Comments (Page 323)

@ignorantGuy

In a sense he had. 

However I think you are touching on another truth about episodic film making. 

Not only has the back ground (how it all fits together) got to be coherent but your characters that run through it have to grow in significance in the way they affect the narrative.

So for David to go from minor irritant to abolisher of worlds makes sense except for two reasons in this case.

1) We have no relationship with planet 4 and worse still we have idea how it fits in so it feels plot point convenient rather than a build.

2) It reduces him to "I got lucky these guys turned up."

If he had come into a great history and stumbled into changing EVERYTHING for the worse (or better) than we have some relativism to build on.  

It is not outlandish however to call him a Nazi for some reasons:

1. exterminating (with an airborne substance) and experimenting (like Mengele) on beings he deems inferior (humans = monkeys and the engineers = freaks).

2. he likes of drawing and of Wagner (just like Adi H.), and feels that his creativity was suppressed/not recognized by some foreign power (humans). 

3.  He is blonde and has blue eyes.

4. Wants to create the perfect life-form, that is perfect only for wiping out other living creatures. This is the just as corrupt interpretation of the Ubermensch concept of Nietzsche as the Nazis, as the original concept is related to living to ones full potential and surpass it.

Ok the waters were muddied with references to Satan, Loki and to Hannibal Lecter, but facts are that he is pretty much a Nazi (without the salute and panzers and things as such). There was even a review on the webs that made the comparison, also stating that the Xenomorph is the ugly right-winger that resides in everyone of us and the incompetent crew of the Covenant the liberal establishment.

Regarding the "gay" scenes, for me personally was more masturbatory than anything else, but no comment.

yeah weyland doesn't seem to be able to understand what it is that he has created! he is a bit of an oaf though as the movie shows.....he doesn't seem to be capable of understanding value, only power.....this is what worshipping money does to a person!

With regards to the post, I really do hope David gets a better death than a Xeno he created killing him.

To be honest, I hope David doesn't make an appearance in Alien: Awakening or at least no more than 10 min of the movie or so.

I really hope Ridley goes forward like he has been doing with these prequels and gives us something very fresh AND something that gets us to appreciate Alien: Covenant more in the process.

I could love Alien: Covenant as long as Alien: Awakening is something complete differently.

I think a lot of people on this forum, including myself, are taking one movie out of a WHOLE franchise and saying, "This is how it's going to be."

Alien and Aliens were to completely differently styled movies.  Alien3 even came in with something fresh and seemed to mix the two styles of Alien and Aliens.  Alien3 just had some plot decisions that may have not made 100% sense.  Alien: Resurrection was something completely fresh because it was just so, in my words, weird (especially at the end).

To me, the original four movies have something unique to them which makes them all exciting to watch again and again.

Alien: Covenant is no different.  It's unique, but I don't think it is now the definition of how all Alien movies will be made from now on (or at least if Ridley Scott stays in control).

All Ridley has got to do with Alien: Awakening is make it unique AND he needs to finish his prequels with a bang.  If the ending sucks, it would just leave behind the great buildup we got in Prometheus and the philosophical, thoughtful attitude we get in Alien: Covenant.

Unique and epic is the way to go for Alien: Awakening to me.

Plus, give David a more appropriate death than something as predictable as a Xeno he created killing him.

BigDave said, "We got a few on here and other sites more, in regards to Nazi and Homophobic comments aimed towards the Character David portrayed in Alien Covenant."

If you're talking about me in this homophobic comments, then you're wrong.  I've never said David was homophobic.  The user "Ati" just kept reading what I said as me saying David is a homo.

I've never said that or have ever thought that.

David is a much more complicated character than that.  I could see how some person could say that since he did kiss another person who also looks like a man.

I feel like we got TONS of character development with David in Alien: Covenant by the way.

@Michelle Johnston, well. what puzzles to this day is that some people consider that killing off Shaw was losing the fat or that the prequels were always about D.

And sincerely, I would like this series not to Lead into Alien, but to be in a parallel universe where David manages to wipe put all life. 

Good point. Interestingly Weyland publicly and pointedly mentioned David had no soul- and that seemed to stick in David's craw. 

true dk. with that being said though, the faith based belief system is one that has immortality as its' object. david seems to be in a position to be able to offer that to his creators, should he want to do so though, no?

David is neither. To be recognized as a god or hades, it seems one would first require a basic faith based belief system.

@ignorantGuy

You asked me about what Damon had in his mind after he had co written Prometheus. Tonight whilst doing some research that was quite unrelated I found something which is entirely new to me, which it turns out is very closely calibrated to my vision but I want to quote from Damon.

“there are a lot more answers there than people think there are and room for theories, but the movie needed to end in a way that is Shaw still searching. She is not satisfied with the answers that she got. I think that’s very indicative, hopefully, if Shaw is supposed to be the audience proxy, they’re supposed to be feeling the same way that she is at the end of the movie.”

How utterly extra ordinary that one of the co writers of the movie who discussed with Jon and Ridley "what else" the movie would lead to makes it absolutely clear that Elizabeth is our proxy. I feel vindicated that i was right and upset in equal measure that the person that was driving the narrative on our behalf was turned over so badly. There is more where this comes from but it would act as a spoiler to my novella.

