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Prometheus Revisited

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chli

MemberChestbursterSeptember 12, 2019

After interesting discussions with Michelle Johnston (and agreeing with most of the conclusions on her blog), I felt an urge to watch Prometheus with commentary on, listening to Sir Ridley Scott, Jon Spaihts and Damon Lindelof sharing their reflections on the making of Prometheus. I have compiled some of the thoughts which I find interesting here and have arranged them into different areas. There is no silver thread running through this post, just some observations.

The Opening Scene

In the opening scene, we see primaeval Earth. In the beginning, we see it from the viewpoint of the seeding ship (Engineers looking out through a window upon Earth), its shadow moving over the ground. It’s a lifeless Earth and the sacrificial Engineer marks the dawn of life on Earth.

When the Engineer has drunk the mutagen he dissolves into parts and smoke (small airborne particles), seeding his DNA into the water and air, spreading it over Earth.

Sir Peter Weyland

Weyland is, at least not in the first place, after money but only to prolong his own life. Being a superior being, he deserves this . . . (hubris). The theme of the inevitable death is the same in Bladerunner where Roy Batty seeks his creator in order to ask for more life (which his creator cannot give him).

Miss Vickers

As cynical as her father, she’s merely interested in a career within the company. She is not interested in philosophical questions. After awakening, she asks David if everyone’s alive - in actuality referring to her father (knowing he’s onboard) and hoping there will be an end to this ridiculous expedition: “Doesn’t everyone want their parents dead?”.

David

David is instructed by his “father” (Mr Weyland) to help him find a way to prolong his life. He even tells him to “try harder”. He is instructed not to harm a human being so, therefore, he asks Holloway what he is prepared to do in order to find his answers. Holloway answers “anything and everything” and thereby greenlights David’s action (spicing the drink with mutagen). David despises his creators who humiliate him (They made him because they could) and whom he believes he is superior to.

The Space Jockey

The Space Jockey is an Engineer and at the end of Prometheus, we see him return to his chair, going full circle with Alien, as it were. Strapping himself up in the chair, he becomes one with the engine and the juggernaut.

The Space Jockey on LV-426 is responsible for what happened on LV-223 and is eventually infected himself. After the chestburster has exited through the ribcage, it makes off and finally dies somewhere.

Humans

Humans were created by the Engineers, “in their image”. There was no higher purpose, just an experiment (Earth was their petri dish). They made us because they could . . . and when they weren’t pleased with the result, they decided to unmake us.

The Monster

The Deacon, or the xenomorph, is created through human (or hominid) sacrifice (which is seen in the mural), just as the Engineer, in the beginning, is sacrificed for creation (of life).

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BigDave
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I think it goes deeper than that while also remains Ambiguous, there have been Various Comments and extras that seem to Change Conclusions a little. Also the idea has changed/evolved from Spaights Ideas (Alien Engineers) to the Shooting of Prometheus, to the Cutting Floor and Changes..

So i would like to Elaborate on a few things ;)

The Opening Scene

This could have been Anywhere, it was to show us HOW the Engineers chose to Seed Life, it was indicated they would then come back and Further Evolve Life over Time... But indeed it shows us that this Process had been Carried out on Earth too, the Sacrificial Scene already had Plant Life and likely Basic Life so this was the Catalyst that allowed for Complex Cell Evolution (but a similar Sacrifice could have taken on a Baron World Many Millions of years prior).

Sir Peter Weyland

It seems that he has made many Advances in Medicine but he has STILL not been able to discover the KEY to Immortality or Greatly Extended Life, he is Dying and so he sees the Findings of Dr Shaw as a Last Ditch Effort to meet our Makers in the HOPE they can Grant Him more Life..... he feels he Deserves as such!

Miss Vickers

Certainly has little Interest in this Venture, she thinks its Pointless, she would rather be at HOME and preparing for the Aftermath of the Inevitable "a king has his reign" and this Queen would rather be Home preparing to Sit on the Weyland Throne!

Maybe she picked NOT the best Bunch Employees so that she can hopefully get this over and done with and BACK HOME!

