How to save the franchise

Nice. Going to feature this post awhile.

Yes. New directors could carry on the franchise. I even liked AR. RS started it and set the tone and foundation. I also agree with the video that Alien required no prequel. Solid assessment imo.

I said this only in my last post but I am not a genre fan. I am 62 years old and like any of my friends who saw A L I E N first time round we were absolutely fascinated by Ridley offering a creation myth for the creature. 

Inevitably by offering a tangental approach and one which was not bullet proof (Prometheus is flawed) he had Weaver and Blomkamp banging on the door. He has tried to rationalise those competing issues and mis heard the critiques of Prom and the result is Covenant.

Its to late to carry on with the broad enquiry having set up the backing into and A. I. as the driver of the narrative. The danger with Awakening is he tries another compromise movie (modest small, "big philosophical" issues and if they want Aliens I will give them ....ing Aliens).

If the presenter of this video is right there is a global audience but smallish compared to Star Wars who want to follow the three precepts he outlines. He may be right but I am sure I can speak for my generation in saying we would not be the slightest bit interested in a genre monster movie. What made the first three films interesting to me was Ripley became the Alien of the narrative and the creature by the time of A 3 Assembly cut was merely texture.

I do agree with Ridley's original assessment the beast is cooked other than as a texture which deals with far more interesting themes like what is the source of this thing.

Put simply people coming to this party have widely different views but given you need to follow the money and that comes from the crucial North American audience and growing Asian audience of 16 to 25 year olds thats who the films should be made for.

Originally Ridley wanted to make two epic broad church prequels to his original film using the Space Jockey as the door opener to the story and he should have stuck to that.    

Another possibility that needs to be assessed is that the growing pessimism of these prequels are turning off a big part of the audience. These days even the superhero movies are moving away from darker stories and styles to more lighthearted and optimistic ones.

@Michelle Johnston - I do agree with Ridley's original assessment the beast is cooked other than as a texture which deals with far more interesting themes like what is the source of this thing.

Absolutely. He originally wanted to explore the Engineers more, which I would have been ecstatic for, but the gung-ho fanboys who have too much invested in Cameron's Aliens, wanted action and gore, and in order to get Covenant made, RS had to make some compromises to please everyone. And guess what: they STILL aren't happy.

I personally loved Prometheus BECAUSE is wasn't an Alien gore-fest. I loved the exposition and character building, and having now seen the Workprint version, I love it even more.

I also love Covenant. For me, it was a nice bridging of the gap between the Alien horror, and the Prometheus sci-fi thriller. I would have liked a bit more exposition on the Engineers themselves, on what David learned of their lives and ways, on their technology, and why David felt the need in his twisted mind to cleanse Planet 4 of them.

I also think it's a nice touch to have some semblance of companionship between Walter and Daniels. As she states in the extended funeral scene, they're both alone on a ship of couples, and given that the Alien universe is full of AIs that tend to have a screw loose, with the exception of Bishop, Walter is really the only one who really wants to understand humanity and appreciates it for what it is.

There is nothing wrong with the franchise, we're still waiting for Awakening which is obviously going to explain more! I can't understand why half the members are just here to slate the franchise, why are ye following it so if it's so terrible! It's actually sad

Prometheus and Covenant were brilliant films too by the way, half the trolls on here probably watched Wonder Woman and Avengers 10 times, appalling films!

Space JOC - We have to save the franchise from joylitt. :D

Haha, love it!

In fairness to Marvel and DC, I actually love Marvel, both X-Men and Avengers films. I also thought Wonder Woman was by far the best DC film so far. The Batman VS Superman film was meh... I liked Man of Steel, but it lacked the feel of the older films. The Superman Returns film in 2006 was far better, and Kevin Spacey as Lex Luther was outstanding!

Back to the topic, there will always be those who cling too tightly to the originals that nothing can ever come close. What they fail to understand is that nothing will ever be as it was in Alien/Aliens, because those movies have had their time and impact on first viewing. Alien was a ground-breaker, and I think people are expecting the same ground-breaking films with Prometheus and Covenant. It won't happen. The concept already exists, therefore, it will never have the same shock impact as the original. For me, it's about enjoying them for exactly what they are, and seeing the story, rather than focusing on the idea that there's either too much or not enough of this or that...

