New Replies (Page 176)

I haven't read the scripts, but having a pyramid instead of the Derelict would be interesting to see- reminds a bit of Giger's silo. 

Cool! more books...need to keep this line of the series going.

"Explain to WHY the Engineers would want to bother with the Xenomorph and be as STUPID to keep one on their Homeworld."

Humans keep all sorts of dangerous animals(and violent criminals) alive. We could probably exterminate all dangerous critters if we wanted too?(tigers/lions/bears/etc... Along with all the atom bombs and chemical weapons....but that's not going to happen..humans are smart enough not to destroy the means of their destruction.

Human hubris or Engineer hubris?

"iv said it before and my opinion doesn't change about the direction RS after Prometheus. he simply sold out his vision."

I think its a case of FOX did not like his Vision and wanted to make a Legitimate Alien Prequel and so RS likely just tried to IMPRINT some of his Vision into the PLOT.

That Vision being about Playing God, Sub-Creation and attempting to Create Perfection which can become a Hubris when you Create Something that you cant Control or that Rebels.

It will be interesting to come across the Earlier Abandoned Drafts where the Sequel to Prometheus was on HOLD until they brought in Dante Harper and John Logan... and by that i mean it would be interesting to see what STATE the Story was in when Micheal Green had taken the reigns from Jack Paglen and to look at what Greens work was about.

I would be WILLING to Bet that at this Point it was NOT going to Connect to ALIEN or explain the Derelict but it would have likely had David be shown to attempt to become his OWN Creator!

And so with FOX wanting the Xenomorph and a Prequel to Connect to ALIEN, then maybe RS could have been a bit Disappointed about NOT being able to Steer Away from those Eggs and Derelict and to revolve around Creation/Hubris and Engineers...

So maybe he was like "you want Fecking Aliens.. i give you Fecking Aliens... and i make David the Creator and see how you like your Spoon Fed Prequel NOW" ;)

so RS could go to FOX and be like "see we gave them Xenomorphs and the Movie still did-not go down well"

Which is why i think he mentioned in a Interview after Alien Covenant, that he Felt there was ONLY so much Snarling and Face Pulling you could do... and that he was AHEAD of the Curve with Prometheus.

You can sense he had MUCH BIGGER plans for the Franchise as far as to STEER AWAY from Alien, and so it seems he was not too pleased with the Direction..

But none the less FOX felt the Fans wanted their Answers to WHERE did the Xenomorph come from and HOW did those EGGS get on the Derelict.

And who knows..... we cant 100% Rule Out that David would had been revealed as the Space Jockey ;)

Sounds Plain Stupid?   Not if we Consider what a Ultimate Achievement of A.I and Genetic Engineering can Achieve...  we have to THINK about what Weyland had hoped to have Achieved?  a Magical Serum that would turn him back to a 40 Year Old Man... and Remain Immortalized in this FORM?

Or Speculatively are there others ways that maybe ONE could be given more LIFE or some what Immortality?

A Big Clue also being how RS had claimed those Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals and Live for about 150 Years... they definitely dont look like the Superior Looking Prometheus Engineers who live for Thousands of Years (Original Idea/Concept)

Come to think of it the ONLY real Human in the Franchise who maybe has some what of a Immortality is RIPLEY 8 ;)

I will add that the COVER is very Interesting.... but i would also add that sometimes Covers can have little to do with what we will see. The Prometheus Fire and Stone First Issue Covers being a PRIME Example.

Regardless looking at the Cover here, what we see is a Humanoid Figure that is Sitting on a Throne that has some Very Ritual/Cultist look to it.

Looking at the Hands we can Clearly see this is NOT a Human, or at least is No Longer a Human.

The Starbeast Plot as far as a Little Background was about the Pyramid being a Ritual Temple that is Dedicated to the Procreation/Birthing Ritual of the Starbeast that were described as a Tentacled Species...

And so maybe we are NOT seeing a Throne... but some Apparatus to Incapacitate a Host!

I think we have to accept that the PREQUEL route had Changed with Alien Covenant in that this Movie was to STEER us to the Back Door of ALIEN.

Ridley Scott had indicated to us that there would be at LEAST another TWO Movies before we arrive at ALIEN.

We are like 17.5 Years before the Nostromo arrives at LV-426 and as of 17.5 Years prior then it would seem there are NO EGGS or Derelict on LV-426.

They could ABANDON the Sequel and NOT explore what becomes of the Covenant....   But what kind of Movie do they give us then?

A Mission to LV-223, a Mission to LV-426 a Mission to Planet 4 and all where they could reveal the Xenomorph was Ancient?

You would have to introduce us to NEW Characters, and so its a case of if we ABANDON the Covenant/David and go for a Movie like above...  what would be the PAY OFF for just ONE Movie where we introduce NEW Characters?  The only PAY OFF would be purely to U-TURN and show the Derelict/Xenomorph was on LV-426 for Thousands of Years..

Which puts the  Efforts of the Prequels prior as a WASTE of Time!

The Intention was to Continue with what a Happens to the Covenant Next, which then brings us to that Daniels Dilemma!

Can you continue with just Tennessee as the Surviving Character and the Colonist as soon as the OPENING Title has Ended?

So it is a PICKLE.... we have to ACCEPT that it would be down to David's Agenda as FAR as what happens NEXT.

