Titans, not "engineers"

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Mangler7

MemberOvomorphJune 17, 2012

The engineer who commits suicide at the beginning...as you have probably figured out by now...is Prometheus...of the Prometheus legend. The god punished for sharing fire with man. For sharing the fire of creation...by creating man...and endowing him with the future ability to create beings in his own likeness. Sacrilege. Blasphemy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUxdAWrsag8 Now Prometheus was a Titan. Not just a god. Zeus...was a god. The Titans are the fathers and mothers of Zeus and his brood. So this was no mere godly indiscretion. This was an affront to the other titans. The punishment needed to fit the crime. When you watch the execution of Prometheus in the beginning of the movie...and the ship is slowly taking off...you know there is a whole contingent of Titans on board who came to see this 'wrong' punished. And they came in person... a multitude of them. Prometheus would be torn apart...reassembled...torn apart again...and reassembled with a spark of his awareness accompaning each dissembly and rebirth. Such a death would be an abomination to a 'scientist'...a proud being...punished for the application of his brilliance, executed from the core of his massive pride. And he went to his death with the knowledge that his fellow titans had every intention of wiping clean the planet he had engineered. Earth. The planet you see is Prometheus' resting place. The gigantic face you see in the cave is a reminder to the other Titans ...that some things are not worth the price. And of course to the earthlings that make it that far...it is bait... to keep them there and more curious...curious enough to stay long enough to wake the sleeping giant and thus engineer the death of their own race by enabling the pilot to make his trip to earth. The depth of how the Titans feel about the earthlings seeded by Prometheus can be seen in the scene where David is translating for the humans. The titan astronaut quickly ignores everyone else, looks at David...puts his hand on David's head. He clearly realizes they were right in subjecting Prometheus to a brutal death. Not only are these seedlings smart enough to come looking for their maker...but through David's existence the Titan sees cancerous evidence of the true abomination of Prometheus' gift to man...to endlessly commit the same crime Prometheus was sentenced for....by further creation of beings in their own image. His contempt for these abominations explodes finally with severing David's head and culminated in the scene at the end. His ship has barely crashed when no sooner is he seeking Elizabeth Shaw's life. The rage on his face that these monkeys have kept him from finishing his mission (temporarily) shows when he comes for Dr. Shaw. I think that if Shaw had not made her lightning fast decision...things would have gotten really ugly. I think he had real punishment in store for her, the last human. And he would have taken his time with her. And I think Shaw knew this too. The alien being given birth to at the end is clearly the progenitor of the alien species. It is clear then to me...that the entire alien series is basically a spin-off that we have been watching...and that this story is the true story. All the life on the planet is Prometheus in all his glory. Prometheus engineered a race of beings in his own image...and in return his brother/sister Titans re-engineered their brother into races...of beings...all lower life forms as a reward for his hubris. Clearly the Titans dislike any competition for godhood and above. So ithe crashed, derelict spacecraft on LV-426...another planet in another system...from the first alien movie was another craft ready to deliver death when something went wrong. And it is clear now how WEyland/Yutani later was able to interrupt Ripley's ship and crew and divert them to LV 426 and begin the whole Alien saga. Peter Weyland would have kept the details of this mission, especially where they were going...but some raw data would have been sent back to earth.... just enough data for them to know about ships carrying dangerous cargo but kept from seeing the big picture.

Mangler7
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June 17, 2012

Copypasta from another site. It helps to watch YouTube trailer of guy pearce explaining it in further detail. 3:06 long trailer

Hadley's Hope
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June 17, 2012

That's a fair exploration of the myth, but is the myth a red herring? This sacrifice scene is shown first, much as Genesis comes first in the bible and 'explains creation'. But ignoring the subconcious link there...and the one planted by the viral media, esp the TED talk, which isn't in the film... Why do we assume that this is Earth being seeded? [u]The alien being given birth to at the end is clearly the progenitor of the alien species. [/u] Yeah, except for the one engraved on the rear door of the temple. Or is that 'prophecy'? And what about the painting on the ceiling - the one that mimics the Cistine Chapel... a humanoid- less muscular looking than a space Jockey, and something that looks halfway between human and xenomorph.