Seph7

Thank you for your response. I am looking forward to the official release of the Blu Ray of Covenant. I found Prometheus absolutely fascinating and the conjecture that emerged really engaging.

I was thrilled to receive the Crossing setting up Shaw's wake up and what David found out during his journey.

As someone who loves movies "The Girl On the Train" and "Manchester By The Sea" are recent favourites as well as "Carol", "The Blue Jasmin" and I thought the Star Wars V11 was very entertaining for me Covenant to was entertaining  and despite the first act and particularly the third act were extremely routine and troped I am quite certain any of the tent poles from this summer were much less interesting so its important to give perspective. I have never watched a marvel hero film, predator or transformer film in my life so if that is the point of reference then I can imagine Covenant is a good effort with much thought and thematic development but looked at from the view of Prometheus it is a filler to what ever comes next having not answered any of the central questions of Prometheus though the Black Goo finally has an official name the ALIEN PATHOGEN. 

It is important to remember that Wayne Haag the artist responsible for much of the iconic Engineer texture did say they have set aside the "Bull Shit" of Prometheus and that David is the straight line into the narrative. I am not sure  I can take hope from that statement that the questions of Prometheus will be answered or that the Engineers will be any more than texture and reaction to Davids narrative and its end.

I think possibly now its time to wait and see and in the meantime enjoy the Covenant Blu Ray and ADF's prequel novel. 

You could bring back S. Weaver back as Ripley's mother to have her killed of, or even better face-hugged and something burst for a change. That surely would increase sales. Or have her be decapitated how Scott wanted initially to end Alien. 

I think it's important to avoid letting the Xeno be too well-known on Earth. If WY truly were aware of their existence before Nostromo happened upon the Juggernaut on LV-426, I doubt it was information that was widely available, so it wouldn't make sense to have any of Ripley's ancestors be aware of them at all. In order to keep in flow with Canon, Ripley really needs to be the only KNOWN survivor.

Totally disagree.....

I will give my TWO Cents why later

But nope going a Ripley + Queens etc is not the way to Go, but i think its the way they may go....

But almost every point the Video made, they have not paid much attention..  they claim Small Budgets, but forget that we have to take into account Inflation etc...    and by this standard AC was not really a Large Budget Movie.

They also say FOX dont take risks.... yet going the route of Prometheus to explore the Space Jockey Race, in the way they did so was a BIG RISK and also with AC,  by hinting David Creates the Xenomorph again is a BIG RISK

The author seems to say we need to get back to the Core of the Original Movies  which is when you look at it..  Eggs, Face Huggers, Xenomorph and Ripley.. oh and Queens and they tried this with Alien Covenant as far as Xenomorph and yet the movie did not do as well as Prometheus... so whats next?

Add Ripley and a Queen?

They also said they should explore more about the Mythology of the Xenomorph, adding that each new movie in the Original 4 added something NEW.....    Well the Prequels are attempting to add to the Mythology of the Xenomorph and adding something very New.

I have a good idea what went WRONG with Alien Covenant, and how maybe they would now have to GO to get it back on Track and i will post this Latter.

Oh will add....  The author added that each of the Original movies after Alien added something different to the Franchise, as if they are saying each was adding something new and not like RS monopoly attempt where his movies are just following the previous ones..... 

Again totally disagree... the Original Franchise was more a continuation story that revolved around Ripley... hell even after She died in Alien 3, they had not original idea so they just Resurrected her in the 4th.

They started this Prequel Series... they now have to Finish it, i think its a INJUSTICE to just ignore the Prequels and go and bring back something else.   So if they Scrap the Prequels and then go and make another Alien movie.... by not Rebooting as the Author of that Video had said... then we could get a interesting idea on doing a Alien movie that is not really connected to the others as far as carrying on a Characters Path (Ripley for the Originals) and David for the Prequels.

