Fate of the Engineers

focus was solely on the beast and maybe no one could come up with anything meaningful and/ or cost effective. that's why Ridley returned, to answer this question yet I doubt wel get many answers now.

I know, but I am so curious as to what RS (if Disney keeps him on), will come up with to explain their absence in the future films...

To my knowledge, The Engineers did not exist in any form before Prometheus was made. They were not in any of the films as they did not exist in any way.

Then the PREQUEL decided who or what was in the Elephantine suits. Then we have a new being in the franchise. I think Alien, Aliens and even A3 can still get away without mentioning them but by the time you get to the year which A:Res is taken place surely there is some questions ? 

Either way i love the idea of the engineers and love the franchise. just wish it was taken better care of over the last 4 decades or so

Perhaps killing off the Engineers keeps continuity but then that begs the question:  Why bring them into play. Maybe the pilots chair should of been addressed earlier like RS suggested.

Personally, i hope this next one goes ahead and we find they are still Engineers and other races in the franchise. opens up things nicely, just the way they were at the end of Prometheus

I agree Sherris. They should be used as a platform to totally expand the Alien universe for a much more large scale and diverse (Disney's favorite word), universe for future movies.  

That was one of Ridley Scott's motivations in returning to the Alien franchise sherris. No one had expanded on who's space vehicle was on LV-426 and it bothered him.

So, Scott thought about it for a while before making Prometheus and that mystery (the Engineers) wasn't really explored Critters5 in the other films Ridley Scott was uninvolved with. Alan Dean Foster had nothing on the Engineers or the Space Jockey in the  Alien novelization nor anywhere else before the Alien: Covenant novelization. And nothing on the Engineers in the Alien: Covenant Origins novel.

I think the Engineers will end up with a cult following regardless of if they feature again.

The potential mythos created and the way it opened the universe.

I just found them so interesting i spent honestly maybe 500 hours researching the net over the last 5 years.

IMO Fox never knew what they had.

All the engineers were supposed to be on planet 4, except for the SJ incident. About the SJ Ridley Scott said it is a suit, more exactly an engineer in a suit. Now, since fans cried when David wiped out the engineers' homeworld from all the 'meat' including all the engineers, Ridley Scott realized there are some engineers on some Juggernaut on their way home, so engineers will return to please the fans. Same story as that of the xenomorph returning in Alien Covenant after fans cursed the engineers and asked for xenomorph. 

Should Ridley Scott listen to fans again or follow his own agenda and make a fresh sci fi without xenomorph, without engineers,  without Ripley? The fanbase is so divided and there is no way to please everyone so trying to do that is just a recipe for disaster.

I thought the story belongs to the author,  but the fans are now simply behaving like Annie Wilkes vs Paul Sheldon (from Misery by Stephen King).

daliens, I refuse to believe that all of the Engineers in the universe were on that planet and living in that little city. It makes no sense. It was either one of their worlds or more accurately cities or a creation/seeding of the engineers. 

it would be logical to assume the engineers colonised other worlds. give mankind FTL travel and that's probably what we will do. it gives the species more chance of long term survival as if ur species it stuck on one planet that comes under attack, theres a chance the species would be destroyed. unless of course theres something in their religion or civilisation that prevents them from doing so but I also hate the idea that they were only on planet 4. their something different in the franchise and would be a shame to have them wiped out. plus if their wiped out by the end of the prequel series, no one can use them in future films

agreed

@ali81

You raise a good point about giving into Pressure, but who knows if the Engineers will return purely based on Fan Reaction, i doubt this is the case because of that.. the reason i feel is that RS had always wanted to feature the Engineers..   But indeed backlash from Prometheus meant he had to by-pass them somewhat for AC.  I am not so sure regarding the reason they are coming back is due to back-lash to AC, it could be but i doubt it.  As surely RS would understand that DAVID caused a bigger back lash, yet he is pursuing more so with David and AI

