Comments (Page 353)

I think what i am saying is if we look at the themes behind Apartheid  i think the Prequels have shown this kind of thing between Humans and Synthetics and you can bet similar would happen more so in the Franchise as a whole... in FACT once AI really evolves in Real Life like we see in the movies there is the great potential for such a Apartheid  between Humans and Artificial intelligence/Life that has Evolved to have Feelings and Emotions...

Blade Runner was a real Apartheid kind of movie as far as Humans vs Non-Human Replicants... and i think RS has tried to highlight this with the Alien Franchise and so YES i think a Apartheid theme really would have played out in the Future of Earth within the Alien Franchise on more than ONE Level.. (Humans, Synthetics and Autons)

I am always skeptical of Novels as Canon and i admit i have only read part of ONE Expanded Universe Novel.

It does appear the Auriga was heading towards Africa.... i will have to watch AR again but it does not hold the replay value of the other movies...  Prometheus, Alien, Alien 3, Aliens seem to be what i watch over and over more... Alien Covenant, AVP and Alien Resurrection not so much but i think i will watch Alien Covenant a 5th time latter. As for AVPR i watched it twice.... once fully the first time i could not get into it and i cant see it worth a 3rd viewing lol

But back the point about Call being a Terrorist i think it fits well, because if we look at AI Evolving to be so advanced like Ash/David or a Call or the Replicants.... where they see themselves as more than a Machine , surely we can see a uprising by these Synthetics/AI just as we have seen in some Countries where Ethic Minorities have had uprisings and riots for Equal Rights.

With AI/Robots it would be more harsh as they are NOT Human, and so Humanity would see any AI/Robots that up-rise as Terrorists

I think this is interesting News for Fans.... no matter how Popcorn a Mass Aliens vs Marines Flick would be, the Gaming World it does offer something interesting... As a Game it works better.

I can imagine that Alien Isolation in VR for someone to play it the first time ever would be truly Frightening.  ;)

@BigDave

The "Sea of Sorrows" takes place after A:R.  

SPOILER ALERT!!!!! SPOILER ALERT!!! FOR "SEA OF SORROWS" NOVEL!!!!!!  DO NOT READ BELOW IF YOU INTEND ON READING "SEA SORROWS"!!!!!!!!

Apparently Weyland-Yutani is still around after A:R.  In A:R, we're told and left to assume that Weyland-Yutani was "bought out by Wal-Mart", to quite the scientist Dr. Wren. In "Sea of Sorrows", W-Y is apparently still around and still looking for that Xeno.  Apparently W-Y is still very powerful.  Well, at the end of "Sea of Sorrows", Weyland-Yutani has a live, fully grown alien in there possession and has two people in cryosleep who have facehuggers on their face.  And guess what... One of them is implied to be a queen because the facehugger is more elaborate and looks much different than the other facehugger.

SORRY FOR THE SPOILERS ABOVE TO ANYONE THAT IS UPSET... 

BigDave said, "...i am not sure if the Books (apart from the AC Origins one) can be considered 100% Canon."

I agree with that statement, yet the stories apparently work with the movies.  So, it may be put upon the reader to decide.  

Still, FOX did help make these books.

My decision is to take ideas from the books to help explain things in the movies.  A part from explaining things, the books are just there for fun and are not canon.

I did just watch A:R last night and I was left wondering where the Auriga crashed into.  It was a brief scene, but it appears to crash into a Earth landmass.  Still, it was close to the ocean.  It wasn't right on the beach, but it was close to the ocean.  I didn't recognize the landmass either.  I don't think it crashed near Paris, unless the image we got in A:R of the ship crashing was actually the ship flying upside down so the globe would be upside down which then could mean that maybe the ship crashed near enough to Paris to annihilate it as we see in A:R at the end.  Still, the land mass didn't look like France to me either.  Still, I doubt the Betty would land in the place where the Auriga crashed into.  It wouldn't be a very safe place and wouldn't have been anywhere near a good decision.  Plus, Ripley and Call are both saying "Well, this is Earth."  So, I would think that they wouldn't call destroyed Paris as the typical place on Earth like they were acting.  Still, both of them said that they have never been to Earth.

I like the idea of a terrorist attack.  I guess that could be why the scientist, Dr. Wren, was so upset with catching Call accessing a restricting area.  He called Call a terrorist and treated the matter very seriously.  

