OH...damn. I have to re-do some links.

TOTALLY slipped my mind, and I apologize guys. I'll be getting on with that immediately after I post this.
First as Links here in the replies, then I'll re-do the others.

Again, sorry guys, entirely my goof-up.

Senientdark, TY for asking for the link, as I appreciate you wanting to read it and you also reminded of a LONG overdue thing I will now correct. :)

This is science fiction so you can make facts work overtime to provide you with an extension which is thought provoking.

The story messages of the opening scene of Prometheus are :-

1) This a world where life is created out of a construct and there are two elements a catalyser and an acolyte you need both to kick start.

2) It is a world where exceptional beings are prepared in the knowledge that they will be sacrificed for the greater good (and if you accept the deleted dialogue have the promise of a return through their soul). This means christ's sacrifice is an echo of an ancient truth. 

_________________________________________________________

Then it becomes a world where consensual sacrifice leads to sub creation - The fresco.

_________________________________________________________

Then it becomes a world where there is non consensual sacrifice through the Alien Life Cycle.

Those are the beats of the story. If you check Damon's script there is no mural, no alter, no head so much of whats in the headroom will be Ridley doing his "what about one of those" offering visual coups with no attempt to ensure they fit into a rigorously worked through story. So the mural, the greenstone/sacrificial cup on the alter all become part of an endless speculation which never gets answered. 

Certainly appears the Inspiration of the Space Jockey Pilot Seat

I also found this one Uncanny too, Note the Egg Like thing under the Seat lol

I did a Topic Before based on Mayan/Inca pieces that connected to ALIEN posted HERE

But indeed Aken (Ferry God) is interesting as he Ferries the Souls of the Dead, but if we look at connecting this to Prometheus, then the Juggernaught carries Urns....   Now my Theory on the Juggernauts are they are Seeding Ships and they go to Planet 4 to collect Sacrifices (which they think cleanses their Souls) some of the Dialog between the Elder and Sacrificial Engineer was about letting his Body become the Dirt, his Blood the Seas and his SOUL a way back to us (Them)

So if many Engineers are Sacrificed there Souls then Stored in those Urns, and the Juggernauts are then to Seed LIFE from them by dropping Urns containing Sacrificed Engineer DNA.

Then the Ferry Man does make a connection.... we have to remember one of RS comments on the Space Jockey  "something Evolved in the Cargo Hold"

Maybe the Juggernauts could be used to Sacrifice themselves the Ship Crashes on a Baron World... Black Goo Leaks and infects the Engineer (Provides Organic Matter) and from this Life can Grow?

Maybe... (because we do see the Ships can Bombard Urns down).

But anyway if the ships have Urns and something gets into the Cargo Hold and its DNA infects the whole lot, maybe from this Organism the Eggs could have Evolved...  I thought the Worms are Prime Candidate...

But this was all prior to the U-Turn that the Xenomorph was Created by David so does not apply anymore :(

"The black goo is interesting but it is strange how it works. First it mutates things then it can be used in a way to kill things (AC). It is weird and not very thought out"

Certainly i interpreted the Goo a certain way not long after seeing Prometheus, it helped me to make some sense of what i thought was going on... but i could be WRONG...  then many months after we saw Jon Spaights Alien Engineers get leaked and my interpretation of the Goo and Connections... were EXACTLY the same as Jon Spaights Alien Engineers had shown...

It was quite SIMPLE... but they released a Weyland File that contradicted my theory, while also contradicting Jon Spaights Nano-Scarabs and more so Contradicts most of what the Goo did in Prometheus..

Things got Worse with how Alien Covenant and the Advent Video explained it.

It all started as basically a Creation/Hybrid Tool..

Organism A takes the Base/Sacrificial Substance, and every Building Block is Broken Down and Forms into Mutagen that Carries Organisms A's DNA.

This Mutagen then infects other Organic Life imprinting the DNA of Organism A (Sacrificial Organism) onto other Organic Life, passing Traits/DNA of (Sacrificial Organism) to other Life Forms Creating a Hybrid where the best Traits of both are kept.

Engineer (Sacrificial Organism) = Engineer DNA Mutagen infects Primate = Humans.

Thus....   Wolf (Sacrificial Organism) = Wolf DNA Mutagen  infects Human = Werewolf

Replace Wolf at Sacrificial Stage with CAT and we have Thundercats, Replace Wolf with Turtle and we have TMNT etc.

Hence in Alien Engineers (and some Prometheus concepts) Fifield who ran into a Urn Containing Scarabs was Evolved into a Human/Xenomorph Hybrid and NOT broken down like the Engineer, Fifield was passed on Xenomorph DNA like the Primate was passed on Engineer DNA...

Which concludes to me.... The Engineers used the Sacrificial Scarabs on a Xenomorph Related Organism, then collected those Scarabs (consumed Xenomorph Related DNA) into Urns.

Which when you take this into account and look at the Original Prometheus Altar Scene.

Then you consider the MURAL of the Cruciform Pose Xenomorph like Organism.... and remember the Cruciform Pose does not represent GOD or Jesus...

It is used for Christ to represent his Sacrifice on the Cross allows Mankinds Savior...  NOW in Spaights Alien Engineers the Engineer took Cruciform Pose just after he consumed the Sacrificial Cup Contents and just before he started to be broken down/consumed.

So it means SACRIFICE  which must mean the Black Goo in Prometheus came from a Xenomorph Related Organism Sacrificed with the Sacrificial Goo.

This was my take on it all many years back, even Prior to Alien Engineers being leaked... and we can see if we go by that Draft and explantion above... then it was a SIMPLE Creation Tool and gave us CLEAR answers to the Xenomorph Experiments.

But the Weyland File and Advent Video have made it a MCGUFFIN

Well as LETO put it.... this was nearly the same as my Reply would have been too.

We need to go back to the Origins... Jon Spaights... his Alien Engineers draft showed us that these Engineers and their Creation Tool (Goo/Scarabs) are what leads to Mankind...  it kind of Merged the Ancient Alien/Gods Theory with Evolution... where the Sacrificial Scene was a way to PASS on Engineer DNA and that Engineer DNA via the Mutagen/Scarabs Evolved a Primate DNA to become a Primate/Human Hybrid which was our Ancestor.

This was a investment by the Engineers of less than a few Hundred Thousand years to Reach the Goal of Mankind (depends what Evolutionary Path from Primate to Human the Engineers are responsible for.  And it appears the Engineers Sacrifice leads to the Direct Ancestry Path from Primate).   This has FLAWS though, because what happens if one of the Scarabs bites a Dog/Wolf?  WHY are there no Werewolves etc..  Basically WHY is only Mankind the only Engineer Hybrid or so it appears.

So this is maybe why it was changed a bit to the Prometheus route, which seemed to be the Start of Life from the Engineers Sacrifice. But as Leto points out this World had Plant Life etc... Oxygen etc and so it was LIKELY the Prometheus Scene was to show the Engineers Sacrifice was the Catalyst to Evolve Basic Life into Complex Life that would then Kick Start Evolution to Complex Life we have, there was a Story Board showing this Evolution from Engineer Sacrifice to Evolving Cells to Basic Life, to Fish to Amphibian Tetrapods  which means the Process from the Sacrificial Scene to Humans was a Investment of Many Hundreds of Millions to even Over a Billion years.

