Comments (Page 85)

@BigDave 

> i HOPE we never get any Time-Travel in the Franchise but i SUSPECT that Disney would be OPEN to such a thing.

Same, i am really worried about disney owning alien, since they might mess it up *cough cough* Star wars *cough cough*

I'd love to see that kind of thing explored further, because the Galaxy is vast and may be teeming with all manner of amazing organisms and civilisations, both old and new. I'm not talking about Jabba the Hut or Jar Jar Binks. I'm talking about proper alien stuff that requires real imagination.

Frankly, I'm getting a little bored of movies with humans in space. My ideal movie would be set two hundred million years in the past (one Galactic rotation) featuring Engineers marauding across the cosmos. They'd be "educating" and wiping out worlds with gay abandon. And we'd maybe see it spelled out in black and white that they're all about genocide and are inherently one step up from being racist. And why is this? Well, there's a question. Shaw wanted to know why they hate us so much. So would I!

I suspect they consider themselves to be "pure", and can't tolerate the impure. Perhaps for good reasons. Maybe in the dim and distant past a great evil pervaded the Galaxy and the Engineers fought tooth and nail to eradicate it, perhaps with the help of technology from an even older (and long gone) civilisation.

In this movie there wouldn't be a human in sight.

Of course, that kind of stuff would never be made by Hollywood. Far too way out. But I'd make it if I won the lottery!

> 

We know the Xenomorph can lead to Genetic Memory Transfer we have seen this with Ripley 8, and so we maybe CANT RULE OUT that David would Sacrifice himself to INDEED Create the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph and that HIS (Davids) SOUL will be Passed onto into the Xenomorphs Consciousness. He would IMMORTALIZE HIMSELF within the Xenomorph.

Hmmm, that's true but i think a better way would be to make him the "King/emperor alien" Which is basically a male queen, but outside the hivemind, it hunts down humans/entities it deems to be a "threat". I think that david being that would make the most sense, as he would be outside the hivemind, and would only target certain things (ie: humans). The reason to why we don't see him could be that he simply was elsewhere

@BigDave, yes I agree. Time Travel would be a terrible idea for the Alien Universe. It's the biggest laziest trope in Science Fiction. I rarely enjoy time travel movies.

That would Explain it HOX!  I guess when you Famous and a Creator as David is then he maybe thinks the Woman would LET HIM do what ever he Pleases?

Hands! off my Jonesey

But on a Serious Note............... i HOPE we never get any Time-Travel in the Franchise but i SUSPECT that Disney would be OPEN to such a thing.

Well i think that is INTERESTING ;)

Certainly you could look at the LV-223 Engineers in this way, if they are Created by some Machine or Process (rather than Born) and for them to be Resurrected would mean they would have to be PASSED ON a SET of Memories/Knowledge.  Because if when they are Created they are a BLANK CANVAS so they have No Knowledge or Memories or Prior Experiences then it would NOT be a Resurrection.... that is UNTIL you Transfer/Program this into them.

So in that CONTEXT then the Engineers would be similar to DAVID, only that they are Organic rather than Synthetic.  I am drawn to that the LV-223 Engineers are a Sub-Created Superior Version that was Created by the other Engineers for a Specific Purpose.

If there ARC is then Similar to Davids, in that they SEE they are Superior to their Creators and begin to ASK to WHY they should Serve and do Mundane or Dangerous Tasks so those other Engineers can Play Happy Hobbits on Planet 4!

This then OPENS UP the Humanity Connection as...

*Are they a Sub-Creation of the LV-223 Engineers as they WANTED to Play God or maybe Create their own Servants?

But we (like them) eventually would NOT behave and Serve our Creator.

*Are they a Creation of the Planet 4 Engineers and those Engineers started to see Humans as Important than the LV-223 Engineers?

So then the LV-223 Engineers became Jealous and wanted to Destroy Mankind or Evolve us into something they could USE to then Overthrow their own Creators.

The Source i had for Prometheus 2 (2014) did describe like Birth Tanks that was like the Sleep Pods in the Matrix, and inside was Humanoids being Grown, which seemed to indicate the Engineers were indeed being Created/Cloned.  This could Explain as to WHY they cannot Procreate.... but being Genetically Similar to Humans they could USE their DNA to Seed/Evolve Life via the Sacrificial Goo.

The Original Idea (2010-2011) seemed to be that the Engineers would LIVE for Many Thousands of Years, but they LOST the ability to Procreate (this Pretty much seemed to be the same in 2012).

But as 2015/2016 came along then the Engineers had Changed, and RS had suggest they LIVE for about 200 Years, and they can Procreate (have Females and Infants) and so.......

IF there is something about the Experiments on LV-223 and the Origin of the Deacon and all those Horrors, and IF this was something the Engineers saw as maybe a WAY to gain some kind of Immortality/Resurrection, or even just a way to Genetically make themselves Superior.

Then that means we have to Question if....

*Are those Engineers on Planet 4 are AWARE of the Horrors/Experiments on LV-223. Or are they Completely in the Dark?