The terrorist attack in "Sea of Sorrows" was a research spaceship kind of like the Auriga.  I'm just left a little uncertain to whether Paris's terrorist attack was actually the research ship Auriga or if it was another ship like the Auriga which would be why Dr. Wren was so hard on the Betty crew because he thought Call was a terrorist.  Still, I don't know why the Betty would land in Paris right after their ship crashed there?  It wouldn't be a very safe landing spot to get out and enjoy the everydayness of Earth.

According to http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/USM_Auriga 

"The Auriga ultimately ploughed into an uninhabited region of Africa, completely destroying the ship and everything on board and causing an estimated $300 trillion worth of damage."

I intended a post at Easter but i have had some problems and could not start/finish it so i will be doing so hopefully on Alien Day... where i will propose something more at the Top of the Hierarchy that will bring something more ALIEN and very connected to the Alien Poster and the Prometheus Mural but as far as the Door/Mural Frame and top of the Mural only.

Something that would well be used to explain a higher power behind the WHOLE Creation Elements...  Which would tackle some of these Ridley Scott or was it Spaights or Lindeloff?    Anyway they said that "they are off to the Planet of the Engineers, but the beings they discover are not Gods, not in the traditional sense, they are far from Benevolent..... but DAVID is bringing Hell with him... what happens if a GOD or Machine get infected"

Ridley Scott had said prior to Alien Covenant..  "You’ve got to go back and find those engineers and see what they are thinking. If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where's the big boy?"

Ridley Scott also proposed about the Big Bang, was it purely a Accident? he then claimed that Steven Hawkings seemed to think not!

So i have had this idea for quite a while now that will introduce the Larger Cog at work in the grand Wheel of the Universe...

I think a number of disappointments with Prometheus and Alien Covenant more so, was the Portrayal of the Engineers as the Space Jockey Race.

Some fans felt it was a Skeleton and some Elephantine Race.... and while YES in Starbeast the Giant Race whos Skeletal remains were discovered by the Humans coming to investigate this Giant Races Beacon...  We have to remember when HR Giger came in to design the Space Jockey it clearly was not completely a Skeleton.

This was the Concept and indeed we can see it appears to be more a Bio-Mechanical Exo-Skeletol being.... or a Suit, rather than a Skeleton.

Another Problem was the Size, the Space Jockey was intended to be 27" Tall/Long, but the Actual Prop was 16-17" Long (including the Chair) which meant the Actual Space Jockey would be 13-15" Tall... which is the Height the Prequel Drafts intended for our Engineers.

But anyone can see the Space Jockey looks a bit different to the Engineers Suits, the Derelict looking more Organic than the Juggernaught and also the Engineers certainly are not near 13-15ft Tall.

So there is scope to introduce another Race that are Taller and their Ships are more Aesthetically like the Derelict.  And so a Race that are 13-15ft Tall and more Alien Looking but still have the Space Jockey as a Space Suit.

@Critters5

I think now the Xenomorph has been reduced to a Bio-Weapon Creation by the hands of David the Android using the Engineers Biological Warfare (Black Goo) then along with our more Ancient Humanoid looking Engineers....  I do FEEL that they need to introduce us to something more ALIEN

There are Questions that remain regarding....

1) What happened on LV-223 what was the Purpose as far as the Fresco's and Murals and how they relate to the Black-Goo and Xenomorph.

2) When/where and how did the Engineers Bio-Mechanical Technology come about, was it their Creation, was they given it by another Race for some Purpose or was it Stolen/Re-Engineered by the Engineers.

I think exploring the Answers to these, but giving us something more ALIEN and fitting in tone with what the Space Jockey/Derelict and Egg Cargo showed us is the way to go FORWARDS.

And introducing a Sinister Agenda.... or a Intelligent yet far more Alien Species than the Engineers is the way to go too.

@ignorantGuy

I cant really speak much for what amount of the HR Giger Aesthetic is/was owned/licensed to FOX i know every Alien Movie that uses the Xenomorph would Credit HR Giger for the Design, i cant speak for how long any License Agreement would have been for and IF/HOW MUCH HR Giger (and now his Estate) would have been paid to use the Designs.  It has been reported that the Estate had a disagreement over the use of some of HR Gigers Designs/Intellectual Property.  We dont know if FOX had chosen to tone down any Giger Aesthetics to avoid/reduce any Royalties paid to the HR Giger Estate but it appeared some disagreement or lack of a agreement was made.

We have heard that the Concept Artist were told to indeed go for that very HR Giger Feel/Aesthetic but then latter told to Avoid/Tone Down such a Aesthetic.

Does this mean we CAN/WILL-NOT see any Surreal HR Giger Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic in future?

