Why the prejudice against xenomorphs?

If Ridley Scott says 'Alien-y', he could just mean more strange and more mysterious.
Prometheus gave us answers on the questions of the Space Jockey but it also gave us a lot of unanswered questions what I think is a good thing.
Prometheus is really similar to Alien in a lot aspects. When they made Prometheus, Ridley Scott said he feels like he would make Alien again.
But I don't want to count all aspects now but the differences. In the film Alien there were narrow or you could say claustrophobic camera rides.
The USCSS Nostromo supported also the suspense. In comparison, the USCSS Prometheus
was completely clean and not narrow because Ridley wanted to do something different.
Another Alien-y aspect is the thing that we saw just a little bit of LV-426 because there were storms and it was so cloudy.
In contrast, in Prometheus we got a nice overview of how the planet LV-226 looked like. Ridley gave us epic, beautiful and natural landscape shots. 

So in the end, I think the Alien-y aspects are the mysterious, narrow, cloudy, agressive and dark atmosphere.
In 2009 or 2010, Ridley Scott said that he will renew the alien design because it was sucked out. It is possible that we don't see xenomorphs.

"I think, therefore, I have to design — or redesign — earlier versions of what these elements are that led to the thing you finally see in Alien, which is the thing that catapults out of the egg, the face-hugger. I don't want to repeat it. The alien in a sense, as a shape, is worn out."
Read more at 

Source: 

http://www.nme.com/filmandtv/news/ridley-scott-two-alien-prequels-on-the-way/171884#V7TTeQZJ5zaRKjsK.99

I have no problems with that. It makes sense that there are no xenomorphs on the home planet of the engineers if the xenomorphs are bio-weapons.

Check here some other discussions out:

Who built it?
http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/25893

Journey to Paradise
http://www.prometheus2-movie.com/community/forums/topic/25600

I have already said that I have no worries if Ridley will direct it.

Hello Lemonade and welcome to the forum. While i agree with most of what you wrote, there are a few minor problems with bringing back the Giger monsters for part 2 and one major problem in particular, Which is:

We are already VERY familiar with the Giger monsters, we know what they look like, we know what they do, WE ARE PREPARED for them.

Ridley is an old school film-maker who knows that to make a good "Space Horror," or "Space Thriller" that grabs the audience's attention and anticipation for what will happen in the following scene's and leaves you wondering what that face-less menice looks like and what it will do next, is essential!

Their are many great concept designers in the world who could create a completely new look/asthetic/ design for a Giger type alien that has a different method of attack and propagation, which would suit Ridley's style of film-making i.e. keeping the creature in the dark, not revealing it fully till the end of the film. He got that spot-on with ALIEN, but he couldn't do that again with THAT creature because we are already VERY familiar with it.

I'm hoping that what they mean by "More Alien-y," refers to the feel and atmosphere of Alien, Aliens and Alien 3.

I also agree with you regarding the whole film being about nothing more than Shaw spending the whole time asking the engineers questions using David as a translater, that would be pure cheese!

I want a sequel with LOTS of tension. I want it to be dark and foreboding, a feeling that we really shouldn't be there and something really bad is about to happen, a completely alien world of which Giger himself would feel at home in. I want it to be repulsive in the extreme!

Good Post!

I agree the Alien is Awsome, its like the Perfect Alien Monster...

But you see we have seen them over and over and over, and while seeing them again could be great if its done right, it has all the potential to fail to live up to the hype and level that the Xeno captured in Alien and Aliens.

We also have Xeno comics, and games etc so its a Creation that has been explored and done over and over....

But we dont know how it was created, this i feel we would have to see at some point and Ridley would be better off doing so sooner rather than latter.  Its as i have said Ridley can not Garuntee he would be around in 10 years, or 20...

If we are not shown enough of how the Xeno came to be, then that leaves the door open for someone else to explore and answer it and it is a money maker doe Fox down the line and we could end up with our Xenos Origins being something that Ridley would turn in his grave over.

its for this reason that i feel he would cover the subject and i do think we would at very least find out what made the Eggs we saw in Alien and onwards.  And i think we could see also a Face Huger.

But i think the Prometheus Franchise has a lot more bases to cover, than just the Xeno and we see that in Prometheus well we dont have one such creature as the Xeno. What we have is a connection to a whole manner or related Organisms.  And i hope that at the very least we get to find out what Ancestor and Process leads to the Xeno. That we find out what the missing link would be.  It would be nice to see this lead to us seeing a Xeno or the Eggs but then they dont have to Necessarily show us them.... not as in a actual event that happens within the Timeline.

