Is SHAW the EGG??

2. Ridley chooses to capitalize on a juicy theme that is very ripe for harvest. Simply, what happens when an emancipated AI ponders the reality that there is an intelligence higher than that of it's creators?

Great post QES :)  re. the quote above - it could be said that the Engineers created David in a roundabout way; in that they created us and we in turn created David.  

I'm being a pedant I know but this could be something that affects David's view of his creator and subsequent behaviour . . . 

Unless you refer to a higher power/intelligence than the engineers?

Another possibility: It could be the ampules become eggs.

Remember, when they first encounter the ampules, they start leaking. Is this because of an atmosphere change, or because they smell humans?

David observes this and says 'Organic'. Is he talking about the liquid, the container, or both? 

David also observes the top of one Ampule liquefying and moving. 

It's possible that the ampules are a mechanized, stable form of egg.

@ aorta. Thats a good idea! Not dumb at all. 

Is there someone here that have a high res photo of the alien in the ural in Prometheus. The thing on the wall / ceiling?

@ Aorta. I have had thoughts on a similar line myself. One of the consistent features of Alien and Aliens, was the clear jelly like stuff that would be found were a Xeno had been. When David opens one of the urns there appears to be the same stuff inside, which makes me wonder if there is a connection.

@Aorta - I think that on the Weyland viral site it talks about the ampules being made up of, essentially, sand stone and that they need to be just less than a metre apart to keep the goo active for long periods.  Apparently the markings on the outside are specific instructions to this effect . . .

There's also a mention of this on the MUTHER site that was mentioned on here but I can't remember what I typed to get the info.?

Ampule or Vases perhaps?  Black Goo gave an interesting response also

Myrddin365,
I think what you say is possible though I'll note a few things.

Whether the film will present the xenos as something new or something engineers have dealt with for a "LONG" time is something I find debatable. You are correct that the mural DOES appear to show a morph with something of a crown very similar to what we know of the Queens head gear. I also see the facehuggers on humanoids and something I could imagine being a representation of an egg.

That being said, the mural does not have to be a historic record of something that has existed. It could be a blueprint or a depiction of engineer prophesy (something they hope to one day achieve)

The only other indication we have that live xenos predate this is the AVP movies (which I believe Ridley doesn't acknowledge) and the statement from Ridley himself about the Derelict being thousands of years old (a statement which he is free to abandon in favor of more creative freedom)

I would personally love to see the events in Prometheus end up being the kickoff to the genesis of xenos though I can see your view being equally likely. It really depends on what significance Scott wishes to assign to the mural and the eggs on the derelict (unless I've missed something aside from this???)

Furthermore, first Queen or 10 millionth, it still seems plausible something along these lines could end up being Shaw's fate.  I don't believe Scott chose for her to bear a facehugger without a reason.

Whether Shaw continued to generate eggs/facehuggers in human form or David offered the trans-formative powers of the black goo (perhaps to save her from starvation), I couldn't see any reason why she isn't still alive either as some type of mutant/queen-hybrid/pseudo-queen or as an egg factory (as Deep Space suggested above).

EDIT: I should note here that if you are correct, I see it being possible that Shaw and David reached the planet with the eggs already present and Shaw got facehugged, then later died via chestburster. This is the most predictable scenario and also the most boring. But quite likely assuming you are correct about the long history of xenos and engineers

MU/TH/UR says the last stage of the alien life cycle is the Queen. I doubt we will see egg morphing.

We can't rule out egg morphing, but there are more than one egg in Covenant. Whether or not that was how Shaw ended up, we don't know.

However, looking at the leaked set photos it almost looks like some eggs are larger than others, as if they have grown and are continuing to develop.

I'm not a huge fan of the Queen Alien scenario but we can't ignore it. Perhaps the egg featured in Covenant is a Praetorian egg? Watch the homepage for a little insight to this possibility soon.

