New Replies (Page 353)
I think this would be a bit Popcorn/Comics take on the Franchise... maybe we cant rule out seeing the Xenomorph Evolved to be able to use such Technology but i think it takes away the HORROR/ALIEN Element of the Organism.
I certainly would be up for introducing a Species that are similar to the Xenomorphs as in a Bio-Mechanical/HR Giger Aesthetic that have more Advanced Technology and even maybe suggest our Engineers had Stolen/Re-Engineered from this Species.
But i think you point was in Aliens as in a Alien Species and so indeed if this is the case, its something i think that could be introduced and you have to WONDER did RS have this in mind when he came the Whole WAR OF THE WORLDS comment... and how he Felt the Alien Franchise could take some hints from the Star Wars Franchise... so maybe MULTIPLE Alien Species?
I think RS with his Prequels and the Engineers linked to Genetic Space Gardeners... was something more than him just seeing the Franchise limited to Humans, Engineers, and Synthetics and various Xenomorph/Black Goo Bio-Weapons/Organisms.
IG, is that not alien meets congo then? lol
if u go back to alien, nothing happens for over 45 mins but was any of it boring? hell no. I do agree the script was poorly written but I feel there are a mixture of things affecting AC from bad writing to horrendous casting but the under lying truth is we the fans have to shoulder a large proportion of the blame here. for me there is no sci-fi issues that affect AC, its the worst film in the franchise by a long way due to the studio playing it safe due to the Prometheus backlash (which I don't actually get but I loved Prometheus so im bias) and the hope of pleasing the unhappy. I think Prometheus and RS are getting some of the recognition it deserves now for where it was trying to go but how sad is it that the sequel had to be ruined for that to happen.
I would still say there is no QUEEN/KING as per-say in the Franchise.
By that i think its ideal to look at the Organism as having NO Sex.
So by this then indeed the KING as far as its Aesthetics could be something that could be introduced but for it to only been seen as more of a Advanced Queen or maybe a Evolution of the Xenomorph that By-Passes the Queen Stage.... and so a Organism that Impregnates a Host Directly.... and so it Functions as a Face Hugger, so that there is NO NEED for the Egg/Face Hugger Stage.
But then we have seen this before with the Pred-Alien in AVPR
IF.... we explore the KING as in the Sideshow Model and introduce this to the Franchise, i dont think it would fit a purpose of MATING with Xenomorph Queens as we are shown this is NOT needed.
But instead having this KING as a Evolution of the Species and a Organism that has Hosts Brought to it where it can Impregnate them directly with a Xenomorph Embryo.. would be something maybe that could be explored.... Certainly FITTING to HR Gigers twisted/surreal mind.
Where Hosts are brought to the KING to in effect be Raped by the Beast!
What about elder and civilized Aliens taking up pulse rifles and killing savage Apes ? (Congo meets Alien in reverse)
"I wonder why they didn't use monkeys instead of humans in A:R?"
I think in part for the Purpose of the Movie, there is more Horror in Humans being Chest Busted....
As far as the Plot and Purpose of the Xenomorph, maybe the desired outcome is with Human Hosts rather than Primates, so there is something with the Human Brain and Evolution that is of more Benefit for the Organism.... The Prequels are hinting the Xenomorph is Engineered more to so infect Humans... and also its hinted that David found more success with the Human Genetics than the Engineers in the pursuit of his Perfect Creation.
But Certainly as far as Dr Wren is concerned he saw more applications of the Xenomorph than just to use as a Weapon Weapon/Killing Machine, he was looking at the potential Medical and Construction uses for the Xenomorphs unique Genetic/Bio-Mechanical Traits.
Which would mean that WHY use Humans and NOT Primates is a very good Question...
Totally ali81 ;)
Alien Covenant was forced into being a Direct Prequel... where its events would eventually lead to ALIEN to Spoon Feed the Answers of the Xenomorph Origins and set up sequels to eventually lead to the Derelict/Space Jockey.
It carried over the Black Goo, trying to explain what this stuff could do, it brushed aside Dr Shaw and the Engineers because FOX felt Fans wanted Xenomorph Origins and Xenomorph related Shenanigans and that they could continue David's ARC and explore the Creation Themes and Philosophy with David and so did not need Dr Shaw or Engineers.
The movie tried so hard to please every fan.... Alien Fans... with some Alien Movie kind of Action (just for such a limited time) Aliens Fans with some Aliens kind of Action (Neomorphs and again such a limited time)... while still reflecting it about ORIGINS and WHEN/WHY rather than HOW/WHERE the Xenomorph Orgins came about... where RS/FOX felt the David Curve-ball would be interesting... while it covered the When/Why/Where and loosely How.... i think the Curve-ball is something that has not settled well with Fans.
