Comments (Page 360)

yea my preference is the DC. canon can be anything really cant it.

ali81 "Ripley says shes gunna help him he stops her and states it 'has eaten too much of me''

That's actually quite a chilling and terrifying proposition. Imagine being strung up (eggmorphing or not) and being gnawed on!  

iv never seen any evidence to support the xeno or protomorph having eyes. the original xeno def didn't as stated by Ridley as it was scarier not having eyes as u didn't know if it could see u or not. its well known that the front of their skull has eye sockets but that is most likely due to the traits taken from the host and doesn't confirm they physically have eyes. I prefer them not to have eyes but that's just my opinion

before the directors cut of alien, its fair to say that egg morphing was NOT canon 

That is true, and the theatrical cut is still brilliant. However, that DC cut with the short Brett/Dallas/eggmorph scene changed everything big picture wise imo. Whenever I watch, I click on the DC. Actually, it is all canon if you want it to be.

yea id agree that we don't see and there is no mention of Dallas being eaten in the film so id discount my earlier comment. a DC supersedes the original imo.

If we're talking Alien only....Probably Kane....which is weird because I share the name. But if it had been me, I would most definitely have been on that Derelict expedition. Not because Im a gun-ho cowboy, but because I wouldnt have been able to sit idly by on the Nostromo while others were out there.

Also he seemed like a reliable and responsible kind of fella and a good supportive Second-in-charge. 

For Alien, I would go with the DC, but the part you mentioned from the script with Dallas being partially eaten- that is hard to take imo. I like to go with DC or extended cuts since that is what most see. It is solid canon. However, novels and such certainly seem in play as well for those whom dwell deeper. Getting back to the OP, I would say that the Xeno was a carnivore and not vampiritic  in its feeding habits- per the movies.  

u could then look at planet 4 being a refuge for the survivors from the war?

very true. many have the theory of an elder higher power who appear in the deleted scenes at the beginning of Prometheus. possibly the engineers are this slave labour? would give reasoning behind any uprising

great question dk. we seem to quote certain aspects of the production process to give weight to any point we make, myself included, but id say we should go by what we see on screen unless something is later shown in say a directors cut. before the directors cut of alien, its fair to say that egg morphing was NOT canon even though it appears in both starbeast and the script for alien. plus u have to consider the many people who havnt read the script and have only seen the film. this goes for the movie novels aswell. its the film that takes priority as in the AC novel, Daniels doesn't know its David at the end but the film clearly shows she knows. so the film is right on this occasion as not everyone who has seen the film will have read the novel. in starbeast and the early draft of alien, the xeno gets stuck in the escape pod door when the crew try to lure it in there yet this doesn't take place in the movie so again, the movie takes priority. long way to answer the question I know lol

Another thing to consider with building murals, heads and (pyramids on our planet) is that it would likely require slave labor and thus an elite and lower class system...

Do we go by scripts or the actual cuts? Both are interesting. Just asking.

we also have to view the possibility that 10-35,000 years ago it may not have been a military facility. look at the mural and the giant heads. they would suggest a place of history and worship and wouldn't fit into the design of a military instillation. its part of why I hate where RS is going. one theory I had was it was a gathering point for all the creations by the elders once the creation had become technologically advanced enough to meet their makers but at some point in history there was an uprising. the elders were over thrown by the engineers and forced off lv223 and the engineers turned the facility into a military base to wipe out certain elder creations for the very reason Yanik states. these events lead to a civil war within the engineer civilisation and the rebel engineers are attacked by those loyal to the elders and thus we get the events regarding the facility and the derelict.

the original script for alien also states that the xeno had indeed eaten part of Dallas when Ripley says shes gna help him he stops her and states it 'has eaten too much of me'. we also see in AVPR, though those films can be taken with a pinch of salt, the xeno eating next to the pool before the predator rams its spear through the back of its head.

id say more Ash but more due to the way he looks at things. as humans we have a very bias perspective on life in regards to mankind and our place in the world. Ash can appreciate the xeno lifeform and its natural simplicity and that there is probably more to life than just the human race. I can see,as Ash can, that mankind is very flawed and that an aggressive species with just the instinct to prolong the existence of its kind above all else, which id say mankind no long follows, would be an extremely hard species to eradicate and could ultimately prevail where mankind, clouded by so many distractions of his own making, could very well fade away. even on earth species like the worm, ant, termite etc will most likely outlive mankind for these very reasons.

RENMATRIX Interesting observation. Perhaps you could pose another thread asking whether one would imagine preferring being human or android- lots of possibilities! Upvoted.

