Alien vs Aliens

Comparing Jason X to Alien made my night =) I do get your point, but that is like comparing Rambo part II to Apocalypse Now! You can find similarities between all kinds of trash (I did enjoy Rambo though) and serious films. It doesn't make the movies comparable. I LOVE "Aliens" (hence my name). You just have to enjoy it for what it is...a perfectly executed James Cameron movie...interesting story and characters (definitely very similar to Alien in the whole rescue/overheating countdown explosion area), perfect production...keeps your eyes glued and knuckles white! With that said, Alien makes you think, wonder, obsess... It is dated and clunky at times, but still just as unsettling as ever. It drives you crazy that he doesn't show or explain more, but that was the genius behind it, as everyone here knows. The irony is that even though you can find similarities in plot structure (horror/androids) to Jason X, you couldn't find two movies that are more different, or further apart in quality or approach. Alien = a horror movie in space taking itself VERY seriously Jason x = a spoof of a horror movie in space, winking it's eye as it makes fun of itself Alien = amazing, never before seen visuals and ideas Jason x = cheap, seen a million times effects, again to make fun of itself Alien = a B movie upgraded to a serious film that still shakes people Jason x = a spoof of a B movie Aliens = a great movie by a great director with characters and guns that people fell in love with while clenching their teeth and covering one eye.

Comparing Jason X to Alien made my night =) I do get your point, but that is like comparing Rambo part II to Apocalypse Now! You can find similarities between all kinds of trash (I did enjoy Rambo though) and serious films. It doesn't make the movies comparable. I LOVE "Aliens" (hence my name). You just have to enjoy it for what it is...a perfectly executed James Cameron movie...interesting story and characters (definitely very similar to Alien in the whole rescue/overheating countdown explosion area), perfect production...keeps your eyes glued and knuckles white! With that said, Alien makes you think, wonder, obsess... It is dated and clunky at times, but still just as unsettling as ever. It drives you crazy that he doesn't show or explain more, but that was the genius behind it, as everyone here knows. The irony is that even though you can find similarities in plot structure (horror/androids) to Jason X, you couldn't find two movies that are more different, or further apart in quality or approach. Alien = a horror movie in space taking itself VERY seriously Jason x = a spoof of a horror movie in space, winking it's eye as it makes fun of itself Alien = amazing, never before seen visuals and ideas Jason x = cheap, seen a million times effects, again to make fun of itself Alien = a B movie upgraded to a serious film that still shakes people Jason x = a spoof of a B movie Aliens = a great movie by a great director with characters and guns that people fell in love with while clenching their teeth and covering one eye.

oh no.......not another alien vs aliens rant....yawwwwwwn

I'm gonna come out of lurking just to have a crack here.. "Alien is not the masterpiece you think it is and lacks the depth of Camerons film" Get out your copy of Aliens and watch the approach to the derelict ...Take note of the camera work .The atmospherics ..The lighting..The quality of design and set building...The music , the dialogue and the acting.. Now watch the same aproach to the derelict in Alien...Which has more depth? The chest burster...Or any of the individual death scenes...which has more depth..More attention to detail?...To human response? A subplot or scene can be presented in the most obvious terms to generate an immediate upfront response in the viewer ... Or, it can be more genuine or abstracted and work on a more subtle level.. Again..which is deeper? The flaws of Alien are technical....All effects pitfalls if you notice.. These are all a result of a lack of funds ,time and resources.. No motion control rigs etc.. Aliens whilst being a great film is flawed in a different way.. The flaws are generic.. They are to do with Artistry..The script,dialogue and a glib disregard for the complexity of the alien itself and the reality the characters find themselves in .. So Alien is a masterpiece...It is as good as it could possibly be within the confines of what was technically avaidable to the people who made it...

