Comments (Page 364)
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Not sure if i am repeating myself here.... Too lazy to read if i have posted this here.. ;)
Alien was a Enigma, the Cargo not explored or explained, until RS latter had said this was a Egg Cargo the Space Jockey was carrying as a Weapon of War.
At the point of Alien we simply had the EGG Cargo... it was not explained how it got there.... ALIENS came along with the Queen and we was like.. ok so a Queen laid the Eggs right?
However during Alien production HR Giger had envisioned that the Egg Chamber Actually Produced the Eggs, via Pregnant Bio-Mechanical Belly like Apparatus.
At the time of after Aliens we simply had the Cargo of Eggs with no real explanation, but it was likely one of these.
1) The Ship Produces the Eggs and somehow they end up in Rows like that.
2) Some place else Produces the Eggs or they are Engineered some how and they are transported to the Cargo Hold.
3) A Queen or similar Lays them and they are Transported to the Cargo Hold.
4) A Queen or similar Lays them after it chest bursts from the Space Jockey.
Along came Prometheus and after RS had mentioned that something in the Cargo Hold had Evolved, and it got to the Space Jockey... this could imply the Cargo had Evolved, as in maybe those Urns Evolved into Eggs or indeed that something in those Urns had Evolved and then Created/Laid the Eggs.
At this point RS confirmed the Space Jockey Event happened a within a few hundred years of the LV-223 Outbreak, so we are talking Few Hundred Years Prior or After.... Prometheus had clues to suggest likely after.
But Alien Covenant came along and throws that Curve-ball that if this David creator is the path they are taking then there was NO Derelict on LV-426 (at least NO Eggs) by the time of the year 2105, and with the Covenant not due to reach Origae-6 until the year 2112 we can maybe Assume that 10 years prior to ALIEN there was no Derelict on LV-426
Thus what ever transpires in the planned sequel to Alien Covenant, would leave us with some events in a 10 year period to get Davids Creations, Evolved a bit more and on a Engineer Ship within under 10 years.
So the 2112-2122 Ball Park is when the Space Jockey event happens... if they are going the David creates the First Xenomorph route.
Certainly think similar to what happened to those Engineers could have happened on LV-223 too, but i dont quite see such a large scale Bombardment kind of outbreak... I think however Black Goo had infected those Engineers some how... and the results would certainly be the Black Goo erupting out of the Engineers...
But the LV-223 Engineers Corpses appear Hollow, apart from the Head and so that Ampoule Room when preserved (prior to Human contaminating the Atmosphere) must put a halt to the Black Goo infection. The Engineers who never made it, appear to having nothing left of them and so broken down like the Sacrificial Engineer.
Yet Planet 4 Engineers all ended up (most of them) as them Mummified Corpses... but i put TWO explanations for this on another thread today.
The Black Goo is a complex thing, when it was at its basis Simple, if they stuck with Prometheus and Alien Engineers...
The likely explantion for the Spores, i feel is the crashed Juggernaught had leaked some Cargo of Urns into the Water Supply that we see falling inside the Ship and under it, it appears the Ship has Crashed into the Mountain that may have a Stream running down it, hence Water in the Entrance and Water coming down inside too.
Near the Water in time we could get Mold/Spores that are Organic and the Black Goo would surely Evolve them into something that is related to the Xeno-Virus Traits turning those Spores into a Method to pass on a related Infection.... Essentially yes making the Spores like Eggs and the Motes like the Face Hugger.
I certainly hope we will get either a Separate Race or a Related but Larger Humanoid Race to be the Space Jockey, even if we see 10ft beings as at the moment the 7.5ft Engineers certainly are a inconstancy with the Space Jockey Size... but alas this could be kept as just a Oversight.
The Whole Time Travel Aspect i think should be avoided, if the Engineers or other Race above them can Traverse Time, then why not Undo what they have done... or go to the Future see whats going down and then go back in the past to UNDO anything they are not pleased or feel threatened with.
HOWEVER... i have proposed before a Time Travel Element, that would fit...