But they could show us at very least more clear clues than say the Mural and Frescos did.

The Xeno is not Dead........

Fox could do a movie that brings back our Xeno, in connection with the Engineers/Space Jockey at some point down the line a movie set thousands of years ago or more.

Likewise there is every potential we could see the Rise of the Xeno again in a Alien 5 set after the events of Alien Resurection.

And maybe they could reboot the AVP franchise so that it fits in with the Alien timeline just like the Video Games do as oppossed to the AVP Movies.

Ridley has started with Alien a franchise and I'm sure that there will be another franchise after Prometheus 2. Prometheus has two kids. One will grow up and becomes the Alien as we know. We don't know what happens to the other child/creature. I'm sure it will get his own film series...

Here is my prediction:

Lol your timeline amuses me 123Engineer. Still holding out for that xenomorph-less movie? Remember now, it is in fact PROMETHEUS that has two children. Alien, and this "other thing". Not Paradise. 

I know but it is just the title of the film. This timeline is in chronological order. The sequel to prometheus could open a door for another franchise. 

It's too late for "another franchise". We are two movies in deep. Enjoy your xenomorph qualities. 

There is no prejudice against xenomorphs, not from the fans, not from Scott.

Scott himself made it clear that he felt all those sequels to his 1979 film totally destroyed the mystery and the fright-factor of the creature. It's been done to death. It's been ridiculed in that ill-advised franchise called Alien x Predator. The xenos were tamed in Alien Resurrection. They were destroyed like bugs in James Cameron's film.

Long story short, the novelty has worn off long ago. Why build another movie on such a tired foundation?

Scott and co. have put an effort in creating a new universe, a new mythology that remains irrevocably linked to that beloved creature. Prometheus is an original thing. And good Lord, the Deacon is obviously a proto-xeno. But nostalgic fans refuse to acknowledge it.

Alien³ and Resurrection were box-office disappointments. Audiences have moved on. I'm afraid the number of die-hard fans that want a xeno-based movie are not enought to encourage Fox.

Let them explore the Engineers and the liquid mutagen. It's their turn now.

Thoughtful response Cremildo. But did the caesarean scene not garner a reaction out of you? They just need to put them in never before seen situations.

What do you think they mean by making the sequel more terrifying and Alieny?

My interpretation of Alieny is more life form threats and suspense. This could mean more Morbs ( my word for Xenomorphs) but then do we call all the new life forms Xenos as well? 

I too love the Morb but agree that it's been done. But in the context of a new Ridley Scott film it could still be thrilling. I'd say if we do see one it will be short and sweet, and presented for maximum shock factor, not as a constant threat. The possibilities are endless, I'm loving the new Morb creatures and if you look closely at the art of Giger you'll see that even bio tech can be frightening. There's a lot to look forward to!

I'm with you! I'd love to see at least a dash of Xeno in the sequel!! Especially with today's effects, Jesus it could be amazing!

i would be happy with a matured Deacon ripping people to shreds :)

Something Real- give this a look.

**

Personally, I disagree with the notion that the xenomorph as a malevolent cinematic presence is tired, over used or beaten into the ground, so to speak. I would contend that following its debut in 'Alien,' it has been grossly misunderstood, mis-used, misrepresented and improperly charactertized in every instance. Indeed,I would argue that we as an audience have not been given a proper representation with the exception of its appearance in the first film. The fault lies in what has been so widely noted in the failed plethora of Alien franchise video games: it is the notion that rather than the first film's slow burn Horror Science Fiction depiction of a haunted house, everywhere but nowhere, presence that hinges on suspence, tension and a total lack of predictability as to this creature's behavior; starting with Cameron's film, the xenomorph became little more than a rabid pack animal/bullet sponge with an insect-like hive or colony mentality. It became familiar, predictable and little more than a fantastically designed monster no more frightening than your average object of a bargain basement creature feature.

**Note that before I continue, I need to address 'Aliens' negatively to make my point. Some here will know where I'm coming from with this as I've discussed it here before. Others will undoubtedly lash out at me, but that can't be helped. To begin, I can and must say that as a stand alone film, 'Aliens' is unquestionably one of the best examples of the golden age of action films in the 1980's. The film is fun, entertaining and a fantastic example of practical special effects at the height of their use in cinematic history. However, and here drops the bombshell, 'Aliens' as Action Adventure Science Fiction was entirely the WRONG direction to take the franchise. It's as though Cameron completely misunderstood the aesthetic of 'Alien'. It seems more likely and especially if you read into his comments from interviews sampled in numerous documentaries on the franchise, he simply chose this direction because action was his forte. That is a complete disservice to the soul of the material; not to mention that his third act is essentially a skeletal rip-off of the first film's. That's beside the point. 'Aliens' was a paradigm shift in genres within a franchise and that is at the heart of the issue at hand.