However in the Marketing for AC and the Interviews RS had appeared to push a firm interest on the Xenomorph and how they had to get back to the movie being about THEM but more so WHY and WHO created them.  A few months latter indeed RS did mention the Engineers would return, i cant be sure if this was a reaction to AC, i dont think it was.  But certainly the inclusion of the Xenomorph and the brushing under the carpet of the Engineers and Shaw in AC was due to back-lash over Prometheus but more so in how Prometheus never gave us Xenomorphs or would not have drawn us closer to the Space Jockey Event, but a sequel looked to move further from this.....   As well as how Fans was excited for the return of Xenomorphs in Blomkamps Alien 5

Concerning the ENGINEERS and their where abouts...

Prometheus set up for a greatly expanded universe, Alien Covenant maybe attempted to reduce the size of this... so in part i can agree with the THIS is the Planet of the Engineers...  as far as thinking at the time of Alien Covenant... maybe... because RS had said this was the Planet, he also called those beings on Planet 4 the Original Engineers too.

A Problem is RS and CO seem to change their minds over and over and over, and go against stuff that has been pre-laid out prior.. Alien Covenant seemed to take on board and care about previously laid foundations as Star Wars EP8 did with the prior Movie.

Ridley Scott however said the Engineers return to that Planet from Time to Time... and they will discover what happened and wont be too pleased...

Do we ASSUME Planet 4 all of the Humanoid Engineers are kept just in ONE City this makes little sense... but we have no proof of others on that World, and if there was maybe we can assume the Black Goo Spread and killed them....

What we see however is Planet 4 and the site of Davids Arrival has a Hanger, and it also had a Juggernaught Aesthetic Docking Mother Ship and so we have to ask, does a Race live in such a mainly Ancient Way/Technology but they have a Docking/Border Control Ship?  And those Engineers are not afraid of the incoming Juggernaught?  Do they all just live in One Place in the Galaxy and only Permit ONE Hanger with only a Handful of Ships?

The Concept work and deleted Scene revealed the Hanger had 3 more Ships but as they was not in the Theatrical we cant 100% take it as Canon... but what we can take notice of is the similarity between the Juggernaught and the Docking Ship, and considering at some point the plan was the Hanger held more Engineer Ships.... on a World that apart from that Hanger was void of such Advanced Technology as on LV-223.... yet LV-223 had a abundance.

I think the difference between the LV-223 Engineers and Planet 4 and WHY they was all gathered in ONE City that had only ONE Hanger is a Big Question that i think goes against this place being where all the Engineers are... It may be WHERE they Originated from... but its far from where they are..

UNLESS... Its another Races Technology they Stole and then used to Evolve themselves.

Now as far as the Engineers in General.....

The idea for the Prequels was not just about the Beast, it was about the Space Jockey too..

Lets look at the Basics of the DERELICT

The Derelict was a Alien Space Ship, that appeared to be very connected to its Pilot (not only literally) but also by the Derelict is a Space Jockey Race Ship, this Ship had a Alien Egg Cargo the Cargo Organism shared a Aesthetic with the Derelict Ship.  Down the line RS had explained the Cargo to be Bio-Weapons and the Ship a Bomber or Bio-Weapon Cargo Plane.

As time went on RS further and further affirmed and pushed for the Xenomorph to be a Bio-Weapon belonging to the Space Jockey Race.

The Purpose for the Prequels was to reveal not only the Origin of the Cargo, but also its Purpose, WHY would it be created rather than by WHO so we have this Alien Bio-Weapon, that appears to be related Aesthetically to the Ship and the Pilot has to be connected, because he cant purely be just a random Race/Creature that Hijacks that Ship and Cargo....   And so in exploring the WHO as far as connected to the Xenomorphs, it was obvious it was related to the Space Jockey and the Ship a means to carry these Biological Warfare.