I think its the complete opposite, I don't think David has ever craved to be human. he sees himself as perfect and superior and views man as a dying species with synthetics such himself being the next dominant race. he decided his path in a matter of seconds after being activated that he hated mankind

IRaptus Too cute. But sometimes you have to Kill the Rabbit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLeOtRf6_1g

the fact that the Nostromo is the first vessel to explore the signal may come down to a couple of factors. how many of the ships making the journey that may have picked up the signal were controlled/ contracted to Weyland? they may well have picked up the signal but the company have programmed the ships computer to keep any unidentifiable signals a secret from the crew. also, the nostromo may just have been the first opportunity the company had to get a synthetic, custom built/ programmed for such a mission onboard a vessel that would be going anywhere near the system. in the weyland files, it is evident that the real prize, to weyland at least, is on lv426 but at greater risk but I def believe from the transmissions being made by David while the Prometheus crew sleeps means that if they got a transmission back, im sure David would have had the authority from weyland to change course for lv426. not much the crew couldv done about it.

another thought though about transmissions. Shaw sends out her own warning that lv223 is dangerous and to be avoided but what happens to it? obviously when alien was made no thought was given to sequels/ prequels but now it is part of the alien timeline. given that lv223 and lv426 orbit the same gas giant, will they have the signal turned off to explain why it wasn't picked up by the nostromo? or will it just be another thing like the surviving neomorph that wer just to 'forget exists'?

I found this on Youtube. Pretty cool

I need to include the Godzilla folks too. Let it out Scifi!

Same here ali81 and thank you daliens.

Advent

I can only assume that Mother/AI knows Planet 4's address (below) after the continued link shown in Advent cuponator3000. Great point regarding Thedus chli and wonderful overall topic.

CASE FILE ADVENT - COVENANT TRANSMISSION LOGS d.8

D964ZB

Outpost Coordinate Relay

Signal boost Gliese 581g.02/delay modification

Origin: Covenant Colonization vessel

RA 3h 17m 8.0s | Dec -62° 37′ 41.1″

Bounce Trajectory Amplification Source KG-348

>>> HD 10180 designate HEX-5

>>> Nu Octantis designate X-1, LV-138

>>> Plutonian Outpost H-3

Processed: Suborbital Research Platform J

Secured: WY-Kyoto

Weyland Yutani Protocol Sequence Initiated

It is hard to decipher the context of the Advent message in (early 2100s) but my interpretation was that the name signified an event, an arrival of a god.

Certainly not the Christian God and the sacrifice of Christ (the first coming) cited above but a god Peter Weyland believed he could create by harnessing all of man's works and knowledge (pride). All of these works and knowledge would be used in creating a vessel he could reside in, David.

This did not work out. It never has. David knew it when he woke up for the first time and asked his "father" what he was to do once his father would inevitably die (how presumptuous of David it was to think Peter would not cure death, get me tea).

Alien: Engineers (Script by Jon Spaihts, beginning page 11, names reconciled to Prometheus)

Peter Weyland (CONT’D)

You know how I got this rich? I ask myself: what does God spend his time doing? And I go and do that. Dr. Elizabeth Shaw laughs incredulously. Stifles it. Weyland’s not joking. 

Peter Weyland (CONT’D) Biotechnology was good to me. Fusion power. Lately doing well with gravity systems. He swivels his chair toward the window. Earth shines outside. 

Peter Weyland (CONT’D)

But what’s the first thing God did? 

Dr. Elizabeth Shaw

He made the Heaven and the Earth. 

Weyland jabs a finger at her like she’s won a carnival prize. 

Peter Weyland

That’s what I’m talking about. You left out my favorite part. The piece about Earth. David. 

David

For eons, Earth’s climate swung from hothouse to ice age. Explosions of life, then mass extinctions. But twelve thousand years ago the swings stopped. The Holocene Epoch began - a period of anomalous tranquility. The rise of civilization began only then. Holloway and Watts stare at DAVID with new appreciation. 

Dr. Charlie Holloway 

That’s right. 

Dr. Elizabeth Shaw

And that change coincides with a visit by the Engineers. They didn’t just change us. They changed our world. 

Peter Weyland

That’s the piece I mean.

Engineering Earth. God stuff. 

The vessel, David, now appears to be instrumental in the "second coming" of something the Engineers lost to timidity, the xenomorph. I believe that is the context of the title Advent. The first coming in the context of the Engineers would be the xenomorph shown on the Prometheus mural in this scenario.

In David's notes above, the xenomorph is described as "xenomorph as glorious synthesis and poetic culmination of the species."

Isn't that what David is to the humans?

David is a synthesis of the culmination of knowledge gained by the works of humanity. Peter Weyland acquired most if not all the best of humanity's knowledge and technology and harnessed it to produce David in order to reach the stars to attempt his goal.

The culmination of the Engineer species is the virus/xenomorph (above notes) and it was locked away in urns because they became timid.

This, to me, AI angle gives depth to the xenomorph story but it is a bore to others. I guess you can pass through any museum on this planet, look over the best works of art framed and hung on the walls, and still hear complaints.