I'm gonna come out of lurking .. "Alien is not the masterpiece you think it is" Ok we'll talk about this on a technical level as there is no accounting for taste.. The design for Alien is absolutly unique when one considers the time frame.. There are similarities to the interior of the millenium falcon but thats it.. The script is very well rounded as a story...The subtext are complex and rooted in sexual psycology betrayal and fear... The camera work is flawless.The lighting is second to none.. The music is haunting and evocative..The acting is first class.The dialogue is realistic...The effects are nothing short of amazing considering the resources avaidable to the crew...The set pieces are intense in thier level of detail and pace. consider in both films the approach to the derelict or the camera track around the sleeping ships .. Alien actually meditates on what it means to be alone in space..To wake from hypersleep.. to approach an alien ship .. I disagree that the characterisation is bad .. Every member of the ship is personified perfectly .. There is no doubt who is who and the humanity of each is acted superbly by each of the cast .I actualy forgot who some of the characters were in Aliens and they way the marines conducted themselves annoyed me with thier incompetence The flaws of Alien are technical... The result of a shortage of time and money..This has been documented many times and admitted by the producers.. More cash = better explosion at the end of the film and a motion control rig.. Aliens flaws are based in it's lack of Artistry,dialogue and script.. A glib disregard for for the concepts behind the subject matter and the reality the characters find themselves in.. It is expertly handled in otherways however..But the exact same problems have found thier way into every single Cameron film .. So to conclude ..Imo Alien is a masterpiece for a simple reason.It is as good as it possibly could be within the constraints given to the people who made it..

I'm gonna come out of lurking .. "Alien is not the masterpiece you think it is" Ok we'll talk about this on a technical level as there is no accounting for taste.. The design for Alien is absolutly unique when one considers the time frame.. There are similarities to the interior of the millenium falcon but thats it.. The script is very well rounded if in no way original as a story...The complexities and originality are left to subtext never to fall foul of sentimentality... It's uniqueness as a script revolves around the birth scene which realy has to be seen in the context of when the film was made to appreciate it's impact.. The camera work is flawless.The lighting is second to none.. The music is haunting and evocative..The acting is first class.The dialogue is realistic...The miniatures are top notch...The effects are nothing short of amazing considering the resources avaidable to the crew...The set pieces are intense in thier level of detail and pace. Consider in both films the approach to the derelict or the camera track around the sleeping ships .. Alien actually meditates on what it means to be alone in space..To wake from hypersleep.. to approach an alien ship ..To die at the hands of something unknown.. I disagree that the characterisation is bad .. Every member of the ship is personified perfectly .. There is no doubt who is who and the humanity of each is acted superbly by each of the cast .I actualy forgot who some of the characters were in Aliens and wasn't even aware when they died..The way the marines conducted themselves annoyed me with thier incompetence and stupid one liners.. They cheapened the whole concept of alien life by making references to Arturians etc.. The flaws of Alien are technical... The result of a shortage of time and money..This has been documented many times and admitted by the producers.. More cash = better explosion at the end of the film and a motion control rig.. Aliens is a great movie but it's flaws are based in it's lack of Artistry..(Giger),dialogue and script.. A glib disregard for for the concepts behind the subject matter and the reality the characters find themselves in is actually pretty bizarre when you consider the oppertunity given by the source material.. It is expertly handled in otherways however..But the exact same problems have found thier way into every single Cameron film .. CHEESE! So to conclude ..Imo Alien is a masterpiece for a simple reason.It is as good as it possibly could be within the constraints given to the people who made it..

well, thanks for being understanding everyone, and not being mean lol

We came at it from different directions gritty, but I entirely agree.

Hey invaderzim42....we're here to converse, discuss the finer points of something we're all passionate about and have some fun. You and I can disagree and we obviously do, but there's no ill will there, I hope you know, and I just enjoy getting into it will all you guys. In the non-digital world, I have one friend who truly appreciates and identifies with my love for 'Alien' and my anticipation of 'Prometheus'....and we've discussed it all to death. Who else can I share this wonderful insanity with but all of you? invaderzim42......hats off man...

Agreed craigamore this site is not conceived to tolerate the kind of nonsense that gets debated on you tube and other forums where its used as an excuse to hurl abuse at one another. It has been a pleasure for most of us to debate ideas and thrash out opinions without the need for that kind of stupidity and a lot of us are getting to long in the tooth for that kind of unconstructive waste of energy . After all those of us that were around when the first movie was released are in our mid to late forties and beyond lol. We can agree to disagree and speculate openly without the need for conflict .

From what I heard Die Hard 5 is set in russia and stars john mcclane and his son

Russia? very interesting....

I just wanted to share a personal impression of both films they very first time i saw them. For Alien, my parents and some friends told me about the movie, I was 6 back then. It is funny how I imagined in terms of visuals, something completely different to the actual production design. I was thinking more of a 50's -60's b movie ( i also remember Planet of the Vampires ). For Aliens, Now a 12 year old kid, I went to the premiere at Christmas Eve ( here in Mexico ) with my parents; and of course the thrill and suspense I felt was matchless. Now that I own both movies in Blue Ray, and having a chance to see them without any disturbance; I can see all the flaws and mistakes you guys mention of both movies.

