Comments (Page 215)

X. Next on my list!

Very interesting article, with rare photos from the set of alien 1979.

https://nofilmschool.com/Alien-BTS-book-Rinzler

I think a thing to remember with Constellations they are just a way to Separate up areas of Space as viewed from Earth, and so you could have TWO Stars that appear side by side in a Constellation that could be Vastly Seperated by Distance were as other Stars that are not located close to them as viewed from Earth could be much closer to them.

Regarding Galaxies we have to remember they are located in the Further Reaches of Space.. Millions of Light Years away but if we get one we could make out with the Naked Eye or with a Telescope then the Area of the Sky that we would see them from Earth would be located in a Area of the SKY that belongs to a Constellation.

Meaning the Galaxy is viewed through/pass that Constellation but NOT that the Galaxy is actually located within that Constellation

"So, did the Prometheus crew travel to the right place?"

Well its likely the Map shows Stars and it depends at what position are these viewed... from Earth?

With ALIEN it was indicated that LV-426 was in the Zeta Reticuli Binary Star System and Ridley Scott has on a number of times mentioned this, and Prometheus we are in the same Star System.

Here i have TWO Maps of the Zeta Reticuli System the System is the TWO Brightest Objects its a case of which of the STARS in the Prometheus Map would match up with those Stars and then what are the other Stars in the Prometheus Map.

So that collection of 6 STARS could be quite FAR apart we can maybe ASSUME that Zeta 1 and Zeta 2 have to be on that Prometheus Star Map.  So its a Question of WHICH of those 6 STARS had the Engineers been pointing out?

The Isle of Skye Cave Map seems to show the Tall Being pointing to a Specific Point.  But then it could be that when the Prometheus arrived at the System Area they Targeted the System that had the Most Suitable Candidate for the Potential to have Life or had Life... hence LV-223

But it could have been Planet 4 that was being pointed out but this place remained Hidden (as indicated).

sometimes you just have to Accept what the Production, Drafts and Director had indicated, which was that these MAPS pointed out the Zeta 2 Reticuli System.

Here is another Example... its a case of HOW does the Cave Map Fit?

Leto

So, did the Prometheus crew travel to the right place?

22 stars. So...

Leto

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reticulum

It not placed inside Reticulum constellations.

Leto

Apparently, the galaxy Reticulum 2 was discovered in 2015 by the Dark Energy Survey. The engineer pointed towards the Reticulum System.

Oh... lol... Galaxies cannot be located in constellations.

BigDave

The Betty Hill abduction is, of course, tickling for the imagination.

But, the star map points towards a constellation. In the Reticulum constellation, there is a dwarf galaxy called Reticulum 2 . . .

Think i will give this a Bump!

I have taken the Concept work for Fire and Stone of the Deacon's we NEVER got to see and Scaled in a Xenomorph.

The Fire and Stone Concept Team seemed to be going for about a 10-11Ft Fully Grown Engineer Deacon.

Bare in Mind this is Comic Format... i think we can assume IF we saw a Real Action Adult Deacon in a Future Movie it would look more Fearsome than the Concepts show.

We know NOTHING really about the Deacon, it surely would share some Traits of the Neomorph and Xenomorph.

While we can ASSUME a Xenomorph would beat a Neomorph (which is the case in a Earlier Draft)  I would Speculate that the Engineer Deacon would be more of a Match for a Human Xenomorph.

Double Post!

So may as well Edit to replace with this...

I think the AI aspect is something interesting to look at, and i feel Ridley Scott felt the same, and it could appear that we could explore AI beyond the Limits of Synthetic Technology.   As Ridley Scott sees the Replicants as AI and i think he intends to show us the Prometheus Engineers are AI.

Something  i find VERY interesting is the History after ALIENS....  by that i mean the AUTONS  a AI that are Created by Synthetics.. this could be something to Explore as far as the REASON, HISTORY and Downfall of this Action.

"I feel sorry that Walter could not ultimately deal with David; Walter deserved to live"

I Speculate that we would see Walter again, i base this on the Comments by Ridley Scott regarding the Sequel, as he claimed there would be 3-4 Incoming Parties that would be arriving (to where David will be heading Next).   And he said that ONE of those Parties will be the Engineers who will return to Planet 4 and Discover the DESTRUCTION left behind and would be AFTER the Culprit.

Now we have to Consider a Few Things..

*The Engineers Ships must be Vastly Quicker than the Covenant and so they would Intercept the Ship quick, but it seems David will arrive at his Destination First.  So its HIGHLY likely the Engineers arrive at Planet a LONG time after David has left.