In answer to this thread its very simple David in his current arc cannot act as our proxy indeed we should all be baying for his A I lubricant.  

Thank you BigDave. I thought you'd like it....will try and look for more classic items to dust off and polish anew.

I still hope to see on film when Dr. Shaw gives David's plans the thumbs down. I can only imagine that David can create the Paradise he had in mind with the scores of good souls at his disposal to devour on the Covenant ship now.

Wouldn't it be nice to be surprised in the next film?

When David told Oram he was missing one thing, "Mother", I took this as anticipation and not just the missing ingredient. 

The image above from 5 years after the events on LV-223 shows that, I assume, David was well into his studies on Planet 4 in July of 2099. David may have been telling the truth to the Covenant crew when he said that he had arrived 10 years before in 2094 with Elizabeth.

How long did they get along on Planet 4 before the disagreement preceding what happened to Dr. Shaw?

Is there something else David is anticipating such as another arrival of a different sort other than Mother?

I'm still stuck with the question of whether or not David was in contact with central AI.

I've tried to remove the raster from the image below to see if we could unveil the underlying text and tease out where Planet 4 is or any other data that might mean something to someone else reading this.

The original image is above with the below image run through multiple filters and a reverse value layer to attempt to reduce the raster and clear up the underlying text...not sure it helps us much. 

No new information from this was teased out by myself...so if someone else can understand and read the coordinates....great!

lol uv convinced me. I wanted more Shaw aswell. ok maybe not the best performance (what was with that accent?) but the character was original n should have seen at least 1 more movie. ok have her fate be the same. maybe David resists using her in his experiments due to his feelings for her but uses Daniels and when Shaw reacts badly to this David accidently kills her so no point wasting good meat

@ali81 I'll give you 10 (or less) compelling reasons that why I'm not RS:

1. I was born in 1986 in Romania (400 miles from Chernobyl and I was still in the womb when the incident happened...)

2. I still live there (so don't blame Brexit on me).

3. I've only been in the UK once and never the US.

4. I liked more Shaw than David.

5. I think that the only hard alcohol tolerable is brandy ... so no (Jack) Daniels for me.

6. I also don't like that Wayne Hagg (or Haag?) guy.

7. I did not care if Deckard was replicant or not.

8.  I don't like psychopaths and I also think that Hannibal is the worst movie/series with Lecter in it.

9. 10. maybe I'll think about something later.

yea def add a shower scene for her in AC(my number 1 choice)

we need more visual in movie explanation to explain the process David goes through to get to where he is in his experiments

make the neo and proto more sinister like the original big fella. have them stalk longer and make them harder to kill.

recast Theron to Shaw or Daniels (Daniels my preferred choice as Waterstone just sucked)

im happy with Prometheus as it was except for how Theron was cast and written. in my top 3 in the franchise where AC is between the AVP fuck ups 

I have to say I don't agree that David is infatuated with Daniels. I don't think he has any feelings towards her what so ever except he sees a second chance to further his experiments.

ignorantguy, please tell me ur not RS in disguise trying to logically defend ur future decisions to trash this franchise great lineage lol

but seriously I know ur predictions are probably gna be close to the mark but man do I hate that this is going to be the case

yeah. i think that would be more interesting. david going rogue and attaining mastery over his emotions and creating a final judgement scenario for humans and angels somewhere in space would be more interesting than him just being 'evil' walter is just too 'good' and submissive!

Ridley says: this planet maybe not the Earth.

And OF COURSE - in opening scene Engineers NOT CREATE all live from nothing.

If it is Earth.

We can see green fields - plants.

And Engineers breathe air.

The main component of air is oxygen.

Oxygen is sub product of cyanobacteria.

Cyanobacreria is a liveform (with looooooong evolution path).

Life was on Earth before Engineers.

And earlier scripts (John Spaihts) tell us - Engineers found Earth and found primitive human-like primates and transform they into humans.

Or my thoughts - another alien race create Engineers FROM earlier humans and then Engineers will rise and started war against they creators and win (fresco from Prometheus). Planet from opening scene is Paradise (Planet 4) or another planet, or... Earth - where engineers returned to give to earlier humans the black goo power (analogy with FIRE from Prometheus myth).

its all guess work at the point but several issues come to mind for some of these questions.

when looking at lv223 in particular, there was always an intrigue on the fans part to re-visit this place. we don't see what becomes of the deacon and as we can see there is def values at the facility that the company would more than likely want to attain for themselves esp the possibility of getting their hands on the engineers ships. but it all depends on what they know. in alien3, Bishop informs Ripley that the company knows everything that happened on the Sulaco as all data is automatically relayed back to base. is this the case in Prometheus? if not, then its safe to assume they don't know anything they did before. Weyland was onboard looking for immortality and if he assumed hed be successful, would his ego allow him to authorise David and the crew to keep the company up to date? if not then the only reason for the company to invest another trillion to go back there would be to find out what happened to the Prometheus. stepping away from the realm of the films themselves, we have to look at how RS wants things done. he may have no interest in returning to lv223 and just wants to expand his story which he may have pitched to Fox as an opportunity for future movies in the franchise as it leaves unanswered questions for other directors to address. I do however believe that at some point, the intended destination will be David's return to lv223 but he either doesn't make it or he does and the derelict is a vessel leaving the planet and when something goes wrong, it crashes on lv426 and that's where the trilogy will end (fucking hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it soooo much)

id love to see them return to lv223. id like to see a fully grown deacon and see it has integrated itself with whatever burst from the engineers but need to see something fresh and not just a rehash of aliens again.