Perhaps Shaw became an Engineer? ;)

The size of the eggs is something I find intriguing. When the crew of the Covenant arrives at this planet, we are told they are met by one survivor, that being David. This does not automatically mean that when David arrived there were no others around, such as Engineers. One of my suspicions is that the size of the eggs represents the possible size of the host, if indeed egg morphing has occurred. I know this is only a wild speculation, but maybe a larger host such as an Engineer would yield a larger egg.

...but then you have to ask, is it reasonable to believe David is capable of subduing the beings that tore his head off with ease and left him incapable of any kind of mobility?

Deep Space,

Just noticed your comment on the idea that David is now following the example of "higher intelligence".

To answer your questions, yes I am talking about the engineers and, good point on his true creators. Technically it would be the engineers wouldn't it?

I imagine him now almost resenting humans for the feebleness of their designs compared to that of his true parents.

Batchpool,

Are they different sizes? Or is the difference in their appearance a matter of depth perception?

Chris
I think the egg morphing would be a huge stretch and could really damage the credibility of the film unless it was well explained in a very crafty manner.

That being said, the idea Shaw becomes an egg is incredibly disturbing and I would be officially creeped out for decades.

If they can pull it off, I'm on board.

I have to say I am still very worried we're going to get the most boring scenario which is that Shaw was facehugged when her and David happened upon the eggs and was killed by a chest burster.

I am probably out of the loop here, but can anyone tell me if we have confirmed for certain that David will have been doing experiments with the black goo? Also when Ridley commented that Shaw technically doesn't die, was this recent or before the final revisions were committed to the screenplay?

@QueenElizabethShaw I saw one poster speculate that her hypersleep pod has been damaged so that it functions, but won't open. Maybe David didn't have a chance to wake her before the Engineers crashed their ship and unleashed the goo, and now her pod won't open and David has spent the time since the Engineers died out to try to find a way to free her. I like this theory. A more tragic/sinister possibility is that she woke up, found out the engineers are dicks before she gets a facehugger and after she does, David puts her back in hypersleep and asks the covenant to take her. 

When they wake her up something new bursts out of her chest because of her black goo exposure AND facehugger innoculation. And now it's on the covenant with the crudup's proto xeno offspring... Just spitballing

Myrddin365,

Would the Engineers have been the ones to crash it? Or did the Deacon show up? In the recent interview with Fassbender, he went out of his way to say "as far as we know" when commenting on Shaw and David being the only ones on the engineer ship voyaging to "Paradise".

So the final scene where the Deacon bursts from the engineer...could this have actually occurred before Shaw and David's departure? Did it stow away when we weren't looking?

@ QueenElizabethShaw- "In Prometheus, Shaw bears a neo-facehugger which when removed from her was contained in a liquid filled sack."

When the sack burst it squirted fluid onto and into the surgical site prior to being stapled. Maybe that caused her to mutate somehow but I highly doubt the movie will address that. Just saying.

Given how the film was shot, the most likely stow away would be another engineer in cryosleep elsewhere in the ship. That would cause quite a wrinkle. I firmly believe there are engineers in Paradise when Shaw and David arrive, but not the covenant. Not many agree with me on that, but it's all that works in my twisted mind.

@Shasta cyclone

The Star Maps... who knows... its been debated a few times so i wont try go into detail...

They was showing where Outpost was... and seems not as a invitation..

Here are some possible explanations.

*The Maps are misread... the location is Paradise, which is near by LV-223... Map is same system... just the Prometheus arrives at the wrong location.... David could have something to do with this...  LV-426 is thus Paradise.. (i dont buy) or Paradise is within that Solar System.

*The maps may have been a invitation by the other Race/Group of beings... but the LV-223 Engineers have since taken over and they did not invite us.. 

*They are a Warning by a other Faction to not go to that place.

*The Place is where we are created and experimented on... these are Genetic Gardeners... Earth is the Garden or one of many and that LV-223 is just there Greenhouse/Nursery where they experiment and evolved life and when pleased wit the results they seed them back to the Garden.

This is why its Terra-formed... this theory is my personnel preferred one..

The Engineers are showing us were WE come from....

The Engineers like to showcase and show off their achievements and the Star Maps were never intended to be a invitation... because Mankinds was never intended to ever Evolve to the Level to ever be able to get to the Location..