*Had those Engineers on Planet 4 been Aware and Actively Interested in this and Trying to Prolong their Lives but they then ABANDONED it all?

If what RS has said is the WAY they want to go with those Engineers (Planet 4) then they seem Content and Accepting that they are NOT anywhere near IMMORTAL and so they are NOT that Interesting in trying to gain any Immortality and maybe see they have Resurrection from the LIFE that can be Created by their Donation of their DNA (Sacrifice).

I think its OPEN to how they could have Explored it, as FAR as we still dont have all the Answers/Agenda and History of the Engineers.

 "They are a bit like Elizabeth, who also can't reproduce her own kind." 

So pleased you made this connection. It took me a while to get there but this and the fact that the Engineers are so strung up on invasive birthing (the fresco) gave me the link backwards to the Waterfall Engineers and precisely how Elizabeth would react to the mother of all HRT's (see what I did there). 

Yeah, we don't know what the cargo the space jockey was hauling, could have been umbrellas for all we know. Crew of the Nostromo never reached it. Nor did Newt's father. It's one of the reasons I'm okay with David planting the eggs on the LV-426 juggernaut ( if this is / was their intention ). Keeps the cargo and the space jockey a mystery!

Yes, I love the face hugger,  It's not just out to procreate 'little face huggers'. It has a greater purpose.    They are a bit like Elizabeth, who also can't reproduce her own kind.

And to stop the Engineers mass resurrections, someone ( David ?) destroys the bio machine(s)...Making all the Engineers in the galaxy suddenly mortal. 

One of the things that Ridley has said down the years was that no one talked about the guy in the chair. There is an argument that you 'don't go there" but if you do then the other big question is who was the cargo intended for. It's very unfortunate that the story in the early drafts began life with the Ovoids as a general weapon, which is not exactly logical or practical. The creation of a Mutagen was much more pervasive as a broad threat, as an evolutionary tool.

To me, the Face Hugger and its capacity to rape implant, and reproduce 'something' have the most legs in terms of story and horror and provide some kind of philosophical weight rather than merely just be 'cool'. Non-consensual sacrificial creation seemed to link perfectly to the consensual incident at the Waterfall. There is so much in that scene. This is a world of sanctified, consensual sacrifice to pursue creation and somehow we end up with non-consensual sacrifice which the lore indicates creates something else. Joining that up seems to be an obvious thing to do and because the Engineers are a highly primitive ritualistic race gives the chance to blur the lines between Darwin and the Abrahamic religions. 

It would be nice if he could put on a bit of weight, turn a little orange, find a time machine and travel back to Earth in the year 2016 to further his ambitions. That would explain a lot.

I would make his a hero's death.

After loathing humanity for so long.....Ultimately, He becomes their savior.

 "hey we need a monster now." 

I could read a thousand pages of callbacks, echos, investing. Monsters are the filler ( the Deacon from Prometheus showed this woefully ). If they removed the Xeno from Alien:Covenant it would have been a much better movie ( imho ) 

I'd rather read about Charlie missing a flight and Elizabeth stewing over it.  Or Charlie saving Elizabeth from drowning. Their Jeep breaking down in some back water town and Charlie getting in a fight ( a synthetic breaks it up )...Etc...

"The Sacrificial Scene had SHOWN the stuff that Engineer had Drank would Dissolve and Break Down/Apart the Engineer and so he would be DEAD but his DNA would be what would SEED the World/Evolve the Basic Life on said WORLD. "

I always assumed this was symbolic. Sacrifice someone then bomb the living hell out of the planet.

"...Trying to Increase their LIFE SPANS..." 

Who wants to live forever in hell? Sounds like this is the path they were taking. Seems VERY counter productive to a long life! 

I'm going to posit that they are immortal. Each time they die, a wave function collapses at the origin of their birth. This signals a massive bio machine that resurrects them and they trundle back to what they were doing.

Hopefully in a way that is unexpected. To make him the creator of the Xeno and let that be his downfall is too obvious. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if that's what will happen, so they should come up with something better.

You need smart writers to make a good story, as the prequels have shown. Whatever the case may be I hope that they kill him off early in the movie. There are already two that features David a lot and Covenant made him uninteresting, so they should compensate for that. I don't want another movie about an android and his doings.

"but instead disappear and have a post credit scene with the weyland CEO making a message"

They could go with THAT, having David being the ONE who is Running the Company without the Humans being aware is something that i would NOT have Ruled Out.  Maybe the Destruction that we saw on Earth was because of a EVENT like the End of Modern World in the TERMINATOR Franchise.

You have Synthetics, who we have seen can become Sentient, we have it that Synthetics through their own WILL had Created the AUTONS and so with Humans you have 3 SPECIES that could be ALL Fighting for Control of the Earth that had lead to the Armageddon like Scene we saw at the END of Alien Resurrection.

And to reveal David after this as the one who has ORCHESTRATED it all could be something they could Explore... but i just DONT think we would see any Continuation of his Story or a Continuation after AR.