LV-223 is a big in-continuity in the Franchise.. unless we see RS remove Aliens on-wards from Canon.. LV-223 is more Reward for the Company than the Trivial Pursuit of the Xenomorph on LV-426. IDEALLY we need LV-223 to be eradicated from existance either prior to Alien in 2122 or certainly shortly after..
The Engineers or their creators, would certainly after the events of Alien Covenant, have great concerns about LV-223, you would see their options would be to Destroy Mankind... then maybe consider Destroying LV-223.
I think if a Engineer or Related Ship went to LV-223, with the Eggs or they Engineered them on LV-223 after the events of Alien Covenant.. these Engineers etc then Destroy LV-223 as they are leaving or LV-223 is destroyed some other way.
And DESTROYED in such a Manner that the Event/Force Tears a Hole in Time and Space that drags the Derelict into it, so that it disappears from near LV-223 in the year say 2115-2120 and is tossed through the TEMPOARY Tear in Space and Time and appears in the same location but Thousands of Years prior..
This ^^^ for me would be the best case scenario to Kill TWO Birds with ONE Stone.
Ramblings of Man overworked and on the Booze ;)
Bless Him ;)
To be fair some interesting things, and Ridley Scott does not mince his words, straight to the point and speaks his mind and you have to take your hat off to him for that.
Reading into the Queen/Ants comment i think its him having a bit of Banter with Cameron.... however if we get the impression and take it too literally that the Queen and Ants/Hive ideas are something he is not a FAN of, and certainly not what he would have intended.
Then we have to wonder what concoction he has in mind for the Thousands of Eggs, i cant see him having the Colonist all Egg Morphed. But you cant help wondering if RS has some more bizarre, disturbing method of creating thousands of Eggs.
Regarding the Hive Mind... i would say this fits more with a AI actually, as in Aliens you could get the impression the Xenomorph Colony was working as ONE Hive Mind, for a Greater Cause. If RS goes the more AI route with the Xenomorph, then some kind of Communication between a collection of Xenomorph Nodes would not be far off the Aliens Hive Mind.
Ant Bashing aside, the Neomorph and Xenomorph in Alien Covenant are simply shown as Aggressive Parasitic Organisms intend on merely hunting down its prey/victims. No other objective apart from seek and destroy.
which is what Alien shows us too, its only the DC version with the Egg Morph that really gets us to take a different look at Alien and the Xenomorph Agenda/Objective..... and also the ideas RS had but never used as far as the Xenomorph killing Ripley and then faking the voice of Crew Members to Lure in a Trap for any rescuers.
Sadly either of these kinds of Psychological Traits/Objectives are not seen in Alien Covenants Xenomorph... it really is a case of placing a few Fire Ants in a dish with some normal ants or other small insects and then watch as the Fire Ants simply attack and kill the other insects.
The Replicants remark is interesting too..
Maybe RS will throw a Curveball in that actually a lot of Humans are not Humans at all, but are AI as in Replicants but they are not aware of it... so quite a lot similar with the Matrix where we are controlled by AI that we created, that now rules over us and we live out our lives not knowing its a Matrix... But with RS comments it could appear that many Humans may not know they are a Replicant too... Maybe a Curveball that these are created by Synthetics?
This would match RS comments about the next movie is more AI than Xenomorph.
I think there is still a lot of ambiguity in regards to the Black Goo, there really is NO concrete evidence that can rule in favor of one theory or the other, indeed the Weyland File and Alien Covenant appear to point us to something, but in doing so contradicts what Prometheus showed.
Jon Spaights Alien Engineers was the Original Concept, the Nano-Scarabs are in essence the Goo.... Sadly they keep changing how it works as they go along and makes for some pretty contradicting elements.
Ones which we can only try and come up with a few explanations... The Bombardment Scene is a good example, the effects seem different to Prometheus, however we could maybe confirm the effect could be similar to what happened to those Engineers on LV-223, which matches the Theory i had years ago... The Bombardment Scene kind of fits with what i interpreted as far as LV-223 Dead Engineers, but i think those Engineers maybe were not infected large scale like the Bombardment Scene, i suspect they was infected with smaller amounts that was Spiked/contaminated in something to get into those Engineers... likely as a result of Sabotage.