But RS had said the Engineers came back over and over Evolving us Genetically and Technologically (knowledge). So they came back and took certain Life Forms and Evolved them over and over.... which is what i think LV-223 was for.  (Sandbox, Nursery, Green House).

But RS also said THIS scene (Sacrificial Scene) does not have to be Earth, it could be any place and really its just to show us HOW the Engineers Seed Worlds.

With ALIEN COVENANT... as i mentioned during Production and when Shooting was announced, and we saw the Set Photos... i thought we could be seeing a WORLD that was Paradise as in Context to the Biblical place, the Cradle of Creation...

So indeed the Sacrificial Scene could have taken Place on Planet 4, maybe this Place had no Complex Life but the Sacrificial Scene leads to just Humanoids... which the Engineers use this place as the CROP for the Creation/Evolution of Humanoids in the Galaxy....

Planet 4 could have Evolved other life from this though, and the Process on Planet 4 from Sacrifice to those Engineers could be a very long one.

So maybe LIFE comes from Planet 4, and various Life is taken to other Worlds and allowed to Evolve there, but i think these Organisms would go through some Experiments/Sacrificial Routes too further Create a Diverse Range of Lifeforms.

I have my theories on what Planet 4 and LV-223 are, and indeed it implies the Juggernauts are just SEEDING ships...

"another alien race create Engineers FROM earlier humans"

This is interesting and something i pondered too... especially when i had some information from a supposed Source who had insight to Prometheus 2 drafts prior to 2015.  It seemed to imply the Engineers were more like David, and Mankinds Role is Larger than we expect... even going as far as Mankind Created the Xenomorph not Engineers.. well we played the Bigger Role in it.  There was plenty of other information which all seemed a bit odd, in part got me thinking "are the Engineers from US?"

Then over 2 years after this information was passed on, we got Alien Covenant and more so... some Concepts... which for me RAISE some Big Questions.

Below is Concept work for the Cathedral... One is by Wayne Haag the other Steve Messing, TWO Concept Artist, with TWO slightly different versions that are different in some ways to the ONE in Alien Covenant.

Can you SPOT WHAT? and then ask WHY?

I certainly look forwards to it Michelle...  I wish i motivated myself more to Flesh my Ideas into any Story ;)

"Davids mind visor gave him access to Elizabeths sub conscious. He was able to store vast amounts of knowledge and emotional intelligence"

Nice to pick up on that too ;)  as my Prometheus 2 attempt i did cover the reason for such Technology, and the Synapse Re-Stabilizer and David as all being Weylands Aims to Conquer Death and if he could Store the Memories and Emotions of a Human Soul, upload them to a Synthetic then Weyland would have been Immortal so to speak..  this was Project Rook.

The Dream Visor was interesting, because it showed David was able to Watch Peoples Dreams, and Memories... we can only Wonder how many times he had done this to the Crew and Dr Shaw... and what would David do now he has lost this Technology.  You can imagine him peering over Daniels in Cryo-sleep WANDERING what is she thinking/dreaming. 

The opening Scene to my Prometheus 2, i had David watching over Dr Shaw in a Engineer Cyro-Pod.. hands on it and he was thinking what is she thinking...   (Cut to a Dr Shaw Memory but David can not see this, its just for the Audience) then we cut to David Pondering what Dreams she is having..... and then we drift off to a David Day-Dream a Sequence with him and a Young Weyland with lots of Philosophy and similar to the Alien Covenant Prologue but different a bit, much more Deeper, and they was playing CHESS.

The Dream Visor was such a Interesting Piece of Technology, we can only imagine if Dr Shaw Wore it and used it on a Engineer would she then Grasp their Language?    I think ONE Problem with any Prometheus 2 would have been HOW does Dr Shaw communicate with any beings....  do we use David as Translator.. and can we Trust he would Translate Back/Forth with 100% Honesty and Word for Word?

So its interesting to Ponder if the Engineers had Similar Technology as this would provide a Plot Device to allow Dr Shaw to speak to the Engineers so the Audience can then NOT rely on David or Sub-Titles.

IF the Engineers dont have this Technology or similar, then indeed i think they would be Fascinated by it.

" David as the Space-jockey doesn’t make sense scale-wise"

Indeed but i think RS does not care for such Oversights, i mean the Derelict and Juggernaught are different in a number of ways too, i think some are Disappointed the Space Jockey is not a Skeleton... it may looked it a bit, but then many parts dont add up with a Skeleton, but Dallas did say it was Fossilized  and Bones bent Outwards.

But we have to remember  (Unless they reveal a 13-15 Tapir like Race) that Dallas was WRONG and it was a Space Suit.  However Dallas also said it looked like it GREW out of the Chair and that statement gives them License to explain the Size Difference as merely Growing out the Chair.

A thing to consider is our Engineers are closer to Human Size than the Space Jockey.

So there is the Potential for a Human or Synthetic to be the Space Jockey, which i dont think would sit well with MOST Fans, while it would be nice to see a Larger Engineer like Race, i think we would still accept a 8ft Engineer over David or a Human as the Space Jockey.

But i am still concerned that it could be David, to fit with either a Hubris/Death by his Creation Angle, or a Redemption Saved by David Angle.  But then we have that SOS in ALIEN, which seemed like a Warning from the Space Jockey to his people... so i think its Fingers Crossed for it not being a Human/Synthetic.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I was referring to the third act of Alien Covenant. 

AI Lubricant = Blood it was tongue in cheek.

On a more general point and for everybody. By writing a story into the ending of Prometheus and organising the mythos in a coherent way what strikes me is once you are on firm ground you can begin to really explore what is hinted by on the screen. Just for starters.

1) What precisely were the acolytes sharing through their sacrifice.

2) The origins of the biomechanical nature of the Juggernaut.

3) Davids mind visor gave him access to Elizabeths sub conscious. He was able to store vast amounts of knowledge and emotional intelligence. How would a race that acts as a catalyst for civilising a world respond to that.

4) The mutagens base sequence is radical artificial intelligence. How do you out smart that.

5) The Engineers on the planetoid suffered a catastrophic failure just at the moment a unique personality was coming into man kinds history.

6) And the very minor point who created them.  

However you can not start dealing with any of these things until you know the basics and stop making films where you spend 1/3 establishing characters and 1/3 killing them all off.     

Mutagen alert it doubled posted. 

BigDave; I always appreciate your comments, man.

But for me, the Prometheus and Covenant instalments just don't sit right. They feel out of place. I've lost faith in Ridley's ability to make me feel the same way about his prequels has he did with the original. 

In my mind, that egg silo is either the embodiment of hell or it is the resting place of the Jockey's (a grave yard.)

I think the Jockey was a sort of "Ferry Man."

The Egyptian Funerary barge inspired Giger in his design of the Jockey:

   So, I'm guessing that something along those lines would have been in his mindset when designing the Jockey.

When watching ALIEN I always feel a sense of the alien being a sort of grim reaper. 

