfectly safe.  Likewise in Prometheus the drafts had a explanation for why Milburn and Fifield got so lost (they each thought the other had brought the Map Device).

SADLY when a movie is shot and cut to fit into a Theatrical Running Time, some scenes like this have to be cut as they can affect the Run-Time of the Movie.

I think Prometheus was about 70-75% there as a Movie but needed a little work to make it a Good Movie, i feel Alien Covenant would have had to have about 50% Changes to make it into the movie it should have been.

JamietheBastard

Sorry mate but who seem to have discovered the wheel. I've been saying that Covenant David is a nazi from day 1 (http://www.scified.com/movie/prometheus-2/review/925) and here is a review saying the same https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/02/ridley-scotts-horrific-depiction-of-fascism-in-alien-covenant/

I think that you are also venerating the original movie, but how was that movie not stupid? Kane putting his face in the egg, Dallas' blind obedience to corporate interests, chasing the cat through-out the maze like space ship? And let's not talk about the marines in Aliens.

David was the most interesting character in Prometheus, but so was Ash, they did not make the whole series about him? And for me, he was not, as he was doing a painfully obvious rip-off of Peter O'Toole.

Bland Prometheus Ripley rip-off? Well in the first Alien she was pretty bland, being just another final girl. She is developed in sequels. But in Prometheus, I've seen the background of Shaw, the excitement of discovery, followed by physical and psychological pain, desperation and finally determination. Yes sure some can criticize the accent and the debriefing dialog was bad, but that did not warrant a killing off.

And if you are so in love with Giger, here on this forum, you can pictures of Murals created by the Swiss artist for Alien in which the Space Jockeys are bald humanoid wearing space suits. So why the hate?

And to conclude with I hate Covenant, but I like how in it all the people who are infected are either security or using guns to resolve problems (including the captain). I would like to think that was a jab at American foreign policy, but judging by who was involved in it, I doubt that is the case.

Unfortunately this is the PICKLE we are now in...

The making the Xenomorph a Recent Creation after the events of Prometheus and at the hands of David is something that has not gone down very well.

This is a consequence of the Following.

*A Prequel (Prometheus) that does not offer enough clues to the Xenomorph Origins or how the Derelict got on LV-426 and had not enough Xenomorph like Scenes.   If they had done the above better they could have CLOSED the Door to ALIEN and moved onto something else and a Spin-off that goes away from ALIEN as intended.

*Cracking into some Fan Pressure to give them the Xenomorph Origins and set up HOW the Eggs ended up on the Derelict on LV-426 and Re-Introducing the Xenomorph. Instead of sticking with a Plan to STEER AWAY from ALIEN.

*By doing so and to make the Origins of the Xenomorph and events that lead to the Eggs on LV-426 Literally connect and run after the events of Prometheus, means they have to have a set up to introduce Human Characters (Covenant) and bring the events more closer to home.

By going for a Literal Path from Prometheus ==> Alien and needing to introduce Human Characters, means they had to go with the kind of Plot they had for Alien Covenant (even if they changed the David Creates IT) there is the potential for conflicts with  the Franchise....

IF they had gone with the Original Plan to STEER away from ALIEN then RS could have done his WAR OF THE WORLDS by Virtue of having the Engineers abandon our side of the Galaxy and David and Shaw having to travel a Vast Distance to the PARADISE making it a place that is many Thousands of Light Years away or EVEN in another Galaxy. (this is what i aimed in my Prometheus sequels).

So David and Dr Shaw dont turn up to where ever the Engineers are until after the events of ALIENS and we can have Humans because we cant assume that Earth is the only place that Humans had been seeded by our Engineers.  The aftermath of such a series of Movies could introduce us to more Fresh Versions of Xenomorphs that reveal how the Xenomorphs may also had been Created, and expand on the Reasons for our Creation and intended Destruction... and then INTRODUCE a War of the Worlds where our Engineers are introduced back into the Alien Franchise at a Time-Line set after Alien Resurrection.

If the FANBOYS got a bit twitchy and impatient then after a Prometheus 2 as such, we could have another movie that gives them a investigation mission to LV-223 where they can introduce a Xenomorph type monster and have less ambiguous clues to how this place related to the Derelict and reveal more about our Engineers but not too much to then WET the Fanboys Appetite to now want to explore those EVIL SOB's who created the Xenomorph.

So you had ONE movie that caters for the Prometheus Fans, and a Parallel one that Caters for the Aliens Fans wanting Answers... and SETS up a 3rd movie set in the Future that is a AMALGAMATION of what would please Prometheus and Aliens fans and set up a WAR OF THE WORLDS

But this path would have been a Risky One as it would mean Committing to TWO separate Sequels to Prometheus were the MONEY would be to go the LV-223 Movie First to please Fanboys and Hook them into then wishing to KNOW more of our Engineers and be interested then in where David and Shaw are going.

But Ridley Scott felt that you have to go NEXT with what happens to David and Dr Shaw....

Regarding Finishing off the Alien Prequels...

I think we are in a state of LIMBO....  Alien Covenant has kind of written itself into a Corner, ONCE it has set up a Literal Path to ALIEN there is only really ONE ROUTE it can take... it eventually has to lead to ALIEN.