RS also knew you had be invested in the Characters... so SLOW Build up was used with Alien Covenant so that they dont rush into the Xenomorph/Alien Encounters and $&%& Hitting the Fan too soon... Sadly the Build up did nothing to really bring home the Characters.
The ALIENS (Xenomorph type attacks vs Humans with Guns) and ALIEN/ALIEN 3 (Xenomorph on a Ship, Xenomorph on the loose Hunting Humans) kind of scenes did not have much time dedicated to do them ANY Justice and they became just Plot Device Cameo's
Because the Majority of the Plot was around David and his Agenda/Actions and his interactions/differences with Walter.
The Movie was trying to FORCE too much in too short a time... this MOVIE needed about 3 hours to do any of the Plot Justice.
fans wanted an 'alien' movie. they thought RS would give a masterpiece where an alien chases people. basically a rehash of the original but with enough differences as to be a stand alone movie but didn't have the IQ to see that the franchise needed a different direction. didn't even get it when RS stated he was going to investigate the only true mystery in the franchise which was the SJ and the eggs but to do that in a trilogy, some patience was required but no, they wanted f*****g aliens so now we have a movie that does nothing for the franchise except probably lead up to destroying the whole mystery of the derelict scene. changes changes changes and ill bet wer getting about 30 percent of the story RS wanted to tell.
so to the OT, where alien is concerned as it is an alien forum, its got nothing to do with the 'wev seen it all before' issues facing sci-fi. its down to a magician behind a camera having a vision im betting is 30 years old and after 1 movie hes been forced to dump a lot of his ideas in favour of the safe tried and tested path.
This is similar to discussions we had in the past Regarding the Egg Morph.
If we ASSUME a Hive has ONE Queen... we have to ask HOW does a Queen come to be?
But its more than just that, i think the most Logical Explanation has to be once a Hive is Set up, the Xenomorph Hive Construction (The Material the Walls etc are built with) either let of certain Pheromones or Signals that interact with the Eggs and Queen.
There has to be Logically some way the Hive Complex, Eggs and Queen can interact with each other even at the base level of Pheromones.
So as that maybe Once a Queen has died or leaves the HIVE Permanently maybe some Eggs Gestate a Drone Xenomorph instead of Warriors. Or a Royal Face Hugger?
The Drone Xenomorph i had the inclination that this is what Gestates from a Xenomorph Embryo when the Embryo is away from the HIVE/Cargo of Eggs. Where it is out of reach of signals be it Pheromones, Telepathy or something else.
The Drone is Born and its Purpose is to EGG MORPH a host into a Royal Face Hugger which then would Gestate a Queen and then set up a New Hive.
Another route could be that WHEN a Queen Dies or Leaves the HIVE the Warrior Xenomorphs can Manipulate Eggs to Gestate a Royal Face Hugger.
"What about a full movie from the perspective of a Xenomorph from chest bursting to what ever happens to them at old age."
Certainly would be a NEW ish Spin on the Franchise from the POV of the Xenomorph, but would something like this work?
You would have to have Characters or else it would maybe not work or please general fans..... so it would end up maybe more like a FRIDAY THE 13TH Part 13 But have more of the Scenes from Jasons POV
I think these kinds of ideas work better for a Game....
I think Prometheus was offering ideas that while not Original it was a attempt to merge a number of ideas into something some what Fresh. I think now its become a MESS due to the Direction Alien Covenant had taken the Prequels.
Featured this, excellent post~
I think the whole Prometheus vs Changes debate, all comes down to NOT how well at the Box Office Prometheus did but how a majority of fans had problems with the movie and its direction. Ridley Scott had said its a loose prequel, it has some connective tissue but it was set to give us something NEW and explore the Space Jockey/Engineers and set up a explanation to the Universe and a sequel would Steer from ALIEN.
But there was a lot of Fans and Public who picked up on these flaws or complaints.
*Its a Alien Universe Movie but does not show the ALIEN (Xenomorph)
*Its a Prequel Movie but it does not give any real definite clues to HOW/WHEN/WHY the Xenomorph was created or Originated from and a Sequel that would Steer Away from Alien would mean NOT getting these Answers a number of Fans thought Prometheus would give.
*Some Fans were not pleased about the way the Space Jockey was reduced to 7.5ft Bald Angry Humanoids, and the whole Gods/Creation Philosophy and themes NEVER really connected or had anything really to do with the ALIEN Franchise.
