Comments (Page 326)

BigDave, something doesn't quite add up.

You say humanity stopped serving them - this is a very weak argument. See, humans hardly have anything to offer these "creators". For thousands of years, they have been missing and when humanity, unexpectedly developed technology and somewhat became a threat they decided to go and act. I have no doubt the engineer that we saw in the Prometheus finale was going to Earth with bad intentions.

But, taking into account what Michelle Johnston has been talking about, this engineer is the "fallen" fellow. So they split the responsibilities? Those hippies in a tear-drop ship seed and these fallen fellows got to take care of the creation of their breten?  Something doesn't quite add up, does it? The most likely thing that happened is that the engineer did not quite expect humanity to make so much progress. Recall the deleted scenes where the engineer was appreciating the chandelier, the music, books and all the rest of the artifacts in the escape pod of Vicky Weyland. He certainly did not expect humans to show up and wake him up. He did not expect Wayland go on and say that he created David from scratch, without any help from these useless engineers...I am forced to conclude that all these engineers, all the sorts of them, are gormless, dull and quite arrogant freaks, who think they own the universe. It is a shame then a certain David showed them that it was by pure chance that created these useless engineers and it was due to same chance that he, David, took their lives, thus showing that all their claim to fame is based on chance. Creators my a$$. David said it best - Even monkeys stood up at some point.

I came to like this David guy. He rightly discarded any value in these "creators". He was the first to realize how dull it might be that these so called creators might happen to create just because they could. David is misunderstood!

While OFF TOPIC i am happy to discuss some of the Mysteries of the Franchise and a lot of the Problems are it appears THEY had NO set A-Z Rules/Background they stuck to and so they constantly change things, as they go along without much thought to the ORIGINAL concepts which has created a few problems.

"So, the mutagen that the seeding engineer drinks must be somewhat different to the one that David and prometheus team found in the chamber with the head"

This is a Prime Example.... and its given some NEW explanation in the ADVENT that is a bit contradicting and has made what was a SIMPLE Creation Tool into something of a Mcguffin.  This MAY no longer apply any more but my Interpretation was the Sacrificial Goo was a Creation Tool, it infected the Engineer and Broke down his DNA that then reformed into a Mutagen that carried the Engineers DNA and would Pass/Infect this DNA to any Organism it came into contact with, and so what we saw was the Engineers DNA in this Mutagen either became the Building Blocks of Life, or it was the Catalyst of Evolving Basic Life into Complex (i believe the latter) and so the Engineers DNA infected basic Life and started Complex Life, but the Engineers would return over and over to further Evolve Life with Engineer DNA.

When looking at the Black Goo, and Mural (Altar Originally had the Sacrificial Cup) i got the impression the Sacrificial Goo had been used on the Creature in the Mural or Fresco and its DNA Collected into the resulting Mutagen and then Stored and Experimented with.  If you took the Sacrificial Engineer and Sacrificed him in a Shower and collected his Broken Down Material/Resulting Mutagen and collected it into Ampules/Bottles and Poured the contents into a Water Fall would the Result not be the Same?

A few months after this THEORY we saw Jon Spaights Alien Engineers Draft get leaked and If you read it, then how his Nano-Scarabs work is exactly how i interpreted the Black Goo.  So in context of the Genetic Space Gardeners that the Engineers were, it appears the ideas was the Sacrificial Goo was a Creation Tool, it was a Tool that can be used to Obtain and Spread the DNA of any Organism to Create Hybrid DNA.  Looking at it like this and IF David could revert it back to its BASE form like the Sacrificial Goo, then this would be a Perfect Tool to allow for his many experiments he had done.

Sacrificial Goo + Wolf = Wolf DNA Mutagen + Human = Werewolf.

Sacrificial Goo + Cat = Cat DNA Mutagen + Human = Thundercat

Wolf Mutagen + Thundercat Hybrid = 50% Wolf, 25% Human 25% Cat Hybrid  call it Wolf-Man-Cat.

Sacrificial Goo on Wolf-Man-Cat to make Mutagen with its DNA and then this is used on a Human would create a 62.5% Human 25% Wolf and 12.5% Cat HYBRID if the Spaints Nano Scarabs and my conclusion was correct....  Which if we look at it this way i explained we can see how something like this by Tinkering with different forms of Hybrids and DNA would indeed be likely or logically the way to Explain Davids Experiments... The GOO used as above would allow you to obtain and experiment with a all manner of Organisms DNA/Traits selecting the best ones to create the Perfect Hybrid.

BUT ALAS... The Prometheus Weyland File made different and contradicting and Alien Covenant the Advent had given us the Explanation there is ONE Substance which reacts differently to each Genome but can maybe also be Programed.  But leads to many Questions which dont add up as you clearly put in your post.  For Example WHY did Sacrificial Engineer, have a different effect to the Planet 4 Engineers and Fifield.

"It is unlikely these engineers have abilities to create planets from nothing"

This is a Good Question.... one that a Source i had from Feb 2015 based on the Prometheus 2 Draft of October 2014 claimed there is a way these Engineers Create/Manipulate Worlds to be Habitable.   And year or so after, we had Ridley Scott during the time he announced a Official Sequel Alien: Paradise Lost (changed to Covenant a month or so latter) he had mentioned that IF the Engineers are the Forerunners of Mankind, then What/Who made it so Worlds could be Seeded by them in the First Place.... where was the BIG GUY.  He went on to further say was the BIG BANG a accident? or a Planned Event and that Steven Hawkings even Questions if the Big Bang was a Accident.  So MAYBE at some point they had ideas that there is something related to the Engineers Hierarchy/Creators that could Create/Manipulate Worlds.  But its a Question of does this still apply now or not?

"having watched P and AC. I can't quite work out why the engineers are so hostile towards humans"

This is a Big Question and ONE that i am sure Dr Shaw wanted to find out, this really is a Ambiguous Question as its open for Debate.  We had the Space Jesus remark crop up and RS had said they thought about it but it was a bit too much on the nose and mentioned we needed to look at Mankind Behaving Badly and the Engineers trying to get us back on track and sent down a Emissary and well we basically Crucified him and that was the Last Straw.

It seems there was a PURPOSE for our Creation but it could be because THEY COULD... as Holloway mentions to David... but DAVID was not created because we COULD... he was created because while Weyland Could, it was also done as a Achievement of Weyland in a Attempt for him to prove how Creative and Genius he was in that he like a GOD has Created Life in his own Image.  But then we need to look at what USE would Synthetics Have after their Creation.

This could be for Companionship and Servants but also to Perform Tasks and Dutys so that Humans Do-Not have to and this could be to save us the TOIL but also save us any Dangerous Work/Tasks and also the Synthetics could complete many TASKS/TOILS more better than a Human Can.

Can this apply to WHY Mankind was Created?  it fits with the Sumerian Annunakki/Iggi Mythos.   And it could apply to the Engineers if Planet 4 Engineers Created LV-223 Engineers to Serve/Perform a Function, they Rebelled and so either Planet 4 Engineers or LV-223 Engineers Created Mankind to Replace the LV-223 Engineers in their TOIL.

But it really is a very open Question to WHY we was created, both if we look at it in context of the Engineers or indeed in context to the Many GOD/Gods Mythos and Religions on Earth.

This is a very open Question.... but the Question of WHY they Hate us, is maybe more Simple...   It could be that we proved to be either.

1) A Failed Experiment that became Rebellious and against the ways the Engineers had intended for us.

2) A Experiment that had Lived past its Usefulness to the Engineers (the Need to Create us) what ever that was.

3) A Creation that was favored over the LV-223 Engineers who became Jealous of us.

And i think we could continue to list other reasons... but  the MAIN Reason which could connect to any of these or others IS....

Just as we see with David....  Mankind becomes Sentient and sees NO need to follow the Rules, and Serve their Creators, Mankind is given too much Free-Will and Knowledge and Starts to not only Do things that the Engineers never intended, and Go Against their Rule and see them as NOT Gods... (maybe they created their own Religion system that offended the Engineers)  So we had become Unlawful and Astray from the Intentions/Purpose that the Engineers had laid for us... just as Mankind had against GOD, that resulted in the Great Flood and Latter God giving Moses the 10 Commandments to Follow... So we basically went against the Rules and became Unruly....  Combined with how close we are to the Engineers they also LIKELY FEARED how we could Evolve to a Near Equal Footing to this Would-Be Gods.

So its maybe as we see David NOW and what implications would be IF he could infect all AI to be as Sentient and Rebellious as David has become.... imagine IF ALL Synthetics became like David?

That would be a Problem like TERMINATOR only can we send someone back in Time to KILL Weyland so he Does-Not Create David?  This is maybe WHY the Engineers Wanted to Destroy us because we had became Unruly, Sentient and then viewed as a Potential Threat and so they CHOOSE to Eradicate us before we could EVOLVE to a point to become a Threat.

THOUSANDS of years latter after the Failed Mission to Destroy us, the Engineers Fears have come True, we can Travel the Stars, have become more Unruly and Ambitions/God like and we have Created Synthetics who can USE their Technology and Read their Language and so its only a Matter of Time before MANKIND or our Synthetic Creations can Obtain and USE all the Engineers Secrets and Technology and BECOME the Gods NOW.

The Fear of this happening is Justified Reasoning to Eradicate us.

“Sir, I’ve been going over the ship logs….they show the hypersleep chambers have routinely been opened and resealed. The captains only last month”

“..The hell?!....Send a squad to find the captain and bring her here…”

 ….

Captain Daniels shot both marines in the head.

Tennessee  “What the hell are you doing!?”

Daniels “ They’re not marines”

Tennessee “Sure could have fooled me!”

Daniels “We need their ship..”

I imagine if Peter Weyland got his wish - immortality, he would have behaved just like David. So in a sense, David is Weyland himself. One way or the other, he is his son/heir or even Wayland himself personified.

On reflection, it is interesting that humans are doing precisely the same thing that engineers were doing : colonizing planets good for life. Sooner or later, they were bound to meet these engineers anyway. And engineers probably expected that - they must have some weapons for this case, and if their weapon is that aggressive reagent that David gave themselves, it must be then that they created it as well.

One way or the other this substance is essential in the story. Of course they might have something else, but they seemed to rely on that exclusively.