The Problem is that not only has some of the Plot Reveals that link us to ALIEN are now things that are not pleasing to the Majority of the Fanbase....   But also AC had been criticized quite a bit and Financially it was not a Good Success.

There is not a lot of Optimism for the sequels if it continues with the PLOT that seems in place, and so anyone who picks up the BILL to carry on with a sequel has to be aware of the Potential that LESS people may be interesting in seeing a sequel to ALIEN COVENANT.

We are at least TWO Movies away from ALIEN and if the Next Movie is LESS Xenomorph and carries on with the path about being about David and Creation, then i am not sure a Majority of the Fanbase would be interested... and if they go this route and a Sequel BOMBS! then it becomes a even more Greater Risk to carry on with the Final Chapter.. FINANCIALLY 

If they made a sequel and its Budget was say $100M and it never made a Good Return, and if it was not connecting enough to ALIEN and about the Aliens enough... then we are left with a STORY that is missing its Final and Important connecting piece to ALIEN.   If this movies does-not do well, then they either have to take a HUGE Gamble on Financing a 3rd Movie and Cater for Fanboys, (potentially on lower Budget) and hope this Financially does-not become a FLOP! or they LEAVE it left as it is where we are in a MESS with a kinda set up to ALIEN.. but then No Conclusion.

With Disney in Control they are a company who would not want to be making a Movie that does-not make a Good Return and the Set-up for the Sequel does-not sound a Movie that would Guarantee them a Good Return on a High Budget.

And a LOW $50-60M Budget in say 1-3 years would NOT be easy to do any ALIEN Fanboys vision of a Alien Movie Justice.... because to Produce Multiple Xenomorphs, and Epic HR Giger inspired Scenes, a Derelict/Egg Cargo set and more Space/HR Giger Aesthetic to our Engineers/Space Jockey... would be something HARD to pull off on a Low Budget.

You leave only room for either having Unknown Cast, or making Cuts to the Special Effects which limits the Scope/Sets for the Derelict and Xenomorphs and Engineers etc... so we dont get much of them... or potentially using some Poor CGI.

I think at least a $80-100M Budget would be required to begin to pull off something that Epic and thats a Big Gamble that maybe DISNEY are reluctant to take.

WAR OF THE WORLDS!

This was a interesting comment that Ridley Scott had made, but it was also a little Tongue in Cheek as he said this was the Direction he wanted to go "only FOX dont know that yet" he had said that he feels the Franchise could go another 5-6 Movies.

I think what this boils down to is that RS sees there is the Potential to Expand the Universe/Franchise and that ONCE you have joined the dots that take you from the Origins of the Xenomorph from Davids Experiments on Planet 4 right to when we get to where those Eggs end up on a Engineer Ship that ends up on LV-426... Ridley Scott feels that while that then Ties us to the events to ALIEN and we then continue with the Franchise Movies and the Companies/Humanities pursuit of the Xenomorph. I feel that what RS was suggesting is that ONCE you reach the event of HOW/WHEN the Derelict Ship ends upon LV-426, there is much more you can expand with the Franchise than just leaving it at that and the events of the ALIEN Franchise.

It seems that RS does-not see the Xenomorph as the main element of the Franchise, well he sees it as the main focus of the Original Franchise but realizes you cant keep going through the same Formula of Humans go on to places where they come upon some Xenomorph Eggs, there is Face Hugging, Chest Busting, Snarling and Killing and reveal Once again its a Set-up so somebody can try and obtain the Xenomorph for their own Nefarious Agenda.

You have to bring something NEW to the Game, and revelations of the Creator/Rebelion Plot that extends to our Creators the Engineers/Space Jockey, and also potential Conflict between Mankind and AI and also maybe even by Virtue of the Plot of Prometheus we have other Creations of those Engineers and even we could ponder WHO created the Engineers.... all of these Elements could lead to a expanded Universe and a WAR OF THE WORLDS like Scenario.

Where the Xenomorph plays a Role as a Organism/Bio-Weapon that whoever can Control it can gain the upper hand in Dominating the Galaxy... but also to bear in mind that the PLOT also allows us to explore other different applications of the Biological Warfare that lead to the Creation of the Xenomorph and open the potential for other similar kinds of Horrific Creations.

There is a PROBLEM with a War of the Worlds plot!!!

It could conflict with the Original Franchise, because their is NO indications of massive conflict with Wayward AI, never mind interaction and battles with the Engineers, let alone other Parties..  It would take one MASSIVE Coverup Operation unless...

The War of the Worlds Events happens...

*At a Time-Period set after ALIEN 3, maybe also ALIEN Resurrection.

*Discounts some of the Original Movies.

*Is set in a FAR FAR away part of the Galaxy away from Earth.

If Ridley Scott went for a War of the Worlds as in a timeline thats set not far after the events that lead to the Derelict and Cargo being on LV-426, we can wonder how this affects what happens after ALIEN.

Ridley Scott did mention about you could re-introduce Ripley as you can CGI her......  could this be taken as the possibility that RS plans could be to Retcon ALIENS on-wards? If so this would allow for his WAR OF THE WORLDS plot to not conflict with the Franchise, well if he Rewrites the History after ALIEN to make his OWN Franchise.

This kind of MOVE would NOT go down well with most Alien Fans and would certainly be SHUNNED by Most.

