Prometheus 2 - A War Between The Engineers?

Quote: [i]This franchise went so off the rails from the lovely uplifting horrific ENTIRE BODY RIBBED FISTING festival that the early Giger-inspired film promised. Where's the 'adult exploration of Alien sexuality'? Man, I'm sick of films for teens to watch. Give me back my 'adult cinema', ffs. And you all know what I'm talking about; those classic films like The Thing and The Fly and even Ichi The Killer or Audition or The Hunger, something with a bit of bite; a spine.-Custodian[/i] @Custodian; The movie went in a different direction than Alien, and honestly didn't like that either, however I didn't let that upset me for very long because I realized it was based on the original ideas Ridley had for Alien . Also, that scene in ACM is merely an easter egg, it's nothing to be concerned about really. I didn't even see it in my playthrough.

Svanya, indeed, that script would be a good read. Thanks.

Here ya guys go!! I am pretty sure it's the correct one. :D -->[url=http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/alien_early.html]StarBeast[/url]

Yeah, that's the one I just found, too - you're too fast. :) Here's an interesting bit: [i] Broussard stumbles over something. He shines his light down on it.[/i] [i][/i] [i] It is a large, glossy urn, brown in color, with peculiar markings.[/i] [i] Broussard stands it upright. It has a round opening in the top, and is[/i] [i] empty.[/i] [i][/i] [i] Suddenly, Melkonis lets out a grunt of shock. Their lights have[/i] [i] illuminated something unspeakably grotesque: A HUGE ALIEN SKELETON,[/i] [i] SEATED IN THE CONTROL CHAIR.[/i] [i][/i] [i] They approach the skeleton, their lights trained on it. IT IS A[/i] [i] GROTESQUE THING, BEARING NO RESEMBLANCE TO THE HUMAN FORM.[/i] Reading on just a bit further, it seems this version is where the URN ROOM and the HELMET OFF AIR-BREATHE scenes originated. And a PYRAMID. Interesting.

to me prometheus wasnt what i expected, but i didnt realy know what to expect. I didnt see ridley scott making a ' creature taking them out 1 by 1 ' sort of movie. I was slightly disappointed by the space jockey being a humanoid, at first anyway. but once i thought about the idea of him being human and all the possibilities the more i like it. And actually think its a better idea than him being a alien species. Prometheus is an enigma of a movie, wasnt perfect, but still bloody good. I think what ridley did expanded the alien universe and take it in a different direction, for the better i say.

Svanya, the game was 'in development' longer than Duke Nukem Forever. Well, yeah, it's important, because I LOVE FILMS and don't like where they're going i.e. pandering to the Twilight crowd.

@Custodian; Yes I know it was in development forever, I waited years to play it and it was VERY disappointing. No excuse for it being terrible either, but I don't let it get to me. At a certain point you gotta just chill and put things into perspective. Prometheus wasn't that bad, certainly not bad enough to lose faith in the whole movie industry. I don't know what to say tbh, because I can understand your distress and I feel terrible this has affected you so negatively, no movie is worth getting this upset over. :/ All the movies you quoted were from the 80's, are there no recent ones you can name that you enjoyed?? If not, maybe you need to remove your "Nostalgia Goggles" awhile, I know I had to. :D [Center][IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/2luf03l.png[/IMG][/Center]

Nostalgia Goggles is why Prometheus was made in the first place, no? ;) Anyway, I've not been back to this website for months, and maybe I shouldn't have returned.

No not really. Nostalgia and Nostalgia Goggles are 2 very different things. Anyways, feel free to do what you want. I hope the second Prometheus movie pleases you more than the first did. :)