*How would they Track David? Do they have some Technology that Can Trace the Ship leaving Planet 4?  I Doubt it.

*They would discover the Crashed Juggernaught and even if they Activate the Hologram Recordings all the SHIP can reveal is that the Ship came from LV-223 and that a Human was on board.

*What could they make out from the Wreckage of the Lander? i doubt anything, or Equipment, would the Remains of the Humans who Died on Planet 4 still be in any condition to allow the Engineers to identify the Species and where they are from?

They could also come across WALTER... if he is just a Corpse they would still make out his likeness to Humans.

But all of these would only DRAW the Engineers to LV-223 or Earth.

It is HIGHLY LIKELY that David would go to Origae-6 and its UNLIKELY the Engineers would know about this... UNLESS!!!!!

They discover a Walter who can Inform them or Point them in the Right Direction.

The only way this COULD-NOT happen would be if David had Uploaded himself to the Walter Model, and all that remains is ONLY the Empty Shell of David.

Also it is likely that TWO of the other Parties will be Human Ships and so maybe ONE of those can have a WALTER.

So our Walter is NOT gone... well NOT if we got a Sequel to Alien Covenant that is like what Ridley Scott had intended.

I like all the androids. They each have their own personalities and the coolest thing is how the synthetic technology progress in the Alienverse.  We have the Early synthetics represented by David, how he was unstable and more human than the other synthetics. Walter was a more "improved" version of David with his "humanity" removed from him. Ash was kind of like david just lacking the humanity part, so they again "improved" them with the more human loyal Bishop. Call has perfectly passed for human.

I love the good androids, Bishop and Walter, the best, but I will give David an honorable mention as he is incredibly interesting. 

Bishop I've loved ever since I was kid. He was so kind, patient, gentle, brilliant, and dutiful. Like Ripley, he was afraid, but he got the job done. He's proof that an individual can be quiet and kind and still an absolute badass force to be reckoned with. Literally half of him was more helpful to Ripley and Newt than pretty much the entire human crew. Much love to my man - uh, android - Bishop. 

I also love Walter. He had a straightforward innocence and the Bishop-like quiet, intelligent kindness. I loved how he protected Daniels without question, so many times, losing his hand and throwing David away from her and yelling at her to run. I loved how he offered to help her with her ship duties right after her husband died and told her from the beginning that he would never let her down. He was kinder than the humans. You could argue it was his programming, but he was GOOD.

I enjoyed the contrast between David and Walter when David insisted that Walter loved Daniels, but Walter replied, "It is my duty." Love and duty often occur concurrently. Soldiers can demonstrate the coexistence of love and duty, showing their love for their country through their dutiful actions and commitment to service. So perhaps both David and Walter were right. Walter was made to be like the Terminator in Judgment Day; someone who would know why you cried, but would never be capable of doing so himself. (But then again, Aliens androids are delightfully more gray area at times, so you never know...)

Daniels was not wrong to ask Walter to help her build the cabin by the lake. He was smarter and kinder than all those people put together and I would've done the same thing.

I feel sorry that Walter could not ultimately deal with David; Walter deserved to live. It was perhaps his programming making him more obedient that was part of his downfall and he had less experience dealing with situations creatively as David had. David showed him he could compose a tune with the flute, but Walter was not sneaky enough to keep ahead of David. Although it made him imperfect, David was saved by his baser human instincts. 

Finally, David is terribly interesting to follow, especially in Prometheus because you weren't quite sure of his autonomy/programming/free will until later on and then, oh man! David experimented on the humans and conceivably got consent, although it was not informed. He surely would have known from a procedural standpoint that it wasn't ethical, but he has his own agenda. He did many things that were arguably more human than android which gave you a hint as to what was behind that robotic facade. I enjoyed seeing his character growth even though he was ultimately evil. Awesome villain!

The androids are my favorite characters in Aliens. Observing the interplay between their robot and human characteristics and the good and evil they express through some combination of personality and programming is utterly fascinating! 

Abe is a real downer with that saw.

Great short film dk.  Thank you for sharing.

I loved Luv ignorantGuy...especially the micro-pout she displayed at corporate when K made it clear he wasn't there to talk.  

She did seem to be an effective scalpel in carving out obstacles in front of business interests.  Nice pants too.  I even liked her bangs.

" whether he might have turned out very differently had his creator been a little kinder"

Certainly that was kind of what i was trying to point out ;)

When he says to Daniels "if we are kind" then indeed he could be lying to HER.  Whatever plans he may have had are kind of in Trouble by Virtue that Daniels managed t Figure out it was NOT  her Walter by the time she was in Cryo-Sleep.

