Comments (Page 494)

@ IRaptus and Joylitt

The majority of issues which you have both seem to have and mentioned in one way or another, and there are plenty that you have’nt, are imo a result of cinematic snowcloning in the extreme. When a director is snowcloning their own tropes it can be like watching a comedian laughing at their own jokes. Star Wars: The Force Awakens was able to pull it off because it was an upfront reboot of the franchise and the various trope nods acted to signify a handing over of the torch to a new cast.  I think Fox had the same idea by using the xeno. In their haste to chase a profit, it would appear that they have jumped head first into a barrel of tits to come out sucking their thumbs.

The original Alien was completely unique and void of any references to snowclone and this is where I think Ridley is now making a point. I think it also proves how much control Ridley has not had in AC.

IRaptus You just read my mind. I have a long list of things Ridley can blame AC's failure for. I don't think anybody in the audience said: "I am not going to see this movie because the xenomorph is in it" No, people got turned off because this was another movie with a bunch of disposable characters who don't know better, a lot of bad cgi, a franchise screwing twist in the form of rogue AI creating the xenomorph, a beast that was totally misused, out in the daylight, unscary, easily killed in the most anticlimatic, badly put together 3rd act I've ever seen.

My concern is how offhanded Ridley Scott used the Xenomorph in Covenant. I enjoyed the film but that third act was a complete slap in the face to the Xenomorph legacy. Dull, lacklustre and rushed it did nothing to enhance the fear and dread of the beast. That whole hunt scene on the Covenant was totally impassionate 

 I Moon Girl "Prometheus needs to be built upon.  There are to many possibilities where some need to be chosen and anchored into reality."

I totally agree with that. But I am very worried about Ridley's latest statements. It sounds like he is dismissing more than just the xenomorph...

Prometheus needs to be built upon.  There are to many possibilities where some need to be chosen and anchored into reality.

I don't hate the Xeno, but we need answers to the questions being raised in the prequels.  My biggest problem with the Xeno in A:C is that it just wasn't scary.  AND I mean the Xeno wasn't even CLOSE to being scary.  If the Xeno was scary, then I'd support its use.  If it is not going to be scary, then explore the Engineers with all of the ideas of "Engineers created humans..." and such.  Those ideas are really interesting and can be scary as well.  Prometheus had that kind of fear in it.  The fear comes from not understanding what is happening.  That fear is similar to what the fear was like in the original Alien.

With Prometheus as proof that we can get an epic/intellectual/scary/visually stunning movie that greatly expands the Alien universe, I would have to say Ridley Scott is not a hack.  He was ahead of the curve with Prometheus and I greatly appreciate that Prometheus can be something more than just a stand alone movie because... Prometheus is a part of the Alien franchise.  Prometheus just needs to be developed so that it can concretely connect to what we know as the original 4.

I think we are all going to love Alien:Awakening after reading that Fox wants Ridley to do something really different.  Plus, I'm excited that the Alien: Awakening story isn't going to be based on a Xeno killing people for the whole movie.  We should get something very original and will hopefully expand the Alien universe into something that can be built upon in an Alien franchise reboot.

I don't think anyone can disagree with Ridley until the whole prequel trilogy is over.  These movies are all linked together.  It's not like Alien3 or Alien: Resurrection or even Aliens.  All those movies are dragging out Ripley's life.  I really don't know how else Ripley can be dragged into another movie and actually have it be good.  I think the Ripley clone in A:R was a good idea, but honestly, I think her story is over.  The original 4 could pretty much be stand alone movies.  The only thing connecting them is Ripley, yet cyrosleep allows the story to take place at almost any time.

So, pack to the topic.  The reason why I see the Xeno as being the problem with A:C is because it wasn't even close to being scary.  Ridley did screw up on that.  I remember in interviews that Ridley said, "Alien: Covenant is going to scare the $H!t out of people."  Guess what?... it didn't.  That interview is what really bothers me on Ridley's thinking.  If he thinks A:C is scary, then maybe he has lost it?  Prometheus was scary, so if Ridley lost it, it was between those two movies.  Yet, apparently Fox and the fans forced Ridley to put the Xeno in.  Now, apparently Fox is letting Ridley do what he wants as long as it's pushing the envelope.  I think Ridley can push the envelope since Prometheus did.  I'm excited about Alien: Awakening now.