The rabid pack animal/bullet sponge I spoke of earlier is what stripped away the fear. The xeno's behavior was now predictable, understandable or relatable to elements of insect biology within our own world and when your audience can apply that real world context to an alien creature's behavior, you cannot expect it to frighten them. In 'Alien', the xeno's behavior was, in nearly every instance, counter intuitive to what audience's are likely to expect from a silver screen monster: the stereotypical attack or kill on sight mentality. The xeno, instead, moved slowly, approached characters as though examining them, toying with them, killing in some instances and bloodlessly taking them in others and leaving nothing behind. It's intent was never quite clear and yet it exhibited a discernable level of curious intelligence that was undefinably creepy.

Audiences conditioned to a hyper aggressive threat know what to expect. We've only seen something to this effect in our lifetimes lived viewing countless films and hours of television. The monster in question always becomes one dimensional and that is precisely what happened to the xenomorph over the corse of three sequels and two Crossovers Who Shall Not Be Named. I would also contend that the under appreciated 'Alien 3' is the only other instance in which an attempt was made to correct this issue. The film succeeds in at least returning to a depiction of a tense haunted house, everywhere but nowhere, presence with its sole xenomorph, but it fails in that the creature's behavior is largely the same dumbed down, hyper aggressive, kill on sight, rabid beast with the sole exception being its decision to leave Ripley alive when it detects the queen inside her.

After all that, I just want to make the point that we've only ever seen a single example of a xenomorph that is frightening in how its displays a creepily curious and discerning intelligence, that stands tall and imposing over its prey, giving us the terrifying sense that there is nothing you could do in the presence of such a thing but run and hide.

Which is exactly why I am positively giddy over the prospects presented in 'Alien Isolation'. The developer seems to get all of what I stated here. Thet get and fully respect the aesthetic of 'Alien' and they've planely stated they want to bring it back to a time a place where it is a terrifying and unpredictable thing to behold. I believe they can, but one can only really hope....

CraigamoreNice post . 
That's why feelP1 and alien should really 
Only be canon as they areSimilarly spirited- dark and
Beautiful - they deserve toBe ridleys children. That'sWhu ridleys I fell should haveBeen full artistic freedom to 
Finish it the way he wanted too.Any way great post alien neverGot the sequel  it deserved ........

I have discussed this a number of times, and i feel the reason why in Alien the creature was more of a Horror element was because of the enclosed enviroment and the lack of military training and equipment the Nostromo crew had...

If they encounter the Organism in a more open space and was faced and out numbered by Armed and Trained Mercs etc then the Xeno would not be able to pick them off one by one.

The interesting thing from Alien was the Xeno had a agenda, it was a organism that had fear, it knew it could not go out in the open and it had to be stealthy, it was the only one of its kind on that ship and as the deleted scenes shown its Agenda was to procreate.

In Aliens the Xenos was clever they cut off the electric supply, they use the space above the ceiling to sneak upon the Marines.

Ridley had described the Xeno as being insect like before Cameron gave us the Bugs, likewise he also said the Space Jockey was a suit long before Prometheus to the dismay of those who view the Space Jockey as a Giant Elephantine Organism.

If the Xenos purpose is to procreate and this comes from Star Beast concept and ideas in that draft that Alien was based off, then Camerons idea of a Queen makes sense if these Organisms main use is to Procreate its kind, in which the Egg Morph scene makes more sense if its to produce a Queen.

Maybe the idea of how this Organism Procreates is not how Ridley intended to do so, if he made the Alien Sequel.... but not Ridley can use the ideas he had to be used with a new breed of Xeno.... or the Xeno's predessor and go that route of creating a new Horror that has Xeno connection but that behaves differently to the way the Xeno evolved on screen after Alien.

I agree with Lemonade about the sci-fi part being dark and creepy with mystery. I just dont think Ridley would even think of doing a submarine type warfare in space like star trek becausee its not that at all. Engineers probably do battle like humans do except with biotech and engineering black goo to suit their needs. I want to see the Deacon rip head off and start doing the killing one by one and then when needed go back to where Shaw and David are.

