Was CASE FILE ADVENT sent from the surface of Planet 4?

Happy birthday Ridley Scott!

Happy Birthday Sir Ridley Scott ;)

I am going to assume David made this Transmission on the Covenant we just dont know WHEN...  (well i cant find any specific date).

1) It either implies that David has sent the Transmission Not-Long after he leaves Planet 4 which indicates that Planet 4 is near the Zeta 2 Reticuli Constellation.

This means Planet 4 is near LV-426/223 certainly surely within 5-10 Light Years but just because a object is seen near another in a Constellation they could be Many Many or even Hundreds of Light Years apart and a Object that appears to be further away from one object when viewing a Constellation may actually be closer to it in terms of Light Years than the object closest by via looking at it in the Constellation.  But i assume this is NO Coincidence so its intended to show the Signal Came from NEAR LV-224/426.

Which could make us Ponder Did the Star Map mean Planet 4 and Holloway and Dr Shaw Miss-Read it, well they turn up to the Nearest System that Matched and LV-223 was the only Planet that could likely Sustain some kind of Life that was detected (Means Planet 4 was the Star Map but had some kind of Technology so it could not be detected).  This is now open for debate...

2) The Signal is sent while David and the Covenant are passing BY the LV-223/426 System.  Which could imply that David is heading towards those Worlds... maybe even if only to TOP-UP on some Black Goo.

When looking at the Distance in Journey Time to Origae-6 and remaining Recharge Cycles, then it would appear the Covenant had only Traveled about 9-10 Months (take into account Year the Origins Novel was placed).  before it encountered the Neutrino Burst making it more likely that Planet 4 is Located around the RA 3hrs 17 Min 8.0 Seconds, DEC -62 37' 41.1" area of Space Viewed from Earth and so just South East to the Zeta 2 Reticuli System

When was CASE FILE ADVENT sent?

The pattern is rather easy to see in regards to an aqua-colored border for Covenant ship screens and amber-colored for everything else. David sent the message from the Covenant ship.

Was CASE FILE ADVENT somehow recorded before David left the surface of Planet 4 or after landing the Covenant on it?

Colored screen borders equal proof? No but Planet 4 was mentioned by Walter and Captain Oram both as a landing site, below.

I love the warm response to Walter and the cold response to Captain Oram. One area that may give us clues is Broken by Rachel Caine, the 2017 short story on the artificial person Bishop's first moments of awareness and how he is different from the others of his kind.

Rook, another model like Bishop continues to try and "sync link" Bishop and he declines it, below.

"The sensation he was feeling was a sync link trying to connect. They were programmed that way, to share data across models. He rejected the sync and said, in a calm tone that was somehow entirely different from his brother's, "Not like you, Rook."

Aliens: Bug Hunt - Broken, page 57.

I believe above that Ridley Scott was telling us that there was no sync link in between David and Walter because David didn't seem to "know" of the cabin Daniels asked about in the hyper sleep chamber.

So, David could have linked with Mother, downloaded all that he saw and learned during his studies on Planet 4, and then sent the CASE FILE ADVENT message in space. The one thing that stood out was that it appears to be a live transmission when walking through his lab.

Walter was able to "sync" with Mother once arriving on the Covenant ship, below.

"I have already established the necessary connections with the Covenant's AI....we mesh well. It speaks highly of our future cooperation."

Alien: Covenant Origins, page 341.

David was able to connect in the same way with Mother at the end of Alien: Covenant so I can assume that he and Walter were able to sync but did not much like Bishop and Rook. And Daniels figured it out just a little too late.

@ Big Dave

“Did the Star Map mean Planet 4 and Holloway and Dr Shaw Miss-Read it”.

Apologies if I have missed any previous comments from you on this, but I consider this to be a topic woethy of its own discussion. I think the implications could be huge. I know this is going a little off topic, but one theory I have is that Planet 4 could be a sort of prison/slave planet, and that the engineer s do have factions. My theory goes along the lines that perhaps some escaped from Planet 4 and travelled to Earth. The cave drawing were just to indicate were they were from and not an invitation. Also, if they did come to Earth and were found out, did that attract the attention of a controlling Engineer faction to seek out and destroy at any cost, that being wipe out all life on Earth.

This is just a theory of mine , but I think there is certainly a wider discussion to be had on the misinterpretation of the cave paintings.

@ Ingeniero

Was CASE FILE ADVENT sent from the surface of Planet 4 ?

My next question would have to be who to?

I say this because there was no follow up team sent to LV223.

We are told in AC that The Prometheus vanished, yet we know Shaw sent a signal back to Earth, so why was this not followed up?

The Covenant crew were likely unaware of the Prometheus follow up investigation. Like any major conspiracy / secret mission, the company would have covered it up but behind the scenes, sent a recon party to investigate.

The Prometheus mission was probably dismissed as "vanished" and people within the company didn't think twice. It's unlikely the "public" would have had any knowledge of the mission either.

It may appear as a Live Stream.. (i am not sure we should consider it as such though). but what we have to remember is David is a Machine, and so everything he sees is stored as if Captured from CCTV Cameras and so David could Transfer his Visual Memories at any point by uploading what he wanted.

