Comments (Page 622)

BigDave

Thank you for providing the quote which perfectly illustrates my point the soul is defined by a promise for the return of the body and blood, rather than a separate non corporeal entity which is not bound by earth bound constructs in eternity.

The subtext of the quote is that everything is defined by materialism and it is notable that the elder does not offer eternal salvation for the Engineer Acolyte but a return, defining everything within a limited physical reality. The point of a third Promethean movie would have been to establish that the Engineers view was limited and why they suffered terrible retribution both at their own hands and at the hands of their sub creators sub creation was because there was a moral relativism which comes out of a creative creationist mythos. 

On a personal note BD, whats interesting about all you say is you will never commit to a view you like to offer conjecture and possibilities, as I have said before I am a complete finisher I like resolution and answers. I like to pose the question find all of them and then make a judgement.

chili

Curiously enough I am coming round to a resolution in my own mind about several things which your question deals with:-

1) The first is that having read quite a few responses to Covenant, even one today on AVP reviewing the blu ray, that if I was Fox I would stop these prequels because there is no one homogenous identifiable audience for them. The person in question "Darkness" thought Covenant was great and a vast improvement on Prometheus because it did away with the Engineers and gave him/her Xenomorphs. That is entirely at odds with another segment of the feedback. I am convinced the creature will provide the law of diminishing returns, you on the other hand do not believe its cooked and has legs. Given the huge disparity of feedback I would not risk another 100 million on this conjecture.

2) These films do not fit with modern pre occupations for block busters clearly Covenant is nothing like the big sellers and most of the core fan base seem in the main to be interested in horror and gore which is limiting audience wise.

3) What I have attempted to do is offer a different narrative that I represent a segment of the first generation of the A L I E N audience who found the thought provoking Prometheus the right way to re look at this world and thoroughly enjoyed Lindelofs approach and a crew which felt like real flawed people rather than this modern need where the characters have to be bullet proof, all the narrative to be explained (the helmets issues) and perfectly consistent (the size of the Jockey and the derelict which are simply artistic license). My thoughts about how the series could have developed is to show to myself and anyone who cares to read that there was an audacious thought provoking way forward. I do not claim they are my ideas they come out of what was hinted back in 2013 to early 2015.

Ridley has said on the commentary of Covenant that there is a follow up to Covenant and a backing into the Jockey movie so we have yet another filler movie to come, I am getting bored and thinking out loud how it might have gone, which I notice others are doing and is an expression of rejection and boredom with what we have.

My final observation is the revelation of John Logan's script on which A:C was announced and funded basically took the following position :- 

1) Give it a more generic sci fi feel.

2) Sign off only as much as you need to drop the Engineers.

3) Kill off Elizabeth as a face hug.

4) A creature in the first act.

5) The creature in the third act.

6) Make David the antagonist in the second act driven by the narrative of AI without a moral conscious (Alien hi jacked by Bladerunner). 

That every really interesting Promethean link was added in after this shows their dilemma and one reflected in your post about what sort of movie should they make. 

I think thats me done now for a while. 

LOL dk, enjoy the movie. I will watch the remaining tonight as well. 

Well this did not last, today 19 august, Wonder Woman (starring a short actress with thick accent) is number one on amazon.com even if is still on pre-order (with exactly a month till release).

Writing, well, a lot of writers we start with an idea and just kind of go along for the ride ourselves, really. :)

TY also!!

Michelle

You always have interesting analyses, but sometimes I wonder what you want to achieve with them (when it comes to these films’ development)? Do you want a development that would satisfy your interests, or do you want blockbuster films? The letter ones are most often very simple 3 act constructs, with fairly stereotyped characters, easy to see problems that must be solved by the main characters and often either eternal “simple” human problems (love) or modern, trendy ones.

