Xenomorph bioweapon

"I just can't accept that the Xenomorph was created by super advancedEngineers to simply be a bio weapon. It just doesn't make sense,with the technology humans have right now we can create a more effective bio weapon in form of a virus."

It might be that the engineers were part of hierarchy of beings and they themselves were subjugated to a higher race or stemmed from a higher race of beings and had the xenomorphs forced upon them.

hence they decided too "goo" a couple xenos on lv 223 for puposes unknown.

only conjecture.

but very defo i agree with the point you are making.

There is a lot that has not yet been covered in the Franchise.... Now you will have to bare with me as this could take some time lol

1) We first see in Alien the Derelict crashed carrying a cargo of Eggs and it looks like one got to the Space Jockey... but there is a flaw.. the hole burnt to the Egg Chamber and how we really only see in the Alien Franchise Xenos abble to make such holes when they are wounded and that hole was the biggest as any we saw in any of the movies, yet Chest Buster Hole was small...   Anyway could this hint something got down there after Chest Busting and Morphed something into Eggs...? Nope as that needs Hosts (Alien DC) What about a Queen laying them? Maybe but then how do we explain the Myst that stops the Cargo from being activated.

Nope at the time of Alien the movie seemed to go the route that this Ship was carrying Eggs that infected the Space Jockey... It was not clear why the Space Jockey had those Eggs or there purpose..

The Company wanted to capture a sample for its Bio Weapons division.

AFTER ALIEN

Had come out Ridley then confirmed the Derelict was some kind of Bomber and that the Cargo of Eggs was Bio Weapons it was carrying.

2) Aliens onwards the flesh out the idea more of the Xeno being a Bio Weapon, but then it also showed us a Queen laying Eggs, which is not a ideal Bio Weapon unless the Xeno have a Shelf Life and Die out when no Hosts left, leaving just Eggs. Even then that is a risky Weapon as far as retrieving the Eggs afterwards.

So as a Bio Weapon it was flawed as a Bio Weapon it had one use, that was to wipe out life, it basically was like dropping a Nuke... once you have used this Bio Weapon the only real purpose is simply

EXTERMINATION.....

The Land after using such Weapons becomes inhabitable and hostile. Thus not the Prefect Weapons if you want to take over the land afterwards, but surely perfect to simply Destroy the Planet etc.

3) Prometheus has tried to give us more back ground and we see the Goo in the Urns connected to the Xeno somehow and again Space Jockey/Engineer Ships used to carry Bio Weapon with intention of wiping some race out...

But there could be more to it than that....

The Bio Weapon is not a ideal one, the Space Jockey succumbed to his Cargo, so did most of the crew of Nostroma, and in Aliens Hadleys Hope colony and the Marines, in fact every time the company tried to get their hands on the weapon they fail and all it brings is death....

Before Prometheus we had to ask.... where are the other Space Jockey? did they pick up the Warning Beacon, are they all dead, did they live so far away and why in Aliens we never come across them in any movie.... Prometheus laid some clues for that.

In Prometheus again these Engineers as we find out the Space Jockey was... they too was working on something that could well be used as a Bio Weapon and once again it got the better of them, via outbreak on LV 223. The Goo and LV 223 is connected to the Xeno in some way.... We see again the Humans who come into contact with another weapon these Engineers store on their ships, as Cargo and they too also fall fell to it, from the mutation that occurred to the small worms into Hammerpedes that killed one of the crew, to the same substance that mutated another crew member who then single handily nearly killed all the crew.

To a small amount that made another crew member infected, get another pregnant and pass on infected DNA that produced the events that led to the Face Huger like Trillobyte that ultimately ended up proving to be the death of the Last Surviving Engineer (or so seemed) after he killed off a few more of the crew.

Bottom line be it the Eggs, or Urns that these Engineers store aboard their Juggernaughts/Derelicts are simply a Weapon or something that can be used as such that proves to hostile and deadly to be contained and controlled even by Mankind and the Engineers....

For what end and what price, is the price in cost of life and how both Humans and Engineers could not control or contain the Bio Weapons.. is this worth its limited application as a Bio Weapon.....?