Thanks for the Bump!

I missed this Topic ;)

I think there has to be one of TWO Conclusions to Davids Story.

1) HUBRIS: And so David is KILLED by ONE of his OWN Creations, be that the Xenomorph or another Species he Creates who Rebel/Betray him (maybe USE the Xenomorph on him).

2) Redemption: And so David will Perform a Act that will either Save Humanity (maybe from his Creations) or to Save another Creation of his.

"Prediction - David does in fact end up being the Space Jockey in Alien"

To be Fair i am drawn to this Conclusion also.... or that it would be a Creation of Davids that ENDS UP in that Chair!  Ridley Scott had said the NEXT Installment would NOT be about the Xenomorph, it would be about A.I (RS also sees that A.I does-not have to be Purely Mechanical) and more so about WHAT KIND of a World that David would Create!

This Leads me to THINK that David would Evolve those Human Embryos into a Superior Humanoid Species... which could become his HUBRIS.  However we also cant RULE-OUT that a Synthetic will PLAY a Role in the Xenomorph, as RS has said that the Xenomorph is NOT as Mechanical Yet, it has some Evolving to go before we get to LV-426

We know the Xenomorph can lead to Genetic Memory Transfer we have seen this with Ripley 8, and so we maybe CANT RULE OUT that David would Sacrifice himself to INDEED Create the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph and that HIS (Davids) SOUL will be Passed onto into the Xenomorphs Consciousness. He would IMMORTALIZE HIMSELF within the Xenomorph.

And so i would NOT go and Rule this out......... so David End could be from either HUBRIS, REDEMPTION or SACRIFICE (to Enable his Master Plan).

The ONLY PROBLEM we have to look at is the SPACE JOCKEY SIGNAL... this seems to be a WARNING, and a Warning ONLY to a Species who is the Same as WHO the Space Jockey will eventually be.

The Purpose of doing this TOPIC was to try and give some Reason for WHY the Engineers had TURNED their Attention to the Horrors of LV-223 and the MURAL rather than to CREATE LIFE like Humans.

I think there are NUMBER of Flaws behind a PLOT where these Engineers had SOLELY Constructed the Outposts on LV-223 to Create a Organism like the Deacon or Xenomorph to USE on Earth against Humans.

Especially IF those Engineers wanted to RECLAIM the Earth back at some point and START AGAIN.

The Sacrificial Scene had SHOWN the stuff that Engineer had Drank would Dissolve and Break Down/Apart the Engineer and so he would be DEAD but his DNA would be what would SEED the World/Evolve the Basic Life on said WORLD.   Well if thats the CASE then Dropping down URNS of this STUFF would be more Effective at Destroying Life on a Planet and then seeing from this NEW LIFE in its IMAGE start to Evolve/Begin.

There are those STAR MAPS on Earth, are they Pointing to LV-223? or are they Indicating say Planet 4 and so Holloway and Dr Shaw had taken the Prometheus to the WRONG PLACE?

If the Maps are pointing towards LV-223 and bare in Mind they have been Shown on Earth for at least 35'000 Years, then we have to ASK as to WHY!

*Where some Engineers trying to WARN us about this Place, but WHY would they WARN about a Place 33'000 Years before the Engineers intended to USE the Black Goo on us?

*Had the Engineers left them as a TRAP so that ONE DAY we would go to LV-223 and get Ourselves into CHAOS/DEATH?  But had they had so more Foresight 33'000 Years prior to when they Intended to BRING DEATH to us that they would leave Clues to LV-223 as a TRAP in case their Plans in Thousands of Years when to POT?

Neither makes much Sense..............

Maybe it was a Fail-Safe just in Case, but then WHY would they INVITE us to the Place, well Leave Clues if this Place would be a HAZARD to us should we EVER go and Discover the Place?

it makes more Sense to me IF we see that LV-223 had some other PURPOSE before some Engineers had began to Dabble/Experiment with the DNA/Genetics of a Organism that the Deacon/Neomorph and Xenomorph can TRACE their Ancestral Roots too.

I also think we have to Wonder was there MORE to these Experiments than to Merely go and Create a KILLING MACHINE?

We have seen W-Y and USM try to Obtain and USE the Xenomorph for its Bio-Weapons Division and FAIL and IF they had Managed to Contain the Organisms, then WHAT is the USE really?

I think trying to Obtain and Experiment with the DNA and Traits would be more Beneficial!  And when we look at Ripley 8 then she could be ULTIMATELY the Ideal Bio-Weapon a Superior Human a SUPER SOLIDER. 

But to then go and Create/Clone many Ripley 8's could give you the Perfect Marine... there is that HUBRIS of them Turning against YOU.  And then you have the Genetic Memory of Ripley, you would want to ERASE/SUPPRESS that.

And so IF the Engineers were thinking of SIMILAR then this makes more Sense about the Horrors/Mural on LV-223.  When looking at what RS has said about the Engineers it seemed that they was MORE interested in Seeding Life on Worlds and Trying to Increase their LIFE SPANS and like Weyland looking for that way to LIVE FOR EVER....