Also every drawing and experiment would be recorded into his AI Brain and so when WE Look At/Stare At say a Piece of Art and its in our Memory, with David it would be as if WE take a Photo of that Art... it would be like WHEN you are on Vacation or at a Party and you take your Phone to Video and take Photos of the EVENT and then WHEN you go to upload to Social Media you then EDIT the Video, choose what Photos to UPLOAD.

I think this would be how David could UPLOAD anything he has seen and done, Thats how i look at it... i dont think David needed to go and collect all of his WORKS... but then we ask WHY do those drawings anyway if his Memory Works like Photographic.

But we cant rule out him taking some kind of Equipment from the Covenant to make a Transmission Recording and go back down to his Work-shop....   Once the Covenants Crew are all TUCKED up in Cryo-sleep, David is FREE to go back to the Surface of Planet 4.

This opens up the possibility that he could acquire more Face Hugger Embryos or Eggs and also get some more Black Goo for his Future Experiments.

@Batchpool

I think with the Plot and Ambiguity anything could be explored, and so we CANT rule out that the Engineers who visited Earth came from Planet 4 similar to HOW you suggest. (Escaped).

I think we have to look at the Paradise Lost connection a bit as this was to play a part in the sequel to Prometheus (but maybe not a Literal Deep Re-telling but Elements followed for sure) and we dont know how much of such passed on to Alien Covenant.

I mentioned before about Planet 4, both before Alien Covenant got released and after, and in those discussions i brought up the Paradise Lost connection and HOW we had RS refer to those Engineers (likely in Prometheus) as FALLEN ANGELS.

When we are looking at Paradise as in Paradise Lost and the Biblical Context, and assuming that Planet 4 is the Paradise that David was told about by the Engineer in Prometheus, then as i have said before we maybe have to consider what that PARADISE is.

*Paradise is NOT were GOD/Gods come from.

*Paradise is NOT were the ANGELS come from.

*Paradise is THE location of the Garden of Eden

*Paradise is WHERE the Cradle of Civilization/Mankind came from. (were Created)

*Paradise/The Garden of Eden is a place that secluded from the Outside and often looked at as being a Place within a Wall, its Translation come from Persian Pairi-Daeza (Around Wall/Compound)

*Paradise is watched over by Cherubim Angels who are tasked with Guarding the Garden of Eden 

*The Fallen Angels are Forbidden from Paradise.

*Mankind were Banished from Paradise after the FALL of Adam and Eve.

If we consider the above in that Context, then indeed we could wonder are the Engineers who visited Earth or those on LV-223 Engineers who were BANISHED from Planet 4?

Regarding LV-223 and Dr Shaws Signal, i find it hard for HOW the Covenant could not detect this IF Planet 4 is quite close to the Zeta 2 Reticuli System or IF the Covenant was near this location at the time of the Transmission.

I am surprised NO-ONE went to LV-223 at some point after Prometheus and in light of the ADVENT i think it would be even more ODD that a Company Mission would not check out LV-223.  You would assume they would send out a Mission to Origae-6, but also the location of Planet 4 and LV-223 too.

I believe that is correct Chris.

All of Weyland-Yutani's signals have synthetic "white noise" (Alien: Sea of Sorrows) to contain information with only a few with the technology in order to see everything. I would assume all the COMNET feeds uploaded to the Prometheus from the suit feeds, then to COMNET from the ship or Lifeboat. Any follow up activity on LV-223 would most certainly be classified. The Covenant crew would most likely be in the dark as far as Prometheus Mission details.

"Was CASE FILE ADVENT sent from the surface of Planet 4 ?"

I really can't prove that it was Batchpool. 

BigDave is correct in his analysis. All I can get from the colored-borders is that CASE FILE ADVENT was sent from the Covenant ship. And I still believe the bottom photo shows the Covenant on Planet 4.

That Certainly was a interesting Image/Quick Shot from some of the Trailers to AC, that we NEVER saw in the Movie.

It is 100% the Location NOT-FAR from were the Lander had Landed on Planet 4.

The Question is what context/role did this shot play?

I assumed maybe it was a CUT shot from when we had the Scene of Daniels having a Flash Back with her Husband, a rumored Scene that never got included. (i was discussing this Prior to the Release of the Movie).

The Scene where she and Jacob would have talked about plans for their Mission and the Cabin on a Lake... a Scene partly set in a Apartment on Earth, in a City where it was Snowing.

I assumed that the Scene when she has Thoughts/Flashback (after she looks at the Video of Jacob on the Tablet) which leads to the Scene in Question in the Apartment, at the end of it i assumed she would see the Cabin on the Lake, and then we go to a shot of her looking out her Living Quarters Room Window ( on the Covenant) and we see through it the Lake, and these then Fades to Stars.  As we then see her Staring into Space.

THIS is where i assumed the Shot Fitted.

It appears with the Release of some Concept Work by Wayne Haag this assumption was correct.

This one is Named Daniels Apartment

This One is Named Daniels Cabin.