The only true logical answer is........ NOPE! Not as a Bio Weapon, but that the secrets behind the connection between the Xeno and Urns Black Goo, holds something that is more than a Bio Weapon and the Bio Weapon is a Bi Product or/and a alternative way it can be harnessed but the Genetics the DNA, to the Xeno and Goo and the connection holds more keys and more value than simply the effects of rampaging Xenos and mutating Black Goo!

I HAVE A IDEA...

That i have covered before and recently, that i will another time go into detail with. I will roughly cover it now....

Xeno Eggs Created by Engineers from Scratch?  NOPE!

They are either IMO, something they had came across and was in process of trying to re-engineer end experiment on... Or they was something that happened as a result of something else they came across that they re-engineered or came across.

Mankind invented the Car we did not invent the Iron that as Mankind Evolved was later combined with Carbon to give us Steel.. Mankind invented Plastic but we did not invent the Crude Oil from which it is obtained.

What i am saying is the Xeno/Goo on LV 223 has a connection, but there is also some part of the puzzle we do not see, they did experiement with something that either made the Goo, or that came from the Goo or both... either way there is something else that gave rise to both that these Engineers i felt had found and not created from scratch.

The Deacon in the Mural could play a part in this but there are so many theories that could all link up to make the connection, its what one is correct? i will cover them another time.

One of them in a nutshell is that i think maybe by accident, the Engineers found out that some Organism related to the Xeno plus Engineer created a Deacon, this could been a suprise to them because they would give birth to one just no in traditional sense. But it is a birth none the less, and giving birth could be something these Engineers can not do, maybe because they are only one sex, or no sex or maybe also its only something their creators or ancestors could do.

Seeing a Engineer thus give birth with no womb, to a Deacon could to some Engineers had produced a Organism that they saw as perfect or that its DNA could be harnesses and used to futher be used in the creation of life..

The used Engineer DNA to see us, so we would have their genetics, the Sacrifical scene was a handy way to carry out this passing of Engineer DNA via the Sacrificial Goo.

A faction of Engineers via comming into contact with something, or via experiement on something must have led to a Deacon, maybe they felt this creature was remarkable, unlike any life that these Engineers had created via their methods and DNA.

Just as the BORG in Star Trek the Engineers went on to try and  assimilate this creation to use its traits to futher their own technology and creations. Somewhere down the line they saw the results of some Organism on their own..

Was the Deacon the first attempt or did others have different results but they kept trying to re-engineer and experiment until a Deacon in the Mural was created, or was this created first.

Either way these Engineers worshiped this creation and saw its DNA as a evolution of their own DNA and thus LV 223 could have been used to then re-seed and package the Deacons DNA into the Urns to then be used as a Evolutionary Tool, maybe to seed new kind of life on a new Worlds.. that they felt was going to yield better results than the seeding of Engineers DNA.

With mankind we was eventually maybe see as a failure and thus why not try this new process of seeding Deacon DNA onto Earth.

The Xeno is either a off shoot of some of these experiments or what can happen via the Goo, or its is what first caused the Deacon or oher creatures that was then re-engineered untill perfection was achieved i,e the Deacon.

Thus the Eggs was they being transported to LV 223 for experiments? or leaving LV 223?

This is open for debate....

If we dont go the route above, another explaination is was the Xeno some Weapon they came across, or created, or created from something they came across that proved troublesome and thus it was back to LV 223 and re-weaponize it to a safer form that can be stored more safer and has more varied application.

Basically one of those theories i feel is close, maybe the prior as the latter impies maybe the use is for Bio Weapon, as opposed to something they found that lead to something these Engineers saw as a improvement to the DNA methods they used to seed life.

There has been interviews with Scott pointing to Xenomorph bio weapons but nothing definitive. Certainly nothing defenitive in the movies. Also I thought the mural depicted a Xeno not a Deacon, there was a facehugger in the mural as well.But an interesting perspective.

Some continuity problems that arise from Xenomorph Weapon:

1:Why would there be a star map on Earth pointing to a military instalation?

2:Why would the company be so hell bent on securing a Xenomorph weapon as opposed to securing the tech that created the weapon?

3:Xenomorph inefficiency and impracticality as a bioweapon. You can plausibly create a much less complex virus that specifically targets humans that infects,spreads and kills on a much faster scale than anything the Xenomorph can do without any collateral damage.

