Forum Topic
lucid
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 6:14 AMIm yet another very long time lurker, first time poster.....
And my thoughts are this.
I re-watched the first film agian at the weekend, the slightly longer directors cut on blue-ray, and i cant get over how similar the two films appear to be, especially after watching the new trailer last night on C4hd and that got me thinking, what if they are?
What if the WHOLE point is that this is more a remake than a prequel?
I would also like to add i think that Vickers is a synthetic, and plays the SAME role as Ash in the first film. Sent by Weyland corp to make sure any knowledge gained survives.
All other crew, ships etc are expendable, even David8...
Remember by the time of Alien, as science officer Ash has his own orders from mother....
What is each and every Weyland space craft had a synthetic science officer who also had a secret agenda built in JUST IN CASE they came across a certain derelict spacecraft...
It explains how Alien starts and how that plot develops....
So the REAL 64,000$ question is how does Prometheus END so that Alien can carry on?
Easy answer: All that can survive is some maybe limited knowledge of the events that take place in the new film, but no samples and no technology, just some knowledge.....
Hence Weyland Corps ongoing search for the 'aftermath' of the new film....
That aftermath being concluded with the Nostromo's RE-discovery on LV426... Which means the temple is NOT on LV426! But the crashed spaceship is....
They had been looking all that time but never found it!
And remember Prometheus was punished by the gods for giving man KNOWLEDGE.
That knowledge just happened to be fire...
36 Replies
Frantz
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 6:27 AMI dont see really that remake thing ...of course are humans in contact with lethal xenos lifeforms but ...the parallel finish here ... while Alien was an uber cat and mouse game here the story develop itself on many levels . Dont forget that they share the same background .
And to me Vickers is absolutely not an android ...too panicked later in the movie .
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 6:30 AMHmmmmm.
Um.
No.
Ridley Scott and Damon Lindelof have both stated, quite emphatically, that this takes place in the same universe as Alien did, 30 years earlier to that, and that the ending would not lead into the original. I'm more and more believing that, much as I always wanted to see how the Space Jockey ended up where he did with that hole in his chest.
Weyland clearly knew there was something they wanted in that particular star system, so they redirected their next ship headed that direction to check it out and bring back a specimen. They knew what they wanted was there, and would go to any length to get it, even if it meant sacrificing 7 innocent(ish) lives in the process.
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
Frantz
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 6:36 AMbut Cypher the nostromo cant be the "next" ship ..since the very same nostromo should have passed from the same route some months before and that many years after Prometheus . If we learn something from Alien is that the company MAYBE know something regarding the signal but surely know very little about the nature of the threat .
yellowcake30
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 6:45 AMI had thought about that theory too. Not so much a remake, but what the studios call a 'reboot" these days to get rid of the negative stigma of remaking your beloved films. New creature design but same principal story. Especially since they are rehashing so much stuff from the original alien script, storyboards and whatnot. Everything they wanted to do in '79 but couldn't because of budget and time restrictions
lucid
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 6:45 AM[quote]If we learn something from Alien is that the company MAYBE know something regarding the signal but surely know very little about the nature of the threat .[/quote]
To me thats the key point.
Whatever happens in Prometheus has to be self contained.
Only a small amount of knowledge can get back to the company... MAYBE....
And i still think that the paralels between Alien and Prometheus are huge....
The biggest difference being that in the second film the SJ is dead.
In prometheus he is ALIVE! So as Cypher above says, we get to find out HOW he dies!
allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 6:46 AMAnd what would the point be in a "remake"?
I think the whole point is that Ridley Scott didn't want to return to this unless he could do something completely new.
However, as @Frantz points out, within that context and within this genre, parallels in the nature of events are unavoidable, maybe, even, necessary - possibly, even, for all we know [i]deliberate[/i] - but that fact alone is inconclusive of the new film being a "remake".
Your principle suggestion seems off target - and it is already understood that this planet is not LV426.
lucid
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 6:49 AM[quote]Your principle suggestion seems off target - and it is already understood that this planet is not LV426.[/quote]
Its only called LV426 in Aliens.
In the first film its Archeon.
And ive always assumed that Sir R has completely ignored all subsequent films after his first one?
9781vadd
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 6:59 AMThe trailer during the period of round 2:04 - 2:07, for me,
I think this was the----- HIstory record video------It showed that
what happen to the SJ at that moments, for examples, why they ran so
hurry, what weree they doing..... To let the crews knew about the true .
