New Replies (Page 174)

It doesn't matter - it's all not on the screen. Therefore, it is not part of the story. I don't see any sense to cut anything from the movie, and then give an explanation. Films don't work like that!

Any next director can easily take the engineers, as they are, but give them his own explanation and vision. Not because he doesn’t agree with Ridley’s vision or ideas - it’s important, but because Ridley left the "ground" free for any other ideas.

For example - why Queen appeared in the Alien Universe? Only because Ridley cut out the eggmorphing scene. The scene that revealed the alien reproductive system. So... Ground is free - Queen appears!

Some of the Cuts were apparently made because he felt leaving some Scenes in would GIVE AWAY too much (Elders)

I will never understand this. And even more - I refuse to understand this and this way of thinking! If you have ideas - you must implement them in the film. Because you don't know what will happen next. Will it be possible to implement them later? As we know - no. Their plans are changed and I want to know - why?

Maybe - there was never a plan?

Alien Universe is not Star Wars. And even in SW it doesn’t always work!

Well who knows the Real Story behind what Happens at the Cutting Room...

Typically a Production Company would want some CUTS to get the Movie into a Theatrical Running Time, i will however say it seems that RS was pleased with the CUTS and Claimed there would be NO Directors Cut as this was his Directors Cut.

Contradictory!!!! HOW DARE YOU ;)

YEP! i have to agree that RS does have a Habit of Contradicting himself a bit ;)

Some of the Cuts were apparently made because he felt leaving some Scenes in would GIVE AWAY too much (Elders) some likely for Pacing to get us into a Shorter Running Time.. these were Insignificant to a degree.

He had asked for the Engineer vs Dr Shaw Scene to be SHOT again as he Felt the Original made the Engineer seem to come across a bit Underwhelming.... but in Truth the Removal of that Scene meant the Forced Removal of others on the Cutting Room (where Engineer Clearly have No Burns).

What these did is seem to then (inc reduced Engineer Speaks Scene) Portray the Engineer as just going POSTAL.

Which RS had said afterwards that they are just Aggressive Muthur Truckers!

So in Part it seems RS wanted them Portrayed in a Certain way... he even indicated that they were Evil SOB's and that Dr Shaw and David would Discover some beings who are FAR from Benevolent.

The Full Sacrificial Scene did seem a Benevolent Act, the Base Idea for the Engineers at Conception was a Benevolent Species towards Mankind.... UNTIL something had Happened to Change all of that.

The  Planet 4 Engineers did come across as some Race who lived a Benevolent Life... but as NOT much was shown we cant really be sure how they BEHAVED... they may be Benevolent to their Civilization... that does-not mean they are Towards Others....  but it could appear they ONCE DID.

Which i find would be Interesting to see what Changed.. it was kind of hinted at in Interviews... but i think the Scope was their for more than we just STARTED to misbehave... RS even indicating the Engineers Created Horrors to Protect themselves.

Ridley Scott does mention the Engineers a Fair Bit in Regards to they are Gardeners of Space... and not they WAS.  So we have to Wonder in what Context is their Gardening of Space.. to what END?

As he mentions them in light of being Gardeners even after Alien Covenant. He made some Interesting Comments about their Species and the Hall of Heads.

There is/was a Story to be Told... but its a case of IF we would ever really see that side of the Engineers... as it seems the Intention is that some Engineers Return to Planet 4 and they would be NOT PLEASED at what they FIND and would be OUT to get the Culprit and you have to assume that Davids Head would be on a Platter..

It seemed that Prometheus 2 was to STEER AWAY from ALIEN and the Xenomorph, we dont know how much Clues to LV-223 would have been given.... or IF any reason is given to WHY they would Create the Horrors on LV-223.

Maybe i am GIVING him (Ridley Scott) a bit too much Credit... on one hand he comes up with he Felt he was AHEAD of the Curve with Prometheus... but on the other he thinks he could PULL OFF another 3-6 Movies and go for a all out WAR OF THE WORLDS.

You have to assume that would Logically mean the Aggressive Goon Squad and a WHOLE MANNER of Xenomorph Related Beasts!

Mankind and David are FODDER... unless David creates some Superior Species or can Control his Xenomorph Horde..

So maybe the PATH FORWARD would be more like the Comics?  I guess we would never know..

Maybe its me seeing MORE Potential with the PLOT and thinking this is what RS is doing/going for... when actually he MAY NOT be?

HULK SMASH!!!!

Yeah interesting Catch ;)

The Elder does look like some of the Unused Concept Work for Prometheus ;)  The Bowl also looking Similar but Larger to some of the other Concepts too ;)

Prometheus had depth for engineers, but RS himself (not FOX) cut out all the interesting points. So... RS wanted to show and explore the Engineers, but at the same time did not want to? A bit contradictory.

I applaud RS for trying to do something Different

He did, but then just cut out.

and i am Disappointed that FOX never had the Balls

FOX had, and filmed Prometheus, but Ridley cut out the interesting moments.

@Leto

Thanks for the Share ;)

WOW that looks Impressive... Certainly have a Space Jockey that Matches the Intended Scale of ALIEN

So we have to WONDER what does this SCENE come from (in Comic) it clearly is the Being on the Cover.

This has to be from Issue One and so we have to Assume this is the Exploration of the Derelict Alien Ship.

However in O'Bannon's Drafts this being was Skeletal and just a Unsuspecting Victim of the STARBEAST.

This Alien Being looks kinda Organic yet Plantlike... by that it looks like Aesthetically its like something of a Off Spring of Kroot from Guardians of the Galaxy and the Pumpkinhead Monster ;)

Could it be some kind of SPACE SUIT?