The indication from Prometheus was that indeed maybe David would NOT be so much a Problem if he in General Felt he was Treated better... but overtime he would see that he was Superior and Certainly would NOT want to Serve or be placed below Mankind on the Hierarchy Ladder.

The Main Thing that Ridley Scott seemed to be basing the Sequel on was "What Kind" of a World that David would Create/Build.   That would be about AI and NOT about the Xenomorph.

Could David be a KIND Father/God?

But in many Mythos and Religion we see that GOD may come across as KIND and Loving as long as they are Worshiped, Pleased....   Disobey the GODS and well they Certainly don't stay Benevolent to their Creations.

For sure the Nativity Painting is a Good Example of how something can be made Many Years after a Event.

A thing to Consider However is the MAPS that are dated after 0AD are the Mayan 620 AD and Hawaiian 680 AD

These Civilizations had NO-CONTACT with others at this Time-Period (the Plot was neither did the others but indicated the Engineers just visited each).  So that means we could wonder did Engineers still come back at around the Time of 600-700 AD?

If so then surely these beings would be aware of LV-223 and the Outbreak?  So maybe those Last TWO Maps are a Warning?  But some could also say they could be a SET-Trap knowing the Place had a Outbreak!

If it is like the Nativity work by Piero della Francesca then the Information may have been passed on in some kind of Visual Form (Paper or Tablet) that someone latter discovered and worked from to make those Maps in 620AD and 680AD but i think we need to assume that people from Maya Area of Mexico and Hawaii had NO Contact with each other at those Times.

Something that appears to be INTERESTING...

The other Maps dated prior to 2000 years ago all show Beings pointing to the Stars from Visitations on Foot.

The Mayan 620CE and Hawaiian 680CE ones are different in that depict a SHIP!

The Mayan One showing what could be the View of the Star Map shown from a Juggernaught Orrery Room.

The Hawaiian one seems to show a Disc Like Ship (but this could be the SUN)

And so maybe we cant Rule-Out more Visits or that the Engineers had taken some Humans from Earth earlier and then taken them Back after the Outbreak to maybe try and Pass on their Ways or Warnings?

Regarding the MAP it appears its a collection of STARS and the positions of Stars can change over Thousands of Years and so these may NOT be accurate.

It seems (as discussed on here quite a lot in the past) the Maps could be based off the Betty Hill Abduction Map

You're right, hox, and maybe we don't need any emissaries, BigDave? The star maps could depict much older events (like religious tradition). That's why we haven't encountered the engineers for about 2000 years. :)

By the way, the star maps show us a constellation of 6 stars (Reticulum?). Perhaps it was the wrong starsystem the Prometheus crew travelled to?

@BigDave, you can't believe a word David says! By any definition he is an all out psychopath who will say and do anything to achieve his ends. I do wonder, though, whether he might have turned out very differently had his creator been a little kinder... We see at the beginning of Covenant, shortly after his inception, where Weyland deliberately instructs him to pour the tea: you are nothing more than a slave. And in Prometheus, Weyland humiliates him in front of the entire crew by pointing out that David will never have a soul. With a lifetime of hearing Try Harder, is it any wonder he came to regard his makers as pitiful?

Actually, on the matter of a soul, I think Weyland is dead wrong about that. It's clear that David is a fully fledged sentient AI capable of independent thought and creativity. From my perspective, the hardware doesn't really matter, soft grey matter or silicon, a soul is a soul. And when Shaw asks him the question "What will you do when Weyland isn't around to program you any more?" I think she's barking up the wrong tree. It's clear that David is in actuality self-programming himself all the time. A little like we all are.

@chli, good spot about the provenance of those other star maps. I'm going to be generous to the production team and say that finding a piece of art created in 680 CE does not necessarily mean that the events depicted therein happened anywhere near that time. 'The Nativity' by Piero della Francesca was created almost 1500 years after the birth of Christ, for example.

NB, an account of the Dogon people was probably instrumental in the development of this particular plot line.

Alien Covenant Trailer Song

There was a boy, A very strange enchanted boy

(David does appear like a Boy at times in Prometheus and he certainly is a bit Strange and Enchanted).

They say he wandered very far, very far,
Over land and sea

(we know David has been on this Journey to Planet 4)

A little shy and sad of eye, But very wise was he

(He did at times come across a bit Shy, maybe he was a bit Sad at his mistreatment and indeed he would have amassed many years of Knowledge).

And then one day, A lucky day he passed my way

Then we spoke of many things, Fools and kings

(certainly think about how he could have talked about how Foolish Weyland was, and indeed the Ozymandias Poem could come to mind when talking about Fallen Foolish Kings)

Then he said to me:
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is to love and be loved in return"

(this certainly fits with David, he had felt that he was unloved by many including his own Creator, and he had saw Kindness from Elizabeth Shaw, and he felt Love for her.... but ALAS she never felt the same Love back for him).