With RS indicating that the Movie would NOT be about Xenomorphs... (that does not mean it wont have any) but that it would mainly be about WHAT KIND of World he would want to BUILD.

So if he is NOT just going to use the Colonist to FARM many many Xenomorphs.... then its a case of WHAT is he going to be up to? 

I think looking into the Themes behind Alien Covenant and Prometheus its clear to see that Sub-Creation is the KEY element, and so it likely would be WHAT would David try to Create Next.

Katherine Waterstone did here that there was some INTERESTING things in store for her Character... but she also admitted that she could just as much end up in a BODY BAG.   So it would seem those Characters would have played quite a ROLE in the Next Installment...

Welcome Aboard ;)

The Egg on Planet 4

Indeed it seems that page 243 is something that ADF had added that was NOT any part of the Drafts...

I dont think it was the BEST way to try and Discredit the David Creator Plot!

If we look at the Movie and Drafts then it seems that the Engineers have NOTHING related to the Xenomorph on Planet 4 and HOW STUPID would that be for them to keep something related on Planet 4

Considering the Drafts, the Movie and the Work Shop and David's Notes.... then a Prequel Novel to Alien Covenant would surely be covering the Process of HOW it was that David had Experimented on the Neomorph, and used the Black Goo to Engineer his OWN version of it that he had managed to Obtain Various Traits from Various Organisms to MERGE into his Masterpiece.

Even though this is a BITTER PILL for many to Swallow!

To attempt to CHANGE this by making a Prequel Novel i do hope that its well thought out... and to explain WHY it is David had put all the Effort, when he had FOUND a EGG as it was.... and then hopefully it explains WHY the Engineers would have KEPT such a THING!

I hope that we wont go on to explore the other Juggernaughts, or a Underground Facility where the Engineers Keep Thousands of Eggs.... and then Reveal that this is the SOLE purpose of the Engineers to Sacrifice themselves for the Xenomorph and THEN to NOT give a Good Reason for doing so!

Seems to me that ADF was simply NOT happy about the Xenomorph Origins and unlike many of us... he was working on a Novel and so could attempt to do something about it.

The Manner of how he done so.. i feel was not that Imaginative or thought out!

The Question that would have to be ANSWERED would be WHY THE HELL and WHERE would then Engineers keep a EGG in the Cathedral?

If they explore a David did-not create it Change of Plan... hopefully they can FIND a better way to Explain to WHY the Engineers would want to bother with the Xenomorph and be as STUPID to keep one on their Homeworld.

A Good Way to do this would be to LOOK at what Reason would they want with the Xenomorph... and explore something that shows their use is MORE than for KILLING!

I think looking at RIPLEY 8 would be the BEST way to go ;)

"Look you can't introduce main players in the last movie of the trilogy without them ever being mentioned before"

I think thats a Great Point ;)  sometimes you can get away with it, but most of the times its not a wise way to go...

I have mentioned this as FAR as how do we Continue?

We have to assume the Plan would be to FOLLOW the Covenant Ship which means that David would have to be Considered a Main Character, and so if we are looking at a Sequel that Continues from Alien Covenant and so its about the COVENANT SHIP then you have to take the Story Forwards from that.

So we are left with Daniels and Tennessee as far as WHO we are Familiar with, there are Thousands of Colonist and its a case of do we see some of them become Main Characters?

If we had  Alternative Ending where WALTER is indeed the Survivor and DAVID is Dead....  then what we would have is Daniels and Tennessee revealed after KILLING off the Xenomorph and their NEXT course of Action would be to go to Oriage-6 and Put the NIGHTMARE of what Happened in the Past and we should see them LAND on Origae-6 and then begin to Set-Up the Colony.

But we know that WALTER did not make it and so DAVID is in Control of the Ship and the PLOT is at the Mercy of what he wishes to do NEXT.

The DILEMMA they have is the reveal that Daniels Discovers who David is at the END of the Movie, and while this was done to HELP us to Gauge the Horror that she would FEEL on making this Discovery and being Helpless to do anything about it.

If Davids plan is to awaken the Colonist and Experiment on them ONE at a TIME then what Daniels knows makes NO Difference...  what kind of a Movie does that make? and how would she play a ROLE?  to be shown that she Escapes and Awakens the others (Survivors) and WARNS them of David?

But of David is going to go to Origae-6 and allow the Colonist to begin to BUILD their Colony, then David surely cant led Daniels survive... or at least let come into contact with the Colonist....  But such a Plot could WORK if we have Daniels being kept Hidden and the Discovery/Escape of her would ALERT the Colonist to WHO the Android on the Ship really is..

The BIGGER Problem seems to be Fans are not interested in a Movie about David again... but how can you have a Movie where he is KILLED off Early or prior to the Movie, and then Continue?  With Daniels and Tennessee as Characters to then take us to do what they want NEXT?  There would have to be some DANGER and this would come from David!

So you would have to CARRY those Characters Over, or at least TWO of them.... which ONE has to be David....

UNLESS.... we do a Aftermath Movie....

But as you say ignorantguy this could mean introducing completely NEW characters... which would NOT really work if we have just ONE more Movie or if we have a Movie that also BOMBS that leaves NO Continuation...

What a PICKLE we are in :(

I think it will be interesting to see what they do with this Version of ALIEN, it will likely be based of the O'Bannon and Shusett earlier Alien Revision after it was Starbeast (but that Story remains the same)  and prior to Hill and Giler getting involved.