*Sadly Dr Shaw's Character was not considered too interesting, and Fans of the ALIEN Franchise are not so much interested in her Questions that could defy her Faith... They wanted ALIEN Environments, Alien Origins Answers.
So FOX would have been looking at these kinds of complaints, and things that it appeared Fans may have been less/or more interested in and HENCE it guided them to make changes to incorporate the above, as FOX felt doing so would surely mean more Success than Prometheus.
*Prometheus just never had that ALIEN Haunted house Feel, it never had that ALIENS Action Feel and it certainly lacked Horror and Gore and Humans Dealing with Horrific Alien Creatures as good as the ALIEN Franchise had.
So they took the maybe interesting parts of Prometheus which was David and the Black Goo..... looked at the Criticisms for Prometheus and added what they felt Prometheus was lacking but SADLY it lead to a somewhat Forced/Rushed Movie that tried to be a bit of everything.
What about a full movie from the perspective of a Xenomorph from chest bursting to what ever happens to them at old age.
In regards to the OT....
I think every genre its quite hard to come up with something Original, we have the Golden Era of the 70's/80's and 90's where even some of those ideas had been done to a degree prior but the late 70's allowed for better effects to make the worlds more believable. So what RS said is true but it applies to more than just Scfi-Fi.
I would say the Sci-Fi Genre is still something you can come up with something more Original much more easier than others, i would say Fantasy Genre too.... because your not restricted by as many boundaries but its still hard to come up with something REALLY Original.
sometimes a Original Idea would come along or one that has more original elements than many movies around, but these are NOT Big Budget movies.... where in this case THESE ideas could be Ripped-Off and borrowed or incorporated for a Bigger Budget Flick... that some may see as quite Original but in reality borrowed from a less known movie that already touched on some kind of ingenuity.
What i am saying is its not only about finding something Original its about Executing this idea and what kind of Budget/Cast these movies have.
We also have a way of being somewhat Original by Merging TWO Concepts/Genres into one to give something Persudo-Original as we saw with CLOVERFIELD... it was not Original... we have had Giant Monster movies since the Dawn Of Cinema... The Found Footage Genre was also not Original but the Combining of the TWO is what made Cloverfield somewhat unique... but its a case of doing a Sequel that is again Found Footage would simply not be Original or Groundbreaking anymore.
so this brings us to what Ridley Scott said about Characters... while you can struggle to find something NEW anymore, that does not mean a idea that has been done Can-Not be made to feel Fresh! And also its about having a Good Story and Great Characters/Dialog that really can make a already DONE idea appeal a bit more.
I sadly dont think the Prequels have been Great in its Characters, Prometheus was not too too bad.... David was by far the Stand Out Character.... but then with Alien Covenant.. they brushed under the Carpet Dr Shaw with the Engineers and David while in some scenes was interesting, in others he was NO-WHERE as well done a Character as in Prometheus..
With Daniels... she was a high ranked Character, her and her Husband were the Leaders of the Expedition but the Character of Daniels just never seemed to work, i think because the movie was going back and forth a bit between a few Characters... Oram, Daniels and Tennessee that it was hard to gauge who was really the lead. And it appeared they was all just attachments and plot devices to give us the Walter vs David Story.
Maybe the eldest remaining Xenomorph mutates into a new queen? Or they maybe duke it out? Or maybe they hold elections, with some Republican and Democrat Xenomorphs.
I admit my guilt for staying silent, but I never could imagine that such a loud minority could be so "persuasive".
only my opinion but where the alien franchise is now is where we deserve it to be. the Prometheus haters were loud and the Prometheus lovers were silent. RS WAS going for something new. he knew the issues with sci-fi and wanted to do something different as shown in Prometheus. if fans had just waited to see where Ridley was going I believe the Prometheus sequel wouldv been soo much better I think. but no. they moaned n moaned n RS and Fox changed things up and went the safe route they believed the fans wanted. ridley couldv gave us a prequel trilogy that other directors couldv advanced for another 10 movies in all sorts of directions but now that's not possible. good job....
I still like the David character (and Fassbender) but the more I watch Covenant the more Im not to keen on how he was portrayed in that film. I liked him in Prometheus where he went about his nefarious business under the radar of the others, manipulating events with a subtle hand.
Instead of being directly confrontational, and vindictive like he we see in AC he conducted himself without emotion, and it made him more dangerous and unpredictable...and that made his character more dynamic. In AC he is just a mad scientist.
They needed to put Advent in the film, it showed his more unemotional/unremorseful side.
Terrorist or hero- seems to depend on which side one is on.
That's DissectedEngineer's Xeno cake she got not to long ago. I haven't seen her on here in awhile. I think she was saying school was starting and she's a teacher.