Again thats the 2nd part of the explanation as i see it.

"Does it then stop emulating it's creators and begin emulating the higher intelligence?"

Possible to a degree yes.

"If Holloway's black sperm overhauled her reproductive system, is she now making facehuggers like a Queen? Popping one out every few days?"

The Trilobite was a Hybrid Face Huger, part Xeno/Human... the sack and umbilical cord is just to show its not all Xeno DNA its Mammal too.

This is a very very interesting comment QueenElizabethShaw

Shaws Pregnancy had occurred IMO by one of two ways.

1) Holloways Sperm is infected and its now a Hybrid Sperm Cell that carries Xeno DNA that infects and fertilizers her Egg.

2) Holloway is just a vessel to transfer tiny nano-worm Organisms that are the Parasitic Origin of Xeno DNA or connected... these Worms travel to Shaw via Lovemaking and one of them infects her Egg and Fertilizes it.

In either point you made a valid question... so..

Why does she not Pop More Babies? 

She is a Mammal and Human and normally once a Egg is Fertilized her other Eggs cant be... basically why a Pregnant Woman cant get Pregnant again until the Baby is Born... (yes Twins can happen or more, but this is a rare genetic splitting of the Egg).

What is the Life Expectancy of Mutated Sperm or Xeno-Worm?

Who knows.... maybe the infected Sperm have a short Life.. like Normal Sperm and by the time the Hybrid Child is born.. the Hybrid Sperm are dead...?  Who knows.. If not then see the same as next...

If they are Xeno-worms... (i think they are) maybe they dont die?  In theory then YES if Shaw has some inside her, then once she had the C-Section....  then there is the chance that they could infect another Egg.

If she is in Cryo-Sleep this could Halt/Delay the Process... Which is the reason the Engineers maybe went into Cryo-sleep... seems to be the case in Spaights Draft.

So yes Potentially Shaw could become Pregnant again.

If the TOP SECTION of the Ampoule contains these Nano-Worms i would like to point out... Sperm is like a Goo, but is just a collection of micro cells ...... then Holloway was a means they traveled through him to Shaw...

Then yes David just needs to insert those Worms into Shaw, and his Finger would do (oh dear here we go) and yes if the Worms and not Holloways Sperm caused Shaw to have the Trilobite... then David could carry out the same experiment.

@clovenberg2

The Black was quite easy to understand... especially if you look at Spaights Draft and Nano-Scarabs and replace with Nano-Worms.

But that Weyland file came out, that contradicted what we was shown... i hope they now have a IDEA how this stuff works and will show us.. or even if not.. as long as Ridley and FOX know now how it works...

"Instead of DROPPING eggs on a planet as a weapon,"

Yes this is flawed....

Unless the Eggs protect the Seed (Face Huger) much like a Orange... otherwise if the Eggs are more like Eggs then they would Splat... and can a Face Hugger survive?

Alternative way would be to carry the Eggs down.. this is a risk in itself unless they have a means/tool to do so and similar to transport them to the Cargo Bay.

The Black Goo is more better way of Bio Weapon..

Question is... and covered it before.

Is the Black Goo a Re-weaponizing of the Egg Bio-Weapon?

Or are the Eggs a result of the Black Goo Bio-Weapon?

If so was it intended? (Eggs). or a Accident.

@Batchpool

I would think against that method... as Human Egg Morph created Larger Egg in Alien... and the Covenant ones are smaller than the Brett Egg.....

some of the Eggs in AC seem smaller, some larger.. compared to each other... but the same is with Alien.  so some Eggs Grow to certain size and then are Primed and Ready.

AC Eggs are different too, shape is different and size of the Petals if you would....

But indeed the Egg Morph could work if these Eggs was once some smaller Native Wildlife?

"Also when Ridley commented that Shaw technically doesn't die, was this recent or before the final revisions were committed to the screenplay?"

This was mentioned by me early 2015 as from information from someone who apparently had seen the October 2014 draft...