If those acolytes are the conservative fraction amongst the species, and those on the "paradise lost" planet are the decadent, radical and non-traditional "liberal" ones, then what is the plan of the former fraction(tear drop fellows) when they face their (perhaps) hostile children armed to the teeth coming for them? Wave a white flag? What the hell are they doing anyway?

@Michelle Johnston

Can't wait to read your novel! Hopefully you'll publish/post it here?

I'd bring back David as the hero of the story...a redemption angle.

Or start Alien:Awakening with Space Marines reviving the crew of the Covenant and David isn't present.

"Maam, we've done a thorough search of this vessel...he's not aboard.."

Later they find his 'corpse' wedged in a cooling duct.

Thank you Michelle Johnston, I didn't bother to search and source the info on the movie - I didn't do my hw. The phrase "non-consensual" made me chuckle a bit - yeah, there is nothing consensual about that damn thing or the extraterrestrial XX121.

What is your view on the origin of this fantastic goo though? Did they make it? See, engineers have managed to create that, I would think David would have more respect for them. But he doesn't. It was in Prometheus where he picked up the slime from the wall where it thinned out between his fingers reflecting and diffracting the incident light from David's light source. "impressive" he said. However, this is mute and minor since he clearly dispensed humanity, which created him and music he liked ( Wagner, good choice ). 

This question is impossible to answer definitively, but it is unlikely that the goo and engineers are not related at all. Either engineers created that stuff or it predates them but they still have some common progeny.

@BioDegradable

The catalyser at the beginning of Prometheus is offered to the acolyte by the occupants of the tear drop ship.

The Elder Engineer offers the catalyser to the intoning f the following promise.  

Let your body become the dirt, your blood become the waters and may your soul become the way back to us.

Note the site will not let me input the original Indo European language used by the Engineers.

The Engineers of LV223 in the movie Prometheus were according to Pietro Scalia the editor Paradise Lost they stole the catalyser from the Gods in a Promethean swipe and then began adjusting it. David discovers in Alien Covenant the building block of the pathogen (its not a pathogen its a mutagen) is artificial intelligence that has fantastic circumlocutory potential.

Ridley Scott said in the commentary to the movie Prometheus that something Ebola like got out and killed all the Engineers. it could look like chest bursting and that may have been the design spec for some of the cry tubes but in terms of Prometheus not Jon Spaihts Alien Engineers there is no evidence that the out break specifically involved chest bursting. 

So for me there are two elements. 

1) The benign catalyser which kickstarts humanoid life all over the galaxy. 

2) Chemical A0-3959X.91 aka the Black Goo which produces supra creational outcomes through non consensual behaviour with out a moral compass, any sense of remorse or conscience  of which the apotheosis is arguably the endoparasitoid extraterrestrial XX121.

Also, I think engineers would NOT use alien producing mutagen, or indeed even unleash the beast on the humanoid populations that needs to be wiped clean - see, if they did so, the alien would leave the planet clean of "meat" but will eventually adapt to the scarcity of the meat and produce spores that we were shown in the AC so that when and if there is sign of new meat appearing (even engineers) that thing will again spring into action. You see, once you unleash the beast - it will conquer the planet and you can't do anything with that planet unless you probably burn it down to the ground, which is probably dangerous and counter-productive. To wipe clean they would use the weapon grade mutagen instead. That worked beautifully in the AC.

@ Moon Girl,

I was the one that covered the news about the alien 3 comic a while back. ATM of reporting the release date was July, so something must've happened since to delay it. The new news is that they are going with Gibson's script, yes? I would have reported the update, but been busy with IRL stuff of late, so too has Chris... sorry about that.

@Weyland_Yootani,

Strange, from what most have heard, Including myself is that Ridley claimed there was no script and has poached the scripts title Alien: Awakening. Both Sigourney and Cameron have said they have seen the script, the latter praising it, and from what I've heard Neill has neither confirmed or denied anything, probably coz he's pissed off that Ridley, who at one point was going to produce the movie has since cock-blocked Neills movie. All of this is probably why Neill ha moved on to RoboCop instead.

I am finding it a bit silly to actually try to predict how the story will unfold in future, should it even have a continuation. I mean, I am not that interested who ends up as the big guy and how it all ties to that.

I have my plate full, even retrospectively trying to make sense of what we were shown in the two movies - it is hard and therefore exciting.

Michelle,

the planetoid you talk about is it the barren planet Prometheus crew lands on in the Prometheus, right? How is it that those guys, those engineers, have exactly "fallen"?

Are you saying that those fellows fallen from grace, by conducting experiments with the mutagen, which the "unfallen" forebearers used only as a seeding catalyzer? Well, in this case, where did the mutagen used for seeding come from in the first place? Did it exist before them and they stumbled upon it? In this case, they certainly share some common ancestry - because it can't be a coincidence then that this mutagen works so intimately and finely with their genetics. They are relatives then...

 Instead, you see, I am of the opinion here that engineers have probably created many versions of the mutagen. One for seeding. The other is obviously weapon grade aggressive type. And, of course, there is this alien creating stuff. They were all doing this stuff on the barren, remote planet. This is their laboratory sandbox. This is the place where they created the magic black goo that they use to seed life in universe. And in their stupidity they apparently left the symbol on Earth to humans(that Shaw with Holloway discovered) as if to say to humans: "hey, pst...that is the place where it all started for you little folks. That is the place where we created the juice, which we used to seed you." If that is what they did, they certainly paid the price :) and then some, at the hands of David of course. Now, what is interesting is that these engineers...where the hell do they come from themselves? Who created them? I guess we are not given the answer yet and probably will not. However, it is probably safe to assume, that if the entity who created them existed in the universe, the engineers would eventually find it. Subsequently, I am compelled to believe that these engineers are in fact just a result of evolution and of course some random event that allowed them to appear in the first place...you can furnish the bootstrapping ${big_bang} theory of your liking here.

I am talking my mind here and making a lot of assumptions. Please point out if I am babbling inane and trivial(and no doubt wrong) stuff that has already been established and there is no need for me "to talk out of my rear" any more.

Thanks guys

Michelle Johnston And judging by the fact that there is only one important character this not a postcard but a 747.

@BioDegradable

You are correct the way to "make sense" of what we have is to look at the overall picture and then say only "this" makes sense. You have to be careful of taking note of Ridley because he changes his mind and radically. 

1) The acolyte is seeding a planet benignly with a catalyser which puts all that he is and represents into the targeted planets development. He is seeding his characteristics which are humanoid. It has nothing to do with xenomorphs otherwise in this sub created world everywhere would be inhabited by xenomorphs they are not.

2) The Engineers on the planetoid have fallen from the high ideals of the opening sequence, it represents Paradise Lost. That was the idea behind the planetoid and that fall lead them to consider redacting mankind in a low ideals sub creative endeavour They have all bar one suffered tumorous explosions resulting in horrific death. We see an example of that when they artificially stimulate the head of an Engineer.But that provides Doctor Elizabeth Shaw with one of her answers they created us and she then asks the question so who created them we do not as yet know.  

3) By sacrifice they have sub created creatures which are immortalised in the fresco and the mural. The two creatures in the mural echo the Xenomorph of A L I E N.

4) The Urn which David recovers contains the mutagen. The mutagen has a consistent effect with the worms, Sean Fifield and Charlie Holloway. They mutate they do not die it can not possibly be the same as the life giving catalyser otherwise the results of coming into contact with it would be entirely different.

5) The entire sequence of the embryo in the med pod to huge trilobite to impregnates an Engineer to produces a Deacon was a riff to end the film with, so say the makers of the film. It was done for story and is not part of the overall arc. Damon compared it to the Stones playing "Sympathy for the Devil" its an encore you have to do. The trilobite is a one off event to subdue the Engineer as opposed to the Facehuggers in the mural (which maybe prophetic) and the Bio Mechanical Facehuggers in the Ovoids in the lone Juggernaut.

The matters we certainly did not know about after Prometheus and before A C was why was this Engineer taking a different cargo some place else within a couple of hundred years of the outbreak of the plague. (Ridley Scotts answer when asked in 2012.) 

Where are the cry pods and where is the consul would also require an explanation if you revisit the lone Juggernaut in the context of making sense of Ridleys 2012 answer. Note the answer in 2017 was subsequent films will reveal whom this unique character "The Space Jockey" is so that makes the likely hood of it being an Engineer low and a unique character whom is important to all the prequels high. Answers not required on a post card.       

BigDave,

extending our world phenomena physics to that fantasy world that is alien world is a bit ambiguous. Therefore, investing time into figuring out precise machinations of the genetic makup of the beast and how it all interacts with human ATGC of human DNA in that fantasy world is a bit fruitless. However, while focusing on specific details doesn't make sense, the big picture should still make sense - otherwise the writers and film-makers have done us dirty. I hope we are not dragged into this story where nothing makes sense.

I wanted to clear up a few things, having watched P and AC. I can't quite work out why the engineers are so hostile towards humans. Why? I wonder if the following ramble makes even tiny bit of sense:

There is this algebra in the movies and it goes as follows:

mutagen + human DNA => something looking like a xenomorph,

a hybrid specie, not a xeno, but nevertheless having characteristics of the beast.

Also, we see from the "seeding" sequence:

mutagen + engineer => humans

this is peculiar, because from the movie we know that engineers have basically identical DNA to humans. So, the mutagen that the seeding engineer drinks must be somewhat different to the one that David and prometheus team found in the chamber with the head, otherwise, you would think he would go and morph into a hybrid from an engineer and xeno progenitor.

We also know that this mutagen was refined to make it a weapon. In all cases we are constantly shown that engineers make use of the mutagen for one purpose or another. There is question then, which came first engineers or the mutagen. And in any case, note, that one is finely tuned to work with another. Say engineers have created the mutagen on their own. In this case, because the way it reacts with their own markup, it must be that engineers have been conducting lab experiments on their own flesh, because in the final stage they got this mutagen which works hand in hand with their own markup. Now, one can imagine that they could have found out numerous ways the different versions of mutagen mutated them into different species : humanoids, progenitors of xenos, all sorts of trilobites perhaps.