So we did not need to know in detail who the Space Jockey was, but the Space Jockey is something never to ever be covered in the Franchise, the Xenomorph had been done a lot, all we have no knowledge of is its Origin... so the Space Jockey Race No Doubt was something to be explored... but the big Questions for the Cargo was HOW and WHY This was to be shown as our Engineers and they opened up the Plot they had created us (or played a role) and then they wanted to Destroy us and hence the Bio-Weapon.

Fans was displeased a bit with this, they wanted something more Alien and Xenomorphs and not Bald Wanna Be Gods....   So Ridley Scott again affirmed the HOW and WHY with regards to the Xenomorph but now U-Turned it to David and Vaguely Why.

The Engineers and their purpose, history and who are above them was going to be something very much covered in Prometheus 2 before they gave in to Fans and gave us Alien Covenant...

The Set-up from Prometheus is these beings (Engineers) have seeded many worlds, and RS hinted that we may not be the only intelligent  life they have created, another MASSIVE CLUE is the Engineers Orrey Room AKA Space Jockey SAT NAV... 

This showed a giant Bubble of our Galaxy but outside was many many Galaxies so the Engineers or the Race who this Technology belonged have the ability to Travel to other Galaxies, so Earth to Planet 4 is put a drop in the Ocean to the Universe these beings can travel too.

What are the odds then that only Earth, LV-426 and Planet 4 are the only worlds associated with them.

Ridley Scott said and he still stands by the ENGINEERS are Space Gardeners, and so their influence and places they have been must be far more vast than those 3 Worlds.

Now to Directly Address the OP

The reason why we never heard about them in the Alien Franchise was because they was not conceived in any other movie, no body thought to address the Space Jockey/Derelict and what Race is this, Ridley Scott was bound to have some ideas and he certainly wanted to explore this many years ago.  Even as far as the 80's he even had a idea pitched for a movie prior to FOX choosing to go the AVP route.

But the fact we touch upon the Engineers as the Space Jockey, and their Race has interacted with us in the past prior to ALIEN and in Locations quite close compared to the Speeds of Travel in ALIENS, is something that needs to be a addressed and i think its something that would have been addressed.

*Why the Engineers never came back after the Failed Outbreak 2000 years ago

*Why the Engineers never came back (within Alien Franchise) after the events that will follow Alien Covenant

*Why the Company pursue the Xenomorph only via LV-426 (then Ripley)

*Whats left of Engineer Technology on LV-223, Planet 4 and elsewhere

*Whats left of Engineer Bio-Weapons and Related Organisms.

These are all Questions Raised by the Prequels that need to be addressed, so as to avoid conflicts with the Franchise, and i think in order to answer these WE WILL see the Engineers again..

IF... Disney ever plan to continue the Prequels or consider Engineers Canon.

EDIT...

I will Critters5 just add that maybe the Engineers had been conceived for us as far back as 1978 and by none less than HR Giger, despite many thinking Gigers idea was a Elephantine Race... it was not it was a Humanoid in a Space Suit... not just any Humanoid but Bald Humanoids in Space Suits not dissimilar to those in Prometheus who Self Sacrificed themselves to Procreate the Xenomorph.

Whats also of interest is Gigers works pointed to the Xenomorph and Derelict being Aesthetically and Genetically connected and the Ships Cargo Hold/Egg Silo Produced the Eggs from tiny Worm-like Organisms.

Bigdave, my question is really what do you think will be the event which causes the Engineers to be absent for all the Alien films that come after Alien? How do you think RS will write in the reason for their blatant absence from the rest of the series? What was the reason? Did they get destroyed by David? 

Since they were not thought of like that when they began Alien I guess that there is a lot that you can do with them. Hopefully we will see more Engineers in the next movie. One guess is that they went into hiding since David bombed one of their planets (AC) and what will happen in the next movie is the last that we will see of them but that is not to say that there is no one of them left in the original movies.

More Engineers (society, culture, and so on) less AI please. Hopefully they will leave it a bit vague about the Space Jockey but give us some more clues. I would like to know a bit more about the connection of the SJ and the Engineers.

