Xeno tail wrapped around a leg in Alien and AC

Your not the first one to have brought this up dk.I discussed this with someone else about the possibilities of alien rape.Its an interesting idea that an alien could impregnate some one with its tail(i kind of thought it was more spear shaped though).

@ninXeno426

I didn't see that discussion. I thought a bit about how a scorpion delivers poison through its tail and maybe the xeno would be similar except it would be alien sperm.

I can say that it wasn't really discussed that way.Alien sperm ejected from the tail is certainly a new idea.

I wonder would the sperm have acidic properties or would it be more like black goo

They have facehuggers to handle that side of things.

Cameron originally had Gorman stung by an Alien tail before it got changed to some boxes bonking him on the head.

Brett was originally stabbed in the back with the Aliens tail (hence the shot of his feet being used during the Lambert scene - which it seems Covenant is paying homage to).  The remnants of the tail between his legs is glimpsed very briefly in the final film just after it bites him in the head.

Could be something new

I would think it would be a form of the black goo. The tail itself could serve both purposes as weapon and reproductive organ. It may suggest a male xeno but we couldn't really be sure since it is alien and therefore grants artistic license and an excuse in case fans call fowl.

 Good point lol

yeah I touched on this on another thread and quite interesting the convo that started. tho never touched on the imrgenating aspect, as SM says they have the facehugger for that stage in theyr life cycle but before that stage, who impregnates the queen? I suggested there were some but very few males as an possible theory within the aliens but theyr only needed for reproduction and they die off pretty soon. like ants, the males r small and pretty useless and only required for fertilising the queen. in the alien movie, while the xeno is doing whatever it is doing with lambert we can hear what I can only describe as a sadistic 'laugh' over the intercom before lambert screams. if u listen to the trailor for AC, the xeno makes a noise that hasn't been heard before. my guess is that the alien has sinister/curious motives here about the naked woman, as the tail obv passes the guy as its not interested in him. to me the xeno comes into shot behind the guy but the tail scene shows its clearly focusing on the woman plus the man dies so the alien may have some form of basic natural instinct which helps it tell the difference between males and females, suggesting that at an early stage there may be male xenos looking to mate with the queen  

"who impregnates the queen?"

The Queen doesn't need to be impregnated. Women produce eggs without being 'impreganted'.  Same with the Queen Alien.  However instead of sperm meeting egg internally as with humans, the process is twisted with Aliens so the egg produces the 'fertiliser' (so to speak; ie the hugger) instead of being fertilised.

The hugger fertilises the host, and the next generation is produced.

it would stand to reason that ridley has used forms of reference from animals in our natural environment to base certain aspects of the xeno life cycle on, what im curious about is that for any life form to give birth, wether it be mammal producing a live offspring, a bird laying eggs or even plant life reproducing, there is a form of fertilization at the very beginging. the queen lays eggs which have a life form inside, regardless of the huggers use, it is a living creature in itself. so either the queen is able to self fertilise as the xeno has both male and female reproductive organs or is born already fertilized. there has to be a form of fertilization at a stage prior to the queen laying the egg. ok, I get wer talking about an alien creature here, but if some theories r true and the xeno is actually an ancient creature discovered by the engineers at some point, then they will most likely follow some form of natural rules. I may be wrong, but I believe nature doesn't allow a species to self fertilize. I know many animals have bothe male and female parts/organs, but I havnt heard of these animals impregnating themselves. these instances r for surroundings and circumstance such as some frogs can change theyr sex depending on the environment i.e, more males in relation to females r present. even plants have both but cannot self fertilize. its a form of failsafe in nature. for example, is u have a genetic defect and u can self fertilize, u WILL pass that defect on and if its an infection on a large scale, the species will suffer, yet if u mate with someone else then those chances r lowered. the egg/facehugger is one stage in the alien life cycle but yet it is a life form itself and has to come from somewhere. basically I mean unless something fertilizes the egg at some stage, all would be is an empty husk with no hugger inside

Sperm are produced without a male being 'fertilised'.  The hugger has been described by O'Bannon as an ambulatory penis.  It delivers 'sperm' to the host.

