Comments (Page 85)

If David had given Elizabeth the black goo drink. I think that might have worked better...More of a Ash angle. But he gave it to a nondescript character ( Charlie )   .... and the audience ( including myself ) responded with a big *meh*.....Hope he turns into a monster was the thought! Could of saved some screen time by just impregnating Shaw and get on with it.

David observing her C-section ( remotely ) would have been cool.

David's ambiguity is unsettling ...Do we like him? Or... Is he antagonist or protagonist?

Bishop and Ash are how it's done.

Peter Weyland is all powerful and I see little reason to take Charlie or Elizabeth along......There must have been a reason. Why would he share the glory with anyone? David and Jackson were all he really needed. If you told me where to locate the gold of the Incas, I'm hiring Indiana Jones and heading out without you.

I'd make Elizabeth, Weylands daughter. Gives a very good reason why she and Charlie are aboard. Vickers could remain as CEO ( unrelated to Weyland )

Peter has given Elizabeth everything wealth, education, power ......and in return she has left him without a grandchild. 

...But she has finally made good. Delivering to her father....LV-223.

*They NEVER EVER would Expect that their OWN would EVER do such a Thing!

.....

Yeah, Planet 4 is probably not a military target and doesn't offer much for pirates. Just a higher learning center. I live near a military base and don't expect any of the aircraft to dive bomb the runway.

I could see asteroid/comet protection for when they hibernate.

@BigDave

Charlie is caught up in all the main themes of the story and underpins more storytelling points than in the movie. 

1) In order that we understand the jeopardy of the Juggernaut reaching earth be shows the reader what would happen. The description of what is happening and what we experience is much more intimate and darker. There is also a scene where David, who rushes back from the Juggernaut too late, studies Charlies remains in the morgue and explains to the reader what was happening to Charlie. The irony of course is that he works out that Charlie was in the process of reconstruction, an upgrade something he has eight of so it is much like your graphic. 

2) His decision to reject that pathway and remain who he is through sacrifice then bleeds back into the other main theme and one that film watchers have known from the beginning that willing sacrifice is at the very core of creation. His penitential gesture as he dies plays right into the end of the story the moment when Elizabeth finally receives her final revelation.

Elizabeth

As a barren woman who is enunciated by the Mutagen but has a corrupted birth with Charlie's child, she is beginning her journey as Lilith. Like Lilith, she is the embodiment of femininity, strength and rebellion and when she arrives at Eden (though it is never called that, though that is its function) she believes she encounters Lilith and in one sense she does and believes herself to be Eve and because of what has happened to her she does have the power to restart creation. How the Mutagen affects her journey is for the reader but the essential point is she is lost and she has no idea what is the right course because her Abrahamic God does not exist, so where does she turn what is she supposed to do.

How will she find her waterfall moment and if she arrives there what should she do, because, in the end, God is Beyond Our Understanding? 

I have not Read you Work yet (i MUST though) but i am drawn to you going for what RS had said when he had said that Holloway was going to End Up like Fifield who in Turn would End Up like the Sacrificial Engineer.

Its a Case of in your Story is the Stage after Breakdown the same as the Sacrificial Engineer in the Waterfall?  Or Reconstructs like in the Concept above?

Dr Shaw maybe believes as she is DYING either she knows this Process will lead to her Breaking Down etc, or she thinks she is DYING so if i USE the Gift/Tool i could maybe CREATE a New Eden of LIFE from my Death?

But in Reality she is NOT Permitted to USE the Gift and what becomes of her Sacrifice is a ABOMINATION?

In Reality though the Pilot Chair Props are about the Same Size, and so our Prometheus Space Jockey is SMALLER than the our Space Jockey from ALIEN.

But this still means the 1979 Space Jockey would FIT in the same Chair.

Ridley Scott said about how Humans come in all Different Races... then WHY cant the Engineers?  Well i also say that IF we as Humans come in Different Sizes then WHY cant the  Engineers?

So our 7ft-8ft Basket Ball Players in the Engineers Society could mean we can have 9-10ft Engineers, and so if they SHOW us a 9-10ft Engineer who has a SUIT that FITS them and maybe we Accept something Happened to Cause this 10ft Suited Space Jockey to SWELL UP then indeed THAT would make the Scale to the Space Jockey more Accepting.

And so i would like to think the Space Jockey is a 10ft Entity/Being who maybe has Grown out of the Chair a Little (for some Reason) or they could give us a 12ft Being instead.   And if so then this BEING would be Best Shown to be ABOVE the Engineers in the Creation Layer Cake or another Sub-Creation of the Engineers.

I do Suspect that Ridley Scott would maybe thrown a Curve-ball it is David or a Sub-Creation of his though... but we MAY NEVER get to know or see that anymore.

Yes the Intention was for a  27ft Tall Space Jockey but this FAILS for the same Reasons that our Engineers in Prometheus are Plain to see they are NOT 10ft.

