Comments (Page 517)

"In Alien Covenant, the humanoids on Planet 4 appear to be monks & lacking in technology.  I think they have also agreed to a Covenant with their GOD, that they would no longer participate in their meddling with the Xenomorph, the black mutagen, or the life cycle associated with the Xeno."

Great point above and overall topic Cerulean Blue. I believe that David's words below from Advent below may lend support to a "Covenant" that the Engineers agreed to. 

"But then they tried to banish the wolf, And undo their creation. So I took their secrets for myself."

My question is "why" would the Engineers set aside the wolf?

They had to agreed to do this and who convinced them to do it? 

Thank you Cerulean Blue. Below is an enhanced, wider version of the mural that includes the section now visible with the facehuggers and Engineers BigDave and drucea were referring to above.

really hope David is within Walter's body as the opposite creates very unnecessary questions like: 

why did david make a scar on his face when nobody had seen the scar on walter?

and

how did he have enough time to scar himself, remove his hand, and change clothes?

I really hope RS is just trying to misinform the audience, as this idea really complements the "evolution of AI" theme they are moving towards and its something i find very interesting. Bonus points to RS if he decides that Walter voluntarily allowed David to body swap/integrate into his programming. 

(i say that with a tinge of apprehension as i really loved Walter and, at first, i had wanted Walter to show up at Origae-6 with the engineers and save the day. But if Walter was convinced to join David, it would be a much more interesting twist and also further the "AI taking over" thing.)

I really hope David is within Walter's body as the opposite creates very unnecessary questions like: 

why did david make a scar on his face when nobody had seen the scar on walter?

and

how did he have enough time to scar himself, remove his hand, and change clothes?

I really hope RS is just trying to misinform the audience, as this idea really complements the "evolution of AI" theme they are moving towards and its something i find very interesting. Bonus points to RS if he decides that Walter voluntarily allowed David to body swap/integrate into his programming. 

(i say that with a tinge of apprehension as i really loved Walter and, at first, i had wanted Walter to show up at Origae-6 with the engineers and save the day. But if Walter was convinced to join David, it would be a much more interesting twist and also further the "AI taking over" thing.)

Agreed on Thriller. Perhaps Adventure Thriller?  

10. David's head to bash things with

oh, definitely David's head!!  Then after the battle I would carry his head around and have Lexx style adventures with it. hehe.....

@ Ingeniero - I agree with you 100%!  The Fresco in the Ampule Room has got to have more going on, than it just looks cool?  The Mural has to have some kind of importance, as well!!  Great Post!!

Hard to say, but I would go with a thriller.

*Just a quick edit.

I mean, I guess Sci-Fi sums it up well enough. They are all Sci-Fi, but Covenant isn't really focused enough to be horror, mystery or action specifically  

You are most welcome drucea.

"After seeing these, I'm completely convinced the xenomorph was either derived from the DNA of this creature or was evolved from it.  Aside from the points on the elbows like the xenomorph, has anyone noticed that the beaked creature almost has "double fingers" or something like that?"

Below is an image of the xenomorph hand that looks very similar to the hands holding the egg above.

The "beak" on the creature that we see in the mural may be tendrils like the example shown in David's drawing below further supporting a theory of revival (by David) in regards to the sleeping horror of the xenomorph.

Thank you for the A,B,and C sketches BigDave. Especially the Starbeast...great historical concept reference.

The Prometheus punishment is also a very great point and could support other Engineers or their superiors taking action against the Engineers on LV-223 or elsewhere in the past and the revelation that comes with that.

There was obviously a disagreement that led to the death of the LV-223 Engineers and the mural may be a representation of the gifts of the mutagen and/or warning.

"Thus gives good reason for why those Engineers on Paradise did not fear the incoming Juggernaught at First, because the return of these ships means a Sacrifice would be chosen and then Immortalized in Stone as one of the Statues in the Courtyard.

There are holes to this theory though.... One being the revelation that Planet 4/Paradise actually had more Juggernauts Docked.. But this was never in the Theatrical Cut and also the admission of more Ships kind of adds to some Plot Holes as to why the Hell David was stuck on Paradise and needed to attract a Human Ship."

David may not have been stuck at all BigDave but could have been waiting on his "flock" to further experiment on. 

wouldn't call AC a horror in any way shape or form. not sure how u would class it tbh, sci-fi thriller?

More of a Horror with some action imo.

Double post.