As far as bald wannabe Gods you are correct Big Dave but I hope that they can flesh them out and make them more interesting. There has got to be a way that this can be done. The Engineers as seeders of life in the galaxy is an interesting idea but I am not sure how they will make that to work.

Hopefully they have thought more about this when we will get the next movie.

There are two ways in which the Engineers absence can be explained :-

1) You give their role as Space Seeders a sense of happening over the millennia where the time frame is immeasurably great so their absence for ten of thousands of years is part of their story. Indeed the extra ordinary out pouring that occurred when Davids juggernaut arrives suggests great expanses of time, the return of a vessel was huge event the entire population emptying out to greet them.   

2) The events of Awakening lead to a decision where the Engineers determine to withdraw their paternal interest in mankind's development knowing their curiosity will always get the better of them. They Engineer the destruction of David and the Juggernaut on LV426 intending it to be the end of the Pathogens story and the re-routing of the Nostromo represents mankind's failure to curb that curiosity. The subsequent story is essentially a morality tale, what is revealed is that the science division is run by artificial intelligence and is the child of David's unbridled amoral curiosity. Provided you explain all the players place within a coherent historical context it can make sense of the subsequent story. The reasoning behind the actions becomes clear and gives the subsequent story weight. 

Brilliant Michelle. 

@Critters5

This is a very good question, i thought i covered it but i will mention again, that this creates a kind of Continuity Error... However like we have rumors on Earth regarding Conspiracy Theories they can put it down to the company cover up any such information and contact.

But we still have to address the side of the Engineers, and so the Question you ask is ONE of the Biggest ones in the Franchise, especially if the Engineers Created us or was involved in our Evolution and visited us, and then to WANT to the Destroy us.

The Questions are...

*Do all the Engineers know of our Creation and the visits to us in the Past?

*Do all of the Engineers know of the Planned Destruction of our Species?

*Do all of the Engineers know about LV-223? And what had been going on?

*If their is a Race/Hierarchy above the Engineers are they aware of the above Questions?

IF the Answers to any/all of these are YES then we have to ASK they have not been back?

IF most of these Answers are NO, then surely some of the above will KNOW after Alien Covenant and then how would they FEEL?

I guess Regardless of any of these outcomes it would surely lead to the Engineers or those Above them to be Fully Aware of the Dangers Mankind and our Creations Pose and that we can NOW Travel the Stars and at very least via our Creations use their Technology.  And so its Safe to assume they would want to Eradicate Mankind from Earth, then maybe they would next have to consider destroying LV-223 and maybe other Humanoid Races they have encountered or at very least take Regular inspections on the Progress of these worlds so that what happened with Mankind and our Synthetic Creations NEVER Happens Again.

But we are still around at the time of Aliens and more so Alien Resurrection, so we have to wonder and maybe need a explanation of what has happened to the Engineers after the Time-Line of ALIEN but especially ALIENS.

Indeed as Michelle has said but we have many options for how we can explore the Engineers, a lot depends on HOW Ridley Scott Views them and he keeps kind of changing his mind on this one, a lot depends on how Literally we take his comments and that some of them can be Vague

Like Ridley Scott called the Engineers Fallen Angels a number of times, this does not have to mean they are a more Evil Faction of a Higher Race, but certainly appears to hint they are a Race maybe who once served under a Higher Race/Being or a Hierarchy but they Rebelled and began to be more Sinister.

However again the Fallen Angel Analogy could be placed purely on the beings being Demons as in in Wicked and Cruel and Far from Benevolent.  It thus could apply to them all and not mean they are a Fallen/Evil Faction of a Race.

Another thing Ridley Scott had mentioned more than most about the Engineers are they are Gardeners of Space, Genetic Gardeners if you would, but we also cant rule out them having something to do with the Manipulation of Worlds to be able to sustain Life. 

I think at the time prior to Alien Covenant we had to pay a bit more attention to the above TWO points Ridley Scott had brought up over and over, i think the GARDENERS! One is Especially Interesting, well the one that Ridley Scott appears to not be changing his mind about much.