So there would be some Differences and it would be Interesting to see HOW much of the Earlier Idea is Kept and HOW much stuff that Dark Horse will add/change.

It would appear they could be using their own Visual Aesthetic, and i think with a LITTLE a hint to HR Giger would save them having to deal with the HR Giger Estate.

I will say looking at the Pages shared in the OT it looks a VERY ALIEN Design which is Nice to see ;)

It will be interesting to see HOW the ALIEN CREATURES would be Depicted, and if it will take any NODS to the other (non HR Giger) Concepts... and by ALIEN Creatures i mean the Dead Pilot as well as the Starbeast Organism.

It will be interesting to see how the Starbeast if you would will be Portrayed as far as how much is shown of the Species Ritual Birthing Chamber and Indications of them ONCE being a Intelligent/Civilized of sorts Species.

So it will be interesting to see WHAT the Movie ALIEN could have ENDED UP like had it NOT had Giler and Hill have their Influence on it and also HR Giger's.

Their Contributions are what made ALIEN what it was, but Certainly the Initial Idea does come from O'Bannon and Shusett and there was some Interesting Differences with their Original Idea/Vision.

ali81 You know it, admit it! David is the Space Jockey!

ali81 Look you can't introduce main players in the last movie of the trilogy without them ever being mentioned before. That is so stupid. Just look to how the Rise of Skywalker went down.

Shaw was killed because of the change of corporate leadership at Fox, now with Disney knows what screw up will they offer on plate for people to serve.

That is explained a little more clearly later in the article Leto.  Great point on Roby...very Ripleyish in many situations in Starbeast, example below.

dk Alien made more than 19 times than it's production cost. Aliens only 11 times. Now this movies apeared in a time when total income was harder to quantify.

Prometheus was the third most profitable from the Alien series. If it did not met expectations why did Fox give the same budget for Ridley to make Covenant? Ultimately he made it with less as he cut 3d and other stuff.

The Martian made more money than every of the new Star Trek reboot movies. Even Prometheus made more than 2 of them, and was more profitable then the rest.

For me, the conclusion could be that horror movies with creatures in them fare not particularly well. Let's see how the sequel fares. 

Thank you!!

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Ripley=Roby

The biggest difference, as far as I know, is that O'Bannon's script didn't have androids and a corporate conspiracy.

It would be more correct to say: "So, what exactly are the differences between O'Bannon's version and the one eventually Walter Hill & David Giler?

It seems the movie did not meet box office expectations. Is it really a surprise? Alien and The Thing 1982 didn't fare so well but are beyond cult classics to this day.

And lst we forget, Prometheus and AC didn't quite meet expectations either.

Come to think of it, not many sci fi movies outside Star Wars, Star Trek or super hero movies have done really well.

I will buy Underwater when it comes out on DVD. I will be late to the party, but oh well. 

I think RS continuing with the franchise is wishful thinking, but it could continue branching out in other forms. Underwater seems to have some possibilities. Mini series could go different ways too. Others like novels and comics as well. Judging by box office numbers, it's hard to see the franchise continue on the big screen.

I am sad to say but imo I think the whole wonder that we may have possibly seen (RS shown some balls) of the engineers is dead. the backstory of who they truly are, where theyr from, theyr connection to the original alien and all the other visions and routes possible for them after Prometheus has been completely ditched and theyl just be in the next one as plot and time filler. iv said it before and my opinion doesn't change about the direction RS after Prometheus. he simply sold out his vision. iv watched AC twice n there wont be a third. but hey, not like the big guy in the chair, who was he and his relationship to the eggs was ever a major reason to make the prequels..oh wait...............

Welcome and happy new year Thoughts_Dreams.

The Alien: Covenant Origins novel was heavy on character development and didn't reveal Walter until the very end.  Alan Dean Foster did great with that one too.  

If this novel is an Alien story about Planet 4, then he could certainly explain how the Engineers are notified of David's works or go into the history of the egg that was used as a template in the lab on Planet 4.  

There is quite a bit there other than an android's work that Foster could devote time to.  The Alien: Covenant novelization opened up an opportunity to explain the history of Planet 4.

The Egg on Planet 4

"Quite something, that’s for sure, Oram muttered. He continued to gaze at the egg thing and its contents. As patiently lifeless as it was, it still manage to send a quiver of fear through here.

"Oh captain." David shake his head sadly. "Acknowledge beauty when you see it. Even if it’s appearance disturbs you, surely you could admire the skill that went into its design. In case you were wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the Engineers skill. And also, I suppose of their hubris."

"Would that I could create something so perfect in its function, he added. I try, but I don’t have thousands of years of practice at biological and genetic engineering. I only have my pitiable programming on which to draw. That, and 10 years of earnest effort on my own behalf. I have learned only a little, yet a soldier on, hoping all ways to achieve something like this, always striving to do better, to improve. That’s what the engineers did, I suppose.That is what someone playing God should do."

Alien: Covenant novelization page 243.

"I am sorry but I laugh when you mention AVPR"

Thats what i was saying.... AVPR made a Mockery of the Xenomorph.... but for Fans they can Pretend it Never Happened like i do with The Predator ;)

I think you have to be Careful with the Xenomorph as i think there is only so much you can do as far as Queen = Eggs..... before it can get STALE... you would be HARD pushed to make another ALIEN/ALIENS and your more likely to make another AVP/AVPR as far as Portrayal of the Xenomorph

As far as the Engineers i would say a Majority who would have Time for them would want to see them as far as WHY they are Connected to the Juggernaught Ships and Xenomorph and what KICK ASS sorts of Technology they have... much like how Fans like how the Predators are shown.