If movie-makers are expecting me to pay to see what they are churning out, I expect a good story as well as good visuals and a sense of believe-ability..... Not a load of crap that has me constantly questioning the scenario. The new Thing movie had some horrible glaring continuity issues that made me feel that all of the effort that went into it was just flushed down the toilet. The dog. Looked NOTHING AT ALL LIKE THE DOG IN THE ORIGINAL. The cavern the ship was in. The Norweigans blew it up in the original didn't they? Not according to the new movie, the ship starting up was the cause of the cavern collapsing............... Over-use of CGI when they had some far better practical effects made and ACTUALLY shot. Covered over with that ridiculous SanderCGIThing at the end. Fucking Hollywood.

All good debates. I like how consistent all of the sets and props are in Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3. The dialog in those three were all believable to me. Alien and Aliens were good enough for me to the point where I never paid attention to the fact that there was gravity on the ships. Yeah, the airlock scene in Aliens was unrealistic. I'm no astronaut, but you don't have to be to know that the vacuum of space would would take the air right out of your lungs damn near instantaneously. Everyone has their notion of how the Alien should be portrayed. I personally hate the hive idea, but on a planetary scale, that's pretty threatening. I've always thought the fact that a single alien's ability to decide whether or not you die simply by being present...wherever, is more terrifying. It's like the antithesis of humankind. It's existence based on killing...it never really "ate" anyone or seemed to have any other purpose. It's reproduction is still in the air for me. The idea of being restrained to be raped and the mutagen induced transformation into an egg are both vile and horrible ways to die. Imagine your body slowly changing on the DNA level...makes me sick and almost makes me ache to think about it. Then, you have the Alien Resurrection portrayal, which to me, likens the Aliens to the velociraptors in Jurassic Park or something. Might as well be running from the lions in 'Ghost in the Darkness'. I'll take the former over the latter, ha. The whole character development issue people have with 'Alien'...the story takes place in 24 hours. What do you want, back story on each person or the events that make the movie? I haven't seen a movie since 'Alien' that had more "human" characters in it. The cast were all emotional wrecks. Call me a bitch, but even if I had weapon, I'd be pissing on myself! On top of it all, as it has been said already, Ridley couldn't have realized half of what he (and all of us) wanted to 30 years ago. Alien is a masterpiece because I haven't stopped thinking about it for 24 years. It feels good to be able to talk to other people about this "thing" that has scarred me since I was a kid! Cheers!

Totally agree Cypher, THE THING 2011 is a total proof of hollywood nonsense. Why do all of the supposed hard work of working in reverse some scenes if they drop the ball in the most important stuff like the story and effects. The only thing that worked on me in terms of marketing was Mary Elizabeth Winstead. But really, the THING 2011 is perfect example of what Prometheus should not be and why Sir Ridley does not intend to handle like a direct prequel.

As I was getting to the end of page 3 of this thread, with its enthusiastic, sometimes lengthy (but ARTICULATE) posts by all involved, I was thinking, 'I need to chime in again about how much I enjoy this forum,' particularly because of the consistent level of civility! But then you guys went ahead and beat me to that point too. Here's looking fwd to nekid push ups (or not nekid, I mean it IS Charlize Theron) and extraterrestrial civilizations doing decidedly uncivilized things! -sg1054

"i seriously just wrote this huge thing, and it took me so long that when i posted it the page had to reload and i was signed out, so now i need to re type it " HA!

@invaderzim42..When i go off on a rant(which occurs more often),ill type out a huge reply,but i copy befor i post so if its gets wiped out(cuz i gotta sign back in..ugh)i paste it back in the box on the next go round..been there.

NOW THEN!..(new member,tipping my hat at my fello alien fiends), I love Alien, (scenario) 1981,out of school on summer break,9year old nemec balled up in a blanket in from of the tv at 1am,exploring the channels on the newly installed cable box,alone in the livingroom and bedazzled by soo many viewing options he hears,"next on HBO,a crew battles to survive an alien onboard theyre ship.Sigourney Weaver,Tom Skerritt star in ALIEN,next on HBO". i thought to myself,ooh man!"in space no one can hear you scream"..ooh man,looks scary,am i in over my head here?nah its cool,i can handle it.....i laid there and watched the entire movie from credits to credits and Alien scared the shit out of me.not so much it gave me nightmares but more like"um,hey mom?!!you really want me to sleep in that dark room? alone?..all night?"..i wasnt going back after watching that film..forever impressed..every science fiction film i watched after that HAD to meet the bar alien set or it wasnt worth watching..As Ridley had said"the old dark house,everybody gets picked off one by one".Ridley Rocks m/

