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Alien and the troubles of Artificial Intelligence

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ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFebruary 17, 2017
Science fiction has a long history of artificial intelligence turning on us,Terminator,The Matrix,2001 A Space Odyssey to name a few.Alien has had a rather different approach.They have often proven to be just as,if not more dangerous than the xenomorph.After all they are supposed to be trustworthy.In Alien,Ash's identity as an android was a secret,planted on board The Nostromo to collect and safeguard what ever they found on LV-426.His reveal late in the film shocked many,after all it was only two years before audiences saw a much friendlier vision of robots in Star Wars.Ash recalled Hal 9000,only perhaps more sinister due to that he looked,talked and acted just like us,not just a red lense.Bishop was the polar opposite,loyal,no violence,no secret agenda(this time around it was a human instead.)In those 57 years that had past,they seemingly ironed out the issue's with those twitchy A2 models(though that was a convenient cover story to further discredit Ripley.)Then there was Call.200 yesterday had past and androids had become more human than ever,gaining an independence that lead to a recall,"they didn't like being told what to do."Call learned of the United Systems Military's agenda prior to the recall,and set out to sabotage there plans all according to her free will,not programming.That brings us to David 008,who's something of an enigma.Being an early model He doesn't really have any behavior inhibitors that his successors might.David while seeming pretty human,seems to feel superior being an android.A notable example is when Charlie Holloway inquires as to why he needs a helmet to which David replies"I was designed like this because you are more comfortable interacting with your own kind.If i didn't wear the suit it would defeat the purpose." "They're making you guys pretty close huh." "Not too close i hope."Another example would be when David and Holloway discuss creation.Holloway says they made David because they could.David replies"Can you imagine how disappointing it would be to hear the same thing from your creator."Ofcourse you can imagine David has some resentment towards the human race which created him just simply "because they could."It's hard to blame him for some of his actions.That brings us to his role in Alien Covenant where he seemingly has taken on the role of creator.An android who was created by a man who wanted to be a god has possibly become a god himself.Hard to say whether he created the xenomorph(i'd say probably not but he has most likely created the Neomorph and the protomorph)We also have Walter which we know nothing about so far.It's likely he'll be more stoic and reserved like Bishop,but being before Ash and possibly part of the same series possibly twitchy.It's curious to see how these two might interact.Either way the androids have often proven themselves to be just as if not more deadly at times than the xenomorph.A possible cautionary tale about the dangers of creating Artificial Intelligence perhaps?On how things might turn out to be one day if we're not too careful.What do you guys think?P.S. I'd like to credit the various topics and comments from dk,Ati,ali81,chli,Michelle Johnston and various others for their views on artificial intelligence for inspiring this thread.Thank you guys.

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ninXeno426
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Ex Machina is a masterpiece.One of the best sci fi films in recent memory.

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dk
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I watched I-Robot last night and didn't really care for it although I really wanted to. Too action Hollywood for my tastes. I should get the book. I have read some of Asimov's short stories that were fantastic.

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ninXeno426
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I just watched it my self.It was okay.My brother says the novel's are superior and he likes the movie.

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dk
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I still say the ST TNG Measure of a Man is a great example of the AI/human/soul debate. 

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ninXeno426
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I'm looking that one up on you tube

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dk
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It is worth a rent I you have Hulu, Amazon etc imo

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ninXeno426
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I think i can do that through my ps3.I can definitely do Netflix through it.

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ali81
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they say robots/ computers cant make mistakes, but humans do. we would be the ones programming them so inevitably, we will make an error somewhere when creating them. so in short, don't create them.

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chli
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ninXeno426: Yes, it's interesting that many wants to point out the dangers of AI (and contacting extra terrestrials)? We have Ridley Scott and Stephen Hawking e.g. But isn't there a bit of a humanisation when we look upon David? He reacts as if he has emotions (jealous, disappointed, angry, sad etc?). Even if he is programmed to learn he would still be programmed for specific tasks which a computer/robot/synthetic would follow. He couldn't possibly get a soul and free will?

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BigDave
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Opps image was for other thread ;)

But yes i think we will be shown David has a Soul of sorts and i have covered how this comes to play in other topics.

Fassbender has said its the Human/Emotional Traits of David that causes concerns as far as how others persevere David.

And so indeed thats a clear hint that David 8 has some how gained much more Human Emotions than a Synthetic was intended.

But we are talking Weylands Personnel Favored David and his Son.

