Please please don`t do a Promethues!

Babylonxeno

That's pretty much the thinking of the Captain in ALIEN: Manticore. :D

The crew of that ship aren't going to be 'conveniently stupid' just to advance the plot. Such is unrealistic, and would be a serious continuity error regarding how I've done my characters. They are a crew who are acutely aware of the dangers inherent in space travel, and while this does NOT mean they know about Xenos, not really, they do have a well-developed sense of caution as they're accustomed to salvaging wrecks where spontaneous reactor leaks can happen, there might be armed and un-fired munitions, as well as assorted other mundane but no less lethal dangers.

That doesn't mean there isn't risk, especially in the follow-up story where they follow the course of the juggernaut that David and Shaw took to Paradise. Sometimes though, there's just no substitute for being involved first-hand, no matter how good your drones and such are.

Jeez, Inquisitor Fifield, that was pretty savage! XD

That being said, PROMETHEUS dared to do what no other prequel film has done before or since--expand an existing movie's "universe" beyond its original limits. Even Star Wars: Rogue One (which technically is a prequel) didn't reach as far as PROMETHEUS did--although it was a LOT more imaginative and innovative than TFA, but I digress...

When I went to see PROMETHEUS in the theater I was expecting another stupid "bug hunt." Instead, I got a film that *felt* like ALIEN but *thought* like Blade Runner. (I'm actually working on a thesis analyzing the thematic connections between all four [so far] of Scott's SF films--trust me, they're as rampant as they are fascinating). It completely thwarted my expectations, and I loved it. It's still the only movie I've seen twice in a row in a theater, and even though I've watched it countless times since its release, I still catch something new almost every time I watch it. It requires its audience to THINK, it doesn't just spoon-feed details. Ridley Scott dared to treat his audience like they had functional grey matter between their ears, and I rather appreciate that.

Certainly PROMETHEUS was far superior to Resurrection, AVP, (which are basically brainless popcorn flicks--fun but stupid) and the abominable AVP: Requiem. I found it preferable as well to ALIENS and Alien 3, both of which I personally find entertaining but flawed.

I hope ALIEN: Covenant DOES "do a 'Prometheus'" and build upon the ALIEN-verse further, and delve deeper into the questions its predecessors ask.

Blackwinter-witch:

"As for facehuggers and other things that are just overwhelmingly powerful and capable of burning through/breaching a suit, well, the Hammerpede showed that clearly, and there's not much you can do about things like that."

Indeed. When people gripe about the PROMETHEUS crew removing their helmets it's clear they're forgetting the point that helmets and suits won't protect you against amorous facehuggers and pissy hammerpedes!

Another thing, when people whine about Millburn being daft enough to act friendly towards a hissing penis-looking-snake-thing; have they never been on YouTube and searched "people being attacked by animals"? How many times does one see a zookeeper or biologist, who should know better, getting mauled, stabbed, or pecked by some creature they've angered?

Also, Millburn's foolhardy behavior is completely in line with his character. He's friendly to unfriendly things. Of all the people aboard the PROMETHEUS, he chooses to be chummy with Fifield. Even though the man is obviously miffed after being so long in hypersleep, glowering at him, and tells him he's not interested in friendship. Undaunted, Millburn sits next to Fifield at the briefing and again on the rover, causing the geologist to move one seat down. Taking this into consideration, Millburn's overly-friendly demeanor, combined with the exhilaration of finding an extraterrestrial specimen, makes his foolish behavior with the hammerpede not really all that surprising.

I'd actually argue that the point of the expeditionary team removing their helmets to follow Holloway is art of the theme of obedience vs freedom that runs throughout the film. Most of the Prometheus' crew blindly follow orders. Many of them have no idea what their mission is, they're just loyal to either the Weyland Corporation (because they want to make money) or Weyland himself. David has a desire to have free will, but as long as Weyland his alive, he must obey his master's wishes. Janek, who "just flies the ship," nonetheless has enough sense to look past the Company's directives and Weyland's fantasies to realize just what a threat the Engineers truly are to humanity. When the time comes to stop the Last Engineer from exterminating mankind, he leaves the ultimate decision to a democratic vote, and his crewmen choose their fate to die along with him.

Obedience/slavery vs free will/individualism is a theme that runs throughout all of Scott's SF films, (and I'd argue some of his non-SF movies as well).