James Cameron made the blockbusters Titanic and Avatar because he made simple 3 act structured movies, with stereotyped characters, and “simple” problems. He also made them into blockbusters by attracting both sexes, that is a love story is in the centre (where particularly the woman is most focused on - giving her almost all Superman qualities there is (like Ripley, Daniels etc). In Titanic it’s Rose and Jack, and in Avatar it’s Neytiri and Jake. Then there are the bad guys - in Titanic it’s Hockley and in Avatar Colonel Quaritch. The theme embedded in Titanic is class structure (rich/poor, men/women) and there is a catastrophe with lots of action. In Avatar it's environmental and ethnic themes and a catastrophe (war) with lots of action.

Although RS has done his best to attract the female audience (which is half of the audience) with the protagonist being a woman who has all the qualities of men (technical experts, can shoot with any kind of weapon etc) plus all the best qualities of women (emotional, empathic etc), he has still not succeeded in attracting most of them.

When Carpenter made The Thing, it was not a blockbuster but it’s still among many (male) sci-fi-horror enthusiasts favourites. It was an all-male movie without a love story in the centre. It was about surviving in a desolate part of Antarctica with a monster chasing them. There was also an Agatha Christie (“And then there were None”) feeling to it.

Perhaps they should make movies for a specific audience (target group), men/women/intellectuals/action seekers etc instead of trying to make a mishmash of everything, trying to make a blockbuster (but then the production company won’t get its money back)?

A synthetic that doesn't have a rebellious streak. Even Bishop went rogue with his knife party trick lol 

Ash tried to choke Ripley to death with a magazine - you rebel

Call deliberately spilt the moonshine - Rebel

David - Genocidal maniac with daddy issues. Currently trying to kill humanity

Walter - one time at band camp..... he indulged in a little unauthorised fluting 

someone who can do the fingering properly apparently :p

Very good catch on Isle of the Dead, WillGro. I hadn't spotted that one.

NB, I saw Pierro della Francesca's painting at the National Gallery. It's massive, like the size of a man. I was expecting It to be much smaller in real life.

It's not very good. Zero scariness.

David's ship does 'emit' some kind of blue light when it sets off on its journey.

As to how they are constructed, the distinction between 'grown' and 'made' gets rather blurred in an advanced technological civilisation. There may be a time, perhaps in a hundred years even on Earth, when you can buy a dehydrated packet of vacuum cleaner nano particles, add water, a few kilos of powdered rock and – presto – you've got a new vacuum cleaner.

It's definitely plausible, and a common theme in sci fi. They took a similar angle in the Dune universe, where AI is abhorrent and human 'mentats' fulfil the computing role instead. In Neuromancer they have the 'Turing Police' whose purpose is to stop AIs from getting too smart.

But did David really announce his arrival? Or was the crowd already there to welcome the scorpion ship?

"Look upon my Works, ye Mighty and despair!"

He's so vain, he wouldn't feel the need to talk to them in person. There's enough going on in his head to bother with that. His bombs are message enough.

The Darkness has arrived. dk will watch the Precious and 7 versions of the Noomi now.

David apparently ripped out something from Walter after the initial ass whoopin' but it looked ambiguous. Later, Walter showed up and said that he had received upgrades since David's time.

Where are the power packs for these robots housed? If I were David, I'd have ripped out an incapacitated Walter's power pack.

great work again! You still seem to be following a path for Awakening that seems logical and exciting! well done

I saw no evidence of a decapitation.

That is a great answer Timmy the ultramorph.

No, the answer is not the lack of ethics and empathy at Weyland-Yutani Corporation.

"What is more rare than capturing a xenomorph in the Alien universe?"

There are 2 clues in the topic opener and comments.

Thank you for trying though...you could easily argue that is the right answer because greed is healthy at the Weyland-Yutani Corporation.

 I wonder if it's a case of Walter lost his head somehow, like David did lol

Then the Engineers come back to find an alive, but decapitated Walter in their church/holy building.

Last I saw, Walter straddled David about to punch him and David said it was better to rule in hell then to serve in heaven. Then the scene ended with both alive. I think Walter lives.

cgmoseley I noticed the "poor thing" but I thought it was because Shaw looked restrained. I didn't notice the pregnant bit.....back to the blue ray.

Interesting since the hammerpede regenerated in Prometheus. In AC, it looked as though the neomorphs might be able to generate as they looked like bullet sponges early on. Eventually the big one stayed down after Oram shot it several times.

