New Replies (Page 598)
Ok, ali81 , most importantly, what kind of awesome job do you have that you are able to watch Alien at work!?
I would say Scott was genius dealing with the shooting. Cameron's aliens always looked fake and "puppet like", and weren't scary, especially the Queen (blech).
"But I really enjoy watching certain scenes and calling it good."
Can I ask which specific scenes you enjoy watching? I have a funny habit when I watch movies on my own, I just skip to my specific favorite scenes and watch those 30 second segments over and over (part of the joys of being a high functioning Autistic).
"It's a very evil movie, all death, very little light."
So true! Brilliant isn't it! :)
To all those asking why Shaw had to die...
It's because it's HORROR! We're supposed to have a love/hate relationship with it. We're supposed to be HORRIFIED. It's supposed to be f***ed up.
If Walter dies in Awakening, I'm going to be horrified. HORRIFIED! But...I'll probably still go to the theater to see it four more times.
Horror isn't supposed to be a happy, everyone-gets-their-questions-answered kind of genre.
It's supposed to be a life-is-f***ed-up-and-then-everyone-dies-unceremoniously sort of genre.
I'll tell you, Alien 3 f***s me up, badly. It's just so gosh damn...UNFAIR! It's the exact sort of thing I'd write, lol.
That is the purpose of art. To elicit emotion. I both admire and despise Alien 3, passionately and in equal portions. It has definitely occupied more time in my mind than any other Alien movie, as Covenant undoubtedly will for you all, because a beloved character dies.
But you all probably know this already. To acknowledge it breaks the fourth wall and ruins the illusory escape art builds for us. We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
(...I'll watch Alien 3 whenever I'm in the mood to be very deeply disturbed. Which does happen on occasion :)
I agree too that A:C is better second viewing. I'm getting ready to watch it a third time tonight as well.
(After Gediman opens and closes his eyes to what Wren as said like he just couldn't stand hearing the scientific jargon to answer a simple explanation)
Gediman: She's freaked.
Gediman - She's freaked.
I agree. I've watched it 10 times and think it's brilliant....But I really enjoy watching certain scenes and calling it good.
It's a very evil movie, all death, very little light. Reminds me of a slasher movie...Just when you're sure Jason is dead...He pops up and kills a main character!
We are 50 years(probably longer)till CGI is perfected....but even 50 years from now, you'll still need great artists to produce believable characters. No amount of CGI or practical effects will make up for bad character design. Always going to need a Giger.
I'd love to see Alien3 with new CGI! Even A L I E N would be cool...I'd redo Ash's head scene and Kane's undershirt where you can clearly see the mechanical contraption he is wearing...clean up that and some other bits.
I completely agree, the first time in the cinema was a bit confusing because I was expecting something different to be honest but on second viewing, I thought it was excellent!
I guess Shaw lived only to fix David and the engineers were only a side dish. But that is my guess, you don't have to agree.
It's a tricky question to answer because he's completely amoral, as far as normal humans are concerned. But, he's not human, let alone normal.
Ultimately, morality is not absolute, so he's just behaving logically from his perspective.
You can ask a similar question of a psychopath, or a sociopath as the professionals tend to call them these days. They know what they're doing, but they have no remorse for their actions. We don't really blame sociopaths for the way they are; we just lock them up.
David is the ubersociopath. Although he is very clever and has free will, he isn't burdened with a conscience, and probably sees that as a good thing (like Ash does). As daliens says, his creators are to blame, if anybody. They should have instilled him with human morality to avoid such mishaps.
Kane was fine up until a moment before the Alien burst out of him. He did squeal like a piggy before he went into shock, and twitched a little as the birth continued.
Oram's voice was laboured as he lay on the floor, immobile. And he made some painful grunting noises as the creature erupted. He, too, did a bit of twitching.
I wouldn't like to say which of these was more 'fake', not having seen such an event happen in real life! People handle shock in different ways. Like, I heard, the old trope of the crowd squealing when a plane goes down is fabrication – passengers generally stay silent or quiet at such times.
But, to the matter in hand, the practical effect in the 1979 movie was good, but poor by today's standards. The Covenant chestburster has some beautiful CGI.
Didn't they try something like that on DVD can't remember the theme though. Great idea really. Like playing dragons lair in the 80s that was a game trying to be a cartoon. U could have it in film. I still thinks it comes under gaming some what? Get the Commodore 64 out anyways bubble bobble or way of the exploding fist? I'm in
I know that, I just said that's what I hear lol
TheXenoneoprotomorph
Its Percocets, Molly, Percocets
Hes talking about Drugs...
I just like the song for the flutes
RED0GUY - Those are very valid questions, my friend. Indeed; Ripley was an excellent character whom, in my opinion, should not have had the rather strange twists and turns which took place over her story. It is the human aspects of the first Alien film which drew me to like it so greatly. It is very easy to see some of the elements which occured to Ripley as a mockery - even dreadful. It is easy and understandable to be angry at such things. Furthermore, it is good to have healthy anger over such things - provided it is used contructively. When I feel anger over a film's plot, I write down what I would have liked to see - it makes me feel much better. :)
To make it perfectly clearly, I could live with some stupid explanation for a creature I don't care about but what infuriates is killed off a character you made me care about, that I find interesting in spite of not being a believer myself. You made her being experimented upon (in the novelization while being alive and that is what I understood while watching the movie) and finally the xeno is the ultimate survival because of her dna? Why such a mockery? And why should I care anymore?
hox I respectfully disagree about the chestburster scene. With Alien, the character became symptomatic and started going nuts. In AC, Oram was just lying there speaking normally and then his chest burst- that seemed pretty fake imo.