Charles Austin Miller
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June 17, 2012

No, it's not just a cut-and-dried reference to Greek mythology. Ridley Scott made it abundantly clear that he was evoking Judaeo-Christian mythology, as well. By the way, Prometheus was NOT a Titan... He was the SON of a Titan. Which made him considerably LESS powerful than Zeus. Which is how Zeus could level punishment on Prometheus for ENLIGHTENING Mankind. Similarly, the Archangel Lucifer was NOT a god; but he, too staged a revolt against the ultimate Creator. Lucifer, too (it is assumed), ENLIGHTENED Mankind, much to the displeasure of God, who punished him eternally for his transgression. The story of Prometheus and that of Lucifer are mythologies cut from the same cloth — both are about demigods who DARED to defy the ultimate Creator, thus contaminating Mankind with godlike awareness in the process. I mean, you can't IGNORE the fact that Ridley Scott repeatedly focused on the Christian Cross in this film. He didn't do that just for the secular sarcasm of it... This story is going to eventually attempt to explain Judaeo-Christian mythology, but in the context of Greek and Egyptian and every other ancient mythology, as well.

Hadley's Hope
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June 17, 2012

[u] This story is going to eventually attempt to explain Judaeo-Christian mythology, but in the context of Greek and Egyptian and every other ancient mythology, as well. [/u] You don't think that's just him feigning left to go right? He might well be spinning more tales than Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects. And only when the story ends do we realise... wait a minute... I got suckered!

BigDave
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June 17, 2012

We just dont know about the Mural... It either depicts something they worship, or something that has happened in past.... or it is like a prophecy. The Deacon at the end could be the Progenitor or not, again its left open. The movie is filled with clues that on one hand suggest the Xeno existed before and on the other not. Ridley and Lindelof had spoken that the movie was where mommy meets daddy and about the Progenitor.... but then we also have the other clues that suggest maybe the Xeno had been around for a long time. Ridley has not given us a direct clue or answer, all he has said is that there are another 2 movies before we get to Alien.... As far as Prometheus Myth.... i dont think the Sacrifice Engineer is as such. They did a scene where the Elder Engineer passed the the vial of Black Substance to the Sacrificial Engineer.... If there is a link then it must be in my opinion... 1) A break away fraction of Engineers took the Black Substance/Fire from their home world Ancestors/Creators. And used it to create life on Earth without the consent of the other Engineers/Creators. 2) The Engineers obtained the Black Substance from some other species or being and their experiments and creations are all a act of steeling or using something that they was not supposed to do. Maybe the Xeno is where they obtained the Black Substance from.... The punishment is that maybe there continued use of the substance ended up creating something that then wiped them out? Because the only real Prometheus connection i see as far as steeling Fire is what David had done and what the Corporation of Weyland would have ind intended to do with the secrets of the Engineer race.

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Ingwar
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June 17, 2012

Prometheus was Titan who molded human from clay ans stole fire from God. That's correct. Following that logic Engineers are like Prometheus, a Titan. That means they are NOT GODS. 'Someone' (Engineers' Maker?) created them like they created us. And 'Someone' also punished them. For what? We don't know. Or maybe human beings did something wrong 2000 years ago and made Engineers angry? We don't know that as well. Too many questions. We need to wait for extended edition and for sequel.

BigDave
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June 17, 2012

As far as religion goes i think Ridley is not going the route of Gods and Titans, just making up a race that Ancient Man interpreted as such. I think the closest connection to what Ridley is trying to do is the Anunaki in which case the Engineers could be a race created by another race for some purpose and that maybe Mankind was created to replace the Engineers for the same purpose after some Engineers revolted against the higher order.

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artyoh
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June 17, 2012

What the characters believe, and how they choose to interpret events and information is one thing, but Ridley Scott isn't about [i]to lend credence[/i] to any particular religion, religious ideal or mythology in this story. It's all window dressing. Our human predilection for assigning meaning and purpose to everything isn't only a device he's using to add textue and play with us, it's something he views as a weakness, IMO.

allinamberclad
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June 17, 2012

@BigDave "As far as religion goes i think Ridley is not going the route of Gods and Titans, just making up a race that Ancient Man interpreted as such". But if he's using actual Human history as a direct/significant template for the interactions of that, "race", with Humanity, wouldn't that be exactly what he's doing - just by proxy? I really, really don't think he should touch it, either way, but, if he did what you're suggesting, (if I've understood you correctly), he'd seem, to me, to be slightly better off just going ahead and saying Jesus was an alien - rather than suggesting there was this alien who we regarded like Jesus, who was around at the same significant time and did the same sorts of things and had a similar sort of influence and was almost a Jesus but wasn't - he was an alien.