But off course... that Shot looks exactly like the Area they LAND in Alien Covenant.   She has never been to Origae-6 and we dont know what any Probes showed, so its likely the Vision she had would have been how she IMAGINED it would have looked like.

But by Actually using the same location they SHOT the Landing Site, they open up a interpretation for Fans to speculated this means this shot is FROM that Location, and so the Covenant must Land on Planet 4.

This is just the same way that some could interpret the Prologue Background  Image as Proving that Weyland either had knowledge and had sent  a Mission to Planet 4 prior, or indeed the Location of the Sacrificial Scene in Prometheus.

But i think it was purely a Philosophical Connection to show that OUR Creation had began at that Sacrificial Scene Location, and so this is in the Back Ground of Davids Prologue purely to indicate a Philosophical Connection with Creation as in Our Creation and Davids.  It is not intended to indicate that Weyland had got that image and thus knowledge of where was Created (Sacrificial Prometheus Scene) its just a Coincidence they look the same, and intended for Philosophical Reasons.

The Cabin Scene likewise... its to show Daniels looking out her Window to the Stars and then imagine what the view to the Cabin would look like...  i dont think its intended to show that her Room will end up on Planet 4.

HOWEVER.......

Thats not to say this may not happen... they could show us this Scene in the Sequel, where they could reveal that David takes down the Module/Living Quarters with that Lander (as i feel that was its Purpose) and that he then drops Daniels off and thus leaves her Stranded on Planet 4

I am not sure the Covenant was intended to be Landed... i think the Ship is comprised of Modules that can be taken down to the Surface and then Assembled/Connected.

This could make a interesting Plot.... how would Daniels Feel?  Abandoned on a HELL of a World, when she expected to awaken at a New Paradise (before she discovered who Walter really was).

She would have NOTHING, and would be in FEAR of the World she is left behind on and the Dangers....

What happens if Walter Recovers and Discovers her or she Discovers Walters Remains?

If David is going to Origae-6 we have to ask HOW do the returning Engineers know where he is going, and discovering Daniels and Walter would provide them with the information to where David is going.

This route would also allow Daniels/Walter to be one of those incoming parties.  With Engineers, and TWO Weyland Missions being the others.

I am not sure the Covenant was intended to be Landed...

Covenant can landed. But can't start to flying. If David land the ship, he will remain on the planet forever.

I certainly think that eventually the ship could be landed provided it finds the suitable location, and then indeed Leto it may be very unlikely once it does so, it would be stranded on the surface.

The Ship appeared to have some kind of Modular Look to some of its Compartments, and looking at the Lander that Tennessee used to rescue Daniels and Co... it seemed to me that the Ship's Modules would be taken down Bit by Bit.

But that does-not mean the Ship cant be landed on a surface, so thats a Good Point.

Well, that's not a point. That's AC: Origins. ;)

Indeed and forgive me... i was  not trying to be Ignorant, i have yet to Read the Origins Book ;) 

Something i must do ;) (get round to reading it).

Does it give much insight into the Operation of the Ship?  As i was assuming based on the Modular Design and the Purpose of the ONE Lander.  I was also thinking IF we consider the Covenant a Real Mission, then taking down Pieces off the Ship to be assembled on the Planet and keeping the Ship in Orbit makes sense as the Ship could then function as a Satellite/Communications Platform and it would also be a Back Up Plan and Means of Escape... and also useful to have as a EYE in the SKY to help Monitor the Planet. 

But having the Ship Land would maybe Limit such Potential, have to say with ONLY One Main Lander (other Destroyed in AC Origins) it would take a long time to Transport Thousands of People.

Looking at the Design of the Covenant and trying to think Scientifically, it would appear such a Design would have difficulty in taking off ONCE it had landed on a World with Gravity and Forces like Earth.

I have highlighted what i mean in this image, i wonder if the Origins Book does mention anything about the Covenants Nature as in what i was assuming it would do.

The Covenant ship was built in Earth orbit (according to Alien: Covenant Origins) and most likely would be difficult to launch from the surface so I believe you're correct in regards to taking off Leto. The engines below look like they could move into place for a landing.

Excellent BigDave, thank you. I got to say that the Covenant ship modules do resemble a familiar structure. Hadley's Hope does look like these modules broken down, below.

(source)

Captain Oram does mention "housing units" and "civic complex" when speaking of a landing site to Daniels, below.

I have highlighted what i mean in this image, i wonder if the Origins Book does mention anything about the Covenants Nature as in what i was assuming it would do.

Got it. I think that these modules will be separated from the ship after landing on the Origae-6. Separation in space and then transportation to the planet with a Cargo Lift looks like a thousands of hours and very very hard work. Btw, if Cargo Lift will broken - dead end. Well, i think that some modules (or internal cargo) will transported to the planet to prepare the landing site for the Covenant.

I think thats another Good Raised point Leto.

When i had looked at the Covenant and the other Cargo Lander/Crane i had assumed maybe this would be how they take down the Modular Compartments.   But indeed maybe overlooking any real BACK-UP Plan.  Because as you rightfully pointed out, should this be the ONLY means to move Compartments from the Covenant and this Got Destroyed then they would be up £$%"£ Creek without a Paddle.