This is how I cope with the inconsistencies.

1: The installation in Promethius is a planet seeding facility NOT a military installation. They mass produce goo to seed life as shown in the movie.The cave painting on Earth pointed to the facility that gave life to Earth.

2:Black Goo can only come from a Xenomorph, it's DNA altering properties is what the company is really after.The Engineers look at the Xeno as a god because of the Goos life creating properties, as shown in the mural.

3:Black Goo primary function is to seed life its hyper DNA altering properties can make it a dangerous weapon as a byproduct. The fire that Promethius stole from the gods is this goo.It's nonsensical for the goo to be primarily a weapon as stated above, there are more effective ways of destruction.


To further elaborate on how it all fits in my mind.The Xenomorphs natural DNA altering properties make it possible for it to infect any life form and incorporate it to its own DNA.This is how its able to take on the properties of its hosts. So the goo is just a synthesized concentrated form of this natural Xenomorphic property, if you will.

In the begining of Promethius we see the Engineer using goo as it was created to be used.It broke down the Engineers existing DNA and incorperated it into the planets existing microbial life bringing forth complex organisims.In Science a big question is how does complex life come from in complex life, multi cell organisms from single cell organisms.

The mutations we see in Promethius are a byproduct of the goo's concentrated form.It breaks down the DNA to fit with the Xenomorphs. So as a consequence it alters the lifeform and takes on Xenomorphic properties. We see the worm break the scientist arm in the movie with incredible constricting power much like we see face hugers constrict the neck of their hosts.We see Fifield taking on the agression and killer instinct of the Xeno.On the blue ray bonus they show an alternate version of Fifield where he looks more like a Xeno and less like a zombie.Shaw is impregnated by a Goo altered seed and it takes on the life cycle of the Xenomorph giving birth to a proto facehuger and leading to what in my opinion is a underevolved version of the Xenomorph the Deacon.

There is just no other way it can logically fit in my mind.

@Spaceace....

You my friend may be kind of on the right track as far as the direction they are going and as far as the Comic Also.....

I however had a different interpretation that is pretty much similar to the thinking behind Spaights draft, and one that also does not leave some rather puzzling elements..

For example the Goo comming from the Xeno or related Organism as in its ONE GOO, all the same principle....  How come the Engineer seeded his DNA and we dont see much life on Earth that has anything genetically to do with the Xeno at all....

The only Xeno DNA we see is from the Goo on LV 223.

The answer is in how the Sacrificial Substance works, i have covered this over and over and so dont want to go into detail but you can search for topics on the Goo and see my posts.

In Nutshell this substance breaks down the SACRIFICES DNA and building blocks for life that is merged with the Substance to produce a bi product a black bi product, this bi product when it comes into contact with any living thing, it will attack its genetic make up and mutate its DNA, passing on traits from the DNA this BI PRODUCT carries to the Organisms it comes into contact with.... This Bi Product then Evolves rapidly the Organism it keeps some of the best elements of this Organism and Evolves them and passes on DNA of the Sacrifice that became this Bi Product black goo.

Thats how life was seeded on Earth, its how Mammals and Humans and maybe most life on Earth Evolved, and why we match our DNA to the Engineers.

What we see on LV 223 is this Bi Product is stored within those Urns as opposed to getting diluted within the Water Fall as with the Sacrificial Engineer.....  The reason why this Goo in those urns passes on Xeno DNA Traits is therefore because it comes from a Sacrificed Xeno or related Organism.

The Murals pose is Cruciform, the Engineer in Spaights draft took that same pose before he was broken down by the Nana Scarabs... Had Lindeloff carried this over and had our Engineer make the same Sacrificial pose before his body was broken down, then the clues would been more easier....

The Form does not = Christ as in Mural is =Jesus or Worshiped as Jesus, Jesus is worshiped via the Cross for ONE REASON... The Cross is the sign of the Sacrifice he made on the Cross so that Mankind is not condemned but can be said as long as those believe in Christ and his Sacrifice for our sins.

The Alternative shot of the Altar in the Big Head/Mural Room had the Sacrificial Bowl and not the Green CGI Crystal... again pointing to the Sacrificial Bowl contents and producing a Bi-Product that passes on said Sacrifices DNA.