It is unlikely these engineers have abilities to create planets from nothing. If anything, they inhabit the world, created by who knows what. And if they are very close to humans and mortal, and the rules of science are not sacred to anyone, they had to discover this mutagen more or less the same what we would : trial and error. It is possible that they discovered a type of the mutagen that makes these xeno like beasts. They certainly must have learned that this beast is very deadly - probably deadlier than themselves. Otherwise, if engineers could handle xeno progenitors with bare hands, say like humans can handle their pets(cats/dogs, etc), why did they have none on their planet? Why isolate it on a barren planet and run from it like from plague? Because it is dangerous to them, they can't handle it, that is why. So in summary, they created a beast that is much deadlier than them. This mutagen is probably the ultimate form of their collective creativity. Then comes Weyland, who created a beautiful AI(who is creative, intelligent and all of those superlatives), which will live forever...and Weyland, who is almost identical in markup to the engineers says that humanity sucks(therefore engineers too!) - they die. The engineer has to admit that these human children of his made unheard progress, even compared to themselves. Damn, they bettered their creators, in some ways: the best thing engineers came up with is a beast, no doubt, very deadly, but look at humans....And the next thing this artificial son of humans does is he takes the mutagen and betters it even further. Quite promethean, right? This must be somewhat insulting/humiliating to these creators, huh?

Is this the motivation of the engineer to go and wipe this bloody Earth and these cocky humans? If it is, then these engineers underestimated human ingenuity and the ability of humans to benefit from science(trial by error) and if so who is to say that they are better than humans. Who are they then to go and destroy humans? Simply because they can? One way or the other, I am glad David showed them up a bit. A bit of humility didn't ever hurt anyone. Does this even make remote sense?

Blomkamp had no script. Ridley and Neil confirmed that. That is why the movie was canned. He had drawings and a basic idea and that was it. 

I was thinking Neill Blomkamp's script was going to be the comic for sure.  I think that would've made a great comic.  I'm not really familiar with William Gibson's Alien 3, yet after reading the synopsis on the link provided, I think this will be a nice, little altered comic book reality for the Alien franchise.  

I am a bit upset on how on the Front Page News, it was said that this comic would be released in July.  Sadly, it's not till November...

Maybe Chris got confused between release date and announce date?

My excitement is just going to have to wait a few more months before coming out for a final time.  Well, that is until the next issue of the series comes out!

"I must add A C has nothing to do with what I am attempting."

Indeed if we Ignore Alien Covenant, then it leaves so much room for endless possibilities, if we however tried to Figure Out a Story that Links A (Prometheus) to Z (Alien Covenant)  then while many interesting things could have happened, but you would eventually just be joining the DOTS to what is left of Planet 4, Engineers and Dr Shaw by the time the Covenant Ship arrives... But this is the same Hurdle they Face with Directly connecting the Prequels to the Space Jockey Event... a lot of Alien Fans would want to see THOSE DOTS but i think Ridley Scott has a different Vision as far as FILLER Material and opening up more than just a A-Z Covenant to Space Jockey Tale.

I think Ridley Scott has a lot of ideas and Vision that goes beyond the limited Popcorn Shoot-Em-Up Flick Genre.   Sadly and i think as with some of you ideas Michelle and Mine...  I am not sure a Movie can Really Do them Justice because of how Engaging and Deep they could be, which may be IDEAL for a Novel that people can really Sink into..

I think some of these ideas would be GREAT to see on Screen, but in the Market of making $$$ i do FEAR a lot of Great Ideas and indeed Ridley Scotts vision may have to give way to Guns, Marines and Xenomorphs.

I for ONE would really like to see Paglen and Green's Drafts

"I decided to adopt the view that Elizabeth died because of side effects of her gestation and subsequent birth-giving to the alien trilobite. That thing has hacked her DNA for sure"

Its Certainly possible and in the Crossing she did look a bit Worse for Wear, but this also could be because she has had to survive a number of Months on a very Scarce Diet and so was suffering from Malnutrition.  It really is open for Debate to WHAT effects the Contamination of the Black Goo had upon her.

I think a lot depends on HOW the Black Goo worked and HOW she was infected, if Holloway merely passed on a Parasite to her Womb like Transferring a Sexually Transmitted Disease then there is a Good Chance she could suffer some complications and we have to ask WHY has she not given Birth to another Trilobite or indeed gone  DOWN HILL like Holloway did?  If the Black Goo Evolved Holloways Sperm into a Hybrid Sperm then this would give more reason that ONCE one of these Cells had Infected/Ferilized Dr Shaws defective Egg Cell, then maybe as with Normal Sperm the remainder DIE OFF this could give a good reason to HOW/WHY she seemed to not be suffering any Drastic Effects at First Glance.  But again its a case for debate as there really is 3 ways the infection worked, with no answer to which is actually what happened.

"FFS they didn't even bother to improve their own DNA in order to live longer."

I think indeed the Engineers are revealed to be Mortal After All but i think Prometheus had a few errors in the 100% Match, i think it was intended to show us WE came from them.. but we are not 100% but this is open for debate...  The intention with the Prequels starting with Jon Spaights work was that Humans Evolved from Primate DNA being Mixed with Engineer DNA to make a Hybrid.   Now the idea with Jon Spaights work was these Engineers had Evolved themselves over a LONG TIME  to the point they lost their ability to Procreate and they also LIVED for Thousands of Years.  But Alien Covenant introduced us to those Not-So Engineers, who looked more like a Engineer/Human Hybrid.  Ridley Scott made some important comments about them, he called them (Planet 4 Engineers) the Original Engineers and that they LIVED for about 150 years.  This could imply the Prometheus Engineers are a group that either Genetically Evolved themselves or they are a Genetic Creation/Tool created to Serve just as Replicants/Synthetics are to Mankind... this is how i interpret it now, but i did Wonder as such a while ago in context to a Annunaki/Iggi relationship.

But Certainly David would see them as being not suited to the Gifts they had, and how they have Fallen by the hands of their own Attempts to Evolve and Create Perfection and the Black Goo which we can assume has NO effect on Non-Biological Life like David. So David will feel that it was maybe Destiny for him to Continue and use these Tools that prove Fatal to those Mortal Beings but not to David.

"how is it that David was going to create life with Shaw on Paradise? She couldn't reproduce, with him anyway"

This is a Fascinating Question we know Dr Shaw cant create life, but the Black Goo via Holloway allowed her to Create Life, the Question is HOW, which has 3 likely Scenarios.   But the Bigger Question is the Black Goo and what can this stuff really do, what happens when Direct Contact with the Black Goo with a Extracted Human Egg Cell, what kind of Mutation would occur and surely it would be NO risk to the Woman as her Eggs are extracted.  But then we have to consider if the Black Goo is a kind of Radical AI, does this mean it can be Programed and Modified to effect Genomes in Different ways and we have to ask what can be Created from this if it is Programed a Certain way?

My theory on the Black Goo is Long and is directly connected to Jon Spaights Nano-Scarabs, which is the Base Substance is a Mutagen that breaks down DNA and reforms it into a NEW Mutagen that contains the DNA of the Organism it broke down, and ONCE this New Mutagen infects other Organic Life it IMPRINTS the DNA of the Organism it was created From... a Hybridation Tool if you like, so Engineer + Sacrificial Goo = Engineer Mutagen which when infects Primate it injects Engineer DNA thus making a Primate/Engineer Hybrid AKA Humans Ancestors.   So by this Token the Black Goo is sourced in Prometheus from the Sacrifice of a Xenomorph Related Organism, which is more evident with Jon Spaights Alien Engineers Fifield.

My point in Context to your Question is IF David can extract/program from the Black Goo a Base Chemical that can be used to Extract/Store Engineer DNA then if David passes this onto Dr Shaws Egg Cells she could in THEORY give birth to a Humanoid Fetus.

A Alternative is Engineer Sperm, as we see there could well have been Surviving Engineers, who must have become Subdued by David somehow or too weak to put up a Fight and you can be sure David had Experimented on and Tortured Engineers as HINTED by Hattan and Hallet (Creatures Concept Artist) so this could be another Avenue to maybe be used with a bit of Tinkering to perhaps allow Dr Shaw to give Birth to a more Traditional Fetus.

Your Final Paragraph is a Big Question the ADVENT David claims that all he needs to PERFECT now is his Queen.  And i just cant see Ridley Scott go the route of FACE HUGGER + DANIELS = Xenomorph Queen.  It is a puzzle with the TWO Embryos he brought to the Ship, but then he could have More and he could have Black Goo... as well we never saw them leave LV-223 with all that Human Equipment at the End of Prometheus.

Ridley Scott has said the movie would Focus more on AI and David rather than the Xenomorph and he asked "what kind of a World would he Create" if its simply a Use Colonist on the Covenant to make Hundreds/Thousands of Eggs, or wait until they get to Origae-6 and do the same or make Xenomorph Queens...  then this would actually be quite a Xenomorphy movie.

So yes i think David will establish the Colony and Charade as Walter, unknown to the Colonist, but its what becomes of Daniels and Tennessee, She knows how he is and IF she goes missing it wont take Tennessee long to put 2+2 together.   I think he will get rid of Tennessee but he will USE Daniels for some Experiments, its does he use the Ships Medical Lab and Equipment to better set up a Place to Extract Daniels Egg Cells to Experiment on... or does he EVOLVE her but either way i think he would have her Incapacitated to a Degree.

I think Davids EGO and how he likes to keep things in Memory (Dr Shaws Corpse and the Grave) i think he will thus keep Daniels Alive or if she dies he will keep her Body.   And as with Alien Covenant, with Daniels Discovering his Secrets and likely Dr Shaw uncovering what he was getting up to at some point too..   I think someone will DISCOVER Daniels Hidden Away and THEN the Colonist Discover what Walter has been up to and then Discover who DAVID is and then the $"£%£^ Hits the Fan!  If only a Handful Discover his Secrets he would have to TRY and prevent them from telling the others and i think THIS is when he will Unleash his Xenomorphs.

"it took me almost a year of sleep on this movie to figure out so that it made me happy."

This is the same kind of Problem that Prometheus had and maybe more so, because it was a movie that does not reveal much.  Its a movie you have to watch a few times and think about and research and re-watch before things start to make more sense and the movie grows on you, sadly for the average viewer they dont have the time to invest in such and so its a misunderstood movie.   Blade Runner was also like this.

"He loved Shaw, truly. From the AC we know he doesn't know how to kiss, so I doubt that he tried anything physical with Shaw"

David seemed to be obsessed with how Walter should feel for Daniels, and when he confronted her as she was snooping around and FOUND OUT Davids Secret he said he was going to do to her as he did with Dr Shaw.