I dont think this would be a major case, because i cant see any Bio-Mechanical Designs being exclusively OWNED by the Estate, i think it would be only if Designs are used that are TOO similar to any HR Giger Works that he has done....

I also think as FOX (now owned by Disney) owned the Alien Franchise, that the Xenomorph, Space Jockey and Derelict Atheistic and Designs would be something that the HR Giger Estate would  NOT be able to REJECT so that we Can-not see them used again.  I would think some Deal would have been made where anything from ALIEN can be used, but maybe there is a set Fee/% that would have to be paid to the HR Giger Estate.... 

Maybe the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant was toned down as far as to appear less Mechanical and the Juggernauts to appear less Organic as a way of avoiding or reducing the amount of money to be paid to the HR Giger Estate.  But i cant be in any way sure how all this actually works.

But there have been other movies and designs/games and artwork that has a very much HR Giger feel to its Aesthetic that these designers DO-NOT have to pay up to the HR Giger Estate...  But then maybe as these are not used in a ALIEN Franchise movie or game there is that get-around for it.

So i think we could see a Bio-Mechanical Atheistic in future without having to deal with the HR Giger Estate provided they go about the design in a very clever way to skip around actual identical designs used by HR Giger in any of his works.

I think it would be more Beneficial to enter a agreement with the Estate to use what ever ideas/designs HR Giger had made however...  I think and HOPE we can get back to something more Bio-Mechanical.

The Big Question ignorantGuy is have we seen the last of the Bio-Mechanical Atheistic?    i feel not if we are going to see Returning Engineer Ships and if the next movie or its sequel would eventually tie into ALIEN and the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph and Derelict.  If these are the things they intend to show then they would have to bring in the HR Giger Atheistic..  would that mean any kind of deal with the HR Giger Estate? who knows.. if it requires such then i would expect Disney/FOX to have to do so in order to connect us back to ALIEN

I think I'm just going to go for the dessert.

Yea for me its just such blown potential. The Starbeast idea and an expanded Engineer lore (with non-humanoid Engineers) would have been exactly what I wanted. Even if we only got pieces of the Xenomorph. David is so overdone and so boring. 

Bigdave, I find the intelligent but ferral alien species to be so original and fascinating. What you described above would have made for SUCH a better Alien series than the mindless crap the majority of the Alien movies are. 

BigDave

Sorry, if Fox does not want to pay royalties to the Giger estate, we will have Giger free Alien movies as Covenant.

By " it is almost certain the Xenomorph had become something that he would not have shown"

I mean its likely had RS made the Alien Sequels then the Xenomorph would have been explored and evolved in a different manner to what it had became in Aliens and on-wards.

I think RS had larger plans for the Franchise... it is almost certain the Xenomorph had become something that he would not have shown, had he been able to release his own ALIEN Sequels prior to ALIENS.

He saw great scope with Prometheus to explore the Space Jockey Race more and maybe throw in some Starbeast Elements to what ever Plans he had as far as Prometheus Sequels had been concerned.

It appears FOX had made him change plans to appease Fans who wanted the Xenomorph Origin Answers, Wanted to see the Space Jockey Event down the Line and then also to introduce Xenomorphs in all their Stages into the Next Movie...

Where the Xenomorph Origin and WHY/HOW/WHEN would be explored more and Literally shown as far as Chronological after Prometheus 2094 and prior to Alien 2122 it appeared FOX Felt this is what Fans wanted.... Xenomorphs and how they came to be and how they are connected to the Black Goo... and maybe following Dr Shaw for her Answers and Exploring the Engineers was something that maybe Fans were not interested in?

But RS was a big fan of the Philosophy in Prometheus, especially the Creation/Sub Creation and Rebellion Themes and the Hubris involved, and he was also a Fan of DAVID from Prometheus who was the STAND-OUT Character/Aspect of Prometheus.

And so RS must have agreed to bring back the Aliens... but he wanted to maintain his DAVID Arc as a Central point to the Franchise, and it would appear any ideas of showing David wishing to play GOD and Create his Own Xenomorph like Monsters... had been Evolved to making David the Actual Creator of the Xenomorph itself.

I think Elements of the Starbeast Plot could be used...

To a degree a number of them had been carried over with Prometheus, the Temple Complex that held URNS the Murals/Frescos, the Altar and indeed the Trilobite does look a lot like the Chest Buster Stage in Starbeast as depicted in the Starbeast Mural Room Concept Art.