What is interesting is there are NO signs of a Chest Buster Hole... and the Head/Helmet does have a STAR SHAPE.. does this imply this is the Starbeast?

I guess it depends on HOW CLOSE they stick to O'Bannon's Story and WHERE the Location of this 20ft being is.. (Derelict Cactus like Ship or a Pyramid Complex).

Cant wait to see more ;)

I will add that it seems they are coming up with their OWN kind of Designs for the Ships and Monsters etc... maybe some will take a little NOD to some Used /Unused works from the Franchise but it seems they are using their OWN imagination to give us some NEW Designs..

It will be interesting to see how these Progress ;)

@Leto

Indeed i am not Contesting that this was not Part of the Canon ;)

If we IGNORE the Sacrificial Scene from Prometheus, then what we end up with is Dr Shaw and Holloway interpreting the Ancient Visitations by Alien Human-like beings who Mankind may have identified as Godlike beings, as ACTUALLY being nothing but Brutish Thugs who have little CARE about Creation and more so about Creating Horrific Biological Warfare.

Which is to a Degree is True... it is the depiction of the Engineers that the Comics have decided to go with, as this kind of Engineer fits well with a Run, Hide, Shoot type of Aliens and AVP kind of Franchise.

But you also have to Wonder if there is MORE to them than this.... which i think is something that RS may have intended to show us with Sequels... that seems to be Brushed Aside with Alien Covenant... we only have a Glimpse at a Engineer Society that seemed Worlds Apart to the Biologically Enhanced looking Brutes of LV-223.

The Purpose of the Topic was to look at how it appears that Exploring the Engineers beyond those Suited Up, Angry SOB's on LV-223 seems Unlikely.

I think RS and Co had a Vision beyond that where we would have seen a bit more about their Culture/History as well as to discover WHY we have those THUGS if you would...  Its possible they could have been Explored as a Hubristic attempt at Creating a Enhanced/Engineered Off-Shoot of the Engineers which proved a Downfall... maybe this seems a bit BLADERUNNER but i was drawn to RS maybe indeed making some kind of Connection... as in the Engineer Bladerunner of Sorts.

But i think a lot of Fans may not be too Happy to look into depth with the Engineers, what may seem more interesting is seeing WHAT kind of Technology these guys have in Terms of for the USE of Warfare and HOW the Xenomorph etc would FIT into this.

I think some Elements of Prometheus would have gone to become some Thought Provoking themes... that maybe go beyond the Interest of some who just want to see Humans Running away from Xenomorphs, and then Marines come along and Pop a Cap in their Asses... but then see such other ALIEN Races like Predators and Engineers rock up to dish out some Human Fodder too.

I am not saying all Fans would prefer the same, or Pinpointing any One in Particular... i just feel the Engineers Plot could have given us a Chariots of the Gods with a bit of a Lovecraft Touch.  I also felt the Hubristic approach of Mankind wishing to Enhance themselves and Create Slaves to basically do their Hard/Dirty Work is Interesting... but some Fans are NOT really interested in that... YET it could IMO Mirror what happened with the Engineers.

I think the way they tried to Expand the Franchise was too BOLD for some... and it should have been left a Mystery and we should have had more Xenomorph Eggs discovered by Humans kind of Fodder thats been done over and over and over (if we also consider Games/Comics)

I applaud RS for trying to do something Different and i am Disappointed that FOX never had the Balls or Faith to stick with the Vision that RS had.

I welcome seeing this Aggressive Sons of Queen! Engineers.. but i also would have liked to see more Depth to them... rather than more Stalk and Kill and Throw, while Humans will Run Away and Shoot!

Interestingly, I don't see any signs of infection or chestburster. This starbeast (yeah, because his head looks like a star) looks almost alive! You might even think that he is looking at people.

Maybe it is the alien?! The shape of the head corresponds to the starbeast.

It looks very much in the style of Lovecraft.

Thank you so much for that Leto.  Awesome artwork!

Yes it is.  

The Starbeast could hold a human like a can of soda.

This guy is huge!

Official Dark Horse page

where they would just ROCK UP with Advanced Weapons or Sheer Muscle and KICK ASS....

Oh, c'mon! Not again! Engineers already are kick ass space bodybuilders! This is Ridley's canon before Covenant.

I think this would make a NICE and Affordable Collectors Toy for the Fans...

Improved Articulation and Extras a Nice Bonus

@Ingeniero

This is some Interesting things, i think it depends on if we are going to Explore such as a Prequel or not..

I do recall, and i am not sure if it was on here or the AVPGalaxy Site, that some had felt that arriving at Origae-6 and reveal it as a Place with Pyramids etc that Already Contain Eggs would be the Best Way Forwards.

I would find this a bit TOO MUCH of a Coincidence...

But i guess it could be the ULTIMATE Story to RUBBISH that David had NOT created the Xenomorph but also it could be used to RUBBISH that the Engineers had done so too.

And indicate that Origae-6 is where the Engineers obtained the Eggs and attempted to Re-Engineer Traits from them on LV-223.  But then we would have to have some Good Explanation to HOW and WHY it is that David had got his Eggs and WHY he bothered with all those Experiments if he had access to those Eggs.

Having the Engineers being so STUPID to keep EGGS on Planet 4 would not make much sense... unless it reveals the Engineers on Planet 4 keep some in a SAFE Place to Sacrifice themselves to Xenomorphs but then you have to ASK to WHY and then HOW COME we see Planet 4 is NOT overran by Xenomorphs.