Both of Michelle's points are important to all of this.

1) Indeed the Process of Seeding such Worlds is something that takes a considerable time, Especially if we look at Science/Archeology more.   The Sacrificial Scene if its intended to show what these ENGINEERS do on Worlds, appeared to be something that must have happened maybe a Billion Years ago... But certainly at least Hundreds of Thousands....  while Jon Spaights Draft implied a Event that showed the missing LINK between Primates and Early Hominids, the Prometheus One Appeared to be a much more Ancient Event.   And so this is a long Investment if the AGENDA was to create and Nurture a Humanoid Species in their Likeness.

Its not a simple case of Planting a Apple Tree and Waiting for the Fruit to Grow and Ripen, a lot of in-between interactions and likely further involvement in experiments and Evolution by the Engineers would be required over a vast amount of time.

The BIG QUESTION is WHY? What Purpose to they Seed Worlds and is Humanoid Creations the END GOAL?

The Planet 4 Engineers indeed appeared to be Welcoming Back a Engineer Ship, without any concern for their SAFETY until they saw the Bombardment, we have to ask WHY they had no Fear, was it a Welcoming of the Troops back Home?  I am sure on Earth after a Cold War Type Conflict that Ends the Return of a Nuclear Submarine could be Welcomed as Hero's with NO Fear of the returning Crew using one of the Nukes on the Harbor/Port?  This would be a Fair Assessment, but its not one i agree on.  The Engineers did have the Scorpion Shaped Docking Ship that Wayne Haag had called a Border Control that no doubt went to Intercept the Incoming Juggernaught, maybe the Engineers knew of the incoming Ship and this News Spread, because the Ship just Appeared from Jump Space/Warp or what ever not far from the City but the large crowd of Engineers amassed around the Hanger from the city which is some distance and they would have either wondered by chance in the Courtyard or had been aware a few minutes or more prior of the Return of a Engineer Ship.

Ridley Scott claimed that Engineer Ships Return to this place from time to time, and its certainly more than 10 years since the LAST ONE had arrived (with David), so we dont know how long these ships come and go, but it could be Many Years.   And when we consider Ridley Scott Calls them GARDENERS i have always thought of LV-223 of more than what many interpret this Place as... I have maybe babbled on a bit to much on this Point... BUT.... What if those Engineers are Collected Periodically for Sacrifices which is seen as a Great Honor for their Species? I think this fits more with everything we had been shown prior to AC. including Ridley Scotts many comments.

2) A very Good Point... and we can ponder had similar happened in the Past? Did they Abandon us in the Past, did they make a Covenant between themselves to leave us to be and not interfere and just Write our Petr Dish off as a DUD.

If they are Genetic Gardeners, and we look at Earth as a Giant Plant Pot or some Green House they seeded, nurtured and evolved various Life on. But this one in particular (Earth) proved to be a Failure or seen as a Threat due to Mankind.  If the Engineers attempted to Create a Pestiside to Clean this Plant Pot/Green House to Start Again, but the place they chose to produce this Pestiside and attempts to do so proved to back fire and be so costly to the Engineers.

Maybe they chose to abandon this Plan and Leave that Plant Pot/Green House to Rot, knowing that Mankind would prove its own Destruction and IN HUBRIS and with a Great Ego, the Engineers Felt without interaction by them, Mankind would never Evolve no More and become Stuck on Earth, and so stuck in the Plant Pot/Green House to ROT, and cant affect other Plant Pots or Green Houses the Engineers worked on.

So they maybe made some Covenant to not interfere with us, maybe similar Races to us... and MOVE on.. much like the Main Covenant in the Bible was between GOD and Noah where he Promised he would NEVER Flood the Earth Again, he made a Covenant against doing such a Destructive Event again.

These comments are more aimed at Prior to Alien Covenant however, in regards to Michelle's TWO points.