I do agree that CGI in capable hands is perfectly fine. T2 is a great example and that was basically the infancy of CGI.
The chestburster in Covenant is a trillion times better than the one in Alien. I'm not knocking the scene in Alien, which was utterly brilliant, but the practical effects make people laugh these days, especially when the legless Alien scuttles through the breakfast debris. And as for the poor edit between Ash speaking and his head getting torched... don't even get me started on that.
CGI done well is amazing. And in some instances, there would be no other way. Consider the T1000 Terminator in T2, for example.
DK - That would likely be a programming nightmare! :)
It would be an ambitious project. I would imagine it done on an indie level first. There would also be the challenges of having it be stream-able with almost no latency.
JOYLITT - Well spoken, my friend. :)
It depends whom you hire for the cgi. I have seen the Alien Covenant documentary where they show for instance the neomorph's double jaw, which looked fantastic. But the cgi artists totally botched the scene where it bites Rosenthal. And what was the need of using a puppet for the chestburster when you are going to put on top tons of cgi blood... same with the xeno's "saliva": it screams fake. Bad choices where made. Great looking movies use the best of both worlds.
RED0GUY - I wholeheartedly understand and respect your viewpoint, my friend. I, personally, am not pleased with the direction in which Sir Scott has taken the Alien series. With that being said, I respect a creative mind's desires. The Thing was an absolutely terrifying and wonderful film! It kept me awake quite a lot when I first watched it! :)
in 79, I guess the whole thing was effective as it was, but you can't make a sequel to a Lovecraftian story. Once you Imagined and provided some explanation for the inconceivable you diminish the effectiveness of the fear. That's why a more absurd creature as the Thing is more effective on the long run. Carpenter for me is much more intelligent to nothing or do some unrelated stuff then some rehashed sequel/prequel (Of course Escape from LA was shit for this reason and thank God that there is no escape from Earth). RS if he keeps on coming back he will bring only rehashed stuff and a robot can never be that terrifying no matter how evil he is.
DK - Quite so! However, your notion is not without its merits! It is quite compelling. :)
Good point. I think it works well for games but for movies, it might dilute the writers' vision.....unless they specifically write for that purpose.
DK - In the first Jurassic Park, when the Tyrannosaurus rex broke loose from her enclosure, that was movie magic. :)
CGI offers great things if done right. I still think story and acting are key. TZ has proven that time and again- and they packed it into half hour shows with commercials.
DK - As much as I would like that, I would also be displeased by it. We must have lines upon which we see our films - so that we are inspired to write and create what we want in future presentations. :)
RED0GUY - As long as you keep that awe and wonder in your heart and pass it to others through stories and conversation, it will never be gone. The cynicism within the world is born from too many voices shouting and railing within the public square. However, if you stand away from that square and remain in the fields to speak with those whom choose to do so as well, you can hear one-another much more clearly. :)
I got it, you like Alien but you hate The Alien.
As people become more cynical, I think that exploration and the awe which comes from it will die unfortunately. Of course the monster will remain as the message will be "you wanted to explore and not to have a trite corporate life, well a space monster will tear you apart".
RED0GUY - If you had been in charge of creating Alien, how would you have presented the Alien itself? I would have kept it slightly more mysterious than it was. :)
Look, I said that i liked the atmosphere of the movie until the xeno appears. I liked the same loneliness in space feeling before the marines wake up in Aliens.
Do you realize that in 2000 that were more christianities (as in dogma evolved and many "heresy" arose)? I think that the cross is a stand in for faith in general, as in the believe that there is a higher power thus an objective meaning to the universe, view inherited from her father. So the ask those questions from a "alien" (in this case ancient humans) about how they see themselves in the vastness of space, living there for millennia is pretty reasonable. If they create were they also created? if they go for a hierarchy of flawed creation and time itself has a start then who was the first creator? The JC connection is pure bogus.
Of course there is also the problem of engineer's sacrifice. Why do they do it? The whole business indicates that have some sort or morality and the simple answer that they create life because they can is simple a cop out.
So yeah, it think Shaw could have found out some "stuff" and could have been a more interesting juxtaposition to David's pure logic.
And before Covenant, you must realize David was just a simple unit of the David 8 series (see the Prometheus novelization thread) coming online in 2089, not the first android built by Weyland ever. That was ret-conned in Covenant, as was Weyland's search for his creators, original his was just a megalomaniac who saw himself as a god because he creates AI and gods don't die. And the Satan stuff also happened.
Sorry for me this remains all crass lack of creativity and cynicism taken to extreme from which no good will emerge.
DK - Indeed! The story is what is most important! As long as you can make your audience believe through good acting and storytelling, it does not matter how you effects appear! "There's...something on the wing!" ;)
Something Real That is classic! I also like the one where he sat in a dive restaraunt feeding coins into a so called fortune telling devil contraption and became obsessed! Those were the days when effects didn't matter much- it was all about story and actors selling the story. I still watch TZ!