@dk: I just wish we'd get confirmation whether RS is going to be able to proceed with finishing off with his Alien universe "War of the Worlds," attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. 

Nathan Adler It's all good! It is interesting to see how new ideas can stir up old discussions. I think it is a big contributor to this forum's longevity. 

@dk: And I'm responsible for starting the ****storm;)

This is an interesting discussion. It reminds me of all the chaos that went on with Alien 3 and what we finally saw on screen.

"now this doesnt make sense because no one knows about the aliens and black goo besides aliens and david. so how does it get back to the company and for them to purposely seek out the the alien "

The clues to this are in the Advent Viral Message, and also RS comments about AI being the Biggest Threat... you can bet your bottom $$$ that we will be taken to a Plot where AI either controlled by David or Weylands Soul are the ones with the Great Interest in Davids Creation, and a reveal that AI does indeed start to be the ones running the show behind the scenes, while most of Mankind are not in the Know to this and are being used as Pawns... Think of the Matrix meets Terminator kind of Plot.

This will then show us WHY it is that ASH was so interested in the Xenomorph, and WHY a company would pursue something that is a Great Folly and Risk to Humanity.

AI is a Hidden and Big Part in the Franchise thats been there under our Noses all this time...  and the consequences of this are shown in Alien Resurrection were we finally see a Earth that is in Despair, and a Reveal that Synthetics end up playing a Large Role on Earth and that they even Sub-Create their own Creations the AUTONS who could have been the Hubris of the Synthetics.

I think this is how it would have all ended... im not saying that because its kind of the idea i had when working on a Prometheus 2 back in 2013, and also my idea for a Alien 5 set after Alien R but its also what i think RS could have been heading for too.

@C03koan

I think the set up was to EVENTUALLY end up on LV-426 but it appears if everything went to PLAN that Ridley Scott intends that we are AT LEAST 2 Movies from arriving at the Derelict and its Cargo arriving on LV-426

RS has mentioned the NEXT movie would not be about the Xenomorphs (this does not rule out them) just it wont center around those Organisms, RS said the next movie would revolve more about AI (he also tries to tell us that AI is not limited to just Robotics).  

It seems he is indicating that David and the Covenant will arrive at a Planet and then there will be 3-4 incoming Parties to that Planet (3-4 maybe meaning that ONE Party are connected/similar or that one Party contains some Element with a different Agenda).   so that means the 3rd/4th Party are.

*TWO kinds of Engineers.

*Human Ship with Synthetics (either Hidden or have Hidden Agenda

*Human Ship that has a Element with a Hidden/Secret Agenda

*Walter taken for a Journey by the Engineers.

We can already confirm from his comments that TWO of those Parties will be a Group of Engineers (but which kind?) and no doubt a incoming Human Ship (but how many?).  I am going to assume that ONE of those TWO will be classed as containing a 3rd Party and then we just need another Party which again could be another Human Ship, another Type of Engineers or something else.

The Question that RS had asked is what kind of a World would David Create? i would assume from this that David arrives at his Destination and spends sometime there before any incoming Parties Turn up.   

We have to remember ALIEN takes place over 17 years after the ENDING of Alien Covenant.  If Planet 4 is not too far from LV-223 (Near the Zeta 2 Reticuli system) as it appears the Covenant took about a year to get to the area it suffered its Malfunction due to the Neutrino Burst/Solar Storm.   Then we can assume that the Covenant would take just MONTHS (maybe less) to arrive at LV-223/LV-426, its indicated the company would not receive Davids Messages for some time.  So If he was to go to LV-223/426 then he could have been on this WORLD for 2-3 years before the company would ever ARRIVE.   His Message at the end of Alien Covenant (as Walter) was to inform the Company that the Covenant is continue with its Mission to Origae-6 which would take 7 years 4 Months to Reach.  It could be that David is either going to Origae-6 or he wishes to make the company think he is going to Origae-6 to put them off the Track.... and he goes to LV-223 instead.

However NO soon as the Advent Message is received it would not take the Company so long to arrive at where ever David is going (if he is going to LV-223/426) and how could this affect Davids plans to "What kind of a world would he Build"

So its most likely David would be going to Origae-6 which by the time the Company get his Messages and sets off, David would have a good 2-3 years to Create whatever World he wants.  And would place the Majority of the NEXT MOVIE being set around 10 years prior to ALIEN

Its likely the Engineers arriving while a Incoming  Human Ship is already there would set up the 3rd Act of the movie, that would then lead us to at least the 3rd Movie where i think the After-math leads to us seeing more of the Xenomorph, more of the Engineers and the Events that SET-UP how a Engineer Ship with a Cargo of Eggs ends up so close and then ON LV-426

so we are going from Planet 4 ==> Origae-6 ==> LV-223 and Finally the Derelict from LV-223 ==> LV-426

Thats how i see things Pan Out and the Space Jockey will be a Engineer (or related) who have taken Davids Xenomorph and attempted to EVOLVE it and then take it to Earth before something goes to POT!!

"If we are based off their DNA how was the Engineer able to walk from the crashed Juggernaut without a mask? "

@Nathan

Sorry for no reply, indeed we do see the Engineers can survive certainly for much longer than a Human Can (2-3 Minutes tops) on the Surface of LV-223.   The reason for this is up for debate, but certainly would paint the picture that the Space Jockey Suits act more as a Bio-Hazard Suit (Protect Engineers from Contamination and Protect their Experiments from being Contaminated by themselves).  I think the only thing i can think of as a good explanation to WHY those Engineers can Survive LV-223 Atmosphere is down to the Genetically Engineered Pressure Suits.