As you said, it's an alien lifeform and has its own rules which are a bastardisation of our own.

true, but the scene with lambert and this insinuated scene in AC suggests some form of sexually sinister motive. if this is true then it would suggest my theory has grounds as if it isn't true that there is some form of mating between xenos/queen then why put the scene in? if the xeno couldn't distinguish between male and female (it is behind the male in the scene so the tail passes the guy which means its interested in her and not the male), which would suggest a form of gender within xenos, then it would just kill both the guy and the woman, it wouldn't 'appear' to caress her leg or strip lambert, no?

It may bypass the male - but the trailer also shows us the woman getting showered in blood; presumably his.

I'd be wary of assigning human characteristics to an Alien.  They either want hosts or want to kill.  Brett's death had the Alien sticking it's tail between his legs after all.

I'm assuming, of course, this IS an Alien in Covenant and not something different.  If that's the case, anything is possible.

u don't have to assign human characteristics to the alien to come up with this theory, its a theory based on nature and if the xeno is an ancient race, which has been theorised, and not engineered then it could follow such natural traits. doesn't have to be male and female but the theory of sexuality within the xeno species is what im saying is being suggested here, and if that's the case then its not far fetched to assume forms of mating,reproduction and fertilization within the species itself. I just feel that if this isn't the case then the lambert scene where the xeno goes to the conscious lengths to strip lambert and this suggestive scene in AC are completely pointless and without reason, surely the xeno (judging by the 'tail' design) wouldn't go to such bother and would just kill them. the design of the xeno by giger initially struck everyone as having strong sexual tones. o'bannons whole idea behind starbeast is about interspecies rape and true we have the facehugger. even in later sequals talk was about ripley mating with a xeno as weaver herself has discussed so I think theres something ridley is maybe trying to get across about the alien, maybe???? I could be wrong and im big enough to admit that but sinces aliens iv always wondered if the queen and hive concept Cameron had was based on animals such as ants or bees

I see the tail thing as a stealthy approach to snatch the unsuspecting victim from behind.

And at the same time a little H.R Giger standard sexual implication of course.

its rubbing her leg (and makes a sound I haven't heard before), or it appears that way, but the alien is behind the male. im guessing he is grabbed and killed from behind and she is facing it naked and bloody. im just theorising theres something more to the actual xeno in this manner than wev already been told. the whole trailor scene, put together with lamberts death is very suggestive

It could also simply be a nod to Alien how boring it may sound. 

Btw who is the male actor in the shower? I've heard different opinions.

I thought that and posted my question a few days ago. Im not sure as I havnt figure out who is who yet

and yeah that is partly what im trying to get at, if that is all the scene is based on then its pretty lame. it would make for a more interesting story to have something else motivating the lambert and shower scene wouldn't u say?

Yeah I could sort of see it given the fact that camera really liked to zoom in and focus in the xeno tail in Alien for some reason.

Weaver stated in the "making of Alien" from 2002 that "you never knew if it was going to kill you or f*** you" 

that's the point im getting at. a theory there is infact some form of gender/ sexuality/ reproduction within the xeno stage, whatever form it may take as although the hugger is a form of 'penal reproductive organ' for that stage in the life cycle, maybe the queen is impregnated at the earlier stage to produce the eggs. could be as wrong as I could be right, but the scenes suggest sexuality in a form, wether its brett as pointed out to me or lambert, the xeno to me is clearly 'curious' and if there is no such thing like I have suggested then those scenes make absolutely no sense and if its just for another form of killing it victim, which directors do, its been done before and isn't as interesting, IMO

I am not so sure about if we would go the sexualized route... i know a lot of HE Gigers works were very sexual and perverted that included sex with Bio-Mechanical Beings, and Machinery.