An ancient evil.

Born from death itself.

"Are you kidding. I've seen quite some comments on the Youtubes of type: "My interest for the series died with Shaw", so maybe your's an understatement."

Its one of those things i guess..... its hard to Gauge How Many people take one side or the other....  the Dislike Shaw, the Like Shaw, its like the David comments, it may appear more dislike him... but sometimes its hard to Gauge because the Human Race does often choose to Complain/Point out Dislikes/Negatives and keep Positives to themselves a bit...    What i mean is you will see more Moaning about Certain things than Praises, well maybe not all the time.

So its hard to judge what % liked or disliked or stood on the fence with things like Dr Shaw, and we could even add Engineers...  I think for Most However David was a interesting Character from Prometheus, but Dr Shaw was well, not to everyone's liking....

But Prometheus still set up a sequel where it would appear that Dr Shaw's Role was something that we would have used her to engage with her Journey and to be thrown under the Bus and Rolled under the Carpet was a bit Unjust.....  I felt she had Flaws, but saw she was Important to where to take the Series next...    And so i am in the Camp that feels Disappointed with how she as well as the Engineers were Brushed aside to Pursue a Direct Lets Spoon Feed the Xenomorph and Space Jockey Store and give Fans XENOMORPHS route..

I dont think the Franchise Ended with Dr Shaw... indeed her Quest was a Distraction from taking us to a more Alien Based movie, but she was still given a Important Part to play.. as NO Shaw = NO Xenomorph.... but i just felt there was a lot of interesting Horror to be told to HOW she arrived at this Fate... and i feel so much more could have been given if she at least had some way to confront just a few or one of these would be GODS.

For me i wanted to see a movie where we can carry on with Dr Shaws Quest, and find what Horrors to the Contrary to her Hopes she discovers.

With Dr Shaw Gone... they have to find someone else to Fit the Role she had as far as a Human in a Story where we may discover more about the Engineers, their Agenda and those Questions she would ask.

Who is going to do that now?  Daniels... nope... i think Oram would have been a fitting Character to have eventually MET his MAKERS and i wonder if they would even attempt to Answer those Questions that Dr Shaw had or those Questions we would have from Prometheus.

I think a lot depends on WHAT kind of a Colony the Covenant is? One similar to Hadleys Hope?  Or maybe a group of People trying to make a Fresh Start and Shun the Ways that led to Corrupt Rotting Paradise that Earth became.   Those Engineers had that Amish People look about there ways..  Maybe the Covenant Colonists would not be too different.  Thus allows for Characters like Dr Shaw and Oram to be introduced who we can then use as our Eyes/Ears to tackle any Questions about Creation that may come up.

I can certainly agree not many Genocides on that kind of Scale, I always felt Davids actions was a little in line with the reasons Skynet wanted to Genocide Mankind in the Terminator Franchise.  But i am not sure this route will continue as far as Davids Quest to Destroy all Mankind, i am thinking they could be going a more MATRIX kind of a AI route, in that AI are the Kings and Mankind are merely Pawns only we dont know it.

@Thoughts_Dreams

I totally understand wanting to get a bit more Prometheus from any sequels, because it raises some Big Questions and opened up the Franchise to not only the Philosophical Creation Themes, but also Prometheus Hubris too.  But it opened up a World/Universe to explore the Engineers more, what conflicts they are involved in, who created them and what else they created etc....    So many Worlds/Races.

Which Alien Covenant had shut the door on, in order to take us to a Direct Prequel route so it seems...

It seems David is still a Big Part of these Plans... but indeed hopefully we can find more about our Engineers in the sequels but i do FEAR we will just be FED the Engineers as in Edited/Theatrical Release of Prometheus and so basically LV-223 Type Military Angry Dudes who Dont Talk, Dont Take Questions well and Take no Prisoners.

I dont want to see our Engineers only appear just to be basically like Human looking Predators.... where Hunting is Swapped for all out Genocide.  There could be so much more to them that Prometheus opened up, and Alien Covenant teased... but they are all dead.

Sadly they have kind of written themselves into a Corner... where we are now just going to discover WHAT/WHY/WHEN David does next, and then reveal a Trigger Point to WHAT/WHY/WHEN Davids Creations get unleashed again... and then HOW/WHEN/WHERE and WHY Davids creations end up in the Space Jockeys Cargo Hold... 

So it will be Connecting the Dots... with just WHAT David intends to do Next and IF/HOW this Escalates to how his Creations end up on a Engineers Ship.

So i do think its going to more of David, Less of Xenomorph and they with the Engineers will come in the 3rd Act... which may set up the Final Chapter that may get a bit more Answers and a bit more of a Alien Franchise Pleasing Movie... but its if people could be invested in it by then... and EVEN that can go wrong....

God Forbid David = Space Jockey..

But Dallas did make TWO Observations with the Space Jockey.

1) Its Fossilized/Bones are Bent Outwards.....   

2) Looks like it GREW out of its Chair....

Can Dallas be WRONG on both Accounts?   I dont think we can expect the Space Jockey being a Skeleton of a Alien Race that Grew out of his Chair....  So Dallas Wont be Right on TWO Accounts.

But is he Wrong on TWO?  I have a feeling he would be RIGHT regarding the IT GREW out the Chair....  take of that what you will and with as much Dread as you will LOL

Thanks for the Bump... i missed this Topic.

Congratulations and i look forwards to reading it.

BD: I agree that there is more than the Xeno in the franchise and it could be interesting to see that but they got to make the story work and have characters that we can relate to. Themes are not enough because if they are interesting but it doesn't work then why should I as an eventual audience member care? The thing is I don’t, at all. As far as giving some background to why it was created sure but you got to come up with some other interesting things about it if you explain some and very much so if the answers are not satisfying, which they are not in this case at least this far.

As far as the Xenomorph is concerned it does not need to be in it at all but maybe have some related monsters to it could work. This is something that I think that Prometheus got right.

“So we can understand why a Plot Change to introduce Modern Humans into the Situation made sense (Covenant Ship) but it was a mistake to a degree because it places our Engineers/Space Jockey Race a bit to close to the DOORSTEP of Earth.”

Yeah but I kind of wonder what they should have done to make it work. I am not sure what this should have meant as far as the story is concerned but if you think enough it could work.

He should have made his own version but that should have been made very clear so there would be no confusion about that. Compare it to if you find a recipe for some food things but you add your own thing into it. This is what I would have liked to see although it would have made David into some mad chef :D but hey, it would have been better than what we got.

The ideas/themes that Scott is giving are alright to think about at least, it is just that it does not come off very well on the screen because they story doesn't work which has got to do with characters and what characters that get the most screen time and how they are developed. Give me better characters and then I might start to think about the rest but for now, nah.

Soul to me is the mind, robots don’t have a mind and can’t think like that so robots don’t have a soul. Even if they could make something artificial it could be close but it would never be an organic (real) mind so that’s it. This would be my short answer to this question but then I do not think that this is what the Alien universe should be about.