Ridley Scott like to use Actual Props/Sets and he does things to Create a Illusion of Scale that are UNDONE in other Shots... Example is

Using Camera Angles and having Ian Whyte (Engineer) Standing on a Platform thats at HIGHER LEVEL than Fassbender and Pearce are gives the Illusion that the Engineer is much more Taller. (seem like just under 9ft, when in Reality he was just over 7ft).

The Intended Height and Acceptance of the Space Jockey before the Prequels was 15ft (i actually think it was 13ft) and so when we STARTED on the Prequels our Engineers were INTENDED to be 12-15ft but Ridley Scott would NOT go and USE any kind of Effects to Create that Reality.

"it wouldn't make sense timeline wise and there were xenos found on other planets"

Well if we go by Video Games, and Comics then YEAH!

In Context to the Movies though, then it is Plausible and Intended to show us that before those Egg that David had Created on Planet 4 then there is NO other Xenomorphs in the Galaxy.  This comes from the PROBLEM of making it that David had Created the Xenomorph.

Is the Derelict the ONLY place there are Eggs (apart from Planet 4 and in Future maybe Origae-6?) well i would say if we ONLY go by the Movies then it makes SENSE that LV-426 was the ONLY place were they are Left....  (Games and Comics and Novels can Contradict the Franchise).

Regarding to a Synthetic being the FINAL PIECE of the JIGSAW that makes the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph, the PROBLEM we have then is HOW do you get to Thousands of Eggs?

They could maybe have it WHERE we see David (Space Jockey) would Chest Burst the FIRST of the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorphs who then gets down to the Cargo Hold (maybe the Acid Hole Origins) and then LAYS all of those Eggs.

But then you would have to ASK as to WHY and WHERE was David or the Space Jockey going with a SHIP that has NOTHING in the Cargo Hold!

The KICKER is to WHY is the Ship on LV-426?  If the Engineers would leave Planet 4 to go to Earth then what are the Chances it Passes LV-426?   If the Ship would First go to Origae-6 then thats even LESS likely to WHY it would NEED to be Near LV-426.

So the Logical Answer has to be that....

*The Ship was heading to LV-223 with the Eggs, before the Pilot was Infected and ONLY got as FAR as LV-426.

Which would mean the Xenomorph of Davids is Evolved to Bio-Mechanical prior.

*The Ship is leaving LV-223 with those Bio-Mechanical Eggs but ONLY gets as FAR as LV-426.

This seems the MOST Logical Explanation which would imply the Xenomorph becomes Evolved/Bio-Mechanical on LV-223 and is also MASS PRODUCED.

Yeah i think in Context to the PLOT then it would seem that the Engineers are just a Sub-Creation of something or someone ELSE we have NOT yet Seen?

Or Regardless this could be WHERE the Engineers had Originated from... this does-not mean that they have NOT gone and SET-UP other Colonies on other Worlds.

Regarding as to HOW Easy it was for David to do the Damage.. well its a Plot Convenience.  And the Writers seem to NOT give much Thought to Explain anything to make Sense.

The Covenant Crew had been Surprised that the Planet was NEVER picked up on any Surveys, this could IMPLY the Planet is HIDDEN by something, and so we are talking a Cloaking Tech more like STEALTH than say Klingon Birds of Prey ;)

There could be Technology on the Planet that is able to do this.... (Implied in the Earlier Drafts)

The Docking Scorpion Ship is Described as Border Control and so its likely that David was able to do something to gain Entry to Planet 4 (they seem to have NO kind of Intercept Technology but i can Explain this after).  We see that the Juggernaught seemed to Head to the Hanger where it was MET with the Docking Ship which then seemed to be Attempting to Dock with the Juggernaught.  You would think that the Docking Ship should be able to TAKE FULL CONTROL over the Juggernaught or Disable its Ability to Drop its Cargo.

The Engineers were SHOCKED to see the Ship had BEGAN to Bombard them... this Implies the Following.

*They NEVER EVER would Expect that their OWN would EVER do such a Thing!

*The Juggernauts either are NOT Permitted and NEVER go to Planet 4 with any Cargo or..... the JUGGERNAUT has a Different ROLE than as a Bomber.

*The Docking Ship should be able to Deactivate the Ships, but somehow our David found away around this.

*The Engineers are so NAIVE that they Control and keep Eye on their Creations and it NEVER EVER would occur to them that WITHOUT the Help/Knowledge Passed by the Engineers then all their Creations remain at a Technological Level that Earth was Thousands of Years ago... and THUS what a HUBRIS that was for them!

I think the Last Point is a Valid one and maybe WHY they dont have Many Protective Measures because they ASSUME that ONLY their own Kind has the Technology to Traverse the Stars and their STEALTH TECH that Hides their World from being DETECTED is GOOD ENOUGH to Protect them.

