A Queen Engineer?

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCca5mPMp9A&feature=youtu.be]Toto[/url]

Anything is possible, really.

Interesting concept. I totally wouldnt mind seeing some female/queen Engineers. I think we almost have to assume that as a species the Engineers have 2 sexes because they gave rise to us, so there must be females. My guess is that they do, but their social/cultural structure is much different, perhaps with even more intense factions than there are amongst us (they ARE supposed to be violent f#ckers, afterall)... I'm just so tired of speculating, and want a novelization or something to help steer us in the right direction, heh.. and we still have a long wait before part 2.. *facepalm*

I really wouldn't think Ridley would go down that Creepy Crawly route. God i hope not anyway!... Although i do think he should take more inspiration from H R Giger's Necronomicon for the Sequel. Novelization Now!

*facepalm*

Yeah, I agree that there is so much speculation out there and few facts, so almost anything is possible. Of course, that's what makes it so much fun, though I have to confess I'm in Japan and just saw the movie last weekend for the first time, so all this speculation is still new to me. Gotta wonder if Ridley and the other authors are gonna use some of the ideas they get from all these feeds for part 2! If so, let's speculate away!

@tjvanhawk. Probably not a good idea. We all know which monstrosity of a Film came out of Fanboys imaginations, don't we? Yes....AvP!

@ david: facepalm seconded.

I'm a little confused as to all the facepalming.. Am i being mocked? Anyway, yeah, speculation can be fun. My only concern is that i've heard some really good ideas and i might get upset if they dont use them, heh. And i doubt they gather ideas from us here because they probably established an outline for the entire 3 films before filming even began. So i'm more interested in dicsussing what we HAVE rather than trying to guess where they are going with it.

Killer Queen - gunpowder, guillotine: dynamite - with a laser beam. La-de-da, de-da, de-da..... Anytime.

Clad: nice touch Sir, nice touch. Joeyjoe: We should ask Chris to make a Gif for facepalm material.

In the old movies we never see what happens at the very start of a life-cycle... We never see what happens to get the first Queen and eggs going. We never see the old order. It's like the chicken and the egg question. We don't know exactly what happens when there are no eggs or no Queen present. Humans either weren't there to witness ("Aliens" doesn't show the full outbreak), the genetics are already following the egg method when we arrive, or we don't get to see exactly how the hive/eggs arise. We have some hints in the original that when alone the xeno genetics may be able to reproduce and morph in different ways (the morphing cycle) to attempt to form a hive and offspring. This may be a parallel with the Engineers. These may be remnants/examples of a different pre-queen order of reproduction. There was definitely some morphing going on in Prometheus but it was a more direct form of morphing without eggs. And we never saw the full Deacon go on to morph anything yet, but I strongly believe the black liquid has even enhanced its ability to breakdown and reorganize things. It may turn out that we never actually saw the entire life-cycle in the previous movies: we never saw exactly what precedes the Queen as a Queen grows and starts her life-cycle (minus AVP:R where eggs were already present and Queen genetics were ruling). A queen may need some protection, just as a king might need followers/protectors. That's where Deacons and Drones/Warriors come in. Sorry to bring up the bug thing, although Ridley did originally base part of the creature on insect reproduction methods. I propose what happens with the sexes in Aliens is more like what goes on with Preying Mantises... "A king has his reign and then he dies... it's inevitable..." Before we see the Engineer Queens, and a true alien Queen, we will first need to see what will come to be called a King Alien on film…. But he inevitably dies as the queen gets her offspring and chance to rule. He’s gone before the egg laying takes over the full morphing based life-cycle to create a more organized hive. The Alien king genetics takes over where the old dead Engineer king left off in changing/morphing the xeno genetics back to their pure form. I don't think the Deacon is a queen, but it's like a Queen or a king. A servant class that’s more dedicated to the rulers, almost in a religious way. A servant to the royal class that's different from regular Drones, and uses the morphing based cycle because of what the goo has done to it. It’s basically a servant/follower of the king and queen genetics that basically can't die (well it's very hard to kill unless you use fire on the remnants)... it regenerates and morphs. There may be a little bit more of that death/resurrection theme too. But when the King arises and finally dies, that's when chaos completely reigns for a little while. Then come the Queens, the female Engineer Elders who take the reigns back from the Engineer Kings and the Engineers. And the queen genetics/egg laying cycle that becomes dominant. There may be a few steps in the chaos between where other kings try to step up the throne before the Queen is produced. But here both sexes can reproduce on their own (which will be another parallel with the Engineers), only in different ways. The females are dominant and rip the head off the male after offspring are produced, what happens after ties into this too (this is hugely symbolic to many of the themes in Prometheus). By the time the Queen arises in the genetics and has its offspring, the king genetics are already dead. That's why we've never seen one before. "A king has his reign and then he dies... it's inevitable...” By the time we see the Queen the King is already dead and his reign has ended. However the male genetics are still within the eggs, but now the female genetics are at the forefront and dominant, making the egg laying take over. Making the hive follow a more logical and more effective way of reproducing. Leaving them the ability to morph/reproduce at the start of a life-cycle under the right conditions, and when a Queen isn't present. The genetics till retaining the Queen side of things, however and victims are morphed into eggs instead of into some sort of monster directly. Because whatever becomes the queen and lays eggs could be almost carrying both sides of the sex traits that allow them to reproduce. Why call them Queens if there's no sexual differentiation in mind, or full hermaphrodites going on. No the only males pop into the lower classes at this time… Only the female side is aloud to control things and thus we've always seen alien Queens so far. The Engineers are the opposite of this.... So far we've only seen male Engineers in charge and Engineer kings/Elders in the behind the scenes stuff. Eventually a Queen arises and takes her rightful place on the thrones, replaces the kings, and runs a less chaotic/violent/dangerous form of hive/kingdom building. To start the main egg laying life-cycle in the Queen alien’s case.