I have tried to come up with reasons to explain the Bombardment Scene effects, which lead me to mainly TWO conclusions.
1) The Weapon we see used here is how it was intended, it was Primed and Activated by its Weapon Deployment System and in effect acted like a Dropped Nuclear Weapon. Disintegration etc at the Point of Impact, and at a greater Radius lesser effects similar to how Radioactive Fall Out can Mutate Organic Genes/Cause Mutation.
Thus the UN-activated/NON-Deployed Cargo in Prometheus would be like Humans coming across a Atomic Bomb (None Deployed/Exploded) and Exposing themselves to the Radioactive Elements inside.
2) The Bombardment was starting to have a effect on the Environment but the Engineers attempted to launch some kind of Quarantine/Fail-safe Protocol that unleashed some kind of Energy Weapon that would basically FRY or Destroy all Organic Material within a certain Radius, thus turning the Engineers into those Mummified Remains and Preventing the Local Spread of the Pathogen.
There is of-course a few holes to this one.... but then there are holes to a lot of things in Alien Covenant. Especially when we are given the TRUE explanation of things, which is just lame..... and i mean how the Black Goo Worked and how David got his Hosts for the Experiments..
Totally unimaginative and well lazy, compared to a more realistic theory that i proposed... THAT Does-Not Contradict anything.
I will add the extras as far as Engineer Scenes, and those that are not on the extras but images are online regarding them... do paint a much different picture to the Engineers Agenda and Purpose.
Rather than the Theatrical Cut, which just shows us a Engineer gets awoken, he is in a foul mood and then goes Postal on the Crew. Latter after the Crash he is again Angry and goes Postal on Dr Shaw.
The FULL Scenes (which we still dont have in their entirety) paint a much much different picture. A picture that could push us to consider this Engineer Actually was the reason Humans are alive by the year 2093..... Detailed Schematics of the Juggernaught Set used by Set Designers/Production also confirm this, as the Engineers Cryo-Pod is labeled HERO CHAMBER so our Prometheus Engineer actually may have felt there was NO need for our Destruction and Potentially Sabotaged the Outpost/Mission... Only to be awoken and witness Weylands Actions and Cruel/Selfish Intentions and then this Engineer realizes actually the FEAR the Engineers had for Mankind and our Rebellious Ways are actually true and in hindsight the Mission to Destroy us should have been allowed to happen... And so off he goes to carry out the Destruction that maybe he prevented 2000 years prior.
There was a more longer Sacrificial Engineer Prologue Scene, the Engineer we see who drinks from that Cup of Goo, was handed this Cup by a Elder Engineer, there was a Total of 8 Elders in this Scene, 4 of them in the distance.
This scene in a cut down version is on the DVD/Blu-Ray Extras, there has not been the complete scene released anywhere though, there are a few other scenes in Prometheus that got cut with the Engineers that also are not on any of the Extras... but stills from these scenes are online.
I love it! I like the very primal, messy mouth slick with blood.
I hate the overly clean CGI that a lot of modern xenomorph designs have, everything in pristine well defined light. The xenomorph should be organic, dirty and shaded in darkness always.
Yeah, gives practically everything away. I don't like the music either.
Now compare it with one of the original trailers, with the ultra creepy music. Still gives me goosebumps!
I like the more transparent look- sort of how Giger's original was supposed to be.
From the text of the original article:
'In Alien: Covenant, its airborne form can create Neomorphs directly inside a living host, completely bypassing any egg or facehugger stage.'
That is not true!
The killer spore pod (mutated from fungus) itself is the egg stage, and the insect-like mots attacking a host/flying in the air equal to the facehugger stage in this case.