Ridley Scott has not mentioned about Shaw... the only things he had mentioned prior to that (Source information i had) is that Shaw has questions but these Engineers are not the Benevolent race she would hope and that Paradise has the concoction to be Dark and Ominous.

Ridley has not spoken much about Shaw...  not much for 2 years.  Rappace did say around the time Ridley said this that she would like to go where Ridley is taking them... and to finally meet God or the Devil.

I think Shaw will play a Plot Device... makes sense...

"Maybe David didn't have a chance to wake her before the Engineers crashed their ship and unleashed the goo,"

Mistake in what you meant? or actually meant that as either way..... yes can we really ASSUME the crashed ship we saw is the Juggernaught that David and Shaw had?

It could be another one?  The trailer is shot in a way that could mislead us....  so it could be another... we have to remember there is a set photo of a interior that is like the Derelict and not the Juggernaught.

"David puts her back in hypersleep and asks the covenant to take her."

Indeed and as above if this is true... maybe Eggs are already there... then getting Shaw infected and then off to the Covenant would work...

But this would have to be prior to the Neomorphs etc... as surely the Covenant Crew cant be stupid... and seeing infections and especially Crudrup get Face Hugged.. they would then allow Shaw on-board...

I think the way the Xeno gets on-board has to be interesting...  as depending what the Hell happens prior to that, would surely effect the willingness to bring Crudrup back on board.

I think Walter is in the cave with Crudup's character alone. The facehugger venom/anesthetic causes temporary amnesia (which is diabolically brilliant) in Kane. It's likely to do the same to Crudup. All Walter has to do is wait with him and make up whatever story he likes to get Crudup back on board if no one else sees it happen.

Also, there's no logical connection between face huggers and horrific births for the crew yet.

In fact, since the other bursters had no direct explanation, the facehugger MUST be something different that the autodoc can treat. It's a false assumption on their part, but not unreasonable under the circumstances.

So whether Walter tells them what happened or not, they are likely to take Crudup back because they are desperate to save SOMEONE and this is the Captain, or they just don't know about what happened. 

We can agree to disagree that it's Walter in the cave, but, given his appearance, Walter is the simplest explanation. Anything else requires too many assumptions.

Some great ideas on this thread!  

So whether Walter tells them what happened or not, they are likely to take Crudup back because they are desperate to save SOMEONE and this is the Captain, or they just don't know about what happened. 

I find the idea of them returning to the main ship with an alien inside the captain full of potential.  Yes, it harks back to ALIEN but in this universe and situation it is one of a limited no. of possible outcomes.  I'd trust Ridley to give us a fresh take . . .

What does intrigue me though is what would happen then and how it would link to the next instalment . . .  (one thing at a time though lol) 

We can agree to disagree that it's Walter in the cave, but, given his appearance, Walter is the simplest explanation. Anything else requires too many assumptions.

My assumption is that this is Walter but his 'objective' appearance seems at odds with what we know about his character.  You would think he'd be telling the Cap.T to be cautious and back up, no?  Unless . . . he may have ulterior motives like Ash unknown to us at this time?  Again, too similar to ALIEN for my liking but I am sure Ridley is going to use our expectations against us in this film.

The fact that "Tennesee" is visibly shaken and holding a weapon during the trailer makes it clear that SOMETHING got back to the towing ship. (Im assuming it works similarly to the Nostromo, only with more delicate cargo.)

The shower scene implies it is some kind of xeno, not a Neo.

The only one we know gets a facehugger is the Captain. So at this point we would have to assume that's who went back to the towing ship.

The questions are:

why do they take him back?  (If they do)

why was Walter behaving that way when the facehugger got the captain?

How did the eggs get there? (Probably Not Shaw)

Indeed there has to be a way that Crudrup gets onto the Ship...

In a way that the Crew would not suspect... and for that i guess they would have to depend on someone they trust and for that... maybe Walter indeed is the one responsible... or who they believe to be Walter..

We have seen so less of the movie to work out who is who... so far we have not see a Blonde David... the trailers have not shown us everything....