BigDave said, "But back the point about Call being a Terrorist i think it fits well, because if we look at AI Evolving to be so advanced like Ash/David or a Call or the Replicants...."
Still, when Dr. Wren called Call a terrorist, he had no idea that she is an android. He had no evidence that Call was even a terrorist except the fact that she was messing with Ripley's cell. I think Dr. Wren called Call a terrorist maybe because it was the first thing that made logical sense to him on the spur of the moment. Plus, if AI is acting like you think it is in the Alien franchise around A:R times, then I'm sure that Dr. Wren would logically think to call Call a terrorist during the spur of the moment since then the word 'terrorist' would be a buzz word during those times. Still, I don't think Dr. Wren had any idea that Call was a robot. Maybe the crashing of a similar research vessel as described in "Sea of Sorrows" just is making any research vessel a little paranoid. I'm sure the Auriga is extra paranoid because of what they're researching too. I'm sure security is typically fairly low on those since it's just research. Plus, I'm sure most of those vessels are in controlled space, unlike the Auriga. I would assume they would have extra security to protect themselves from terrorists or pirates, like the Betty.
Instead, why not hire the Betty to do your dirty work and pay them for it so they have no reason to attack the ship. I'm a little out there on that idea, but hey, I just thought I'd mention it. I wonder why they didn't use monkeys instead of humans in A:R? I'm sure those Xeno's would be smaller and easier to control. Or maybe use an animal with less intelligence, unlike humans, to make them easier to control.
Maybe they would make some good meat for Steamed Hams. Would make it an unforgettable luncheon
That I said also. I have never about it either before the Esquire claim. It appears that in the book the protagonist is partly Asian... ok what ever.
I did not understand what the fuss was about the Ghost in the Shell movie, as in the anime/manga the characters are not very asian looking in the first place and in that world Big Corps replaced governments and Almost of the protagonists body is robotic.
Now can we get Alien: Isolation in VR too?!! XD
ignorantGuy yeah Im not sure about that the whitewashing scandal, Im guessing something to do with distribution rights perhaps?
In Australia, we got Annihilation via Netflix. Good film, but again unravelling and exploring what is inside 'the shimmer', and the motivations driving the teams that went inside could have much better explored via a series. Series are the definitely the way forward for that multimedia experience :)
But they said also about Annihilation that was involved in a whitewashing scandal, but I have never heard about (and they link it to themselves) and they frame it as the cause for it not being in the UK. wtf?
Well the most interesting (more then any X-men, Logan, F4, Spider-mans, Avengers, etc) of the Marvel stuff I find to be Legion and that is also a series now in it's second season.
Sorry Hollywood, but it is time for you to adapt. When did you make the last truly intelligent character or charismatic?
ignorantGuy its funny you say that. I originally come across the article on The Expanse's main Facebook group, they were defending the series against such Netflix bashing.
The Expanse like several other Netflix series use low-key, non-established actors that have hours of run-time to develop their characters. And it works! Their characters and plots are in the order of magnitudes more robust and relatable than big name actors in 2-3hr blockbusters!
I am all for series like this taking over the mantle of cinematic entertainment! I would go so far as to encourage the Alien franchise to get on-board too.
Let Marval/DC fans have their popcorn and explosion fest of spoon-fed unintelligent blockbusters.
On the other forum (that with galaxy in the name) it states that this will be playable in malls only as it requires spacial hardware, and it will cost $22 per 15 minutes of play.
It will have a wireless headset, but my question is have the solved the latency issues with such devices? Or will this stagger.
Almost certainly the Queen in the David context will be the some form of Queen of Bathsheba. "The Bathsheba incident leads to a shift in the book's perspective; afterwards David "is largely at the mercy of events rather than directing them".He is no longer able to control his family, and ends up being overthrown by Absalom" wikipedia.com
This is as clear as the switcharoo was in Covenant. How can this be exciting and new? Can I root for a genocidal rapist megalomaniac @..-hole? I'm interested in seeing it, no.
Sorry but Hannibal was only really good when opposing Foster's Clarice, and being the only non @$$-hole man around her (being civilized and all). However David kills and probability raped his Clarice, so no, he is just the next maniacal asshole .
I will only say that half of that article was netflix bashing, saying that their characters are bad, but what about mainstream Hollywood schi-fi characters? Are they really that good?
This could be the best game I will never play.
Longer movies could make a big difference in a good way. Then the problem of pleasing fickle fans comes into play. It was too long whaah!
Also, it might be harder to take risks with studios wanting to play it safe for profits sake.