The mainly unused idea from Starbeast was that the Organism, was a Highly Intelligent/Sophisticated and Civilized Alien Race...  This Race (its Remnants/Spores)  was discovered by the Giant Alien Race who attempted to take some Spores to their Ship... in essence the Space Jockey had attempted to take the Eggs/Spores of this Alien Starbeast.

We have seen this element hinted at with Alien: Engineers  as this Plot seemed to show us the Engineers had discovered a Cave with Spores and these Produced similar Organisms to the Starbeast... and its indicated the Engineers likely Experimented on these Octopoid Organisms to Create a Variety of Organisms related to and including the Xenomorph.

So i CANT see how we can use the Starbeast Idea of a Intelligent Alien Xenomorph...  but they could show us the Xenomorph Origins/Black Goo came from some other ALIEN Species they had discovered that were actually quite Advanced compared to the Xenomorphs in the Franchise. This Starbeast could be what the Prometheus Fresco was showing?  That could be explored for sure.

The other aspect from Starbeast was these Civilized Alien Organisms had used certain types of Organisms as Ritual Hosts to Procreate their Kind.   NOW Hr Gigers concepts show the Derelict/Xenomorph share DNA and Atheistic in his Mural...  This Mural indicates the Ships produce the Eggs and a Humanoid Space Suited Bald Headed Alien Race Ritually Sacrifice themselves to Procreate the Xenomorph.

So these Bald Humanoids (shown in HR Gigers Face Hugger Concepts, and the Prometheus Mural)  are either a Slave Race encountered ans enslaved to Procreate the Xenomorph, or they are Created by another Alien Race to Procreate the Xenomorph.   The other alternative is some kind of Symbiotic Relationship between the Bald Humanoids and the Derelict Ship/Xenomorph 

In either case, we could explore another more ALIEN Race that is more HR Giger Aesthetic that discovered or created these Humanoids (Engineers) and used them for some purpose to Procreate something related to the Xenomorph...

We could then explore the Engineers Rebelling against this Purpose and Race, and then they eventually Re-Engineer this Races Technology to make their own Bio-Mechanical Ships etc....

We could even be shown the Engineers created Mankind to replace them as Sacrificial Hosts, or the beings who used the Engineers for this Purpose created Mankind to replace the Rebellious Engineers.

This could lead to us being shown the Engineers overthrown their Creators/Beings that Subjugated the Engineers and then proceeded to use Mankind and Subjugated us..

THIS ^^^ Whole Idea was how i was going to explore the Engineer Hierarchy in my Planned Prometheus 2/3 and it would have touched on the Creation/Rebellion Themes and the God Themes... particularly the Annunaki/Sumerian Mythos while also giving it a HR Giger Twist by using his ideas merged with those from the Lovecraftian  Mythos

Totally makes sense I MOON GIRL i am not sure if the Books (apart from the AC Origins one) can be considered 100% Canon.  But AR does paint us a picture.

EARTH: is in some really bad way, it looks like some kind of Post War Apocalypse (could be multiple Terror Attacks) and from AR it would appear the only Xenomorph Remnants  are what was happening on the USM Auriga and so any sequel would have to Re-Introduce the Xenomorph, which could mean this happens via some Surviving Xenomorph Remnants  from the USM Auriga

What AR has also shown us is that its likely Synthetics Started to take over and dominate the World, it certainly shows us that Synthetics Sub-Create their own Synthetics the Autons... and  indeed conflict between Synthetics and Autons had occurred... 

Call is shown to belong to a Cult, and a Cult of Synthetic Autons with some Religious Beliefs.  And so this kind of does TIE in with the Philosophical and Creation Themes of Prometheus. 

So its likely the Earth has had some inner conflicts/wars between Humans and Synthetics and Autons.....  we could then ASSUME a reason for the USM Company to wish to acquire the Xenomorph or even Hybrids like Ripley 8... because they maybe could use these as Bio-Weapons to allow the Company/Mankind to Reclaim the Earth.

OF-COURSE A BIG PROBLEM...

With any Sequel would now be the Age of Miss Weaver... do we ASSUME Ripley 8 can Regenerate indefinitely?  And so would a Ripley 8 Clone with the Regenerative Ability actually AGE? Also Call as a Synthetic being would she AGE too?

Which is why i had the idea of a way around the Age, via having Ripley 8 start to Evolve and take on more Xenomorph DNA.

The other SCENARIO i would explore would be that Call takes Ripley 8 to a place where they can try and MAKE HER Human Again (The Problem here is would Ripley 8 want to be Human and loose those Abilities the Xenomorph DNA has given her?)  So they experiment with her and conduct a procedure to remove Xenomorph DNA so that Ripley 8 becomes nearly 100% Human.