Hadley's Hope
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June 17, 2012

@artyoh, I concur. While to some, the fact that Shaw outlives everyone, and the two strong skeptics in the film , Fifield and Milburn, are the first to die, prompts them to think that the religious aspect is being favored. However, of our strong believers, Weyland gets a fatal blow to the head, Holloway gets infected and then toasted, and only Shaw survives. Remember that when she asks David a question (and she is DIM at this stage not to use the words "Tell me exactly what you know about..." in every question to him) she interprets the cryptic vague answer in line with her worst fears, (an apocalypse on earth as foretold in Revelations.) I've argued elsewhere, that this may not have been the mission at all, but a routine run to earth with a bit of casual body snatching.

Hadley's Hope
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June 17, 2012

[u]But if he's using actual Human history as a direct/significant template for the interactions of that, "race", with Humanity, wouldn't that be exactly what he's doing - just by proxy?[/u] Who is using human history as a template for the actions of the race to go down the route of gods? Weyland called the ship Prometheus, based on HIS beliefs. People read a lot into this film which is not conclusive, but rather they are seeing little references to earth myths, and taking it as proof. As I pointed out in a thread on [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8321]alternative interpretations,[/url] the whole thing could be about slaves, experiments, and body snatching. It could just as well be interpreted along the template of human history in the Slave Trade. Snatched from Africa, brought to America, new language technology, culture, the largest ones bred to make stronger offspring for manual work, add in some DNA tech to that, and you got giant grey guys with no body hair . Depends what you're inclined to believe.

Rubirosa
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June 17, 2012

I like your theory @Mangler7. I think that Ridley is just taking a little fron here, and a little from there to create his own world. If you follow the movie correctly you will see that it is really a Jeet kun do. That word ( Jeet Kun do) is what martial artist Bruce Lee named his new form of self-defense. It is the sum of all the good quality's that all martial arts contain. In other words Ridley has taken the most interesting parts and stories of the major world religions and myths, and created this his own world. By the way @Charles Austin Miller, Prometheus wad indeed a Titan. He was the son of Lapetus who was a brother to Cronus. And if you know a little about Greek mythology then you would know that Cronus was the kimng of the Titans and father to Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Hades and Hesta. Prometheus also had three brothers who were Epimetheus, Menoetius and the most famous Titan Atlas. Who punishement was to hold the earth on his shoulders. If anything if you still do not consider Prometheus a Titan. Then at least he's a god. But a Titan he was.

Charles Austin Miller
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June 18, 2012

****SPOILERS*****SPOILERS*****SPOILERS*****SPOILERS [u]You don't think that's just him feigning left to go right? He might well be spinning more tales than Verbal Kint in The Usual Suspects. And only when the story ends do we realise... wait a minute... I got suckered![/u] Well, Ridley Scott MAY be suckering us to think he's going to reveal some "great truth" about human mythology, tying together all the very ancient religions and folklore of Mankind; and, frankly, I think he IS committed to addressing that premise during the course of the [i]Prometheus[/i] franchise. However, I think Scott is actually steering us back to his lifelong fascination — his [i]love affair[/i] — with the question of [b]whether or not androids have souls[/b]. Look at Scott's great sci-fi, space fantasy films, in which we're always faced with the inherent [i]humanity[/i] of our machines. Manmade fabrications that WANT to be human, and machines that struggle with one-track dedication to the mission or loyalty to saving their human masters. Manufactured SLAVES that not only think, but that [i]feel[/i]. I mean, Roy's dying soliloquy in [i]Blade Runner[/i], for example, is like a eulogy for all Ridley Scott androids: [i]I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain...... Time to die[/i] Early in [i]Prometheus[/i], we are shown David the Android's fascination with human thinking, human memories and dreams, the human ability to switch our feelings on and off at will. David even has a favorite Peter O'Toole film. Yet, in the crew's orientation hologram, the elderly Peter Weyland makes a POINT of humiliating David, stating that he [i]loves David like a son, but David HAS NO SOUL[/i]. Yeah, I think [i]Prometheus[/i] is setting us up for Ridley Scott's final comment on where Androids stand in the hierarchy of SPIRIT in the Universe. So, in the [i]Prometheus[/i] franchise, I think he's taking us on a ride to answer NOT the ultimate spiritual questions of Mankind, but the ultimate spiritual questions of Androids. I mean, I will put money on the notion that Ridley Scott is going to reveal — perhaps in the first sequel — that God is a Machine, that WE organic life forms are products of a cosmic experiment gone wrong. That, perhaps, Androids are closer to God than are we humans.

allinamberclad
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June 19, 2012

@Hadley's Hope I was replying to @BigDave? Read?

Titans, not "engineers"

Mangler7

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