And LESS would be Willing to see the Engineers as far as the WHOLE Gods/Creators and Ancient Stuff... they be like that SHOULD-NOT be what the ALIEN Franchise is about...

But then RS had intended to Expand on the Engineers to make a Spin Off Franchise that is NOT about ALIEN.

If we do see the Engineers again... i DOUBT we would explore their Culture/History and it would purely be like Comics... so it be LV-223 Angry Engineers, Juggernaught Ships, and Black Goo/Eggs and Engineer Weapons like this.

"The idea that David started it sucks and should never have been in the movie at all"

I agree with that, but this came about from FOX not wanting to do the kind of Movie that RS intended that would have STEERED AWAY from the Xenomorph....

Could RS had agreed to give the Xenomorph but add the David as Creator as a BIG .... F-U to Fans who he may think are a reason he had to make a ALIEN Prequel and not go to do what he wanted to do "they want Aliens, i give them $£%$^$ Aliens" as he said.

A thing to remember is Hill and Giler have a MASSIVE say in the Franchise and they did want there ALIEN made which indicated the Xenomorph was a Weyland Yutani Creation but RS had fought HARD to maintain much of O'Bannon's and Shusett's Original Ideas contained.

So maybe Hill/Giler added the David had Created the Xenomorph idea.... and RS just felt it was Interesting as far as a Curve Ball and FITTED with the Broader Themes of Prometheus.

The SAD thing is they have kind of DUG themselves into a Corner....i dont mind if the Novel would try and indicate that David could not have Created the Xenomorph as long is they give a Good Explanation to WHY he thinks he Created a Masterpiece and WHY the Engineers would have a EGG on Planet 4.... unless ADF explains that the EGG came from somewhere else (not Planet 4) i just hope we dont get a HALF ARSED and LAZY way to discredit the David as Creator Plot.

For me the David Creator Plot should remain as far as all he had done is Create the Proto-Type and the Engineers in a Sequel would EVOLVE his Creation.

I guess they could BLOMKAMP what we saw in Alien Covenant like what would have Happened to Alien 3... as in OH... Alien Covenant never really HAPPENED!

But i dont think that would be GOOD.... i think we have to Accept Alien Covenant and try and Repair/Evolve the Damage than to just BRUSH it under the Carpet... but i know that UPSETS a LOT of Fans who see the Eggs come out of the BACKSIDE of a Queen ;)

if the ship is indeed bio-mechanical in nature then perhaps it is a form of interface between what the ship sees/ senses and the helmet of the pilot. the ships information is collected in the telescope like device and transformed into a 3D holographic projection inside the pilots helmet. when he makes a course correction, the device relays the relevant information to the ship. this would negate the need for windows

Regarding the MURAL in Prometheus it seems it maybe never had any Purpose, it was NEVER in any of the Drafts.

There has been some Conflicting Reports on it... One Suggesting there was NEVER any intended Connection, and it was purely a TRIBUTE to HR Giger.  The other which was made by someone who worked on the MURAL had suggested again it had no real Purpose but that it was showing the Deacon.

So it seems there was NEVER any real reason or purpose to those Face Huggers, there was NO reason they was there to show any kind of Connection or to play a CLUE to what was going on.   By that those who Ordered the Mural to be Designed and those who Worked on it, NEVER had any Explanation or Story for WHY those Face Huggers would be there, they were Simply a NOD to HR Giger and so a Easter Egg of Sorts.

But we get things added to the Movie that done have a real baring to the PLOT, some of Davids Drawings are a Example.  Sometimes things are thrown in because they look COOL or they are Concept Works/Props that they just add in for the sake of using them with NO real Connection to the Plot or mention in any drafts.

I cant 100% Speak for ADF and the ALIEN Novel as its been like 30+ Years since i read it.  To my knowledge some of the Drafts did have the Dead Pilot (Space Jockey) but i am not 100% sure we know what Draft that ADF had based his Novel Off and Often we NEVER see the Drafts that those who Write the Novels look at.

I will have to look at the Alien Novel again, but as FAR as i am aware when working on ALIEN there was the idea of having a Space Jockey the Only Changes coming from making the Cargo/Egg Hold become something that was UNDER the Pilot Chamber that was NOT in the Drafts, and so as FAR as i am aware the Drafts had the Space Jockey.

I will say that those who work on the Official Novelizations would see a number of Scripts/Drafts but would be given a Specific One to work off.... and the Combining of the Egg Cargo and Derelict was kind of a Last Minute Change, and so its likely that ADF had already completed so much of the Novel by then, and maybe when he heard about a Scene being Scrapped he maybe thought it was the Space Jockey one and Omitted it, when in reality it was the Pyramid Scene that was Dropped.

Again i cant be 100% certain on that, i guess we have to see if ADF had ever said anything about there being NO such Space Jockey Scene in the Draft he worked of.

I do get the Impression that ADF does ADD stuff to his Novels that are NOT in the Movies or Drafts.... but then his Books Get the Green Light without him having to OMIT any additional content he adds.