I think Custodian is trying to tear off the nostalgia goggles that Prometheus glued to Custodians face. I'm simpler of mind, if the movie had tainted my interpretation of the story, I think I would have been able to separate the two. I do agree that Prometheus was more in keeping with current trends, but that's about getting a $150,000,000 film made. A more adult direction is not out of the question for the sequel though. Also not likely. This is blockbuster territory, the rules are more stringent. Personally I'd rather have a big glossy RS epic than none at all. And they did make a daring film, in a different format. Svanya, you said long ago that you had been excited for a new 2001, and I think that we actually got one, within the above mentioned parameters, being conservative corporate thinking, passage of time and the fact that this is set in the Alien universe. "2001 on steroids" RS said, to my mind steroids meaning berserk. Custodian, keep an open mind. I found that ACM Easter Egg to be silly too, but I think the big talk on the part of the developers about meeting with RS does not mean he signed off on that " shoot out at the SJ corral " as you hilariously put it. And remember, the canon is always safe in your clammy heart. No offense, my heart is clammy too. Like Boris Karloffs groin.

@custodian: how on earth did you take the easter egg scene in ACM and turn it into a scene that is going to be in P2? how did you get there? there's no reason to think that such a scene will be in P2. You dont honestly think that ridley designed that little easter egg do you? My experience with prometheus was/is similar to the experience that has been articulated by some of the other members. The film was not what i was expecting. I digested what id seen after the initial midnight viewing, saw the film several more times....Ultimately, i found myself utterly engrossed in the film. Not what i expected; instead, a lovely surprise. Love it or leave it. I dont give a damn which :)

The war thing has been flying around the air for ages way before the game anyway - I believe its a very strong contender for part 2 due to the good and evil versions we have seen of the engineers. Though Ridley did say the more evil looking ones are just the evolution of the one we see at the start just naked. And The angle could be that different engineers or should I say elders because I believe the elders are the ones in command have different ideas about the perfect being (good or evil) - and I do believe this is all about the perfect being due to that reference to the overman/superbeing in what is 10 11 12 before it disappeared. They are seeding planets and letting them evolve with guidance to then absorb there best features - maybe through the black goo. Maybe there is one superbeing somewhere running the show and it is only it that really evolves this is why we never see the engineers change much. Least I hope its something that makes sense. And yer Prometheus was no were near as good as alien I am with you on that custodian .

Also, Prometheus is not new at all, its actually based on the original ideas Dan O'Bannon and Ridley had for Alien back in 1978-79, but because of time constraints and budget reasons they never were able to make it like they wanted. Everything in Prometheus, the urns, pyramid, storm and murals are in Dan O'Bannon's "StarBeast" script. In Dan O'Bannon's original screenplay the eggs were meant to be discovered in a pyramid, but it was re-written so that the eggs were found in a silo/chamber underneath the pilots room of the derelict Engineer craft. And in the script the eggs were originally urns and the SJ played a more prominant role than the Xeno did. Exactly the same stuff as what was shown to us in Prometheus. So yeah this isn't a case of Ridley selling out to a hipster writer to appeal to a younger audience, it's him going back to his original idea from 1978. Lemme see if I can find that script for you guys. :D

@Custodian; SEE! Told ya! It's crazy how much of that old script is in Prometheus. Honestly, I really thought everyone knew by now that Prometheus was actually StarBeast. I really did. :/

Not that I necessarily believe this, but I thought it could be an interesting way to look at everything... if part of that script is planning to be used going forward, namely that the Engineers and the urns/pyramid are not connected. In other words, the Engineers didn't make them, but rather stumble upon the pyramids, then build a "laboratory" around what they find to develop weapons or just advance their own race. [i]This is the part of the script after they go to investigate the alien ship on the planet, Broussard stumbles on an urn, they find the skeleton, then go back to the ship to analyze the head, then find the pyramid on a separate scan, head to the pyramid to check it out, Broussard goes into the pyramid (which they call a tomb), sees heiroglyphs and more of the urns and eventually has the facehugger get him. The crew gets him back on board the ship and analyze his datastick to see the heiroglyphs inside the pyramid, the urns, the urn opening and the facehugger jumping out...[/i] STANDARD You know, it's fantastic -- the human race has gone this long without ever encountering another advanced life form, and now we run into a veritable zoo. HUNTER What do you mean? STANDARD Well, those things out there aren't the same, you know -- the spaceship and the pyramid. They're from different cultures and different races. That ship just landed here -- crashed like we did. The pyramid and the thing from it are indigenous.

