Early draft of, "The Crossing" reveals more about David and Shaw

ignorantGuy

Yes, there is a big difference between getting critical acclaim and earning a lot of money. Star Wars didn't get particularly good criticism for example.

Michelle Johnston

David and Shaw “solving a riddle together” (life/creation/the universe and our place in it), focusing on the dynamic between them and the development of character (Beauty and the Beast) in an engineer setting would be very interesting indeed! But, it would be more of sci-fi drama than sci-fi horror? So again we have the question of target groups?

Also, David probably isn’t interested in Shaw’s riddles? He has already met his creator - and is disappointed (just as Shaw ought to be after the meeting with an engineer)? Would David change through Shaw’s compassion? That would, of course, be an interesting dilemma and tension throughout this kind of film (Beauty and the Beast)?

2001 was a great movie and I agree with you that making David the creator of “denture features” “has backfired” and that the outbreak on LV-223 was quite sufficient and a “respectable beginning for penis head”.  :)

Would Shaw (not being able to create children) be tempted to accomplish this with the help of the mutagen? Well, she wasn’t particularly fond of it the first time, was she (the trilobite)?  :)

The idea that the engineer world is a barren one because of their “fall” would imply that their makers have punished them? Who are they and have they, in turn, someone who has created them in infinite regression?

Finally, the idea of following Shaw in the prequels to Alien would be appealingly symmetrical to following Ripley in the sequels?  :)

@chli

To answer your various questions. 

The supporting caste in BR2049 operate in an entirely different way to AC they are their to support one theme K's journey. We know a young actor was considered for Prom 2 and there were multiple David's. I believe like "Contact' and Ellie's father and 2010 and the messages from the machine more characters could be introduced to mediate on behalf of the Engineers and Hierarchy.

I also think if you go to the Engineers Homeworld and find out there story you finally need to meet one used sparingly it would have been the epicentre of the movie rather like the Doctor in BR2049. 

Is the film action horror et etc no thats the whole point of Prometheus is to steer away from ALIEN. 

The irony is Prom did much better than A.C.

Finally we should remember Prometheus was not intended to start a series of prequels but inhabit the same universe and go off tangentially.

Michelle Johnston

But don’t you think that the ending of Prometheus, where David and Shaw set off in the juggernaut “still searching”, was intended to perhaps continue the saga (if Prometheus was successful enough)? After having decided to make a sequel, it would have been interesting to know what the idea had been from the beginning. We don’t know what Harper and Green had in mind for us in the original scripts. Perhaps the idea from the beginning was to continue where Prometheus ended and we were supposed to follow the adventures of David and Shaw but then the fans’ reaction made them turn to a more alien-like movie and the story of David and Shaw had to be cut?

I think there is a real problem with genre and expectations. Alien was, in fact, a B horror and gore movie which had been turned into an A horror and gore movie (Scott). The problem with Prometheus was that many fans expected the same kind of movie as Alien. But Prometheus is more of sci-fi drama rather than horror and gore. As we have discussed many times before Fox and Scott then turned back to an Alien horror and gore movie and lots of action to satisfy both the fans of Alien and the fans of Aliens.

Contact is very good, by the way. John Hurt experiences a different kind of contact in Alien.  :)

chli

I watched Prometheus for the first time last night since Covenant was released. Three things were lost in the transition rather than the two obvious ones :-

1) Shaws indomitable survivor role.

2) The Engineers as anything other than fodder. 

3) David's wonderfully enigmatic relationship with Shaw. There was real narrative momentum in this rather than reduce him to a deux ex machina for the creation of the ALIEN. What makes David interesting is his relative place in the creation story which could have been played into the Engineers and their place in the creation mythos. IF life is born out of a mechanical construct then the reaction of Shaw and David would have been of profound interest from their relative positions as believer and robot and could have lead to all sorts of impact on how they react and ro each other.. 

I think Harpers Changes certainly could appear to be more closer to the earlier Logan Alien Paradise Lost Draft....

What about Paglen and Green?  We dont know really..

RS appeared to be wanting to take us further away from Alien, and to actually follow a Arc of Dr Shaw and David, a Dynamic between them both, as they need each other.... and as RS said... Once Davids Head goes back on he can be Dangerous... but he is very Persuasive

He claimed that THEY (David/Shaw) would be going to the Planet of the Engineers, where they find these beings... who are NOT Gods, not in the traditional sense, and are not Benevolent... However... David is bringing HELL with him. (Black Goo).  And what happens when that infects GOD or a MACHINE

Quite Ambiguous BUT interesting..

Does this mean they Meet these beings?

How do they find out they are not Benevolent?

When/Why does David unleash Hell? what is the result?

GOD/MACHINE...  are these beings Bio-Mechanical? or does David infect a Synthetic or Evolve himself?

So many questions those RS statements raised.

Other things he raised, was that he DID-NOT want to meet God in the first movie... hence so those Prometheus Engineers are not GODS but maybe we will discover who is above them, their Hierarchy, and what kind is that... separate Race? or just Elders of their kind?   RS comment was in reference to the edited Sacrificial Scene (Elders).

He then has mentioned over and over the Engineers are Fallen Angels... Engineers as in LV-223?  Sacrificial Engineers? Elders?  and Fallen as in Malevolent Race or a Race who has Rebelled against their Brethren or Creators?

Again interesting Questions..

Then it all went Quiet......   But then Ridley Scott mentioned Paradise Lost connection... then it went Quiet again...

Roll on after Summer 2015 and RS mentions Paradise Lost, he mentions stuff like the Fallen Angels, he mentions if the Engineers are the Forerunners to Mankind, then what made worlds habitable for the Engineers to Seed Life.... Where is the BIG GUY (GOD)

He then goes further by saying you have One Guy who is Handsome, goes to all the Parties gets all the Girls, and another Guy who is not as Handsome stays at home being boring...

And he mentions that in Paradise Lost it was the Fallen Angels who had all the Fun...

We can only Ponder on all of this, in relation to Alien Covenant and ponder what the above comments seemed to hint as far as what Prometheus 2 may have been.

I did have the Source from Febuary 2015, many months prior to RS mentioning about the Engineers Forerunners, where is the Big Guy...  and the Source gave some vague details about a lot of elements to Paglen/Green  Pandemonium Plot... a lot of this does add up to Alien Covenant especially earlier drafts and concepts not used.

Until we see any earlier 2013-2014 drafts by Paglen and Green then i can not confirm if any of the Source was correct at all.

The Picture they painted seemed very interesting and more in line with what RS was saying prior to the announcement of Alien Covenant,  The Problem is until we see any Paglen Draft or Greens then there is no way to confirm any of it..

Despite describing a lot that we see in Alien Covenant especially as far as the unused concepts...  (Dr Shaw) etc.