But YES at some point those Engineers became Obsessed/Interested in what they had Began to do on LV-223 Thousands of Years ago (Mural) but i dont think having it that they BEGAN this because they was Pissed Off cus we say KILLED the Space Jesus, and so it was a Act of Revenge... as well DROPPING the Sacrificial Goo would have done the Trick.

I think it would be INTERESTING to explore a Deeper Reason to WHY they would be Involved in such HORRORS and WHEN did this all FIRST BEGIN.

As Purely as a WAY to KILL OFF our Species after we UPSET them 2000+ Years ago, just does-not seem to make Sense as far as to NEED to Create the Deacon etc.

I think it depends on HOW you take the Broader Plot....

*How many Engineer Worlds are there?  Are they in Peace and Harmony with each other, or are some IN or had been in Conflict with each other?

*How many Species have the Engineers Created?  What is the Technological Level of these Species?  Are they or HAVE they been in Conflict with the Engineers?

*Are there other Species/Races in the Galaxy that the Engineers had NOTHING to do with as far as Creation/Evolution?  Have the Engineers had any Conflict with these?

*WHO had Created the Engineers and where are THEY?  And what Relationship did they have with the Engineers, did they have any Conflict with their own Creations? (Engineers)

So YES there is SCOPE for Conflict within the Franchise, as YES just seeing the Engineers going around and Seeding Worlds and Vising their Creations where EVERYTHING is all Happy and everyone is KEEPING IN LINE with the PLAN etc...

All we seem to KNOW is the Engineers (in the PAST) had became UNDONE with their own CREATION/EXPERIMENTS on LV-223, the Horrors they Created could NOT be Controlled and WELL that seemed to be the END of those on LV-223. But we know there are other Engineers in the Galaxy, and well what we are shown is that David has USED the Horrors that BEFELL the Engineers on LV-223, and he had used the Black Goo on Planet 4 to KILL those Engineers and Experimented/Evolved their Horrors to Create a HORROR that could be a THREAT to the Engineers Existence and their Creations (in the FUTURE)

But SURELY that should NOT be all there is to it!  I think its LIMITED if the Engineers only Conflicts and Threats had ONLY came from Humanity getting out of HAND and then the Horrors they Created on LV-223 some Thousands of Years ago.  And their Future Threats coming from Humanity and getting their Hands on the Engineers Technology and Bio-Weapons and from David and the Horrors he has Created.

But EVERYTHING ELSE in the Engineers History etc has been ROSEY!...... Nope i dont BUY that ;)

Ridley Scott referred to the Engineers in Prometheus as Fallen Angels, this implies that either their Brothers are NOT Fallen, or their Creators are NOT Fallen.  And so it implies that those Engineers on LV-223 had been UP-TO something VERY NAUGHTY and against the WILL of the Hierarchy or are USING the Creation Tool/Fire in ways it was either NEVER Permitted or in WAYS that it SHOULD NOT be used.

Can de make a match during this days guys ?

"Getting stuck with 'fallback' Charlie Holloway would be one. Elizabeth's first love is God and Charlie has other ideas..."

There is something of a Rider Haggard character in Elizabeth (daughter living in South Africa with a priest) but also I thought about my daughter. I always told her she would marry an older more serious man because she was never a "chick that hung out with the cool guys," There is an alternative an opposite and Charlie was the opposite. 

Much later there is a conversation between Elizabeth and David about why she was so vulnerable, so many people who do not fit end up being in control and in a bad way, it gives them power and I felt part of Elizabeth temptation was making this shy slightly awkward person who had delusions of destiny ... be provided with ALL the answers and ALL the power.

Your idea of the early meeting appeals to me because I personally like to write symphonically (callbacks, echos, investing) rather than "hey we need a monster now." I use to love the way "Person of Interest." did that finding the original story and motives. 

When I did a rewrite of the journey she makes to the denouement I realised I could echo her time with her father in SA much more and what the future might hold juxtaposing the two. Indeed David who is drawn in sees the entire fall. 

The advantage of flashforward (and back) in this story, is you end making the reader wonder like Elizabeth,' what is real?' and of course there is no morality as we know it, just function or the failure to do so. 

He shouldn't die, but instead disappear and have a post credit scene with the weyland CEO making a message (takes place after alien 4/resurrection), then we cut to the other side with the message being sent. the camera slowly zooms out revealing david 

"But you could THROW in a Curve-ball of sorts and have the Engineers being the Slaves of this Progenitor Race at some Point in the DISTANT Past."

This is good. The Engineers being the Gods of the Galaxy doesn't excite me. They are plain boring. Seed a world, hibernate, rinse repeat......yawn.    Now, an Engineer rebellion on a hundred alien worlds?! Sign me up!

 "...she spent a great deal of time roaming Africa with her father..."