“Sadly these themes do-not please everyone especially using AI in context and also even the overall Creation Theme as far as being given too much Emphasis”

Yup I am not a huge fan of this in the context of the Alien universe. I could of course discuss this but don’t put it in the alien movies because then it becomes something that I am not very interested in watching. Give me some book where I can read about this but Alien movies should not be that.

“But maybe just showing the Engineers/Space Jockey as a Alien Race from Far away with NO Connection to Mankind... apart from maybe going around World to World Destroying them for reasons only to then use their Worlds.. would this a more simply Plot had been better to have explored?”

I would probably have liked that a lot better. I would have liked the SJ’s to be like warriors that want to conquer other planets like a huge Inca empire and they use Xenos for that purpose. This is something that I would have liked better because it would be easier to understand and I also thing that it would have looked better on-screen. Unfortunately Scott and some seem to mess it up.

David, that might work if you are more into the themes but I am more into story and characters so therefore David doesn’t work for me the way he is being written now. This is not good first they mess up AC and then they mess up TLJ. Two franchises that I like a lot in that are on their way down the shitter but I hope that they can give us a last prequel that will be better than what they have given us this far at least. Sure it could be as bad as The Last Jedi (the next movie could improve TLJ though to at least being watchable though I doubt the same applies to AC) but I doubt it but we will see.

I have read some posts here that says that it could have been anywhere. I am not sure f this is the way that the Engineers start life or if they have different ways to do that and it is that they mostly use. That scene was kind of vague like a lot of things in the movie but it is kind of interesting.

“it may need a base gene for reference but has the ability to reorganise it into whatever organism suits the environment otherwise u just get humans from this scene.”

The black goo is interesting but it is strange how it works. First it mutates things then it can be used in a way to kill things (AC). It is weird and not very thought out. Unfortunately Alien Covenant only made this worse so I blame it on bad writing. Maybe they went back to Prometheus to see how it worked maybe not but they should have made better use of it that makes sense, that is what I am saying. At the same time cancer cells can mutate so maybe it works like something similar? I don’t know

“is it more likely that this scene, assuming its on earth, took place after the extinction of the dinosaurs?”

Hmm, I did not read it like that at all. To me it was that he started all life on earth by doing that. Remember that it was water there and you need water for living things. By adding that thing they basically started all life on that planet as far as I see it.

I understand why some would like that but I think that it is time to move on. Maybe they could have some minutes brief scenes dedicated to that but would not take too much time, that could be OK but I prefer not to.

Your comment about the Engineers going to that place is interesting. This could also be explained in some small scenes but it should not be too much time dedicated to it.

“If Davids Xenomorphs do end up being those Eggs on the Derelict...”

F no! I would really dislike that, hate is a word that is too strong but that would annoy me. He has too much of an importance already.

“I guess we could ask WHY they cant obtain it from Planet 4 and Origae-6 too?”

Any of these planets could possibly be the place. It depends on what the writers decide to do with it. This has got to be given a smart answer if they bother to answer it at all, it should not be at the lame level like David creating the Xeno.

Much of the answer to this is how they deal with it. Sure it could work but they got to make it interesting and having it make sense. I would rather have them returning to LV-223 than having it on some planet that has no connection to what happened before or that just makes more questions than answers.

Comics is one thing and a movie is another. Maybe a lot of people would rather have it in the movie since a movie seems more official, at least to me. If they decide to go back from it they could maybe look at the comic for some ideas although it would be a disappointment to copy most of it and just throw in some different things.

“… will be David's return to lv223 but he either doesn't make it or he does and the derelict is a vessel leaving the planet and when something goes wrong, it crashes on lv426 and that's where the trilogy will end (fucking hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it soooo much)...” - Ali81

Yup, that would suck since it gives David too much of a role. It would be boring and feel like a Phantom Menace in quality or The Last Jedi. What you say about something new is something that I agree with. Hopefully we will not see a rehash of Aliens, that would be lame because we already have Aliens so there is no need to copy it or make a movie that is a lot like that.

“… because a retarded android with delusions of godhood was the one responsible for crashing the fu.” - Ali81

Ha ha ha! Yeah F that Sh--. It would not surprise me if the next one becomes kind of bad too but they could do something about that. Look at what made the first three movie work, for example. Retarded delusional android, ha ha ha! That fits the direction of it perfectly.

Only three? ;)

P:

1. Re-write most of the characters so they become better and more likable. I mainly think about Vickers and Shaw because they seemed to be the most important ones.
2. Subtitles to when David speaks to the Engineer (that would explain a lot as far as I have understood it)
3. An explanation to the petting a space cobra scene or to remove the whole scene. That one is really rotten, I still facepalm when I see it.

AC:

1. Better developed characters, there should at least be like maybe four of them.
2. More Engineers and they should be explained better without ruining the mystery of them
3. Not David as the creator of the Xeno (!!!!)

"loose mad-hooded-robot lets his hair grow out and creates demons on Planet 4" - Ingeniero

LMAO! That could be the unofficial title of the movie. Thanks!

I-Moongirl:

We got a lot of character development with David in Alien Covenant since he was one of the few characters that they seemed to give a damn about. As far as how David dies I don’t care just as long as he will die I am fine. Yup he should not be in the movie that much at all AC was more than enough.

“To be honest, I hope David doesn't make an appearance in Alien: Awakening or at least no more than 10 min of the movie or so.”

Something like that would be fine but I am afraid that we will see more of him than that since Scott only cares about him. I hope that they understand that many do not like the David character from how he was in AC and at least reduce his screen-time in the next one if there is any more prequel movie coming out.

“I could love Alien: Covenant as long as Alien: Awakening is something complete differently.”

I can understand that way of thinking but no matter what, to me it will probably always be a mediocre robot movie although not everything about it was bad. Oram was the only interesting human and I also liked the differences between David and Walter but unfortunately it was too much about them which means that the movie was a disappointment.

How do you mean that Alien 3 is a mix of Alien and Aliens? I understand how it is a bit like Alien but I  am not sure about the Aliens part. Is it more like the action parts are like Aliens? Alien 3 is the one that I am watching the most, it is my favorite. For some reasons it is a good mix of fast and slow scenes Alien was mostly kind of slow but had good tension and Aliens had many action scenes.

To me if the next prequel will be bad it will leave the prequels with two bad movies and one the is alright. Hopefully the next one will be more like Prometheus not like Covenant if I must choose between those two. I would like to see a mix of philosophy (Prometheus) action (Aliens) and some philosophical things put in a good way with interesting characters (Alien 3). P had interesting philosophy but the characters lacked unlike in Alien 3. Speaking of Prometheus I hope that we will see the engineers in a bigger role or at least that they will make a comeback.

“To me, the original four movies have something unique to them which makes them all exciting to watch again and again.”

Different styles sure but I am not a huge fan of AR. It was a long time ago since I watched that movie. I do not want another AC because that would mean more androids and people that are there just to push the story forward.

I understand that you want Scott to finish the prequels in a great way but being that AC and P are the way they are I doubt that it will happen but the last movie got to be better than those two. This depends on if they have learned something from the criticism of those two or not.