NOW THEN!..(new member,tipping my hat at my fello alien fiends), I love Alien, (scenario) 1981,out of school on summer break,9year old nemec balled up in a blanket in from of the tv at 1am,exploring the channels on the newly installed cable box,alone in the livingroom and bedazzled by soo many viewing options he hears,"next on HBO,a crew battles to survive an alien onboard theyre ship.Sigourney Weaver,Tom Skerritt star in ALIEN,next on HBO". i thought to myself,ooh man!"in space no one can hear you scream"..ooh man,looks scary,am i in over my head here?nah its cool,i can handle it.....i laid there and watched the entire movie from credits to credits and Alien scared the shit out of me.not so much it gave me nightmares but more like"um,hey mom?!!you really want me to sleep in that dark room? alone?..all night?"..i wasnt going back after watching that film..forever impressed..every science fiction film i watched after that HAD to meet the bar alien set or it wasnt worth watching..As Ridley had said"the old dark house,everybody gets picked off one by one".Ridley Rocks m/

Exactly where I'm coming from nemec....totally agree.

I grew up with both. So, I like them both. Even Alien 3. All three tell Ripley's story in a compelling way. The 4th film was just too gimmicky for my tastes. I love Joss Whedon, and the director. However, they should not have been allowed to put their spin on Alien. Felt like a bad comic to me.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDH_TLpMn0g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDH_TLpMn0g[/url]

I am hoping to become a great director in my time, I have a great passion for film and something is worrying me...... If I do become a great director (probably not), if I didmy math right, when I am in my prime of film making, great movies like star wars and alien will probably be close to the 100 mark and will most likaly be re made by the dumb ass studio, and if they wanted me to direct it...... How would I react to that? On one side I would be like "you can't remake that!!!! You will ruin it!!!!" but on the other hand I will be like "but if you are going to make it and I can't stop you, would I really trust someone else to do it?" so what would you do if this hsppened to you? I know that if I ever to remake alien, I am curios what it would be like with no artificial gravity. Just a thought but I always wondered what the movie would be like if it was like that :)

Not only planet of the vampires, but it the terror from beyond space. And personally, I dislike Aliens. But that is just me and my sorry opinion.

they have different strengths and feel like different films entirely and i love them both

Clearly Aliens beat an Alien due to stength in numbers? Seriously - they are different genres. You may as well compare The Piano and Some Like it Hot.

I was thinking about the airlock dilema you discussed earlyer! 1. The airlock doesent open instantly, so it wouldent go airless in a blink of an eye. 2. I think that in an advanced spaceship, the climat control system would try to compensate the loss of air and start pumping in new air hence the steady flow of air in the whole sceene. 3. The only thing i find odd in said sceene is that riplys arm is intact and fully functional, after having the whole weight of the queen on it. please forgive my bad spelling English isent my native language.

There would be no ''Aliens'' without A L I E N , Thats all i have to say really!

awesome, i was waiting for someone to comment and bring this topic to 70 comments :) lol and yeah i know they are completely different, and despite what the title of the topic is this really wasn't supposed to be about what movie was better, it was mainly to talk about how alien is not as good as people think (still great though)

As much as I love Aliens for some of it's visuals I can't help but regard it as the stupid american cousin of Alien. Everything from it's tag line "This time it's war", to Cameron's moronic one dimensional characters, and annoyingly bad dialogue. The mother vs. mother theme didn't do much for me either. It felt strained at best. Ridley Scott on the other hand really managed to do something interesting and believable with Alien. Ripley survived, not because of good heart (Cameron's sentimental and naivistic take on her), but because she managed to "keep it cool" while the rest of the crew members fell victim to the pressure of the situation. That clever twist along with so many other aspects made Alien the classic it is. I think it's a huge misconception to call it a simple B-movie with an A-movie budget. Nothing about Alien is B. Aliens on the other hand is much more of a B movie. The exploitation of the Aliens, the tacky design (the T-Rex like design of the Queen), the focus on superficial action/effects vs. exploration of the deeper themes of Alien.

