Comments (Page 361)

Tiwaz

Can you give me such hints? Only thing which I recall that could qualify is that weird creature with 6 xeno-type fingers that the Engineers are depicted in the murals in Prom. to have tamed (but maybe that is symbolic, and the engineers might have split from the Xeno-thing inside them, hence a connection to the Dark Chrystal as BigDave suggested). And there is Shaw's question of who created them? But maybe nobody.

And where are other artifacts scattered in the movies? I don't recall any, only mid 20's century British factories.

What RS commented about the Prom prologue, I take to mean that the Engineers were doing insemination for eons and on many places, even Earth, so therefore they could not be young. And maybe what we see in Covenant, is there version of a (i've learned my lesson is without the n) Utopia (Paradise), similar to Aldous Huxley's The Island.

But the character which represented our want to know is dead, so probably will never know this. (wasn't all this called by the movie makers as boring, and David the cool thing?)

Thanks for this excellent post dk, i'm going to move it to the correct forum, the Alien one. Thank you for your understanding. :D 

Hints of an older third race are present across the franchise. I believe even Mr. *cough* "I don't give a shit!" *achoo* said something along those lines.

Recently I thought "What if the Engineers are younger than humans?". Maybe im forgetting something but what hints are there in regards of their age as a species apart from Shaw's and Holloway's assumptions. Im sure im missing something. XD ...and embarrass myself again.

Regardless, assuming that mankind is, at least, around for roughly 300k years (wich is a fact btw.) perhaps the third race took some early humans to modify them. That could make the Planet 4 inhabitants an  intermediate step. Like this: Human-»Planet 4-»Engineer wich would explain the obvious differences between the P4-Inhabitants and the Engineers.

Even if this process took 10k yrs 290k is still enough time to trow some shit at the fan.

Of course there's the sacrificial scene in Prom. But as far as im aware it is nowhere stated when it happened and where. I think even Scott himself stated that it not necessarily has to be earth. 

Don’t forget the fiery crucible.

“Tip of the spear, edge of the knife, crack of my ass.”

Lots of truly great moments

RIP

 Bill Paxton : Edge of Tomorrow

Not sure what to expect with Dismay taking over.  I myself have boycotted all Dismay films and products from my life after I worked there and saw the "magic".  Cut throat company that does not care for the employees.  Are any of you excited to see what they may have in store for us die hard fans?

Characters are important if you want to sympathize with them. If he did not care then they made a good job with them anyways. The actors did a good job with the material that they were given, that is a reason why Alien still works today. Alien Covenant is the opposite of Alien in that we do not get a chance to feel something for them since they are so badly set up.

I am like either get good characters or throw the movie away. The plot is important, but not as important as getting characters that we can feel something for.

"I think we need to explore/add another very Lovecraftian and Totally Alien Element to the Franchise."

That would be nice, I am a bit tired of David. Those above the Engineers would be interesting to see.

Yeah we should not have to buy a book to understand the characters, if the movie can not get that right then it is a failure to me.

Both Alien Covenant and Prometheus are underwhelming so I would rather have them waiting until they get a good story. Having said this I am not very interested in a Blomkamp movie. You are correct Lone that there were many years between Prometheus and Covenant but I think that it is common if you look at the years between other Alien movies. What is important to me is that we get a good movie where they have learned from their mistakes, rushing it won't help.

"Seemingly Ridley imagined that David harvested Shaw's human eggs and using the black goo somehow was able to evolve them into the first Xenomorph eggs. Another disappointing aspect of Covenant."

Boring, I hope that does not happen to be the case so that becomes the official version. It seems that Scott only makes the alienverse worse when he is trying to interfere with the story. Leave that up to someone else that is not fixated with the androids.

David this David that, F it

There are many different ways that I can imagine that would be a lot better than the David thing.

"… as id much rather have it that David has nothing at all to do with the creation of the xeno"

I totally agree

Hopefully they will get another race to be the SJ, that could save the issue about scale if they make the SJ bigger. It depends on how big they think that the issue is.