ugh why doesn't it let me edit sometimes? *In the original Alien the genetics are retaining the Queen's side of things as dominant, and victims are morphed into eggs instead of into some sort of monster directly. Like Fifield was by the genetics in the black liquid. It's all about morphing and breaking down/disintegrating and mutating entities to create new life, or a new order. As the King genetics may do to get things started even faster, in a more chaotic way. Before the Queen genetics take over. We don't know exactly how the male Engineers reproduce, but we have good reason to assume they're clones of each other, like we sort of are of them. Did they always reproduce this way? If they're us, was there originally sexual differentiation? Are they slightly hermaphroditic and do they contain both parts of the sexes in some way? ( Some of the early Engineer concepts support this) What came before their current method of reproduction if the sacrificial Engineer has been made to be like a seed that can produce more? I really believe we will see Engineer Queens and an Alien King eventually...

"I really believe we will see Engineer Queens and an Alien King eventually..." (mala'kak) god no.

ALIEN KING?????????? ENGINEER QUEENS???????????? WHAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTT??????????????????????????????????

You can't see exactly how it ties into all the new themes they're creating yet, and much of the old ones. That's ok for now, I know people who were a part of planning it on Fox's end. People who have only told me so much. I could be wrong on some points, but I don't feel/think that I am I have to leave much out. I want it to be slightly unbelievable for now. The shock factor will be greater later when see a massively tentacled Alien King. Big things have small beginnings, but the king will inevitably die. It's how the new life-cycle will work for the aliens... Ridley wasn't planning on treading old ground from here on out. It's about new ideas and injecting new ideas into the old order (even though it's loosely inspired by the same comic that is really responsible for making the Engineers/Space Jockey's smaller, it wasn't only a scale thing, one comic in particular has inspired much to come) Although there will continue to be a lot more familiar things. This franchise is more like a parallel story, as Lindelof said, explaining what goes on without the presence of a queen or eggs, and between movies. Prometheus started this, and the genetics went back to the morphing based cycle because they had been diluted in the black liquid... hybridized with it. So maybe the King will only arise from the dead engineers in this instance, because of a greater reliance on morphing, but because of the thematic framework it's where this is all leading before the queen and eggs come back in. It's almost better for people to not be on this train of thought right now, not seeing how it ties into the king/kingdom theme Prometheus has created, the themes in the greater series, the androids and engineers etc. Maybe i have been saying too much too soon. Paradise is all about reversals and things most of us don't see coming. And might be more effective that way. I'm starting to think that from all my inside sources that are springing up from my one main source and the things i've figured out on my own, that I'm gonna know everything that happens in Prometheus before they even show us too much in the trailers. So I've taken to doing what David does in the movie. I purposely leave stuff out, don't reveal certain things, and add my own artificial feelings into my statements, which are true, but can sometimes be taken in more than one way, hiding even more of what I'm explaining. Because I let my feelings/theories and hidden knowledge base guide my analysis you'll never know how much I'm truly reporting and how much is my own theory/extrapolations based on what I know/feel. I also feel almost a sense of guilt like David. I can't ruin the movie entirely years before it comes out. But I've started now because the blu-ray and the deleted scene title "Paradise" will change our perspectives slightly long before the sequel and relaunching. That's why we cant trust David, he almost has feelings. And most of the time science should stay separate from feelings/beliefs when making observations or conclusions. He also lies and tells the truth at the same time by being ambiguous like the movie is, and refers to multiple things at the same time to get away with it. A prequel and not a prequel. Sort of a hybrid. Straight-forward in the basic plot and murky at the same time. All David's lines are meant to be taken in multiple ways after we get more context.

double post

For all intents and purposes the Deacon could be the progenitor of a young King instead of a Queen. A class that is based on the morphing cycle.. and acts much like the goo does. We may see Praetorians later around the time the king dies when the hive it starts to build becomes more organized, and a new ruler steps up. The reason I compared this part of the life-cycle to preying mantises is because the female cuts off the head of the king, and feeds the king to the offspring he just gave her. Very much tied into the decapitation and knocking the king off the throne theme started in Prometheus. When a king dies a new ruler will step up and the kingdom/hive will inevitably change. It ties into all the repeating themes in Prometheus too. Civilizations/ companies also go on to change and reform after the head dies, when new leadership is allowed to reign.

It's a male patriarchy and irresponsibility of the people in control thing/ formation of multinational corporations/ empires too. Common in Ridley's films. But here it's about the change in management that ineviatbly happens and how that affects things/how future groups are corrupted, or changed by the power that comes along with ruling. It's also about the reverse. The breakdown on Empires and kingdoms, to go on to form new kingdoms, new civilizations and cultures from the remnants of the old order, when recombined with new elements. It's about freedom and control. chaos and order. logic and irrationality. science and religion. Knowledge and belief.. All tying into the formation of the Weyland-Yutani corporation, a new form of order for the old system. More like an empire than a kingdom, and in the xeno's case after the king dies, the queen genetics are capable of starting new hives easier with the female reproductive method. The king genetics are just faster and more chaotic and quickly starts the hive faster before a stable Queen is produced. But not necessarily more efficient.

Haha. Bloody nora. First the Alien is compaired to a Bug and now an Engineer being compaired to a Bug. What next? David8 is actually half Bug, half Toaster Oven? I think the Giant Alien Bug thingy has been done to death! No more, please!