They could take such a idea as above, as far as Origae-6 is the Location of the Xenomorphs and so we have the STARBEAST Plot.... where the Engineers are a Race who had attempted to Transfer the Xenomorph from this place to Planet 4 or LV-223.

You would also have to come up with WHY the Engineers would have a EGG on Planet 4.

But i guess such a IDEA as in this Reply in Context to what you posted Aliens: Advent/Terminus could be a Option going Forward that would please some of the Fanbase.

"That would still be a better choice I think, that is just my opinion though"

Certainly everyone is Entitled to that and its HARD to please everyone...  you make a GOOD point about we are left with Characters who we just cant connect with, David is the MAIN one but as he is NOT a Human Character and he is just a ANTAGONIST then you need to have Protagonist that you can Connect with and THEY should be the MAIN Roles.

SADLY....  Daniels and Tennessee are NOT really Good Enough, but i guess they could TRY and FIX them... but the Reveal in Alien Covenant that Daniels now knows who DAVID is... really has caused a Dilemma as the OT shows.

There are a Number of Things that Fans are NOT pleased with as far as Alien Covenant, we have Characters but also beyond a Character is the STORY the PLOT and you do have to get Characters Right to make this WORK.. but you also have to Consider the STORY/PLOT.

So with the STORY what we have is what is a SET of Prequels that would Eventually lead to ALIEN and give us the Answers to WHO created the Xenomorph, and WHEN/WHY did those Eggs get on the Derelict.

What we had is a Indication that the EVENTS of Alien Covenant will eventually lead us to ALIEN.

And so we have the FOLLOWING..

*The USCSS Covenant which was Diverted from its Mission to go to Origae-6 a Earth like World to SET-UP a New Colony a Fresh Start for 2000 Colonist, and 1,140 Embryo's and its 15 Crew.  A Majority of the Colonist and Embryo's had Survived... but they are NOT aware of what Happened on Planet 4 and WHO really Walter now is.

*David who is in Control of the Ship and Basically the Colonist and Embryo's and what Happens to them and where the Ship goes Next are all down to what DAVID would want to do.

*Daniels as the ONLY Human on the Ship who is aware of WHO it is that Walter really IS.  Surely as soon as she is awake she would want to awaken the Colonist or some and WARN them who David is... 

*David has TWO Face Hugger Embryo's we cant RULE-OUT him getting any Black Goo or having some.

*The Weyland-Yutani Company are made aware of that David is NOW in Control of the Covenant Ship, and they are aware to some Degree of where he has BEEN and what he has been UP TO....

So the SET-UP is that (unless they Change Plans) the EVENTS that would Transpire in relation to either.

1) What David does NEXT and what he has Planed with the Colonist and those Embryo's (Human and Xenomorph). Where does he go and WHEN!

2) What becomes of the Remaining Eggs on Planet 4, would the Weyland-Yutani Company go to explore there or LV-223.

It would seem that FROM either of these Scenario's it would have to be about David to quite a Degree... and from either of those TWO Scenario's will lead to the EGGS that end up on the Derelict...

We just then NEED a Engineer Ship which is likely where the ENGINEERS have to come back into the FOLD or a TRIP to LV-223.

The Problem is that such a PATH would mean that David still has a Important Role he would be one of the MAIN Characters who we have to assume would be ALLOTTED the TOP THREE slots as far as Screen Time.

This Path makes him Part of the Eventual Creation of the Xenomorph, and makes the Xenomorph as something that DOES-NOT exist prior to Alien Covenant.

These are ALL things a lot of Fans are NOT Happy with.

So its a RIGHT PICKLE...

A After-Math sequel looks more LIKELY if there ever will be a Sequel... Unless they are going to ADD some CGI Gloss to De-Age Fassbender (as i cant see a Sequel being Made within Next Few Years).

And so the Discovery of a Broken David's Corpse would be away around this, and LESS time about him.  But he would have some Dialog/Information and maybe Flash Back Scenes to help the Audience know what had Happened from after they left Planet 4, until another Human Ship arrives to Discover a Disaster and David's Corpse.

The Fans then would likely want to see XENOMORPHS but have someway to indicate they are NOT created by David.

They could Re-activate Davids Head and have him say that the Eggs they (Incoming Humans) discovered on (Where-ever David is Discovered) all began with David discovering some Eggs on the Engineers Planet and he attempted to Merge these with the Neomorph Spores and used Black Goo to Create a Hybrid.

This may be a BEST CASE Scenario for many Fans..

But then NO DOUBT we would have Fans who would still want to then know.... WHERE did the Eggs that David had Discovered came from, and WHAT about those on the Derelict and WHAT the Space Jockey was doing with the Eggs and likely they would CLUTCH AT MORE STRAWS.. in the hope.... the Space Jockey is NOT a Engineer.

How do they introduce that if they go for a Please (some) Fanboys, David is Dead, Eggs Ancient, and Engineers are NOT a Space Jockey Movie...

It really is a MESS!

That came down to FOX deciding to make the First Movie a LESS ALIENY one.... and then to FORCE the Sequel to actually lets bring the ALIENS back.... but make David the Creator!

Instead of having David Create something DIFFERENT!

But ALAS!

I would hope NOT as far as discredit Davids work, as i stated above it would be IN-EFFECT doing less Credit to him, than what we got with Dr Shaw as a Corpse ;)

Unless they come up with some Good Detailed Reason and NOT A LAZY....     One such as say this...

==============================

INT. CATACOMBS

As David wonders around the Gloomy Catacombs under the Engineers Cathedral, he DETECTS a Horrific Smell.  Had some Engineers tried to HIDE here, but the STENCH does not smell like it’s from Dead Corpses that are DAYS OLD.