Today's a day off. I should go to the gym... well, "I havent' finished my coffee. It's the only thing good on this ship"

Aliens had the most definitely but my favorite one-liners are from Alien:

"I can't lie to you about your chances but... you have my sympathies" - Ash

"Back to the ole freezerinos..."          - Brett

"Right." - Brett

"The first thing that I'm going to do when I get back is get some decent food!" - Kane

"Hey, the food ain't that bad man!"      -Parker

If we could find the Secret... i could attempt to Brew the WY Brew lol

@DK i plan to start my next batch as soon as i come back from Portugal, then i guess when its ready i could try Post some to the USA ;)

@drucea

Indeed thats the same observation i made 5 years ago...

some things to consider...

A) This is on of HR Gigers Earlier Facehugger Concepts, it appears in the Mural in Prometheus at bottom left.  This Face Hugger has a beaked like resemblance.  Note also the Bald Headed Humanoid who has a suit that is not to dissimilar to the Engineer in Prometheus.

B) This is Dan O'Bannons sketch for the Starbreast (Story/Draft that Alien Evolved from) and this design was O'Bannons idea, which he changed his mind when he came across HR Gigers Work, which he showed to Ridley Scott and RS said thats IT, not that O'Bannons Alien Creature is not too dissimilar to the Prometheus Fresco or even HR Gigers other Face Hugger concept.

C) Is the Egg/Spore room from Starbeast, this had a Mural in it and is very like the Mural Room in Prometheus, we can see how Prometheus may have taken some ideas from the Starbeast Sacrifice Room. Note the Altar has under it objects that look like the Eggs, not that the Sacrificial Creature is Basic, but it could look like a Ant with Mandibles or a Beak, you could even make comparisons with O'Bannons Creature.

Finally also coming from this creature is a Chest Buster that is very Octopoid like and looks similar to the Adult Trilobite in Prometheus.

Thats not to say any of this connects, its just i can see similarities and indeed its these kind of connections i was going to explore with my Prometheus 2 draft, that would have been explained in my 3rd but i abandoned them a few years ago as my draft mainly covered the Seeds of the Weyland-Yutani Merger, with a smaller portion that followed David and Shaw and the Engineers...

Thats a interesting new take on it Ingeniero indeed it does look like Riding Boots or indeed Long Boots as worn by Military/Naval leaders in our History.

The Digits on the Creatures back again a interesting idea, to hint that the creature is a extension of the Engineer, that could certainly be the case.

These Fresco's were one of the KEY important things for me in Prometheus, its a question of DID they actually mean anything, or were they simply just added because they are kind of cool and kind of would give a bit of Xeno DNA to the movie?

It appeared to be a massive clue to me, but the movie was so ambiguous that we can maybe read into things too much and also who knows what connection IF ANY there is now with the WAY FOX are re-writing the Lore a little.

To me i thought and would still like to think these Fresco's are a connection between the Engineers and some Creature that is related to the Xenomorph, i feel the Mural also fits with this and the Black Goo also has to be linked with the Mural and Fresco's

How this connects, is anyone's guess and if it NOW connects or no longer does, or if it EVER did is anyone's guess.

It could be taken as though the Creature is being Subjugated by the Engineer as the creature has a submissive stance, but to me it also has a Fetal Position, indicating it is Born/New.

Just as in these concepts...

Thats how i saw the Creatures Posture...

As for the whole Fresco, some thought it was very much the GOD and ADAM from the  Sistine Chapel, which it could be as it would mean the Engineer is the Creator of the Creature as God is with Adam, but the poses look different to me, the Engineer looks to be in suffering and we have the Scar on the Engineer that looks very similar to what Dr Shaw had after she had the Trilobite removed via C-Section.

Also if this links to the Mural, the Fresco creature does not quite look like the Deacon in the Mural.

My interpretation of the Fresco, is that it looks a lot like this PROMETHEUS PUNISHMENT Fresco. Which i made this comparison a while ago.

Prometheus/Engineers Head are the same pose, the Legs similar too and where the Eagle is pecking at Prometheus Liver we see the Scar on the Engineer.

Looking back at the Fetal Pose of the Creature and those same pose by the Deacon New Born Concepts.... i believe the Engineers or a Engineer was Punished by the Gods for Stealing/Misusing the Fire/Knowledge or maybe Sacrificial Goo.  Or something that connects to similar to Prometheus antics in the Greek Mythos.

And he/they was Punished by something that lead to that creature in the Mural....   I believed that this did not completely destroy those Engineers.

But actually it was seen as a Sign to them, as it actually gave them a way to Give Birth to New Life...  so they actually saw the results of the Punishment as a Revelation.

I believe they then used the Sacrificial Goo to experiment on this Creature and after many experiments they finally Created the Deacon, and they Held this Creature in high Regard as Perfection.