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:02 AMBut @Frantz, would it have taken the same route home that it did to Thedus? *I think that's where the Nostromo started, but I might be wrong there*
But you do make a good point there. They knew *something* they wanted was there, and you're right, by that time all the mission data regarding the Prometheus may have been extremely well hidden from everyone that wasn't supposed to have access to it. Someone knew something, that much is obvious. As to what exactly they knew, I don't know if we will ever know. Know what I mean?......... :-P
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
lucid
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:03 AM[quote]But @Frantz, would it have taken the same route home that it did to Thedus? *I think that's where the Nostromo started, but I might be wrong there*
But you do make a good point there. They knew *something* they wanted was there, and you're right, by that time all the mission data regarding the Prometheus may have been extremely well hidden from everyone that wasn't supposed to have access to it. Someone knew something, that much is obvious. As to what exactly they knew, I don't know if we will ever know. Know what I mean?......... :-P[/quote]
wink wink...
;)
allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:05 AM@lucid
What do you mean?
He is not returning to that branch of the story, no - but he acknowledges Aliens.
[Edited for "@". This wasn't for you, @Frantz]
Frantz
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:14 AMYup ...my point is ...the crew of the nostromo was from earth ...the ship too ( the nostromo did fly to Thedus to retrive the cargo ) . Lambert's screen clearly say that they are on the path when they are awaken and the computer ( the company ) ask them to reroute to go to acheron . If that was so important they should have rerouted them in the first trip ( Earth - > Thedus ) ...why they wait the return when they have also the weight of the cargo ? ( and so they put at risks all that tons of important ore ?? )
Also the nostromo trip happen MANY years after the "prometheus" facts ...they could have arranged something more professional if that "thing" was so important to even risk 7 people and a valuable cargo .
Our ONLY hint that the company did know something is the substitution of the science officer with Ash .... the special order can be issued LATER when the company did receive the alien trasmission too .
MAybe Ash was there just by chance ? They were just trying Ash 9 ??
abordoli
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:26 AMI have gotten it from an EXTREMELY reliable source that in Alien this is what happened in regard to "the signal", "the Nostromo" and the replaced science-officer Mr. Android Ash.
1. It was "the company", not the Nostromo that first picked up "the signal"
2. The Nostromo with relatively inexperienced/dysfunctional crew (Ripley was on the only "wild card") was the closest in the area (relatively speaking)
3. The Nostromo had stopped by Thedus giving "the company" the opportunity to swap out the science office on board with someone (something in this case) that would protect the bio-weapon specimen at all cost ("all other priorities rescinded; crew expendable")
4. When the Nostromo gets close to where "the company" has triangulated "the signal", it tells "mother" to wake-up the crew and put on this charade that "the signal" was just detected therefore in their contract they have to "investigate it"....when all along this is/was just a company set-up many months in the oven. The ever-so-premeditated fashion of this offense/crime should make any reasonable person sick to their stomach.
Note: The above IS NOT speculation. It IS what the writer(s) intended, but due to time constraints could not "spoon-feed" us in original 1979 Alien movie.
allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:30 AM@abordoli
?..
Most of this is just what's in the film?
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:39 AM@allinamberclad, abordoli's right, in fact the Alien novel states that the signal was in fact deciphered by the Company and was "frighteningly specific" in regards to what the Space Jockey had seen before he died. And was indeed a warning to anyone landing on that planetoid.
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
Guest
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:42 AMThe new trailer clearly screams "HORROR FILM", just like Alien, but on steroids! Weyland was thee one who wanted to gain Alien knowledge and technology. In Alien, that same directive remained as a standing order, despite routine legitimate missions. In the event anyone runs across an alien signal, all else is expendable. Prometheus is a classic horror film of epic proportions that unavoidably gives rise to the Alien universe we all know and love. Prometheus will enlarge the backstory considerably, thus allowing for a wide range of future film possibilities!
abordoli
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:48 AM@allinamberclad,
EXACTLY! Most of it IS in the film! I just wanted to clarify since what was being discussed here is a common topic here on the site and when I see this material being discussed in a questioning like manner (as Frantz was doing; which is OK; this is the place to discuss such things), I find it best to state what is/was probably not obvious to the "casual viewer".
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:51 AMI really wish they had included that part of Ash's final dialogue in the movie.
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:53 AMOh, and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't Acheron OR LV-426 until Aliens. It was an un-named planetoid when the Nostromo landed on it. I think. I'm gonna go check that............