Another Interesting thing is the Bombardment seemed to be HITTING some kind of Invisible Shield... but this FAILED..... a Explanation for this could be that David had learned the Engineers Tech/Software and was able to make a Virus/Hack that then would DEACTIVATE the Protective Systems.

This becomes a Problem if we look at the Deleted Scene and see the Hanger has Juggernaughts and we have to ASK.... WHY has David NOT gone to take them?

The Answer has to be they have been Deactivated... and the Logical Solution would be that the Destruction/Damage to the Scorpion Docking Ship had Rendered it USELESS and this SHIP is what is NEEDED in order to Activate the Juggernauts on that Planet... 

Of-course when we watch ONLY the Theatrical Cut, we cant Conclude there are other SHIPS on this World so we could ASSUME that David has NO options to Leave.

Yeah. Planet 4 is extremely underwhelming if it is their homeworld. Easily wiped out by a single juggernaut!?...No this was attempt to end the Engineers story line.

If they originated on planet 4,  then I'm okay with the understated design. 

> he Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

According to the official wiki, they are rougly 25 feet (8 meters) tall, and around 2 meters wide. I could very well see them being a failed sub-creation of the engineers that might have been used by david to try and create a "drone" to infect other worlds.

I personally dislike the idea that a species was directly involved with creating the engineers as it would contradict the previous 2 movies

Also to add, the space jockey cannot be david as it wouldn't make sense timeline wise and there were xenos found on other planets, which means that david had to infect other planets with the xenos first, and the fact that the ship has xeno eggs makes that unlikely. And the obvious height difference, i mean 

This image speaks for itself. However it could be an ai sent by david

I think the combination of both is going to happen, he uploads his AI into some server or the WY systems and then uses a facehugger to impregnate his former body. And thus we will get the classical xeno that we know. Or he uses parts of his andriod body to upgrade the xenos and task them with their goals, which is much more likely. Either way, i don't think he will truly "die" 

I think the creatures on planet 4/paradise are a sub-creation of the engineers, similar to humans and (possibly) the space jockeys. The real home(s) of the engineers probably have millions if not billions of cities, and most likely high defense. I mean, david was allowed there with his ship 100% undisturbed. And they "engineers" looked like they were waiting for someone to come back. I think that david and shaw were trying to find the home planet of the engineers but found planet4/paradise instead. I talked about this in other threads if you want to go into more details on the "sub creation"

In my revision, there is no trilobite but the embryo born of Elizabeth and Charlie's DNA the latter of which had been invaded by the Mutagen. What we do not know yet is the broader effect of the Mutagen on Elizabeth. Ridley indicated to Noomi in Sydney Elizabeth was dying of the mutagen acknowledging there were downstream consequences. If she 'lives' what might be the consequences?  

"She continued to kick the silt with her boots. All the certainties of her life had been shattered. Her faith lay in ruins. The only certainty: her parents had died empty, meaningless, deaths. She lowered her head and looked across the river and its two tributaries. It was time for her, too, to make a choice, to choose a course.

Her thoughts were ambitious, expansive; some would have said full of pretentious self-righteousness. To her, this was a sad desolate place where the Ritual of Creation had been abandoned. Yet she knew she had it within her to renew and restart the great work. That was why she had been brought to this place, why she had been returned from death; to remake Paradise."

If you chose to hold to the notion that going forward Michael and Noomi were co-leads then you can fulfil Noomi's wish to see what would happen if Elizabeth fell. It not only fits the narrative but it places her right at the epicentre of what the story is about what do you do if you have the power of creation within your hands. What can go wrong why does it go wrong and why were two barren lost characters brought to this place to find out the truth of what had happened. It might be in the lap of the Gods? 

I think what we see with Planet 4 is the Home to the Engineers, However this is maybe NOT the ONLY such Home, it is LIKELY the Engineers have been to MANY WORLDS and while they may have Seeded Humanoid Life on Many Worlds i do think the Engineers would also Populate other Worlds.

Could David had taken Dr Shaw to another WORLD? Maybe it Certainly is a Coincidence that Paradise is SO CLOSE to Earth.  But this was just for Plot Convenience to get more Humans to Arrive (The Covenant Ship).

The Reason that David had made this Journey is that Dr Shaw wanted to go to where the Engineer had Informed our David where he came from... which David had said we would call Paradise.  I think Fans seem to be Caught Up to think that Paradise is Heaven and so its where the IMMORTAL GODS would be.

But in Context to the Engineers Plot, even from Inception we are NOT dealing with a IMMORTAL RACE, a Race who wanted to Extend their Lives then YES... a Race who may want to become IMMORTAL then YES.

Something we to Consider is the Engineers (both LV-223 and Planet 4) are LIKELY to NOT be the TOP LAYER of the Creation Cake.

Planet 4 is maybe where the Engineers (or just those Planet 4 kind if they wish to Explore it Further) had Originated from.