David

Is more Complex to go into detail, he seems to be aware he is more Superior, he also seems to aspire to be more Human and treated as such... we see a Pinocchio kind of outlook to him... he has a Childlike Wonder at certain things, he is kind of a Boy at Heart, a Boy who is Molded by his Environment and Treatment he has a Curiosity about him and what makes Weyland think he is a God.... he is not Fond of Humans, but then with Dr Shaw he seems to be Impressed by her Resolve, he was following Orders, but desired to be Free and Once he is... well thats where its AMBIGIOUS what he would want to do NEXT.

The Space Jockey

Certainly the aim was he was a Engineer, Scale got Changed, but there was enough to show the Events of LV-223 and LV-426 are Connected.  There is still that aspect the Space Jockey had performed a Benevolent Act.... but Benevolent for WHO.. likely his own KIND. 

Ridley Scott indicating the Ship was Quarantined on LV-426 as the Space Jockey knew he was infected, and this Event happened either a Few Hundred Years after or Prior to the Main Outbreak 2000 years ago.

Humans

Further Indications are they had Created such Life in other Places, and at some point we were Visited and Taught things by the Engineers, until we became Sentient and Rebellious and seen as a Threat. And so Potential was seen in us but then also Potential Threat.

The Monster

The Mural and Frescos seem to indicate the Engineers realize that Sacrifice was needed for these Monsters, and seems they had attempted to Engineer different versions in the Pursuit of some kind of Perfection they had Admired...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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BioDegradable
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But there is no controversy in these observations though nor any news are there? And if so is it just "A man watches Prometheus"?

The other post by BigDave spurred another throwaway fantasy. I am not sure it is all that new and original, but:

what if the two sects of engineers are oppositely dualistic. One sect (living on Planet 4) are these beings cultivating and seeding life, believing in all the stereotypical good things,

while the other sect - couldn't be more different: they believe in sacrifice but their idol is this monster-beast that is depicted on the mural (ultimately Xenomorph, whom David evolved) and their shtick is to sacrifice all the life seeded by the other sect on planetary scale in the name of science and progress. They enhanced themselves. They look different. They love their goo(which might have been appropriated and adapted for a different purpose). Sacrifice a planet with its inhabitants, whole civilizations even - no problem for them. So in the end you have the two: a religious tradition VS the science/engineering/progress. A bit like in the old times : church vs science.

Now, David who is, no doubt a pinnacle of scientific research, completely unexpected by the engineers, probably doesn't have high opinion of one of the sects. He took all the best from both of the sects though - the goo from one faction and the subjects to conduct his experiments from the other. The end result is another pinnacle - Xenomorph, his success.

Weyland was a pioneer, indeed a god of sorts, in a way similar to engineers - he created David from scratch, a form of life that engineers couldn't have foreseen. He miscalculated that his achievement would be appreciated so much by his makers that he will be given immortality. Why? Because he made David practically immortal, and if he, Weyland made such a thing, surely his creators have such powers - and he hoped to be granted this gift, because he was the first of human civilization who has reached this goal. Unlucky Weyland got to a wrong sect. He should have gone to Planet 4. Perhaps they would have appreciated his efforts a bit more.

Nice night for a walk : washday tomorrow, nothing clean, right?

The answer is irrelevant. Have a good journey...

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BioDegradable
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Now David has a lot of bio-material at his disposal. He has the mutagen. He already created perfection in one form. Why not create some diversity, enhance it a bit? After all he should be for all the different life forms - he himself is this representative of alternative life form. He is also a good amount smarter than all his fore-bearers.

Nice night for a walk : washday tomorrow, nothing clean, right?

The answer is irrelevant. Have a good journey...

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chli
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BigDave

Having listened to their comments, my interpretation is that the intention was to show us what happened on Earth millions of years ago (but that this could also have happened elsewhere). It also makes sense that in the beginning we see the sacrificial Engineer seeding Earth with his DNA, and later on Shaw finds a DNA match between Engineers and humans.

Furthermore, even if we see green areas here and there, they talk about starting life itself (although Scott is a bit inconsistent).

David is, of course. more complex. Is he following orders or has he become sentient and has a free will?

BioDegradable

Most of the things I put forth has been discussed and disputed here. That’s why I went back and listened to what the creators of the movie had to say, that is their intentions.