For instance, when Dallas and co. obediently follow the Company's orders to investigate the mysterious signal, they're heading towards their eventual doom. Parker, Ripley, and Lambert have the wherewithal to question the idea, but in the end, obedience to their superiors rules. It's Kane that insists "we must go on!" as they approach the derelict, and we all know how that ends up for him. It isn't until Ripley and her remaining crewmates rebel against the Company and decide to scuttle the Nostromo and flee in the shuttle that escape is possible (although of course that doesn't help poor Lambert and Parker).

I'm working on a post that will elaborate on this point further, but I get wordy when I write and so I have to work on whittling it down so it's not a book. I'll be posting it hopefully within the next day or two.

Raido

Man, you blew me away with the depth and detail of your insight and analysis!! Dead-on about Milburn, never thought of it that way, but yeah, you absolutely pinned it exactly about him!!

The Obedience vs Freedom, again, awesome point!! Looking over my own works, I just realized that Manticore's crew 'rebel' in a colossal manner. :)

Again, Great post!!

LOL Inquisitor Fifield I am beginning to like you.

Welcome back DJ!

Another thing to consider about Milburn was actually voiced in Spaights' original script, that their spacesuits were essentially bulletproof. So yes, Blackwinter, over confidence, whether it was in their theories, their AI (David) or their equipment drove their mistakes. Milburn had no reason to believe the Hammerpede was Death Incarnate, or that it could do him harm even if it was.

Obviously, there'll be a momentary scene where the sciencey person declares, "the atmosphere is an astonishing match with Earth... The air is breathable, captain!" Woohoo, no helmets necessary.

Aside: how come Holloway burned to death (very satisfyingly) in an environment that doesn't have oxygen? Nevermind.

Why would this be surprising? Remember that the engineers were terraforming on LV 223. Probably making it like their homeworld which is probably why they chose earth to create life on in the first place. Same atmosphere 

Aorta

'Overconfidence kills', and yeah, I have to say, the Hammerpede was a surprise in it's lethality, I didn't expect it to enter his suit in any way, but a compound fracture, well, I guess it took advantage of a warm new nesting place.

 Hmm I would love to buy into it the way some of you do but it really does not feel real to me and many others and that was the main problem. But yes like I say I loved parts of it so I'm not a mega hater...Ridley is my favorite director which is why I expected more. And encouragingly Martian was better than expected so there hope...! Oh and sorry but thank God no Damon lindelof...:s . 

And yes I expected savagery I even welcome a nice fiery debate I joined this forum just before Prometheus came out ...this is my second account ... I'm well used to the flack :D . I just don't get quiet so caught up in it these days :p .

Whoa raido you might just give big Dave a run for his money in the future I'm thinking. 6600 posts wow Dave...

'Never trust anything that doesn't die when you tear it's head off'

Ha ha these are words to live by.

DJ- you and I had a few debates ourselves, back then. Your requirements are more stringent than most, it's gonna be fun to hear your feelings about AC because it does appear they are going down some familiar paths.

I find this doubly amusing because you know they were aware of all the criticisms leveled at Prometheus, so certain lacks of course correction could almost be read as a middle finger (or more likely as an adherence to efficient storytelling).

Prometheus had a couple issues, but my problems with it don't match anyone else's so I don't go into them. I'd rather support someone having the courage to deviate from the hallowed Alien Universe. 

Aorta

Well, the two occasions it's occured do tend to support my statement :D

As for deviating from the 'Hallowed' universe, there's more than a couple of decent writers around here showing their works. Not sure if their works of the level of steering-away from what bothers you about the franchise, but I'd say they are worth reading.

No helmets... so you dont want to see neomorphs.

@Raido

Totally agree with everything you said, and indeed Prometheus is a movie that takes a few screenings before things make more sense.

"it's clear they're forgetting the point that helmets and suits won't protect you against amorous facehuggers and pissy hammerpedes!"

I was going to do a reply but Aorta hit the same nail on the head with "Another thing to consider about Milburn was actually voiced in Spaights' original script, that their spacesuits were essentially bulletproof"

The drafts had little things that would have made those silly scenes make more sense.  Sadly they was cut out and it left many seeing Prometheus as a bit Stupid.

I think a thing to remember is a lot of movies have to have some very bad decision making in order to move the Plot along.

No silly mistakes = Not much chance or Horror, we know when we watch so many Pop Corn Horror movies the mistakes they make and we can think... well if you dont make those mistakes you would all be alive.

This sadly has to be with most Horror Flicks, some are Clever in how they work... The Nightmare on Elm Street Especially as its not really by silly mistakes but by going to Sleep and everyone needs to Sleep Eventually.