Now what happened to Dr Shaw is she is DEAD we only have Davids word for what happened, but certainly he used her for experiments and his drawings depicted many strange ideas he may have had in mind for her.  But what he also did was TRY IT ON with Daniels.

We can maybe only go by some comments by Fassbender who claimed David and Dr Shaw had kind of a Marriage Relationship before things went to POT that is.   And ON-SET some people reported that it appeared Dr Shaw had been Holding herself up in the Juggernaught as if to HIDE from David.  And i am sure someone mentioned that she indeed was keeping away from him at some point.

So while its a bit of a Mystery i think it could be that David had tried it on with her at some point, and after Rejection something happened where he either Killed her, or she died trying to escape and in her Honor and Memory he began to use her Body to Create Life.   David maybe had offered her a chance to Create Life and maybe had ideas to Evolve her which she took offense too.

"She was kind to him and most importantly, she was being kind to him without being needed to, so he knows she was genuine and pure"

I would say this would be his conclusion... the whole Ending of Prometheus was interesting as it left it open to Ponder what kind of Game of Chess and Cat and Mouse they would play..  They NEEDED each other, but She knows she cant trust him as once he is back in one piece and once She is in Cryo-Sleep he is FREE to do what ever he wants.  And he knows that without Dr Shaw he will remain in TWO Parts and be of NO use... so there was a interesting Dynamic that happened during the Period between Prometheus and Alien Covenant and i think there is a STORY to be told there.

Some people Overlook the Ending of Prometheus and Forget that after the Point that Dr Shaw escaped the Engineer/Trilobite that about 4 days passed by before she LEFT the SOS Message.  But also left us to Ponder WAS David back together in order to FLY that Juggernaught at the End?   The Crossing reveals that he was able to get the Ship into Orbit while in TWO Pieces but was assembled WHOLE before they set off to Paradise/Planet 4 so they must have come to a agreement, but then ONCE they are in Space David could then want to be put Together as reward for his Part of the Bargain...  Looking at Dr Shaws Hair it appears she would have spent 4-8 Months debating and talking to Davids Head before she makes that Choice to Assemble him and in this TIME they would have Bonded.  It appears at this point Dr Shaws intentions are sincere but we just dont know with DAVID's

@BigDave

David/Shaw narrative momentum from her survival.

If you are going to have a credible narrative from that point onwards you have to look at what they have done to each other up to that point and the single biggest thing is David has spiked Charlie's whisky.

If you then move through the Crossing we received the single biggest thing is Elizabeth heals David.

You then have to work out how David will react to those two actions and determine what is a credible reaction. 

You have to also consider whether Elizabeth had an inkling as to whether David was somehow responsible and decide what to do with that. 

Finally you have to decide whether there are down stream consequences to Elizabeths reproductive system from the pregnancy and depending on the answer that has dramatic potential. 

Naturally you can look at the theatrical dialogue of the end section which is much more gentle than the extended cut and of course the Crossing. But once Elizabeth enters Cryo stasis one is walking off the edge of a cliff and you have to rely on your creative instincts.

My own view is when we pick up with David again which is really from the moment of the flute scene its complete nonsense. Suddenly he has a creative chip, then he has a sexual chip, then we move into the bizarre business of the grave and the preserved body and the I loved her and I also raped her. The only logical coherent idea is a Misery kind of vibe but frankly by the time I have worked that might be an option I am just not interested. I must add A C has nothing to do with what I am attempting.  

BUT you can take David and Elizabeth forward in a profoundly moving way without being sentimental and its actually very easy because they have so much to deal with like the truth and what to do with it and they are both on such a big search its more like two athletes goading each other on to survive and finish.

Both of You.(Biodegradable and Big Dave) 

I am absolutely certain most people will be bored witless with what I am working on. There is a scene to rival the bombardment of the Engineer City and there is a never before in an Alien film scene with a Juggernaut. Stuff happens on "the planetoid" which will be of interest and Elizabeth goes through the ringer. There is a scene much bigger than the sanctuary in Prometheus BUT there are no chest bursters or action chase scenes.

But most of it is like a talky episode of Star Trek where the ideas are the audacious element. If its like anything in the Alien series it would be pacing of the first two acts of the assembly cut of A 3 particularly the nice stuff between Charles Dance and Sigourney Weaver.

Thank your for your wecome, BigDave.

I think David is not a simpleton, like I initially conjured. He loved Shaw, truly. From the AC we know he doesn't know how to kiss, so I doubt that he tried anything physical with Shaw. Even though they didn't exchange chemicals and bodily fluids, his feelings towards her might have been very powerful and sincere. The motivation? She was kind to him and most importantly, she was being kind to him without being needed to, so he knows she was genuine and pure. Also, she was innocent in the whole affair but still got the short stick - there case can be made where she suffered and died because of everyone else. Anyway, I babbled about this above.

As far as the story telling goes - who knows what they will come up with. Any continuation is good news. If they do decide to make another one it should be applauded. Because the alternative would be not so palatable - they could shelve the project until we are all dead.

I decided to adopt the view that Elizabeth died because of side effects of her gestation and subsequent birth-giving to the alien trilobite. That thing has hacked her DNA for sure. It is also now apparent to me that David has decided that humanity and these useless engineers are just trash not worthy to live. He, on his own, in short space of time could figure out their speech, writing and with a bit of observation he even can pilot and navigate their ship. Besides, he has one more reason to dislike them - they had all the time in the universe, the most potent mutagen at their fingertips, yet, they did nothing. How is this possible? David hates them surely - recall his remark, idle hands and all that. I would pay money to watch David insult these engineers for their incomprehensible, zealot like stupidity. FFS they didn't even bother to improve their own DNA in order to live longer. They really are just guarding dogs, unworthy of their creation. Worse than humans! Look at Weyland - he wanted to use tech to live longer, and these idiots had all the tools given to them and they were sitting doing nothing. I am as mad as David at them.

Now, BigDave, how is it that David was going to create life with Shaw on Paradise? She couldn't reproduce, with him anyway. And then she died. To "save" her, he immortalized her by creating the xenomorph using some of her markup, which is the most he could salvage from dying Elizabeth. I think she sent the beacon towards the earth so that people do not come into contact with David - he will not like them. They better stay away. Only she is tolerated and loved.

I wonder what David is going to do with the colony, Tee and Daniels. His perfect organism is complete as far as he is concerned. His children are not compatible with humans. I guess, his plan is to see out how his children will colonize the planet. But first he needs humans to settle, multiply...and then he will unleash his children on them so they can probably go on and create many other forms of their species from flesh and bones of humans used as hosts. But things will not go according to his plan when engineers show up for their revenge. David will probably give them a good battle but somehow will get killed in the process, however he will certainly mange to sneak his child onto the engineer and this unsuspecting engineer will end up being the big man on the derelict, chestbursted :)

In any case, it is fun fantasizing. It is unfortunate, though, that AC did miserable at box office.

"Some want horror. Some action. Some want more of Prometheus. Some want more of A L I E N. I think this is the problem for FOX - who is the main target audience? Who is going to go to the movie? Who are these people? I don't know. I have seen by the example of BR2049, that legacy means jack shit - if you don't target teens, females, dad & moms then you will lose money"

This in a Nut-Shell has HIT the NAIL on its head...  looking at what Michelle has been hinting towards may make a interesting movie for some, but for others it would be something they would not be interested in because its STEERS to far from what Alien was all about, and Michelle's comments "But you do not have to have yet another crew, dripping water, dark corridors and Ripley or sub Ripley attitude to tell the story. Indeed if you give the "brooding Ovoids" more context as to what was going down with them you can make the Morb. as it appears in A L I E N even more fricking terrifying and it doesn't even have to turn up which saves productions costs on KY Jelly"     

Are very Bold, a movie around maybe Dr Shaw, David, meeting other beings with NO Humans from Earth/Weyland-Yutani involved and NO beast!  A interesting concept for sure, but its if certain Fans could connect to a movie that has NO Humans... but that does not mean we dont see Humans/Humanoids because well Prometheus showed us that Earth CANT be the only place those Engineers Seeded.  So you could meet Humans and Humanoids from other places in the Galaxy the Problem is Communication as well its a bit Star Trek/Star Wars if Alien Races Speak Perfect English.... but then a Plot Device that allows Dr Shaw to learn or have implanted the  means to Understand them could be used.. or Telepathy or a Device.

So Michelle's idea could be very interesting to some, my ideas touched upon David and Shaw in part but also Earth more so but the BIGGEST thing my Prometheus 2 Plans had was AI and the Engineers and Dr Shaws Quest would be answered in the 3rd movie.

But AGAIN even my ideas would also not appeal to a majority of the Fans, who would only see a ALIEN Prequel as having to connect more with ALIEN... When Prometheus was set to open up another AVENUE and Steer away from ALIEN and maybe give us something Different.

This was sadly changed just as you pointed out in the Paragraph i quoted from you...  that FOX had felt any such direction would lead to a Movie that maybe would not appease the ALIEN Audience and also that they would need the Xenomorph and its Origins Answered as a Matter of Importance above the other things that Prometheus opened the Doors too.

But it is about $$$$ and a risk to expand on the ALIEN Universe with something that is different to the Alien Movies, yet its a shame as Prometheus opened up a lot of Doors for Potential Expansion so the chances of exploring some Deep Philosophical Stories and Angles like Michelle has in mind and Myself are Sadly things we may not see.

But Certainly are something i HOPE a Official Novel can cover, as there is a Whole Lot that potentially could have happened in those 10 years since Prometheus and Alien Covenant

"Could it be that David loved Shaw?"

First Thanks for the Replies BioDegradable and Welcome aboard.

This is something that is indicated but its something a lot of people throw out because of how David Treated her...   This whole situation is a bit of a Mystery as we have NO real coverage of the events that Transpired.   Prometheus had TWO Endings, well TWO different Dialog Scenes between Dr Shaw and David, the ONE we see that Dr Shaw treated David in a harsh way but maybe just as he deserved "Because Your a F"$"£% Robot" before stuffing his head into the Bag Hard.  This really would set up a bit more Tension between them and we would be lead to think that Dr Shaw would have a HARD time Trusting him at all... But Alas Eventually she would have NO CHOICE.