So to a degree the Nature Boy Song does kind of Fit with David, maybe it was NOT a Coincidence this Track was chosen for the Trailer?

Then he said to me:
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is to love and be loved in return"

Could this play a Part in his Agenda going forwards as far as "what kind of a World" he would Create... which he said to Daniels in reply to her asking what kind of a World can they create "if we are kind it will be a kind world"

Well this is SCI-FI and so maybe we could look at if there is a Connection between Various Humanoids, the Engineers Plot also reveals about Experiments that also use more than Humanoid DNA...  Hybrids..

We maybe have to ask WHY the Engineers seem to want to Create Life in their Image....  we could then Ponder for instance HOW MANY Life-Forms are Human-like.

But then also we should not limit the Universe to Human-like Life and so other Humanoids could be Very Different, and so indeed Arcturians are interesting, how Human are they?  If they are Hybrids or Different then they likely would have LESS of a DNA Match.

If the Engineers have Engineered many Intelligent Species then maybe there DNA is the Base Canvas.  But we cant rule out if they had Experimented in the Past to Cross-Hybrid other None-Human Organisms with a Human-like Canvas.

Are the Arcturians as such?  Or could they be something the Engineers or their Creators have NEVER been involved with?

There is Indeed nothing like Perfection... we could get something we consider Perfect but that could be down to each persons Taste, there is nothing that is Perfect for everyone.

Because you can always find ways to make something deemed Perfect, even more Perfect so you NEVER really can achieve such.

The Thing that Perfection offers is the Drive and Ambition to Pursue Perfection, its what drives us on to Improve things we have already Achieved.  You will NEVER achieve Perfection but the Pursuit of it will allow for Improvements over what we currently have.

So we would Strive for Perfection even though we know we can NEVER Truly obtain it.

" Then, humanity could follow the yellow brick road to the land of Oz."

This seemed to be the case with Space 2001, but it appears to not had been the case with Prometheus.

"Another thing is that I’m beginning to wonder if there aren’t at least two substances: one for seeding (creating) and one for weeding (destroying)"

I think it depends on how we look at the GOO... in that Really Long Post i had explained my Interpretation of the Substance as a Seeding Tool we are led to see the Black Goo would in effect Destroy Life but from it is New Life so for Example Fifield is NOT the same as he was as a Human..  In some of the  Concept Works and Spaights Draft we see that he had became a Hybrid with Xenomorph related DNA.

Back to my Long Winded Explanation... if the GOO is a TOOL that Breaks Down a Organisms DNA/Traits and this becomes Passed on by the Pathogen...  then we have to ask WHAT happens if a Sacrificed Engineer event happens on Earth and his Broken Down Molecules infect the Water, we can assume this would then INFECT Organic Life and Mutate it to have more Engineer DNA... and so maybe this Process would RESET the Affected Area, a Infected Person would EVOLVE to something NEW and maybe would loose who they used to be.

Fifield was maybe became a more Hostile Organism because the DNA of the Deacon/Xenomorph related Organism is more Aggressive and Hostile.

The way i saw the GOO is the same as Spaights Scarabs, which we have to remember was the Basis for the GOO.

Alien Engineers we see...

*Engineer opens Sacrificial Cup/Box and Sacrificial Scarabs Consume ENGINEER, they then Store Engineer DNA.

*One of these Scarabs then flies off and Bites a Female Primate and INJECTS the Engineers DNA and she Mutates into a Hybrid which is indicated how our Origins Began we thus Started as a Engineer/Primate Hybrid.

*The Next Time we see the Scarabs are in Urn/Vases that Fifield knocks over and then some Scarabs get into his Space Suit and ONE then BITES him.... this Scarab (Does-Not Consume him) but INJECTS a Cargo of DNA into him.... Fifield then Mutates into a XENOMORPH like Hybrid.

We could Conclude from this that those Scarabs maybe Consumed that DNA from some Xenomorph Related Organism.

Apply this to Prometheus but replace Scarabs with GOO and consider Sacrificial Pose Mural and Altar with Sacrificial Bowl (Originally in Trailers) and maybe it becomes quite SIMPLE.

Scarabs/Goo are a Creation/Hybrid Tool that can be used to OBTAIN the DNA/Traits of a Organism and then allow this to be Passed on to other Life to Create a Hybrid.