So a Back Up Plan would be to have the Covenant be able to LAND... But maybe also the Ship is intended to LAND and the Landers/Cargo Ship are used to get stuff from the Landed Covenant to other locations on the Surface.

When i made such assumptions was prior to the Covenant Origins Novel, and Overlooking the Ship has having ONLY TWO Landers (Had 3 in the Novel from what i heard).  And so having TWO Main Drop Ships (One Destroyed) and One Craft to Move Large Objects around would seem like Putting all their Eggs in ONE basket

@Ingeniero

That Part of the Ship does look like they are some kind of Secondary Propulsion and so they could likely be used to AID with the Landing of the Ship.  Much like how we see the Secondary Propulsion  Engines only be used by the Lander's when they are in the Planets Atmosphere to help with Vertical Lift and Landing.

Something i should have considered that the Covenants Main Ship would also have.

To the OT- good eye! I didn't notice that before. I think the simple answer would be that the colors show the source of whomever is sending. Makes me wonder if footage from the crew or cargo lift would change to blue if forwarded elsewhere from the Covenant ship- or if it would even matter. The point is that there is the possibility for some creative editing from the Covenant if someone wants to send a false narrative...

Actually I have thought about that a few times and I personally like the idea, that the signals (Davids Lab Videos etc) were in fact sent from Planet 4. This is for the following reasons:

1) David is stuck on Planet 4. If I recall correctly ADF states in the book, that the Engineers in a last ditch effort made their spaceships incapable of flying. Alternatively you could imagine, that the spaceships seem biomechanic and maybe they also were damaged by the black goo - either way David was stuck! What's the probability of humans going to a Planet (Origae-6) to which coincidentally Planet 4 is just on the way. I find this highly unlikely. What would David have done on the Planet? Experiment with the black goo, sure, but then what? He needed living organisms to spawn his creation. On Planet 4 there were none left so either leave - which he was unable to - or bring someone in. OBVIOUSLY he should have done everything in his power to bring about a pick-up service. The pic below is titled "shipyard arraybuilding" (and by the way: you can see many of these buildings in the city during the bombing scene).

https://www.avpgalaxy.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ev-shipard-arraybuilding-v03.jpg

You cannot tell me that he didn't find some transmitter site in the Engineers city.

2) So they're coincidentally going just past Planet 4. That Planet is almost exactly in the same direction as Origae-6 mind you - yet they didn't discover it when they were (as they're saying as soon as they discover Planet 4) "scanning the whole sector".

Possibility a) yet another coincidence.

Possibility b) the Engineers have a "technology which renders the Planet invisible". If so, then how come the Covenant suddenly can see it? Surely the Engineers have one hell of a technology but making a whole Planet invisible? Sorry but this is so far fetched.

Possibility c) the Planet was indeed discovered while scanning the sector... but then it seems it was deleted from the star map. I find this much more plausible when considering that David somehow contacted WY. He established a secure link so he would be sure only the intended recipients would get/decipher it. He informed them of what he found and it wouldn't be WY if they didn't want to get that technology and know-how into their hands. David is one of their products after all and they surely would have been confident that he would follow their commands. So they picked out an Alibi-planet and deleted Planet 4 from the star maps. Then they sent out the Covenant with an official but fake and one secret but actual mission. Which leads to the next point.

3) The hypersleep-pod of the captain malfunctioned. Well what was this supposed to be? And don't you dare say coincidence! If the journey to Origae-6 was just an alibi and the real purpose was to send a ship past the Planet David is stranded on (and where he seems to have found the doomsdayweapontechnologyofever) to go pick him up, obviously the real mission would have been a secret operation - we all know WY and how devious and greedy and willing to sacrifice others lives it is. "Crew expandable". So it is fair to assume that only the captain would be informed. And sure enough his hypersleep-pod grills him. I think RS wanted to show us something there. I would not be surprised if somebody (WY) helped making that happen. Maybe even he was given a false info and to prevent him from telling the others as soon as he would get suspicious of David, WY purposefully sabotaged his pod to silence him (or for one or the other reason).

4) When Oram is in the egg-room with David and Oram asks: "Are they alive?", "They're waiting" says David. "What are they waiting for?" asks Oram and here David replies: "Mother" - or maybe he says "MU-TH-UR"?

5) Back on the ships he loggs in with "Security Code David 123456789". Why has the board computer his security code? And when he orders MU-TH-UR to play Wagner, she even says "Yes David". There should be no David unit on board?!? "Oh well he hacked the computer". Really? I mean David is an AI and so on and so forth but the f**ing board computer is navigating a spaceship with 2000+ humans on board through the milky way. You would expect it to have some security mechanisms, backup systems and a firewall, paired with some computing power to fend of unauthorized attacks? Maybe set off the alarm if David enters the password wrong three times in a row?