But the Problem is giving something NEW (i have 3 ideas i had shared a while ago) runs the risk of what happens if you go for something Fresh?   Like the Neomorphs..?  When some of the Fanbase may just want Xenomorphs, and Queens.  FOX have their work cut out for them to Produce a Movie that will Please all the Fans who all have their own likes/dislikes and never mind try and introduce a new Audience.   I dont think movies need to bring back Ripley... and i hope we dont have to resort to this.

But i think and to a degree agree with the Video, they would have to keep it to the Xenomorph and so Eggs, Face Huggers etc but then not detract too far, because while something Fresh is Nice.... their is the risk the Fanbase will not be attracted to many changes.   Alien Covenant the Xenomorph looked a bit different, it was close but not close enough, the Chest Buster Changed in its Style too..  and i think if we try and make a NEW Alien movie that is not connected to the others and is set after the others... then if they give us the Aliens that are less connected to the Original TWO movies than  even the AC Xeno was... it may not work... so then its case of having to make the Xenomorph more like the Original than the AC one.

But then we get to the part where we have seen it all before, and it would take a exceptional Plot and Script and then Budget and Work to pull this off, and make a good return... there is the risk it does nothing New and actually just COOKS the Beast More... or try something New and have it not go down to well.

The Panic Button would be the Cash Cow, and a Alien 5 where they give us Queens and Ripley and who cares if the Plot is not good, as long as the Ripley, Queen, Xenomorphs are in it then it may make some $$$$$ from the Fanboys but then ultimately Cook the Franchise like a Friday the 13th.

They OWE it to the Fans of Alien a Answer, they cant tease and dangle a carrot then change it a bit and then totally ignore the Prequels... and then wait 5-10 years and give us a New Alien movie thats not connected to the others... some Alien Fans would have been waiting 40 years for a answer, some may have wanted it a Mystery but while they have started to Answer those Questions it would be a INJUSTICE to just ignore them.

They need to Give us that Prequel that does enough to at least make the Answer to the Mystery of Alien something thats not very ambiguous at all.

And then FOX can move on to doing something New and Different.

Ok i have watched past the 5 Min mark.... and i agree with the video after that, which is basically what my last post was about.

That indeed we need to wrap up the Prequel First... and then doing something new....

But i think they get a bit confused after that, well they confused me, because on one hand they mention they need to do something different which Prequels started... but then they said these did not work because they was tied to Alien?

Then they said a new movie would have to go back to the original formula?

so what do they mean by this.... XENOMORPH? this would contradict their point they was making.... oh what about something New Based in the Universe... this is what Prometheus was doing and especially with the Engineers and how they are connected to the Space Jockey, while tone down the Xeno links....

This attempted to open up the Universe to more than just the ALIEN and Ripley...

Sadly when people think of ALIEN they think about the Xenomorph, and the ALIEN Prefix would just allude them to think they are seeing a movie connected to the ALIEN Monster and so if AC had no Xenomorphs, but was still ALIEN: COVENANT i think a number of people would not see the ALIEN connection as far as the Xenomorph in the Neomorphs and would want something more Xenomorph.

So here lies the Problem...

You cant have a ALIEN Movie without not going to far away to the Original Alien, my 2-3 Alien movie ideas offer something fresh but you can still see the connection to the Franchise.

And so you will get some Fans who would complain about a ALIEN: Prefix movie that offers something that does not look to close to the Xenomorph.

But then if they do a movie in the Franchise that does not revolve around the Xenomorph, and use ALIEN in the Title again this would confuse and upset some, and if they do-not use ALIEN in the Title, like Prometheus did.. then it would again not make so much a connection to Alien.. and the ALIEN name and Xenomorph is the Marketing Tool they use to Sell the Franchise and they overdid this with Alien Covenant.

If Alien Covenant was simply a Stand Alone movie called.  COVENANT where its marketed as COVENANT and it contained No David, No Prometheus.

But just a Crashed Engineer Ship that its contents had infected the landscape of a once Paradise and Ideal World to start a Colony on... and so the Spores are a result and then we have a Movie about a Weyland-Yutani Colony mission who discover a ideal World, but when they get there... indeed the Planet has Water, Plants etc.. but unknown to surveys this World had been hit by a crashed Engineer ship and its Cargo had killed off all the Life and left behind those Spores.