The Smell leads him down some Stairs and into a Damp, Dark Room, as his EYES SCAN the Room something in the CORNER catches his EYE.

LOW AND BEHOLD... David has discovered an EGG like the one from the ORIGINAL MOVIE, this ONE looks Withered Away.

DAVID "My oh my what have we here"

As he approaches it he caresses it’s WITHERED SURFACE and he Notices the Petal Like Opening that seems PARTIALLY OPEN.

He PULLS APART these Flaps to Reveal a Arachnid like Organism, the FACE HUGGER as he takes it out, it begins to HISS and Move with its LAST CLUCH OF LIFE it tries to SMOTHER David but then detects he is NOT LIVING.... This is the LAST ACTION that the Organisms makes, before it FALLS to the FLOOR and CURLS UP.

DAVID looks on AMUSED

"Impressive, what tenacity"

==============================

But i guess as long as its NOT less detailed than that.

I think the BEST OPTION would be to have David responsible for the XENOMORPH as far as its LEVEL of Evolution at Present...

Have someone else come and EVOLVE his Creation, but that would leave us with the PICKLE that the Xenomorph Eggs on LV-426 are NOT there at least 17.5 years prior to ALIEN but there is a FIX that would sort this and KILL us TWO Birds with ONE Stone..  (Age of Eggs and LV-223).

The Moebius' Space Jockey does bare a little Resemblance to the FINAL version we see in the Movie... a little.

It looks like a Skeleton/Skull with a Elongated Mouth Portion, you could think BIRD but many Animals Skulls have that Elongated Jaw... not limited to Reptiles, Birds, but also to Certain Dogs, Certain Rodents and other Mammals inc Deer, Sheep and Cows etc.

So what the Creature was like before it was a Skeleton is any ones Guess, only that the Moebius designs does-not have a Jaw Structure/Face like a Human or even Primates.

The other Concept we had was that of Chris Foss

Which is Very Basic so its hard to work out, but i assume we have to run with the idea given to him to then draw is that we are looking at a Skeleton of a Alien Species.. and if we consider that then its NOT very detailed.

I took TWO of the Concepts from The Predator and Modified the One to give it Eyes... so i feel that the Chris Foss version if this is a SKULL could be similar to those TWO The Predator Designs when Alive.... well it is a Organism that appears to have TWO Mandibles

So who knows what our Dead Pilot would look like.

Does Guilherme Balbi  give us anything that is based off Ron Cobb's, Chris Foss or the Moebius design?

or do they come up with their OWN design?

I am not sure they would use the Ridleygram as that is basically HR Gigers Necronom V

Although as you mentioned with ELDEN from the Fire and Stone Comic... i think a bit of that Aesthetic could be Incorporated.. but then we could get something COMPLETELY different to anything we seen in the ALIEN Franchise which includes Concept Work.

However as far as the OT...

Then i think Certainly more about the Engineers would have been needed, both the LV-223 Kind and Planet 4 and more so the Overall Agenda/History of who they are and WHY are they considered Creators.. but then Create such Horrific Weapons... (well some of them had done).

It would have to be a BALANCE... between Ancient looking Engineers and Technologically Advanced ones...

Sadly i cant see Disney really investing Time in them... we may only see them in COMIC FORM where they would just ROCK UP with Advanced Weapons or Sheer Muscle and KICK ASS....

If we got a Expanded Novel Universe then i think that would be suited to give us more about the Engineers... but it is a case of would Disney be interesting in the Engineers Full Stop?

I think Disney would be more interesting in showing us Queens, Eggs and Ripleys.

Certainly, i think in a way RS felt that the things he was trying to Achieve by a Sequel to Prometheus that likely would have NOT been about Xenomorphs was something he felt was more Important than going back to Xenomorphs that had been done Over and Over...

Alien Covenants Failing was not down to Xenomorphs it was about a LOT of things, some Fans had lost interest after Prometheus, as there was some Fans who was displeased that Prometheus was not really much of a ALIEN Movie, and how RS had seemed to indicate that he wanted to STEER AWAY from Xenomorphs.  Alien Covenant was  Marketed as a Prequel to ALIEN that would Uncover the Xenomorph Origins and bring back the Xenomorph, but it was NOT enough to get the Fans to the Box Office...  thats REGARDLESS of the Characters, it just seemed the MOVIE never had as much Interest.

I am sure the Marketing and how it had Teased the Xenomorphs was something that FOX felt would get more to see it than Prometheus.

But then we get to the Critical Response...

Which is where the Character Development was not Fleshed Out enough, and NOT executed much and it seemed Everyone was just a Footnote/Plot Device to tell the STORY about David and Walter.... which i think a lot of Fans felt the Emphasis was Too Much on them...

The Xenomorph only had a Smaller Role, i dont think it can be blamed for the Failings, the Neomorph too, there was just not enough TIME spent on such Monsters...  The movie was quite like Star Wars Rise of Skywalker... it seemed like there was too much being Crammed into ONE movie where a lot was just Filler to the Main Objective... which for SW EP9 was Rey/Ben and Palpatine....

So with AC it was mainly about David and his Agenda/Actions and then Walter/Xenomorph.. everything else was just like FILLER...  Characters just never seemed interesting really...  Oram, Faris, Lope all seemed to be more interesting than Daniels and Tennessee.

The Biggest Pitfall came 3 FOLD! in addition to Character Execution.

1) The Movie teased the Origins of the Xenomorph but then gave revelations that it was the Project/Creation of a Lonely Bored Android who DISLIKED the Engineers and Humans.  Which Totally took the Enigma/Mystery of the Xenomorph away... was this a BIG F-U to the Fanboys?