Who knows... i would be willing to consider only the Aliens movies as a clue which Alien can be too... And i would assume the Sting on the Tail is merely a way to subdue a Host to be carried off so the Xenomorph can use it for its method of Procreation..

Simply the Tail is to Stun its victims.... but it also can be used in a more harsh manner to actually cause serious damage too.

the tail being used like a stinger was done then dropped and would be good I think, id have preferred to have seen Gorman stung than just knocked out by boxes. im sure if ridley is going to go down a more indepth 'giger' toned route then hel reveal a bit more in the film and hopefully not just pay homage to the lambert death scene.

Maybe the "tail between legs" scenes are just that, suggestive. To play with viewers minds. Deep within we're all little "dirtbags". ;)

In regards to "eggs and sperm" I don't know. There's a reason why nature invented genders, it's called diversity. Wich makes species more resistant and leads to evolution through mutation.

However, following Jon Spaiths script the xenos are a engineered species. Question is if the "laws" of nature fully apply to them. Their sole purpose is to kill.

But what is a sperm? In human terms it's single cell organism with a long tail with only one task, find an ovum (egg) and merge with it. By doing so it vanishes, kinda dying leaving its DNA with the ovum. Sounds utterly like a facehugger, no?

What if the facehugger is an pevertly overized sperm cell and the host is the ovum? But what would that make the queen? A king who poops out his testicles? The ovopositor is actually penis?  I can hear ya shouting "BLASPHEMY!" already. ;P

But what would that make the queen? A king who poops out his testicles?

Well, yeah kind of ;)

As SM says, within the realms of the alien universe I don't think we can view them by our standards unless seen as 'bastardised' ones.  

My feeling was the tail in ALIEN was not actually doing anything to Lambert or Brett other than majorly creeping them out.  I like the idea of a stinger though.  I think the sexual tone was inferred to play with the audience as suggested above and probably inspired by the Giger themes.

To new audiences it’s just horror, I suppose. To us who loved the original film it’s of course a reminder of the tail sneaking behind the terrified Lambert. I see/saw the tail just as a means for the beast to grab the paralyzed (of fear) victim and pull it towards its jaws or claws . . .

"u don't have to assign human characteristics to the alien to come up with this theory, its a theory based on nature and if the xeno is an ancient race, which has been theorised, and not engineered then it could follow such natural traits. "

The natural traits of an Alien involve facehugger implants host = Alien. They don't go around impregnating anyone with their tail.

"What if the facehugger is an pevertly overized sperm cell and the host is the ovum?"

That's more or less, the case.

The "American" xeno's tails could impale their victims, because f*** yeah I guess. 

Ol' Big Chap was a rather more sophisticated fellow. 

Interesting if the xeno would be an old race, S.M (which is suggested by the mural) and not engineered. It would then be like in Jurassic Park - waking up a dinosaur with primordial instincts.  

Hey dk did others take over your forum lol

We have to remember the idea was something very Alien... and so we cant really compare it to much on Earth.

Star Beast and Alien had it that the Organism Starts off as a Egg that carries a Face Hugger Stage.... this (Face Hugger) latches onto a Host and implants a Embryo.. that Gestates inside and then grows to a Chest Buster, where it breaks out of the Chest (or other places) or its Host.

This Organism goes through some growth stages until its a Adult and then it can Mutate/Evolve Morph a Hosts Genetic Material to  Metamorphosize the Host into a Egg and start the whole Process again....

Aliens changed this with the Hive and Queen, and so we have to look at his example of being a bit similar to a Queen Ant, Bee or Termite maybe all in a loose context.

Certain Environments, Certain Nutrition or other influencing factors can determine if a Egg becomes a Queen Face Huger. Is maybe a logical way to see it... but i dont think its been explained really maybe SM knows how a Queen comes from a Egg.

The other way is that the Queen was already around in some other place... but what if that Queen died? It would have to have some other means to procreate and thus bring about a new Queen.