I think i can understand how people can be upset at some stupid stuff though,  Alien dealt with it in a Masterful way..  Lambert and Ripley showed Caution, Sadly Dallas and Kane was running the Show.

when they left the ship and Ripley was in Charge, she was very much a Vickers Type Character but it was ASH who had a Agenda (Special Order 937) who let Kane back on the Ship.

If Ash was Human and was not working for no company Special Order then its likely the events of Alien as far as the Alien getting loose on the Ship would not have happened.

And thus the movie would not have worked... then i guess the Alien could have got in the ship from the outside if the Ship could still not have taken off.

The first thing a biologist would spot if there was earth like environments is the fact the life there may be similar enough to pass on any number of fatal things. Not to mention potentially disastrous contamination from them to the environment.'

I agree but I also want to watch a film, not a colonisation documentary ;)

I suppose it depends on how much suspension of disbelief you can allow for (for me it's OK as long as it's consistent to itself).

 As mentioned above, I'd have to assume checks re. the environment on Paradise have been done, if not shown directly. 

You should watch a film called Europa Report.  If you haven't seen it it's about an expedition to Europa.  Sticks very closely to scientific protocol and this becomes quite a big plot element.  I'd recommend it.

I want to see alien monsters doing horrible things and scaring people in an ALIEN film though, so carry on being daft I say ;) ha

Well I guess I just always come back to what is the best film of this type: alien. There was such a level of realism it totally sucks you in. Yes there's a few mistakes and irrational moments but it all feels in character. The big difference being a 'few' ... Prometheus just had one thing after another like some kind of haunted house in space they could of all been the classic bimbo teenagers and it would of suited them more except maybe Shaw and of course David. 

Looking at alien it shows you you don't have to have a bunch of idiots making mistake after mistake to have a horror film. In fact I reckon they could show off really amazing technology show their over confidence in it then show the black goo beating them despite thier best efforts. The goo could be unscanable for instance it could also be able to eat through their suits or they simply get attacked by a creature there is an infinite amount of ways to do it and you get a realistic film to boot. I think Holloway fell down a hole and broke his helmet as such in an early version of a script for Prometheus not an amazing idea i know but far more believable than what happened and most importantly not the cringeworthy scene we did have. Almost cannot watch that bit :( . It was like having a xeno doing a little dance in a ballerina outfit type cringe.

So yes of course you can have some mistakes that's real it's just the amount and if it fits the character. Unfortunately Prometheus also went further as far as the mistakes looked so odd they just felt like they were there to further the film not make a realistic situation thus creating the plot holes etc....

And no I'm not a xeno type fan either I can have a few bits with them in but I would rather learn about the engineers the demi God and what else there is! That part was the only thing I really loved was lindelof and Ridley flipping the 30percent engineer to 70 xeno on its head. Anyway fingers crossed!

Ps . Yes I once pulled a big centipedes head off as it kept coming back into were we where sleeping. I put the body in a flower pot ...The next day I went out to see it again and when I picked it up it went for me with its back end like a defensive move the ran round the pot.  so shocking! I finished it off after feeling guilty about doing that...But wtf! :O

" It was like having a xeno doing a little dance in a ballerina outfit type cringe."

Great, there's an image in my head that's gonna be damn near indelible. :D I agree also!!

Prometheus was a mess to a big extent even though it wasn’t a total disaster, it was alright but not more than that. I don’t know why they don’t wear helmets either but hopefully they will have a good explanation for it. My take on it is that if the movie doesn’t have many dumb parts then some of them will be forgiven by me at least. When you have a movie filled with bad characters that are doing bad mistakes because that they are obviously stupid and when the characters in general are dislikable that is when I have a problem with it but if they get the characters right (all humans have flaws) then I will be able to forgive that but it depends on the script and how they will edit the movie.

Maybe their technology won’t be able to detect the bad things so they get infected that way? Remember that they are colonists and not scientists so maybe that will explain some things. Hopefully they will be somewhat consistent with the story.

Yes exactly some mistakes equal realism mistake after mistake just roll over into some kind of weird dark laurel and hardy horror...And not real at all...Anyway there's much more to it there where massive plot holes etc. galore. If this one feels real all the way through it's half way to being a classic. 

I expect one of the mods etc. Will start up a predictions coming true thread / s after it's released...or now....hmmmm...I also wonder if anyone on the film making team saw any of what's on here and either sub consciously or other wise used the ideas....interesting...

I would NOT be surprised if FOX kept an eye and ear on this forum :)

They likely think:

1; we're all crazy

2; maybe they should hire us.

:D