Regarding Alien Covenant i think it depends on what Draft he had to base his Work Off.... who knows how many Drafts there was and WHICH of those he used..... the TWO that were Released, we NEVER had the Found as Was Egg Scene that ADF had in his Novel and so this is LIKELY something he added to the Novel that was maybe not Supported by the Drafts but again it was given the Green Light (his Novel) and so someone at FOX would surely had read it before allowing it to go to Print.

When it comes down to the Bombardment Scene this was in ONE of the TWO released Drafts, but Certainly it was NOT Scheduled to be in the Movie until Very Late and so its likely that ADF was made aware that the Movie would have NO SUCH Scene by the Time he had Nearly or Fully Finished his Novel.

for me this is just another indication of how royally they have messed this trilogy up. when we left Prometheus, they had dozens of routes to take. we all speculated multiple avenues and things wed love to see in the sequel but now, its an utter mess. worst of all, its all down to an android which for me ruins the wonder of the whole derelict scene in alien.

as far as the awful Daniels character (for me the single worst main character in either alien or predator franchise), she has to be alive in some form unfortunately (tho someone else could be cast to play the character). we have already had the un-seen, poorly explained fate of Shaw and to do the same or something similar for Daniels' fate would just be lazy and show a lack of originality so we have to get the character at least alive but maybe not whole. id like to see the morphing method return and have Daniels be in a state of morphing which I think would be a more fitting end to that character. at least that would be a level of contribution to the story.

BD

That would be a lot to fix, so much so I think that they need to totally rebuild her and if so I think that it is better to get an entirely new character or at least make better ones. She could have the screen time of Faris and have her as maybe they did with Faris (which I think was a better character now when I think of it), like a smaller role. Speaking of Faris she is the result why I now find three characters that are alright in AC

• Faris
• Oram
• Walter
• Maybe David as a counter-part to Walter but David was still a shit head

They should have kept Faris in the movie for a longer time.

As far as we know she could as well be dead by the new movie if we get another if we look at how AC ended.

He might keep her locked away and then she escapes. That is a way to keep her in the movie but I have no interest for that character the way that she is written now. She is less annoying than Shaw but I can not tell how she is as a human.

"... or we have a Movie that Revolves around Daniels and David."

Hell no, I refuse to have it centered around David, no way. That is one of the reasons why I do not like Covenant that much. Daniels did not work for me, maybe because of bad writers.

"… a Sequel that would BY-PASS what David does between leaving Planet 4 and when another group of Humans would be arriving at Origae-6.."

That could work, the question is how they will build human characters. Having a movie where they fail with that again would be very bad. I do not have much doubts in their ability to come up with a story or to make interesting sets but I very much doubt about their ability to get writers that can make characters. Star wars usually get characters right so maybe some of them can make it? Look at 7-9, they are alright for what they are it is just that they should have had more of Luke. The X-men movie usually get the characters right also at least those that I have watched (X men one and two).

They do not need to kill off Daniels but to make her character better or to reduce her role. As far as David is concerned he does not need to be given the end of Bishop, they just need to have him in a much lesser role compared to AC where the second half of the movie was all about him.

"Its then a case of HOW MANY of these New characters Survive the Next Installment, and do they make it to another Movie and HOW MANY more Movies until we get to ALIEN?"

I don't know, as long as they are sympathetic and well-written then the numbers do not matter to me. If we look at how disappointing the prequels have been this far then I very much doubt that we will get more than one until we will get to Alien in the time-line.

".... and i dont think we would get any Conclusion... more chance of a REBOOT in 2029."

Maybe, but I can not say that it would make me disappointed if that would be the case. The prequels have been mishandled since early in the process when they decided to leave out a lot of interesting stuff in Prometheus. I am not sure if that is about run-time and how much they can show it in the movie-theaters and that kind of thing but it makes the movies worse compared to what they could be.

BD

If he just means the original then maybe so, I like to see new variations of it though which I think that the prequels have managed to do despite of all their faults. Regarding comics and so on that might have contributed to it but I am not one of those that look up things that are considered expanded universe kind of things.

I am sorry but I laugh when you mention AVPR and for a good reason because it is a joke. Not only is it a joke if you look at the other alien movies but it is crap if you look at it alone.

The Engineers were interesting but I think that they should have had a better connection to the SJ and the monster. To have it just as an engineered bio-weapon could cheapen the Xeno but it could be interesting if it is done right but it is just too bad that it was not. I would rather have it being connected to the Engineers rather than having David being responsible for it.

"..... then ONCE you have the Xenomorph Origins and HOW/WHEN/WHY they Ended Up on the Derelict, its a case of WHATS NEXT?"

I agree that you can expand on it but you also need decent writers and a director that does nor interfere with the writing-process. You got to make it interesting and make sense and unfortunately they failed.

"Ridley Scott had said prior and after Alien Covenant that it was maybe a mistake to have Drifted Too Far from the Beast, he felt you could give it a FEW more Rounds, but you have to Evolve Him, you have to look at other Alternatives and ways of Procreation."

It depends on how you do it sure it was an alien prequel or maybe you could have called it a spin-off. A prequel to Alien means that you put more focus on the Xeno and a spin-off means to have less so the
Engineers fit into that.

"Regarding ALIEN it is about the Characters as we will be seeing the Horror through their Perspective, i think with ALIEN and ALIEN 3 you could replace the Xenomorph with a Neomorph or Deacon and the Movies would still have WORKED!"