Xenomorph as a Weapon, Experimental Trials on Planet 4, and A Notable Event (Advent)

In Alien: Sea of Sorrows (nearly four hundred of years later after Advent) Andrea Rollins refers to the colonists and administrators of a planet she is responding to as "test subjects" in regards to a xenomorph nest discovery, a crashed ship, and a buried city.

Is this Planet 4? I don't know yet but I bet Mother has known the whole time.

The test subjects reference does show a continuity at Weyland-Yutani Corporation that puts the xenomorph above all else. The xenomorph is their god as it was to the Engineers before them.

1 Day

2 Days

3 Days

I wish you all a meaningful Easter.

Hi OhioDude and everybody! It's been awhile.

Without getting too deep into this, I have to explain that after seeing Covenant, I was deeply disappointed and didn't want to get immersed in negativity, so I had to take a break.

I loved Prometheus and was hoping for a similar tone, and while Covenant delivered on certain levels, I missed the beefy surrealism of the previous film and kinda gave up.

I found Prometheus to be spectacular, and having a history with and love for the mechanics of film making, I too found the sets to be amazing. The Prometheus ship in particular was fantastic, outside and in, with strong influences from Cobb, Foss, Moebius and Japanese sci if all woven in harmony. You can tell they were going for a vehicle that would translate well into a popular toy, but I have no argument with that.

The interior was a character unto itself, and the lighting was a marvel, especially in the opening with David moving through the space alone. Much of the lighting for those scenes was provided by the set itself, and you can practically taste the ingenuity and straight up fun they had with it. Coupled with Wolski's photography, it all felt like a glorious mythology being built. I was not at all put off by the lack of continuity with the Nostromo.

I was slightly put off by the lack of continuity between the Juggernaut and Derelict, though. I felt like the spookiness of the original was lost, or put aside for practical reasons. I do get the idea put forth that the Derelict was more organic in appearance because it was rotting, that's a great explanation but it wasn't a conclusion one could arrive at easily on their own. And the statues (or Engineer suits, if you like) in the corridor were awkward. However, the shot of the suited Engineer in the Chair with the star maps swirling around was pure gold.

Certain posters here may note that this is the most criticism I've ever offered about Prometheus (Hi Lone!). There are other things one could complain about, but I found the overall effort to be so bold and unique that I don't want to dilute it even for myself!

Sometime soon I'll post my thoughts on Covenant, I didn't hate it and the first 30 minutes had me biting my nails but for me, as soon as I saw the first burster my heart kinda sank.

All the best from Chicago!

You are most welcome chli. So do I.

I think we have heard and seen alot of bonus material that is contradictory at best on this one. Namely, the Peter Weyland Files from the special features for Prometheus. 

The Weyland files (I'm not sure what part whatever) state very clearly and literally that Mr. Weyland and David are aware of the signal on Lv_426. They have it ear marked, but think that Lv_223 has the answers to life and death.

With the way the prequels have taken shape and all the books and behind the scenes stuff, we can't be totally sure what the truth is here. 

That being said, I think that the signal requires one to be searching for it to be found. Weyland was scanning (or whatever) that system for whatever reason and picked it up. I don't really know if anyone just on the way to or from Thedus would really have an opportunity to catch that signal. The Nostromo was sent off course to get the specimen. I don't think that it was a coincidence. Maybe it was when Alien was released, but that has changed. 

Regarding your questions at the end of the post: 

Planet 4 - As far as I know David did not reveal his location to WY in the Advent special feature. I can't remember. It was him trying to reconnect himself to humanity (to destroy it), so he just gave them notes and drawings. I can;t be sure on that though. I wouldn't be surprised if WY knows about Planet 4 in canon. Either way, this is one of the inherent problems with prequels. Introducing new elements (while necessary) almost always leads to the, "Where was [insert noun here] in the originals?" It really grinds my gears!

Lv_223 - Who knows. This goes back to that inheirt problem. I don't know, maybe it was basically in Weyland's personal files or just a really high clearance level kind of thing, so not many people know or are interested in it (for now). 

Origae-6 - Hopefuly we'lll find out in the next movie! If it happens. I had an idea the other day that if WY, the colonists, David, and the Engineers do have a sort of war or battle that either David wipes everyone out and when the company stops hearing from their own, they assume the worst and start to scour the universe for Xenomorphs. So they can learn from, control, cross breed, and break them down to defend themselves aginst David, the Engineers, and whatever else is out there. Or, maybe the Engineers are the ones who wipe everyone out. Maybe David survives and thats one reason WY is hesitant to go back to Origae-6/Planet 4 (fear, unpreparedeness.) Or maybe the two entities will come to an agreement and David's future is to continue learning, improving, and building out in the far reaches of space. 