I'd like to read where her father, while attended a symposium in Cairo, meets Peter Weyland.  Weyland is touring the planet showing off his latest creation David 3....An eight your old Elizabeth waits in a special room for the children of the attending. She escapes the room, only to run into David 3.....

( Heck even a young Meredith could be at this symposium?  She's one year older than Shaw.... )

"  1) Explain why she falls. "

Getting stuck with 'fallback' Charlie Holloway would be one. Elizabeth's first love is God and Charlie has other ideas...

@MonsterZero

I agree with you about Ripley. There is no let-up it's relentless and having lived with the nightmare for so long dying in 3 was a relief. 

If you are (or were) going to take Elizabeth on you have to do two things:-

1) Explain why she falls. 

2) Explain why she is vulnerable. 

My own view is she spent a great deal of time roaming Africa with her father and that made her detached separate and unlike many whose parents were religious she does not react against him she reacts with him. In her own way, she began to replace her mother as his companion and then he dies which is a really big deal (in my world). She idolises him and looks after him in one sense. That's the same with Charlie except Charlie is a child and then to make it complicated she is barren. 

So what's left let's find out why I lost my parents and I am barren?

By the end of the film, she is completely screwed. Mankind's parents hate them and she is no longer barren because of some weird stuff they did. That's got to be rich pickings.

I enjoyed what you said about not having it gift wrapped. When Star Trek does a God resolution it does not matter how convoluted the plot it resolves in, well it was my mother or a jailer/fraudster or a deep space probe. I prefer something where we are even less important than we think we are and demonstrate an endless capacity for getting the wrong end of the stick. So then we can think what if ???  

That can ONLY mean!

But on a Serious Note to me the Fresco Creature has like Mandibles like this The Predator Concept

What we can Gather from WHAT we have had Ridley Scott say is that the Sacrificial Scene was HOW they Seed Worlds, it does-not have to be Earth, when we look at their Navigation Maps they can Access other Galaxies.  After Alien Covenant we had RS say the Engineers will RETURN to Planet 4.

And so from this Information i think its UNLIKELY that the Engineers would ONLY go and occupy Planet 4 and LV-223 and also UNLIKELY that the Earth was the ONLY such World they have Seed/Evolved and Interacted with Intelligent Life.

so in Context to the PLOT then i think there is within the Franchise Various Intelligent Species, are they ALL merely Creations of the Engineers, are some Species also those who Created the Engineers... so YES the Door is OPEN to introduce Various other Races/Worlds.

"This would be like finding out there is no God"

I think its OPEN as to IF we would have seen a GOD within the Franchise, it certainly seems the Engineers are NO GODS.... the only Godlike Connection they would have would be IF say Mankind had Evolved Apes to like Planet of the Apes and the Scientist who did this would Indoctrinate those Apes that THEY (The Scientist) are THEIR (Evolved Apes) Creators and Gods.

So Holloway was RIGHT.... and so Humans with the Engineers Tools/Knowledge could become Creators/Gods just as the Engineers saw themselves maybe as.

Ridley Scott had teased a Question... about that if the Engineers are our Creators/Forerunners then WHAT makes it Possible for Worlds to be able to Host the Biology in the First Place.... he asked WHERE is the BIG GUY...  could this be a Indication of Race/Being or Beings who are ABOVE the Engineers?

some Fans have Speculated that the Mural is a Representation of the Engineers God and Creator, their LORD and they USE the Blood of their LORD to Seed Worlds.  Well there was a Draft that Mentions this but this is SURELY just a Fan Edit.

Fans are looking at the Cruciform Pose of the Mural and Connecting that to the Depictions of Christ and putting 2+2 to make 5 (in thinking this implies GOD).

CHRIST as depicted on the Cross has TWO MAIN Functions of Worship.

1) It is to Acknowledge and Celebrate his SACRIFICE for Mankind.

2) That by Believing in HIM and Following his Ways/Teachings will allow us to ALSO have a Resurrection as he had done.

This is WHY i came to a Theory that maybe the Mural is to Celebrate some Organisms DNA that the Engineers had been Sacrificing (to Create what is in the URNS) and that maybe they saw this as either a Pseudo Resurrection for them, or they saw its DNA as the Next Stage of Evolution for LIFE.

Looking at the PLOT at Large then it seems the Engineers had tried to Evolve themselves to become Superior and Live for Longer but they YEARNED to become IMMORTAL.

It seemed the Engineers had Seeded Worlds with the Creation Tool (Sacrificial Goo) for a LONG LONG TIME.... before they Began to Experiment and Create such Horrors like the Deacon, Xenomorph, Neomorph and the LIKE.

To Create these to PURELY USE against Creations and Worlds you deem a Disappointment or Threat of have Displeased you.... is NOT going to be the Most Efficient Method..... The Sacrificial Goo would be a more IDEAL kind of Reset Switch.  The Black Goo (LV-223) that can Lead to Horrors never mind using Organisms like the Deacon/Xenomorph is a OVERKILL its the NUKE Option it would do the JOB but it would take a LONG TIME before you can Reclaim the Land/World.

so they would have to have some Sinister Agenda they Decided upon, or saw Engineer/Human DNA as NOT being what LIFE should be, or they had a Sadistic Outlook and Hatred towards Humanity that they wanted to INFLICT the Worse Kind of Suffering on us.