Honestly I love the creature too but dont make this an Alien-y movie in terms of the xenos just ET suspense and mystery with the Space Jockey race that what it was about anyway.

There are plenty of aspectes of the Xeno genus which we have yeat to see.  Growth wtages, resin creation, worker to Queen growth.... These areas Ridley could explore...

@Brego

Nah, that's not stuff I wanna see. Does anyone give a shit about how they create resin, or what they eat, etc? No.

I'm talking about stuff like Spaihts' David/facehugger scene.

I am very surprised that no one is thinking what is really possible now with 
special effects.

Look at the new work done on Transformers....a lot of that stuff looks incredible.

So don't anyone say what cannot be done. 

They could make a new Alien movie much better than the first no problem at all.

It could be very scary and dark. Put the right tools in the hands of the right artists and you can make anything! There is nothing that cannot be immagined!

@Lemonade

I for one would love to see the connection to the Resin and Xeno, and Engineers Bio-Tech as there does seem to be some kind of link to how the Xeno produces the Resin to build hives and the look of the contruction of the Derelict and Jugernaught and Engineer Walls and corridors.. And there is a connection to the Engineers Space Jockey Suits and Preasure Suits and the Xeno Bio Tech Exo-Skeleton.

I would like more to find what genetic and manufacturing connection there is between the two, as opposed to be shown here is a Xeno Egg and wham... Xenos on the lose.  The only clue we need to Alien as far as the same kind of Xeno we see in Alien Franchise is simply how do the Eggs come about, once we see how they are made/evolved or laid etc etc, then we know the rest!

Well Lemonade, id definately like to see resin creation. Id also like to see growth stages, skin shedding etc etc. There are plenty of canon ideas which we have yet to see....
Another idea is the hierachy of the hive and what would happen where different hives meet. Does a Queen require fertilising? 

Also as we are looking at other worlds with probably a number of native species we could see a number of different Xenos... The possibilitie are endless, along of course finding out why or how in the first place the Xeno species came to be. Accident or by design.

Yes Brego it would be interesting but then we would see movie that is well in essence another Alien movie...

I would actually hope they go a different route and uncover that the Engineers/Elders must have came across some Organism, or something else that they used to borrow and create there Bio Tech from and that the Xeno is one of many experiments created from dabling with what ever they found.

We could thus get a explanation and clues to how come the Engineers Bio-Tech and Xenos etc are related.

It does not even have to be a creature, it could be some kind of machine, or even some kind of Substance.... but i dont like that route because well as the movie did try and imply that this Goo was the basis for all things including the Xeno and us, i just think it has holes in it as far as to how come Mankind carried Engineer DNA and Traits and not Xeno and how come the Organisms and events in Prometheus carried Xeno Traits and DNA and not Engineers etc.

My idea was that these Engineers had used the Goo to seed worlds as we saw at the Start and that what we saw in the movies is there Goo breaks down their DNA and acts a a Evolutionary Accelerant to Hyrbid their DNA with basic Organic Life and that what occurs is it passes on Engineer DNA and kick starts Evolution and Engineers come back to carry out similar experments and thus mixing of DNA untill the creation of life we have now occuried.

But they did this on another World, but this world had somekind of under water Organism, like a Correl and some kind of Crustacean/Cephalopod Organism.  The Engineers may had done this my accident by a crashing of a ship that spilt a lot of the Goo the Sacrificial Engineers used.

What happend was this then lead to the Engineers on the ships DNA being broken down and mixed with the Organisms on the World and what we then got was a mix off Engineer DNA and best traits with the Crustacean/Cephalopod Organism DNA and Traits, Engineers and the Corral.

What we got was some new kinds of Organism, and Hybrid Engineers and the Engineers was like WOW look at that and then futher Engineered and borrowed from this accidental creation and what became of it was the Bio-Tech and then a whole host of other Organisms.

This Crustacean/Cephalopod Organism mixed with Engineer DNA produce something similar to the creature in the Fresco.

I had not yet gone into detail of exactly the process and stuff as was just flashing about a number of things connected to a idea as above for my draft.... but what stopped me in my tracks was how to explain the Engineer connection with creation of us and why and who created them etc.... This was a BIG QUESTION that i had trouble focusing on one answer lol

So i abandoned my draft and ideas as around that time it was confirmed Ridley and Fox had signed on someone who had worked on a draft allready.