The Engineers Suits seems to seamlessly blend in with his Hands and Head, but the area of the Neck (contains Trachea, Laryngeal and Thyroid) area covers our Wind Pipes, seems to have like a Gill (Fish) look to the Engineers part of the suit that Merges with the Head.   

Does this AID the ability to breath the Hostile LV-223 Atmosphere?

"Who the hell goes and picks up the storyboards, concept works, compares script versions and then watches a movie? Only few dedicated people :)"

Certainly and i think at times we maybe do give those working on the Projects to much Credit, where they could just have been LAZY and so the ambiguity is not there for a reason, it could be because those working on it NEVER had any real explanations or intended too.

But from all the Material there is always enough little clues here and there that FANS can piece together to make some Theories that make sense..... but then those working on the Prequels release other clues in Future movies that contradict things and put some SOLID Fan Theories into Question.

Bottom Line is we have to ask if they ever had any real A-Z idea of what they are doing, as it looks like a Make-it-up as they go along... or certainly if they had a A-Z idea, they certainly keep changing elements of it as they go along.

@Nathan

BioDegradable answered the Replicant Question (Organic Beings) but in response to WHY the Deacon was not Bio-Mechanical, well the Organisms in Alien Covenant were not too...  Ridley Scott has mentioned that we are NOT quite their yet, and the Xenomorph has some Evolving to do before it becomes what we see in Alien. So the path they are taking is that its likely some kind of Synthetic Component will be Merged with Davids Xenomorph to make it become the Bio-Mechanical Beast we see in ALIEN... likely something along the lines of the Walter-Morph.

Regarding the Engineers running in Prometheus, i think we need to consider they dont routinely Sacrifice all of themselves only a Chosen Few,  and so those Engineers were trying to Escape/Contain the Results of being infected by a Black Goo Outbreak...  Some may also say they are running from a Deacon/Xenomorph but the whole what happened to those Engineers is another debate in itself.

The Prequel Drafts to Prometheus (Spaights/Lindeloff) offer TWO different outcomes to what was going on 2000 years ago.

"@BioDegradable: So the UFO carried a Deacon?"

I think the response by BioDegradable may be because they thought you was referring to the Bombardment Scene from Alien Covenant?

In this case the Juggernaughts Payload contains those URNS that indeed appear to carry a Mutagen that has the ability to Evolve/Create Life with the Genetic Makeup of a Deacon, but they may-not be Deacons as we can assume the Juggernaught came from another Temple Complex on LV-223 and we cant rule out that Each Complex had a slightly different form of Xeno-Virus than the others.

This is a assumption on my Part, relating to the Alien Engineers Draft (Prior to Prometheus) that had LV-426 being a Place the Engineers had been Engineering 8 different forms of Xenomorph like Organisms.   It was showing us the Juggernaughts had different Cargo Holds that had slightly different versions of the Organism.

If we used this information and considered it when we look at the differences between the Xenomorph in ALIEN and ALIENS then we could put that down to the Eggs/Face Huggers coming from TWO different Cargo Holds.

It could be a Space Flute?

Regarding the actual object its hard to say what it could be to be fair.  Space is Vast and their are loads of chunks of rock and other debris that contribute to Meteors and Asteroids and we have Comets etc and we cant assume every object is made purely of Ice or Rock, some could be mainly Metal or have a high density of Metal and they dont all have to be Asteroid Shape or that Dark Black/Grey Color.

So this does not mean this object due to its shape etc is NOT a Natural Occurrence.

But saying that..... IF you was a Intelligent Alien Species who are Advanced and have mastered Interstellar Travel and you want to SPY on other Worlds to look at their Civilizations without raising concerns.

Then a Ship/Probe thats disguised as or constructed inside of a Asteroid would be ideal CAMOUFLAGE to a modern Civilization like ours in the 20th never mind 21st Century a Probe like our Satellites and Probes we send out.. would look unnatural if it comes close enough to be able to view (by what ever means) where it can reveal its Shape/Appearance and would raise concerns and interest from any Civilization who spots it.

If you intend to secretly Monitor Worlds without being detected , then having a Probe that looks like a Asteroid makes Perfect Sense and a majority of those who detect it could pass it off as No-More than just a Asteroid etc.

so ive only just seen covenant in 2018 but ive been watching alot of theories that ties into alien, and the rest of the films in alien there is a robot (ash) who got recently transfered to the crew and  that already knows about the alien and is on a mission to take a sample back at what ever cost to the crew... now this doesnt make sense because no one knows about the aliens and black goo besides aliens and david. so how does it get back to the company and for them to purposely seek out the the alien,  

for this to be the case it seems like david has to go back to earth and some how influence the company to chase after the aliens so he can make the queen, which i havent seen but pretty sure "alien resurrection" they make a queen. but that movie is based 200 years after "alien 3" so if they get david to make it back to the company and take over and then he works in the shadows all the way to Resurrection to finally create the queen.  

That's interesting.

It could be anything.