I think the Progenitor to the DNA in the Urns/Mural on LV-223 is something the Engineers had NOT gone and Created but something they Encountered.  And so they SAW what this could do to them, and SAW some Potential/Perfection in this Progenitor.

But you could THROW in a Curve-ball of sorts and have the Engineers being the Slaves of this Progenitor Race at some Point in the DISTANT Past.

Either-way i think it would be Interesting to Introduce the Starbeast (a Organism that Predates both LV-223/LV-426).

"Elizabeth earthbound suffers from 'perfect father' syndrome making all the wrong choices and falls in love with a man who is still a boy. The boy plays with fire and out of that emerges the story. "

Okay, that is a great description. Writers don't get paid enough.

"To your question is she not merely symbolic. In my world that's for the reader to decide..."

Guess I'm trying to avoid deciding anything, rather have it gift wrapped with a nice bow. lol! 

"...a broken destiny child?"

I'd like to read more of this early character development. Just what broke her? Some event that led to her infertility? Ripley really didn't need a backstory ( imho ) Shaw is really begging for one.

@MonsterZero

Prometheus The Movie.

All the characters are symbolic. I have met lots of Fifield's and dozens of Milburns. For mankind to take all its foibles on a search for its creators is entirely right.

The Furious Gods

However, I changed all of that in my work and reduced Part 1 down to two human characters, two sides of an Isosceles Triangle, Shaw and Weyland. 

Everyone else merely supports those two. Meredith is crucial for Weyland just as Charlie is crucial for Shaw. 

In the third act of Part 1, the major storytelling point emerges though it's not clear until deep into the second act of Part 11. "What about me you made me why and excuse me but I have a POV." and David and the Engineer meet at the crescendo of the movie and one part of the conversation understands what's going on between them and the other does not but they are both WRONG, wrong about the facts, not necessarily their actions.

Elizabeth survives all this but does she? To your question is she not merely symbolic. In my world that's for the reader to decide and as I have said before everyone has a different view of when she died, even if she died at all.    

Elizabeth earthbound suffers from 'perfect father' syndrome making all the wrong choices and falls in love with a man who is still a boy. The boy plays with fire and out of that emerges the story. 

In one sense Elizabeth is the second coming (not that there was a first coming in my story). She has that dreadful hubris of the destiny child. I was meant to do this?

So Yes she is highly symbolic she as Damon said is our Proxy for the story, and what happens if our creators, as David says in the introduction to AC, are false Gods which is the most existential horror of all. Who better to send into all that than a broken destiny child?

What about another destiny child. Lawrence of Arabia changed his name to T E Shaw. This was the man that began his professional life in the middle east and discovered Hittite reliefs with fascinating inscriptions and went on to write the seven pillars of wisdom. Maybe Elizabeth had more in common with Lawrence than a certain robot. Was it all coincidence?  

Isn't Elizabeth's motivation really what any religious person is trying to realize? Any true believer would gladly follow her path. Heck anyone with a morsel of curiosity would also. I'm starting to think she is more a symbolic character. I can understand the change of direction. David was the obvious choice and it's probably why they went rock climber with Daniels.

Without Charlie, David, her father ( and probably a dozen other men), she'd be lost ( imho ). The anti-Ripley.

I'd dump the Charlie character. Shaw would be the leader of the dig.....Just something to make her the protagonist.

Guess what I'm trying to say is: Shaw is a relatable character and most heroes are unrelatable...Ripley / Han Solo / Kirk / etc....( I'm not doing any of the actions those characters are)....I don't have a good feeling what archetype Shaw is. It's confusing even thinking about her.

@MonsterZero

She is the second string child and does not want to be left out even though she does not believe in the mission. By her overhearing the conversation between David and Weyland, itself a damning indictment of him as a parent, once again she is being overlooked. It's almost as if the "I wish you were a boy." that so many girls have suffered is played out but so much worse. She actually idolises her father and yet he idolises his creation. David is what drives Weyland Marie as he calls her is just another human. Her relationship is love/hate. 

For me, this triangle (an equilateral one) is an internal metaphor for the larger story. David is function, the Engineers of the Moon are function. Some are chosen others disregarded and like Meredith and David they all rebel. 

Very few can see their way to the true purpose and hold to it. The creature by the waterfall holds to its purpose as do all those who follow him whereas the pilot of the derelict is overlooked like Meredith and rebels. (Sound familiar the favoured sacrifice).

Charlie finds the truth in the final seconds and finally knows what to do, so does Meredith and of course Janek, Chance and Ravel. 

The real key is will Elizabeth finally realise what is going on .. everything hangs by a thread on her decisions.  

Risk reward of the characters, especially Vickers, is intriguing. The main ones are all pretty obvious ( immortality, answers, fame, fortune...)

