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Tetrarch42
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 8:49 AMSo I generally enjoyed the film, but I felt it had a couple issues which broke the suspension of disbelief for me:
[b]1. Shaw's Squid Baby/Proto-Facehugger Growth.[/b]
-I understand the gray goo has amazing transformative and mutagenic properties but how did this things grow from at most 10 kgs. to at least 150 kgs. in a couple of hours in a sealed room? Growing from sperm cell size to 3 month foetus size makes sense given that the parasite was growing from Shaw, but this doesn't work in a sealed room; where did it get all the matter and energy to grow so large so fast? You can't make mass from nothing. If the Engineers had this capability they would be pretty much omnipotent.
[b]2. Terrible Mission Design.[/b]
-It's a trillion dollar operation but the mission had like a dozen flaws. Why did it have so few security personnel? Why didn't the scientists have an armed escort? Why weren't there guards posted in the corridors? Why didn't they send out remote controlled probes to scout the base? Why weren't the scientists ordered to wait until the dust storm had passed before exploring the ruins? Why not set up a forward base with communications equipment, a fall-back point, et cetera. I understand it isn't a military operation but shouldn't it be handled as such given the environment and risks are pretty much completely unknown.
[b]3. Unrealistic character responses.[/b]
-There were a great deal of these. The geologist and biologist decide one of the greatest scientific discoveries in history isn't to their liking to they head back to the ship, that's dumb. What sorry excuses for scientists they are, these are the best Weyland the trillionaire can find?
-Relatedly, the expert geologist gets lost in the derelict spaceship, can't he use a compass?
-Halloway sees a worm crawling in his eye and begins to feel ill and he never goes to the doctor, that's weird, I would be panicking.
-Janek convinces Shaw and the crew members that the Engineers must be hostile, with the grey goo being developed as a bio-weapon in like... four sentences?
Those were the issues I identified. Maybe the DVD extras will patch these issues up, though then I'd feel a little jipped with the theater ticket purchase.
16 Replies
Tetrarch42
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 11:58 PMJust viewed the film again. The storm does in fact hit them by surprise though they really should have taken Janek's advice and waited till morning. Really, they should have stayed put and investigated remotely for at least a couple days.
And are you telling me that nearly 100 years into the future we have automated medical beds which can perform delicate surgery, spaceship drives that can travel inter-galaxy, and near perfect androids but the trillion dollar Prometheus can't detect a giant dust storm headed towards them? I'm not buying it.
spacyfreak
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 9:04 AMWow, one more man in this part of the galaxy THINKING... congretulations on that findings.
As said, with little changes / editings it could have become the masterpiece we were waiting for.
All these things you mentioned to often "remind you" that you sit in the cinema, it does not feel "real", you dont feel with them, there is no connection.
And at the ending, you feel like you saw somekind of "LOST" in space, and that does not mean any good - speculations, mystery-blah, opening huge doors, but behind the doors only questionmarks in alien-slime...
ShinobiX9X
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 9:24 AM1. Then i suppose you also had trouble with the chestburster in Alien growing fast from nothing?
2. Super Secret, and to the Unknown. Guess what terrible adventurous crew Columbus must have had. they weren't pretty boys.
Also It had to stay secret. So too much military etc isn't helping,
3. I felt with the ones i needed to feel.
4. I hate to say, but i had a small problem with the music :(. The rest made up haha
Tetrarch42
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 9:33 AM1. My understanding was that the chest burster grows by taking in energy and matter from the host, somewhat like an infant does but the chest burster does it very quickly. Makes sense to me. Also, while i think Alien and aliens are some of the greatest Sci-fi films ever made, they aren't perfect.
2. Military personnel are far more likely to keep secrets and follow orders than an arrogant jackanape like Halloway. If the guy who takes his helmet off in an alien environment just because the air is breathable can keep the mission secret, I'm sure elite soldiers can.
3. So you thought the reactions from the scientists were reasonable?
4. I did like the music, though I felt they overused tracks.
Xenophobia
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 9:40 AM@ Tetrarch42 to address one of your points, before the landing party departs the ship on the first trip to the temple one merc can be seen picking up a flamethrower to accompany the landing party to which Shaw asked the merc what he was doing what that and the man tells her he was instructed to go with them and provide security to the party but Shaw balks back and tells him that this is an exploration mission or something and that she does not want any weapons and the man smirks back and says "good luck with that!"
xenodochy
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 9:47 AMWhen you get Lost, you can have a Big Sleep. Remember that movie? The director, Howard Hawks, his writers and star, Humphrey Bogart, couldn't figure out who'd bumped off the chauffeur (they were comfortable with the other, what, 6 murders) so Mr Hawks duly telegraphed the writer of the source novel, Raymond Chandler, to find out who did do it. After all, the man who penned the original story must know. So Mr Chandler ponders the question, reads through his own work and smacks off a return telegram to the director saying, "I don't know."
It's a movie and it seems to have changed course now and again in pre-production if nowhere else. It had to get out to a deadline (remember "10-11-12") and make money in the interim. Has it got an awful lot of people thinking and publicly sharing their thoughts?
So where / if there are inconsistencies perhaps that gives a break from the sheer horror of the tales. Besides, all horror fantasies require apparently sane people to perform bizarre acts and driven people make mistakes. The oddest and most inconsistent thing of all is that it's 2012 and we're surrounded by wars, pestilence, hunger, death and the stable's still full. Where’s my spacecraft?