Alien Covenant muddied the Waters a Little though, we now seem to maybe have a Pathogen that can be Programed to Obtain/Pass on DNA or/and to Target DNA and replace Molecules with Petrified/Crystallized Molecules..

"Furthermore, we see that the DNA-string of the sacrificial engineer breaks apart (suggesting just the building blocks of life is passed on), yet, our DNA matches that of the engineers which seems like a contradiction."

Certainly it is likely this scene was the Catalyst to Evolve Basic Life into Complex Life and Kick Start Evolution.  Ridley Scott had indicated the Engineers come back over and over to Further Evolve/Engineer their Creations. So its a Long Process.

We can see similar with David, his workshop seems to show that he has taken the Neomorph and using the GOO he has Experimented on Various Organisms to OBTAIN certain DNA/Traits to then Mix/Match with each other and the Neomorph to Create the Xenomorph.

The Engineers likely did the same with Worlds they Seed, Creating various Organisms via Various Experiments in addition to Evolution.

"The Engineers just left their calling card to humans living in primitive societies, that's all. Here's where we came from, since you ask."

I think a few interesting things to consider with this, the Engineer that David spoke to said that THEY did-not come from LV-223 but a place we would call Paradise.

And how accurate was the Star-Map? Was it so precise to point to LV-223? Or just the Star System and LV-223 just happened to be the only World that appeared more Habitable?  The Latter appears to be the case... however with Alien Covenant via the Advent it appears that Planet 4 was located around the Zeta Systems too so we cant 100% rule out that the Star-Map pointed to Planet 4 but this World was Hidden/Cloaked some how (as Alien Covenant appeared to indicate).

Dr Shaw indicated that they was WRONG... in that this was in No-Way a Invitation to come and find the Engineers.  It is likely the Engineers never intend Mankind to Advance to a Level that we could leave Earth and so the only way we are intended to LEAVE is if the Engineers decide to come and TAKE some of us from Earth.

The other way to look at it was a Warning... like "dont go to this place" but with the Engineers Teachings surely they would have been passed on at some point so we would know it was a Warning...  Why Pass a Warning on for like over 30'000 Years?

Another way to look at it was a TRAP but again this is Flawed, as while Fooling us to seek this place to then Discover Death is what potentially could happen, the Place also would allow Mankind to gain Engineer Technology should we have a way to protect from their Bio-Weapon Experiments.

But i think we have to go back to Basics, the Chariots of the Gods Plot, in which many Ancient Cultures told Tales of Gods who came from the STARS.... so its likely the Star-Map is a indication of that.

As the Engineer said they dont come from LV-223, then i think it leaves TWO options.

1) The Engineers were pointing to were THEY came from but this World is Hidden (Planet 4) and so the Prometheus just went to the Closest Location to the Star-Map System that seemed to be somewhat Habitable which by Coincidence just happens to be a Facility that contains Death and Connected with the Engineers and their Agenda at some point to Destroy us.

2) It was to show WHERE we came from, and so this Place was where the Engineers would Experiment with their Creations as some Green-House/Sandbox but at some point those Engineers had became interested in the Experiments with a Life-Form/DNA that they felt was more Interesting and Superior to Humanoid Life/DNA and intended to UPGRADE us.

"One very interesting thing is that the engineers visited us about 600 years after the outbreak on LV-223"

This Certainly is a Puzzle... did they come back even after LV-223 Outbreak.  Or.... could we be looking at one of these TWO.

Ridley Scott teased they sent down a Emissary First (Christ) but we still never changed our ways and we Crucified this Emissary and that was the Last Straw.

1) We cant take things too Literal to just ONE kind of Religion or Mythos as the Star Maps Spanned various Cultures.  So could there had been Multiple Emissaries sent to Various Cultures around the World and only some of those had KILLED their Emissaries to the Engineers, while some Cultures that lived less Corrupt/Advanced Lives still had their Emissaries or some Emissaries Migrated to those other Cultures after 2000 years ago?

2) Could the Emissaries have had Disciples who carried on going around the World and passing on the Teachings and the Star-Map to other Cultures?

I think either makes Logical Sense... but thats NOT to say what is going on.

Furthermore, we see that the DNA-string of the sacrificial engineer breaks apart (suggesting just the building blocks of life is passed on), yet, our DNA matches that of the engineers which seems like a contradiction.

I think I prefer to see the sacrificial scene as the beginning of life on Earth (although they probably have seeded other worlds). What we see in the prologue is how the engineers engineered us (through the building blocks of life, evolution, and perhaps technical help as they visited our civilisations). They became upset when we evolved in the wrong direction (the execution of Christ?), wanted to wipe us out but the biological weapon hit themselves (but for another 600 years they still visited us!).