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Michelle Johnston
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@chli

Fantastic to see you respond to our conversation. As this is your thread I will not introduce any adjustments I consciously made to make the Prometheus moments more integrated. 

I will comment on the assumption that we are looking at the film from the perspective of 2012 not 2017 or 2019. 

1)The Donation. He is offering both what he is, catalysed by the creation tool for humanoid development, it has nothing to do with plant life when Rildey talks about seeding it is a metaphor. The world in question could be anywhere and it might have been terraformed as the movie makes it clear they have that capacity. 

2) Sir Peter, spot on, the sole purpose of the mission created by Damons work is to ask the question of their makers. Everything else is expendable and David is programmed to serve Sir Peter.

3) By the time we move into the third act both his children want him dead. Vickers is actually the candid daughter by this stage at least she tries to warn him, David is dissembling or to use Ridley's words he is poison in the narrative. Michael explained this in a IV that because he is programmed to mimic human emotions to make them feel more comfortable the question arises when do those become cognitive real reactions. The answer is in the third act. At the same time he finds Charlies goading vaguely irritating but he did not spike his drink as a personal response. Charlie just happened to be in the way after receiving the orders from Sir Peter to try harder.

4) The Space Jockey is an Engineer an 8 foot humanoid 9 foot with the helmet and the difference in size to the original movie is as Jon and Damon said to make him more relatable and connected, rather than a vaguely humorous giant elephantine creature. It is artistic licence for the needs of the story.

5) Humans you nailed it Charlie gives third party exposition explaining what actually happened. Earth is a petri dish.

6) If you have ever read Cavalorn's blog you will know he thinks thematically and this story is all about sacrifice. However the big question for movie 2 is this :-

a) The humanoid experience was enhanced by Sacrifice.

b) The dark angels pursued sacrifice to create their line of monsters leading to the summation "The Deacon." , immortalised in the sacrificial pose whose story telling was originally supported by a sacrificial bowl but the key and we know from the riff at the end is its created from .....you guessed it hosting.  

c) The behaviour of the ALIEN life cycle triggered by Cane lead to non consensual sacrifice through hosting.

The big question whats going down on the Home world? How do the "Engineers" procreate "naturally."

Great to see someone else watching and listening carefully and not being distracted by all the noise or allowing their own strange prejudices in.       

PS I am working my way through my narrative and will probably be finished in a couple of weeks. 

 

 

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hox
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dk
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hox Nice find. It is very intricate and comes complete with the green screen bowls.

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Gavin
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I'm gonna be blunt and honest here (uncharacteristic I know - joke)...

Prometheus was a pretty movie with an absolutely stellar performance from Michael Fassbender and a wide-ranging performance from Noomi Rapace, but...

Everything else is just a contrived and convoluted mess.

Firstly it uses recycled content that was cut from Alien. Usually, when ideas are cut from a movie there is a justifiable reason. Should the alien talk in the next movie? Will it be revealed that an early version of Davids Facehugger resembled a turkey? Is the Alien gonna start crab-walking everywhere?

Secondly, the bulk of the movie is based on John Spaihts needless and preposterous retconning of the Space Jockey into a tall guy in a suit. HOLD ON. A screenwriters way of revisiting one of science fictions most amazing scenes ever committed to film is to make it a tall, bald guy.

Thirdly, Prometheus was meant to be a direct prequel to Alien. It was to be set on LV-426, that ship was the derelict and that guy was the Space Jockey. Yes, it was on-the-nose, but it worked narratively. When they decided to change the narrative to an indirect prequel they should have completely rewritten it. Too much of the original concept remains which confused general audiences (see HISHE video for proof) and no amount of Lindelof mystery-boxing ambiguity can mask that.

Fourthly, the religious and mythological overtones and connotations, the Daniken ancient alien conspiracy, and the precursor/creator race additions to the Space Jockey, now called Engineers mythology do NOT belong in the Alien franchise. ALien is about the fear of the unknown, the loneliness and emptiness of space, the unforgiving and unrelenting nature of existence beyond our comprehension. Alien is not about space Jesus or a bunch of bald nitwits that seed life and destroy life as they see fit (which is what the opening scene was meant to represent).