The process in Alien Covenant:
Mutagenic pathogen (black goo/virus) --> host (fungus) --> hybridized creature (insect-like motes in pods) --> host again (Ledward) --> xenomorph-like hybridized creature (the Neomorph)
Great video, Ingeniero.
'What i mean is it appears the Black Goo in this video seems to intelligently seek out the Targets and then maybe Multiplies inside them before forming together to try and escape and seek out the next target. Its like the Virus/Pathogen has some Inteligence behind it where the maybe millions of nano particles or elements of this pathogen, will form together to make those like Tentacle Shapes.' - by BigDave
You see the same scenes in Alien Covenant. The black goo enters the bodies, then parasite clusters exit the bodies...
The process:
Mutagenic pathogen (black goo) --> Host --> Hybridized creatures are produced (trilobites, insect-like motes in pods, parasites) --> Host again --> Xenomorph-like hybridized creatures are produced (deacon, neomorph)
Alien Covenant:
Mutagenic pathogen (black goo) --> host (Planet 4 Engineers) --> hybridized creature (parasites bursting from the dying Engineers) --> host again (not revealed in the movie) --> xenomorph-like hybridized creature (not revealed in the movie)
Alien (1979):
/Mutagenic pathogen --> host(s): segment of the process controlled by the Engineers or David 8/ --> hybridized creature (facehugger in the alien egg) --> host again (Kane) --> xenomorph-like hybridized creature (the 1979 Xenomorph)
'we see the Engineer bodies are implied to have suffered from a mixture of Chest Buster Wounds/Holes and then Wounds caused by Xenomorph related Organisms.' - by BigDave
I think the goo urn bombing scene in Alien Covenant shows and explains what happened to the LV-223 Engineers. They suffered from the exiting parasites looking very similar to the black goo.
'If David's work doesn't get tied to LV426 then the sj would have to be a separate story. Maybe you could tie it to the outbreak on LV223 but there's too much time in-between events according to RS. I think it would make more sense to make the sj a separate race related to the Engineers, a sister race if you will, that developed the xeno bio technology on their own.' - by Theseus
As for the SJ, I think every fan would like to see a new race in the AC sequel, 'a separate race' with less human facial appearance.
'To tie David's work to Alien might require the space jockey to visit the Engineer's world after David had left with the Covenant, collect the data, maybe re-vive Walter to get info, re-create the eggs, leave the planet for an LV moon, hits a wormhole and travels back in time 1800 years but arrives in the wrong sector of space and headed toward the wrong moon, discovers a facehugger is at large in the ship but it's too late as the facehugger surprises the space jockey, impregnates him and kills him forcing the crash on LV426.' - by Theseus
Last year I had a similar idea with David jumping back in time but your idea with the Space Jockey is a much better one.
What Elders were in Prometheus?
"As for genetic memory, Ripley demonstrated having it during Resurrection several times"
I must also agree with that statement and so perhaps the Xeno-DNA does have a way of passing on instincts/memories of its previous generations, while also possessing memories from its host, its totally plausible.
I guess this would be kind of what a Alien Trailer would be like if the movie was made in recent years, i agree it would give too much away.
This kind of reminds me a bit like the Final Evolution in the Movie Lucy (2014) well the part where she turns into that Black Substance.
What i mean is it appears the Black Goo in this video seems to intelligently seek out the Targets and then maybe Multiplies inside them before forming together to try and escape and seek out the next target.
Its like the Virus/Pathogen has some Inteligence behind it where the maybe millions of nano particles or elements of this pathogen, will form together to make those like Tentacle Shapes.
While that is interesting, it does seem to over complicate what was at its basis a more Simple Creation Tool.
I think maybe we could see some Never before seen Concepts, i have to say that Render of the alternative Protomorph looks great. Just a shame that to pull this off would have required Top Class CGI and a larger Budget.
I also wonder if we get any other news on Alien Day, but i am not holding out for much, i think if we dont get any News on the Progress of another Alien movie by Alien Day next year, we could consider the Project in a State of Limbo....
If Disney have plans to do another Alien movie within the next 2-5 years then next years Alien Day would be the place to Market it to the Public.