And while we're at it: is it just another coincidence that the "neutrino burst" happened just as they were about to fly past Planet 4 or what? Has David triggered that explosion with the Engineers technology somehow? Did he knew the Covenant was coming? Did he see it with some Engineer scanner or telescope in the arraybuilding? I mean producing big explosions isn't really that big of a deal. We can make quite big explosions. To enlarge explosions should be something that the Engineer technology should be able to produce. Maybe the golden pillars on top of the dome had something to do with that or were they just decoration (rhetoric question there)? A neutrino burst... In the Paradise script at least it is said to be a supernova. Neutrinos are the lightest particles we know. They simply cannot affect the spaceship, period.

All in all I think one can reduce it to my first point. That one point nails it. I find it highly unlikely that a spaceship is just going by a Planet which happens to be undiscovered but hospitable, which happens to be the (home-?) world of the engineers, which happens to be the one David is stranded upon - whom you might expect to do everything he can to eventually get off that planet. And since the Engineers ships seem to be kaput he only has one chance. Which is to get picked up by a spacecraft coming across.

WEYLAND-YUTANI KNEW ALL ALONG! DIAL IT IN OR WHAT, DUDE!!!!11!1!

Missed to reply on this Topic ;)

Great Points jdvyne

I think the Main Thing thats going in is PURE Coincidence at the sake of Plot Convenience which is basically a Excuse for Lazy Writing ;)

But a Good Conspiracy is always FUN ;)

I would also think that could WORK... but if we take it a STEP Further by having it that some Rogue A.I is Pulling the Strings and Humans have always been the Pawns..

Which was the idea i had for my Prometheus 2 i was working on in 2013 with Project Rook... where it would be Weylands A.I Soul that is pulling the strings ;)

The question posed is answered 24 seconds into the video.  It's sent from somewhere in the vicinity of Zeta 2 Reticuli.

Welcome S.M.  You're correct.

The above title graphic is for the topic where we tried to wrap our heads around the system, here. I'm not sure we made much progress during our debate, analysis.

Is there a planet that we have seen in the other Alien films that was once called Planet 4 or did the signal bounce from this system, or...?  I think that's the synopsis of our works.  

Certainly there is little doubt about WHERE the Transmission Originated from, a point that i raised in this TOPIC recently.

This shows approximately where the Signals in the Franchise came from... Derelict LV-426 Signal and where David had Transmitted the Advent Message after the events of Alien Covenant (we assume).

I think while we dont have Specifics i think we can Safely Assume that Planet 4 is located in the Vicinity of where the Advent Signal was Transmitted and that LV-223 should be within the Vicinity of the Derelict/LV-426 Signal.

Regarding Planet 4 i think its a Good Question to Speculate as to WHY this is NEVER mentioned in the Franchise (Real Reason it Never Existed at this Time lol)  but now we have the Prequels we can Speculate to WHY they never went back to Planet 4.

I think we CANT rule out that the Company had been there prior to the Aliens Time Line, but its just something that has YET to be Covered in a Movie/Book but its something that could be covered in Future.

"Is there a planet that we have seen in the other Alien films that was once called Planet 4 or did the signal bounce from this system, or...?"

Sorry, not sure what you're getting at.

We've seen LV-223, LV-426, Planet 4 and Fiorina.  The first two are located near the co-ordinates, but not at those co-ordinates.  If Planet 4 was near there, other ships on the way to Thedus would've picked up Shaw's signal.

"We've seen LV-223, LV-426, Planet 4 and Fiorina.  The first two are located near the co-ordinates, but not at those co-ordinates.  If Planet 4 was near there, other ships on the way to Thedus would've picked up Shaw's signal."

This has always bothered me, let me clarify...

I don't think Zeta II Reticuli is any near the shipping lanes between Earth and Thedus. Remember, the Nostromo was rerouted by MU-TH-UR to the Zeta II Reticuli system when it was on its return journey to Earth. If the derelict Juggernauts signal (and therefore Shaws signal and Davids Advent signal) was able to reach the Earth-Thedus shipping lane then surely the Nostromo would have picked up the signal before arriving at Thedus. It evidently did not.

While we know the Nostromo was rerouted by MU-TH-UR to the system, it is my belief that it was done so maliciously so that the Nostromo would then be in range of the derelict Juggernauts signal allowing MU-TH-UR and the recently (at Thedus) planted Ash synthetic to ultimately enact special order 937 under the guise of Weyland-Yutani's somewhat forceful extra-solar signal investigation legislation (investigate signals or forfeit shares).

Pulling Up Mountains

While reading Alien: Sea of Sorrows, where the city was buried thousands of feet underground, I was reminded of parts in Paradise Lost, Book VI where the Fallen Angels are confronted by Angels sent to fight them.  In all their might, the Angels sent were then put “to some disorder” when attacked by “devilish engines” built by the Fallen Angels.  

Do the Engineers do something similar to this in response to what David did to those on Planet 4?

Chapter 17 Necropolis

“Then he stared at the discovery spread out before him, with a smile that couldn’t go any wider. A metropolis, really. It looked to be centuries old. The city was vast, built on hills and spreading down into areas where, once, there had been valleys, most likely cut by rivers. It was stunning, even with everything in ruin. Scarred and pitted surfaces, buildings that had collapsed nearly to the ground, yet still they were wonders.” 

Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 127.