We have to wander what clothing did David have under his Prometheus Space Suit.... this would rule out if it was David in that Egg Cave....  but also what could Walter be wearing under his Jacket..

The Cloaked image is interesting because under it, the Fassbender Character seems to be wearing a almost green clothing...  it looks different to what that Cave Fassbender had one..

And what he left on the ship with..

So we dont know how many times David and Walter leave and return to the Ships... etc.. or what ever time frame..

We cant accept for fact the trailer runs in a Chronological order.. we dont know how much time passes from each Scene to the next or even what order.

 Indeed there is a wealth of missing information. We do know that we got a picture of Fassbender with close-cropped, dark brown hair saying basically: this is Walter. So when I see dark brown hair, I will assume likewise without evidence to the contrary. 

Sequence of events is undoubtedly thus:

1: dark haired Android stoically witnesses Captain getting facehugger

2: Captain returns to ship

3: Shower scene.

Past that it gets fuzzy. There's plenty of blank space in between. Lots of variables.

it is plausible that there is an engineer in stasis on the ship that shaw and david leave on and david may have used him in any initial experiment which created an egg or some kind of dna that allowed him to infect some other person/engineer that morphed into an egg????

My personal thing would be to make sure there's no Engineers on the ship I take, but that's just me.

What I find interesting is where these eggs are kept. If you take a look at the surroundings, you can make out to what appears to be a massive rib cage. 

Perhaps this was a huge creature

omfg XD this is so funny

I started a topic on this issue so Ill post what I wrote. I'm thinking Elizabeth Shaw gets eggmorphed. It's pretty disturbing to think about but from the statements Ridley Scott has made about her purpose and role in Covenant, I think it's a likely scenario. It happened to Dallas in Alien but was cut from the movie. Basically, I think she gets turned into the egg in which a facehugger grows. Not sure if David does this with the help of the black goo but I'm betting somehow this is her fate. It would be an ironic fate for her...unable to create life herself and then going to the Engineers planet to get answers on the origin of life, eventually becoming part of the process of the xenomorph life cycle herself.

I think Shaw is going to be held hostage and forced to create eggs, die during the process, and be brought back to life in a an endless cycle via David's experiments. She will be the female version of Prometheus; punished for all eternity because she sought to bring knowledge to mankind. "You must feel like your god has abandoned you." David is the god now.

@Stan Winston

Indeed there are about 8 Eggs at least around the 7-8 mark but there could be more, and i am not sure the Egg Morph route would work...

My previous posts touched upon the viable and logical options to produce the Eggs.

I will add the Source claims there are Parasitic like wormlike Organisms that are referenced off Echinoderm and also slightly Cnidaria  and these Parasites can infect Hosts but also grow to a Stage that is similar to this..

When there are no Hosts or the Environment is not favorable, this Stage which they described as like a Testicle with Tentacles  can attach itself to a Surface with his Tentacles and enter a Dormant Cyst like Stage...

Where it then Performs one of TWO Tasks..

Inside this Cyst/Cocoon (they say like Gremlins Metamorphosis ones) they either Clone inside another Testicle with Tentacles or can also instead just Produce a Large Number of Parasitic worm-like Stages inside.

They claim this Testicle with Tentacles Lifeform can eventually lead to Evolve into Eggs... as per say. well Spore-like Eggs.

Again they dont know if these ideas are to be explored now... or indeed i cant say as i always do, if the Source is 100% Legit.

But i have seen a lot of evidence of indeed Echinoderm type influences in the Trailers, and some of the sketch's in Davids Lab... plus also how one Organism was described in this Lab.. from the Set Reports...   (A Alien with a Head/Mouth like a A-Hole) The description is very similar to this Echinoderm

even though shaw cant reproduce before her and hollawy made out her body could have still produced eggs and David could have some how extracted them and use them to experiment on. Also we do not know the long term affects of the intercourse they had and the effect of the mutagen on her body. And maybe, just maybe there was a recon mission to get them of the planet before covenant and that's where he got his test people/bodies.