But after this Procedure Ripley 8 instead begins to AGE Rabidly and SHE finds out the AUTON Cult has not eradicated the Xenomorph DNA, not as far as to be RID of it... but they have removed the Xenomorph DNA and attempt to use it to Create Bio-Weapons to allow the Autons to Rule Earth and then the Cosmos.

Ripley 8 now aging fast knows she has days to live or weeks and she decides its her Dying Duty to Prevent the Autons from Unleashing the Xenomorph/DNA upon the Earth.

I feel this Plot.... or the Ripley 8 turning into a more Xenomorph Hybrid would be the ideal solution to a TRUE Alien 5 movie if they wish to still involved RIPLEY in the Story.

Bigdave, its incredible how much better the Starbeast plot was. Think there is any chance in hell of elements of that returning? Great comment as usual. 

After they do a finaly prequel film I think they should go with an Alien Isolation plot and take the story somewhere different in the future with new species like the Engineers just more non-human. 

Personally, I just think RS is senile at this point and doesn't really know what he is saying or doing...

I bet some cheese make from Synth blood would also go well with the Xeno meat.

I want to add the according to Alien: Sea of Sorrows...

France was attacked by terrorists who drove a massive research space ship into France.  Sea of Sorrows takes place after A:R.  They don't give a date of the terrorist attack, but I think it's safe to assume it happened before Ripley and Call arrive on Earth in A:R. 

In A:R, Ripley and Call are obviously in France in the last scene because we see the Eiffel Tower.  So, I don't know of any proof that Earth is destroyed.  We get a lot of info on the conditions of Earth in the Alien: Covenant ORIGINS novel.  To sum it up, human pollution is decaying the Earth.  There really is no hope to save it either, so they formed the Covenant colony mission.  Earth wont die in a matter of years though.  We really don't get a time frame when Earth will become inhabitable.

In A:R, apparently Earth is habitable since Call and Ripley can easily breath the air without suits.  They're just in Paris, France, so Earth looks like a wasteland.  Still, it looks like that because of a terrorist attack.

Of course, that's if you believe the "Out of the Shadows" series is canon.  I am not just jumping on that mind-set just yet, but I am pulling info from those books to understand little things in the franchise.  They're not bad books.  The first one, "Out of the Shadows" does seem to really drag out the character Ripley, but it works.  I haven't read "River of Pain" yet, but I'm buying it very soon.

To answer the thread...

I would say we get to follow Ripley actually LIVING on Earth.  We can get some real great info on the conditions of Earth after the ORIGINS novel too.  Then, maybe, somehow, the Xeno actually GETS ON EARTH and it is obviously the clone Ripley (who is part Xeno herself now) who takes on the call for leadership to destroy the Xeno's once again.  She then confronts Call and gets her in on the action of killing the Xeno's.  Ripley would look much older, so the age thing with Weaver wouldn't be a problem.  The same could go for Call.  Basically, the movie starts with Ripley's everyday life on Earth that she has apparently been living for, maybe, 15 or 20 years?

 "I do still think as RS said there is only so much Chest Busting and Snarling you can do before you have to try something new..."

I agree.  Or at least give the fans a break.  Finish the PREQUELS and THEN go back to the standard Alien movie.  Sadly, the prequels broke this in Alien: Covenant.  Still, it's not over till it's over.

Nice stuff Dark Nebula!

Still, even if we don't actually see a Xenomorph in the whole movie doesn't mean it doesn't have to be about the Xenomorph.  The whole prequels are about who the Giants are (which are Engineers).  Plus, Ridley wants to explore the ORIGINS of the Xeno.  These are a great base for some great stories of a great franchise.  Still, with those points in mind and with the idea that these are PREQUELS, I think these prequel movies don't have to actually SHOW a Xenomorph.

I WANT MORE ENGINEERS!!!!!  I guess there should also be some quick Xeno sculptures or something.  Even a Xeno egg can visually tie the franchise to the original quadrilogy.

All this Xeno talk, I feel, is just weighing down the franchise.  Save the Xeno's for Alien 5 - Alien ∞.  I really appreciate what Ridley Scott is doing to the franchise, especially with Prometheus.  He's opening the franchise up to so much more than the Xeno.  There's plenty of room for a second quadrilogy that takes place maybe for another alien race that we have no idea exists?  It's kind of resemble of the "Out of the Shadow" series.