Do The Engineers Confront David?

Could Planet 4 have mountains pulled up on it by Engineers that confront David if he goes back to the surface of Planet 4 and the planet eventually ends up looking like LV-178 or LV-426?  

"THE ARGUMENT

Raphael continues to relate how Michael and Gabriel were sent forth to battle against Satan and his Angels. The first fight described: Satan and his Powers retire under night. He calls a council; invents devilish engines, which, in the second day’s fight, put Michael and his Angels to some disorder; but they at length, pulling up mountains, overwhelmed both the force and machines of Satan.”

Paradise Lost, Book VI, page 135.

"From those deep-throated engines belched, whose roar

Embowelled with outrageous noise the air,

And all her entrails tore, disgorging foul"

Paradise Lost, Book VI, page 152.

THE DOWNFALL OF THE REBEL ANGELS by William Blake is on this page in Paradise Lost.  This painting, I believe, resembles the Alien: Covenant movie poster, enhanced below.

Long story short....does Weyland-Yutani cover up the events on Planet 4 and then the Engineer city is discovered much later by miners/someone else that is prospecting/colonizing?

And by then is the planet is called something else that we might recognize?

"If the derelict Juggernauts signal (and therefore Shaws signal and Davids Advent signal) was able to reach the Earth-Thedus shipping lane then surely the Nostromo would have picked up the signal before arriving at Thedus. It evidently did not."

Agreed, a head scratcher Gavin...this may be reconciled with how Weyland Corp compartmentalizes information and the proprietary tech that embeds "Synthetic Static" in all signals that hit the network.  

"the signal embedded inside of that synthetic static. Weyland-Yutani owned the patents on the devices that created that artificial signal, and on the hardware and software that could break it down.."

Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 160-161.

"I think we CANT rule out that the Company had been there prior to the Aliens Time Line, but its just something that has YET to be Covered in a Movie/Book but its something that could be covered in Future."

Excellent BigDave.  The novels tend toward the Company covering up past misdeeds on inconvenient planets.

Certainly Gavin

I think its interesting to ask what became of the WARNING that Dr Shaw had left.   I think regarding Thedus etc i am not sure we have any Specifics on the Location of this Place or HOW FAR it is from LV-223 i have not read upon the Expanded Novels so i cant really comment much on the Location of Thedus, doing a quick search it seems its in the Outer Veil which is region of space which separates the Outer Rim and the Core Systems and Fiorina "Fury" 161 is also Located in this Region but i am not sure we have any Specifics to HOW LARGE this Region is or how FAR away Worlds like Fiorina 161 and Thedus are.

What we do know is that LV-223 is about 39LY from Earth and the Signal was Transmitted on January 1st 2094 and so thats 28.5 Years before the Nostromo arrived at LV-426 it is Highly Likely that Dr Shaw's Signal was Received at some point..  The only way it could-not have been detected would have been.

*If the Range of the Signal was Short and it was Transmitted just ONCE.

*If the Signal Failed to Transmit past the Point of where Dr Shaw had recorded it.

*If the Signal was on a Secure/Coded Chanel.

*If it was Turned Off at its Source.

How could any of these be Possible... well they could indicate that David was responsible?

With the other Signals again it depends what we take as CANON and i would assume we are to Accept the Prequels as Canon, and so the ADVENT would have been Transmitted on a Secure Chanel so only a Limited Number would be aware of this.

And we have to assume that as of the Year 2105 there is NO Signal on LV-426, and if it seems that David would go to Origae-6 first then that would mean as of the Year 2112 there would also be No Signal on LV-426

I think something we can ASSUME would be that if NOT receiving Dr Shaw's SOS was NOT enough to Warrant a Investigation on LV-223, then surely ONCE the Company Receive the Advent from David they would surely Consider that LV-223 is a Place to Check Out, and in Light of Dr Shaw's Warning they would be Prepared to some Degree (Military).

@Ingeniero

It certainly seems like there is some Cover Up and Conspiracy within the Franchise, i think this is a Intriguing Subject.  And so covering such Cover Ups could be Interesting but at the Moment we are also in the DARK on such a Subject!

I think there is always the Possibility that A.I could be behind the Scenes, it seems Ridley Scott was interested in A.I and that the Sequel to Alien Covenant would be more about A.I and we have seen RS indicate about the Hubris of A.I and what THREAT that could pose to Mankind something that Steven Hawking had suggested could be our Down Fall!

In Context to A.I we saw RS also suggest that the Replicants are A.I and so we are NOT just confining this to Computers and Software... but the Hubris of Engineering, Tampering, Evolving and Experimenting with things and NOT leaving things to NATURE... and so Playing God can be a Hubris.

RS also had suggested the Planet 4 Engineers are the Originals, and so we can Speculate if the LV-223 Engineers are Genetically Engineered Super Engineers, either Created/Engineered as a Slave Race/Combat Troops or if some Engineers had decided to Genetically Alter themselves.

So we have a Rebellion and Fall on our hands!