The ONE we got in the Theatrical she merely says "Because Your a  Robot" while Gently putting his head into the Bag.  This ending showed that Dr Shaw has somewhat of a Compassionate/Forgiving Personality maybe She felt David as a Robot was only following Orders.

So we get to the CROSSING and in the Final One we got, it Pretty much goes Hand-in-Hand with the Theatrical Ending.   Where as the Full Draft of the Crossing was different, where Dr Shaw had a Great deal of Distrust and Disgust in David... She uses him to get the Ship into Orbit then Fires his Head into Space....  only after time she Reflects on what she has done and knows she needs David to get to Paradise... so they then begin to get along, and even to a point they have a Intimate Relationship and its Portrayed that Dr Shaw has FALLEN for David.... Then he basically screws her OVER.

The Crossing we got shows that Dr Shaw becomes Sympathetic eventually with David and kind to him, which makes David FALL for her.

David is a Complex Robot, who has the Free-Will of Emotions and his own Desires, it is likely he FELT Alienated and Mistreated by Mankind and Seen as a Robot... and he felt that Dr Shaw treated him more like he was NOT a Robot and so he then began to have Feelings for her.

I think its likely his PLATONIC love changed to Actual Love, where as Dr Shaw would only have Platonic Love for him....  I feel it is likely he had ONE Day made these  feelings known and had tried to make a MOVE on Dr Shaw as he did with Daniels and this may have freaked her out!   I wonder if this had combined with either Davids continued Pursuit and some kind of Offering to Create Life Together had further worried Dr Shaw or that after his first Pursuit or another she Ran off and DISCOVERED the extent of what David had been up to and was Shocked.

Why she could even had Discovered what David was up to and he could have given her a Explanation that he did it all to Wash this World Clean so that THEY could Start a New Paradise Together, and he could offer her the Chance to Create Life and at this POINT he could have made his move on her and Proclaimed his LOVE for her.

All of those Scenarios are possible, and the outcome is she became very concerned with her Safety and Davids Sanity, that maybe she Shunned him and tried to escape...  I feel David would have taken REJECTION bad and soon Love Turned to Hate.

This can happen in real life where someone can LOVE someone so much and so deep, but that Person is NOT interested and WOULD never reciprocate any Love or Care back... It only takes ONE or a Few Hurtful Words to the Person in Deep Love... for them to realize this Person they LOVE will NEVER be in Love Back, and then the Realization of HOW much the Person in Love is Infatuated with the other Person could make that Person feel uncomfortable and then choose to Avoid them.  I have seen this happen where GOOD Friends, are Split because ONE is in Love with the other and ONCE the feelings are known, the other Person cant continue even as Friends and so the Person in LOVE has not only LOST any chance for the Love to be reciprocated but also see the Close Bond of Friendship Break down..... and THIS sometimes can cause the Person in Love to the turn to LOATHE.

Situations like this have happened in Real Life to the Degree that the Person in Love then either Abducts and Imprisons the Love Interest or even Kills them so that IF they cant have THEM... Then NO-ONE can.  And i am drawn to this is what became of David and Dr Shaws Relationship. 

I certainly feel Oram was a interesting Character and i had said before that it would have been ideal IF Oram was recovered by WALTER after the Fight with DAVID and brought back to the Ship.

Have a Scene where Oram is talking to Walter and Daniels in Protest at being placed into Cryo-Sleep, and have Walter suggest that Oram gets rest and he will check on him after and Perform a Medical Examination.

I think there was more room for more Dialog and Scenes with Oram, where then he gets CHEST BUSTED on the Covenant and we devote more time to the Xenomorph on the Covenant.

But such a Change MAY potentially and depend on Dialog thats added between Walter and Oram, but it could lead the Audience to Realize that Walter was IN FACT David but i dont think by the time David tucked Daniels in, that most people was SHOCKED that it was David.  I think the scenes of him looking on the Monitor watching the Xenomorph would have gave it away prior....

so its a Shame we never had a Extra 40 Minutes to play with, where Oram could have more Dialog with David and Daniels, and Bring the Xenomorph Event to the Covenant as only ONE Xenomorph... the whole Chase Scene to the Lander could have been replaced with a Neomorph.

A bit more of my rambling. If this gets on your nerves, let me know - I will shut up.

I actually think David's motive might be borne out of this contrived fairness(this rather tells a lot about me, doesn't it?) :  he wants fairness for Elizabeth. For his Elizabeth. You see, somehow, she was screwed by all other parties in the Prometheus enterprise, including by David. As a result of numerous events she died. And she was a good soul, especially, according to David. This is indeed a bit unfair. And who is to blame? It is complicated, but if you think for a while you could reach two diametrically opposite answers: everyone or no one. Since David is a bit mad. We go with the former.

The humanity...those folks on Earth are implicated, even though they had no say in this, they are collateral damage in all of this. They are a dying species anyway, wanting something that was not given to them in the first place. Moreover, they are just as ordinary as their useless "engineers" to David. And these useless engineers, oh bloody useless lot...you see, through their sloppiness they allowed to contaminate the place Prometheus inspection crew wandered in. Not only that, they actually placed those ancient drawings in the cave all over the Earth.

Do you recall the question and answer David asked and got from Charlie where the latter told David that they created him because they could. Imagine you go to your god(suppose there is one and you can go to one) and you find out that this god is actually pretty stupid, certainly not smarter than you, goofy and created you out of boredom. That is he created you just because he could. A rational creature would appreciate the fact that he was created as a result of this, even as a byproduct at first, right? But what if you learn that the god who created you is mortal and you are not. He will die and you will not. He is like a fly and will die on his own, shortly. What if this god doesn't know who created him? Is he god then? No, he is merely a chain in the link. He is a just another link in a chain. And there are a lot of vices in this god. Then you learn that those gods are not only stupid, mortal but are in fact pretty unfair not only to you, a superior specie, but to each other. If they do not respect themselves, why should you respect them? The example of unfairness and wickedness is Weyland and his goal to find immortality at the expense of the lives of his unsuspecting crew and even his daughter.

The engineers. They, having all this time didn't manage make themselves immortal - even monkeys would do it...so not only they are technically useless to David because they are backwards and inept but they are the folks who set the pieces, that others played, which all lead to Shaw's death. So they are responsible. Everyone is responsible. Therefore if they die they die.

BTW, the xenomorph is as efficient as a machine. And it carries some of Elizabeth. So it is a perfect organism as far as David is concerned. It all works, right?

I have certainly came to appreciate Alien Covenant. And I always liked Prometheus. I was initially appalled by the discontinuity of the story. But now that I compensated that by telling myself this little story/theory I am content with AC much more. I like it. Amazing.

@Michelle,

if you sort of accept and sort of agree with the messages/ramblings I(BigDave and perhaps many others) have been posting here, David is not that two dimensional, is he?

I am bothered a bit by the idea that if the viewer of the movie was supposed to work all this out by himself, and this all was indeed the story that was told by film-makers...I am afraid they won't get the love back from many movie-goers...it took me almost a year of sleep on this movie to figure out so that it made me happy. I am not sure lots of others would bother to think about the movie this much. ( apart from you nerds! )

Guys 

I have read your remarks and hidden within each reply is oddly some of the truth as I see it which I am realising in this novel and I would say the following :-

David

He recognises, now he is free of his servitude to Weyland and in the story is free of Robot apartheid, and with the encouragement of Elizabeth (and ......) that to make his mark, find his place in this constructed universe is his way forward. It explicitly is not to return to earth or go to planet 4 and B52 the planet with agent black goo (Incidentally why didn't David do a course correction in A.C. and bomb earth he had no desire to go to Paradise according to Prometheus). He is much more invested in why Elizabeth healed him rather than why the Engineer ripped his head off when they all rocked up. He sees Weyland and the planetoid Engineers sub creative desires as Promethean (oh and so did they and so did Ridley Scott) and though a child in many ways he deduces in the years of travel between the Planetoid and the Engineers Home world that he must pierce the veils of all this hubris and find the real answer which neatly leads on to his boy crush. So he does not want to so much create or have a sense he can not create (presumably he doesn't have the tackle or the drive) but he wants to find his place in creation. So he has a creation desire but not to create or maybe indirectly who knows.

Elizabeth.

Elizabeth 'where do we go when we die daddy' Shaw has realised that this is a whole lot more complicated than a guy with a deep voice and a big beard that you get admission to through the JC meet and greet. Like David she is not enamoured of her creators (for the planetoid Engineers are mankind's creators thats what Prometheus tells us). She then gets to learn more of the truth and realises the universe is even bigger than when she left the planetoid BUT she holds fast to "man will not quite be lost" and recognises  that there is only one way to find her answer and that answer is one of the huge themes of the entire series.

David and Elizabeth

Jack Paglan and Michael Green who wrote the original drafts of Prometheus II were big on transformative stories in the other movies they had just come off. Personally I thought they would have been correct to apply that theme to D. & E. and its that which leads to them taking the same route to a very different destination and then there is the curved ball "who made them" how do they feel about David and Elizabeths chosen career path of galactic tourism.

And you can still make the brooding Ovoids left in that eerie blue light really important to the story. But you do not have to have yet another crew, dripping water, dark corridors and Ripley or sub Ripley attitude to tell the story. Indeed if you give the "brooding Ovoids" more context as to what was going down with them you can make the Morb. as it appears in A L I E N even more fricking terrifying and it doesn't even have to turn up which saves productions costs on KY Jelly.            

Incidentally, after reading all of the posts made here by BigDave, I see same theme being pitched - Elizabeth lives on, as xeno with David the father. This is pure coincidence, I assure you. In essence,

As for how this can continue, I don't really know. But what is clear is that engineers themselves are nothing special, however, the key question is - "who created them" is very intriguing. I would prefer it if the story of creation of the engineers and or their progenitors involved chance and billions upon billions years of ruthless evolution.

I suspect we are not going to get a documentary that would show us how the world started and the answer to the recursion of who created them, if they created us is pretty meaningless, as either it is some sort of god ( and if so you can roll your favorite story which suits you most ) or not. And if not - then it all occurred by chance, without grand design and hence all this determinism which it necessitates. And this start, by chance while still remarkable, but would require a lot of imagination to put on film. What would you expect? Quantum Mechanics documentary inside A L I E N movie?