Or is Ridley Scott secretly filming the sequel to Covenant and the mysterious cigar-shaped object is one of the "three or four different players coming in to investigate" (Ridley Scott)? We all know how Ridley Scott loves to use props instead of CGI.

Kinda looks like the Millennium Falcon

Or is it David?

No! It's not black. It's dark red!

No! We so wrong! These are not Engineers. It's a Black Marker!

@BioDegradable (& BigDave): I recently interviewed a veteran comic author who had a historical run on a franchise for decades and learned this, many of the insights fans drew from his work which seemed glaring going right over his head (reinforcing why I established my own blog lo those many years ago).  If needed those excesses curbed, I'm always looking for guest posters.  You might like to review an example here: https://fanfix.wordpress.com/2013/09/29/pinheads-identity-hellraiser  

BigDave I think nobody makes movies in such details, at least I have not seen such movies...well unless someone like Kubrik or QT(who tries to work out all the small details in dialogs) or even RS in Bladerunner. I frankly believe that most of the people on boards over-estimate the movie in its attention to details. I came to realize that most movies are plain shit, where they do bare minimum and ask you to suspend your disbelief. There are only a few movies that are very specific and detailed and worked out with watertight scripts. Alien, Prometheus, AC are not such movies. So most of the time people like you(and me and others) give too much credit trying to deal with the ambiguity, which is actually a result of plain poor job by the moviemakers, therefore it isn't really that much deserving for us to try and work out the ambiguity.

P + AC are such movies - and you can see glaring holes all the way. It just takes a lot of time to figure this out the first time. Then you kind of know what to expect.

Who the hell goes and picks up the storyboards, concept works, compares script versions and then watches a movie? Only few dedicated people :)

 @BioDegradable: There's a great Giger painting there, his phallus seeking out other planets to penetrate and infect;)

No, it carried archbishop of Canterbury.

I assume you where asking about the ship on which David arrived at Planet 4.

If you were asking about the life pod which Janek ejected with Vickers just before hitting the ship, then the deacon, that creature that is not quite a xeno is never shown to be carried anywhere.

@BioDegradable: So the UFO carried a Deacon?

Replicants, in a BR world anyway, are not robots - they are humans, with same organic tissues. That is there are no mechanical parts in them. They are grown in labs rather than in wombs.

As far as accepting your fate goes, perhaps just perhaps, they are not OK with an unidentified UFO coming on them and spraying them with a deadly agent. That is just plain murder. Perhaps they have lived for millions of years, generation after generation, practicing their ways on their terms, where they sacrifice life to seed life, yet here comes a UFO, completely out of blue and does something quite out of the protocol where it just takes their lives for nothing wiping the whole population by spraying some shit in the process.

If sacrifice was a typical part of the Engineers' cultural ritual, why were they shown fleeing in the playback, attempting to escape a fate of sacrifice/ infection?

@BigDave: And if the Engineers on LV-223 are replicant equivalents to the Planet 4 inhabitants, why did the Deacon not come out appearing more mechanoid?

Indeed the thing to remember here is that the Plot has been changing constantly.... the Plot we have NOW is not exactly the same as the the first concept.. in terms of the Engineers.

There are a number of Scenes that have NEVER been shown for Prometheus, the Scene of the Engineer being knocked out of his Chair and then running across LV-223 to the Life-Boat, the Books Scene where the Engineer picks up a Book and looks at it..   A extended Hologram Engineer Scene (after David activates the Juggernaught). But there are stills from these Scenes on the Internet and other resources.

The Engineer Speaks Scene is maybe also cut down (even in the deleted scene), Fassbender had to Learn many Pages of Dialect and Ian Whyte also had to learn a lot, but his contribution was dubbed over with some Gibberish that just sounded more Menacing. We also have not seen the FULL Elders Scene, the Actor who played the Sacrificial Engineer (Daniel Twiss) said he had to learn a few lines of Alien Dialect in a Conversation with a Elder.  So there was a  TWO-WAY Dialog during that Scene that we have not seen but we only have one Extract of what the Elder Says.

The thing is they chop and change scenes to suit the changes of direction or how much they intend to reveal.

The Full Engineer Speaks and Last Battle Scenes would have given us a different insight into the Engineer rather than being a angry being intend on Destroying Mankind.

I was drawn after seeing those scenes that the Engineer was intrigued by seeing the Humans, it seemed he was very interested in the sight of a Female and her Questions. (The Plot prior to Prometheus Release was these Engineers had lost the ability to Procreate). It seemed to me though that the Engineer Witnessed the Selfish Actions of Weyland and how he saw ONLY what he wanted as being important and the context of what Weyland Wanted.. the Engineer realized that INDEED Mankind are a Cruel and Selfish Race, despite a few who could prove otherwise, the risk of allowing Mankind to Live and especially NOW they can Travel the Stars and Create a Life-Form that can use their Engineer Technology as a MASSIVE threat to their kind. 

So the Engineer had no Choice but to Carry on the Mission and Eradicate Earth.

It was a while after i had been driven to these conclusion, that i came across these IMAGES

The Surviving Engineers POD was called the Hero Pod and so we could ask HOW was he a Hero?, WHY only he survived?