It is alright if David made his own version of the Xeno but it would be ridiculous if he did the original monster. Screw that if that is what they decide (David as the creator), to me it would make the prequels the biggest failure of the alien movies if you look at what kind of conclusion that they come up with. To me I would probably just sigh and throw even Prometheus away, I mean Covenant is bad enough as it is. Unfortunately I am also worried that the next one will be crap and I am not too confident that Scott will make a good movie since he wants to focus a lot on David, which is not my interest at all.

Nope, I can not get interested in the themes if I do not care about the story or the characters.

It gave the most important things away and the music was wrong. The sound in the original was more like classical music while this was more like some rock or what ever. Do you agree with this Lone? Classical music seems to fit better with the mood that we are supposed to get from horror movies, it works better for me at least. The original was better in the way that it did not show a lot of what would happen.

That is something that I haven't watched but I would rather watch more short movies with Weaver rather than Alien 5. I would rather get new and interesting movies rather than a Predator 6 (I do not know how many Predator movies there are but you get the point), Lethal weapon 5, and so on.

It seems that he has some problems with the Cameron version of the Xeno. Maybe that meas that he feels that he could have handled it better than Cameron if he would have done the sequel.

37 seven hours of film seems interesting. I guess that there is a lot of extra material that could be interesting to watch if that is what he means but then he has said that he often get things to on the first take so I am not sure.

@ Ingeniero: That might be interesting for those that care about the David story but to me I just don't care about his fluting or some instrument extras. I don't consider those that care about the AI thing to be idiots I simply see that we have different interests about this franchise. To me that is just overkill so I will pass to read about that.

You mean like the ships and so on? They definitely got that right but that seems to be something that Ridley Scott is good at, the visuals. Both Covenant and Prometheus got these things right so that was good. We will probably see things like that as far as the quality is concerned if they make a third movie, there are other things that I question.

They should give us a longer cut of Prometheus that explain some stupid things like the cuddling with the space snake for example. If there are things that are stupid then at least give us a reason why these things are happening.

Ali81: That is understandable, it was too much about David. The next one will probably be good visually but I expect nothing as far as the characters are concerned although I hope that they will be better.

Hopefully they will keep some mystery about the derelict, that would be nice.

Thanks, Ingeniero! Looking forward to reading it!

Speaking of Nostromo, the book (by Joseph Conrad) is set in a place called Sulaco. And the escape vessel in Alien is called Narcissus, from another Joseph Conrad book.

id say the tail actually makes sense. being 'evolved' from primates we have a tail bone. the use of our tail, going by evolution, has been diminished so over the millennia, we have lost our tail completely as we no long require it. but the bone is there and possibly the remnant genetic markers so the fact the xeno has a tail would make sense, even if the original form didn't have one

lance comes in a close second but a shame none of the things victims tangled with the others or they would be the ultimate king lol

awe man, hard to pick which one. id go...

1- golf ball chucking at the Yautja coz its, well, a golf ball haha

2- express elevator to hell, going down coz hes the ultimate badass

3- sweet chin music coz Arnie was in his birthday suit n it wasn't far away from being sweet ass music

 Lance will get his due when the time comes although I hate the thought. There is also Pumpkin Head to add to that pile.

That is a fair call, I won't argue lol XD 

So which do we rate as his finest death scene. 

a. Going down on the express elevator to hell against a Xeno horde

b. Backed to the wall chucking golf-balls at a Yautja on a train

c. Copping some sweet chin music by a nude T800 

I don't rate the victims of either AVP movie as significant lol Mr Paxton is the elite of the elite victims lol

ali81 lol that is some pretty impressive bragging rights!!!

The Trifecta of iconic Sci-fi franchises right there :) 

But there is another....

Though you do have to acknowledge AVP in the mix. So Bill wins on pedigree lol XD

Nice tribute dk 

yea ud expect with the level of technology the engineers had they would have had theyr border control in orbit. but its thought that the planet is hidden so they maybe felt this was enough. I wonder what measures if any were in place if an unidentified vessel approached the planet.

only man to have been killed by the terminator, predator and the xeno.