What's in it for Vickers? She's going to get it all ( Weyland Vickers Corp) no matter what. Why take this risk? Make sure the old man won't change the will? Does she actually care for her dad and want to protect him? I can't believe that.

Maybe the Engineers sent probes to all the planets, turned over every rock and found NOTHING. Just nice plants and basic life. I would be very disappointed if we don't find advanced intelligent life in the galaxy. This would be like finding out there is no God. 

If we Connect to AC then we see that Humanity has come Closer to Immortality than the Engineers with the Creation of A.I as in David as he is more Immortal than the Engineers and the Further Irony that HE would Perfect the Experiments of the Engineers to Create the Xenomorph with which the DNA of this Creation via a Series of Events that lead to the Ripley 8 Clone.... has gone to show that Humanity using Davids Creation has managed to gain the Resurrection the Engineers could NOT via Ripley 8

Ripley 8 becoming what the Engineers had WANTED to Achieve but Failed.

I think its Difficult to say with WHO/HOW the Engineers would Worship anything or anyone, the Premise of Prometheus was to indicate that its LIKELY all our Mythos and Religion about Gods/Creators had came from our Interaction with the Engineers.

What we saw was these Majestic Looking Demi-Gods who looked like they had been Cast from Marble, their Skin had a almost Beluga Whale like Texture/Gloss.

As we MOVED on and looking at Comments it seems our Beluga Skin Engineers are either Engineers Evolving themselves this way or a Sub-Creation.

The Engineers like the Ancient Pharaohs liked to BUILD many Monuments and Murals that are Dedicated to their Greatness and Accomplishments and so they take a LOT of Pride in what they have achieved but does that mean they WORSHIP anything?  I get the Impression their Culture/Religion is more CULT WORSHIP like.  And so they LIKELY would Worship things and EVENTS of Great Importance to their Evolution, and Advancement but also their Creations.

So the Hall of Heads is Very Important to them, where as on LV-223 we see a Worship and Acknowledgment of NOT only the Engineers but the Horrors that are Related to the Mural/Fresco.  But we KNOW so  Little about them as we have NOT YET gone to see what the other 4+ Temple Mounds would Contain.

If we go by the Pitch by Jon Spaights (Alien 01 The Master Narrative) it gives the Impression the Engineers were NOT TOO much Different to Mankind in their Very Distant Past, but they had become something of a CULT that would SHUN certain things (like Pleasures, Taboo), they became Interested in Attaining Longer Lives and Immortality.

So who knows IF they had Religion and Beliefs similar to what we had in the PAST (and still do), a LOT may depend on their ORIGINS..... which is UNKNOWN.

So maybe they Worshiped their OWN GODS in the Past? But it seems LIKELY they had become more of  CULT where the 10 Hall of Heads Guys are their Founders.

But as we on Earth have had some CULTS and Belief Systems that Worship things that are NOT like 100% Human (or like) then maybe the Engineers could have such CULTS too, maybe those on LV-223 are like the Devil Worshipers or Illuminati or maybe this is something that the HALL OF HEADS guys had Began?

So maybe they or SOME of them had became Interesting in some Sadistic Practices and too a Interest into the Horrors on LV-223, but i feel its MORE to do with seeing something they had Encountered could CHANGE LIFE to something that is TOTALLY different to the Creation, Evolution and Seeding of Worlds that they had been doing.

It really is QUITE OPEN to try and Figure Out as to WHAT the HELL they was up to on LV-223 as FAR as WHEN did this all Begin and WHY.

The Broader Plot seems to be about CREATION and EVOLUTION and the Engineers going about and Challenging themselves to see what they CAN go and Create and then Evolve, which also includes them Evolving themselves, to Enhance and Prolong themselves.  And i think IF we look more Closer at Home and to Ourselves i am sure that as well as Conquering the Stars, and Trying to FIX our Home (or Find New Homes) i am sure The Greatest Achievement would be to Genetically Engineer a way where we DO-NOT Fall Foul to Genetic Defects, gain Immunity to Disease and Ailments and where we can Extend the Functionality/Longevity of our Bodies/Organs.... but ULTIMATELY we are MORTAL.

And so to Transcend Beyond Mortality would be the GREATEST Achievement and you can Expect that this is SOMETHING the Engineers had tried in the Past, and Likely Failed, and so IF they Encounter a Organism that gives some Glimmer of Hope at gaining some kind of Immortality or Resurrection  then having the Engineers becoming Obsessed with THIS ORGANISM would make Sense.

Peter Weyland thought he would MEET his Makers so they can GRANT HIM more Life, Gods Never Die.... the Engineer seemed UPSET at what Weyland Wanted the full Dialog the Engineer was to reply as to WHY he (Weyland) should be Granted this.  So the Engineer could take OFFENSE if they had been TRYING to By-Pass their OWN MORTALITY and LV-223 had became a Place they maybe TRIED to Achieve his but FAILED... so seeing a Human who is DEMANDING to HAVE what the Engineers had NOT even Achieved themselves would be Highly Offensive to that Engineer.