2) Engineers are what some Fans expected to see, especially as the setting would be a Engineer World, and while the Planet 4 Engineers never lived up to some Fans Expectations and it lacked the Bio-Mechanical Feel.. i think the Biggest Problem is that the Engineers basically played even LESS a Impact/Role than the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus...  Some Fans wanted to know more and see more and what we got was the Engineers Brushed Under the Carpet.

3) Dr Shaw... again Brushed under the Carpet even more so than the Engineers and only shown as a Corpse... some Fans never liked her Character, some was looking forwards to seeing her.. i think if her Character was Broken it could be FIXED by showing how the Traumatic Events of Prometheus had Affected her... 

I am sure some Fans were left Puzzled by Prometheus as to WHY they never got Answers for the Xenomorph or saw any in the Movie.... But Prometheus was to NOT be a ALIEN Movie, not as far as to GIVE away such Answers.

But Prometheus was to SET UP some other Questions... of which Dr Shaw would surely be the Proxy for us to getting them Answered...

*Why did they Create us? and Visit us?

*Why did they Change their Minds and want to Destroy us?

So fans (of Prometheus) would be expecting that Dr Shaw would have at least MET some Engineers for Answers... or at least to ASK the Questions...   Also i am sure Fans would have been interested to see WHICH WAY the Relationship between Dr Shaw and David would go!

And so to have the Engineers and Dr Shaw's Roles basically TRASHED.... was upsetting for Prometheus Fans... for the ALIEN and more so ALIENS Fans then the Xenomorph scenes were NOT long enough and they had been Turned into a Abomination via the Revelation that David had done it.

That's a nice concept work, BigDave. I've not seen that one before. I wonder if it's a coincidence that it bears a strong resemblance to a cross-section diagram of an organic eye, with the lens at the top.

It could be that the window might just be there to provide illumination. Everybody likes a bit of natural light, right?

You're right, the pilot chair does look awesome, and maybe some details are best left as a mystery. It could be, for example, that it has multiple purposes.

As for how the 'telescope' receives its input, it could indeed receive signals from remote sensors. Alternatively, it could be using advanced alien technology, something like imaging neutrinos rather than light. You could put a neutrino telescope at the centre of a planet and its view of the cosmos would be unhindered. Virtually everything in the universe looks like glass to a neutrino including, perhaps, the hull of the juggernaut.

The quotes below were directed to BigDave but please allow me to respond to a few of them.

"I would rather have a Rogue One of the Alien franchise than another robot movie."

That's a great idea Thoughts_Dreams.  

A few of the Alien novels and comics released resemble what I believe you mean by that.  A couple of examples of relatively Android-free, non-Ripley, character-driven pieces are certainly the Alien: Prototype, Alien: River of Pain, and Alien: Echo.  

These quotes shown below from above are very funny (humor, no disrespect).  The part where you can tolerate David in a destroyed Bishop state only ads to how funny the quotes are.

No David!: "Sorry but I do not want David as a main-character, it is boring and I am tired of it."

No David!!: "The sooner he dies the better. David is just evil and he is an android"

No David!!!": "David...Main Character" No thanks, I do not want a movie like that. They can forget my money if so."

Alien Independent Story, We need Zorn!

If I were given a choice on what story would be put to film next, them I might choose the Aliens: Advent/Terminus comic.  The character Zorn, a chest-buster survivor, would most likely steal the show.  

From what I could tell, the comic is hard to nail down in the Alien timeline and it could fit as an independent support story much like Rouge One.

I cite Alien: Echo above because of the Bishop in Alien 3 reference you mention (broken David in a trash pile is ok, that's a scream).  This novel might be the absolute best combination to what I believe you seek in a new story made to film.  

The story takes part on a new planet that has outlawed synthetics, Xenomorphs spawn from multiple species, and the progressive-futuristic city under the dome meets unanticipated peril.  It's wonderful.

Ingeniero: Thanks! The same to you

I have not read the AC novel but maybe I could try to get it although to be honest I have not decided about that yet. I like that quote that you put there, I like that kind of writing. ADF has been writing for many years so I am not surprised that he is good with words at least that part is written well. You know how you can read pages in books when you look at Amazon? It kind of reminded me about that. Maybe it could have been better but at least it shows that David did not create the first monster. Just for that part alone I bet that the book is better than the movie. Maybe they could go through the novelization and try to correct things if they are about to make another one? At least they could try to correct the things that most people are not happy with but that is not to say that they need to listen to every little detail.

My two biggest wishes for the next movie if they will make one is:

• Better characters
• Do not have David as the creator of the Xeno because it is bad, lame, whatever word that you can come up with

BD

Oh, I would also like to see how they are connected to the Juggernaught and the Xeno but I would also like to know more about their culture, and so on. There are many things that you could do with it and I am not sure that Prometheus killed everyone's interest in it even though they could have executed the idea about the Engineers in a better way.

For example about something about the non-warfare thing about the Engineers that is interesting is the scene with the sacrificial Engineer. This is something about them that is not about kicking ass but it is interesting because it says something about their culture. You mention what it should be about, at least it is kind of close to the SJ which was interesting. You can say that David is a part because he is an android and that for example Bishop was interesting but at the same time the legacy of the SJ has a bigger impact of the story than the legacy of the androids (Engineers-SJ-monsters versus David-Ash-Bishop). If you make a better connection between the Engineers and the SJ and the Xeno it could work.

"… LV-223 Angry Engineers, Juggernaught Ships, and Black Goo/Eggs and Engineer Weapons like this."