I totally agree

You mentioned Star Wars, I like to see different things as long as they make sense. You mentioned different troopers and I think that is something interesting that they have done this far.

"I think there is a STORY to be Told regarding the History and Differences between them, that can be explored in a Number of Ways…"

As long as the story and characters are alright then I am open to it.

"I think you can have BOTH kinds of Engineers, and it would Work, but they have to MERGE the Ancient looking Planet 4 and the more Technological LV-223 Aesthetics…"

It kind of depends on how you do it, I think that The Lord of the Rings is a way to make it right. Maybe it could be interesting to see why the Engineers acted different, different kinds of living. That should have been better dealt with instead of just having David making some notes.

"Could we decide to then ABANDON our Technology/Ways that we had Evolved to from say the 1800's On-wards?   To DO-SO in Order that the Calamity cant be Repeated again?
Maybe we would?"

You could keep some and throw some away, it depends on what you need it for. I do not think that you can separate technology from the kind of society that you live in. Maybe you could have that in a movie in a way although I am not sure how it would be done but there were some interesting things in the buildings that we saw in Alien Covenant for even though we did not see a lot.

Maybe there is something to write about the time between Prometheus and Covenant. Hopefully it will be about more than crazy David. Maybe ADF is about to write a story like that. He seems like a good writer judging from an interview at AVP-galaxy podcast. Eventually his novel version about Covenant is better than the movie since it can not be much worse.

The more he adds that goes against David as the creator of the Xeno the better. The idea that David started it sucks and should never have been in the movie at all. If ADF is trying to go against that then good.

It would be nice if they would have something about the Engineers in the book. What did not get a lot about it in AC so hopefully there will be more information about them there. An idea is that if we will get a third movie they should not have too much in the book but then if there will not be a third one they can have as much as possible in it. There could be a third option that they are trying to release a book about the Engineers or with them in it and judging from how well that book does depends on if they will release a movie that features more of the Engineers. Hopefully the book will have them as creators of the Xeno rather than David.

Hox: I heard something about that at the AVP-galaxy podcast, that idea is crap. Let Scott make the visuals and have someone else do the writing because his ideas are not good (focusing on David, and that thing about re-growing body parts). Sure make it difficult to kill but to make it into the superman version of bugs is ridiculous.

Essentially the Mural was a Easter Egg

No. Easter eggs are in the background and do not play a role in the plot. In Prometheus, Charlie directly studies the mural.

I understand - it’s convenient to consider the mural to be an Easter egg, because it destroys David as the creator. The link to LV-426 from Prometheus additional materials may be canceled because it is not in the film, it is not on the screen. But the mural in the story, it's a part of the film.

Maybe there is something to write about the time between Prometheus and Covenant. Hopefully it will be about more than crazy David. Maybe ADF is about to write a story like that. He seems like a good writer judging from an interview at AVP-galaxy podcast. Eventually his novel version about Covenant is better than the movie since it can not be much worse.

The more he adds that goes against David as the creator of the Xeno the better. The idea that David started it sucks and should never have been in the movie at all. If ADF is trying to go against that then good.

It would be nice if they would have something about the Engineers in the book. What did not get a lot about it in AC so hopefully there will be more information about them there. An idea is that if we will get a third movie they should not have too much in the book but then if there will not be a third one they can have as much as possible in it. There could be a third option that they are trying to release a book about the Engineers or with them in it and judging from how well that book does depends on if they will release a movie that features more of the Engineers. Hopefully the book will have them as creators of the Xeno rather than David.

Ingeniero

"No Space Jockey in the Alien Novelization, Core to Prometheus"

No it's not! There is only one reason: ADF wrote a book on a script in which there was no Space Jockey. If you are familiar with the creation of the film, then you know that the studio did not want to make an expensive SJ layout for the sake of one scene. And only at the end, when the book was already written, the jockey was added to the film.

The same situation with AC, where David bombards Engineers. This scene is not in the book because it was also added to the film after writing the book.

And of course - David create ovomorphs in film/David stayed on the Covenant in the end. But not in the novel! Why? The same reason - the film was changed after writing the book. I know that some people say that the ADF doesn't like Ridley Scott's ideas or he write some or that he writes a kind of fan fiction, or that he had to constantly consult with Ridley Scott so as not to miss any of the director’s ever-changing ideas. No, just film was changed after the novel was writing.

I have decided to take OPTION 3 as this was a Idea i had a Number of Years Back... so i will discus it here over the Next Week.

The Basic Synopsis is:  In 2379 a United Systems Military (USM) Research Station Orbiting one of Saturn's Moons receives a Consignment from the USM Auriga which contains Specimens for Military Research for a Projected called Zarathustra.  The Consignment comprises of Vials of Ripley 8 Blood and the Failed Ripley 7 Queen.  The Outpost begins Various Experiments trying to Create a Super Human Solider, but they also try to Resurrect the Xenomorph from the Failed Ripley 7 Queen DNA.

Successfully Managing to Clone a Queen Hybrid, while also Creating Enhanced Human Hybrids from Ripley 8 DNA they are Playing God and pay the Price for this.

It would Feature a Queen Hybrid that does-not Produce Eggs... hence a Play on Words Title (Viviparitus) where the Queen instead gives Birth to Hybrid Worm/Face Huger Organisms that will Grow but are NOT as Large as a Face Huger and these Parasites will Enter a Host by any means and Orifice, they will even attach to a Host and Secrete Acid to Burn a Hole to Bury Itself in a Host and Gestate.