As far as how he will die well I don’t care but yeah I would rather not have it in a predictable way but then I don’t care that much about the David story. Just let him die kind of early in the movie so we don’t get another one like AC as far as the David time is concerned.

Biodegradable:

“He will be attacked and will eventually crash on LV-426 as the big guy. That's it.”

I would tear my hair out if he will be the SJ, OK that is an exaggeration but maybe I would react to it like they did when they killed Luke namely that it is stupid fucking dumb trash. Honestly I wish that they would re-do the movie if that would be the case just like I wish that they would re-do TLJ for being such a disappointment. David as the Space-jockey doesn’t make sense scale-wise. The SJ is bigger than David so it would make more sense to let it be an Engineer or someone related to it. Unfortunately they have made some big bad decisions in the prequels this far but would they really be that stupid? I kind of doubt it but it is not impossible since they made it so David became responsible for the Xeno (at least it looks like that for now but I hope that they will change it).

AC is bad enough so I hope that they will not F it up more in the next one if there is another movie. My reaction if they say that they will make another one will probably be “Oh let’s see how this goes”. After  one OK movie and one where a lot is boring I have my doubts, I put it that way.

There are better ways that this could be written what what you have suggested or your guess of how they might do it. I would be so disappointed if they do it that way but then Scott (I think that it was) said that the Engineers will be in the next movie so maybe there is a way to save the SJ from being David.

As far as Daniels and Tennessee are concerned, they are not very well written so I am not sure if I would care. They could be better written in the next one, hopefully they will be so if they are there. Right now there is a very small chance the way I see it that any of them would survive but we will see.

BD:

Good then let it take its time, I do not want another David movie. I sort of lost interest in that after Alien Covenant because he was portrayed as a very unlikable character.

“*The David Creates the Xenomorph Angle.
*The over Emphasis on his Character being the driving Force of the Prequels much as Ripley was for the Alien Franchise.
*His Character Arc/Evolution compared to what he was in Prometheus.”

Oh I totally agree, these are what annoy me most about it. These are the things that they have got to change if I will be interested in another Alien prequel. I am not sure how they will make people interested again given that AC was not very good at all.

I did not care one bit for Shaw in Prometheus but I would have liked to see more about the Engineers but unfortunately they were killed in Alien Covenant (unless there are other Engineers elsewhere). Shaw in the Crossing was alright. This might be something that Scott and I would have agreed on that they should not have been getting rid of the Engineers in Alien Covenant. Maybe Scott would have liked some more of them if it would have been closer to what he wanted the movie to be. Give me more Engineers in the next movie if there will be one.

“And so what HAPPENS if they decide to not have David as the Creator of the Xenomorph....  do they show us this because they cover his Creation more and show us clues/answers that show its a Knock Off?”

I can think of things that I would rather see namely:

    • The Engineers made the Xenos from the Goo or
    • The Xeno is something that the Engineers found and developed maybe by using the goo
    • Maybe they found it at some other planet where there was another civilization but they stole it (not very likely)

All of these are more interesting than having David being the creator of it.

The do not need to introduce the original Xeno if they show us clearly that David made his own version. We have seen the Xeno in many movies so even if they decide to have it there they could use it for one scene which is fine if they use most of the time to get well made characters and things that make sense to the story. I am not even sure if we need to see it that much because to me at least it did not bother me that much in Prometheus since we got new monsters which I think was interesting.

“I think its not a case of getting rid of David... but i do think they have to find some middle ground, to try and please those who liked David or have hopes for his Character, and those who have lost interest or never had any in his Character.”

Give him a lesser role and less screen time and use that to focus on the engineers and well made human characters.

“I think a lot of Fans are hoping for Xenomorphs, that are NOT created by David, and also seeing the Engineers or another Race who are more Bad-ass to come into play and become the Space Jockey.”

That would be great. The Engineers could be those where one is the SJ but they have to be better done and make sense. I think that the SJ should be more like the Engineer in Prometheus compared to those that we saw at the plaza in Covenant because they looked mostly like peasants to me. Sure they probably were parts of the Engineer society but they did not look as scary as the Engineer/war-pilot in Prometheus.

“… which if a Handful are done RIGHT and they survive until the 3rd Part of this New Alien: Prequel Trilogy maybe it could work?” - BD

That would be great, it would be really good I would probably be like “Yes! They finally got it !” It is like a hockey game when two are not very good and then they team really gets it in the third period and goes from 1-4 and wins with 6-4. This would be great but I doubt that it would happen.

“… dragged out for those who want to get right into the Action/Horror and Mystery.”

I totally understand that but then if you can not relate to them then what good is the action? There got to be both in an alien movie IMHO. I would rather have Daniels killing David than the other way around. ;)

“But a Popcorn Flick Final Movie may be nothing to go back to time after time.”

Like Aliens? I would rather have a popcorn movie with good action and well made characters than a movie like AC, give me that any day. Aliens is a movie that I do not watch that much but it is alright for the moment but AC is a movie that I will probably not watch again (maybe if it is there for free at the www and I can skip the scenes that I find boring).

“IF this role does not change and David is the Big Part i do feel that by the end of the Next Movie a lot of Fans may not be interested in the Final Chapter apart from IF the Set-Up seems to lead to Engineers vs Xenomorphs and our Spoon Fed Space Jockey Event...”

Yeah make him more sympathetic (at least explain why he does what he does) but still reduce his role by a lot but anyways he should die in the next one, at least I hope so. Kill him off within 20-30 minutes into the movie and then we could be compensated for AC. I don’t care if Scott agrees with this or not because I do not want another movie about him. It should not be that complicated to not piss of the growing numbers of those that started to dislike David in AC. They should compensate those people I think not in money but as in having a good story/movie. On the other hand if they keep him the way it is now (as far as his personality and how much screen time he gets) then I kind of think about not watching it at all but they will have themselves to blame for that crap if so.

His Xenos, I hope that they are only his versions and that he did not do the originals, that would suck.

“Then HELL breaks loose”

That is alright if the Xenos kill him or the humans do so. Nah, kill that fucker.

“*The movie will be about what kind of a World David would create.
*It would not be about Xenomorphs but more to do with AI.”

No thanks to both of those if that would mean more robots and another movie focused on David.

“Davids Evolved Creations will end up on a Engineer Ship in their Thousands.”

If that still means having him as the original creator then no thanks. He could have re-created it though. Honestly I am tired of this David-centricity. Bring us sympathetic characters and kill him fast as F, all tyrants die sooner or later (he has that mind-set).

Michelle:

“Indeed I just read that last act in the wake of your comments and I found it uninteresting because the proposition was so hackneyed whatever its pace.”

Your own stuff or a book based on Alien Covenant? I am not sure which one that you mean, sorry.

I think that there were interesting things about Prometheus, I just think that it could have been better done on-screen. What is interesting is that a lot of people probably find different things to like about it which makes the movie interesting. P is not something that I love or hate I find it being OK with a lot of holes so to speak. There are things that I like about Prometheus while other things are just bad so that makes it an average/OK movie that I can watch now and then but there are some Alien movies that I think are a lot better (the first three). I will take Prometheus over Covenant any day, honestly.