Biblically then Paradise is the Location of the Garden of Eden, which is the Cradle of Civilization, it is a Walled City were Adam/Eve where Created and Watched Over by the Cherubim Angels.

And so in that Context then Paradise is NOT where GOD comes from or Resides. And so if WE come from the Engineers, then in the Mythos of Creation then its likely Planet 4 is where say Adam/Eve came from who could be the FIRST of the Engineers (Planet 4 kind).  And so those who Created the Engineers would come from somewhere ELSE.

Planet 4 has a LOT in Common with the Garden of Eden we seem to have a Planet where the Inhabitants are Confined to just a SINGLE Location... this CITY. Just as Adam/Eve were Confined to the Garden of Eden.

The other Aspect of Paradise in Mythos/Religion is a Place that our Gods would Dwell and were the Worthy/Honorable would be able to LIVE FOREVER.  In some Mythos/Religion this means they will be Joined Time to Time by their Gods, in other its just a Place there WORTHY SOULS will END UP.

But in Context to the Franchise we can-not get Drawn to ANY Specific Religion or Mythos and to NOT take it too Literal, and so NOW that Dr Shaw is Dead, she is NOT going to AWAKEN in Paradise and be Greeted by Christ. And so instead we have to look at COMMON THEMES and take them as HOW they have been Interpreted by Ancient Cultures.

And so in that Context the Engineers likely SEED various Worlds, they go to Interact and Visit their Creations and those that are DEEMED to be WORTHY may see some of them TAKEN AWAY and to Planet 4 to then Mix their Genetics into the Gene-pool on Planet 4.

This would FIT with how RS had Indicated that while there are Many Different Races of Human (Skin Colors and other Slight Differences from Continent to Continent) he said WHY cant the same be for the Engineers. He also said the Engineers are NOT a Race but a Civilization.

The Engineer Culture is one of Basic Needs, and so they LIVE just like Monks do and the Amish, in those Cultures they SURVIVE... they dont NEED to have the Internet, Smart Phones, TV's, Consoles or other Forms of Entertainment... their Culture seems to see NO NEED for these things.

But it would seem they would USE some Technology for where its NEEDED in Regards to their CULT/RELIGION and way of LIFE.  And so they LIKELY have some Technology (seems Evidence of this) that can Generate Power that they would USE to Light/Heat up their Homes etc.  Maybe Provide Clean Water? (But they maybe also USE some Primitive Methods too).

They likely Generate Power and Technology to Protect their World?  Maybe to Effect their Climate?  The Earlier Idea was they had Technology that had Acted to Protect and Shield the Planet and Act like some Cloaking Technology where their World can remain HIDDEN unless you arrive within its Location.

The Engineers could have MANY such Worlds... when  i look at the Hall of Heads then it kind of Reminds me that THIS PLACE is a Meeting Place of the Various Elders, like where you would HOST like a G7 or G8 Summit on Earth.  And so Each of those Elders/Heads could have came from their OWN Place in the Galaxy and they Arrive to Planet 4 from Time to Time to have Meetings.

PS: so to go back to Adam and Eve, i guess what i am saying is IF they had NEVER SINNED then they would have Bore Children and Grand Children and SO ON and SO ON!

Who would have been Allowed to Remain in the Garden of Eden/Walled City, and likely a Civilization would have Formed in the Garden that is Watched Over by Gods Protector Angels (Cherubim) and where GOD could Visit from Time to Time.

And so Adam and Eves Kingdom could ONE day had become like the CITY on Planet 4 and i think its to look at those Engineers on Planet 4 being like Adam and Eve if they had NOT gone and Sinned...

Or as their Replacements to Live in Paradise who have NOT gone and Sinned against their Creator.

To me it comes down to:

What were Elizabeth and David trying to find? The Engineers homeworld or just some living Engineers? 

Did the ship automatically take them to planet 4...or did David plot the course?

Planet 4 could be an outpost or a family home....Immortal beings should have enormous families. Planet 4 could be a summer home for all we know...their sparse 'cabin in the woods'.

If my family were immortal...I'd have billions of years to accumulate storage sheds, space ships, bunch of stuff....my junk would probably cover the planet! lol!

Here is a Larger Version of the Banner.

Here is some of the Concept Work and so those Pillars with the Statues on are between 80-110M in Height and so some of those Buildings (Not Inc the Cathedral) are like 200-400M in Height.

Captain Cold

Wait the xenomorph for the most part are bipedal especially in the first two movies

Yeah thats HOW the Comics had Shown it.... does-not make a lot of Sense though ;)

The Concept Works for Prometheus had Indicated the Deacon would Venture Out onto the Surface... but then its FATE is Unknown.

It seemed the Deacon took like 5 Days to Gestate.... by which TIME we see that David and Dr Shaw had LEFT the Moon.....

What Becomes of it is OPEN for Debate....