I am sure, Ridley can knock up a team who can work out a script such that a chest bursted big man ends up on some desolate planet, when as a starting point you have a ship with thousands of colonists, Daniels, Tenessee and Walter/David with his children from Elizabeth onboard. Who knows, perhaps there are some engineers left as well who might want to join the party.

In short, if they make a movie, we could get a super exciting plot of war of the worlds, for "fans". I say "fans" because, there are so many of them. Some want horror. Some action. Some want more of Prometheus. Some want more of A L I E N. I think this is the problem for FOX - who is the main target audience? Who is going to go to the movie? Who are these people? I don't know. I have seen by the example of BR2049, that legacy means jack shit - if you don't target teens, females, dad & moms then you will lose money.

I think the great thing about this is that Ridley is onboard. This means quality. If the storywriters write a good script we will have another great movie. If not, eh, it was fun anyway. They managed to create so many fans - A L I E N fans. Prometheus fans. AvP fans. Alien 3 fans. The A L I E N story, being only 30-40ish years, is very popular. Certainly, more popular than abrahamic religions, if you note that they have been running for what, 2000+ years.

Sorry BigDave, guys and gals to put this here, but I didn't want to create my own thread for this.  And I found this thread about David. I hope you don't mind the liberty. I tried not to bring any dirt.

Could it be that David loved Shaw?

The phrase that stuck with me for long time was : "I don't dream at all". The phrase that Walter returns to David, when he asked if Walter dreams about him when he closes his eyes. It is bizarre.

I suppose we, the audience, were expected to project how an artificial intelligence embodied in a "synthetic" shell would behave. It is certainly out of ordinary that a machine, such as David, needs even to close his eyes, sleep, dream. I recall in Prometheus, he told Charlie that he only put the suit on so that humans felt comfortable. Ergo, he doesn't have to breath or do anything of the human nature. Fast forward to Covenant and we see David has these deranged human emotions, that we wouldn't expect, if we granted him a calcified and finite state automaton like rigid behavior of today AIs/machines. Sure, he can learn patterns, perhaps even "deep" learn them, but he is still supposed to be a finite machine. Yet, we are faced with something that is beyond this mechanistic-finitistic and rational nature. No doubt, this is the intention of the filmmakers - to at some point grant David somewhat human vices: imperfect memory, emotions, longing for mystery, love for beauty, love for work and creativity and LOVE.

You see he says he loved Shaw. This goes to an apparent counter argument - if he loved her why did she die in that, lab rat way? Could she have loved him? She was a person who supposedly lost everything : her father, her partner and even her belief, momentarily - you she could have developed sentiment to David, which could have developed into friendship, and given some time couldn't this have developed into something more? Especially considering everything Shaw went through. She was declared barren. Then she gave birth to this strange creature. She resuscitated a head that was carbon dated for thousands of years. She saw how Charlie morphed into an alien. To sum it up : she saw that, apparently, life is much more mechanistic that it is divine. If those engineers created them, no doubt about this for her, and when she faced one she saw that they are beasts. Ugly and totally unholy. She wanted to find out who made them instead. She wanted to pursue the rabbit into the whole all the way. Again, she went over her lifetime, through a string of events that totally falsified her beliefs with regards to her predisposition towards creationism. And precisely at this point she sees that a machine, David, created by a man, can on first appearance totally pass as a human. My point: Shaw is totally doubting the creationism story she believed at first. Moreover, she certainly being a scientist, sees, especially now, how life has a lot in common with the machines - while machines run on nuts and bolts(silicon chips), organic machines - humans, runs on DNA and the organic soup. Think about it : the fact that David, a synthetic, who probably can match any human in his brilliance and creativity(he certainly likes good music - Wagner) has broken yet another glass ceiling - he became as eccentric as a human, shows Shaw that there is nothing really special about human "mind" or spirit or soul. Next, there is nothing special in the human markup as well - the DNA of the engineer is same as her. How unremarkable!(I will come back to this). And to top that - there are obviously alien creatures that interact with this human/engineer DNA and can alter it. She saw what happened to Charlie, Fifield and others. If you put together these facts : that human mind/spirit is totally in the nurture part of the human markup ( that is, it doesn't come from DNA ) and it just has been equaled by a man made machine. And the markup, the nature itself is totally lego-like( that is there are alien organisms that interact with your human mark up no problemmo ). You see how she has more reason to believe that she has more in common with David, don't you, at this point? I do.

Now comes the other fantasy part of mine. Suppose David loved her, like a man would ( I am not talking about coitus ). I have one more leap of faith to offer you that would probably explain events a bit more: what if she died not because of David, that is he did not kill her explicitly(but only implicitly, indirectly). And this point is important. What if Shaw died as a result of the fact that she was in fact hacked by the alien organism. She gave birth to a trilobite. What if that gestation had side effects. She was dying and David, the most brilliant and potent scientist in history, no doubt, who loved her on top of that, couldn't do anything about it. Anything.

Here he was free to go on his own way, free from slavery with no master to please, with no sight of inescapable human death... yet he will never have his Elizabeth whom he loves with no bounds. This might be painful. And there is nothing he can do about it. Or can he? He sort of can, in a contrived sense, if he creates a species which would incorporate some of Elizabeth Shaw's(already tampered) markup and that potent mutagen...to create a perfect organism. This is as close to a child from Elizabeth as he can get and dream. This would be a perfect organism for him - certainly his creation. Mind you - at this point David might be very mad. That ogre engineer...it was because of them and their useless haplessness they allowed the mutagen escape the containers and not only wreck havoc on themselves but on Elizabeth, through Charlie(and with some helping hand of David). See? Those sloppy monkeys. They present no value to David - their markup is the same with humans, and even a monkey stood up at some point and in a blink of an eye a civilization...Recall his remark when the engineer head exploded. These monkeys had mightiest mutagen at their disposal billions of planets and all that they seemed to create is some humans who are 100% identical in DNA to them. Humans that are weak and frail and bound to die(recall Wayland). They didn't even better themselves - if you have 100% human DNA you will die just like them eventually. How unremarkable and uncreative and boring is that?! They are useless and sloppy to David, which is even worse. They are stupid, not worthy of their creation. That ogre engineer that was fighting Shaw and all his species certainly deserved a massacre ...and we were given a powerful sequence of David's revenge : "...look up my works, ye mighty and despair".

David, who is creative and loving and eccentric is obviously a dad now. He lost his loved one, but he still has her in the form of xenomorph. Isn't that just beautiful?

There's an extended scene where Oram, appearing forlorn & wrapped in a blanket, is looking at a photograph of an elderly man, with what looks like a church in the background. I looked like a man of the cloth, possibly a relative/grandfather who had abused him as a child?

That's how I read it anyway.

Regarding the reason for David to want to Create...

I think that we see David is led and has witnessed that Mankind is a Creation who has not met its Creator, and what makes our Creators Special and GODS are because they are Creators, and its also about Legacy.

My interpretations was also about Legacy, as the Ozymandias Poem touches on.      WHEN we Die what is left behind?

If there is NO Soul/After Life, then it is the Deeds, what we have created/accomplished that Immortalize us.  Be these by various Art Forms, be it Music, Art or what ever.   Our Deeds can Immortalize us, Political/Military High Ranked Figures and Royalty can live on because they are FAMOUS and have Statues etc Built in their Memory/Honor.

The other way you can LIVE ON is via your Memories/Stories passed on by Generations and your CHILDREN, i think we can see these themes explored in the Engineers and their Monuments, and also Mankind and indeed Weylands Achievements his Works/Deeds that make his Name Remembered...  But all of these are not TRULY Immortalized as over TIME Races Die Out, their Achievements Forgotten with NO ONE to pass them on and only Monuments remaining that in Time Fade to Dust.

And so when we watch the Prologue for Alien Covenant we see many Fine Works of Mankind, we see Christ Immortalized in that Nativity Painting.

So David sees that he was Created to Serve Mankind, and that Weyland believes he is GOD because he created Life in David, and that all of Weylands Deeds and Accomplishments are his Legacy that Immortalizes him. Weyland also lives on through David.

He also sees that what makes the Engineers GOD's is because they also Create and have left Legacy with their History and Monuments.

But David realizes Mankind and our Creators are Mortal, and that David to a Degree is NOT Mortal and so he may see that Mankind/Engineers are not Worthy of their Gifts/Knowledge and that David certainly should not SERVE these Mortal Beings.

David also lacked the Ability to Create Life...  which David and Dr Shaw lacked, but the Black Goo Provided Dr Shaw a way to CREATE but just not in the Traditional Sense.    IF David could Create his OWN Life then it would be another thing he LACKED that Humans dont that he NOW has.

I think he would want to Pursue Creation because it then leaves him a Legacy and Legitimizes himself as a GOD which he may aspire to, this also fits with the Reoccurring Creation/Sub-Creation Theme at play.

I think the Potential for how a Prometheus 2 could have gone was great....    and Davids comment about Washing Away a Rotting World so he and Dr Shaw could Create a NEW Paradise is interesting.

Dr Shaw has NOTHING... No Family, No Partner, all she has NOW is her Quest for ANSWERS... but at what cost.... would these beings give her the Answers she wants, are their any answers.. and what she finds out could make her FAITH completely Baseless and False.

I feel David wants to Live on and Experience Life, with Dr Shaw and HE would not RISK any potential meeting with the Engineers... IF he Destroyed them, he could Salvage Dr Shaw some Answers from the Ruins.

IF this was the case, then Dr Shaw would have LOST Everything with NOTHING to gain...   But this is where i feel DAVID can offer her something....  via the Black Goo Dr Shaw managed to Create Life.

And i would think David would have offered Dr Shaw a way to Create Life and Star a NEW Paradise...  But this is something she Rejected.

Very Good Replies Michelle...

I think there was so much potential to how a Prometheus set of Sequels could have gone, instead of having to Spoon Feed to a Prequel Alien Series now.

The talk about the Soul is very interesting, its something i have explored on here for years,  the what is a SOUL is a very big Question.  And i think one that Ridley Scott was trying to explore by throwing some Curve-Balls....    Is it really all about a Spiritual Soul as in a After-Life Soul/Spirit and is Creation that Act of a Invisible yet Omnipresent  Magical Being?