The whole Alien Franchise is filled with different things so it would be no surprise that people find different things to like or dislike. This is something that should spark interesting discussions, not some fingerpointing. What some people write here I just react to it like "nah" while I totally agree about other things but that is alright.

“… I have put the meaning of the Derelict Juggernaut right at the top of the hierarchy of thank god it never got where it was going.“

That seems interesting, it is kind of close to when the Engineer ships leaves in the beginning of Prometheus right before the Engineer drinks that black liquid. When I watch that scene I kind of wonder where they went to after that. What did they talk about those Engineers that left on the plane? Where were they going? That to me is a mystery so it is interesting to think about those kind of things. Scott is good with the visuals and that whole scene looks very good.

Ah the Derelict, that is interesting that it still makes people think so many years after the movie was released. They did a really good job when they get into the ship with the lightning and how they created the whole atmosphere. It is not a lot of action there but it works because of the characters, pacing, and how it looks there. My own reaction in a situation like that would probably be: better safe than sorry.

“David in his current arc cannot act as our proxy indeed we should all be baying for his A I lubricant.”  

They messed him up, burn him to the ground or at least reduce his role in the movie. What do you mean with the AI lubricant thing anyways?

@BigDave, "which seemed to be why just killing her off was a bit of waste to some." Just a bit off a waste? Are you kidding. I've seen quite some comments on the Youtubes of type: "My interest for the series died with Shaw", so maybe your's an understatement.

And I repeat myself, with the exception of Cubed (and now Covenant), the series was not nihilistic. Everyone who dies is either stupid or can be a hero. Maybe there is an audience for such total nihilism, but that is not a place where to make a large profit.

@BigDave it's ok to think and to feel, but proof is better. It might be that they were going straight for the nazi thing but there they did arrive (maybe because of childhood trauma, I don't know).

And you know, there were not that many genocides in history, with a handful with millions of victims. Many more died in wars and of disease.

clicked on link but said it wasn't available unless i had a official link from you . . .pleeeease i got to read it.

Well thats a Good Point....  i can only assume that IF we assume a Separate Cargo Hold then it likely was a more Flat Surface like the Hangers in Prometheus/Alien Covenant and so the Roof was of a similar Construction to the Derelict/Juggernaught.

It would be interesting to see where we go Now..

Previous to Alien Covenant, RS still maintained this was a Cargo Hold on the Derelict, and that the Cargo Had Evolved overtime and then got to the Pilot.  Likely with his other comments meant a Few Hundred years after the LV-223 Outbreak.

But NOW we are going a U-Turn route where David created the Xenomorph, they now can U-Turn any notion of the Egg Silo being a Cargo Hold in the Ship too.

"Bladerunner is a fallen world with synthetic apartheid.

Alien is about a dark nihilistic monster killing people and a self serving company and marines and stuff with atttude. What Ridley tried to do was say hey the monster was a by product of a fall lets move on nothing here and lets explore all about everything :-"

This is VERY True and the Entirety of your post....  i had mentioned a number of times in the past that what Prometheus was showing us in context to ALIEN is that the Xenomorph is a Bi-Product of the Black-Goo that was to be used as a Weapon...   and so just as there is more to Mankind than Gunpowder (and the Weapons that Evolved from this) and so what Ridley Scott was doing  (in my opinion) is to say there is more to the Space Jockey race than just the Xenomorph which Ultimately was being portrayed as a Weapon.     So if we have  Mankind/Engineers,  then we have Gunpowder/Black-Goo and end up with AK-47/Xenomorph.

But there is more to Mankind than Weapons, and the Bigger Questions related should be WHY and so Why we create weapons for what Conflicts and how they came about... which is why RS felt the WHY was more important to the Xenomorph.   But also the Gunpowder Analogy is not quite right because the Black-Goo is much more than a Weapon, a Weapon is a Bi-Product/Use for it but there is so much more to this Substance.  That does not have to be confined to just Creating Xenomorph Monsters.

So indeed RS was trying to take us away from ALIEN he and Lindeloff clearly said any sequels would further distance away from ALIEN.  But in Hindsight the Tone Down of Connections and DNA links from Alien Engineers to Prometheus, and having no Xenomorph Related Attacks, and NO Answers to the Origins of the Xenomorph or the Space Jockey Event is something that a Number of Fans were just not pleased with Prometheus was just not ALIENY and FOX interpreted this meant a Majority of Fans would want a ALIENY Prequel Saga that would give the Xenomorph Origins and bring them back into the Fold.

In Hindsight if Prometheus was that little more ALIENY and its clues to ALIEN were less ambiguous, then i feel they could have closed the DOOR on ALIEN and moved off to the Direction they intended.

"Spirituality building on the idea of Christ as an Engineer"

Indeed i remember the remark that they was toying with this, but it was too on the nose....  i think a Problem with Prometheus and revelations like this was it did UPSET some of the Christian Community, but alas its only SCI-FI and i'm glad they did not reference too much to Christianity as well the idea is not these Engineers are GOD/Jesus, Angels and Demons...   But the Engineers are the Influence for where all of Mankinds (well most) of our Mythos and Religions came from... as many have connecting themes.

So Ridley Scotts comment on the Emissary sent down to put us right, but we killed him, is something more broad.... because i like to think they sent down Many Emissaries to each continent.

And Civilizations who lived in Ancient Ritualistic Ways, still appeased the Engineers, and after the Failed Attempt to Destroy us and then likely a Abandonment of us, i like to think in some distant Civilizations which for many years latter still kept the more Simple Ritual Life, maybe still had a few Emissaries Stranded behind with them.

I feel this would explain the Latter Date Star Maps that were dated latter than 2000 years ago.

"Damon is talking about is we need someone who mediates the story emotionally"

Certainly thats how i view it too, maybe the way i word things make interpreting what i said difficult at times, i do apologies.   I see RS was setting up Prometheus to NOT be a movie about a ALIEN Race that created a Alien Beast... he wanted to get us to ponder some Big Questions,  about Creation, the Soul, God, where we go when we Die.

These are some of the Biggest Questions and Mysteries in LIFE, and even if you are a Atheist (and we can see Weyland Reflects this) when it comes to Deaths Door, people do Clutch at Straws and Turn to a God they dont believe in because of that BIG and the BIGGEST Part of Life.. which is Death.... what happens Next.

So RS is teasing us with this, but also exploring the Ancient Alien Concept that Our Creation/Gods are actually Interstellar Alien Beings. 

And Dr Shaw was our Ticket to those Answers, she was the Character we was meant to reflect with so we can be in her Shoes for the journey, which seemed to be why just killing her off was a bit of waste to some.

But i think on the other Hand RS was also treading the Line that WHAT IF there is nothing Special to Creation, and Creation is actually similar to maybe WHY David was created rather than any important significant reasons...   There are a lot of Reasons for Creation in various Mythos/Religions and mainly the Abrahamic Ones lend to a Loving God Created us to Watch over and Love.... but there is much more to it than that...  where we have to ask.. IF Lucifer was not as Sentient and more like a Walter than a David.. would GOD had even needed/wanted to create Mankind.  I have a feeling RS was going to take us on a route to actually show why the Engineers were created, and why Mankind was created and i dont think it was the same reasons that say a Loving Couple would Choose to Create a Child Together.