If we looked at him being ONE who had changed his mind and thought  that Mankind Did-not need to be Destroyed and so he then Sabotaged the Mission.  This would indeed make him a HERO of sorts to our Savior, it would explain a bit of his reaction and intrigue to Dr Shaw and the things he was interested in the Life-Boat.   We could then see that ONCE he discovers Mankind is still Cruel and Selfish and have not changed our ways and NOW they can Travel the Stars and use their Technology (via David) the Engineer had NO choice but to carry on with the Mission, his Brothers were Correct.

I do think this was the intention at the point of Production and Shooting...  But things change and this is not the OUTLOOK of our Engineers at the time of the Release of Prometheus.    Things further changed with Alien Covenant because it is now indicated those LV-223 Engineers are not the Originals and those Original Planet 4 Engineers are FAR from Immortal only living for 150 years...  Also at the time of Prometheus the Xenomorph was NOT a Creation by David.

Another thing i was drawn to after seeing Prometheus that i discussed here many years ago as the Reaction of the Engineer towards David... when he touched David, it seemed to me the Engineer had pity for David and Sympathy but a dislike for Weyland and Ultimately he had to destroy David and Weyland because of the Threat they pose.

I was drawn to ponder back then IF the Engineer and David are similar, Enhanced Beings meant to Serve and so the Engineer had pity for David because David reminds him of what his Purpose was.

I find it interesting with AC the Reveal by RS in comments made, that the Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals... which leads me to think that our Prometheus Engineers are to those Planet 4 beings as Replicants are to Humans, if this is the case then indeed my thoughts on the Engineer and his reaction to David in that he sees David is similar could be close to what RS was going for.

BigDave, the scene which most likely you are talking about ( this one, right?, btw turn on the captions  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5j1Y8EGWnc ) where the woken up fellow has somewhat longer conversation with David only shows that he was extremely disturbed by being woken up by the expedition team.

Shaw was saying that the bombs were made on LV-223, and it was meant for humans. And she wonders what was that they screwed-up so wrong. Then there is a sequence of Weyland asking for more life and the big fellow telling through David why Weyland wanted more life. If you watch and read the captions, the big fellow supposedly says : "Why does he want more life? What makes this man so great as to ask such a thing?" Before I go on and address the conjecture that there might have been sort of sabotage, a couple of observations wrt to the clip.

If we are to believe that captions are legit and come from the legit source then, this is not the first time engineers are asked for more life by "men". Because if you look at his reply to Weyland he asks what makes Weyland such a great man. Apparently, according to this giant, "great" men from the past have asked for more life. What a contrast, isn't it? While those folks on Planet 4 are probably grown to seed life by sacrifice, some "great" humans on earth wanted more life instead - completely opposite to what those Planet 4 folks where doing? How about a conjecture that all ancient human civilizations, with all the differences among them all wanted one thing in common between all of them - the great kings wanted to live forever, just like Weyland. I have no doubt the engineers are tired to death by their children who are supposedly seeded and given life in their own image and share identical DNA want more life and do not want to sacrifice. This must be blood boiling for the big boys, huh? How come they sacrifice their lives and this sort of shit comes up and says "I want more life, father"....lol.

Of course then comes Weyland telling that he alone has built David from scratch, which might be revealing to the big fellow as Weyland is someone who might have been seeded by engineers, with his predecessors given some sort of technology, like fire and some other rudimentary means, yet here he is standing tall in front of his master pointing finger at his master claiming "he built that thing from nothing" that he is a god, a creator and deserves to live forever. Weyland should have said at the end of his soliloquy : "Ignorance is bliss". Something we know engineers don't do - live forever themselves. I can see why the big boy might have had enough with these "great men".

However, what surprised me a bit more is that for the engineer, David, who is an android and is completely different to humans, which no doubt became apparent to the big boy once he dismembered his head from his body, did not present any interest. The engineer might be familiar with human bodies, but the fact that David is not one bit interesting for him tells me that He, the big boy must have seen likes of David numerous times in the past. Perhaps at one point they had such chatter boxes and bundles of awesomeness as David in the past?

As for the other deleted scene, big boy's attention is captured by the typography of the books, the lighting from the fixture in the pod and the music/video from the screen. Perhaps David would tell him - "Bravo, you have symphonies in you brother" had he more time with the big boy. So supposedly a synthetic android is not interesting to the big boy, yet some typefaces and melodies are interesting. Something is not right here. Either the typefaces and the music were extremely similar to what he heard before or he is a bit of a act first and think later type of guy, which is entirely possible, if he was some sort of military guy who needed to terminate the source of threat first and deal with the evidence later on.

In either case, I can't really see how he, the big guy was either the party who sabotaged or was on the receiving end of the sabotage. If he was sabotaging, then, it must be the other fellow engineers who are dead who were sabotaged and he is alive. Supposedly, now that they are dead, he can go and wipe the humans. Ironically though it is humans who came and woke him up. Had the Prometheus crew had proper risk assessment done, and employed proper protocols and engagement rules in place that engineer perhaps would have had a bit more trouble killing them all. Just imagine that they brought with them a bit of tools, heavy machinery, a few RPGs and perhaps some lasers with big ass chains :) "If he bleeds we can kill it".

If he was sabotaged instead, which is possible, then he missed his alarm clock by a lot(2000+ years). He wakes up and his first hunch is to go in a hurry and wipe the earth. So he realizes that he must have lost a lot of time and he must be fast. Then the sabotage is done by someone who released the pathogen on his fellows. Probably he was supposed to be woken up from cryosleep and bomb the Earth when his ship arrived at the vicinity of Earth, but apparently something went south.