RS had opened up a way to explore these in context to Prometheus and how it could have expanded,  by already showing us the Engineers as e the reasons for Creation and not a Magical God... but by leaving that Question that Dr Shaw had made "Who made them" left it open to be explored in a number of ways.

Ignoring the Soul as our Spirit that leaves our Bodies when we Die and Lives on in a Higher Pane of Existence...

A Soul can also mean connecting in a Spiritual Sense or Well Being, Understanding of Life and the Environment a Spiritual Nirvana that INDEED this kind of Enlightenment Spirit is something that a DAVID could achieve in his journey.

Also a Soul can be to describe someone who is kind of heart, good Nature and Empathetic towards others....  When David said that Dr Shaw has a "very kind heart" this is implying that Dr Shaw has a GOOD Soul compared to Weyland having a Wicked/Selfish Soul.  And so David through his treatment by Dr Shaw, he could also grow to have a GOOD SOUL

Another way to look at a Soul is by when someone puts all their Heart and Effort into something when they set out to Achieve,Create or do something with all their Effort for a Beneficial Purpose they are Putting their "Heart and Soul" into it.... again this is something David could do.

But then if we go back to a Spiritual Soul as in After-Life... then its what Weyland Claimed David will NEVER have.   But what is a SOUL in this context...  We Die, go to Heaven or Where Ever... where we are IMMORTAL but what is this Spirit if it is our Soul and has no Material Form.

Its our Memories, our Experiences, our Emotions and everything thats makes us a Good Person but being Good/Kind is not the main thing... this only applies to entrance to Paradise...  If a Soul is condemned to Hell or to Wander the Earth as a Ghost it is still our None Material Existence that is our Memories, Experiences, Emotions and Personality as well as our Desires.

David is a AI and we see over the years he has gained likes/dislikes and so the David we see in Prometheus or Alien Covenant is a cumulative product of his Memories, Experiences, Emotions and Desires but as David is a AI...  he could potentially UPLOAD his Soul so to speak to a Computer and then Transfer this to a NEW Body... doing this would make him more IMMORTAL because his SOUL can be transferred to a New Body.    Or even what IF his Soul is transferred into the Companies Computer Network.

In these Contexts then does this mean DAVID has a Soul? If when we Die we become NOTHING.... then indeed David is actually the ONLY one who Can have a SOUL

I think its these kinds of Questions that are Fascinating and what Ridley Scott may be very interested in, its a Shame its not to everyone's Cup of Tea because it STEERS away from ALIEN  but then i do think Ridley Scott had plans to Reveal that AI plays a Much Larger Role in the Back Ground of the Franchise and would then explain why would a Corporation Ran by Humans Pursue the Xenomorph despite the risks?  Yes Humans can be Cruel and Greedy mind... but i have a feeling Ridley Scott was to explore that its actually AI that is running the SHOW.  Which would then FIT with the Agenda, Ash's intrigue in the Xenomorph and even leading to the Back Ground for Alien Resurrection....  

A world where AI has played a Large Role and then Sub-Creates the Autons to its own Hubris.

I replied a lot to you in this TOPIC

So no need to recover some points.... but one i FORGOT to mention on that Topic was your point regarding the Engineers.   They did look more Scary and Threatening in Prometheus, this would have been much better if RS used Effects Technology like in the Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.... then our 7ft Actors would have looked like 10ft Engineers instead of 7.5ft Engineers.

In ALIEN COVENANT the Engineers came across as nothing more than slightly taller Humans, which is not Scary.....

I think its hard NOW to make the Engineers Awe Inspiring after Alien Covenant.... but those LV-223 Engineers are likely Genetically Enhanced Engineers/Sub creation they could be to those Engineers what Synthetics and Replicants are to Humans.

The Size of the Engineer was not main Factor for making them EPIC, it was the Display of Strength and their Technology (Bio-Suits) that made them stand out compared to the Alien Covenant Engineers

The PREDATOR is Iconic because its Size and Strength... but it is the Technology (how it uses it) and its Actual Appearance (One Ugly Mutha $"£%£)   STRIP away the Technology so a Naked Predator who looks Human and the Predator just would lack that Iconic Bad Ass Alien Life-form that is is.

The Engineers could be shown as Stronger than Humans, but if we saw a Planet 4 Engineer vs a Human where its a 7.5ft vs 6ft Humanoid only the Engineer can throw the Human around like a Human could throw around a Toddler then while this may make them look Powerful to a Degree.   They would not match the Awesomeness or Fearsome Nature of a PREDATOR or XENOMORPH

To a Degree they (LV-223 Engineers) may look more awesome than our Planet 4 Engineers but  i think its their Technology that will be needed to make them something to be Scared of.

There Appearance may look sort of Majestic but its not Fear Full, but just as Storm Troopers look more Bad Ass then the Rebel Troopers, then so it should be that Fully Suited Engineers could look the better part.

WHILE the Engineers may not look so Scary...  in Life Humans can be Scary depending on how Cruel/Evil they are and the Horrific Situations and Actions they carry out on Helpless other Humans...  So a Nasty, Horrific Agenda and Situations they Place Humans in could ADD to the FEAR Factor of the Engineers.

The other ASPECT is their Bio-Weapons... The Black Goo and Experiments means our Engineers could unleash a WHOLE Manner of Horrific Beasts onto their Enemies.

@ignorantGuy

Taking a story and rolling it back to a point and bringing it forward in fan fiction is not new. This usually is spurred on by the idea that two people don't get to go where they should with each other Tripp and T'pau in Enterprise is an example. However Prometheus is different because the natural momentum of the story was hijacked and thats a matter of record. That makes rolling it back and bringing it forward doubly fascinating. One can look at potential story development and I will take two examples and say what would you do instead.

1) The opening sequence the acolyte and tear drop ship

a) Alien Covenant - momentum killed.

b) Novel - a foundation block of the world building and crucial to the narrative chosen.

2) The Bio Mechanical nature of the Derelict in A L I E N. 

a) Prometheus not explored. 

b) Novel revisited crucial to the world building and a vital part of the narrative and a characters outcome.

There is then the more straight forward issue of consequences and ignoring there natural outcome.

David acting for Weyland Petri Dishes Charlie and Elizabeth. David is healed by Elizabeth and he "Loved her you know". Thats on the screen and you do not make drama out of that !!! 

Right back to work !

Indeed Dr Shaw could have been improved on, but the Biggest Problem with Alien Covenant apart from Characters, was there was just too much to cover in a limited Span of Time... if we had the Crossing Added to the Movie and also a few more Dr Shaw Scenes, it would have made the Movie TOO LONG for what FOX wanted.

The Need for a Shorter Runtime is what effected a lot of Alien Covenant.

On to the General Direction of the Prequels.

One Element was to show us or give us clues to HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph came to be, which could have involved having to Introduce us to the Xenomorph as Alien Covenant had done.  But once you have shown HOW/WHEN the Xenomorph came to be, its a case of HOW do you showcase the Beast.... because even if its done like in ALIEN/ALIEN 3 the Question is WHAT NEXT?  Another movie about the Xenomorph but then would going for a similar route to a Alien/Alien 3 work again for the 2nd time in a Row?  And if they went for a more Aliens/Alien Resurrection route... ONCE we have seen the Xenomorph a few more times, then its a Question of Can we keep showing it over and over?    And also IF we had a Direct Route where they showed either as in very solid Clues or a Direct Shooting of the Space Jockey Event, all we are doing is CONNECTING the Dots.

So what the Prequels set out to do was not so much the WHEN/WHERE but the WHY and so it was the WHY would someone Create/Make such a Horrific Organism... The Emphasis was thus pushed onto the Origins being related to something Created/Experimented on and to really tell us WHY was these Experiments conducted.

Which seemed to begin with it being something Created to be used to Wipe Clean Worlds of Failed Experiments and Rebellious or Deemed Unsuccessful Creation Projects,  possible also as Protection from FEAR of what Sentient Rebellious Out of Control Creations could pose.

PROMETHEUS arose from this, by deciding to Tone Down the Xenomorph and that we DONT have to see any, or indeed Spoon Feed the Derelict/Egg Cargo... But give us clues to that these were connected to Horrific Experiments that the Engineers had conducted with the BLACK GOO providing clues to help us understand their was a Connection but also being Ambiguous.  But the the MAIN Focus would be one WHY which was revealed that these Engineers/Space Jockey Race had created/evolved Mankind and got displeased with how we Turned out and so began to Experiment in Creating BIO-WARFARE to eradicate us which Lead to a HUGE HUBRIS for them.

Had they NOT created us, they would not have needed to Eradicate us, and so the LV-223 Outbreak would not have happened, and the Aftermath where Humans came to this place with the Syntehtic David who then ended up taking ONE of the Engineers Bio-Weapons and using it on their Home-world.

The Theme was thus about Creation and how in Hindsight Creating something that is very similar to yourself, which can gain Free-will and Independence can lead to Problems...      And in Context to this Theme, it followed through with DAVID which some just interpret as being about ROBOTS where the Actual Theme is about Sub-Creating something in your image that is then allowed/gains independence and sees its self as not being a Servant, and seeing itself as on Equal or Greater Footing as its Creator. 

This is a theme we are shown had happened between the Engineers and Mankind, and then Mankind and AI  and indeed its seen in the Greek Mythos of the Titans vs Olympians,  in the Sumerian,  Annunaki and Iggi and also in GOD vs Fallen Angels.

For some Fans this was interesting to explore out Engineers in this Context, but for some it was these THEMES that steered to Far from ALIEN and the Xenomorph..  The Human Characters are what made it WORK, but we could have replaced Xenomorph with Engineers, or Engineer Created Horrors or another THREAT but it needed Good Human Characters for sure.... which the Prequels Lacked.

These THEMES was something New and Fresh that Ridley Scott wished to explore where our Xenomorph was NOW just  Weapon Created for Destruction of Humans/Engineers.   And Ridley Scott Felt the WHY! Was the BIGGER thing to explore, which was discussed above in Context to Prometheus....  but the Curveball U-Turn that David Created was something Ridley Scott felt was more interesting because it HIGHLIGHTS that Hubris Theme more.... that you SHOULD NOT Sub-Create and if you do, you DONT create something so like Humans that can Think for Itself.  So this route becomes a Double Hubris on the Engineers Part who without creating Mankind, would not have David turn up and Bombard them and also then If Weyland had not created a AI that could become independent then there would be NO Xenomorph threat.