Spearfish I agree with you... the alien was misused and blaming it for AC's lack of success is like blaming the victim.

MonsterZero If the xenomorph is not important why it is the background picture in this forum, why its image is everywhere. They need to re-evaluate why this franchise is called "Alien".

It's called Alien not Xenomorph....If they called it Xenomorph:Covenant...or Xeno:Awakening...then yeah i can see the problem.

Going down the Freddy Krueger Jason Voorhees retread, recycle is sad.

Doomed to forever have the same old monster.

Was Alien:Resurrection about the Xeno's or the NEWBORN? Prolly should have called it Alien:Newborn.

Yes...lots of questions.

If they were super secret weapons manufacturing plants...Why are they in plain sight? Why not buried deep underground where the prying eyes of space travelers or spy satellites can't pick them out?!    I mean, Voyager 2 would have spotted these tombs from a fly over!

Or they didn't care about being seen...they are the top of the food chain....and cave people on Earth might never get into space.

And why tell the people of Earth about THIS place?!

Blaming it on the beast? On the alien?  That the movie is titled after???  He's either lost his mind or he was lucky in the initial installment of this series and simply doesn't have the capacity to recreate that magic.  I find it humorous that the beast is claimed as being cooked, and we still don't know how it came to be, created by whom and why?  That is the movie that needs made.  Get rid of the AI.  The malfunctioning AI is more rediculous than the beast being real.   I mean Daniels witnessed rogue AI and didn't tell Muther to prohibit entry of either AI...umm. I am sure they probably have a backup to Walter in a locker somewhere?  Mission critical redundancy?  Right?  LOL.

Thanks

Sadly, Ridley Scott is making business movies rather than making films. Alien was a film, and for a director who got a late start in his career, he should refer back to his early days for the AC follow up.

Personally, Scott's films, post-Alien and Blade Runner are rather dull, and Covenant was a massive disappointment, especially in the third act. 

If he decides to remove the Xeno from the main spotlight, then he needs to keep using Giger's aesthetic in the next film. The only reason Alien worked was because of Giger. 

Yeah thats right and i just watched the trailer and am stunned. really nice. Just wanted to know, how to hack guns of boom game? as i am seeing lots of guys talking about it here.

Well, not sure how this is going to go. I am all for a final prequel that wraps up David and the Engineers and that's where the focus is. I would definitely prefer the Alien to have a small role in that film, but I feel like what we saw in Covenant is really the extent of what Scott wil do with it. He thinks it is just a beast, really. He doesn't love it as a many of us fans do (I honestly think that he does to a certain point, but not at all like us, you know?).

At this point, he thinks of it as more of a burden, which sucks. I really hope he can find a cool, smart way to bring the Alien in to the upcoming film because I feel as if a conclusion (even if there are questions left afterward) to David and the Engineers needs the Alien at this point. Or, it really should have it. 

Ridley Scott is a director with a multiplicity of interests and makes a wide range of different films which focus on very different subject matter. However it is clear he feels, or has felt, a responsibility to the fanbase of ALIEN as well as follow the instincts of good film making. It has generated uncertainty where there should have been none.

There is a fanbase which has an unwavering interest in scenarios which use the Xenomorph as an antagonist, people often offer Alien Isolation as a great example of an ALIEN story. However beyond the fanbase it is more of the same.

The only possible way you can take the Xenomorph and make it interesting beyond the narrow fanbase is to deconstruct its history. Who, why, were. Give it context, Prometheus should have answered all of those questions decisively (It is an accident of unauthorised sub creation or a punishment to the makers of unauthorised sub creation).

He could then have moved on to much more fertile ground. A creation mythos which deals with all of the possibilities as our protagonists evolve and change as more of the puzzle is solved.

David in search of a soul (what is existence) which is beautifully handled in Bladerunner 2049.

Elizabeth like the Engineers in search of answers who suffers a fall.

All this is lost but at least Ridley has evidence the beast is cooked, it has nothing more to tell us. Its a parasite with acid blood which demonstrates non consensual sexual reproduction which needs to be destroyed. Ripley knew that, the story cannot be a rerun of more short sighted W-Y attempts to harness it that has been done to death, it would have worked taking the ALIEN Mutagen and seeing whether it can be controlled by the deluded and the dreamer.