obviously there is a lot that happened before the covenant arrives and after david and shaw leave LV223 ( hence why there will be a book ) I think the depth is a lot more than we anticipate which is a good thing imo. (so we don't spoil it for ourselves)

i have a feeling that she is mutated into either one of the eggs or the mechanism from which the eggs derive....and NO she will not be a queen, Ridley Scott will not include the Queen concept in his films because that was not his invention and having the queen in the story immediately makes the xenomorphs just a dangerous insect and takes away some of the depth and cosmic horror elements at play. He will not do that, the queen is more in your face, looks cool on screen, like a big boss in a video game but its all surface level and haas no depth and isnt that unsettling like the idea of mutation or some ancient horror that has been at play for centuries in the story of the aliens creation or use by higher powers. I liked the queen in the movie Aliens very much, but prefer that the xenomorph be an ancient unexplainable horror not cannon fodder or just an insect, leave that kind of stuff for the Marvel movies or Michael Bay, this should be deep and hauntingly gothic and Lovecraftian.

I seen that someone else said in another forum post that Shaw wanted to bring knowledge to humans (about the Engineers and our creators) and wouldnt it be ironic if she in turn turned out to be the true Prometheus. Where she is used in some ghastly way over and over to create these lifeforms that David has in his lab, while keeping her alive in some disturbing way......ironic in that she got her knowledge but became the embodiment of Prometheus in doing so.

here is the post from @jazzhands I think Shaw is going to be held hostage and forced to create eggs, die during the process, and be brought back to life in a an endless cycle via David's experiments. She will be the female version of Prometheus; punished for all eternity because she sought to bring knowledge to mankind. "You must feel like your god has abandoned you." David is the god now."

I feel that would be horrific and disturbing and and if done right would be shock and awe we havent seen since the original chest burster in 1979, something that sticks with us long after viewing, and in doing so is an example of what this film franchise should be. 

The key thing here is why Shaw couldn't get pregnant pre goo if you will - she said it was impossible but reasons were never given. The only presumed reference to the goos effect on living creatures that we have are the worms, which stayed pretty much the same except much larger and with the almost cobra like addition to the head & the stages of change for Fifield/Holloway, neither of whom grew in size or morphed into something else completely - so my question is what was strange about Shaw that she produces a trilobite (with zero human characteristics) of such gigantic proportions? Even if she was able to produce eggs (which I doubt if it was impossible for her to get pregnant) then once fertilised this new life would be microscopic and with a decent amount of human DNA - in a matter of hours too!! 

So here is my totally horrific proposition - no eggs were fertilised in the making of the trilobite - David said you're pregnant after seeing the image on the screen - well all that means is something is growing inside you. Rather than Shaw being the first egg, the real first is that Holloway was the hugger, just not the face kind. 

Interesting theory. A woman can produce eggs but not get pregnant  ( for other reasons) I do think it was produced by her and hallways Intercourse( her getting infected could have rejuvenated her reproductive organs) only because the trilogies had an umbilical cord. I do agree that it was odd on its feature traits but there again when it comes to the black goo it does have the dominant dna structure.

BM I would say you were correct but since there was an imbellical cord I think it was just his mutated sperm affecting her previously inactive reproductive organs. If there were no imbellical cord I would say that he may have planted a stomach buster in her with larvae that hid in his semen after all if the hugger can lay an egg in your throat, spores can invade your ears and nostrils.... Surely Holloway could have "submitted" a larvae inside of Shaw while they were bumping uglies.but there was the imbellical cord so there is that but good concept though they could have easily went that route instead

Hmm. Interesting! In actual, real-life human biology, a female is born already carrying all of the eggs she will ever produce in her lifetime. The body doesn't have to make them, it just has to release them during ovulation. Who knows why Shaw thought she couldn't "create life". I sincerely doubt it was from lack of eggs. I strongly surmise that David is going to harvest Shaw's eggs for his own nefarious purposes, keeping her alive just to do so.

Regarding the umbilical cord... what's more interesting to me is that it was attached to what appeared to be a placenta, which would have to come from a uterus. Was that engineer a female? If not, possibly a hermaphrodite?