*HOW LONG can the Deacon Live for?

*Can the Deacon Procreate and HOW?

*WOULD its Off-Spring require a HOST to Gestate?

If we look at the Deacon it seems to be a Human Hybrid and so maybe it does NOT have to LAY EGGS... maybe it can Procreate on its Own (Asexual Reproduction) and so it may Give Birth to Live Young, that can Grow and then Procreate themselves....

IF SO then anyone who Returns to LV-223 will be in Store to Discover Many such Creatures.

I had taken the Size of the New Born Deacon before and classed it as a Mammal and then looked at a Mammals Birth Size to Adult and we would have been in for a 12ft Deacon.

Looking at Fire and Stone it indicated they would be 10ft thats NOT something to be Messed with.

I think in Context to the Franchise Universe it is about how ALL the Mythos/Religions are what Encompasses the Engineers, and its our Interpretations that Change with Time that Created the Religions and Mythos.

so its like Chinese Whispers... if you went back before we had Technology like Phones, Internet and even Mass Transport so you go back to say 1066 and say in ROME and someone Creates a Fable a Tale... this is Passed On to Town/Town it then Travels Across Europe and the Middle East to Asian and you have the Potential than in 300-500 Years this FABLE has some Differences from Country to Country and County to County within these Countries.

But they would ALL still have some Similarities...  and this is the same with Various Mythos and Religions they are Different but they ALL seem to have some Common Events and Themes just TOLD in a Different Way with Gods/Creators with Different Names.

The Ancient Astronaut Theory is what Plays on this....

Its a Interesting take and ONE that if we apply it to the Franchise/Engineers is what THEY was going for.

Captain Kirk is NO GOD...........

But Imagine for a Moment that the Enterprise goes back in TIME to say 1000BC and we have the Enterprise go into Low Orbit and so can be seen behind/within the CLOUDS.... then a Away Team would BEAM DOWN.. they arrive and are Confronted by Humans who then ATTACK them and the Away Team would SHOOT at them and Disintegrate One, and Stun Another, and then they would USE one of their Devices to Heal that Human.

They then SPEAK on their Communication Devices to the Captain... he then Sends down a Replicator to then Make Food for these Humans as a Peace Offering.

How would Humans from 3000 Years ago Interpret that?

They would see like a Chariot or Castle in the Clouds, they would see Human looking beings Appear from No-Where or be Sent Down in a Beam of Light.

They Shoot Fire and Turn one of them into DUST or they just Disappear, the other is Downed and Appears Dead, but then is Magically Brought back to LIFE (maybe they are Beamed to the Ship and Return the Day after Resurrected from Death).

The Humans hear a Voice of these Visitors Leader and YET he is NOT there, they area Speaking to a Invisible Entity who is calling the Shots. These Invaders are Speaking to their God in the Sky!

But they (Enterprise Crew) reveal they are NOT invaders and then begin to Prepare Hot Food from out of No-Where but this like BOX....  and then Heal some Ailments of the Humans with the Enterprises Crews Medical Tools.

To those Ancient Humans these would be seen as Miracles like what Christ had Performed, they could be Interpreted as that way.

And so in Context with the Franchise Universe its likely that Christ was a Human Hybrid who had Tools and Knowledge that was Advanced Technology that the Humans had seen as being Magical and Divine... and so MIRACLES.

"were most likely other engineers/modified humans sent to earth"

Indeed and they could Explain the Star Maps in other Countries that had NO contact with Mainland Europe, Africa and Asia.  like Mayan One, it could be these Cultures had behaved in ways that was NOT that Offensive to the Engineers and THEY had NEVER gone and Turned On or Killed their Emissaries sent by the Engineers.

It makes Further Sense for the Engineers to come down and Collect their Emissaries but maybe some Remained?  It makes Sense for the Engineers to come and Visit the Cultures that are NOT being Offensive and TAKING some of them AWAY from the Earth or their Children (if they had NOT already been doing so) and so IF the Engineers had taken Humans from Earth who are NOT Corrupt etc, then they would have NO Problem with Destroying us... because they have say Obedient/Pure Humans or Infants for which they can Populate another Place with.

Engineers coming back Time to Time to Evolve and Teach us and to TAKE AWAY some Humans or Children makes Sense...  Each Time they give us the Star Map...

I Believe the Map is NOT were the Engineers come from.... its NOT a Warning or a Trap........... its the Engineers showing USE as to WHERE WE CAME FROM... only at some Point this Place (LV-223) had became Corrupt, and Perverted with the Horrors we saw.

"I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before"

Well i think it FITS with the Theme that RS seems to be going for, which will BOIL DOWN to the ONLY thing that makes our Engineers Gods... is TIME and TECHNOLOGY/KNOWLEDGE.