Looking at the Paradise Lost and those Images, they are Similar, and before we GOT our Sequel to Prometheus i had Speculated on here in 2012-2013 about the Fresco Image and Paradise Lost, in wondering was there a Rebellion and then ONE Faction had attempted to Punish/Destroy the other with something Horrific... which DID-NOT do the Job and lead those Fallen Engineers to then take this Punishment and Re-Engineer it to Create the Horrors on LV-223 that these Engineers then intend to use on Mankind and their own Creators/Brothers?

These were some of the Things i was going to indicate in my Prometheus Sequels i was working on in 2013-2014.

Regarding the PULLING UP of the Mountains!

Ridley Scott did indicate in 2015 about if the Engineers were the Forerunners of Mankind, then WHO was it that made Worlds become Habitable to Support Life in the First Place... were was the BIG GUY.

The Hierarchy/Creators of the Engineers could indeed possess some Technology that can MOLD and Terra-Form Worlds... and so Create Natural Disasters... of Various Kinds.

The Source i had from November 2014 had Claimed the Engineers Creators possessed Technology that could do this and this Technology is used to Terra-Form but also to Eradicate Life and that the Great Flood and Ice Age are but some USES of this Technology to Destroy!

So the Pulling Up Mountains could be some kind of World Manipulating Technology when we think about that, then Volcanic Activity can be seen as a kind of Pulling Up Mountains and Volcanic Activity is the MOST Destructive Natural Disaster we have on Earth.

If something could EFFECT and cause all the Active/Semi-Active Volcanoes in the World to GO OFF within a 24-48 Hour Period we would be in for a DISASTER of Biblical Proportions that would make the Suggested Asteroid Impact that KILLED off the Dinosaurs look like a Small Disaster in Comparison.

LV-426 has a lot of evidence of Volcanic and Seismic Activity, we could WONDER are these Influenced by some kind of Technology/Event long ago and if we Speculate that then WHY?

Again such things are something i had Pondered when trying to Expand the History of the Engineers and their Creators ;)  It all came down to Cosmic Eggs ;)

"I don't think Zeta II Reticuli is any near the shipping lanes between Earth and Thedus. Remember, the Nostromo was rerouted by MU-TH-UR to the Zeta II Reticuli system when it was on its return journey to Earth. If the derelict Juggernauts signal (and therefore Shaws signal and Davids Advent signal) was able to reach the Earth-Thedus shipping lane then surely the Nostromo would have picked up the signal before arriving at Thedus. It evidently did not."

According to the Weyland-Yutani Report, that's exactly what it did.  The signal was originally believed to have come from a lost mapping satellite.

Z2R is not on any shipping lanes, but it is near the main route for Earth-Thedus.  Cosmically speaking.

I don't believe Mother did any re-routing. Whoever put Ash on board did that.

And if David transmitted Advent only once then the Nostromo isn't going to pick it up (unlike the repeating Derelict signal).  Shaw's LV-223 signal could've easily ceased by the time other ships were going past - transmitter power ran out or got wrecked by the weather.  And the Network wasn't as established at that time.  And it assumes Shaw set the message on repeat.

@S.M.,

While I appreciate that you worked on the Weyland-Yutani report, in terms of canonicity it holds about as much weight as any of the speculation we have here or on any other fan-site. For me, and for us all (IMO) the movies are the only canon, and even then the information related towards us should be treated in contextual terms - for example the Space Jockey is not fossilized because Dallas said so, and David cannot create something that was recorded to have existed (Facehuggers on the mural on LV-223) at least 2000 years beforehand. 

What we know happened pre-movie, from the movie and deleted scenes (are they canon too?) is this - Nostromo traveled from Earth to Thedus, at Thedus their science officer was replaced with Ash, the Nostromo tugged the ore refinery back toward Earth, the Nostromo was rerouted to Z2R.

This and the events of the movie dictate that the Nostromo was SENT (by whom, we can only speculate) to Z2R with the intent of obtaining a Xenomorph specimen, this was not an accident or a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

"the Weyland-Yutani report, in terms of canonicity it holds about as much weight as any of the speculation we have here or on any other fan-site."

No it's not. And that is why we have a WY Report - that would abstract from fan theories.

"for example the Space Jockey is not fossilized because Dallas said so"

Yes it is! Dallas was a narrator is SJ scene. There are no his assumptions. Dallas conveys the author’s intention directly to the viewer. The Space Jockey is fossilised.

"and David cannot create something that was recorded to have existed (Facehuggers on the mural on LV-223) at least 2000 years beforehand"

I like this argument, but, tbh - facehuggers on the mural doesn't look like the classic. The maximum that we can assume is all the results of experiments with Black Slime give rise to many different forms of facehuggers and aliens. David created an Alien, but only his own version.

Yeah, there are no facehuggers on the mural on LV-223.  There's an early Giger concept, that isn't the same as the one David created.

As for the Jockey - Dallas though it looked fossilised, and while he's not an expert, it was fossilised right up to the point that Ridley changed it so it wasn't.

Odd that only films apparently count, when this whole thread is based on something that never happened in a film...?

No Space Jockey in the Alien Novelization, Core to Prometheus

One thing I'd like to note about what is or not canon...isn't the Space Jockey missing from the Alien novelization?  