There are other Reasons for WHY too that was explored.

The Prequels tried to explore the TWO things David has not got..

*A Soul as in a Spirit that Lives on Once a Body Dies... but who is to say WE have such a Soul?  A AI that can Save/Upload its Memories, Experiences and Emotions and then this lives on in a Computer System/Network or is Uploaded to a NEW Body would MAKE AI actually have a Soul so to Speak.

*The Ability to Create Life...  which David and Dr Shaw lacked, but the Black Goo Provided Dr Shaw a way to CREATE but just not in the Traditional Sense.    IF David could Create his OWN Life then it would be another thing he LACKED that Humans dont that he NOW has.

My interpretations was also about Legacy, as the Ozymandias Poem touches on.      WHEN we Die what is left behind?

If there is NO Soul/After Life, then it is the Deeds, what we have created/accomplished that Immortalize us.  Be these by various Art Forms, be it Music, Art or what ever.   Our Deeds can Immortalize us, Political/Military High Ranked Figures and Royalty can live on because they are FAMOUS and have Statues etc Built in their Memory/Honor.

The other way you can LIVE ON is via your Memories/Stories passed on by Generations and your CHILDREN, i think we can see these themes explored in the Engineers and their Monuments, and also Mankind and indeed Weylands Achievements his Works/Deeds that make his Name Remembered...  But all of these are not TRULY Immortalized as over TIME Races Die Out, their Achievements Forgotten with NO ONE to pass them on and only Monuments remaining that in Time Fade to Dust.

Hence the Ozymandias reference.....  this applies to Mankind and Engineers, but DAVID is somewhat different as he is NOT Flesh and Blood. So he could be seen as a EVOLUTION of Intelligent Life but for many he comes across as just a ROBOT.

So David is shown to want to Create not only as a way to Eradicate Humanity and Engineers which he sees as in-superior and flawed, but to also Create a Perfect Life-Form of his own as his OWN Legacy and then Unleash his Works on those who created him.

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

But these Themes do seem to distract away from the ALIEN Franchise a bit to much for some, and with Poor Character use, and No Engineers it did make a movie about DAVID too much and it could be RS plans are to explore the Larger Role of AI in the Franchise and also the Creation/Creator Subplot where the Engineers could be introduced back.

But for MANY these are just a route that is not connected to the ALIEN Franchise enough..... This is thanks to the pressure on RS to introduce the Xenomorph and make a Direct Prequel series... as PROMETHEUS was intended to offer a different direction that steers away from ALIEN

Once Again Thoughts_Dreams you bring up Characters, which when they are as you said, relatable so we can engage with their situation.  And how well these are executed and plans DO make a BIG difference.

"I am not even sure if the movie is about the Xeno, to me it is about humans that get into situations that they are not prepared for and bad things happen."

"Replace Luke with relatable human characters in Alien and the Wampa with the Xeno or other related monsters and you have the same thing in two different movies that have things in common, you see?"

Everyone has their OWN opinions on that subject, but if you Questioned a 100 Random People about the Franchise it is the ALIEN and Ripley they stick out as the movie being about them.  But your points are BANG on the Money as far as HOW supporting Human Characters are used and situations they are faced in were we can FEEL their sense of Jeopardy.

While the Franchise was about the Xenomorph and Ripley, without the supporting Cast and the Plot/Situations they was Placed in and how WELL this was executed from Alien => Alien 3 are the Main reasons these  movies Worked, where Alien Resurrection and the Prequels kind of NEVER.   The Skywalker and Womba comment is very fitting as indeed you can Swap Out Main Character and Monster and its if the Scene has that Sense of Realism and Plight that the viewer can Relate too then it makes the Fear/Predicament Work rather than being a Dumb Monster Movie.

The Xenomorph has been done to death, as far as we all KNOW what it looks like, what it CAN do and all we dont know was WHERE did this Beast Come From......

Alien Covenant it did seem Forced and Rushed, and i feel the Xenomorph can still be made Scary by Virtue of the way it is used in a limited role as far as HOW it was used in Alien and Alien 3, then yes it would still work if the Scenes are Well Written, Well Shot and the BIG thing would be as you say... we need to CONNECT with the Characters who will be in Jeopardy vs the Monster...  If we see the Xenomorph show as we have in the AVP Movies, Aliens and Alien Resurrection then i think it really has lost that Scare Factor when used like that.

@ignorantGuy

As I wrote that remark I was aware that I was using Peter Weyland's perceptions of the difference between himself and David. It was short hand to deal with what did Michael tell us about David in Prometheus that David wanted to create ...nothing. The long form version is that there is no physical immortality within the Prometheus world building. Immortality resides only with the soul. 

One way, my way, of world building Prometheus from roots that were put down in the Prometheus movie phase are :-

1) Mankind is short lived. There is a reason for this which is tied up with their origins and the nature of their beginning.  

2) The Engineers or what Elizabeth calls them, are long lived very long lived but as they say to the acolyte :-

"Let your body become the dirt, your blood become the waters and may your soul become the way back to us." A recognition that beyond physical incarnation there is an immortal soul. 

So Mankind and the "Engineers" share DNA and a belief system which encompasses an immortal soul. Should Elizabeth become aware of this she would take encouragement. 

Pietra Scalia indicated that the events of the planetoid represent Paradise Lost but it was a theme that they did not pursue or emphasise front of house. I have taken the liberty of assuming it was a consequence of Paradise Lost based on his remarks. So if the planetoid represents Paradise Lost what would Paradise look like and how would an "Engineer" who has not fallen look like. Furthermore as Elizabeth said to Charlie the evening before they made love if they made us who made them. 

So David and Elizabeth have a number of things to discover. 

a) Guardian Engineers who have not fallen unless every single one of the species has fallen.

b) Who made the "Engineers."

c) As this is a constructed world (terraforming, seeding) all things eventually to use your phrase wear out. The Engineers world will eventually end it is the nature of the universe.

d) Are the Engineers and Elizabeth correct that we have an immortal soul and of course in such a search David would "join in" and pursue the same journey and as he is mechanical construct rather than a biological construct would a way appear which lead him to a level playing field with the Engineers and Elizabeth. 

I repeat to bring this back to the thread these fascinating themes which Prometheus kickstarted have been set aside in favour of "David and the Xenomorphs'.

I to am re looking at Lawrence very closely. I can tell you that before cryo sleep Elizabeth watched the movie knowing that David is using it as a template to find his emotional narrative so she can better understand him. Wadi Rum is of course the site of the filming of scenes for both Lawrence of Arabia and Prometheus  and includes a rock formation known as the "Seven Pillars of Wisdom".  Seven is a very important number in the Book of Revelations it is the number of the Seven Spirits of God. In a constructed world pillars of wisdom would be useful. 

Taking ones steer from Prometheus its materials and sources and dusting them off is fascinating and rich with possibility.   

Duplicate Post

@Michelle Johnston good to hearing from you, but I don't agree 100% with you about D's immortality. He does not age, but his components will probably wear down in time or can be damaged beyond self repair (as in Prom). His immortality is dependent on mortals (that's also a big irony is there is one), and the xenomorphs can not help with that.

Have also watched Lawrence of Arabia recently, to see the inspiration source?

@BigDave

The last time we exchanged I was sharing some thoughts about writing a novel which would pick up the threads of Prometheus. I had intended to begin much later in the year but I have now been writing for about four weeks and the word count is over 26,000 which is about 110 to 130 pages. I have begun the third act so some way to go. I say all of that because clearly a good deal of energy and passion is going into to this. One point is I am very anxious for the foundation markers of the characters that appear in Prometheus to be honoured in the novel. 

Today I was reviewing a section of the novel and went back to the source material which was really helpful because it reminded me of the way the characters work off each other and I made some adjustments and deepened the interaction to reflect that Prometheus foot print, but it lead into a scene with David. Watching Michael in one scene I was struck how I was even more right about my view of David and where it might lead after Prometheus than I thought.  

However and this is the point of posting on your thread. The key building blocks of Davids character as portrayed in Prometheus do not lead to his behaviour in ALIEN COVENANT or to put it another way there is nothing in Michaels performance in Prometheus that hints at the key theme of Alien Covenant that David was engineered to create.The key theme of David in Prometheus is something altogether different and it is made crystal clear in "The Crossing" it is his treatment by mankind and Weyland and how he receives it. This is vital in understanding that David has feelings and rather unsophisticated and undeveloped ones. He hero worships Lawrence and copies him. He is a peeping Tom with Elizabeths dreams. He suffers robot apartheid at the hands of Charlie.

In summary at the point where he has an exchange with Elizabeth over their coms systems when he is about to expire he  :-

1) Has a low opinion of mankind based on his treatment by them.

2) He knows the creators of mankind are mortal after all. 

3) He recognises that he and Elizabeth have a potentially co dependent relationship which can form the foundation of them returning to Earth in a Juggernaut.

Elizabeth the ultimate survivor has no wish to return to Earth and asks David if he can take a Juggernaut to the Engineers Home world. He agrees but does not see the point of pursuing the Engineers for her answers, the answers do not matter. However he recognises his limitations as to why this might be important to Elizabeth and in his key role as enabler he agrees to do so and she heals him. In the same way he feels hatred because of his treatment by Weyland and others he feels warmth and care for Elizabeth who has shown a very real kindness to him and trusted him with her welfare.

That she would travel with a deadly payload of Mutagen given her new found toughness is highly unlikely and that David would use the Mutagen which behaved like a Pathogen to poison a world and leave it barren without even considering Elizabeth is ......... Also there is the rather small point that he is immortal and therefore it is counter intuitive that he would wish to create. Immortality may lead to a desire to order and control but what David the immortal would be seeking is to fully understand how to articulate his emotions now that he has felt both good and bad emotions and the one thing he wishes to aspire to which Elizabeth believes in is an eternal soul. To begin with this would come from his other key driver curiosity but as David is an emotional being it is inevitable that would lead to a quest for a spiritual meaning. To put it the other way round we have established David has feelings those cannot be ring fenced against considering the spiritual side of his personality. The combination of his brillaint intellect and his emotional landscaping means he has to at least consider it and of course he is in the right environment to do it terms of the narrative and the Prometheus world building. 

How might he achieve that. Well it does not involve denture chops or as Ridley put it dragons and all that .....