Onto the Mural Showing a Xeno not Deacon... yes it does look like a Xeno but not, it neither looks like the Xeno or the Deacon at the end of the movie, but Spaights and the production crew behind the Mural said it was of the Deacon.

This is not Shaws Deacon... it is not a sign of Prophecy... Shaws Deacon is different because hers is born from a Hybrid Face Huger, the Trillobite that attacked the Last Engineer was a Human/Xeno DNA Hybrid this is why the Deacon had a Placenta, it is why it had Enamel Teeth and why its hands and fingers are Human not Xeno. It is why it is born almost fully formed as opposed to how the Chest Busters look.

The Mural was a nod to Giger, it was intended to show us a Deacon that some how these Engineers on LV 223 worshiped for some reason, this does not mean as God, it could be as a sign of Perfection or even a Sign of Sacrifice to create something new... like the Big Head is a sign maybe of the Engineers to create us.

The Mural had Easter Eggs this was it showed two Bale Humanoids being Face Hugged by two different types of Face Huger neither was the traditional kind... Giger designed 2 Face Huggers before they went with a 3^rd design for Alien.. this Mural shows us those other TWO KINDS...

We can not be sure if they was merely Easter Eggs like the Egg and Xeno hands in the fresco that in the movie is in a state of being destroyed due to the atmospheric changes in the room.

But as we see them, maybe they have to now try and connect them to the goings on...

To me this shows these Engineers had came across something and as a result they either experimented on and produced a whole manner or Face Hugers, in the search for producing the perfect result and after many attempts they produced the Organism in the Mural.. The Deacon.

These Engineers then saw this result as PERFECTION and a faction of them now saw that this Organism born of a Engineer was a better DNA (Lifeform) than a Engineers DNA and they may have planned to use the Deacons DNA to seed as a new basis for creating life as opposed to using Engineers DNA... So they was in the process of by using the Sacrificial Goo to break down this Deacons DNA so as that it can be used to create a new kind of life, that carries Deacon DNA and not Engineers.

1:Why would there be a star map on Earth pointing to a military installation?

“The installation in Promethius is a planet seeding facility NOT a military installation. They mass produce goo to seed life as shown in the movie.The cave painting on Earth pointed to the facility that gave life to Earth.”

I agree to a degree, we need to look at what these Engineers in the opening scene was doing, they was seeding life with their own DNA on a primitive planet, Ridley said this does not have to be Earth....

These Engineers are genetic gardeners, the Fruit/Harvest and Flowers they grow are genetic life...   Earth is just one Garden and we can liken LV 223 to being well the Gardeners/Farmers House.

Its where they watch over us from, its where they create and maybe test and evolve life to then be planted/seeded in the Garden.... Why do they try and Terra-form the Temples etc? The Engineers could breath on LV 223 even if for short while, or maybe longer.. the Xeno does not need the same atmospheric conditions as life on Earth to survive.

The Sacrificial Scene does not show the creation of Mankind, it shows the start of a process that leads to Evolution over Millions of years that leads to mankind. Ridley said these Engineers had plaid a part in our Evolution over the years, thus they came back and re-engineered what they had been trying to Engineer over and over....   If you want to upgrade your Fruit in the Garden, maybe you could take some back to your outpost and Experiment on them trying to find which ways to better Evolve these creations, but for that you need a environment that they can live on, thats maybe why LV 223 is being Terra-Formed.

Once you have conducted a few experiments and are happy with the results, you then go back to Earth and replant them.

The movie indicates these Engineers had visited us over many thousands of years, they had plaid parts in our Evolution both Genetically and Technologically, the movie is hinting at the Ancient Astronaught theory thus they taught us how to build Pyramids etc....   David could speak with the Engineer, he was being shown to be learning Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) how could David Learn this and that it was a way to communicate with the Engineers.. Unless the Engineers taught Ancient Man the Proto-Indo-European language (PIE).

Why was there a Big Head Statue? In the Temple?

Could these Engineers showed us that they came from LV 223 to Engineer and Watch over us, these Engineers showing Ancient Man, we created you from there. Was it intended as a Paradise for us and was the Engineers Terra-Forming LV 223 so that when we are ready we can visit them and maybe thats why the Temple Used to have Engineer Head on top of it (The concept work showed many images of the Engineers on LV 223). The Big Head Statue to show us this is who created you.