'door swings both ways my ass'

RIP

to me the mural and frescos from Prometheus aren't on the same level of as the derelict scene. I accept its most likely due to nostalgia but its what the derelict represents. totally alien life out there existing for millions of years and wev stumbled into the middle of something we don't understand nor can we comprehend it. the murals, to me, show that the engineer species has integrated this other species into its life cycle and it is not seen as a threat but more a saviour, something to be worshipped as it may, as some have theorised, have become the only method of reproduction for the engineer race or they see it as a transformation into a more perfect being. the derelict scene offers so much more broad scope on alien existence imo. we could have seen endless possibilities of flashbacks on how it got there limited only by imagination (and obviously funding) but its gna be brought down to 'a synthetic Attila the Hun' did it and its not that alien???????? for me its a cop out. its robbed me of the amazing things we could have seen especially when in Prometheus its clear the train of thought was the derelict and the events on the lv223 facility are connected. its only my opinion but I feel its a valid one and one shared by many.

iv always like the idea of AI secretly being in control of the company and using it to usurp mankind, using humans to gain access to the perfect weapon. im sure someone may have figured out that synthetics are undetectable to the xeno and so left unharmed but the company keeps this information hidden. I see the synthetics believing the xeno is the perfect creature to be used to eradicate humanity as we are theyr biggest threat. whoever created us, it is clear we are the same being as the engineer and are therefor destined to follow in theyr footsteps

They have their uses LOL

Much like we Humans have for certain Bacteria lol

It certainly is something that i feel has displeased most fans (David Creator) but it fits perfectly with the kind of Philosophy that Prometheus had started.  Creation, Rebellion. Sub-Creation and Punishment.

It fits with a Tale of Hubris, with a message that Playing God and Creating Life, could be a Mistake in Hindsight, due to Creation not pleasing the Creator or performing/behaving in ways intended and seeing the Creation become displeased with its creator and rebel and then wish to pursue its own Sub-Creation..   Then REPEAT

As interesting on ONE Hand that may seem, we have the OTHER Hand which was the Engineers are responsible which Prometheus seemed to hint at... but NEITHER of these seem to be as Enigmatic, Mysterious and Alien as the Space Jockey/Derelict.

The Space Jockey Scene is still more Awe-Inspiring than the Suited Engineers, while we have a size difference  13-15ft vs now 7-8ft Engineers, Aesthetically the Juggernaught was just not as HR Giger Bio-Mechanical as the Derelict... it was LESS Organic.

Maybe these could be addressed by introducing another Race/Faction but it could now have to be just a Oversight.

I will add that EVEN IF they stick to the Path that without Davids input there would be NO Xenomorph in Alien, thus David is the Creator of the Protomorph at least.

Prometheus/Alien Covenant still show us the Engineers had encountered/Re-Engineered or maybe Created something similar to the Deacon/Xenomorph many THOUSANDS of Years ago.

So even if we have to Accept David as the Creator, then we have to remember the Xenomorph is really only ONE Variant of the Morb and the Engineers have had dealings and no doubt there had many many other versions in the Distant Past.   And also this means many more versions for the Future.

We still have the Mystery of the Mural and Frescos from Promethues, this may now just be our NEW Space Jockey Equivalent Mystery.

"the possibility that Weyland-Yutani's motives may be driven towards protecting mankind from unknown threat(s)... rather than just nefarious weapon's research evilness lol"

This is something i had never considered before... even after Prometheus, but when looking at Alien Covenant... we can be sure any Returning Engineers would not be too pleased with seeing whats happened.

And what happened on Planet 4 is  Direct Consequence of the Engineers, First Creating/Evolving us, Second visiting us and leaving the Star Maps and Finally not ensuring LV-223 was disposed of.

If they had taken care of any of the above, then those Engineers would be alive as of the year 2104, especially if The Final and First Points were taken care of.

So those Engineers will be pissed off, maybe they would want to GET RID of Mankind now..  And so when looking at this, then having the Company Peruse the Xenomorph as Defense against the Engineers and other Races seems plausible.