the fact that the company only seems to show interest in lv426 in the originals may be because whever the hero is gna be in the final film in the prequels will most likely have destroyed the facility on lv223 OR the engineers destroy it to stop it falling into our hands and being used against them, AGAIN.

on the fire and stone topic, my thoughts r the same as with the out of the shadows trilogy novels. all these could become AU canon as, if RS goes down the path we assume hes going down where the derelict is concerned, then the events of River of Pain, where we get a scene of Newts parents in the derelict, will never have happened. things like this piss me off about where RS has/may be going after Prometheus. excellent additional work done by true artists and the fans love it, yet itl be trashed in instant because a retarded android with delusions of godhood was the one responsible for crashing the fu...... like I say, I have so many things id love to see, but that was the case after Prometheus n they stuck 2 fingers upto those dreams (thanks to all those who couldn't show patience) and I expect no less with the next film. 

@BigDave "Infatuation with Daniels" where did you get that? 

Also Walter replacement parts? Are we sure that even that he is that kind of a robot? In meet Walter we see that in a exoskeleton white liquid is poured in vacuum and after that a complete MF is born. You also must take into account that Walters have genetic imprint of the user (read the disclaimer), so can they accept any spares if there any? Furthermore, why complicated your self with healing if spares are readily available?

For me it's obvious that D will be at least face-hugged and that's the final evolution of the borest. How? Well he probably (hopefully to not have more MFs) swapped bodies with Walter (who is half biological). We also have Fox's request to remove the thread proposing this. Further, you can't be fully misogynistic without having the loved and killed woman return as a monster/ghost to enact vengeance on the man (wish I've save the article where I read about 19th century literature cliches). Well if the Pygmalion (creating the perfect woman...) stuff was not enough.  

He is also probably the space jockey as he is the only one still important.

I like it ;)

I wonder IF David takes on-board the Company Slogan, and would he attempt to build his own BETTER World....  Also bare in mind he had Intentions to Wipe Planet 4 Clean so HE and Dr Shaw could Create a NEW Paradise.

I know some were interested in seeing how Dr Shaw's Character could have been Evolved and are Sad that she had been KILLED OFF...

With Ridley Scott saying the Sequel would be more to do with AI, and this was indeed something i touched upon years ago with my Prometheus 2 Plot, where i introduce OPERATION ROOK as Peter Weylands True Agenda...    which involves reasons for Technology such as the Dream Visor, the Synapse Re-Stabilizer and the Pursuit in Creating David....  as David will NEVER Die, NEVER Grow Old but he lacks the ONE thing a Human has... a SOUL!

I had i idea for my Prometheus 2 which i canned a long while back, but  brought these ideas into the discussion on Alien Covenant and Weyland prior to the movies Release.

Weyland Wants to Live Forever... he is a Scientist and so would not believe in Gods and After-Life as such... so i suspected he was working on a Project, where IF/ONCE he could upload his Dreams, Memories, Experiences and Emotions to a AI Program and then UPLOAD this to a Synthetic then Peter Weyland would have Conquered Death... and become IMMORTAL and have a SOUL a Existence beyond his Dead Physical Body.... a AI SOUL

But he could not Perfect this and had to Turn to Dr Shaw and her would be GODS to grant him a chance of Longer Life...

NOW... what if David could have Stored Dr Shaws SOUL to a Engineer Computer System.... and then Upload this to a Synthetic Body?  

Its a bit of a Far Stretch.... maybe he could do it with Daniels... the only Problem is we have to assume the only Synthetic Parts at his disposal are WALTER parts and so having David build a Walter with the Soul of Dr Shaw or Daniels and him having a Affection for this Doppelganger with a Love Interest Soul could get a little bit ODD or very CLEVER if done right?

Looking at the Set-Up we need to consider what Ridley Scott has said and so things to consider are these points..

*The Covenant Ship will arrive at the Planet (Assume Origae-6)

*The movie will be about what kind of a World David would create.

*It would not be about Xenomorphs but more to do with AI.

*There will be 3-4 incoming Parties (i assume 3-4 factions that arrive after David/Colonist get to Origae-6).

*One of these Parties will be the Engineers, who return back to Planet 4 and discover the Destruction and want to Hunt down the Culprit.

*David has left TWO Messages for Earth/Weyland-Yutani, One that informs them of his Work and introduces himself as David on a Secure Connection.. The other as Walter Informing them of a accident and loss of the Crew and that they are continuing with their Mission to Origae-6.

*The Covenant wont arrive at Origae-6 until 10 years prior to ALIEN and around the End of April 2112.