Maybe? Maybe not but something happened in the past, these Engineers fell out of love for us, they started to not see us as the Prefect Creation that they had gone through all that trouble to create.

At some point maybe the accidentally came across the Xeno or a Organism related and as a result they then saw the creation of a new lifeform created and Birthed from the Engineers.

Maybe these Engineers had no Sex, maybe they could no procreate as we could. If so what if they had seen one of their kind get Face Hugged and produce a Birth, yes a Engineer giving Birth to Life with no Womb, and the result was something they wandered over, something they then saw as a more Perfect Life Form, maybe this Form was Prefect to them or they continued to test on the results and re-engineer until they produced the Deacon.

This Deacon in the Mural was now to them the Perfect Genetic lifeform, more perfect that our creation more prefect than there own Genetics... and they then saw that Seeding and using this Deacons DNA as the way they wanted to go about as opposed to using the Engineers DNA.

2:Why would the company be so hell bent on securing a Xenomorph weapon as opposed to securing the tech that created the weapon?

“Black Goo can only come from a Xenomorph, it's DNA altering properties is what the company is really after.The Engineers look at the Xeno as a god because of the Goos life creating properties, as shown in the mural.”

As covered in the other posts i am not sure the Goo as in the stuff at the start of the movie comes from the Xeno, maybe it does and maybe thats who they are going with it but then as i said in previous post this leaves errors.. such as why Earth has no Xeno DNA in its life?

Going with the question about why go for the Xeno in Alien, if the Goo on LV 223 is well a more better product to experiment with, LV 223 has many more secretes and Tech to be had than the Crashed Derelict...

LV 223 has many more un damaged Juggernaughts, many more is not a case of the one that David and Shaw left LV 223 in.....

So we have to ask.. why bother with the Xeno on LV 426, unless its as a Bio Weapon, when LV 223 has many more rewards.... why bother going after Ripley in Alien 3 or using her DNA in Alien Resurrection....

When LV 223 has many more rewards.... well by the time of Aliens LV 223 must be destroyed there must be nothing left to be had..

Throughout the movie franchise it seems the company purely want to get a Xeno and not Xeno DNA.... does this mean the company do not know about the goings on of the Engineers and how they seed life and the Urns? We have to assume they may have some knowledge but that by the time of Alien then the only thing left to Salvage is the Xeno itself.

Do they see what other things they could Engineer from a Xeno... its genetics has more to be gained from than using it as a weapon... maybe the Engineers figured out how to re-engineer and borrow from the Xeno..?

Maybe thats how they got their Bio-Tech?

3:Xenomorph inefficiency and impracticality as a bioweapon. You can plausibly create a much less complex virus that specifically targets humans that infects,spreads and kills on a much faster scale than anything the Xenomorph can do without any collateral damage.

“Black Goo primary function is to seed life its hyper DNA altering properties can make it a dangerous weapon as a byproduct. The fire that Promethius stole from the gods is this goo.It's nonsensical for the goo to be primarily a weapon as stated above, there are more effective ways of destruction.”

I have to fully agree 100% with all of this... and as far as the Prometheus... i also think that Prometheus is the Engineers on LV 223.

I felt that the Goo at the beginning was intended to seed their DNA to kick start evolution and these Engineers set up outposts to watch over their creations and further evolve them.

Questions now are.... was we created without the consent of the Engineers Hierarchy on Paradise? I mean how come they never came to check on what became of the Engineers on LV 223 and Earth...?

Unless they

1) Do not know about our creation.

2) They do but are not concerned with us as we can never get to them, but surely once David and Shaw reach Paradise they would be very aware unless David and Shaw do not get to Paradise for hundreds of years?

3) There are little or no more Engineers on Paradise, they killed themselves of had some kind of War and Rebellion with some Engineer fraction. 

The movie has been hinting at connection to religion, Ridley referred to the Engineers or was it Lindeloff? Anyway that our Engineers at the start was like Angels, and those on LV 223 Dark Angels.

This shows some kind of Rebellion...