I am still being drawn to the Company being run by AI, without Mankind being aware of it and the Xenomorph is a Weapon they intended to harness to help them Eradicate Humans.

BigDave What an optimist lol! Sometimes a good thread gets revisited unwittingly from a spammer bump. 

Nice to see the Spam gone, but also nice to see the thread bumped by more Spam ;)

I can now give this Topic a Proper Reply...

There is a bit of Mystery regarding this Docking Ship, those working on the Ship had actually said it was the Engineers Equivalent of Border Control and you really have to Question the Engineers Safeguards against any potential Hazards once again.

A Border Enforcement Docking Ship that intercepts the incoming Juggernaught just as it is about to arrive above the Opening Hanger is a bit of a Flawed Safe-Guard we must say.

Your point ATI i can see a valid side to it, because the area the ship arrives at (Juggernaught) has a Surface that just seems odd for a dock, but then the Juggernaughts Ramps in Prometheus that connect to the Entrance are only small in relation to the Ship, but even so  it appears the Surface of the Juggernaught and Surface of the Docking Ship DO-NOT appear to be ideal Merging Surfaces for a Good Connection/Docking Point.

Before the Prologue came out and when we had the Images of the Juggernaught near by the Docking Ship, i would never had imagined the Docking Point to be what it was shown in The Crossing

I feel also those Holes on the Docking Ship are likely NOT where it would Dock Either, The sound effects for the Scene appear to make a Shunt Sound prior to the Sounds of the Cargo Bay opening up, this Shunt sound could be the Juggernaught Docking, or just bumping off the Docking Ship.

It really is a Security Problem if the Docking Ship has no way to Prevent the Cargo Hold to open up, this really is a error of judgement/precaution and protocols for their Race.  (you can almost see why things went SOUTH at LV-223).

Regarding the Cargo Hold Hole... there is NO such Holes in Prometheus and its safe to thus assume the Bottom of the Ship somehow Transforms (maybe not right word) but i mean it appears a Hole can appear where there was NONE and then close up again to reveal no signs of where the Cargo Hole was.

I am going to assume the Docking in similar in that a Hole Appears in both ships where there are no visible holes until required.

IRaptus Prometheus was in 3D?!

 Now I feel insecure lol! It was in 3D although I didn't see it in that format. I didn't really care for it, but that would be a movie worth seeing in 3D. I heard AC was intended for 3D but RS basically said Fu$k it.

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Prometheus was in 3D?!

Not a film that would've suited it IMO. More of a panoramic cinematic than a 3D oriented film.

Alien Covenant would have been more suited to 3D than Prometheus.....especially that end sequence with the Proto being blown out the airlock with glass flying around, and the Neomorph attacks in the field!   

I have locked this thread because it has deviated excessively from the original intention of highlighting the film Call Me By Your Name's commendable dedication to the late Bill Paxton, an Iconic actor in the Alien and Predator franchises respectively. 

For those interested in discussing the actual film in further detail I recommend starting a new thread in the Other Fandom's section of Scifed.

This forum is reserved for Alien: Covenant and ALIEN franchise related topics.

Great presentation video, Ingeniero

love those books and cant wait for the cold forge

shouldn't HAVE to buy and read a book to add depth to any movie character. it should be there in the film imo

cuponator3000 thanks :) 

I remember we were discussing on here awhile back (maybe even before Covenant was released?) the possibility that Weyland-Yutani's motives may be driven towards protecting mankind from unknown threat(s)... rather than just nefarious weapon's research evilness lol. 

I love your angle in regards to David/Engineer though. Wow. that could lead an epic build up post Alien-3 and make David a true Antagonist, not just a malfunctioning whack-job. XD

YES Tiwaz Yes!

 

I saw one IMAX movie and it was a documentary about the Serengeti narrated by Darth Vader :D back in 1995. It was incredible. Sadly, the IMAX has dwindled into lagging support where I live and the building has been repurposed for something else. 3D IMAX - that would have to be a very special movie. It would be the kind of thing to plan for, get dressed up, have a nice meal etc- an event.