The Gestated Organism will then Exit the Host near where it has Gestated, and these Xenomorph Hybrids will have a Higher % of Human DNA.  I had mentioned this PLOT a few Years ago, like 2014/2015 the Beast would have looked a little like the Neomorph, well it was to be based on some Unused Prometheus Concepts and Unused Alien Resurrection Concepts.

It would Feature a Hybrid Queen and a way to Procreate another Hybrid Queen.  It would Feature TWO kinds of New Hybrid Xenomorphs.  It would also have Super-Humans created from Ripley 8 DNA.

The One Money Shot being when one of these Super Humans are Infected with the New Hybrid Xenomorph to Create a Ubermorph if you would.

The END would see the Station be Destroyed and Crash on Iapetus but Specimens of Hybrid DNA would INFECT some Basic Organism that are Growing in the THAWING ICE of Iapetus

This would leave it OPEN for a NEW Evolution of Organisms on that Moon.

The PLOT takes Place about the same time as Alien Resurrection

Regarding my Poster... its kind of a Play On Words ;)

Considering that the Engineers come from what we would call Paradise, we have to Wonder what Dr Shaw would be expecting as she is guided by her FAITH!

Looking at some of the Reasons that RS had hinted the Engineers wanted to Destroy us for, then we could safely Assume that had we all Behaved in a Way and Adopted a Simple Way of Life like those Planet 4 Engineers had then maybe they would have had NO reason to Destroy us?

If we look at Alien Covenant and The Crossing, we can only assume that Dr Shaw was NOT made aware of what Happened, its likely David had LIED to her, so when she Awakens the World that Awaits her is NOT in any kind of State to what she had HOPPED to have Discovered.

You have to look at it from HER Perspective....

If David just informed her that he Discovered the Engineers were WICKED and they was about to ATTACK and so he had NO Choice but to take a Safety Precaution and Bombard them.  Well she would have been ANGRY and likely would have wanted David to awaken her before they Arrived so that SHE could make that Decision.   For her she does-not FEAR DEATH she would Gladly DIE if it meant she gets some Answers...

For David we have to remember he sees himself as a Sentient Life-Form, and its Unlikely he would want to be Destroyed... also if he had CARE for Dr Shaw he would NOT be willing to take any Chances of any HARM coming to HER even if he wanted her SAFE for his OWN Selfish Love...

So from his Perspective he would LIKELY had Pulled the Plug on the Engineers as a Guaranteed Safe-Gard for himself and Dr Shaw.

I would assume that David would NOT however be Honest with Dr Shaw, i would Assume and it seems the Excuse he gave would be that he FELT the Ship was Under a Attack, the Engineers Sent out something to DOCK as they was Suspicious and he tried to Escape but during this it cause the Ship to Crash/Fall out the Sky and UNLEASH its Bio-Weapon.

We can Assume that Dr Shaw awakens to Discover they have Crashed, and she would have some IDEA of the Deadly Nature of the Pathogen and that it WOULD-NOT be Safe to Venture outside.

David could Confirm this, and this for him is a Convenient way to KEEP her Locked Away on the Ship, while he is FREE to Venture out and Explore the Engineers City.  I would Assume that Dr Shaw was kept on the Ship for Months, as the Environment outside was NOT SAFE!

On Davids Adventures he maybe brought her back some Fruit/Food and Clean Water, at which point over Time you can Assume that Dr Shaw would be thinking how come David can get Food/Drink that is NOT infected with the Pathogen!

In TRUTH we see that he had discovered Flora and Fauna that appeared to NOT be infected and so we can SAFELY Assume that Planet 4 has Flora/Fauna all over its Surface and that the BOMBARDMENT only infected a Certain Radius.... 

And it was the Engineers Hubris for confining themselves to ONE City that was their Down Fall.  We see that David had Experimented on Female and Infant Engineers, i would ONLY assume they were ALIVE!

HOW did he manage to Experiment on these beings and NOT get his Head Torn Off?  The Answer is Simple... the Engineers were NOT prepared for the Bombardment, just like MOST Humans are on Earth... IF there was a Outbreak or Something and EVERYONE had to Barricade themselves away (think the Movie 10 Cloverfield Lane) then HOW LONG would your FOOD/DRINK supplies Last?  Have you Prepared a Years Supply? or More?

So i would say its LIKELY that Some Engineers managed to Barricade themselves away and KNEW they could NOT venture outside and they SIMPLY Ran out of Food/Drink and became Emaciated and thus they would be RIPE for the Pickings for David....

Maybe  a Few Engineers attempted to Explore but became infected with Neomorph?  And so the Survivors had NO CHOICE but to Wait Out the Infection or Wait for HELP!

The Engineers likely would react like Humans, in that the MALES would be prepared to insure the Rations of Food/Drink go to the Women and Children, which would make the MALES more Emaciated First.

Back to Dr Shaw.... she could get suspicious and Wonder Outside one time and Discover she could Survive Outside (like Michelle did in 10 Cloverfield Lane), maybe she only goes out for a little while, and returns so that David does-not know.... this would give her a GOOD chance to put her Suspicion to the TEST.... she could ASK him... "David has the Infection Passed, is it Safe Outside yet" which he could REPLY that it is NOT.... she would know there and then that he is LYING and then Wonder WHY?