Not heard about that Movie, until i just checked, is it the one with Natalie Portman?
seems interesting i will have to watch it some time, not sure its released in UK yet though.
Indeed Visually Prometheus was wonderful, the Engineers looked intriguing even the Elders. There was also a nice use of CGI/Gloss to add that few details to the Engineers Appearance, that Sadly we never got to see in Alien Covenant.
Just shows that a little lighting and touch up goes a long way.
A 4K release of the original would have been a better news.. Is it just me but the neck does not seem right, as it connects to the front of the skull. Wouldn't this thing had a severe case of hernya?
Agree with dk. This new clip highlights everything wrong with modern trailers. It is a just a "best bits" clip that spoon feeds you the premise before you see it.
Rather than something compelling and captivating that makes you think "I must see that film now to see what this is about!"
I prefer the original, I find it more intense without giving away too much, except for the terror and the hostile environment.
It is good though they at least did something new, like an anticipation for the next film. It would be perfect if we'd be hit one day with a new teaser, out of nowhere.
C'mon Disney, people are waiting!
A3 had a good trailer. AR gave up a bit more but not the movie story- I can give it a pass considering that movie was not even really supposed to happen.
agree with dk completely. the original trailer gave nothing away. weeks before AC premiered the folks on here had at least 80% of the film mapped out. there were discussions on who did what exactly but the plot and outcome we had down to a T because the trailers gave the whole film away. they shouldn't have shown us the backburster in the trailer. they shouldn't have shown us the face hugger scene in the trailer. they shouldn't have revealed Walter etc etc etc
Thanks for posting- but Hell No! That goes for the Aliens trailer too. The original Alien trailer was basically just the egg with short cuts and no dialogue while showing no monsters and the new one shows too much like Prometheus and AC did.
That scene was so spectacular, short-lived, but spectacular!
However, it let us see exactly how powerful and effective the Black Pathogen is.
If the LV-223 Engineers had carried out their mission and reached Earth with it, the entire planet could have been cleansed in a matter of a few hours, perhaps less?
More stunning work by MPC.
Thanks Ingeniero
I saw this before. I wish that scene was longer- there was so much gore and brutal suffering- very satisfying albeit brief. TY for posting.
Thank you Lawrence of Arabia. It is great to hear from you.
The female with Gediman did appear to have a connection that was more than professional imo. I also read somewhere that his "seed" may have been involved somehow with that little bugger taken out of R8's chest at the start of the movie?
dk said,"xeno seemed to be controlling Gediman in a scene"
honestly, I've always interpreted the scene with the loneliness Gediman feels (I kind of put that feeling on David in A:C, but I'm not going into the details of that right now. It just is vaguely resembles.)
I think Gediman is lonely because he's a top notch scientist which is why he is allowed to be on a ship doing those kind of experiments outside of Earth regulated space. Gediman is damn good at science. Plus, I would say a bit morally off since he obviously is doing those experiments.
I felt like Gediman, in a way, naturally fell in love with his experiment. He thinks he's some kind of superpower since he has this kind of power to work on humans, illegally, on top of a previously uncapturable species. Gediman is in love because he loves his work. His work is capable of expressing some emotions. In A:R, it responds to Gediman's instigation and Gediman just eats it up. It's like Gediman is some horny teenager. He completely ignore the women working with him. When Gediman get's killed, I think his women associate expresses a little bit of hurt from losing Gediman because now he's gone forever and I think she wanted to be more than just an associate (maybe they were?). Gediman's work comes first over lovers and naturally when one of Gediman's specimens (uncapturable alien species) is capable of responding back, Gediman just gets even more of a high off of it. It's pure lust really.
Yet' Gediman underestimates the smarts of the Xeno, which is why he gets killed.
That is how I have interpreted that scene every time I watched it. I hope I explained my view well.
Lovely picture!
Prometheus gets me every time with the set design. Still fascinates me every time I watch it.
The Alien in Annihilation was better in ADM mixing however...
Awesome, thanks!