Maybe thus this rebellion of Engineers had used the Sacrificial Goo (Fire) to create or experiment on something and use it in a way that it was not intended i.e create the Xeno or lifeforms based off the Xeno they may have came across and ultimately their price was to be burnt by the Fire.... The Outbreak on LV 223 and demise of the Engineers on LV 223.

Spaceace-

Great post and welcome aboard!

Bio weapons doesn't work for me either, except when you consider aesthetics.

Throughout history there have been leaders known for their cruelty. Power corrupts, yes? Mortals sometimes see themselves as gods and, further, see themselves as above mere consideration of the physical rights of their followers, and certainly their enemies. Fear rules. We see this throughout the Alien story and certainly in Prometheus.

Yes, we want an efficient weapon. But it's also good to have a truly terrifying weapon. Not just the Morb (my pet name for the Xenomorph) but its entire life cycle is just one horrible, uncontrollable thing after another, turning enemies into more of itself (much like a virus, but far scarier) and, in the vein of Galactic Terrorism, REALLY efficient.

So, if you see the infliction of cruelty as not just a necessity but an art then, yes, the Morb is a good weapon. But if that's the case, I don't think the Engineers are responsible. I think its whoever made them. I think they're living tools made to examine and manipulate the Goo, well away from their creators, and LV223 ( I keep forgetting the number, hope that's right) was the lab.

I think the Goo is a natural byproduct of the Morb, and part of the cocooning process cut from Alien. And, I think its made in the Morb's head. And, the Morb or something like it was discovered somewhere that was a dumping ground for the toxic waste of life making, or maybe a planet sized remnant of the birth of the universe. And, that the Engineers' masters are the SJ.

And, I need a new hobby.

I agree with alot of what you say @ Bigdave.

LV 223 being a sort of creation facility along with the religious undertones of the movie makes sense. Imo the theme of the promethius arc is playing god will lead to bad things. Engineers play the role of creator and get burned even if the initial intent may of been admirable. The main character Shaw will come to realize that playing god/creator is wrong even if it lead to the creation of humanity.This is why they made her so religious, imo.

However.....

"How come the Engineer seeded his DNA and we dont see much life on Earth that has anything genetically to do with the Xeno at all...."

How can you be sure that we don't see any Xenomorphic traits in Earth fauna? All the traits we see in the Xenomorphs we also see in many various species on Earth. We even have a parasite that bursts out of the head of an ant. In fact I could argue that we see more xenomorph like traits when considering all life on Earth past and present than we do human like traits.

Speculation either way and an interesting convo :)

@ Major Noob

Thanx :) Xenomorph bio weapon is more plausible in this context. However it still dilutes the creature in my eyes, I'm problably bias though.Yea, everything fits better if u have the goo come from the xeno.

@ Bigdave

I went back and read some older posts concerning your goo explination and it makes sense and fits what we see in the movies. Engineer based goo creating life, Xeno based goo = weaponized goo, I see no problem with this. :)

IT looks like David or other robots manages in secret Ysecret yutani and want to bring Xenomorphs to Earth to destroy humans and David was originator of the destruction of humanity
 

@Major Noob

Certainly having something that is more Terrifying is always a Advantage, in WAR having something that is more Horrific or a Faction who will COMMIT more Horrific Acts does act as a Better Deterrent.... 

FEAR is a Powerful Weapon and so the Xenomorph may have that over using say Sacrificial Goo Bombardment... but if the Effects are like we see in Prometheus on LV-223 and in Alien Covenant on Planet 4 then that Bio-Weapon can be Horrific also.

Looking at the Xenomorph... then if we go by the Engineers or David had created it then maybe the SAME reason applies and that the Creator has a STRONG Dislike towards who they INTEND to use this on, while also taking Great Pride in their Experiments to Create a Perfect Killing Machine so their Agenda and Reasons goes BEYOND merely to KILL.

Regarding the Xenomorph being the Source of the Goo and all Experiments,  i think that SHIP has SAILED a while ago.

However... it could be that some other HORROR that Predates the Goo is the Source of the Goo... Certainly.

@Michart

I would not be Surprised if that was the Plan of Ridley Scott where it could be not only that David is in Co-hoots with W-Y but that A.I actually Runs the Company without most of Mankind and its Employees in the know.