Good ideas Big Dave. I think we could get the best of all new ideas plus the the Xeno stuff we wanna see and havn't yet seen. i think if the Vagina Squid and the Deacon had been more biomechanical and Xeno like and les fleshy and animalistic, we Alien fans would have been fullfilled and left eagerly wanting more... The only things I didnt like about Prometheus (other than some rather un scientific, professional behaviour by some of the Scientists) were the creature designs. In my mind it beggers belief that Giger was'nt offered, used and ultimately allowed to re disign his masterpeice. What we got was slightly too divergent from the masterful creatures that we love...

having said that Im totally looking forward to two!

Giger had some input but then a few other Artists came on board and some of the concept work while they was going through Spaights draft before they got Lindeloff in and tonned down the Xeno elements.

Well the concept work was all very much Gigerish.... the Space Jockeys even looked more like the original.

I think they just wanted to dilute the Xeno DNA and this passed down to all aspects, mainly the Deacon as you see the Mural one was very Giger as it was Gigers work.  The end one was well less because it was supposed to be Human Hybrid after all...

I think the biggest disapointment as far as Giger feel and Xeno was Fifield... The Worms became larger and had that Alien look about them, they did not look like Worms no more.

Here is a Fifield that looked a lot like the Animatronic they was going to use, but then for some reason changed mind, so they just Toxic Avengered Fifield and then after they shot a CGI Alternative.

Here was Animatronic based on above..

And some other more Giger/Xeno Concept Fifield.

Yeah Id seen these designs, it was a shame that the CGI version of Fifield's return were a little animated looking, I understand why Ridley didnt use them in the final cut... I like the look of this version of Fifield, it is more Gigeresque... Pity it wasnt executed properly. As for the gigantic V-Squid, I hated it... I liked the body design of the Decon... But no tail... and I didn't like the mouth design... Loved the Engineers, despite the size issue, also the Silo interiors and other environments along with the Engineer's ship, all very Giger yet subtly updated...

Had a thought the other day that as the Xeno's seem to replicate their surrounding environment and host in some ways, perhaps the egg breeding senario is some kind of organic version of the Engineers vases, replicated genetically as some kind of dna copy, built to propegate. Maybe in the same vein as the Xeno's body details in some ways resembling the Engineers bio suits.... Just a thought. Maybe some kind of DNA memory....

A lot of people was not keen on the Deacon and felt it was way watered down too.

But people seem to forget the process...

In Alien the Chest Busters loook different because they come from a Face Huger which we have to assume is more pure Xeno DNA, this Face Huger implants a Embryo into its host and this gestates for a period of time before we see the Chest Buster which is not quite the same design as the full Adult Xeno, its starts of smaller but grows a considerble amount.

Now some Organisms on Earth go through changes from Birth to Adult a Frog could be a example and also a Butterfly.

The Deacon at the end of Prometheus we have to remember again came from a Face Hugging event only the Face Huger was Larger, but we also have to remember this Face Huger was not pure Xeno DNA Face Huger....

Nope this came from Xeno DNA that had mutated and evolved what we must assume was a Early Stage Fetus, well at very least a infection of Xeno DNA at the Egg fertilization stage.

So what we have is a similar Organism to the Face Huger only one that looks a bit different but is not 100% Xeno Face Huger.... it is a Human DNA and Xeno DNA Hyrbid Face Huger, just as Hammerpedes seem to be Xeno DNA and Worm DNA Hybrid and Fifield a Humand DNA and Xeno DNA Hybrid that the original idea was (Spaights draft) and how the other concept works looked.

So now we get to the Trillobite being part Human and part Xeno, the resulting Chest Buster would be part Xeno/Human too, as far as traits go.

Maybe thats why it has a Placenta, and why it has no Tail and why it has more Human Hands and why its teeth are more Enamel and not Metalic like the Xenos.  We have to assume as a Human Baby is near fully formed compared to its Adult Stage (does not change much apart from pupety and size). Then the Deacon would not alter much but also grow like a Human and thus be 3.5X the size when its fully grown..

If so well i am sure as Babies and Puppies lose their cutness and get larger, then the Deacon would have more menacing features and also stand about 18ft tall.

yeah Big Dave, I get that and you are correct. The original burster was a fleshy, pink long head with a tail...  The body design of the Deacon was very adult Xeno like and I thought was a great expansion of the original... And I liked the metalic blueish hue, but the pointy head, lack of a tail and weird joke teeth mouth I hated... dont start me on the giant hugger... The size made it less shocking and dramatic. I think one of the reasons that the original hugger is so freakishly scary is that it overly strong for its size and was agile and quick.

Lets hope that as the Deacon grows it grows into a spikey, hard, biomechanical and beautiful creature, like the one we love.