As much as I love Aliens for some of it's visuals I can't help but regard it as the stupid american cousin of Alien. Everything from it's tag line "This time it's war", to Cameron's moronic one dimensional characters, and annoyingly bad dialogue. The mother vs. mother theme didn't do much for me either. It felt strained at best. Ridley Scott on the other hand really managed to do something interesting and believable with Alien. Ripley survived, not because of good heart (Cameron's sentimental and naivistic take on her), but because she managed to "keep it cool" while the rest of the crew members fell victim to the pressure of the situation. That clever twist along with so many other aspects made Alien the classic it is. I think it's a huge misconception to call it a simple B-movie with an A-movie budget. Nothing about Alien is B. Aliens on the other hand is much more of a B movie. The exploitation of the Aliens, the tacky design (the T-Rex like design of the Queen), the focus on superficial action/effects vs. exploration of the deeper themes of Alien.

@invaderzim42- you know you really needed to have been around a while before 1979 when alien was made. Apart from a few decent horror films exorcist, and omen, for their day, and there was some interesting sc fi _ (quite a lot of which people have mentioned in earlier posts when talking about favourite sc fi films. There is a good list there... but really good serious sc fi ? .. i mean world class ! classic sc fi, there was only 2001, made in 1968, and star wars 1977, and possibly a couple of good movies like west world, and so on. On the whole nothing that came close to ridleys unique interpretation of a sc fi alien world. No one ever had envisioned a film that way before. Also it was all done on a budget of 4.8 million dollars a remarkable achievement. Add to that a swiss genuis artist who's artwork stunned the world, and disturbed and held us in awe with its beauty, and horror, all in equal measures, and put into a hollywood film. You cant imagine what seeing a film like that and the impact it had on an unsuspecting audience in 1979 when we had no internet, and relied quite a bit on word of mouth. It was just awe inspiring . For people who are under thirty, who have been exposed to films made with recent technology, that we have all become accustomed to over the years preceding alien, I guess its hard to contemplate what the fuss is all about, but believe me it was a big deal back then .

@Unlimited Power um...... need to disagree with you there. you kind of got me on the silly dialog (as much as i love the Cameron, he sucks at writing) but all of your other points fail to prove themselves. first off, i just need to get this out of the way and i am talking to everyone not just you, ok here we go. [i]Stop comparing the aliens from aliens to dinosaurs!!![/i] i am not mad at you Unlimited Power but i am really starting to get pissed off at this comparison in general! look, i am a youngster but even i know that before Jurassic park, most of the average public had a [b]completely[/b] different view on dinosaurs, to the public they were like big slow lumbering things, like Godzilla. no one had ever seen a rapter run in and jump on tables or anything like that at the time, so really we should be saying that dinosaurs in newer movies look like the aliens. just saying. and yeah people say they are too much like bugs and in a way that is true, but really should not be a downside at all, in fact ridley was going for "bio-mechanical insect" so if anything that is just staying true to the original. okay now to your point of the characters, we already kind of talked about this, true today characters like that are generic but back in 86 they were not, and the characters in alien are even MORE one dimensional, so really there is no argument there. "This time its war." dumb action subtitle? yes, yes it is. "In space no one can here you scream." just as dumb horror subtitle? you bet your ass it is. and what do you mean action/effects vs. exploration of the deeper themes of Alien??????? my whole point is that alien is not deep at all, its shallower then a t-spoon. the only deep thing about it is its artistic design from hr giger, and thats not ACTUALLY deep, it just tricks you into thinking it is. @alteredstate. yeah, i knew that, but it was only suck a big thing because it is just that well made (8 million by the way, not 4) and that does not make it any less generic. thats not a bad thing, just like star wars, its a high qualidy remake of old 40s-50s B science fictions.

I do think it is fair to compare them as Aliens is the sequel by Gawd! As for me, I go with Alien; it is better on just about every level: Goldsmith beats Horner, the claustrophobia is more pronounced, the Queen in Aliens just lessens the terror for me, and the actors, while excellent in Aliens, can't compete. But to be fair, no one could have competed with what has to be one of the best group of character actors ever assembled for a movie. That to me is what truly elevates Alien. The actors are just perfect. No leading men, no typical Hollywood damsels, just great actors with characters who could each have his/her own prequel. Scott wrote histories for each and every one and damn if you just can't read it on their faces, in their voices. Obviously Dallas is my favorite, in fact I think I will write a post on him. I will say thism though, Hudson is perhaps my favorite character overall. Otherwise, Aliens was a good action flick, Cameron did it as good as anyone could do it. I just don't go for that direction as much as dystopian horror.

I accept all 4 films

Ripley clone 8 has got a really awesome profile pic(jus have 2 state the fact)

actually,on the alien commentary section with Ridley he states that fox doubled the budget to 8million