Tetrarch42
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 9:54 AMYeah, I understand they tried to handwave the absence of armed personnel in the exploration crew but it doesn't quite work for me. Isn't Vickers in charge of these decisions? She said as much to Shaw and Halloway. Why didn't she cut in and say; "Listen employee, either the soldiers go with you, or you all stay on the ship. Decide."
Also, it just seems like they could have used more soldiers over all, There seemed to be two, maybe three, sidearms and a flamethrower shared amongst the entire crew? Police cruisers nowadays pack nearly as much heat as that and they aren't investigating super-advanced extraterrestrials.
Why were Fifield and Millburn allowed to go anywhere without security?
ShinobiX9X
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 9:59 AM@Tetra:
I guess if the chestbuster can so can baby trilobite.
i don't know in Alien world how much military is privatised yet, and would be working for Weyalnd. but very valuable point.
Those 2 scientists didn't want to be there.
Anonymous User
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 10:01 AMPrometheus: Great CGI but plenty of loop holes, lazy script writing, bad acting. 4/10
Tetrarch42
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 10:02 AM@xenodochy
Your post confuses me a bit but I'll try and respond as well as I can.
Here are my contentions:
-I don't care if events or plot elements were changed in pre-production or to meet a deadline. I don't apply qualifiers to films; Prometheus had some weird plot and character issues, that's the long and the short of it. If the film requires a half hour of deleted footage to fill in said inconsistencies then it's overall quality if suspect.
-Genre is never an excuse for poor story telling. Whether it's Sci-fi/horror, romantic comedy, fantasy, autobiographical, historical, et cetera makes no difference to whether characters respond believably and how plot elements are explained. Ex- John Carpenter's The Thing had characters acting in very believable ways to the events of the film and the plot still progressed just fine. Doing a horror movie isn't an excuse to have your characters fumble in stupidity to progress the plot, if anything the character's motivations and actions have to be better explained, not less so.
Tetrarch42
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 10:12 AM@ShinobiX9X,
Again, I understand the Trilobite going from sperm cell sized to foetus sized very quickly because it can absorb mass from Shaw, like a normal baby but much faster. The same applies for the chestburster, it grows by absorbing mass and energy from the host. What makes no sense is how the squid baby grows to be larger than an Engineer in just a couple hours after Shaw removes it.
Where did it get the matter and energy to grow so large in such a short period of time? Can it process inorganic material to grow? Can it eat metal and plastic for sustenance and growth? These are questions the film needs to answer to retain my suspension of disbelief.
This is somewhat explained with the chestburster growing into a xenomorph after only a couple hours in that the chestburster replaces it's cells with inorganic material(polarized silicon) so it might be able to adsorb the necessary energy and matter from the environment, even from non-living things.
Hadley's Hope
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 10:45 AM[u]Why didn't they send out remote controlled probes to scout the base?[/u]
Because Holloway was in charge and wanted to open his christmas presents.
You think Vickers was in charge? Why? Cos she said so?
Weyland said different, and everybody knew that much as Vickers wanted to be in charge she wasn't. Weyland didn't say anything about her at all in his 'ghost' briefing.
If she was in charge, explain this -
She tells Janek to be at the briefing. He's not there.
She tells Shaw and Holloway not to interact with anything before reporting to her. = They bring a giant dead space head back in a bag.
She had to enforce quarantine with a flamethrower, not by authority, even the cargo guys ignored her when she said not to open the door. (and these asshats open the door again for Fifield... totally disregarding Vickers desire not to let anything onto the ship which might kill her.
[u]
Why weren't the scientists ordered to wait until the dust storm had passed before exploring the ruins?[/u]
The storm was detected very shortly before it hit. They were already in there.
aliceayers
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 10:51 AMhaha yeah that was an excellently stupid point of the film (which i overall loved):
Shaw: [i]what are you doing? leave all weapons behind! this is a SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION MISSION!!!![/i]
ohhhhh okaaaay. so a couple cave paintings is all it takes to convince Shaw that there's a 0 chance of encountering anything hostile on a never-before-explored planet.
mall cops are more prepared :)
Tetrarch42
MemberOvomorphJun-13-2012 4:04 PM@Hadley's Hope,
If Vicker's had no authority then it reinforces my point about the mission being poorly designed. This is a ridiculously costly mission, both in time, scale, money, and effort. If the woman who says she's in charge has no authority then the mission is poorly done. They essentially funded a mission with no scientific or security oversight. That's... unbelievable?
I'm fairly sure they knew about the approaching storm before they set out because there was mention of starting out in the morning; and Hollaway moves out anyways.
AZ
MemberOvomorphOct-23-2012 2:18 PMWhile I agree there are definite inconsistencies thus discussed I am surprised no one has pointed out what I thought was the largest one: we all know from Alien that the Engineer/Space Jockey was supposed to be seated in the pilot's chair in death... so why in the hell does that proto-Xenomorph burst out of him in some random corridor?
I suppose one could argue that maybe someone/thing comes along and puts him there or that another infested Engineer comes along and attempts to use the systems but this is not explained.
That and we know from the earlier parts of the franchise that this planet is designated LV-426 but I seem to recall from the briefing they had designated it LV-224. Did I see a different planetary description? Did the Weyland corporation re-tag this planet LV-426 in order to brush everything under the rug only to, later when merged with Yutani corp., to attempt a covert recovery?
Devianteist
MemberOvomorphApr-21-2014 2:42 PM@AZ- To address your thoughts AZ, the planet Prometheus takes place on is actually a different planet than the one seen in Alien and Aliens. There are articles around about and maybe an interview or two that explain this. Blame FOX for this.
Deviation is not shameful. Conforming is.
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