Finally, and this points towards Alien: Covenant too. Alien is about an Alien "thing" that is alien in nature, behaves in an alien manner, which is driven by alien urges. The clue is in the damn title - ALIEN. Alien was meant to show how alone and insignificant we are, not to make us the center of the universe. If O'Bannon and Giger were still with us our "gods" would not be shaved-headed jocks in nappies, they would have become Lovecraftian terrors, and the mere possibility of having David "create"  the Alien wouldn't have made it past the first draft.

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dk
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Usually, when ideas are cut from a movie there is a justifiable reason.

Gavin Spot on with those points- except Prometheus would have made more sense and been a better movie if they HAD left the deleted scenes in imo.

It would have been an outstanding stand alone sci fi movie if it didn't have the Alien connection.

 

 

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ignorantGuy
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Gavin You seem to forget the Giger murals cut from 1979 movie which clearly depict bald humanoids with space suits sacrificing one of them to the Alien. The elephantine thing was a comic book addition which itself retconned Giger.

The fear of the unknown was cancelled out from the series at least in 1986 with Aliens, which made the xenomorph space Ants. Why is that worse than the alien mimic-ing speech or using telepathy? How could even be there a franchise about the fear, as with every installment you re-use cliches and tropes established? You know storytelling form contains meaning.

The rest of what you say is purely subjective and just as subjectively I say that things like the Necronomicon are long not scary, but trite cliches.

dk Without the Alien connection there would be no Prometheus, 

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BigDave
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I think that with Prometheus we had a Evolving Concept, that Certainly had a Basis during the Progress of Production and Idea, that had then been Evolved a bit prior to Shooting, and then some Elements further changed Post Shooting but there is still a Base Structure that was Present up to and after 2012....

Post Shooting we get the DVD Commentary, the Furious Gods and some Comments in Interviews by Ridley Scott and Damien Lindelof some of these Interviews are Specific to where they would go NEXT, some are in regards to what we got.

The DVD Commentary, and the Furious Gods can help to make sense of each other but they also differ a bit too, the same is when you apply some Comments in Interviews.

When you then add Visually what we see in the Movie then things can be Interpreted a little bit different.  This is something that Lindeloff was proud of as it Creates Subjects for Debate.

so regarding the Sacrificial Scene, maybe its a Oversight that this World would Scientifically have had to have some Form of Life prior.... again it could indicate that the Sacrifice was NOT the First Time such a Event had happened on this World.  The Broad Purpose is the same Regardless which is the Engineers had Chosen to use such a Route to Spread their DNA which would be incorporated in the Life that would Evolve on said Worlds.

I would say the Petri Dish comment by Holloway is something that in part could be correct, but there had become more than that..... the WHOLE reason for our Creation is still left Ambiguous you can be drawn to Certain things depending what Source of Information you use.  The Drafts and Parts of Furious Gods indicate there was a Important Reason for Creation....

I think with many aspects of the Movie it can be interpreted a bit different, but Commentary and Interviews do help to Paint a Certain Picture.

The Furious Gods stands out by Virtue of its Name, as part of the Plot about HOW we had done something that had Seriously Upset those Engineers to the point of wanting to Eradicate us.

WE can only Speculate if there was at some point a Benevolent or Loving way involved in our Creation or Evolution, its likely that we are NOT that important as we would think....  especially in context to the Engineers had likely done the same thing OVER and OVER on other Worlds, and maybe also Multiple Times on Earth.

So this bares a lot to what Holloway said when he Told David because we can.... as far as Create David, it was a Arrogant but True Statement but there was more to Creating David than because Weyland could...... but it is Davids Reply that is more Significant... regarding HOW he would feel if his Creators said the same about Mankind.

Which is that while we dont have a 100% reason for exactly our Creation, we are not Unique or Important, so the Engineers would look to us no more than how Holloway had looked at David.

I think when looking at Prometheus there are some Important things that are covered....

1) Creation, what is the Purpose of Creation, does there have to be ONE? (There could be Many).

2) The aspirations of Perfection/Evolution a agenda to Improve something.... does this always have Benefits?

3) Knowledge, and how certain Knowledge can be Good, but Knowledge in the Wrong hands could be bad, and so its a case of how much do you pass on or allow your Creations and at what Cost?