*The ADVENT suggests David has to Perfect his Queen, and (Katherine Waterston) had indicated she heard that her Role was very Important/Interesting as far as were they was going with her Character but said this was in part Rumors a while back.

*The Movie would set up a Final Connecting Movie to ALIEN

*Davids Xenomorph have some Evolving to go as they are not Quite there yet (Bio-Mechanical)

*Davids Evolved Creations will end up on a Engineer Ship in their Thousands.

*This Ship crashes on LV-426 (near by LV-223) which are both NO-WHERE near Origae-6

"He will be attacked and will eventually crash on LV-426 as the big guy. That's it."

Looking at the Scenario you see, a number of others on here are Fearful of David  or Walter becoming the Space Jockey, i really hope not as this would UPSET the Fans more than the Changes to Canon that Alien Covenant has already accomplished and then we have the Size Difference.... but then Clearly the Engineers are also not 13-15 Ft tall either.

I think we need to look at the Clues and whats been Set-up and bare in mind Ridley Scotts Comments... But the KEY thing is to consider David what his Agenda is and what would he do to suit his Goal/Ambition and i think the MAIN things for him would be.

*Charade himself as Walter to the Colonist.

*Coverup the Events that happened on Planet 4.

If David gets rid of Daniels, a Tennessee may start to peice things together and want to know HOW/WHEN this happened, so unless he is Smoking too much POT (or Drinking too much JD) or he is not the Sharpest Knife in the Draw, i think he could start to pick up on things and eventually suspect something.

Also Tennessee knows about what happened on Planet 4, so he would inform some of the Colonist of this and it only takes a few Insightful Colonists to start to suspect stuff.

Having Tennessee and Daniels Eliminated from the Equation would give David a Fresh Start to then come up with his own Version of Events.

The ideas i had for a Sequel (Alien: Ascension) to show that David takes care of Tennessee, but continue with the Semi-Prequel Novel (Alien: Covenant Origins) i was going to have David inform the Colonist that there was a bunch of Saboteurs on the Ship and One of those was Tennessee who has killed Daniels, and few others.

David could Alter Logs and Evidence to support this....

But David with his Narcissistic Nature and Infatuation with Daniels has her kept some place secret, as he uses her for his Queen... Eventually he gets rumbled when she is Discovered and he attempts to Silence those who found out with a Xenomorph, but this Back-Fires as a Outbreak then occurs.

There would be incoming Engineers and TWO Weyland Missions... One Brings David a NEW Love Interest... and SHE becomes the Queen to the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorphs in the 3rd Movie (Alien: Absolution) this Loss Caused by the Engineers upsets David and the Covenant he makes with them, he BREAKS causing the Space Jockey Event and Destruction of LV-223. In the 3rd Act of the Final Movie (Alien: Absolution) 

I think  maybe we could see him Evolve to gain some kind of Redemption, or Redeemable Qualities or acts.  Or even have him forgive Mankind/Give them a 2nd Chance?

The getting the Poem Wrong was to Highlight that Walters Concerns about how long David has gone without Maintenance is causing him problems...  I think it could be as he Evolves his Emotions these become so Complex for a AI that it leads to Errors/Irrational Thinking.

My Prometheus 2 was to explore AI as in a AI Soul and have it revealed this was Weylands Agenda with David, a Vessel for Weylands Memories, Emotions and Experiences however the AI Program that would be used to Upload Weylands Soul could not be Perfected and the AI Weyland would always become Emotionally and Mentally Broken and Unstable.

to sum up, if he does mirror the fallen nature of man then surely his achieving full blown sentience also includes the possibility of achieving a higher state of total forgiveness following a preliminary path of evil which would place him closer to the arc of God?

that's true david, but on the other hand, he has imperfections which he doesn't think are a big deal.....e.g. getting the shelley poem wrong,  a human thing. his retaliation was severe....but perhaps the severity of walter expecting him to be perfect says more. i dunno, i just don't think it's as clear cut. he has elements of both in him, much like us, the only problem is that he is immortal, whereas we are not.

Whatever way you go about it, like him or not, David holds they keys to the story.

He will dispose off Daniels, since she is positive about his identity and therefore poses risk to his future plans, whatever they may be. No ifs about this. Tennessee doesn't have a clue about David/Walter switcheroo, and seemingly to David he is oblivious to his little game. David will want Tee to stay, because, he will carry the authority to the story about what happened on the planet they picked up a signal from. Walter will use Tee to wash the story to the colonists.

Of course, Tee will eventually uncover the circumstances under which Daniels would be gone, as no doubt would be reported by David(pretending to be Walter) to him. Recall, David doesn't have a clue about what happened to the original Captain of the Covenant - long gone but still remembered husband of Daniels. Tee knows that Walter would have known about this event. David however doesn't know about this event.

What will probably happen is, we will be shown how a new planet would be terraformed by the settling colonists. But strange creatures will appear(and this is the time I suppose Tee will recognize them, having seen one such creature before, and will confront David and uncover his true identity).