On meta-level, in both of the cases the grand picture doesn't quite add up to what Ridley was telling behind the cameras - that there was a breakout and something went wrong. His whole point was that by chance a disease has stopped big boys in the tracks and that is it. Has there been a sabotage arc, Prometheus would warrant a prequel for itself - which was not what RS was doing right? Because, otherwise, suddenly, a short story which was supposed to be a prequel to the Alien becomes this drama about engineers which needs at least one or more prequels of its own. This was never planned, hence, it has been cut - the stories which open up possibilities need to be cut otherwise people will complain that the movie was chopped up and lacked focus.

In any case, telling self consistent, short yet meaningful stories, with detailed and supposedly worked out internal logic is tough, impossible really. Especially if you planned it to be just a prequel with run time shorter than 3 hours.

"The way I see it is that David is not a David 8, but the original prototype that the Davids 1-8 were based upon"

This certainly was the change after Prometheus and WHY the Weyland Industries Website and Back-ground to Prometheus was taken down as it contradicts the NEW Direction they have taken.  It is likely that David is a David 8 Model with David 1 Soul uploaded to it, i think every Model of David would have upgrades to them and improvements and its likely Weyland would upload his David to the Prototype of his next Model and continue.

This is the kind of thing i discussed here a few years ago, as it was my theory that Weyland was trying to Perfect a Synthetic Being so that the DAY Weyland could upload a Human Soul into a AI then Weyland would have achieved his IMMORTALITY and this is the Plot i had with my Prometheus 2 Project that i abandoned late 2013/early 2014 which was called Project Rook, this Project Failed because he could NEVER Perfect a AI that could deal with Complex Emotions and the AI Weyland would become Unstable and go Mad...  so Weyland had to turn to Dr Shaw and Holloways Chasing GODS to get his Immortality.  The Final Act of my Prometheus Sequel was to show that Project Rook gets Activated by Miss Vickers before she is Assassinated (revealed as a Synthetic) and then Project Rook would upload Weylands AI Soul into the System.

@BioDegradable

Nice to see you have some similar thinking regarding the Dangers of pursuit of Perfecting, including Genomes, i had posted my replies before i came across your related replies, nice to think Great Minds Think Alike ;)  But indeed its things like this that are driving RS and his Plot for his Prequels... because to a degree such Enhanced Humanoids could be seen as a kind of AI because AI means Artificial Created Life, which i think he has alluded the Engineers on LV-223 could be.  AI does not mean Tin-Can Robots and Electronics, but so many seem to think thats what a AI is.

So its also relevant to the reply i made to Gavin.... which is that a Potential Evolution Stage to Mankind in Future could be when we can UPLOAD our Souls into a Synthetic and Immortal Body.... but this would NOT be a Natural Evolution but a Artificial One.

"The interesting part is what sort of world he would create next"

This indeed is the interesting part, and reflects a lot to the Paragraph or so you mentioned prior (that i had not yet commented on).  Ridley Scott tells us that the next movie will not be about the Xenomorphs, but it will be about AI and he asks what kind of a World would David Create. This could indicate that we would not be in for a Movie where David merely uses the Colonist to Produce Xenomorphs.   Could David attempt to Perfect Himself?  i cant see him remaining in the next movie with ONE HAND and so its likely there are Walter Spare Parts that he transcends himself into.  Does David attempt to set up a NEW EDEN? its what he had planned with Dr Shaw but she rejected... would David want to take Humanity and Subject it to the kind of Rules he would want them to follow?  Knowledge is KEY it is what Corrupts...  and i attempted in my Alien Covenant Sequel to show that David has set up a Colony where he becomes kind of a king David/Mosses kind of Figure and Savior to Humanity (a New Start for a Lucky Few Colonists)  But eventually some of these Humans discover Davids Secret and HELL breaks loose.

I think the Synopsis for Ridley Scotts Raised by Wolves Sci-Fi is interesting, because you cant help but wonder if this is some of the ideas he had for Alien Covenants Sequel.   If David can upload himself to a Walter Body and Pretend to be Walter, and awaken some of the Colonist and have them Build a Colony and then he does away with them in some place to Create Eggs...  He could then raise the Human Embryos though Childhood, to Adulthood and then he could TELL these Humans ANY Story he wishes, ANY History he wishes, and even he could CLAIM to be their Creator and GOD. etc.   My Alien Ascension Plot was similar but it was not about killing off all the Colonist and Raising the Children... not quite... because Time-Wise this has to lead to ALIEN and only leave 10 years prior to ALIEN by the Time David gets to Origae-6.

I cant help but think if RS had some similar ideas, and that the WHAT KIND of a World would David Build, as being a Important Focus..... and i cant help but think with a AC sequel looking unlikely at present.. if Ridley Scott has taken some of his ideas and will use them in his TV Series RAISED BY WOLVES

Regarding the Engineers, RS had said they Return and it seems the Set-up is that the 3rd sequel to Prometheus could very well deal with the Engineers and Xenomorph more.  It seems the THEME of Creation and Rebellion and Hubris are not over in RS mind as it seems this is what he wanted to Follow after Prometheus and he claims with that Movie and Idea he was ahead of the Curve.... I think in RS mind the Xenomorph is not seen as the Fundamental Focus of his idea. 