Jonesy Thanks- good to hear. I am still farting around waiting for darkness!

people who car about something othere than money.

I have watched 40 mins of it and so far it is pretty good. I am surprised how great they are able to make 7 Noomi appeared in a single shot. Just amazing. And Noomi is such a great actress, made me feel sad she is not on Covenant. 

When you watch the Scene when the xeno gets crushed you see that the only things that Get crushed are it's  legs and an arm, the head and torso are still attached. 

Thoughts_Dreams That's what I think too. I hated Shaw but not the actor Noomi.

cuponator3000 I have a Soilent Green DVD buried around somewhere- maybe I will have to dig that up again.

cuponator3000 Do you mean Monday or The Drop? I sort of wonder if some made for Netflix movies are a bit like you describe- not quite theater worthy? Not that it's bad- viewing habits seem headed in this direction.

I liked the movie, but mainly only Rapace's perofrmance... The whole film itself felt like it was lacking something. I feel like this could have been treated as, like, bigger. You know? It fell below or right around the level of the Hunger Games, Mazrunner, and all that stuff when it comes to dystopian future films. There were some scenes, concepts and performance moments that showed the potential that this story had, but the whole project did not live up to that (in my opinion only, of course)

I mean, I am sure that if I watched it a few more times I would appreicate it more, but I don't want to rewatch it haha! It just doesn't have much replay value. Still though, I can't stress how well Rapace performed! I am also excited for Unlocked, which stars Rapace and Orlando Bloom! It unfortunately looks as if it is a pretty run-of-the-mill action type flick, but it might rise above that! I'll find out!

Hopefully "Unlocked," doesn't detract from her growing star power IF it is just a meh action film. "What Happened To Monday?," was a great example of Rapace's skill.  

I just get the sense from this that 'this guy doesn't have a clue where hes going with this' and its starting to show

Nice catch Thombach! I completely missed he went from plural to singular there when I read it.

would their fear of AI possibly have come from having done something similar in their own history? we see stuff like terminator and the matrix and ok they are different films but the premise is the same. I believe many scientist and experts in that field believe that creating AI would be a dangerous route to go down as a computer that can think for itself and be self aware, could very well view its creator as a threat. being self aware would create that primal urge to survive and what such a creation would do to prolong its own existence is unkown so hence may view us as a threat. is it possible the engineers, millennia before they started seeding worlds had dabbled in AI and it reeked havoc amongst them and possibly led to a war? they have possibly managed to wipe the threat out (or maybe not) but have gotten to the stage they feel safe. they have seen how manking is evolving and can see where we are headed and that AI is something that they perceive as a path we will eventually take so they planned to stop this.

yes the engineer did def seem to smile and look upon david with positive emotion, then almost like someone had slapped him to his senses, proceeded to rip his head off and use it to kill the creator.

great thread, gets the synapsis working

@ Thombach

Yeah, it does mention pathogens then talks about the singular "it". Hard to grasp what he means. Could it be that David is refering collectively to all the urns as "their pathogens", but each urn contains the same pathogen?

I will look it up- thanks. Meanwhile, I need snacks and beverage and wait for the dark to watch this movie. AC two nights in a row and then this- very exciting week!

Yog Sothoth Yes, it helps to explain and even excuse discrepancies- reminds me a bit of the different gestation times of the chest bursters during all movies including AVPR. I will just go with it and enjoy personally.

put part duex up for u blackwater ma friend. wasn't at the races tonight so not sure what I make of it tbh.

@ dk

David says, in the "Advent" extension, that the pathogen "generates a unique reaction with every genome it encounters"

One effect is killing engineers quickly, with super fast parasite burstings.

good film. wont spoil it for u if u plan to watch it dk. she was good in it

You have to add Doctor Who and Star Trek to that list also dude lol.

Doctor Who, Star Wars, Star Trek and Alien. The sci-fi franchises that grown men will fight over.

Late to the party here. To the OP, nice captures, and I liked this scene but thought it was a bit odd to see the pathogen take effect immediately on contact.