And so IF the Company had Gained all their Knowledge then Mankind would be able to Genetically Alter themselves to LIVE for Longer, become Physically Superior and with the Engineers Creation Tool (GOO) they can then Create/Hybrid Lifeforms and with the Engineers Ships... then we could become the GODS.

The Space Jockey had gone through a LOT of Changes... it seemed PRIOR to the Prequels the IDEA that RS had settled on was we it was a SPACE SUIT. And Considering the Concepts by HR Giger it was NO real Surprise to me when we saw the Engineers.

The Main Dilemma comes from the SCALE i would say IF you asked RS or what he was thinking back in 2005, 2000, 1995 etc.... there would be NO WAY that he would Picture the Space Jockey Suit as being something that is WORN by a 8ft Being.  Our Downsized Pilot has came about from RS being Reluctant to USE any Special Effects to Digitally make our 7ft Actors become 12-15ft Engineers.

The Best Solution would be a Engineer and maybe we could have STILL ended up with this, its a Question of HOW TALL would he be?  But they could go by Kanes Comment "it looks like its Grown out of the Chair" to have it that something had made the Space Jockey/Engineer go and Expand after Death.

I think as NOTHING has been 100% Spelt Out on Screen then its OPEN to Change and so any Incoming Engineer Elders could be Portrayed as being 10ft Tall.

You turn the PLOT to be that these beings had GOT to a Point they Cant Procreate and so they Created Humanoids like on Earth to then take the Females and using their DNA with the GOO they can Infect those Females Egg Cells to Create a Hybrid Human/Engineer and these are WHAT we see on Planet 4.

I think with the Synthetics we have to remember their Outer Layer is just a Synthetic Skin, beneath this is where they are more Mechanical, i think if we look at the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant and could make it a more Mechanical then you have your Xenomorph from ALIEN and i do think this is the ROUTE that we would have seen Ridley Scott take....

I also think RS would have gone the route that Davids A.I is Transcended to the W-Y Systems...and so YES it could be that ASH has Davids Soul in him.

As FAR as what would Happen to David.... i think if we follow the THEMES from the Prequels then his DEATH/END would come from HUBRIS, his own Creation would be his Downfall and THIS may NOT mean the Xenomorph as i think that in Alien Covenants Sequel we would have seen David go and Create something else.

The other thing with a Conclusion (we can Assume Davids Conclusion will lead to the Space Jockey) then the Space Jockey seemed to maybe have been trying to PREVENT the Xenomorphs from doing any Harm, RS had indicated before it was a Benevolent Act as in trying to Quarantine the Cargo.

Depending on HOW they was to Conclude the Prequels, it could be that David has decided to USE his Xenomorphs on his own Creations and then Intend to take them to Earth but we could see the Space Jockey being ONE of his Creations who attempts to PREVENT this....

Who knows... we shall NEVER find out i am Afraid... and whatever would become of David i do Suspect his A.I would LIVE ON in the W-Y Systems.

A Xenomorph/Human Hybrid that will Learn to use GUNS is a Different Matter and i think this would be Plausible.

I think it depends the Xenomorph is Intelligent, but i think their Killer Instincts would mean that would sense their Victims and i think they would GO IN for the Attack or Sneak around rather than to STAND BACK and Shoot.

Can they be Taught? who knows it seems you cant REASON with a Xenomorph and so it could be UNLIKELY you can Control and Teach them, and BESIDES i think seeing Xenomorphs with Guns would SUCK.

Ranged Attacks by Xenomorphs should come from some kind of Mutation/Evolution and so maybe they can Mutate so their Tails and can SPRAY ACID? Or they have like Stingers  that can be SHOT and Regrown so they become like Darts that contain a Toxic then Breaks Down its Victim from inside.

> 

A human isn't born with the knowledge to operate ( or create) a helicopter or a cell phone......So.. I see no reason the xeno can't 'learn'? Probably just needs an education.

Who would be there to teach them? David's fate is unknown even though he most likely survivies i doubt he is going to teach the xenos how to fire an AK

I actually think you are right in that regard

its a Decent to see Unused Beasts and with the Dark Goo well the Choices truly are Boundless.

its a Decent to see Unused Beasts and with the Dark Goo well the Choices truly are Boundless.

Captain Cold

I think that the Xenomorphs are technically intelligent enough that they could use guns, however, they don't need to. They're perfectly adapted to hunting prey without advanced weaponry. The only weapons they need are already built into their anatomy, with their claws, teeth, tail, speed and stealth, guns would be pointless. In a way, that makes them more dangerous than humans, because they don't need technology to kill their prey. They don't need to carry weapons because they ARE the weapon.

A human isn't born with the knowledge to operate ( or create) a helicopter or a cell phone......So.. I see no reason the xeno can't 'learn'? Probably just needs an education.

In the film it's unknown what happened to it.