4) Becoming Sentient, Rebellion and how Free Will and Knowledge can lead to such things, when your Creation does not see their Purpose in Life as being all they should be and have Aspirations, or take on Ideas that are against what the Creators had intended.

5) Control/Containment.... in that Certain Rules, Knowledge can be used to Control a Creation but how sometimes these Mechanisms do-not get Followed to the Letter and then you have to Intervene..

6) Punishment/Destruction in that sometimes when things are not going to Plan and getting out of hand, then some Pretty Drastic Measures are required. Measures that are Necessary to Protect the Larger Agenda of the Creators.

These 6 Things are connected on Multiple Layers....

We then have the whole Chariots of the Gods, Pre-vistation Plot used to Connect the Creators/Creation Plot.

Then we have some other things that are so Loosely Touched upon that the Exact Reasons are NOT really addressed, these are regarding a Soul, and the Pursuit of Immortality..... which the Movie does-not give us any indication as to exactly what is entailed... its left Ambiguous.

Sacrifice is also one thing i Forgot to mention that is inferred in the Movie for a number of reasons, it is Important on a Number of Levels.... The Engineers especially Value Sacrifice and what it means to Offer a Sacrifice..... so SACRIFICE is a Important part of what is going on.

The LV-223 Experiments, Mural and Xenomorph Connections, again are Ambiguous we have a Engineered Weapon at Play thats used to Eradicate but there are so many things that make the Reasons for this Ambiguous.

By that there could have been other means to Eradicate us, and at some point they Concocted the Horrors on LV-223 but then its open to if these are used to Eradicate or they are just a Stage of Evolution those on LV-223 had intended for us...

So what this leaves is a Ambiguous Wonder at the Movie and where it could take things..... it certainly allowed for them to Change things as the Progressed towards working on a Sequel.... which took a Different Turn after 2014.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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dk
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To the last two posts- Prometheus would have been a good stand alone movie unrelated to the Alien movie (which was originally touted as a direct Alien prequel). Ridley should have maybe just made Prometheus as its own franchise without the Alien aesthetic. 

If a movie needs extras on a DVD later after the theatrical run to fill in blanks, then that seems like an admission that audiences felt the movie was lacking and that translated to the box office bottom line. It's not that audiences want everything spoon fed, but most probably don't want to do bacheloriate level research prior to watching a new movie. Don't blame the audience for the cold shoulder. 

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BigDave
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Firstly i will apologize in Advance to Chli for this Next bit being a bit OFF TOPIC and also to Gavin in the hope you dont take this too Personal ;)

Ignorantguy had beat me to a Certain Point...

At the Point when HR Giger was brought on to work on ALIEN, the Pilot of the ALIEN ship, had been Conceived to be Humanoid/Bi-Pedal in Aesthetic.   His Concepts had depicted Bald Humanoids who Self Sacrifice to Procreate the Xenomorph and the Space Jockey was a Space Suit.  The Actual Prop ended up looking a little Different to his Concepts.

So when exploring the Space Jockey in a Prequel which they deemed as the More Important thing to expand upon, over a Beast that had been shown over and over.  Then Jon Spaights had decided that there are reasons you have to do something like he did...  You had to introduce a PLOT to HOW those Human Characters would END up arriving at the Location the Movie would take Place.

The other option would be by Pure Accident... or to have detected the same SIGNAL that the Nostromo was sent to Investigate...  So the Chariots of the Gods Plot worked as a way that would give a Reason WHY some Humans would end up on LV-426 (at that time).

The same Plot would also open the Door for Possible Communication and USE of their Technology. By and with Humans (and Created Androids).   The Alternative would be a ALIEN Race that had NO interaction with Mankind, who then Humans would have NO WAY to talk to or Vice Versa which would Limit any Potential Sequel.

Going for a 15ft Elephantine Organism/Race that has NO WAY to communicate with us, would just show us a Species that would just go POSTAL on us perhaps? (they could have came up with ways around this Telepathy for Instance).

They had a Dilemma of how do you represent the Space Jockey as the Skeleton of a Alien Race, especially if they decide the Snorkel is a Organic Trunk (which it did-not appear to be) so you Potentially could have had something that would look more Comical than the New Born, Actually the New Born would look like the Space Jockey if we attached a Separate Breathing Apparatus to the New Borns Nasal Area...