BigDave

“this is where we created you”

“The gardeners of space” were kind enough to give these ancient civilisations, ranging from Stone Age (about 35.000 years BCE) to the Mayan (and Hawaiian) civilisations (in the 7th century CE), a star map indicating a place which they had no possibility of knowing where it was?

In 2001: A Space Odyssey, the extraterrestrial beings were also gardeners of space, controlling evolution, and were patiently waiting for us to evolve into the space age. Then, humanity could follow the yellow brick road to the land of Oz.

One thing we haven’t touched upon (I think) is that the engineers continued to be worshipped and visited us about 600 years after the outbreak on LV-223! Who were they? Engineers from Planet 4?

Another thing is that I’m beginning to wonder if there aren’t at least two substances: one for seeding (creating) and one for weeding (destroying)?

hox

There were other civilisations with the same star map: Egyptian, Mayan, Sumerian, Babylonian, Hittite and Hawaiian. These range from about 2470 BCE to 680 CE.

One very interesting thing is that the engineers visited us about 600 years after the outbreak on LV-223 . . .

I love the Reptilian Hybrid image BigDave.  It reminds me of "V".

Great topic.

Excellent Moebius Arcturians reference Lone.  Thank you.

I agree with Leto and others that Doctors Shaw and Holloway blew it on the mural interpretation.  There is most likely a disclaimer, now faded away, written in an ancient script near the system that read "Don't go here."

Or...

"The fresco depicts a location in space some 35,000 years ago, long before the Engineers turned on humanity (which we know was about 2,000 years ago).

The Engineers just left their calling card to humans living in primitive societies, that's all. Here's where we came from, since you ask."

Good point hox.  

The mural was very old, the visiting Engineers could have certainly cited where they came from when asked, and later turned on humanity and they were wiped out in an incident when preparing to act on Earth.  This scenario ties quite well to what was seen on LV-223.

Great topic.  Thank you chli.

That's a good angle dk and it is kind of related to BigDave citing LV-223 as a "Sand-Box".  

LV-223 could have started off as something else entirely (like an experimental technology testing ground and storage) to later become an apparent military installation.

Very good catch on the AURORA song BigDave.  Love it.

Engineer DNA Match

"may be many Various Kinds of Humanoids."

"And indeed we could ponder about the Arcturians are they created by the Engineers?"

It would very interesting to me if the humanoids encountered, such as the Arcturians, were a match to human DNA as well.  

When taking Prometheus (Engineer sample DNA match to human DNA) into account, I assume the Arcturians would be a DNA match to human's DNA because they are so close to Earth...in the Engineer's neighborhood.

Leto brings up a good point about past civilizations discovering the rock paintings. By the time we had the ability to reach LV-223, it could have changed into a military/research base.

I am sure it was NOT a Invitation...

But certainly who knows how many Civilizations had been to LV-223, ATLANTIS is a Great Example.

Ridley Scott had mentioned the Engineers have Reset Worlds before and suggested they had done this on Earth before... mentioning Atlantis.

So he was indicating that the Downfall of the Atlanteans was at the Hands of the Engineers.

If we look at my Interpretation of the Engineers Agenda and the Juggernauts, then Bombarding the Engineers DNA on a World would RESET it.

Life would be Reset but with Engineer DNA and then it would not take too long before the World is back to what it was.

Using Xeno/Deacon based DNA just makes NO sense!

It could be likely some Engineers at some point encountered something related to the Deacon/Xenomorph and they had become Perverted with the Concept that this Organism is more Perfect...

Maybe attempting to use its DNA to Evolve themselves?

What if the LV-223 Engineers are Sub-Created Slaves and Clones and so like Replicants to the Planet 4 Engineers. (Hence they have NO Nipples)

A Sub-species that are Engineered, or Engineered themselves to the point they CANT procreate..

Encountering a Organism that then would allow these beings to GIVE BIRTH to something could be seen as Interesting to these beings who then decide the Result has the Potential, and so they begin to Experiment on this Species....  hence the Experiments that latter occurred on LV-223?

This is how i have always been drawn to the connection...

Maybe the Organism was sent as a Punishment or it came about when some Engineers had attempted to Engineer themselves with the DNA of something Else.

I assume at some-point either of these led to the First Encounter with what would Predate the Deacon/Xenomorph DNA and potentially could be the Fresco Creature.

The Perverted, Corrupt and Fallen Engineers then seeing the DNA of the Deacon as being more Ideal to EVOLVE Worlds than their own DNA that came from their Creators the Planet 4 Engineers.

The LV-223/Prometheus Engineers thus being similar to Lucifer and David in Agenda.