Maybe Blomkamp should make Alien 5?  I would love a grand finale for Weaver in an Alien 5 that DOESN'T remove Alien3 and A:R from the series.  Alien 5 wouldn't be such a bad idea.  I mean, if we just keep reusing the Xeno, like BigDave has said in other threads, the Xeno just becomes a Jason or Michael Myers.  Ridley Scott is keeping this franchise alive with fresh ideas.  Prometheus was a home run.  It wasn't a grand slam, but it definitely scored in my book.

Soak it in a basic brine to neutralize the acid. Either way it would likely be nasty. However, Tapatio or Tabasco can work some magic.

I can understand about asking what makes a Franchise Great?

Imagine a New Back to the Future Franchise.... would it work with NO Marty or NO Doc Brown?  Would it work with them in it but replace the DMC DeLorean with what a Time Traveling Toilet lol or a other Object rather than a CAR?

Thankfully the Alien Franchise has more scope than that.... take out Ripley and Queens and you still having something else to play with, take out the Xenomorph and it appears to be a different matter. The Xenomorph to Alien was what the DeLorean would be to any future Back to the Future movies.  You could replace the Delorean with another Model of CAR but the concept has to stay similar (Gadgetry that transformed a DeLorean DMC into the Time Machine). 

THIS is where the Alien Franchise had entered a Problem prior to the Prequels...  The Prequels opened up to explore the Space Jockey and Derelict with the Xenomorph maybe being a side note... that played a bigger Role at first but toned down with the Rewrites (Prometheus)

Prometheus laid so much Scope and Groundwork, that Alien Covenant had undone... the Mystery of the Engineers had been just as swiftly if not more undone than the Mystery around Snoke in the new Star Wars Movies.

Again EP 8 came out of complaints regarding EP 7. just as Alien Covenant arose from the complaints about Prometheus...

Maybe sometimes GOOD IDEAS should be put before, the general and majority Fan Reaction..

I like  REALLY HOT Food.....  Vindaloo's ha ha not even CLOSE and 9/10 Indian places that do a Phall have not effect on me ;)

But i have never destroyed a Toilet like that image... so i will pass on the Xenomorph Meat ;)   I draw the line at a Tablespoon (Tea Spoon is plenty) of 600-800'000 Scovile Sauce.... but i bet Xenomorph Meat would take that BURN to a whole NEW Level.

I think the Big Problem is ANY movie set in the ALIEN universe will by most be associated with Alien and Aliens, deviate too far from the Xenomorph while remaining within the Franchise  will Alienate (Pun intended) some of the Core Fanbase, while also making a Franchise confusing to those who are not really into the Franchise but then either Can-not make any connections... or feel the Prequels have NOTHING to do with the Original Franchise.

I would say 80% of the Public who go to the Cinema 2-3 times a year WOULD Recognize the Xenomorph.. to some degree....  i would say the same % would NOT KNOW about the Space Jockey, the Derelict... never-mind showing them the Engineers.

The Alien Franchise WILL ALWAYS be associated with Eggs, Face Huggers, Chest Busters, Xenomorphs and Queens... but also RIPLEY and not so much the Derelict and its Pilot... which is WHAT RS felt was more interesting.

Prometheus could have been a interesting Stand Alone Movie... if the Weyland Company was replaced with a different one, the Engineers and suits and ships had NOTHING to do Aesthetically  with the Space Jockey and Derelict.  It could have spawned some decent Sequels..

But alas as it was set in the ALIEN Universe but was not ALIEN enough, it bugged some fans and so we got the more Alieny Alien Covenant instead that does not use the Xenomorph well, lacked the Alien Horror, the Aliens Action... and threw the Engineers out and only continued with David/Weyland Arc as far as Philosophy was concerned.

Now the Beast is even more Cooked, and people are sour on the whole David Arc... and they have Written themselves into a Corner... its going to take something Special to pull off another 1-2 Movies that can get the Franchise back on Track.

I think i summed up what has GONE wrong and against the Xenomorph in the Alien Franchise HERE

We do get the odd moments of RARE Original Ideas. but more Rarely do any sequels do any justice and just degrade the Originals....  I can loose count of the Movies that where some what interesting that the Sequels did not good with, and especially once we get to the 3RD movie never mind more and even Prequels and Reboots often CAN-NOT better the Original or save a Franchise that has churned out 2-3 sequels.

I could mention the Robocop Franchise, Terminator... you name it but once we enter the 3rd Movie it goes Pear Shaped.... but the Alien Franchise has not done so bad....  i would say Alien Resurrection and the AVP movies it went Pear Shapped.... Prometheus tried something else and was not so bad... Alien Covenant tried to go back to the Xenomorph with not so good results.