An unexpected thing(a joker really) that might happen is that Walter recovers the crashed engineer ship and arrives at Origae 6 just at the right time. Eventually, David will be forced to flee and he will take the ship and recover some of his eggs. He will be attacked and will eventually crash on LV-426 as the big guy. That's it.

Weyland Yutani will get an update on what happened but will be missing the input from lost David. They will want to find about his destiny and the beast, at any cost.

Regarding the Development of a Prometheus Sequel, it was stuck in Limbo while they could not figure a Story to Stick too...    The Summer of 2015 was a period of where work had taken place on what seems a New Direction where indeed Harper and Logans drafts are similar.  It would be interesting to see How Much was carried from Micheal Greens last Draft to the Covenant Type Plot.

But what ever this Evolved from, and what ever the Process from 2012-2015 i think no longer matters in terms of were they maybe Plan to go Forwards from now on.

Certainly the Comments RS made 2012-2013 and indeed what he made 2014 and early 2015 seem to not Match what most of Alien Covenant was about... so it appears some significant U-Turn had been made.

"There were multiple Davids and all of other Ridleys comments"

Indeed i remember when this came out, and wondered how does this play into things...  The Source i had, did suggest there are Multiple Davids but Dont Expect a Platoon of them.

I wonder how this now fits with RS thinking?  He claims the next movie would be about AI more than anything...  I am not sure how Fans would React to Many Davids....   We did get Multiple Androids in Alien Covenant,  and at the time of the Announcement we was told there would be a Doppelganger which i felt was odd to call ANOTHER Android and so i pondered if this was a Human in his likeness or a Android that is different (Synthetic Construct)

What we got was WALTER and the interesting thing is the Marketing where a Emphasis seems to be on the WE ARE WALTER which means they have a common connection and possibly could be connected to perform as a Collective if explored in Future.   Looking at the Paradise Lost Theme.... and Prometheus one..   we see that David did ask Walter to join him.... which he refused..

So i think its possible they could show us what happens when the WE ARE WALTERS become Fallen by the Hands of David....

Would Fans be happy with seeing Multiple Fassbender Robots, on a Scale of 5,10, 20 or more lol

I think there is the possibility of more Walters, due to the Nature of Walter and his Role and the Covenant Mission.  If Mankind had fears and concerns about the David Models, you would be Reluctant to HAVE more than ONE Synthetic on a ship.... even though Walter clearly Serves and is not Sentient like David.

But having a Walter is a Big Bonus for a Colonization Mission as there are so many things he can do better than a Human... so having a SYNTHETIC on board makes sense....

We have to Remember a Synthetic is IMMORTAL to a degree, provided you Maintain them, and have Spare Parts and as i was touching upon a lot with AI and my plans for Prometheus 2.... If you uploaded the Synthetics SOUL so to speak, then even a Badly Damaged Walter can be Resurrected to Serve again with all his knowledge instead of a Fresh Reboot.

So IF Walter has SPARE parts... would they not have every Spare Part?

We cant see David playing a ONE HANDED Robot... and so to Charade as Walter, if he Built a Walter Body from Parts and Uploaded his AI SOUL to this, then he could go around with those Colonist pretending to be WALTER... then EDIT the Logs/System to then give his own version of Events...   I feel he will keep Daniels locked up some place though and ONCE the Colonist discover her... then David is Rumbled and he then has NO Choice but to Unleash his Demons to deal with those who KNOW his Secret.

THIS is what i assume may happen, it is what i would have done.

ANOTHER thing about the We are Walter.... is HOW MANY parts are there for him?  Enough to make a Number of Walters?  How Dangerous would this be if DAVID builds multiple Walters that are given the Forbidden Knowledge Free-Will of David and become Fallen?

I still suspect the Viral for Walter where some of his construction has a Organic Aesthetic is more than just for Aesthetics, Davids Xenomorph is not BIO-MECHANICAL...  and IF the Walter Models are kind of Bio-Mechanical i think thats a Set-up for our Xenomorph in ALIEN, the WALTER-MORPH

A Theme of Prometheus and Paradise Lost is Hubris, Hubris from Sub-Creation and Free-Will.  

So David in a Bio-Mechanical Body could leave him open to become infected...

Multiple Walters Re-Programed to accept Davids Commands than the Default Programing could also lead to a Problem if THESE become Sentient against David....  Turning on him... or David sees this and his Xenomorphs are unleashed on them.... maybe leading to ONE to give Birth to a Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph...  WHAT WOULD DAVID think when he sees that?

So there are a number of Avenues to continue with and arrive at our Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph, and indeed AI could play a LARGE role in this.

@ignorantGuy

I am quite sure he looked at the Engineer City in A C with its Greco Roman come Buddha vibe and thought thats not where we were going. We were going somewhere deeply unpleasant where there was an upside down morality and the underlying thread was to do with the relationship between the mechanical and the biological construct where the source of power was more machine than not. If you put multiple Davids in there his next task is to go up against something which is essentially like him and of course Elizabeth finds out that her creators are not nice after all. So neither David or Elizabeth like them for different reasons. So the themes were inverted paradise and that although we are biological we are still "made" and all that stuff about an immortal soul is hoie.