So maybe some Engineers saw these Starbeasts as being WORTHY of their Resurrection and that the Engineers must NOT be as they could NOT use or Figure Out as to HOW the Starbeast was able to Reincarnate itself.  The Engineers may have seen the Starbeast and its Genetics as being Worthy and Greater than their own Ancestors DNA and so a CULT had Formed....

They could NOT Yield the Properties of the Starbeast to Gain a Resurrection, but they LIKELY saw Greatness in what the Genetics of this Organism has, and Growing Displeased with their Creations... they saw that the DNA of the Starbeast is the Logical Step of Evolution in Honor of this GREAT CREATURE and while they could NOT go and USE this DNA etc to Attain Reincarnation for themselves they could USE it to Condemn/Damn their worthless Creations (Humanity)

He looks rather a lot like this carving of a duck, to be found at Seville Cathedral...

I think one way the Alien could be biomechanical is...

We all notice how tube and wire-like structures are prominent all over the Alien's body such as the head here.

We see such tube like structures along the length of its head that mostly have ends somewhere around the mouth. In this example we know the Alien has a powerful bite force and these pipes look like they're helping such functions. Plus the appearance and form of these pipes give me a feeling that they are working like a Hydraulic system. (Hydraulics are mechanical systems that utilise liquid in a pipe that can be sucked and pushed by a pump so as to extend or retract a component on the other end of the pipe basically) Seriously the tubes and whatever those junctions are look an awful lot like a hydraulic system.

Here on Earth animals are composed of tiny but numerous cells that join hands to perform specific actionsm Animals have cellular muscle for movement but the alien may use this non cellular mechanical system for that purpose at least in some functions, pretty sure they obviously are composed of cells too but cellular components work alongside mechanical units which are absent in animals. This would mean the Alien is in some of these mechanical areas more simple and less complex in design from animals but that may not mean worse. Humans don't build machines that lift heavier weights than elephants with cells obviously but with simpler and larger components. Some fusion of pipes and pumps of a tow crane may be less than the complicated workings of the millions of cells of an elephants trunk but which is stronger? 

Hydraulics probably aren't the only mechanical systems present in the Alien and the purpose of movement may not be the only life function performed with mechanics. Even their mode of reproduction; the egg doesn't get fertilised inside the host, an embryo directly gets implanted inside. There is something that feels very industrial and mechanical about that. It feels rather constructed than 'born'. All this and that may be one of many ways an alien is a fusion of life and machine.

This got me thinking, animals are like that, fully cellular because in view of the beginning of evolution from a tiny microscopic piece of life, we had to start from the bottom and work our way up to here by building up our numbers and complexity. But the millions of cells of various distinct groups integrated to form a man lifting a load is done by some slabs of metal covering some pipes and gears and yes machines can be complex too but nowhere even near, not even close, to how an organism is composed. But we don't build them that complex because we don't need to. The organisms were complex because they had to evolve to more advanced forms naturally. Would that be a hint to the theory that the alien had at least some sort of intervention in its evolution or existence as a species? That would make them even more akin to machines.

@MonsterZero

Vickers & Red Shirts

When I was organising the narrative I dropped five characters. As for the rest, the three pilots banter was given a little more continuity, two characters, but different ones, are the plot device one is a homage to Vietnam/Aliens and the other reminds us of Vickers manipulations and the first world war English officer class. Furdik gives us a link with Yutani and supports Elizabeth.

I agree with you about Vickers she was entirely different she is really important to the story and that's why Janek appears at the briefing and essentially supports her arc all the way through to her different ending. The love scene with Janek is meant to echo what's happening in the Pyramid and shine a light on how it feels to have a robot for a "brother." I also think more from Vickers helps underwrite her genuine warning to her father and conflicted feelings about him. "You had so much grace..." is such a great line about watching one's parents decay and  I began to realise one of the reasons I was drawn in by this story is because that is something which I was dealing with.

Peter Weyland's refusal to grow old and to attempt to attain more life at all costs (mankind expendable no other considerations) is a metaphor of our times and where we end up going should attempt to show us we are on the wrong path altogether and both Vickers and Charlie in death see a glimpse of the truth that is to come.

Thanks for the heads up on the spelling sometimes a keystroke is misplaced when you make a change and you miss the random placement and I am glad you like the stuff with Peter.

You would think the Engineers are way beyond worshipping anything other than themselves? But then again...Looking at humanity I can see their flaws they passed on to us.....And that makes them incredibly dangerous.

Peter F. Hamilton's Salvation series deals with something along these lines.

Love it.

Really like the opening with Peter.

I'd like to read more about Meredith Vickers...Maybe a snippet from her teen years when she encountered a 'crushing' defeat ( from daddy or a boyfriend or school ). Something to wrap her story arc.

I feel there are 4 characters I care about. Weyland, Vickers, David and Shaw. The rest feel like red shirts.

Keep up the great work!

Typo chapter 3: 'Whilst they weae not picking up any signs of life,'