"One (of many) problems with David being the creator of the xenomorph is that the pathogen is already created by the engineers aeons ago"

Absolutely all he has merely done is Experimented with the Bio-Weapon to Create his own Variant.

Prior to Alien Covenant its likely and indicated the Engineers Created the Xenomorph maybe by similar Processes to what David had done in Alien Covenant.

I understand the reason behind the U-Turn.. but i feel the reason for this would have been Perfectly Suited to showing David take the Engineers Work and Create a Different Variant that is SUPERIOR to the Deacon and Xenomorph.

But ALAS!

@LONE

Fantastic Reply... right on the Money as far as HOW Fans can look at the Franchise.. a Excellent Post.

If this the invitation...

Maybe some early Earth civilization already flew to LV-223? Atlantis, for example.

"According to me, the lyrics of “A Different Kind of Human” is about humanity and that we have become corrupt. But, there are some individuals that are pure and given the chance of getting away from Earth (by a higher power) and start all over."

;)

Indeed thats how i connect it, i feel the Engineers would Logically come back to TAKE some Humans away before they RESET the World!

Children would be the IDEAL choice... Innocent and Pure.

This is similar to what has been done in Movies before... such as Knowing 2009 (Spoiler for End)

It was one way i was thinking of making a Story about them, but i never got further than a Broad Base of Plot ideas...

Prior to that i felt they was a Species of Hermaphrodites but latter i considered what do they gain from Humanoids coming to Visit them?  Do they just enjoy SEX?  Do they make Money/Trade from it?

So i pondered that other Idea... but there are conflicts with this as we have to ask HOW did they Procreate for Hundreds and Thousands of years prior?

Did the Engineers perform this Function in the Past or Humans the Engineers had taken to Arcturus?

So yeah there are Flaws in the Needing Human Seed to Procreate.... so maybe not the best idea.  Also makes the Plot a little more like Species too.

The Various Moebius influences are very Prominent.

So the Arcturians as Shape-shifters?  Who knows ;)

There is always some Ambiguity with the Prequels and a lot depends on HOW you try and look at the Prequels and for some the Center Point seems to be the Xenomorph/Black Goo Horrors, Bio-Weapons and Warlike beings wishing to use such on Mankind or to simply just Procreate such things...

Ridley Scott seems to indicate the Engineers as Gardeners of Space more than Warmongering Genocidal would be Gods.

I was going to reply to this Topic Earlier but was busy, however hox seems to be on the Right Track ;)

We need to look at some of the Basics that appeared to be indicated for what the Engineers Plot was... this would require taking into account what Production has said which includes RS and scenes that are CUT...   If we look at the Theatrical Cut then we can come to a different Conclusion.

*The PLOT behind the Engineers is the Ancient Aliens/Gods and Chariots of the Gods Theory... Which is that we was NOT Created by a Magical Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent Being (GOD) or the Product of a Big Bang and Evolution.  But that we are the Product of a Ancient Alien Species who had Played a Part in the Creation, Evolution and Interaction/Knowledge of our Species.  These would-be GODS are who we Interpret as our Gods from various Mythos/Religion.

*We should NOT assume the Sacrificial Scene was on Earth, it was merely to indicate this is the Process the Engineers Seed Worlds, but this is ONLY a part of the Process, they Continue to Experiment and Evolve their Experiments over Countless Thousands of Years.

*LV-223 was indicated as a Location going back at least 35'000 Years ago.  Yet the Engineers only intended to Set Off 2000 Years ago to use those Bio-Weapons on us.. WHY wait that long?

*LV-223 was a Hostile Environment for Life on Earth, we could not Survive more than TWO Minutes on that World, yet inside the Complex and Ships there is a Atmosphere that is Breathable for us..  YET! the Engineers appear to NOT need any Space Suits to Breath on the Surface and we can assume the Xenomorph does-not need the same Environment to Support Life that we do.

So WHY would they invest in this place being able to SUPPORT Life from Earth?

We need to look at the Engineers from the Creationist Stand Point from the Gardeners of Space Stand Point.

A lot of TIME and investment must go into either Discovering Suitable Worlds or Terra-forming them.

A lot of TIME and investment must go into the Seeding and Evolution of Life on said Worlds.

If you main Objective is to Create Life, Experiment with Life in the aim to Evolve and Perfect your Creations, then ideally you would want some kind of SAND-BOX

If you was a Gardener and you have Great Gardens with a all Manner of Plants, Flowers, Crops, Fruit and Vegetables.    When you decide to Experiment with these to Create Better Versions or Hybrids it would be WISE to do so in some kind of GREEN-HOUSE and then when you are Pleased with the Results and that they would NOT affect the Garden you have, then you would take your NEW and improved Experiments and Seed/Plant them in the Garden.