In dark horse comics Prometheus: fire and stone, it is speculated that it mutated into a living mountain (yeah I know weird). Earlier in the comics if I remember correctly (It's been a while since I read the comics), one of the survivors who was studying the pathogen settled on the mountain, and he noticed that the mountain is growing bigger and bigger and that for some reason xenomorphs are avoiding it. At the end of fire and stone when survivors dug into the mountain in search of the beacon, they found out it's a living organism.

The protomorph in covenant and AVP aliens in my opinion 

I think the answer is that the xenomorphs simply aren't intelligent enough to use guns, or simply cannot use guns. We almost never see them stand on 2 legs, and their hands don't really look like they could hold one

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it leaves that Interesting Dilemma of if you Created Clones of yourself and when they was Activated they had all your Memories so you have Identical Copies of yourself...  if you are a Megalomaniac maybe ONE or more of you Copies would not want to RULE/SHARE your Kingdom... there can BE only ONE and so your other Clones may even Plot to Eradicate each other.

Thats a Possibility... if each becomes Sentient.

That's true, one of the possibilities i didn't really look upon. But then again walter was made by weyland and had a different AI. Think about it this way, nearly every google account is different, but if you log into your google account on a different device it is still the same device. Perhaps made it so that his AI will automatically go to another body if the current one is destroyed. The xenomorphs look bio mechanical but it would look like the human-alien from ripley 8 at the end of alien 4 if it was david, and while yes those two andriods might be very different it would still look somewhat similar. 

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I also suspect that the Special Order 937 and the W-Y Company (Agenda) would be because of by Davids A.I as he Uploads himself to the Companies Systems and his Transcendence Self is Running the SHOW.

Which would make the Franchise Revolve around David and i dont think a LOT of People would be a Fan of that.

That actually sounds interesting. One of the things most people looked over is how the andriod from the first alien (i forgot his name) called the xenomorph the "perfect organism" which david also called. And i know that it is most likely just a throwaway line, it could suggest that david's AI had some control over many events

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I think it depends what you mean by the Original Script?  We had a Pitch by Jon Spaights, which was Accepted and then he went to Write 8 Drafts (i think) and with some of these Drafts its loosely Indicated by the Coincidence of the DATE that the Engineers had GOT MAD at us because we Crucified Christ.

They felt this was a LITTLE too on the NOSE and to look at it as Jesus was a Messenger and Emissary that is Sent Down to TRY and Steer us on a Track that Pleases the Engineers but we Crucified him.... But RS preferred us to look at it that at this Point 2000 Years ago that Mankind in Many Places had Started to Behave in ways that OFFENDED the Engineers and WHAT they intended for us as far as HOW we should behave.  And so they Decided to Destroy us.

I was talking about that, however my knowledge is limited on that subject because i mainly know about that from youtube comments and videos. However i agree on the alternative universe theory. We know that the engineers are based on greek statues of "gods" like zeus and hades. Perhaps the "gods" that have been recorded are genetically modified humans or engineers (as you said it before). I honestly think that's the most logical theory so far. Perhaps ouranos the greek "god of sky" is one of their spaceships. This would also confirm how they know about humans crucifying jesus, as there were most likely other engineers/modified humans sent to earth

I can agree on that, due to the many retcons i think the most logical answers is that they are a sub-species of the engineers, like we saw in "paradise city". I personally dislike them being the "engineers creators" because it would open up a god paradox as it stated it before.

Seeing ridley's original plans and many other pitched scripts, it is clear that the space jockey was supposed to be an engineer, but looking at giger's artwork it shows a more humanoid version of the "space jockey" somewhat similar to what we got in prometheus. I think it's most likely a mix of the space jockeys and the ones original seen in gigers art work

I really have to Read your Story Michelle so i can Contribute...

"but the cornerstone is her lack of fertility and her annunciation by the Mutagen thanks to David following instructions from our man Weyland"

This is Interesting because it did ALLOW for Dr Shaw to Create Life... but it was NOT a Traditional Fetus as David said.  Depending on HOW they or YOU would take the GOO and HOW it Works, then David could OFFER her a Chance to Create Life more in her Image. With Spaights Work (Scarabs) we get a more Simple and Clear look at what the GOO is...

Sacrificial Goo/Scarabs Break Down and Store the Sacrificed Organisms DNA so it then becomes a New Substance that Imprints that DNA onto Life it Infects.

Primate on Earth gets Infected with Engineer DNA and so Begins our Ancestral Origins.

Fifield gets Infected from Urns and becomes something that has Xenomorph DNA which implies a Xeno-Related Organism was Sacrificed to Obtain this.

So if we had the Urns contain Engineer DNA from Sacrificed Engineers, then MAYBE the Outcome for Dr Shaw would NOT have been the Trilobite but something more Humanoid and HENCE would allow her to Create.

This is NOT to Hijack or De-Rail this thread but just to say that IF the above is Correct, then David could have a OFFER for Dr Shaw that he may be able to FIND a way for her to Create a more Traditional Offspring (or so HE could TELL her).