You get those ONE OFF Movies, you get those ONE OFF Franchises.. i think Star Wars was GREAT... the Prequels So/So but EP 7-9... well NO COMMENT!  But they did well with the New Generations and introduced a NEW more Popcorn Marvel/Harry Potter kind of take on the Star Wars Saga...

Could this be whats needed now?  a NEW Aliens for the New Generation? but would it work?  Because Robocops Reboot was meant to Re-introduce us to the Franchise as far as Nostalgia and to get a NEW Generation interested... but it failed... despite in My opinion being better than The Robocop Sequels.

Sometimes you DO come across something MAGICAL and we have to ask is it better to leave it ALONE?

Take E.T what a MOVIE!!!! but if we ended up with ET 2, ET 3 then really what more could they do with a ET 4 or ET the Prequel or ET Reboot? 

Chances are you will NEVER live up the Original and instead Tarnish it.

So the beast has been cooked so to speak, but the Franchise had expanded beyond the Xenomorph... Prometheus opened that up.... but then Alien Covenant seemed to close that off..

The Question now is are people willing to see more about David and Less Xenomorph or can they give us more Xenomorph and bring the beast back in a different light or make it as AWE inspiring as ALIEN?

What about the Humanoid Engineers can they be rescued and brought back and made to be as AWE Inspiring as the Prometheus ones never mind the Space Jockey Scene in Alien!

So its very hard to do any of it justice..

RS was saying how iconic the Xenomorph WAS... i am sure he feels disappointed at how it is NOW seen compared to how it ONCE was and how he envisioned how it could have became.

Oh my... ;)

I would actually not mind a 10 page Synopsis of this ;)

Will check out your Topic Now Gavin...

I do still think as RS said there is only so much Chest Busting and Snarling you can do before you have to try something new...

Here's the DVD Version, I couldn't come up with a better plot synopsis.

You can already tell who's more screwed.

 I'm not sure what the article is saying.  RS can speculate as much as he wants.  I don't think he'll be steering the boat next time around.  I like both Prometheus and AC though they were not great.  I'm not looking forward to David going mad scientist mustang on the ~2000 colonists on Covenant.  We need fresh writers and a director or let's call it done before it gets worse.

Not sure what you're getting at about the "woman empowerment issue".  Yes, Alien broke the mold by putting a woman in the action star role.  Now we had new female characters in Prometheus and Covenant but they were hardly the same ass-kicking Ripley.  Both fought for their lives along with their male counterparts, and owed their survival to the android.  Its no more ridiculous than a male as the protagonist.

@ignorantguy,

I just checked YT, dear god you're right -shudder-

Gavin

like whom? your friend that mr and the letter after G and before I?

Well, what I've get from that article Sir Scott was talking about the first Alien movie and how the found Giger and his paintings and how they could not pass those on in the late 70s. He was not talking about now, so the beast is still cooked.

But for me that article has other problems, like talking about how much he likes history but his historical movies are not the most accurate things (turkeys in Spain before the discovery of the Americas, etc...). And there is the woman empowerment issue.... In Covenant if you want to you are determined to find out stuff you are killed off and replaced with someone who looks more like Ripley (says stuff that Riley said) and her motivation is to have a cozy cabin by the lake with her husband (thank the mad android for prevent such a life of boredom).

interestingly, I and others have inferred Scott's statements to be a 180-degree turn on his anti-alien stance, as I have just written up HERE.

Very Interesting Statement by Ridley Scott and it does add up to the kind of stance he was taking with Prometheus and his comments after Alien Covenant about being ahead of the game/curve so to speak (with Prometheus)

I think we need to understand the EVOLUTION of the Xenomorph, in order to understand Ridley Scotts's statements....  The Beginnings of ALIEN  came from Dan O'Bannon's STARBEAST were the Monster involved in this Story was similar it had a similar Life-Cycle to what the Xenomorph was intended to eventually have (The Alien DC Egg Morph) however the Plot differed in that the Egg Stage of this Monster was NOT discovered on the Derelict Alien Ship (The Humans discovered via a Beacon/Signal).   The Organism was discovered in a seperate Pyramid/Temple Complex that housed the Egg Stages of this Organism and was the Ritual Birthing Place (via Sacrificial Hosts) of this Species.

The Alien Species are shown to be Civilized, and its indicated they had built this Pyramid as a Incubation/Nursery for their Young to be Born and Grow.  The Alien Species Long Gone and all that remained was the End/Beginning Stages of their Life-Cycle the Eggs/Spores.