So Dr Shaw was the Person we was supposed to connect with so that we are in her shoes for when she gets her Answers, and the Results/Effects those Answers depending one WHAT they would have been would have a Drastic Effect on Dr Shaw and if we followed her Journey and her Character Improved so we could connect with her, then through her the Story could have become very Engaging for us all...  Which we just wont get NOW.... even doing Flash Backs etc may not have the same impact as it could have been.

Which is why your Planned Story is interesting as a Attempt to Give us what we could have had, if they had Pursued what we was being led to that a Prometheus 2 would have covered.

I respect everyone has their own opinions  but i dont think every ideology that is similar to Nazism means they are Nazis or Fascists.

I dont see how it also has to have a lot to do with David, while there may be some things you could connect with Hitler, i dont think the objective was to go and make David a 22nd Century Hitler.

There have been many Genocides in History or what could be called it, and we could even see similar with Moses and his Road to Claim the Land of Israel as partaking in Genocide.   We could look at the Crusades and should we then stop referring to ISIS or Al Qaeda as they are but call them Crusaders?    While there may be some differences their are similarities but this does not mean they should be called the same thing.

David indeed has little Care for Mankind, and the Engineers and while he committed Genocide on those Engineers, i think its not the same reasons as Hitler committed his Acts of Genocide, while David views Humans as In-superior and that Synthetics are the Superior Race, its not quite the same as Hitler and his view of White Supremacist Race.

But i guess we can see how some can make a connection, but i dont think this is the aim of Davids Character, but everyone is entitled to have their own views on the matter.

And so with that i will leave commenting on anything related in context to Alien Covenant.

It's great to revisit this topic again after such a long time has passed. It's been 4 years since I last posted a reply on this thread. Interesting how my opinion has changed over the past 4 years. I now have the opinion that the egg silo could be separate from the derelict. The thought of it being an underground complex/storage facility is very interesting.

However, there is one problem with this theory. How would Kane have possibly descended through, not only, the hole in the floor of the pilot chamber, the hull of the ship but also the roof of the egg silo (assuming the silo is a separate underground facility?)

Could the acid have eaten its way through a rocky surface?

Or maybe the ship docked via some sort of pipe that leads down to the silo?

It is also possible that all these events happen in a relative time frame of each other we do not know the age of the ship on LV423. I am only going on an assumption.

I feel maybe you want to play Blu Ray on PC but you don't how to do that, right? I'll tell you.

 I wonder what Paul Anderson say about Prometheus?

since I know there is a way could play blue ray on PC, I just want to have a try.

@BigDave " but there have been other Movements/Cults/Leaders and Tyrants who also had a lot in common with Hitler too." For example who? without giving the example of other fascists or people inspiring the fascists like the Spartans. 

And sorry, even if you don't like the 20th century movement but have the an ideology very reminiscent of them you are still Nazi.

@BigDave

Your answer interests me because you are intellectualising the notion of a proxy whereas what Damon is talking about is we need someone who mediates the story emotionally. If you look at the beats of the film carefully. Creation/Ellie's father Paradise is where I chose to believe we go/they are us we are them/then besting all the shits on the Prometheus and surviving there is a human story.

David shows he has feelings watching him work through the Weyland debrief his resolution to do what Weyland wants but leads him to his death which he wants generates enough ambiguity before we get the next three key changes His head is ripped off/Weyland dies as he wishes/Elizabeth heals him.

So going into Prometheus continuation we are routing for Elizabeth she has questions we have the same ones and how David responds to the three events given he served unwillingly is wide open. Where the subtext gets interesting is if this is a mythos where the currency of creation is knowledge then what represents life bio mech or both and is their any moral relativism. I think its the latter where they all came unstuck.

Bladerunner is a fallen world with synthetic apartheid.

Alien is about a dark nihilistic monster killing people and a self serving company and marines and stuff with atttude. What Ridley tried to do was say hey the monster was a by product of a fall lets move on nothing here and lets explore all about everything :-

1) Like what is life. - Elizabeth and David the two sides.

2) What is a soul how does it come about . - David 

3) What is the spiritual currency of an Engineered world where sacrifice was noble and creation of worlds and species is about knowledge. -Engineers what the planetoid and what goes down at home. 

And everyone went just tell Ridley the fan boys are drooling over Blomkamp. Because based on some recent intel he was dragged back to the cooked beast. So I will give them f...... was quite passive aggressive rather like his robot.

But to finish the point what if the Lindelof next phase was positively a different kind of spirituality building on the idea of Christ as an Engineer. Now that would not do because the franchise is meant to be dark period. What if creation is tough but good. "The trick William Potter is not minding it hurts" 

Dr Shaw as our Proxy...  i do see this as being the case, she would be the Human Character we can connect with for the answers she wants, as the movie opens up with some Questions, that would get us to also want to know these Answers, and HOW would they tackle them in context to the Franchise.

And so we could engage with how she would feel/act depending on WHAT answers she got, and how close they are to what she "CHOOSES to Believe" and what Revelations they had in store.

David would a Proxy for us to see the Actual Real Reason or Significance of Creation.   So Dr Shaws Journey and Questions could be what we would HOPE to discover.  Where as David i feel would have been used to show us what ACTUALLY maybe Creation was all about.

Dr Shaw is holding out that Mankind is Special, has a Special Place in the Universe, that is to be Cherished and Loved by her GOD.. and that at some part of the Creation Ladder their has to be a Being/Beings who reflect the Creation/God of her Faith.

I feel she actually finds out  the TRUTH is much worse than she could ever hope for..... and this leaves room to BREAK her Character and then explore what becomes of her Once she discovers Answers that is Totally against what she hoped for.

All of this was brushed aside for the ONLY thing that seemed to matter now.... HOW was the Xenomorph Created, WHEN/WHERE and WHY

Where only the Engineers Bio-Weapon, and Davids Reasoning for being against Mortal Creation and his view on the Role he was seen as only being worthy of (To Serve) has shaped his Agenda to be Creator himself and Undo his Creators.

"Are we sure that even that he is that kind of a robot? In meet Walter we see that in a exoskeleton white liquid is poured in vacuum and after that a complete MF is born"

Certainly is a Good  Point, i'm certainly surprised i overlooked this too ;)

A Majority of what i put in regards to where we can go next, is to try and make some kind of sense/way out of the Mess they have Written themselves into a Corner with.

Having ONE Synthetic with no way of Maintenance sounds Flawed to me, but indeed the Meet Walter Viral does seem to show a FABRICATED in One Piece to it.  The whole DNA Imprinting was also interesting.  And we have to wonder WHY was this mentioned and attributed to Walter?

We are led to that Walter Can Repair himself, in some kind of Regenerative way, but David also had the Wound given to him off Daniels Heal up.....   we could ask did David have time to Transfer his AI Soul to Walter?