I would like to see that but at the same time there are other things that they could have about them. They got to make them interesting and to have them making sense because I am not sure that Prometheus did that because they removed the subtitles that could have explained more what they are about. Not sure who's idea that it was to remove the subtitles but whoever was responsible for that made a crappy decision (not sure if was because of Scott, Fox, or whoever).

"That Vision being about Playing God, Sub-Creation and attempting to Create Perfection which can become a Hubris when you Create Something that you cant Control or that Rebels."

I think that the idea is alright but it could have been a better story and closer to Alien. The connection of the Xenos and the Engineers could have been interesting if we think about this but then we might never get to see that.

"… but it would have likely had David be shown to attempt to become his OWN Creator!"

But that could mean that it would still be about David right? That could mean that we still would have ended up with the disappointment that Alien Covenant became. I would rather have no movie at all if that would be the alternative.

". . . see we gave them Xenomorphs and the Movie still did-not go down well"

That is hardly why Alien Covenant was not very good. If that is his way of thinking then he does not understand the importance of characters since he mostly talks about the Xenos and his dislike for them and David means that he still does not or at least underestimates the importance of relatable human characters.

"Sounds Plain Stupid?"

Scientifically it might work but story-wise it sucks balls.

BD

Not sure if I am that interested in the Covenant as a thing unless they get some interesting characters. I do not care what David does next. He could play the flute and some instruments like an orchestra and I would not care ("not a simple tune", LMAO!).  

Sorry but I do not want David as a main-character, it is boring and I am tired of it. Not interested in Daniels or Tennessee since none of them have any personality that I can see at least (not like Ripley, 85, Morse, Bishop, or Burke, for example). If someone can explain to me in a way that makes sense of how they are as characters then please try but I can not say that because they are like blank slates, crappy. For example I can tell you how the main characters in Star Wars (original trilogy) are but I could not tell you about most of the characters in AC because they have no personality. Hopefully they can get some of the colonists right, that would not be too much to ask for so they can make up for P and AC.

"The BIGGER Problem seems to be Fans are not interested in a Movie about David again…"

I do not give a single shit about that, sorry if this comes off as harsh but it is my honest opinion. The sooner he dies the better. David is just evil and he is an android, I need to have someone to support.

"UNLESS.... we do a Aftermath Movie.…"

They could have him like Bishop in Alien 3. You speak about new characters, well they did that in Alien and Alien and that worked you just got to have a writer that knows how to do that and for that you need someone completely new. No one of the writers have been able to do that this far in the prequels at least from how it has been shown on the screen, not sure if the writers alone are to be blamed for it or if Scott also is responsible in some way.

"… means that David would have to be Considered a Main Character…"

No thanks, I do not want a movie like that. They can forget my money if so. Hopefully someone at Disney or whatever they are named will tell them that it is a bad idea and put a stop to the crap that we have now.

I would rather have a Rogue One of the Alien franchise than another robot movie. I am not sure how that would work but it must be better than the prequels, the AVPs, and AR.

"So it is a PICKLE.... we have to ACCEPT that it would be down to David's Agenda as FAR as what happens NEXT."

I will not accept it because. . . it is shit.

". . . would mainly be about WHAT KIND of World he would want to BUILD."

Weeellll I don't care. It would probably in general be a world suited for a robot high on power but probably not much else. Some might find that thing to be interesting but not me.

"So it would seem those Characters would have played quite a ROLE in the Next Installment…"

They are not well-written so I am not very interested unless they give them some personality but that should have been done in Covenant. If you shall make people interested you got to introduce them in a good way where you see how they are as characters but we learned almost nothing of that in a movie that was about 2 hours. Sure you got to have some background characters but even the main one was like that. *sigh*

"Which puts the Efforts of the Prequels prior as a WASTE of Time!"

That would still be a better choice I think, that is just my opinion though.

Ali81

I totally agree that they have made a mess out of it because it could have been so much better. David has become less interesting because of AC, I do not want another more about him. No more rape-y robot movies. Daniels is not a very interesting character, I still try to figure out how she is as a character. She is not well written but they failed with characters in AC in general, as well as with Prometheus. If you would ask any alien fan how Daniels is as a character I bet that they would have a difficult time to come up with an answer. Compared to Shaw she was better because at least Shaw was not annoying.

"not so sure the Starbeast (in this Comic) would be revealed to be similar to any of HR Gigers designs, maybe it could have a MILD influence.... but i am expecting something that would be more LOVECRAFT."

That's my expectation too BigDave....similar to Elden below in that Giger's influence can be seen but nothing like the Xenomorph and Juggernaut appearances.

Amalgamation

"Looking at the Descriptions of the Starbeast in O'Bannons work then i think something like a AMALGAMATION of Image ONE and THREE of those Concepts/Art by Mavros-Thanatos would make a very ALIEN and yet Lovecratian Monster, which would suit the STARBEAST."

Yes it would.  And with the David Levy art influence seen in just the promotional release, then it will be very interesting to see what other source material they are inspired by.

Early Space Jockey Concept Art 

The theme of the comic's pages looks like a wonderful combination of what we have seen in the Prometheus and Alien films.  The early art shared above for the original concept Space Jockey is wonderful.  

This Ridleygram below shows some of the evolution in concepts as well as the Moebius Space Jockey further down (source).

Ridley Scott's Space Jockey

Moebius' Space Jockey

When taking the original Space Jockey concept art into consideration, I'd expect something closer to Moebius' Space Jockey opposed to Ridley Scott's concept in the new Starbeast comic.