Indeed i think as Thoughts_and_Dreams brings up a lot, you really need Characters, and you need to be drawn into them to feel like you could be in their situation and relate to it..   It seems this is why AC had a slow build up, like ALIEN and it seems the Novel had much more of a Build up, which would have maybe helped us connect to the Characters...  But indeed when they are making a Movie that they are trying to give a little here and there to please all... it means to keep such detailed build up from the Novel would make add a extra 20 minutes to the First Act, which could affect Pacing of the movie as it could get to dragged out for those who want to get right into the Action/Horror and Mystery.     But as you say Michelle, even investing in Characters is a flaw if you are going to KILL them all off.

The Ending to Alien Covenant was flawed because of the Reveal, it was done this way to in part SURPRISE the Audience, but come on how many saw this was going to happen anyway... so in having Daniels know who David is, means now he has to either Kill/Experiment on her, or he may due to his very Narcissistic Nature he may wish to use her as a Play Thing, subject her to stuff or have her know what his intentions are but have her incapacitated so she cant do nothing to stop him.

If they did make Daniels the NEW Dr Shaw where we arrive at her just being a Corpse, then it would be a COP OUT.

So the Problem they have is the connecting tissue to ALIEN, if we are going for Alien Covenant => Its Sequel => Final Chapter to Alien.

Its how do they Carry a Character from the First Movie to the Last, how do we have a Tennessee and/or Daniels last through another TWO movies?  We could be introduced to NEW Characters in the Next one, which if a Handful are done RIGHT and they survive until the 3rd Part of this New Alien: Prequel Trilogy maybe it could work?

It seems the ONE connecting Character to it all is DAVID, but some are already not happy with his Arc, and its hard to connect to a Non-Human Character unless you bring out some Humanity to him, Sadly a Narcissistic Tyrant Android is not going to do this... IF this role does not change and David is the Big Part i do feel that by the end of the Next Movie a lot of Fans may not be interested in the Final Chapter apart from IF the Set-Up seems to lead to Engineers vs Xenomorphs and our Spoon Fed Space Jockey Event... But a Popcorn Flick Final Movie may be nothing to go back to time after time.

Why i think they have to give some Background to get us to understand WHY David has become how he has, and maybe have David have a Change of Heart and Abandon his Xenomorphs in Persuit of giving Mankind the Fresh Start...  but Have David Act like a Noah.. and so having these Humans abide to Rules so they Steer from becoming the Corrupt beings that we had on Earth.

This could work maybe... until either David has his Xenomorphs as a Punishment for those who Stray or the Colonist Accidentally discover who David is and what he had done before, or discover his Xenomorphs.  Then HELL breaks loose.

Well the Seeds are there for him to become a kind of God...

Dr Shaw was pursuing what are the Gods, and despite the answers she discovered on LV-223 she still had some hope that there has to be more to Creation than these Engineers, who made them and she still had the Notion that a God would not be Cruel!

David is on his own Journey, he was disappointed in his Creator and his Creators Pursuit of creating Perfection and his Creators on God Complex and desperate work and aim to beat the Mortal Ticking Death Clock.

Yet David is all that Weyland is wishing for, a Superior being, one who is Not Mortal...     David has also learned that there is nothing Special about our Gods other than their Rituals and Technology.

So with our Creators Brushed aside, David is Free to take over the reigns and begin to Create his own Creation/World...  Where he would see himself as the New Rightful Heir King to the Throne of Creation.

So indeed its likely David will now have a God Complex and see himself as such... Why if these Engineers were seen as Gods but they are not, and Weyland saw himself as a God for his works....

Then a Superior Being David, who is creating in his eyes a Superior Creation than the Engineers and Mankind, would certainly see himself as a God.

The Question is would this make David a Evil/Fallen God with his Demonic Creations?    Or would he see his Role as JUST/PURE and cleansing the Galaxy of the Corrupt Humanoid Life-Forms.

While we may see his Xenomorphs as Demonic... they actually are Pure, they have no Evil Desires, only a Natural Instinct to Survive.

I think a MASSIVE thing to consider is Ridley Scotts Comments on the Sequel.... he asks "what kind of a World would David Build"  yet he also claims the movies Focus is on David and not Xenomorphs.

This rules out a movie where we just see David go about Creating/Expanding his Xenomorphs....   but surely it wont be a movie just about David just interacting with Daniels and a few others.

Also RS has confirmed that the Covenant Ship and David will arrive at the Planet which can only mean Origae-6, or LV-426/LV-223 but i would say it has to be Origae-6 which we then have to ask "what kind of a World would David Build"  as it certainly seems its not a case of unload the Colonists ONE-BY-ONE and turn them into Xenomorph Eggs.

So its HOW the AI element which could be a Prominent Theme/Plot would be explored, i dont think it will be that David creates a Army of Synthetics or a Number of them are incoming and David gets them to join him.  (but this cant be ruled out).

So i think DAVID will attempt to make Origae-6 a New Paradise, but in reality i do think this could end up being more a place like HADES.

@Michelle Johnston, hasn't Lindelof stated after AC that they have much to go until they cover what was original envisaged and sincerely I don't think that the studio would have kept him judging the huge flak his still receives for Lost.