And so STORY ARC wise when Dr Shaw discovers there is NO GOD and these Engineers are who they are..... IF we see them take CARE of the Engineers, then Dr Shaw has NOTHING...

David could suggest that THEY can both START a NEW EDEN...

"I am sorry Elizabeth that you could not get all your answers, those Engineers are not worthy to be Gods, they can do No Harm to Mankind now" 

"But all is Not Lost, we can make a Fresh Start from this Hell and turn it Once again into a Paradise, Create a New Eden, i believe i can help you to become the Mother of a New Population of Humanity"

"Together we can raise them and if we are KIND it can be a KIND world, i am sorry your Gods where not what your Father had taught you to believe in!  But alas there is some Good from your Belief, the teachings of your Faith would be a Good Basis to allow this Eden and your Children to become better than my Creator and your Creators ever could"

So YES i have to read the way you take it forwards, what i did above was to merely show that they DID-NOT have to throw Dr Shaw under the Bus.  And so David and Dr Shaw could have created a New Eden... but what Happens when those Children have No Respect for David and see him as just a Servant (F-ING ROBOT) and when Dr Shaw shows more Interest to her Children and New Humanity and LESS interest to David.... HOW would he then React! as without him there be NOTHING.

The Space Jockey is something that has GONE through Changes....

Originally it was the Remains (Skeletal) of a Alien Organism that has NO Resemblance to a Human.  Then HR Giger came along and RS liked some of his Concepts which include Necronom V and so they did some Story Boards having the Space Jockey as similar to this Piece which would be a Bio-Mechanical being.

But then HR Giger was tasked to come up with a Original Design and he gave us the Space Jockey as in the Topic Banner, which implies either a Bio-Mechanical Being or a Space Suit.

Here are HR Gigers Face Hugger Concepts, and NOTE the Suit (not Helmet) is Similar to the Engineers Suits we saw in Prometheus (Suit the Engineer was in Cryo-sleep with) also these beings are Bald Humanoids.

In HR Gigers Mural we see these Space Suited beings but the Image on the Right is the Latter Versions where the MASK had been Changed, this Mask has some Connection to the Space Jockey Concept.

So our Space Jockey had became a Humanoid in a Space Suit, but the Problems began when the Actual Prop was Finished and it looked more like Bones/Skeleton in some Areas....

When we get to the Prequels then the Concept Works some of them looked more like a Merger between the Space Jockey Prop and the Concept that they was Based Off, but then they also did some Concepts that made it look LESS like the Space Jockey and our Prometheus Suit were BORN.

We was Supposed to be getting some 12-15ft Engineers, then 10ft but ALAS the Final Result was 8ft and this makes some Conflict to the Space Jockey Size but we are Expected to OVERLOOK such differences.

So they wanted to give us 9-10ft Tall Engineers as of Production.  But for all Intensive Purposes as of 2012 then YES the Space Jockey would have been a Engineer.

With the Change of Direction with AC we have to ASSUME that when David tucks Daniels into Cryo-Sleep there is NO EGGS on the Derelict and Likely that the SHIP is even NOT on LV-426 yet.

And so we have NOT yet concluded to WHO the Space Jockey is and so it could be a Engineer still (LV-223 or Planet 4 kind) but if they want to AVOID any Conflicts with ALIEN then they could make the Space Jockey to be 10-12 Feet Tall, and by doing so Introduce it as either.

*A Larger Sub-Creation  of the Engineers.

*The Creators of the Engineers.

*Or a Species that has the same Creator as the Engineers have.

The Revelation of this Species does-not have to look Very Human but it should still be either.

*A Space Suit

OR

*A Bio-Mechanical Organism.

But i Suspect that RS would have Revealed it as a Sub-Creation of David or David himself.

"maybe the Engineers used terramorfing in some way before us?"

I think thats a Certainty i think with comments by RS, then its seems that NOT every World the Engineers Seed is able to Suport Life and so something has to be DONE to some Worlds that ALLOW them to Support Life.

And so YES that means some kind of Terra-forming.... but RS seems to Indicate that is NOT the Engineers who Prepare such Worlds... they merely Sacrifice themselves on these Terra-Formed Worlds so that Life can Begin/Evolve.

He implies those who CREATE the Worlds are the BIG BOY!

"If engineers are the forerunners of us, and therefore were creators of life forms in places that were possible for biology to function, who created that? Where’s the big boy? You think this was all an accident? I don’t know."

This was in September 2015 the Alien Covenant Drafts were Wrote after this, and this Comment was around the Time when RS had Announced the Next Movie is Alien: Paradise Lost...... but within 2 Months he then said the Next Movie is Alien: Covenant.

And so with AC we Never found out Anything much about the Engineers yet his Earlier Comment would Indicate we would PEEL the Layers Above them and maybe see WHO is the Big Boy.