There is an outside chance the mutagen can be used as punishment by the Engineers for the loss of Paradise which fails (the space jockey) against mankind but that to is merely Prometheus re run but with a motivation. 

It is difficult to see how Ridley can direct the next film if he has so little interest in what he has set up. He sounds about as interested in following through Covenant as I would be in watching it.What do you do with those face hugger embryo's put them in the bin. 

Instead of showing what happened on LV426, I would leave that Space Jockey alone. It's millions of years old and leave it at that.

Instead....

I would have the Covenant find another planet/moon with dozens (thousands!?)of crashed derelicts. ALL with SJ's that were chestbursted(or facebursted/backbursted)Like they have been in a massive space war.

Have juggernaut husks orbiting the planet, full of black goo and pods. Frozen pods scattered in space...maybe a canister or two. Hope no one brings any of that stuff aboard!

This could show what happened to the Space Jockey on LV426 without having to go there. Just another casualty of interstellar war.

I think most would accept a war angle? 

Yog Sothoth It is very sad to see insults. let's remember that the teacher was been respect with pinocchio and geppetto could have been proud of him.          Gavin        interesting theory of the whole!

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

"Maybe a less is more approach would be better like the first film. Maybe have it's intelligence rival David's."

Yeah..that's the thing....Xeno was outsmarted, outfoxed by a little girl and if that little girl had a some hand grenades(maybe a pulse rifle too), she would have wiped the Xeno's from LV426. Not exactly the dreaded cosmic horror....The perfect organism!

Keeping Daniels alive would be a giant middle finger to Rapace, IMHO, and more of a reason to not pay Fox anymore money.

Wow those are some detailed and gorgeous images, nice and High-Def too!! Thanks Ati

I know the contest is over but for me HE was my ultimate favorite. I hope he had a great life.

thanks all, great points! 

Agreed BigDave Daniels knows to much for David to let live. My only question mark is that interview where Ridley Scott started talking about Awakening and Katherine Waterston excitedly cut him before giving things away...someone whom seemed excited about whats to come, not someone whose character will be killed off?? 

Shaw we know fights for her faith, and for answers to the questions about our origin.

I like Waterston as Daniels but I honestly don't know what she fights for. That being said we didn't really know what Ripley fought for until Aliens when the beast took from her a relationship with her daughter. From there it was her mission to exterminate the species.  So perhaps we will be given something in Covenant 2 that makes us root for Daniels??

Shaw

I missed her in AC

I don't care about Daniels at all.

I'm happy with what RS says and I think a fifty fifty focus on A.I. and Engineers is the way to go. I remember what got me in Alien was the jockey and not necessarily the Xeno. If he can pull off that scenario and have the Xeno in the background would be awesome. Like a pet or a helpful CPU like mother would be perfect. And please for the love of us, let the story breathe a bit. The fast paced Covenant was a tad too rushed, I'm not saying the movie was bad in overall scope but it felt like wam-bam thank you fans for the tickets. Kinda like how I bombed my best man speech for my brother's wedding. Haha! 

Maybe a less is more approach would be better like the first film. Maybe have it's intelligence rival David's.

@ali81 I thought there were scenes in Prometheus that reminded me of scary scenes in the original Alien.  Yet, Prometheus had a deep story that took over instead of the fear.

ali81 said, ". I know whats coming and yet I still jump when Dallas turns round."

I watched the original Alien a week or so before Alien: Covenant came out.  I haven't watched the original Alien in years.  So, that scene you mentioned caused me to uncontrollably scream briefly.  I knew it was coming, but I just didn't know when the exact moment would be.

Prometheus was almost a perfect movie.  I AM IN LOVE WITH IT'S IDEA 100%!  There was just some scenes that I really didn't like.  Scott's movies are prequels.  This is an rare opportunity to really bring in something new under the Alien franchise.  If creativity was applied after A:R, I would just see it as a gimic to write another Alien movie.  It would be like the writers were running out of ideas.  With the prequels, there is an excuse for telling a story beyond the Xeno and giving something different.  The reason is the space jockey.  I want to know more about that jockey and that is the whole point of the prequels.  Once they are done, I assume the Xeno will come back in future Alien movies that aren't prequels.  Yet, there will be a whole expanded universe available to create a different story then the typically Alien movie.  The first Alien movie is the best because we don't know anything about the Xeno.  We don't even know we should call it a Xeno.  Aliens was good because it was different then the first and played off our Alien knowledge.  I could go on about Alien3 and A:R, but I'm not.