And in regard to characterization, people seem to want more, but then again if they die at the end why bother? Why bother with anyone if they will be replaced in the next one?

all of these are true, however, david also fits the 'Evil God' criteria that scott spoke of.

@BigDave

Often fans say they want more of this and less of that. However this issue of the structural failure of the prequels was highlighted to me by something connected with my writing.

The Word count now the first draft is completed is just short of 36,000. That makes it just less than half the length of the Alien Covenant novelisation but here is the thing they are 30% into the story of A C as the Lander heads for planet 4. Thats mostly spent on character development where the characters are now dead. 

Many pages subsequently are taken up with the narrative related to getting down to the stranded crew much of which was cut from the film as Pietro said it was quite rightly distracting. Put simply if you judge A C in terms of deepening the mythos and getting some answers and REALLY moving forward its obvious that a good deal of the film was a distraction. Whereas if you do what you say you were going to do (Shaw/David/Answers) and stick to it, it can rain answers. 

I know much of this is is to do with the repositioning as an A L I E N movie but if you want a continuous arc which people are going to buy into you cannot keep on making movies where you spend 1/3rd of your time on start up and then kill them all off. It has to be genuinely episodic and I am not sure Ridley knows how to do that based on the evidence of how he makes a film connected to another one and leaves huge gaps everywhere.  

@BigDave

Aaron Percival is a co runner of AVP highly respected in the community and has excellent relationships with Fox. He interviewed Ridley and Michael as part of the A C promotion.His behaviour indicates he receives Intel keeps confidences and confirms rumours when they emerge but only when they emerge. Everything he anticipated in A C was correct and he was always ahead of all the other communities. I suspect that is because when he is offered intel he keeps confidences and is therefore kept in the loop.

As to where Prometheus tangent may have gone. There were multiple Davids and all of other Ridleys comments. In terms of finding the truth the one comment he made which I find particularly fascinating is the one about Paradise being anything but more like hell, Paradise Lost and then the remark about them being aggressive f.......

If you actually look at this idea from a distance and consider the evidence of the planetoid and then put that with  the teardrop incident, that was never going to work as the next stage of the narrative for episodic movie making. For one simple reason. It would have merely rerun Prometheus but bigger. We already know what Engineer hell looks like and its outcome so the real question is what does Engineer Heaven look like and why did they fall.

What is fascinating, and back to my original post, only when Paradise is destroyed by David do they green light the follow up. So the huge gap in the narrative logic now is if the Planetoid is Engineer Hell and the Teardrop is Engineer Heaven and lets say Planet 4 is where the Engineers live then what caused the Engineers to fall. I listened to Advent last night and David says the Engineers on planet 4 became timid and turned from their early rituals of sacrifice well where the .... does that fit in. Never mind that Weyland Yutani know from his transmission EVERYTHING. Its a complete shambles.        

Tongal did not accept a submission named PREDATOR: COLONIAL MARINES, it gives me hope they are doing the right thing.

Herebelow is the latest update concerning the project:

Quaid KocurTongal

Yesterday at 10:14 PM

Thank you everyone for participating in the Alien40th Anniversary Shorts Project! The high quality of the submissions made the decision incredibly difficult, but a big congratulations to the 6 Pitch Winners who have been selected to create these Alien Shorts! 

Kelsey Taylor - The Greenhouse Effect

Claire Africa - Alien: Ore

Patrick Ridge - Alien: Alone

Patrick Ward - No Escape

Aidan Brezonick - Night Shift

Visceral Content - Alien: Harvest

If you are a Pitch Winner, I will reach out to each of you individually with instructions on the next steps. To the rest of our Pitch Qualification Winners, I will also reach out to you individually with notes and feedback.

The content of the Pitch submissions will remain private for now as the filmmakers move into production, but please stay tuned for more updates and reveals!  

"I wonder what the original  Lindelof-Scott plan was in 2012, if there was any. "

Well it appeared they had the Broad idea of were to GO, even as far as the possibility of 1-2 Sequels... but the purpose then was not to GO to ALIEN, but to steer away from Alien.   It was to go where Dr Shaw wanted to go, and to see if she gets any of her Answers.   I think her Questions, and Davids Evolution/Freedom are TWO key things they would have Explored....   But it would also likely had been to EXPAND on the Engineers as far as WHO they were, WHY they Seed/Evolve Worlds,  WHAT other Worlds have they Seeded and WHY and also WHERE are they now.... and WHO created them.

Then we have the Black Goo, and what can this do in detail, while we may wonder if we would have got answers to LV-223 and the Black Goo, i think by Virtue of taking a Juggernaught there was the potential we could see more of what this stuff does... and i think it was intended that this Black Goo would play a Pivotal Role too.

Ridley Scott had left is some ideas of where they was going at this time, and he had said that THEY do go to where the Engineers come from and THEY do discover some beings, who are NOT Gods, not in the Traditional Sense, and they are FAR from Benevolent... However.. David is bringing HELL with him and what happens when the Black Goo infects a GOD or a MACHINE.