"The discovery of the derelict alien vessel and the eggs within it differ between book and film - the finding of the huge, long-dead space jockey, which would later inspire Prometheus, is notable for its absence - but the sense of the unknown is masterfully handled."

It is hard to argue that the Alien novelization isn't canon but also hard to reconcile with the story now focusing on the Space Jockey (article on the subject).  

The Weyland-Yutani Report

To me, The Weyland-Yutani Report is like any other corporate report you may read and then find some details do not reconcile and need further explanation, maybe correction.  

The report itself goes some way towards how the Xenomorph eggs ended up on the Sulaco by filling in the blanks in regards to eggs found in places other than near the Queen on LV-426.  And by giving insight into Bishop and Burke's relationship.

I noticed a date of 2089 that was off (by a decade) in the opening for Project Genesis.  

That gets on my nerves because I hold Dr. Elizabeth Shaw's notes and memos on her so dear but I'll live...I can make it.  So, I consider the report official.

Canon...until Ridley changes the details.

This message below was also in Phobos and another reason why I believe that the signal might be from the surface of Planet 4, potentially the secret destination all along.

I think there is some Good Points Raised here and i agree that the ULTIMATE Canon is the Movies, but that does-not mean that other things cant be Canon.

The Biggest Problem with any Canon/Material is they are always subject to CHANGE... which is WHY i never Purchased the W-Y Report as i considered it INCOMPLETE due to us NOT-YET having a Origins Conclusion and so it was just a case of things in the REPORT could be Subject to Change.  But i applaud the Work and Effort that went into it, and a Majority of the Information would have been deemed Accurate at the Time or Close to the Time of Print.  Should we ever Conclude the Prequels/Origins then i guess a Revision of the Report is Warranted and would make a MUST HAVE Purchase.

Regarding other stuff on here i think a lot comes down to Personal Interpretation and Opinion again.

1) Space Jockey, we have to remember it began as a Skeleton (Starbeast) it evolved to some Skeletal looking being HR Giger Necronom V which then HR Giger had to design a Concept Based of that which looked to NOT be a Skeleton, but due to the Color Scheme on the Prop and the Head it appeared to be Skeletal.

But we have to take what Dallas had said as his ASSUMPTION and that the Space Jockey is a Space Suit and i cant see that Changing.

2) Mural in Prometheus to me simply indicates that the Engineers had came into Contact with or Engineered different kinds of Face Huger but this does-not prove that the ALIEN 1979 Face Huger had existed Thousands of Years ago.

Essentially the Mural was a Easter Egg of Sorts a NOD to HR Giger, but those working on it had indicated it was showing the Deacon (this does-not mean the Dr Shaw Sourced Version).

3) The Rerouting of the Nostromo seems to be that the Powers to Be who had Autherised Special Order 937 where looking for a Expendable Ship/Crew that they could use to Obtain a Specimen, and the Nostromo must have been a Convenient Ship that fitted those Parameters that would have been on a Route that would NOT be Vastly off the Path to LV-426.  They had it routed to Thedus to Place a Agent (Ash) on board to make sure the Objective is Reached (Special Order 937).

We cant be sure when the Company was aware of the LV-426 Signal but it seemed they had only Recently Decided to take Action on it Not Long Prior (weeks, months) before they Placed Ash on the Nostromo.  Looking at Alien Covenant i think the Sequels would have given us Information that would have lead to Special Order 937

Ingeniero

"No Space Jockey in the Alien Novelization, Core to Prometheus"

No it's not! There is only one reason: ADF wrote a book on a script in which there was no Space Jockey. If you are familiar with the creation of the film, then you know that the studio did not want to make an expensive SJ layout for the sake of one scene. And only at the end, when the book was already written, the jockey was added to the film.

The same situation with AC, where David bombards Engineers. This scene is not in the book because it was also added to the film after writing the book.

And of course - David create ovomorphs in film/David stayed on the Covenant in the end. But not in the novel! Why? The same reason - the film was changed after writing the book. I know that some people say that the ADF doesn't like Ridley Scott's ideas or he write some or that he writes a kind of fan fiction, or that he had to constantly consult with Ridley Scott so as not to miss any of the director’s ever-changing ideas. No, just film was changed after the novel was writing.

Maybe there is something to write about the time between Prometheus and Covenant. Hopefully it will be about more than crazy David. Maybe ADF is about to write a story like that. He seems like a good writer judging from an interview at AVP-galaxy podcast. Eventually his novel version about Covenant is better than the movie since it can not be much worse.

The more he adds that goes against David as the creator of the Xeno the better. The idea that David started it sucks and should never have been in the movie at all. If ADF is trying to go against that then good.

It would be nice if they would have something about the Engineers in the book. What did not get a lot about it in AC so hopefully there will be more information about them there. An idea is that if we will get a third movie they should not have too much in the book but then if there will not be a third one they can have as much as possible in it. There could be a third option that they are trying to release a book about the Engineers or with them in it and judging from how well that book does depends on if they will release a movie that features more of the Engineers. Hopefully the book will have them as creators of the Xeno rather than David.