@Membrane; What's not true?? That IS the script Prometheus is based on, trust me. All the answers anyone is looking for about the movie and possibly the sequels are in there. :D

Yes star beast spilt into graphic novels as well and all along the elephantine race basically found the xeno and thought it could study it but its over confidence was its demise - kind of the ultimate evolved living species xeno vs the highly evolved technology of the elephantine race / SJ and thats kind of what I loved about the xenos - the shock that we think our technology makes us almost invincible but here comes these xenos with no technology and they own! The xenos in the novels had evolved for millions of years on one of the most violent and harshest planets you could think of. I was hoping that part was going to be in Prometheus but no :( .

When you delve into the history of Alien from Starbeast to the unused and deleted concepts of Alien you will see just how many of these ended up in prometheus. For example, the Puppies concept. The original Idea was going to be done back in 1978 for Alien! except they were to be called 'Mice'. The bridge of the Prometheus is based on an early Ron Cobb design for Alien. Quote: [i]"Also, Prometheus is not new at all, its actually based on the original ideas Dan O'Bannon and Ridley had for Alien back in 1978-79."-Svanya[/i] What Svanya said is correct. Read the book of Alien and other resources and you'll see for your self.

The custodian is here to clean up the mess apparently. Why would he let crappy Easter Eggs from Colonial Marines game get to him. What he doesnt realize is that the Engineer concept of them at war with eachother was part of the original ideas for over 30 years now, They were a race that almost killed off there species using the aliens as a weapon or harvester. Its just like the old addage "All civilizations rise and all will fall". They made a huge mistake just because they were at war with eachother and made the ultimate weapons and it blew up in their faces. Now humanity wants a piece of them and wanted to know why and where they went. Im so glad Dan O'Bannon made this awesome and very classically designed script. Even when you try to say "Its a LOVECRAFT based story" I say horsepucky for all its intended purposes it still came out ANCIENT ALIEN-esque. NO MATTER HOW YOU SPIN IT!

woou,i dont see this script i must to read it and to reread my alien book after 5 years,i have what to make until paradise will be in the news ,thanks guys ,prometheus ideas 30 years old cool ,something about paradise can be the answer there???in past time??

@Claudius; I just posted it on the first page of this conversation/thread. It's called StarBeast. Yes, its all the original ideas Ridley wanted to use in Alien but could not at the time. :D

this forum never sleeps?on this forum more discussion that entire the all forum from scified!what did make prometheus movie its unbeleveble. nobody expect maybe RS!very cool

@claudius; Yep, we are busy bees here at Scified.com. We are really lucky to have such great members here. :D

Enjoyed exploring this thread, many thanks...

Svanya, so then Ridley did have on [b]his[/b] Nostalgia Goggles for STARBEAST? :) But did I hear the Xeno vs Elephantines, comment? interesting...

The only war that I've seen is between fans and haters...joking. :D With the thread, well, it's just a video game. I've never taken as canon this game, and I don't care what FOX has to say about it. The issue of war may be possible, but not in the way so hilarious and ridiculous that we see in this easter egg. But in the case of Ridley Scott, the truth may be more surprising than fiction, then who knows, maybe there is no war.

@Custodian; No ya silly!! It means Ridley was just lazy and used old concepts that were already written down years ago. XD Like I said before, Nostalgia Goggles are different from Nostalgia or being Nostalgic. Totally different things, like night and day. Nostalgia Goggles give the wearer tunnel vision when it comes to objects from their past, such as cartoons, video games, books, movies rendering them unable to enjoy anything new because you constantly compare it to the original. Trust me, I have worn them myself while playing certain video games.