I'm perfectly happy with no Xeno.  I LOVE the fact that the relation to the Alien franchise is barely noticable in Prometheus.  I LOVE THAT!  I hope Alien: Awakening will be similar, yet it does need to tie into the original Alien movie.

The Alien movies are supposed to have some fear in them.  A:C had none, just suspense.  Prometheus did and there was NO XENO involved in those scary scenes.  I hope A:A will be just as original as Prometheus, while still linking us into Alien.

I'm excited!  I can't wait for the prequel!  FANTASTIC DECISION RIDLEY SCOTT!!!!!! 

I think this decently long post shows my excitement.

How can it be called an ALIEN movie if the Goddamn Alien isn't in it? He doesn't need to replace the Alien, he just needs to use it better.

Theres actually several scenarios of both of them surviving. Here is a good list of it:

https://www.avpcentral.com/hicks-newt-alternate-fates

Good riddance with the Xeno.

I'm 100% behind dumping the monster. Been done to death. pun intended.

I'm okay with an Alien5 as long as there is no Xenomorphs or Ripley.

Something completely new.

Well there are lots of people complaining actually. What's next? An alien film without aliens? This is ridiculous.

totally agree moon girl. the derelict, as far as im concerned, should be left the way it was first assumed and that is that it is thousands of years old. for me, if they change that and make its demise down to David, it ruins so much of the mystery from the original movie. we don't really have to see what became of the derelict. we can have a scenario where David learns of the crashed derelict and he sets off to find it perhaps, which connects the 2 yet preserves the mystery of the iconic ship

For us (my children and myself), the Covenant line bombed because it left the xenomorph arc. We watch the movies because of the xenos, not the engineers or David. I'd absolutely love it if they were turn some of the novels into movies. Just please keep Scott's mitts off of them. We've been sorely disappointed with his movies the past several years. I want xenomorphs, not an android with a god-complex. 

Agree with Leto

I would much rather have Shaw, yet I do want the story to move forward.

Maybe Daniels finds a way to survive and ends up learning things about Shaw upon surviving by doing research on some WY company computer log files or something.  So then, in a sense, Daniels starts to think like Shaw.  In this way, we could see a similar Shaw character come back, but the character would have a bite and not just rely on luck, like Daniels.  I would be interested in that character and that is the only way I could see Shaw coming back.  I really want the story to move forward though.

I agree with BigDave that the story will movie around 10 years after Alien: Covenant.  To be honest, I don't think we will even get flashbacks of Daniels.  I feel that there is just going to be to much information in Alien: Awakening to leave room for Daniels.  I think we are going to get a lot of answers that we've been craving.  All those answers are going to have to have build up and cannot be simply said by someone.  These answers are going to be part of a story.

I just hope that Alien: Awakening doesn't end with the space jockey crashing on LV-426 or implies that the space jockey is going to crash.  It would be cool if that derelict could have been there for millions of years since the prequels would only add to the wonder that the space jockey tells us in the original Alien.  Now, with the prequels, we can imagine all kinds of stories for the space jockey.  I would like it to be that way, yet I'm also up for some fantastic writing.  I trust the writers enough that we'll get something good.  I don't trust them blindly and at 100%, but I'm fairly pleased with the prequels so far.  I don't trust them with giving us a good scare though.  Sadly, Alien: Covenant wasn't scary.  Honestly, I could just go on about the fear factor in the prequels, but I don't think this is the thread for that.

do I think the xeno is cooked? no but I think it isn't what should be the main focus now and I don't think it was used well enough in AC. should it be about David?no, it should be about the engineers. they connect everything together, the xeno, humanity, themselves and whatever lies beyond the stars. I think what RS is trying to say is theres a big universe out there and its being wasted focusing solely on the xeno. its time for expansion. They also run a big risk making it all about David imo

How about replace the director?

u want dumbass decisions in an alien movie just watch AR.

 The Aliens have been on Earth many times before in the Expanded universe:

https://www.avpcentral.com/earth-infestaton

This was before Prometheus came along

its obvious the intent within the film was that the engineers seed worlds with their dna and a humanoid life form will evolve from that seed. but whats unclear is when they do this on earth.