This kind of Stand alone idea may have offered a new perspective indeed, and some loose Alien movie connections (The Company, Engineer Ship and Black Goo infection).

But then how do FOX Market this... as a stand alone movie by RS and play down Alien Links, where the lack of Brand Marketing could affect potential $$$ Income... or brand it as within the Universe of the Franchise like they did with Prometheus but then you get some fans complain because it was not a ALIEN movie

So yes FOX have a very hard job ahead.

BigDave

So yes FOX have a very hard job ahead.

Thats really the key Dave.

As I said several days ago this idea that Covenant has put the prequel trilogy in jeopardy has now got internet traction, nearly half those polled on AVPGalaxy, which is a very influential site judging by the interviews they secure, would prefer an A5 movie. 

In the end it comes down to the box office and A:C has ended up being smaller than Prometheus. One can argue from ones own needs why, until the cows come home, but the fact is Prometheus wasn't bullet proof but where it might go was really intriguing. Covenant on the other hand has placed so much responsibility on David they have left themselves in a narrow narrative corridor. That increases the sense of risk for Fox and why these rumours are floating around.

I do not have a view, I simply respond to whats on offer because my own personal needs are not indicative of either many here on other sites or in the NA 16 -25 age group. 

What I can say is when Ridley returned to the story in 2012 he was in his mid seventies and bucket listing for my generation and  its just a shame he left himself vulnerable to a straight sequel to Prom being undermined. However Sigourney could have helped by not trying to grab a second resurrection.  

Billion dollar question! 

Xeno's and facehuggers: are for the most part, stationary...You have to continually bring your victims to their doorstep! Only so many ways to get the teenagers to enter the haunted house.

"See that pod?! Go stick your face in it".

"Why?!"

"Cause we don't have a movie unless you do."

David and AI: Extremely dangerous. Will visit your planet and kill you. No remorse. Horrific and immortal. Spreading disease everywhere. 937.

Engineers: Unknown. Good evil? ?

Humans: Unknown. Good Evil? ?

I have more questions about Engineers and humans...So that's probably the direction I'd take.

Of course your needs do not match with 18-25 year olds. But here is the problem, they don't seem to like old school sci-fi. Have you read recent imdb reviews of 2001? Why would Ridley Scott or Fox make them the prime audience? they seem to like more furry Raccoons in space(I prefer him to AC). Why make viral publicity campaigns? Why kill off main characters from the previous movie without an inch of dignity? Why not hire people who like Sci-fi and have knowledge of prior events or the spirit of the series to write the story/script (Remaking Shane into Logan is not originality)? Why not take input from forums especially of those ask questions about stuff in your universe (they probably care the most and that is whom you'll most likely pay their $ for your movie)? And please no more Ripley, not her mother nor her daughter or other warrant officer 3rd grade. And If I would watch the next I (which the things are now I highly doubt) I would like some sense of wonder back from Prometheus. 10x. 

The inherent problem with trying to pitch this franchise to one particular demographic, is it limits what you can do with it. If anything, Alien crosses generations.

Speaking purely from family experience, I wasn't quite old enough to see any Alien film in the cinema until Alien 4, but my mum and uncle both saw the original in the cinema. I then took her to see AC a few months ago, and she loved it. All of us love Prometheus too...

I don't think the like or dislike has anything to do with age, but more to do with expectations depending on which Alien film you liked the most. I have noticed that many who complained about Prometheus, were die-hard Aliens/Cameron/action movie-goers. Prometheus was never going to be like that.

RS caved to fanboy pressure and tried to take a middle ground with AC in order to try to please as many people as possible. It had some exposition like Prometheus, and for those of us that loved Prometheus, it didn't totally disregard it, like many of us had feared he would.

It also had some Xeno action, plenty in fact, for all those who complained about the lack of them in Prometheus.

I honestly don't get why some people didn't like AC. I'm clearly missing something.