Indeed, i have mentioned before that maybe the SHIP has some kind of Sensory Devices all over the Ship or some way that anything can be Captured from outside the SHIP and sent to the Telescopic Device and so it Acts more like a Viewing Screen. 

This Concept Work for Prometheus which i had not seen before does seem to Indicate as such.

This Gives a Indication of the Pilot Chamber Room Scale

Here was the Original Concept for what became the Space Jockey, i dont think that this Comic will be trying to COPY what we had in ALIEN, and i think its more likely they would use ORIGINAL designs or they would take Influences from the Oridginal Concepts (before HR Giger)

====Alien 1976 Draft ====

So ORIGINALY the DEAD Pilot was Very Alien in which that Concept Work by Ron Cobb seems to show, and i would ASSUME that the Dark Horse Comic will give us a Pilot who is VERY ALIEN and less Humanoid looking than the Space Jockey.

Looking at Ron Cobb's design i can see some similarities with some of the ART done by Artist Mavros-Thanatos

The First TWO i can see a slight similarity to Ron Cobb's Skeletal Alien.  The THIRD does have that Insect like look that Ron Cobb's design for the Starbeast had a bit.. but his design was a bit Comical.

I certainly think the HEAD of the First TWO Images if we made a AMALGAMATION of them would give us something similar to what Ron Cobb's Skeleton would like when it was ALIVE.

Looking at the Descriptions of the Starbeast in O'Bannons work then i think something like a AMALGAMATION of Image ONE and THREE of those Concepts/Art by Mavros-Thanatos would make a very ALIEN and yet Lovecratian Monster, which would suit the STARBEAST.

I cant wait to see what the Starbeast and the Alien Pilot will look like, it will be Interesting to see what Guilherme Balbi  comes up with.

I think in Context to the OT.

I am not so sure the Starbeast (in this Comic) would be revealed to be similar to any of HR Gigers designs, maybe it could have a MILD influence.... but i am expecting something that would be more LOVECRAFT.

It will be interesting to see if the Reveal would have some Inspirations from the Original Concept Works before they got HR Giger aboard.

"Love the Starbeast Poster too.  Good job."

Well its only a EDIT... i took one of the Prometheus Poster designs i found on the Internet and i Cut a Xenomorph Mouth Out and Placed it over the Poster and Merge/Blended the Lines a little.

I thought it was a Interesting yet different Space Jockey Design, that reminded me a little of some of the Ultramorph Designs, so i thought what would this look like with a Ultramorph/Xenomorph Mouth.

I also think this Combined design could work for the Space Jockey if we ever revealed it was NOT a Engineer.. But i cant see that Happening.

Regarding the Fresco i always felt it reminded me of this, Prometheus Punishment Fresco

The Connection to the MURAL?  I always saw the Mural was to show this DEACON was the Perfected Result of Various Experiments they Conducted, and ONCE they had achieved this ORGANISM they Sacrificed its DNA into those URNS.

Where does the Fresco FIT?  I think this could be some Precursor to the Xenomorph/Deacon DNA..  This Organism became like a Punishment for those Engineers, but then from this Punishment/Hubris they saw it had Potential and they Re-Engineered it to Create Various Experiments of which the Mural became one of those.

Fresco = Organism they had NOT created but saw the Effects of its Life-Cycle and Infection.

Various things in Mural which include those TWO Face Huggers was the Engineers Various Experiments that related/came from Experimenting with the Fresco Organism.

Mural Organism = A Result the Engineers felt was Perfect or Desired, that was then the Basis of whats in the Black Goo in those URNS.

That was my Interpretation... prior to Alien Covenant.

BigDave the electric chair comparison above is great...I missed it on the first pass and caught it while reading back over the comments.  That's so funny.

I love the Starbeast Poster too.  Good job.

"Royal" Engineer

The below images are what we looked at a while back when reviewing what I called the "Royal" above.  The image was enhanced to bring out the detail in his garments which looked royal to me.  

The Starbeast images you shared above do have similarities with the Royal Engineer beast crouched over, seemingly at the end of his arm.  For those who haven't seen egg photos below, they are from the same Prometheus art book.

Enhanced LV-223 Mural

What exactly does this depict and is the above beast in it?

The connection to the David Levy Prometheus concept art is wonderful and it would be nice to see something similar to the Levy art below as well in the comics.

The creature on the cover does look like it is sitting on a throne.

Thanks,

Def' not Project X but thanks anyway.

Seems like the movie has dissipated off the face of the earth. Despite airing on national Australian TV, many years ago.

Probably for depicting cruelty to animals and realistic (possible real footage ) 

As previously mentioned the astronaut training was very realistic, and believable which consisted of at least 1hr & half of training.

"The creature on the cover seems to have a bird like head"

It kind of does, but it also seems to look like it is some kind of Mask, and like a Tunic that both have a WOODEN look to them like they are from some Satanic Ritual.

The Mural from Prometheus did remind me a little of O'Bannon's concept for the Starbeast.

 I think it would have been INTERESTING to introduce a STARBEAST into the Franchise, i had thought of a Few Ideas on how to do so, and something Aesthetically based on a Modified ULTRAMORPH could be interesting.

The part about chimpanzees dying sounds alot like the 1987 film "Project X" (which I have not seen), but I'm not sure about everything involving astronauts. Sorry if this didn't help, but hopefully you find the film.

You're most welcome daliens.  

This drawing below from David's studies on Planet 4 looks similar to the beast above.

The creature on the cover seems to have a bird like head, which reminds me of the mural from Prometheus.

Thanks for the share Ingeniero.