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
abordoli
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 7:57 AM@Cypher,
I believe you are correct. It was un-named in Alien.
"Behind the scenes
LV-426 was first introduced in the 1979 film Alien, though it is not named and is simply referred to as a "planetoid" or "ball". In the 1986 sequel Aliens, LV-426 is named.
In the latter's novelization, LV-426 is the name given to Ellen Ripley shortly before Weyland-Yutani executive Van Leuwen informs Ripley that the planet has since been renamed as Acheron. This is never spoken of in the movie, and the planet remains known as LV-426. This precedent is consistent in the novels, however. In the novelization of Alien 3, "Acheron" is repeatedly misspelled as "Archeron".
LV-426 is mentioned in the musings of Dr Mason Wren in the novelization of the 1997 film Alien Resurrection, in which the researcher reflects that the loss of the Derelict is a great setback. Unlike earlier novels, the planet is once more referred to as "LV-426".
"
[url=http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Acheron_(LV-426)]Source[/url]
lucid
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 8:13 AM[quote]Oh, and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't Acheron OR LV-426 until Aliens. It was an un-named planetoid when the Nostromo landed on it. I think. I'm gonna go check that............[/quote]
It comes up as Archeon on one of the nav screens in the directors cut...
And NOT LV-426....
I have never noticed it before until i rewatched it last weekend...
allinamberclad
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 8:20 AM@Cypher
I didn't say he wasn't right?
@abordoli
I didn't say you weren't right?
I was just pointing out that what you presented as if it were revelatory, from an, "EXTREMELY reliable source", seemed only to be what happened in the film that everyone saw.
I was also struggling to think why you would think anyone would think it was speculation, when that was what we witnessed taking place?
I couldn't quite see what your point or intention was - so thanks for explaining it...
abordoli
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 8:35 AM@allinamberclad,
No worries. This is just discussion. The reason I included that "this comes from an extremely reliable source; this is not speculation" was a bit overkill on my part (putting the nail in the coffin so to speak) so that we can continue the topic discussion and not go off into a tangent where the things Frantz was questioning have led into lengthy (and needless) debates before.
Also, I don't care if I'm "right" or "wrong" on a sci-fi movie discussion forum. It's all about having fun discussing the topics related to the movie(s) that brought us here in the first place. I will often post stuff that is contrary to logic and what I/the-community actually knows/feels to be "right" just to make discussions a bit more interesting, but typically only concerning Prometheus. As far as the 33 year-old Alien movie is concerned, however, I will admit I'm a bit of a rigid "Alien-phobe" having read/seen a lot of novels/documentaries, etc. I, however, am not a "know-it-all" and I do research and query the vast body of knowledge out there more often than not.
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 8:48 AMYeah sorry I wasn't arguing or anything, I'm up kinda late here so should start seeing pink elephants anytime now............ Mis-reading stuff is my first hint.......... I should go to bed.......
Nah :-P
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
centrosphere
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 8:49 AMthis is disconforting.
Why in the hell Weyland Corp would send a bunch of untrained workers to confront one of the biggest findings of all time?
Because, if Weyland had the time to send Ash to replace the science officer of Nostromo (and this is curious, why would freighters need science officers?), they would have the time to send in a proper expedition. Say, something better prepared than Prometheus itself.
I love the Alien universe, but it is very problematic...
Cypher
Co-AdminMemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 8:50 AMOh yes I see what I did there. Sorry @allinamberclad I read that wrong. My bad.
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"Is it dead this time?" "I dunno, poke it with this stick and see."
abordoli
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 8:56 AMYeah, I'm up a bit too early without sleeping for too long so I'm definitely running my mouth without thinking, perhaps. I'm just so damn excited about this movie. I should have my opening night 3D IMAX tickets before the weekend for 6 people. Not sure yet whether or not to do two showings. The thing that sucks is that they're gonna make me leave and go to the back of the line for the second showing so I'll lose my "perfect seat". Then again, there are no bad seats in an IMAX theatre (although I sure don't want to test that theory out for the dough I'll be shelling out).
Frantz
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 8:59 AMI think is a bit of a fact ( my opinion huh ) that the company didnt know that much about the whole deal ..its clear in Alien and even more in Aliens ( where Burke act only of his own initiative and based on Ripley's story ) .
to testify that there are the 30 years between prometheus and Alien and the 57 between alien and aliens .
abordoli
MemberOvomorphApr-30-2012 9:01 AMIn truth, everything was being made up as they went along so your argument has merit, Frantz.
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