A large part of the Alien lore was the ambiguous and ancient endless mystery of the origins of the Xenomorph. This seems like a double edged sword in that a lot of people don't seem to like ambiguity and want every minute facet Xenomorph explained in painstaking detail.
Sadly I don't have a VR gaming system...
I understand that the prequels, so far, don't have a lead character throughout. But, maybe Ridley Scott is trying to do this on purpose. Ripley has been a lead character for 4 movies and almost a 5th! I feel like Scott is trying to emphasize this fact by not carrying over any lead characters from any of the prequels. Well, at least lead characters that are on the side of humanity. We do have David, but he is a villain. So, instead of a good, caring, person who is on the side of good, we get an evil, self-centered, android who is on the side of bad. I think Ridley Scott is just trying to reinvent a big part of the Alien franchise, which is the fact that Ripley is the main character in the original 4.
Still, deeper characters in each of the prequels movies would have been nice. Still, the movies have been limited to 2 hrs. Maybe they should be limited to 2hr 30min to allow more character development time.
I think Scott, like many others, has for many years and will continue for years to come, to explore the connections between faith and science... or in my eyes - spirituality and science, this latter of the two being something many Atheists say to have (spirituality/science). I think trying to over define the engineers and even David in a greater sense than how they portray themselves in the movies is rather pointless. Go with what we know and break it down from there - coulda woulda shoulda's aren't going to explain or sum up anything as Scott seems to be saying: we don't really fucking know what's on the other side of the veil nor we will ever know.
While I would LOVE for Scott to drag out his theories into three to five more movies we have to admit here that (at least as far as we know to date) there is to be only ONE more movie that will connect us to the original. This leaves us very little time for such grandiose ideas on discovering the Universe. I think we are simply going to see how David is able to create the original Alien species and program Mother and future Androids to carry out his agenda... I think it will be the Alien species that destroys David in the end... whatever the engineers part is I don't think it will be much, as Scott simply does not have the time to evolve the story as he originally intended. (I for one loved the engineers and admit it is sad that we won't likely receive enough closure in what their purpose truly is or was).
I find this to be fantastic! Having a degree in Psychology I definitely have always loved Hannibal as he is fascinating on so many levels, and damn this makes sense of why I find this to be true with David as well. It is intriguing to think that David is an android gone bad because he is able to feel and ultimately develops a conscious - while Hannibal is not an android there is definitely a connection on how both felt extremely robbed of their humanity and feel the overwhelming need to be able to create something meaningful to leave behind... as a way to error correct how they have been wronged I think... anyhow David's skewed sense/ideas on morality show through in the future android Ash (I'll leave Bishop out of this as Cameron's ideas here deviated away from the android wanting control). "I admire its purity" - Haha, I can picture Hannibal borrowing this line! In all I would have to say that all three actors here (Fassbender, Holm, Hopkins) are the REASONS for why these characters have so much depth to them... unlike Winona Ryder's character in Resurrection.... so gross.
BigDave said, "I think this is a rael problem with literally prequels as Lindeloff rightly said you are always going to end up knowing how it ENDS"
I agree with this to a point. Still, the I think how the eggs get on LV-426 can be ignored till the last 15 minutes. The rest 1hr and 45 min of the movie can be about anything else. The last 15 minutes could be explained in a very simple dialogue between David and an Engineer teaching David a lesson.
In that kind of story, the 1979 ALIEN doesn't weigh down the last of the prequels. Instead, Alien: Awakening covers how the rogue A.I. David dies, Engineer culture, and what happened to the 2,000 colonists. The Engineer culture could explain everything really and that is something greatly missing from the prequels. I feel that the idea that David created the first Xenomorph to EVER EXIST could be wrong. David could have a rude awakening and realize he is not the next, great visionary that he thought he was. Instead, David finally realizes he's not a visionary, but instead, is a rotten, spoiled, and evil "child" of humans because he forgot how to be a robot, which is what he is. He could reply, "But it was what I was programmed to do." (because Walter said the David series had to be recalled). I'm sure David would be crying too. The Engineer then replies with some interesting wit that only David would understand because he found some of it on Planet 4 when investigating what David did. The Engineer could say something like, "You killed my people and took advantage of our knowledge to leave constant destroy in your wake. You can't even be what you were "born" to do. There is no forgiveness for what you have done."
The Engineer could go on...
"Your just like a fellow Engineer who thought he could take life and death into his own hands. In the end, though David, we killed him too and we're going to do the same with you. You can't escape your creators!" (the Engineers created humans who created robots. So, in a sense, the Engineers are David's creators too.)
Maybe we could get a last shot of the derelict on LV-426 during this Engineer speech and maybe a little visuals on showing how the Engineers killed the rogue Engineer.