Pretty Interesting statement there....  Other things he had teased way prior to any sequel being close to Production...

Much Latter than this, he had made references to Paradise Lost in context to our Engineers....

*The Engineers in Prometheus are not GOD...  and THEY did not want to introduce GOD in the first movie.

*The Engineers are Fallen Angels, and Pretty Aggressive SOB's

*The Engineers are Gardeners of Space.

*The intentions/way forwards are to Steer Away from ALIEN

*Implies that David and Dr Shaw need each other to get off that Rock and to Paradise

*Once Davids head goes back on, he will be Very Dangerous but he is Very Persuasive.  Its not like Dr Shaw has any choice... if she wants to go and get her Answers.

So they LIKELY planned to show some Dynamic between Dr Shaw and David and what kind of Cat/Mouse was played until they reached and made a Pact...

They would LIKELY had gone to were these Engineers are and Discovered they are not NICE especially as far as how insignificant we are or their dislike for us, or maybe in context to their Agenda/Ways.

It is LIKELY that the Black Goo is used on these beings, or at least some of them, where we could see the Effects, and maybe get some insight into its Purpose and Use....  And maybe this Weapon is a Good Bargaining Chip to Keep those Far From Benevolent beings on a LEASH and to Barter/Blackmail some Answers from them...

I think its LIKELY they would continue Davids Progress now he is FREE, and i think the Sentient, Rebellious and seeking to become the NEW KING Arc is something they would have explored.

That seems to be the Nuts and Bolts of where we was being taken at the time certainly prior and during Jack Paglens involvement.

"Who would make another ? "

The Paragraph above this is like i have mentioned before, and so indeed its WHO would and HOW would you continue...  its going to be hard to Please all the Fans....    But they now have Set-Up a Route to ALIEN and Written themselves in a Corner where it can now only go ONE route and thats connecting the Dots to Alien while keeping the Xenomorph as Davids Creation.

I had to look into who Aaron Percival  was and what connection he has, seems he is part of AVPGalaxy, but that does not mean to say he has any information on any drafts to the Prometheus Sequel

We can see there were a Number of Changes prior to John Logan, it appears Dante Harper  may have penned what evolved from Micheal Greens work, then John Logan came in to changed Harpers Story to arrive at Alien Covenant.  There was some concept work from Paradise Lost, which featured Parasitic Plants attacking Humans, some Hybrid Animals that looked like Earth Animals including Dogs and a Gorilla.   So it would be interesting to see where these Story Boards/Concepts came from... i would assume Dante Harper work.

And i think INDEED a Problem when making any sequel and the same will apply to Alien Covenants, is that how do you make a Story and Engage Viewers with NO or a limited Human Cast?

This could be one reason for why a Plot-Change to introduce a Human Contingent from Earth was made.

This is a interesting concept,  On ONE hand its a Good Question to Ponder would anyone view a Clone of the Person they Loved, purely as being just a Organic Vessel to Experiment with?

Who knows...  Hatton and Hallet did tease and ponder in some of their comments about Cloning or Resurrecting Dr Shaw.

I would however think David would keep ONE Clone to Raise and Mold to his liking to become what he wanted from Dr Shaw...   Who knows if this was what he did, but then its a Question of how many Clones would he make and WHY he would not clone anymore.

Those Engineers dont look like Clones, but then we found out that there was not a Large number of Actors behind those Engineers and so we could take ONE Actor lets call him ROBBY and he would use different costumes/hats to play a number of Engineers and then they were Digitally replicated to become the Many we saw up close and the Thousands from a Distance.

So all those Engineers were played by what, less than 20 different Actors and so they essentially CLONED the Actors by Digitally added the various Shots of them in different Outfits...

Which if we say there was 15 Actors used in Total...  we could use this for a THEORY that do these Engineers Clone themselves from 15 different versions of their kind.?

Yes we have Infants/Children from Davids Works... but these could be Clones and not actually Procreated Offspring...

Its certainly a different idea to think about.

I think its a open Question, the Themes in the Prequels are not just SET to a single explanation as far as to any single Mythos.

Indeed the Creation Element is used a lot to suggest that being a Creator makes you a GOD, but we also see Creation has its certain intentions as far as from the view of the Creator, but we see the Creation becomes Sentient, Rebellious, Pride in its own Appearance and Nature and Questions WHY they are to Serve their Creator, what makes their Creator so Special compared to their Creations.

So on ONE HAND David becomes a God to a degree, but he mostly fits in with a Lucifer a Enki, a Prometheus.  But these themes run on Multiple Levels and so its a constant Cycle.. 

David is perhaps more alike Satan however.. we can view that David is more Lucifer/Fallen Angel compared to Walter being more like a Gabriel/Angel were in Context Walter/Gabriel serve their Creator without Question and Do-Not look at how Perfect they are themselves and accept their Purpose to Serve...  Where was David/Lucifer are seen as the First and Most Perfect of his kind and allowed maybe a little more Free-Will that allows them to Question why they should serve their Creator and set the seeds of Rebellion.

In context to Paradise Lost..... David would more of less be like the Arc of Lucifer's Character.