If we Merge Alien and Aliens ideas... then a likely explanation i have covered a bit before and the other day too..

Drone... can evolve a Host into a Queen Egg, that either has a Queen Embryo carrying Face Hugger, or a Queen Juvenile Stage Organism inside.

Thats the short version..

ninXeno426-

All good. It is interesting to see so many perspectives.

Yeah i know. lots of fascinating things said here.

But there are other ways to procreate...

Some Organisms can reproduce

*Parthenogenesis  were Eggs can become Embryos without Fertilization but they gain traits from the Mother... i would assume the Queen uses this kind of Asexual Reproduction.

Gamete (Dioecious) Reproduction is when no mating occurs but Eggs and Sperm are released usually into Water and they then combine together to create Fertilization. Some Organisms can have both sexual organs or at very least produce Sperm and eggs. But i dont think they can Fertilize each other. So is more like..

Hermaphrodite Reproduction is when a Organism has no sex or is dual sexed usually and in many they can either act as the Female or Male... but in other cases they can act as both.... It is likely the Hammerpedes are like this if they are based off Worms.. and So it would need TWO Organisms as a Hermaphrodite can not Fertilize its own Eggs. So Worm A and B Mate and both Worm A and B then have Fertilized Eggs.

But there are many more ways to procreate and some get very strange when we go to microbes and under water Organisms..  I will cover the Xeno and  Echinodermata possible link some other time.  These Organisms can procreate in a whole manner of ways.... one is also similar to...

Cabbages... yes back to my Cabbage post some Organisms and Plants can Procreate by simply cloning itself from body parts or dead material.   A Cabbage for example can be broken up and smashed up and thrown to the ground and end up shredded into say 12 pieces... Each of these pieces can Clone itself and produce a Whole New Cabbage from each part.

Sounds Alien... but its true and a number of other Organisms can do the same... especially certain Echinoderm/Cystoidea

;)

"but i dont think its been explained really maybe SM knows how a Queen comes from a Egg."

It's never been solidly established how a Queen comes to be, beyond it happening at the egg/ hugger stage.

Thanks for that SM

i thought it was never touched upon...

I will assume its a case of environmental factors and pheromones or something that can trigger a Egg to Produce a Queen... unless they go for the Drone ==> Egg Morph to Queen.

But its a case of will we ever know? 

I think there is a chance that Blomkamps Alien 5 if it comes to light could show us... as i feel Ridley could be trying to keep somethings secret.

S.M-

I thought a queen came from a royal face hugger. That was suggested from Alien 3 Special Edition. There was a brief shot of its dead body in that movir- it was bigger and the fingers were webbed.

If it was ever going to be addressed in a film my bet would be in Blomkamp's film.

what if, as BD suggested and I have touched on, its something based on a creature here?? the writers may have taken references from our own natural world. theory..... theyr hive is much the same basic make up as a bee colont. the xenos r all female and all have the ability to be a queen. at the beginning either the first to be born automatically becomes a queen OR if there r several they fight and the last one standing takes the throne. it is clear the xeno molts and what if after bursting through theyr host they find a quiet location to molt but it is this stage that determines if theyl be a queen or not. in bee colonies the queen secretes a pheromone that supresses the others ability to produce eggs and become a queen. if no such pheromone is present at the molting stage then the xeno becomes a queen (remember in alien ridley was going with the morphing concept not the queen concept). if there is already a queen then the infant xeno picks up on the pheromone and molts into a plain xeno. by law of averages if it is determined by the type of hugger then there would be at least some eggs laid where the hugger would produce a queen. if the queen has the ability to control the types of eggs laid and only lays xeno-huggers, then what happens to the colony if the queen is killed? she is the matriarch and brings order to the hive. if there were no eggs laid the would result in a new queen then id guess the hive would eventually die off. this would be solved if like bees, all xenos were potential queens.