Nice Catch Dark Nebula

It seems they may take some Visual Influences from Unused Concepts, but also would have their OWN take on some Designs.  The External Shot of the Derelict Ship for Instance... It almost has that look of like a CACTUS the Scale of the Ship Internally could be HUGE.

So maybe this ALIEN SPECIES will be shown to have SHIPS that appear to be Part Organic, Part Mechanical and maybe appear to be Grown...  HOW ALIEN will the Dead Pilot be?

I then WONDER if the STARBEAST Species Pyramid and Aesthetic will be something FAR LESS Technological and more like some ANCIENT BUILDING

Maybe the Dead Pilot (Space Jockey) could have a more ALIEN look, less Human but have some HR Giger Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic?

While the STARBEAST could be Very Organic, but something thats VERY much Lovecraftian?

@Ingeniero

I think that indeed any such Prequel to Alien Covenant would get Repetitive if it was just about David alone, and even with a Proportion of Interaction with Dr Shaw.

I think a lot of Fans were Hopeful to discover more about the Engineers, and so you have to think HOW can we show this..  Well what we have to remember is that David had LEARNED of their WAYS before he arrived at Planet 4, quite HOW MUCH he learned and from WHERE is interesting to Ponder.

But what we know for CERTAIN is that David would have had quite some time on Planet 4 without any Engineer Threats, and so he had become FREE to roam the City, to take a LOOK at every piece of Information, Manuscripts, Books etc of the Engineers.  It appears they WROTE some stuff down.

Ridley Scott had indicated the Cathedral Dome Building where the Hall of Heads was located, was where the Engineers had STORED all their Knowledge.  Such a place would be a Gift of a repository of Information for David.

So the Novel only has to have David come across some of this Knowledge and Begin to Read some of it, then we can CUT to a Flash Back Scene to give some details.

A Example.....

=============

INT. ENGINEER REPOSITORY

David walks among the Engineers Library of Information, seemingly Endless STONE STACKS each like Post/Mail Sorters.  He takes out one of the SCROLLS and begins to read its contents.

The Scroll Tells of a Ancient Time maybe many MILLIONS of YEARS ago, when it describes this Paradise of the Engineers was a Virgin World.  As David reads the History of this Place he discovers the Engineers Ancestors had arrived at this Place in the DISTANT PASS.  They had came to START ANEW...

FADE TO..

EXT. PRIMORDIAL WORLD

Among the Clouds of this Very Familiar World we see a SHADOW and a RUMBLING like THUNDER.  But this is NO NATURAL SOUND, it is MECHANICAL.  

The OBJECT now comes into view, it is  SHIP the VERY SAME KIND from PROMETHEUS...  The SHIP casts a Shadow over the Lake that lies at the Bottom of a WATERFALL

The SHIP begins to Descend upon a FLAT AREA just of a RIDGE by the  WATERFALL.  They are TOUCHING DOWN.

Dropping behind the RIDGE to a RIVER DELTA - RUSHING WATER as we HEAR A  TOOTH-RATTLING SOUND -- MECHANICAL.  All of a SUDDEN a METAL PLATFORM hits the FLOOR.. CLANK!

THREE FIGURES appear at the TOP of the PLATFORM they are ROBBED MEN or so they APPEAR.

As they walk down the PLATFORM we see FOUR MORE start to ADVANCE from behind them.

We ZOOM in on the FIGURES HUMAN and YET NOT --- TALL about EIGHT FEET TALL at least, BALD with NO SIGNS of any other Hair.  They all LOOK like OLD MEN, apart from ONE who appears to be YOUTHFUL

====================

I could go on, but the idea would be to show a EXTENDED Shot of the SACRIFICIAL SCENE with some Dialog between the Engineers to give us a Indication of whats going on.  We then have the Engineers Return to the Ship and it RISES UP.

Then we go to describe the Engineers Last Moments, the LONELY WALK to the WATERFALL.  We END this FLASH BACK as the Engineer arrives at the END OF the Waterfall and looks at the Sacrificial Bowl.

We then CUT BACK to David.

So you could use things like this to take us BACK to some Flash Backs for a Visual Explanation to what David has discovered.

Any dialog between David and Dr Shaw could have her ASK him something and as he goes onto EXPLAIN.. we CUT TO A FLASHBACK.

Amazing find Dark Nebula.  Very nice Chris.  

Thank you to you both. I'm really excited too and even more so now after the David Levy catch.

David Levy Prometheus Concept Art

This below is tough news for the brand as well, below, and related to Cold Iron Studios.

"Dark Horse Cancels Brian Wood’s Aliens: Colonial Marines: Rising Threat Over New Allegations

Dark Horse has confirmed to Bleeding Cool that the upcoming Aliens: Colonial Marines: Rising Threat written by Wood scheduled for September will no longer be published and they will no longer be pursuing new comic book projects with Wood." (source)

Dark Horse Comics

"Aliens Colonial Marines: Rising Threat delves into the formative years of the Colonial Marines. Tying into the events of the upcoming Cold Iron Studios videogame, this new series introduces Olivia Shipp, leader of a squad of battle-weary Marines who have defied orders to rescue the survivors of a refinery under siege." (source, Dark Horse’s Press Release)

This sucks because Aliens: Colonial Marines: Rising Threat tied together the novel Alien: Echo and the Colonial Marines story with the character Olivia Shipp and would most likely help promote the Cold Iron Studios Alien game as well.

Excellent find, thanks for sharing! I've also used our new "Front Page" feature option now available in the forums and have made a copy of this thread on the homepage - here's the link. 

Really excited for this!

I really hope this doesn't mean the untitled Alien title Cold Iron Studios are working on will be another BS mobile app...