Svanya, once you've played the glorious 1080 Snowboarding on a tiny little Nintendo 64, everything else just feels BLOATED beyond function. :)

A point in favor of Cameron (despite the space marines lol) is that he can write his own movies and doing new things, instead of using the leftovers from the past.

and in honor of the nostalgia I called you @Free Planet :D

[i]Svanya, once you've played the glorious 1080 Snowboarding on a tiny little Nintendo 64, everything else just feels BLOATED beyond function. [/i] LOL! Indeed. XD Srsly though, the real problem with this movie is it is a reboot essentially but it wasn't released as a reboot so it makes no sense when compared to Alien franchise as it is today. Its a totally different movie, one that was based on ideas Ridely had for it decades ago. It's as if the new Star Treks were taken as linear, people would be so confused and it would bomb. What happened with Prometheus is no one said its a second timeline, parallel universe, etc. and so it makes little sense to the viewer.

Yes 'muddled' I agree and lots of reviewers said the same...

in fact, the ending of Spaiht's script felt a lot like the ending of John Carpenter's The Thing; you know, a pair of protagonists both unwilling to lower their weapons until the other one cracks. A classic mexican stand off. I'd have prefered it just got to the Juggernaut, as an end sequence, which probably means that (from page 60) onwards I was 'unsupportive' of Spaiht's narrative choices. Sorry. What else, though, I mean, in a film that cost $200,000,000 to make could you do? A Ganesha-like race of space truckers, as featured in the comic canon for 'decades'? Shirley Knot, reporting. And anyway, the whole Engineers monkeying about with pre-modernman DNA doesn't make any sense at all because it's a break-down process, and an alien dna i.e. scarab/goo, rewrite. It would be UNIQUE to humans, and this is clearly not the case, genetically. Certainly NOT when the tested Engineer DNA is THE SAME as human dna, I mean, come on, there's no likeness (and we have ears, and we're two meters tall only). Von Danicken's wacky Planet-X-like ideas don't pass muster, and neither does this one. In fact, the only idea that works for the pre-Alien movie is A NEW IDEA - one that gets us to that Space Trucker haulin' that cargo. Nothing else. :)

@Custodian; That's the thing, it's been pretty clear for awhile now that they will not be showing that at all, there will be no direct links to Alien and that they never intended to show a link. That's been pretty much confirmed again with Lindelof's comments that were posted yesterday. It's a movie made parallel to what happened in Alien. Also, I totally agree, when you read the scripts Lindelof's is far more sophisticated if you will, Spaiths script falls flat imo.

Svanya, 'fall flat' was a little too harsh, though Spaiht's shouldn't be the screen version of teh Alien Prequel. Plus, it's POINTLESS for Shaw/Watts to throw herself into a machine and request a Caesarian(!) has she no idea of human anatomy? In Spaiht's version David facehugger's her, meaning it went in her lung or stomach! Now, if Spaiht had just let Holloway EJACULATE in her, [b]then[/b] have the chest rip sequence. Now THAT would have worked i.e. she would have had his black sperm in her womb. I still think you could have maybe salvaged a decent HORROR film from the Spaiht script but the INITIAL NUGGET of Ridley's original desire to revisit LV426, "The giant in the penis-chair, and his eggy cargo," wasn't addressed BRAVELY ENOUGH. It was too referential, too homagic to Space Microbe theory. Just as long as they don't have put-put laser exchange between light and dark alien spaceships in P2, I'll be less back-tooth-grindy. :)

@Custodian; Well your teeth are in for a treat, because I don't think that will happen. If anything it happened in the past, who knows...

Will the Prometheus Universe be SPACE OPERA? With everyone talking Space-english? That's my point, you know, for the kiddies, cos the kiddies need to MK Ultra-adopt all that used to be horror-for-adults, and I'll list them here: Twilight (used to be vampire horror starring Christopher Lee, cert X) Wolverine (used to be body horror like Hellraiser, cert X) Video Games (used to be 'video nasties' i.e. BANNED for psychopathic content masquerading as art) Gah!

I can see there being an engineer vs. engineer war, but it's more likely to be a case of a new race using advanced robots against the engineers and their allies, which may be seen.

They can't stand robots. The engineer in the movie attacked when he realized David was one, and just for that apparently.

Well yes thats the way the movie seemed.... But the Full Scene, that was never shown (deleted scenes) and when Translated gives more of a indication to why the Engineer flipped. It was not just a case he hated us, and then hated we created a robot. It was more detailed than that.