And so as God gave Lucifer a bit more free-will than the other Angels...  Weyland has given David the same and in both cases this leads to consequences.

And a Rebellious and Sentient nature.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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chli
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BD: It's probably a good comparison with Lucifer. But Weyland Industries describes their product (David 8) thus:

"Heart and Soul

David 8 can record, process, understand and express many complex emotions, but he will never know true human feelings such as love, grief and compassion."

Will he then, somehow, evolve beyond this?

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ninXeno426
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chli:True about David's human elements.It's those elements i believe is the reason he might feel superior as i stated in the topic.BigDave is right about her rebellious nature,i always believed he may have said something to the engineer that caused to attack them.

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S.M
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"Will he then, somehow, evolve beyond this?"

Only if he's programmed to.

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ninXeno426
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Perhaps he's figured out a way to override his parameters.

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Fire_Stream21
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What's really coincidental is that I recently watched an x-files episode about an infestation of robot bugs. Mulder and Scully went to the leading Robotics Scientist-Engineer and he stated that the mind is to complex to copy and create. That's the problem with robots, humans are a mix of hormones and the affect of memories deciding future decisions. Robots or androids don't really have a system of thinking in a complex way, they are just programmed for reaction to different situations.

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Fire_Stream21
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but the idea of AI being engineered through millions and possibly billions of lines of codes reacting to different situations is actually theoretically possible for now a days. The AI's judgement system would be a system of complex situations being broke down and understood bye the AI. Now it would copy and recognize these decisions and choices comparing them to future decisions and then therefore making the decision.

Its complicated but makes sense in the long run. 

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BigDave
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"

"Will he then, somehow, evolve beyond this?"

Only if he's programmed to."

To answer you both, i think it would depend if his Programing has become compromised, SM your correct to state that a Robot would be bound by Programs, and these could be stored on various Chips.

We saw with Robocop he was a Cyborg but he had a built in Program that gave his his Directives and in latter movies we see these got edited/disabled.

I would assume that there are problems with the Latter Models, it seems Weyland Industries had some problems with Recalls for David 7 models...  and maybe David 8 models had likewise.

But i would think that David 8 is actually Weylands own Personnel Robot, potentially also one where the previous incarnations as far as Prototypes have their Memories past onto the newer Weyland own Personel David models.

This would make the Scene where David in white in the white room with the Piano and most likely Weyland from the past, fit in as relevant to David 8

There is off course no Facts for this... its just a speculative theory.

If i go back to the Lucifer Root... again likewise i think David 8 was allowed more relaxed Programing if you would compared to what the others are intended.... just as it seemed God Gifted his Favored Angel Lucifer with more Freedom of Will.

Its even a theme with Adam and Eve, the Bible and Paradise lost seems to imply had they not Ate from the Fruit from the Tree of All Knowledge of Good and Evil, they would not have Sinned.

So this Tree gave them complete knowledge of Good and Evil, so before that surely they would have behaved in ways that God intended and lived and performed tasks and worship as God intended... WITHOUT QUESTION

Its likely the Forbidden Knowledge gained from this Fruit would have impaired or open their eyes to have more Total Freewill.

Thus they had to be thrown out, not only for disobeying but maybe now because their minds was Re-Programed.

I think indeed David already possessed a relaxed Programing, or there was something Weyland had done to his Programing or Circuits that allowed him to have a bit more Freedom.... this came at a cost.

At the Hubris and Hindsight of Weyland.

Fassbender teases David has a Soul, he said that its the elements of his Human like Emotions that are a concern for Humans...

David is in essence the same as Adam after he ate from the Apple.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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ninXeno426
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Would he have had Shaw reprogram him perhaps?Think the The Terminator in T2.

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ninXeno426
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Here's a theory on how David may be reprogramed.His detached head,perhaps Shaw would have possibly disabled him,sort of like how Ash was disabled,in an effort to control his behavior.But since she's not an engineer(no not that kind)she instead does something wrong,and David becomes more aware than he previously was.Really of the wall i know,but it could be a reason behind his reconnected head.

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ninXeno426
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Another more likely angle.It likely that Shaw assisted with the reattachment of David's head.David would have obviously instructed her how to do so(Like the aforementioned T2.)Without her knowing exactly what she's doing,he has her turn of any behavior inhibitors that he may have.He then work be able to operate with the free will he may have previously lacked.After all,all his previous actions were likely orders.An example would be infecting Holloway.Of course he's also known to disobey.

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