They then chose to Worship it, and use its DNA to Evolve Life rather than their own Engineer DNA... Hence those Urns..  "Sometimes to Create One Must Destroy"

And so to replace and evolve Life into Life that now has this more Perfect DNA...

Thats just my Two Cents... which i feel parts of Alien Covenant add to, as i feel the Planet 4 Purpose was to collect Sacrifices, to be broken down into Material Stored into Urns and dropped onto worlds to Evolve them as a more Advanced and More Effective means than the Ancient individual Sacrifices (Prometheus Prologue)

Thus gives good reason for why those Engineers on Paradise did not fear the incoming Juggernaught at First, because the return of these ships means a Sacrifice would be chosen and then Immortalized in Stone as one of the Statues in the Courtyard.

There are holes to this theory though.... One being the revelation that Planet 4/Paradise actually had more Juggernauts Docked.. But this was never in the Theatrical Cut and also the admission of more Ships kind of adds to some Plot Holes as to why the Hell David was stuck on Paradise and needed to attract a Human Ship.

Thanks for putting up these lightened images.  I've never really looked into much of the detail of these characters until now.  After seeing these, I'm completely convinced the xenomorph was either derived from the DNA of this creature or was evolved from it.  Aside from the points on the elbows like the xenomorph, has anyone noticed that the beaked creature almost has "double fingers" or something like that?  Definitely looks like two sets of nails/claws on each finger, and each looks like it might even have two sets of bones running through them.  The fingers holding the ovomorph are also definitely the hands of the beaked creature, judging by the double finger/claws thing.  Lastly, I've always wondered why the xenomorph hands always had fingers connecting.  I think the beaked creature DNA mixed with human-ish DNA might allow the beaked creatures fingers to evolve more into human like fingers, just remaining somewhat connected.  Sorry for the long post, I'm kind of thinking out loud, or through the keyboard.

Looks nice so far. Reminds me of the Arrow-class ship (USCMC Recon Ship) the Excursionists have, in The Rage War. Personally i would've gone with a turreted torpedo/missile system but that's just a question of taste. :) Not meant as critique.

Keep it up. 

For some reason i'm thinking of Tau attack drones. Those little fellas can use standard infantry weaponry.

I both love and hate (maybe too harsh a word) these threads. nothing negative towards those who put them up but to me it just shows how badly the decision makers are. these concepts r awesome and im sure im not the only person who thinks that in a lot of the cases, the un-used concept would have been so much better than what we actually got in the movie. it makes me wonder does it really matter if Messing works on another instalment or not. I feel like guys such as Messing deliver these brilliant ideas and all the feedback they get is 'nice job but itl cost too much so wer going with the most basic, cheapest option' and those decisions are not really in the best interests of the movie. just the above concepts would have added so much to either of the prequels imo so the question is would it matter if Messing is involved when such brilliant work is knocked back in favour of more basic, cheaper options?

Considering NECA stopped production, I ordered a couple of these. One for me and another for...well...perhaps a lucky and alert member down the road.

Walter- "Yes, Dear."

Give me my purgative- I have to go to work!

Me getting up for work.Drake"They ain't paying us enough for this man"

To me it shows that Walter may emotion than he knows.He shows feelings of irritation and exasperation at mother's comment 

The left hand of that submissive creature is similar to the ones holding the ovomorph.

Is it possible that we are looking at an alien queen, in a sense of the one who created the eggs? Some extinct creature from the engineers' mythology, the true origin of the xenomorph? Did the engineers do reverse engineering only, as David, recreating a beast that existed in their mythical beginning?

I would like that path to be explored in one film.

To me, that creature seems closely related to the xenomorph. In the picture above we can see similarities on the shoulder, arm, spin on the elbow and fingers between the two. Those five ridges remind me of the xenomorph's ribcage.

The engineers' pressure suit seems to be inspired by that morphology as well.

I hope we'll see more of that creature in the next film.

The picture is of the Big Chap from Kotobukiya and I could not upload it properly (vertically).

IRaptus Well played! Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. That's the spirit!

Ill start with a visual quote. 

Hahaha nice! this site needs more Monty Python references lol. 

I like the sounds of a BigDave brew!!! 

Per the OP protocol, I officially bump.

Alarm clock sounds- “All right, sweethearts, what are you waiting for? Breakfast in bed?” Apone, Aliens

Thank you dk. 

The Covenant.

Wow- I never noticed the 5 riges before and possibly being fingers. Nice work as always!

I think BigDave is right. None of us here right now will live to see the OP as cool as it is. It will take a lot of time, research and funding.

I don't recommend a lot of books but from your topic I believe you would really enjoy it I Moon Girl. You're most welcome.

I love the image with the temple and the red growth around it. Yes, we want him.