So then she could FOLLOW him and ONCE she makes her way to his Work-Shop she would Discover the Horrors, maybe she sees Alive Engineers who are Chained Up, Infants that are Experimented on!

Dr Shaw could Discover that some Engineers had Survived and she would be ANGRY as if they had attempted to SAVE some of them, maybe they could have GIVEN some Answers!

When she Finally Faces David she would DEMAND some Answers and he would likely still try and LIE to a Degree.  I would assume this is WHEN he declares to her that he is doing this for HER.... so he can Figure a Way so that he can Help her to Procreate and so they can START a NEW Eden.

At this POINT i would suspect that Dr Shaw has LOST any Trust for David and she would want NOTHING to do with his Plans and would TRY and Escape!

David would Catch Her, and TRY and Imprison her, and maybe he Proclaims his LOVE for her.... maybe she would PLAY along so that he may Release Her...... but then he takes the Signals Wrong and goes in for a KISS and she Rejects him.... and he DOES-NOT take Rejection WELL

And the REST is History!

These are EVENTS that i think could likely have Happened that Warrant a Novel, and are the Foundation for the Kind of Story that i would have Fleshed Out with the Project i had Put Off...

Well i would maybe expect some News on Alien Day about any in the Work Novels that Relate to the Franchise and so maybe they may reveal that ADF is working on a Project if so then that could be a indication that LOST IN PARADISE could be about David on Planet 4... only Time will Tell ;)

Regarding those FEW Concepts by HALLET we can only Speculate on what this Canned Project was, looking at it then it Sadly Appears to NOT be connected to ALIEN but some Chinese Production Sci-Fi.... seemed interesting though.

Seems that some may have wondered if it was Alien Awakening, well what ever the Covenant Sequel would have been and you would have to assume David would have liked to CONTINUE with his Genetic Experiments ;)

Have to Remember that David is in GOD MODE now, and he Likely would have wanted to Prove he could Surpass the Creations that Mankind and the Engineers had achieved. 

I think there is some Good Points Raised here and i agree that the ULTIMATE Canon is the Movies, but that does-not mean that other things cant be Canon.

The Biggest Problem with any Canon/Material is they are always subject to CHANGE... which is WHY i never Purchased the W-Y Report as i considered it INCOMPLETE due to us NOT-YET having a Origins Conclusion and so it was just a case of things in the REPORT could be Subject to Change.  But i applaud the Work and Effort that went into it, and a Majority of the Information would have been deemed Accurate at the Time or Close to the Time of Print.  Should we ever Conclude the Prequels/Origins then i guess a Revision of the Report is Warranted and would make a MUST HAVE Purchase.

Regarding other stuff on here i think a lot comes down to Personal Interpretation and Opinion again.

1) Space Jockey, we have to remember it began as a Skeleton (Starbeast) it evolved to some Skeletal looking being HR Giger Necronom V which then HR Giger had to design a Concept Based of that which looked to NOT be a Skeleton, but due to the Color Scheme on the Prop and the Head it appeared to be Skeletal.

But we have to take what Dallas had said as his ASSUMPTION and that the Space Jockey is a Space Suit and i cant see that Changing.

2) Mural in Prometheus to me simply indicates that the Engineers had came into Contact with or Engineered different kinds of Face Huger but this does-not prove that the ALIEN 1979 Face Huger had existed Thousands of Years ago.

Essentially the Mural was a Easter Egg of Sorts a NOD to HR Giger, but those working on it had indicated it was showing the Deacon (this does-not mean the Dr Shaw Sourced Version).

3) The Rerouting of the Nostromo seems to be that the Powers to Be who had Autherised Special Order 937 where looking for a Expendable Ship/Crew that they could use to Obtain a Specimen, and the Nostromo must have been a Convenient Ship that fitted those Parameters that would have been on a Route that would NOT be Vastly off the Path to LV-426.  They had it routed to Thedus to Place a Agent (Ash) on board to make sure the Objective is Reached (Special Order 937).

We cant be sure when the Company was aware of the LV-426 Signal but it seemed they had only Recently Decided to take Action on it Not Long Prior (weeks, months) before they Placed Ash on the Nostromo.  Looking at Alien Covenant i think the Sequels would have given us Information that would have lead to Special Order 937

This message below was also in Phobos and another reason why I believe that the signal might be from the surface of Planet 4, potentially the secret destination all along.

Welcome dk. 

A series of some sort tends to be the trend...it is certainly my wishes for an Alien-type series to stream on something. 

LOST ON PARADISE confirmed as an Alien novel would be so wonderful....and yes, then put it to film in some way as soon as possible.

...circling back....

"The Engineers World was to be considered what we would call PARADISE... and i had mentioned a Few Times that maybe we should look at Paradise in Context of it being a Contained City that is the Cradle of Civilization and a Place only those deemed Worthy/Righteous and Pure are Permitted to Reside."

Ridley Scott mixing up of the roles in Paradise Lost is what I wanted to cite as well BigDave...good stuff.  

Instead of divine Angels attacking the Fallen (Paradise Lost), have the progeny of the Fallen Angels (Engineer's Biblical Inheritance, David's notes above) attack David and maybe the humans that created him.  

David attacking Planet 4 is something similar to a judgement on lukewarm Engineers who expected nothing but comfort.  And they were wiped out by their own weapons.