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Ill just leave this ouroborus here...... ;)

I haven't read the report, but remember an AC teaser where David was telling of his experiments and results apparently to WY? If that is true, maybe they were not searching for him but waiting to hear from him?

Thoughts_Dreams I have mixed feelings about David. AC went away from where I would have liked things to go but was also the mysterious creepiness that was intriguing and was enjoyable. 

The derelict should remain a mystery. Explaining everything about it would likely invite fans arguing why and how the explanation doesn't make sense. Besides, things can never be explained enough for some.

Hopefully the movie will return to the Alien vibe in that there is a small crew, we actually see less gore and if/when characters die those deaths mean something and carry some weight- instead of someone getting clipped in the jaw by a neo tail in a quarter of a second during a fast, chaotic panic scene. Also, some scenes with very little dialog could work. Sometimes showing the environment and exploration can do all the talking by itself.

Rats. I am not seeing it listed over in the States.

joylitt instead of starting a new topic, I thought I would refresh your thread instead :)

This film is now streaming on Netflix (who bought the international distribution rights to the film)

Have you had a chance to watch it yet? 

It is an interesting ride packed full of some interesting and clever themes (without spoiling it).

This is the type of weirdness the Alien franchise needs in my opinion.

Im definitely more convinced now that Garland could do an Alien film. His films have many overlapping themes, styles and nuances that would lend beautifully to the Alien Franchise..and add something different

ignorantGuy

They will banned for being misogynists. XD

Hmmm ... "Female" "dickheads", I wonder how does that work!

Disney's Alien, hm? Too bad drones and queens are already "females" and the baddies. And Marry Sues getn facef... *cough cough* facehugged doesnt fit into the agenda...

daliens Pheewww....Thought I was the only hater!  It truly has been depressing lately.  Toys R Us being liquidated, Fox taken over by Disney.....At least I still have WB and DC :)

ignorantGuy, the hints are mainly in the recent books, namely Alien: Out Of The Shadows and Alien: Sea Of Sorrow.

There are also hints in The Rage War Trilogy. The third race even has a name there Drukathi. But TRWT is a bit tricky because it has Yautja in it. A lot of ppl dislike the idea of Predators being in the Alienverse, personally i don't mind. As long as it is done well. Btw, the aforementioned books are all written under Fox's supervision.

It now depends on what one is willing to consider "canon" because the canon itself is highly debated at times.

daliens

"...Ridley Scott induced the idea of all humans being replicants..." that's a new one for me. On the other hand i usually ignore Ridley-rambles, he changes his mind faster then my neighbor her panties. ;) I rather stick to what is in the movies, books and/or games.

As for LV-223, that place is clearly a "lab" of sorts, to me. Sticking to my idea i could imagine the Engineers being created there. The Alienverse is brimming with megalomaniacs. Maybe the Engineers came to earth after they were created and were like "Behold, we come from the stars *eagerly pointing at the constellation* and created you *wink wink* therefor we are your gods.". Perhaps they were even ordered to do so as caretakers. Or they did it after overthrowing their masters and obtaining their tech. Since words like rebellion and civil war popped up every now and then. Wich would be similar to the Founders before they became the Rage in the Rage War.

"It's an invitation!" is, again, an assumption by Shaw/Holloway. Judging the Engineers reaction in Prom it unlikely was one.

But all of this is speculation based on what ive seen, read and played so far.

Davefried81 I am not excited at all to see what Dismay has in store for the future of alien franchise. I am afraid they can only produce a high tech weaponized silly PG13 blockbuster, put some children and pets in it. I am afraid that if this franchise stays with Dismay, it is the end of it as we knew and loved it.

I think a lot of fans think the same and soon all the good old merchandise, films and books belonging to the franchise will sell out.

Few fanboys however will ingest everything that has xenomorphs and guns and Marvel super heroes in it, so we cannot say the franchise has no future at all, but this franchise is brain dead with Dismay. 

Tiwaz

That's the beauty of alien films by Ridley Scott,  everything seems plausible and we can talk endlessly about them.

In a 2016 tweet Ridley Scott induced the idea of all humans being replicants. Failed replicants searching for their makers, wanting to live forever. Becoming a threat to the makers. There's no wonder the engineers wanted to destroy our home planet.

I don't believe in this case that engineers are younger than humans, but they indeed created the humans.

But why in all those antiquity representations it was LV223 indicated, it was how they found it, isn't it?  Why would the engineers want to tell us about LV223. What was this planet to them? Why should be important to the ancient hominids? Was the human race firstly made there? Was that the engineers' initial home world they had to subsequently abandon after the black goo incident? Was planet 4 chosen as their new home and its seeding was shown at the beginning of Prometheus?

It seems to me that Ridley Scott wanted to tell us a greater story but, following the fanboys complaints,  the xenomorph hijacked it.