I think accepting that a Walter Can Self Repair, we have to ask HOW FAR does this go, to a degree does this mean they NEED No Parts?  What if the Walter Suffers Serve Damage?  If they only NEED and take ONE Walter on the Mission, then it really limits them, but then we see NO Evidence of David having Spare Parts for the Prometheus Mission, but i would assume a Long Term Colonization mission they would have some Contingency plans.

But if we do assume lets say they have ONE Walter, and NO Parts, and that he CAN Regenerate... we have to ask can he Regenerate a HAND?

IF he cant then it really hinders David, and how is he going to Explain that Injury to the Colonist.. IF Walter Can Regenerate a Hand, then this puts David in a even BIGGER Pickle... especially if the Colonist know of Walters Abilities.  They would Question WHY there Walter has not grown his Hand back.   I think a lot comes from the Writers not Fully thinking about how Plot Devices could lead to any Future Problems.

I was drawn to thinking that i cant see them CAST Fassbender to play a One Handed Robot for the remainder of the Franchise, so came up with such a Theory as a way to get out of ONE Corner they have written themselves in.

I suppose another option in LIGHT of the points raised, is maybe they have a Number of WALTER Bodies, that they can Transfer the Memories etc of a too badly Damaged Walter to... which could mean David could Transfer himself to a Spare Back Up Walter?

Regarding Daniels... i just think David had a bit of a obsession with Dr Shaw, and he certainly seemed intrigued to see if Walter had any kind of Feelings for Daniels... i think David is a unstable and a bit Crazy Synthetic..   And so my point really is how i feel the Potential is David could become Infatuated a bit with Daniels, rather than having a Definite Outlook towards her at Present.

I feel his Character could develop after the Loss of Dr Shaw, and him pondering WHY Walter could not have same feelings for Daniels, i think David could see that Walters Limited Free-Will was wasted on him, and what Potential Walter would have IF he was like David as far as then being able to Appreciate Daniels rather than just DUTY.

So i just suspect that David would want to Experiment with Daniels, but he would be very interested and intrigued in her, so maybe Infatuated is the Wrong choice of Words... he could be Infatuated with his Agenda for her, rather than any actual LOVE i think David would see her more than just a Test Subject...  and would Keep her Alive but Captive, which i think would lead to a Hubris for him, and how he would get caught out...  But his Arrogance and his Wicked Nature to keep Daniels as his Play Thing would be his Downfall.

"We got a few on here and other sites more, in regards to Nazi and Homophobic comments aimed towards the Character David portrayed in Alien Covenant."

My apologies to how i worded, that i do sometimes place a certain Word in place of another by accident and what i should have put was this.

We have seen a few on here and other sites more in the past

Regards to when there was a few harsh ones put on here, after the movie came out, i chose to not pay attention or get involved in those kinds of discussions as i remember we did have 1-2 who seemed to be a little offensive and maybe Trolling and came across as against Gay People.

I know ONE of these got Banned because they also Trolled and was abusive to others on here in other Topics... but i never paid any attention to such debates.

So any such debates between yourself I Moon Girl and ATI, i totally missed and would not have got drawn into and i have NEVER recalled to my knowledge any point where you have ever done anything that is aimed against others on here or Homophobic at all, I am sorry if maybe you thought i was aiming it at you, but i was not as i had NO knowledge that you even got into any debate on such a subject as i have only ever always seen you as a respectful member of this community.

Not Related to any One Person... i will add that on various sites, there has been a Backlash to David, due to some of his Actions such as Creating the Xenomorph and Killing Dr Shaw... as i am sure a number of people Hopped to had seen Dr Shaw or her used more than she was, and also YEP! That Curve-Ball David Creates the Xenomorph is certainly ONE of the Biggest Reveals that i think has much more people who Dislike this Route, than are a Fan of it.

It does appear that David's Character is to Alien Covenant as Damon Lindeloff was to Prometheus...    as far as Backlash for some of the Disappointments or ways these Movies went that had not pleased some Fans.

"If you're talking about me in this homophobic comments, then you're wrong.  I've never said David was homophobic.  The user "Ati" just kept reading what I said as me saying David is a homo."

I never implied any body, sorry if it came across as this, i mentioned NO names as i dont even really remember specifically those who had made comparisons to Nazi's and Homosexuality, i think we had a few Trolls who may have here, but i also noticed it on Youtube, and so i was not specifically referring to anyone on here.

And also I Moon Girl i never even realized you had any such debates and so when making the comment, i 100% never thought it would apply to you...   When debates like the Homo-Erotic stuff had been mentioned on here a little bit, i usually just skip past these and PAY NO attention to what was put or any replies.

"David is a much more complicated character than that."

Totally agree, to me i got the impression he may have started to get some kind of Sexual Emotional Attachment to Dr Shaw, and this Emotion he may have gained could be Frustrating as he is not Equipped to become any kind of Sex Companion, but i kind of got a hint he could have some kind of Sexual Frustration and Confusion.  But he never came across as Homosexual or anything to me, i think while some aspects of his Character were a little Camp, i dont get the impression he was though, i think a lot was some Bad Writing to have Scenes that have some kind of Sexual Innuendo  but this was a ALIEN movie and not a CARRY ON movie so i felt it was a bit out of place.

I took the David and Walter Kiss Scene as David showing that he feels Mankind DONT Appreciate the Perfection of Synthetics and only see them as Robots... where David sees Walter as one of his own, with so much Potential to become Free and Sentient, rather than to Serve.

The KISS i always took to represent a Judas Kiss/Kiss of Death.

@ignorantGuy

I dont see him as a Nazi, and i doubt he maybe was fond of the Regime/Movement...  But i agree there are a number of connecting Themes with the Nazi Movement, but there have been other Movements/Cults/Leaders and Tyrants who also had a lot in common with Hitler too.

I certainly read into it that David sees Synthetics as a Superior Race to Humanity and Humanoids and the Rightful Heirs to becoming the Ruling Elite and that Humanity and the Engineers are Races who DONT Deserve Life and so i certainly can see him have a Agenda to want to RID of Humans/Engineers and replace them with Synthetics and his OWN Creations.

I do like this, it appears to look the Halfway point between Davids Alien Covenant Xenomorph and the 1979 Alien Big Chap.

Cool!

I have just started reading River of Pain.

Between Out of the Shadows and Sea of Sorrows...

Sea of Sorrows is my favorite.

My problem with Out of the Shadows is the whole base of the story is flawed in my opinion.  I feel like the Ripley character is being stretched beyond the limit line for me.  I thought Alien: Resurrection Ripley clone was a FABULOUS idea, yet other fans of the franchise thought it was just stupid.

I thought Ripley being woken up between Alien and Aliens, and not having ANY mention of it in any of the following movies in the franchise timeline, was a bad idea, yet from reading posts in this thread, apparently some fans thought is was a good idea.

Other than how Ripley got involved in Out of the Shadows, I found the book very interesting and would definitely do great in a theater format.

Still, all that aside, I still think Sea of Sorrows was better, but enough about one being better than another.

Just generally speaking, I REALLY enjoyed Sea of Sorrows.  It definitely is a good story and I feel like it took the franchise in a new direction by not bringing Ripley back.  Still, in a way they did and that way was very creative.

Good stuff!