I believe that THIS was what LV-223 was.. a Green-House a SANDBOX. The Star Maps are thus saying "this is where we created you"

Lets look at the Sacrificial Scene....  Engineer Consumes the GOO, his Body is Broken Down and then these Broken Down Molecules then Form into something NEW that then either.

1) Reform into the Basic Building Blocks of Life (however the Scene shows the World has Planet Life and so likely has Basic Life already).

2) The Process is the Catalyst that allows for the Engineers DNA to pass on to Basic Life and EVOLVE it into Complex Life and thus Kick Start the Evolution to Complex Life.

If we look at Jon Spaights idea of Nano-Scrabs to Decode the GOO then we see those Scarabs Consume the Engineer and STORE his DNA we see ONE of these Scarabs then Bite a Primate and Pass on the Engineers DNA.. this indicating this Process is what began our Origins...

Sacrificed/Stored Engineer DNA ==> Primate ==> Early Mankind.

What if this Engineer was in some Container when he was Sacrificed and those Scarabs that Consumed him then was collected and Stored into Containers?  (Urns) we can assume that dropping a Container that Breaks Open would see those Scarabs unleashed and IF they then Bite a Primate then we would get the SAME Result!

Replace Scarabs for GOO and so the Prometheus Engineer was Sacrificed in a Container and the Broken Down Material is then Collected into URNS... then we can assume that Dropping the Contents of the URN into the Water Fall would be the SAME result!

The Seeding Scene is a VERY long time ago... to send down a Engineer drop him off on a Planet and have him Consume the Sacrificial Scarabs/Goo is the way they did things but what if they had more Control?  By that what if they made the Engineers Sacrifice themselves in another Place and COLLECTED the resulting Material into URNS.

You then have SHIPS that DROP these onto a World Instead and we get the same EFFECT... only more Efficient!

Does that make sense?

Are the Juggernauts/Urns just a more Advanced/Efficient way of Seeding the Engineers?

Lets look at this Comment by Ridley Scott.

"That could be a planet anywhere. All he’s doing is acting as a gardener in space. And the plant life, in fact, is the disintegration of himself. If you parallel that idea with other sacrificial elements in history – which are clearly illustrated with the Mayans and the Incas – he would live for one year as a prince, and at the end of that year, he would be taken and donated to the gods in hopes of improving what might happen next year, be it with crops or weather, etcetera."

The Prequels talk about Immortality... you are Immortalized by your Deeds, what you are remembered for, what you Created (Art, Music) and from your Seed (Family Generations). Some are Remembered by Monuments.

Lets look at some of the Dialog from Elders Scene that was not shown..   The Elder had said to the Sacrificial Engineer... "Let your body become the dirt. Your blood become the waters. And may your soul become their way back to us."

Take those TWO Quotes into Account  and then look at Planet 4 and look at those Monuments those Statues and that the Engineers seem to take Great Pride in their WAYS..  and its a Honor to be Chosen as a Sacrifice to Seed Worlds.

Then if we consider this to be the case, then being selected as a Sacrifice, where your Donation would end up having you LIVE-ON via passing on your Genetic Material and then having a Statue Erected of you in your Honor could be seen as TWO ways to gain some kind of Immortality.

If we look at Paradise its a place only the Worthy/Pure and Honorable are deemed to be allowed to LIVE..  It in other contexts is a Walled City that the Garden of Eden was located, where the Cradle of Life Began...

Thus what if those Engineers are the deemed Worthy Genetic Stock the Engineers select to SEED Worlds?

Take all this into account and then look at WHY the Engineers were welcoming the Juggernaught, and WHY they had NO Fear until the Bombardment.

Take this into account and ask IF these Ships were WARSHIPS then why did they lack any Defense Mechanisms?

Look at Davids Workshop for Experimenting and Creating Various Hybrids in the Pursuit of Perfection and ASK... what happens if some of these get loose on Planet 4 and this Planet was full of Life.. 

Any undesired Experiments could IMPACT the World and Life on it....  Would it NOT be better to Experiment on a Separate World... in Complexes that are Separated from Each Other?

This is WHAT i think LV-223 was..... a Sandbox!

Take that into account... if a Complex has Experiments that Need a Habitat like Earth to Survived should ANY escape the Complex they would DIE before they reach the other Complexes..

This makes Perfect Sense for why LV-223 was Hostile Outside and the Separation of Each Complex?

IF you have bared with me by NOW.. thanks... this has been my Interpretation of the Space Gardeners, Paradise and LV-223.