But i think the attempted Perfection of Davids Xenomorph by David or the Engineers or related MUST come into play to lead us to the Back Door of ALIEN and despite the comments by RS, i would think David would be more interested in his OWN Creation, which may not mean Xenomorphs because who knows what else he could attempt to Create.  But then a HIVE MIND would be considered a kind of AI so who knows.

"To bring David's angle to this set-up : imagine if morons made you. Wouldn't he, David, have some sort of loyalty?"

This is potentially true, like i covered in the previous post, we cant assume a AI we create that become so Evolved would instantly want to Destroy Mankind.. They could take some form of Control and Loose Imprisonment of our species so as to Save ourselves from destroying ourselves.

"humans, engineers all these ancient beings became obsolete"

Certainly see that David would see himself as Superior to Engineers and Humans, for the Engineers were subject to being infected by their Deadly Bio-Weapon and it looks like David can use this TOOL to his own ends with no consequences to his own Body, only consequence would come from whatever he may create with it.   If we look at the Large Theme at Play then the Engineers are only Superior to David via Virtue of Knowledge.  And those Enhanced Engineers on LV-223 by Virtue of Greater Strength, so a next Logical Step for David in Terms of Evolution (because he is NOT Perfect yet) would be to aspire to Perfect Himself, and Walter has some Advancements over David as far as Physically.. for David to become Perfect he would need a means of having a Body that can Self-Repair or Spare Parts that can be swapped for him to remain Immortal to a Degree.    And so another thing the Engineers (LV-223) had over David was the Size and Strength and so for a AI like David he may aspire to Create for himself a Superior Larger Body so that he can be Physically Stronger to match his Superior intellect.  Either such Upgrades could come at a Great Hubris for David down the line.

"In this setup, humans are divided into two : morons and normals"

Indeed it shows that Knowledge and Greater Intelligence are a key factor, its what many speculate had led to WHY the Nethandrals Died out and Humans Did-not.  And indeed tinker with the Brain and Intelligence is something of a risk,  for if we created Perfect Humans who would have the most Superior Psychical Attributes of our kind, and modified Genomes so that we are Immune to 99.99& of all Illness and Diseases and have Organs that do-not Age or Fail, if we CREATE such a Perfect Human and these beings have a IQ of say 200+ then their is the risk that down the line these Humanoids (if they can Procreate) could OVERTAKE the Earth and see Humans as 2nd Class Citizens. 

We could extend this to Tinkering with created a Hybrid, if we can Bridge the Gap in DATA that differs in our Genomes to a Apes and Create a Hybrid, IF we then are able to Grant these Hybrids the ability to have a IQ of 90+ then this could be a GREAT Hubris to Mankind and basically lead to a Planet of the Apes Scenario...  I think in either case it would be a Grave Mistake, like the Creation of David and i think in part this is a Lesson those Engineers had learned and maybe in part of the "tried to banish the Wolf" comment by David in the Advent came from.

The conversation between the two chatbots looked like below and, even if it doesn't make much sense to us (save for the fact that Alice have no balls :)), you can recognize a pattern that comes from two entities used with the binary code:

"Bob: i can i i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to

Bob: you i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have a ball to me to me to me to me to me to me to me

Bob: i i can i i i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have a ball to me to me to me to me to me to me to me

Bob: i . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to

Bob: you i i i i i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have 0 to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to

Bob: you i i i everything else . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Alice: balls have zero to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to me to"

"the lesson from David is that if you let a perfect, relatively ageless being like him get EMOTIONAL "

Certainly is and this is something i have covered a number of times and what Ridley Scott feels is the more Terrifying Threat.  Knowledge is Power and Knowledge/Power can Corrupt Absolutely.   This is not a reply to your reply, just me giving some TWO CENTS to the Pitfalls of Creating a being that Potentially becomes more Superior to its Creator.

There is the Potential that ONCE we let that Genie out of the Lamp, and create a AI like David that becomes Sentient, it could mean either Harmony for Mankind or Doom. Where the AI would likely see the Threat of Mankind and maybe reduce our Numbers but then keep us like we keep animals in a Zoo so they can keep us alive and give us all our needs but NOT allow us to Roam Free because of the ways that Mankind could end up going back to.  I dont think its for certain that a AI Creation would want to DESTROY all Mankind i think this would be unlikely but they would want to reduce our Number and Contain us for sure. (which is why i think its possible the Engineers may have taken some Humans away from Earth in Small Numbers to then watch over on another World and Learn from their Mistakes of letting Mankind Populate to a Great Number).

If we created a AI like David, then i think the biggest threat to Sentient AI is indeed itself.... if David passed on the same Gifts he has to many Walter Models, eventually some of those Sentient Androids would have their own Agenda and Views and could lead to Internal Conflict between different Factions of Androids ONCE they become independent.   The other likely Threat to any such Advanced Sentient AI we could create, would be WHEN this AI decides to Sub-Create and Creates something more Superior to itself so the CYCLE then continues... and i think this is a Underlying Theme that is at play within the Prequels.

This gets me thinking of IF the Greatest Threat to the Engineers was the attempted Creation/Evolution of those beings we saw in Prometheus. (LV-223 Engineers).