So the ALIEN MONSTER was supposed to be a Intelligent Species a Civilized Species, but its Young would Grow to become Feral and Aggressive without Nurturing by the Developed Adults. 

By the time we got to ALIEN we had HR Giger's Necronom IV and V be used as the basis for the Creature Design, giving us something Unique and Surreal but also something kind of seductive to its Aesthetic, it appeared to be both Horrific but also something very Feminine and Attractive to its Design.  While a Number of things had happened as far as Changes between Starbeast and Alien as far as the Plot and Set Locations... It appeared Ridley Scott wanted to explore the Xenomorph's Intelligence, so as to kind of connect to the Creature being more than just a Killing Machine...  And by this he wanted to have the Xenomorph Kill Ripley and then Impersonate her Voice to Lure in more Hosts.

So we can see the Concept appeared to be more than a Beast that goes around Killing People, but without any upbringing by its Species, the Creature was at first a Predatory Killing Machine, but had the instincts to go and Procreate its Species, and then Evolve Intellectually.  But with the Ripley Death/Impersonating idea dropped and the Egg Morph Scene Cut, what we had was a Alien Monster that went around killing the Crew ONE BY ONE like some kind of Alien Space Jason Voorhees.   This shows just how much the Outlook/Interpretation of a Movie can be affected by the removal/edit of a few Scenes. (as we see with Prometheus also).

AFTER ALIEN.....

In came James Cameron, wanting to continue the Story with a Sequel, where Cameron gave us the idea that those EGGS had to be Laid by a Queen....  James Camerons Aliens was a Action Orientated Movie and still to this day has to be one of the BEST if not the BEST Sci-Fi Popcorn Action Flick there is.. Its like the Rolls Royce of say Star Ship Troopers Popcorn Flicks.

It reduced the Roll of the Xenomorph as being nothing more than a Herd/Hive of Deadly Alien Killing Machines, intent on Procreating its Species like some kind of More Advanced Ant/Termite/Bee Hierarchy.  We had Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection come along and they never really Evolved the Organism to much as far as its Agenda/Purpose, but only to reveal more that the Human Company Corporations had Agendas to use the Organisms for its Bio-Weapons Research and Development Departments.

Looking at the Franchise... it was a case of what to do NEXT?  We ended up with a number of Games/Comics which a number where Great Fun... but these were mainly those that explored the Predator and Alien in the same Universe and so we ended up with the AVP Movies which only further downgraded what the Xenomorph WAS.

At this Point the Xenomorph from the Franchise in the Whole was a Invasive Species that had ONE Purpose and this was to Simply Survive and Procreate Much like some kind of more Advanced Termite/Ant.  We had the Reveal that in the ALIEN Movies the Companies wanted to exploit the Organism as a Bio-Weapon, the AVP Movies showed the Predators used the Organism as the Ultimate Prey for the Hunt.

The True Mystery of the Xenomorph still remained as to WHERE did it come from.....  which goes back to the Derelict/Space Jockey Scene where for a long time Ridley Scott had indicated it was a Bio-Weapon that the Space Jockey Race used.

IF..... we Did-Not explore this Mystery then we have to ask WHAT/WHERE Next?

We could have tried the ALIEN Formula again, this was also tried with Alien 3 and we have to ask, after seeing the Beast on Screen in more greater numbers in Aliens, Alien Resurrection and the AVP Movies.. Could they really give us a few more ALIEN style Flicks and doing another few of those would the Xenomorph just be a Alien Space Jason Voorhees?  

They could have gone the ALIENS Formula but how many of these in light of Alien Resurrection and the AVP Movies before we are just getting a Starship Troopers kind of Flick?

The only LOGICAL route if they Ignored the Prequels would have been to take Alien Resurrection as far as the Purpose and the Agenda of the Company in the Franchise and show us the Xenomorph being Evolved, Experimented on and offer something different to the Xenomorph we see in Alien, Aliens and Alien 3.

I FEEL THIS ^^^^ is what Ridley Scott was saying regarding how you can go a few more rounds but you have to EVOLVE him (Xenomorph) and you have to come up with something Fresh.

I'm excited about this replacement Scott is talking about!

It's too bad that there will be no more Giger in the next Aliens movies as Fox does no want to royalties to his Estate. and from 2049, Blade runner is Philip k D-ck-free.  

Without those 2, sir Scott would have never been considered a master of sci-fi. And judging by such interviews he does not really know where to continue his story, so in all likely-hood the last movie in the series will be disappointing.

As for the xenomorph, he already has cheated celluloid death way to much.