So they went for Humanoids... we have to Wonder how much Spaights really knows about the Franchise, it appears NOT too much!  Some things he overlooked...

Also it seems he was NOT AWARE of the HR Giger Concepts, that depicted Humanoids, well it seemed he never indicated them as a Influence in Furious Gods.

Regarding Alien Engineers etc.... it conflicts ALIEN, in a few ways.... if we accept it as a Direct Prequel, then the Signal is not the same, the Beacon comes from the Pyramids... it is likely this is to SHOW what also happened to the Space Jockey on another Part of LV-426 some Thousands of Years Prior.

I will AGREE that Prometheus had Toned down too much of the ALIEN DNA and lacked enough ALIEN Action....

I also agree the Chariots of the Gods Plot and Engineers are steering a bit away from what was ALIEN about the First Movie, especially more so with Alien Covenant.

something more Lovecraftian would have fitted more, but then its HOW do the Humans come to this Place?  It would again have to be via Accident, or detect the Space Jockey Warning Beacon.

The SCALE was a Problem.... but the Intentions were 15ft Engineers, then 12ft.... then at Production 10ft but ALAS what we ended up with was 7.5ft by Virtue of Ridley Scott preferring to NOT use much Special Effects and CGI.

Again Chli sorry for going OFF TOPIC ;)

And Gavin..... i do think something more ALIEN should be introduced as a Higher Layer of that Creation Cake! Something more ALIEN.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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BigDave
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@dk

Certainly.... i think IF the Plot was changed to NOT connect to ALIEN and so Aesthetic was toned down too, so it was a Stand Alone... Different Shape Ship, Different Space Suit to a degree.... NO Weyland Company.

As a Stand Alone i think we would have had Multiple Sequels by NOW that would have become Interesting.

A Prequel was always going to be some kind of Poisoned Chalice

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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ignorantGuy
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@BigDave I repeat myself, there would be no Prometheus without the Alien connection. What studio would spend 130 million on Sci-Fi horror without brand recognition or adapting an already established IP? And then again when Prometheus was launched wasn't it said to be in the same universe? The prequel route was clear taken only with Covenant because of fan reaction and corporate greed...

@Gavin I forgot to mention that your precious fear of the unknown was undermined in the first movie by Giller and Hill, who introduced the Corporate conspiracy in the script and who wanted to make the Alien a human weapon and the crew of the Nostromo test subjects. Was that not human-centric? In my book Ancient Aliens are far better than what Alex Jones spouts... 

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Gavin
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Lemme simplify my point...

Desert island DVD, you can take either Alien or Prometheus, not both which do you take?

If we could poll that chances are most of us would choose Alien.

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ignorantGuy
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Gavin You don't have any point there as the comparison is not fair. Why do you compare a movie which generated a franchise which was in decline for years when the second one appeared.

And to answer your question I would rather take 2001 instead of either of them. Hack, today I would take Beyond the Black Rainbow over any of them.

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Michelle Johnston
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@chli

 

I would just like to demonstrate how I make judgements because its clear yet again from this thread people can not establish more than "Its vague" which isn't helpful to you or anyone reading. If matters are still "it could mean anything" after 7 years it is unlikely they are going to have an epiphany.

Humans.

 1) The movie begins with an image of sacrifice with some purpose. The creature disintegrates and we see images of cells being attacked broken down and reformed. All the natural informational stimuli (colour, music, aesthetic) indicate the cells produced are an enhancement and a wonder.    

2) We cut to cave paintings with someone taller than humans pointing to a star system. The implication is there is a connection between these creatures in the paintings and the previous scene. 

3) Dial forward and Elizabeth discovers our DNA matches the inhabitants of the Moon and she tells us we come from them. There is no other narrative agenda nothing indicating anything different.

4) Charlie having sobered up reacts to the news they made us and said there you go there not gods they made us and earth is a goddamn petri dish. David has already said they are mortal after all. So a superior species deliberately created us. 

So we are now in lock down the inhabitants of the Moon did make us and through hours and hours of documentary there is no evidence to dispute it.   

5) We then discover they are involved in making monsters and the black glope produces outcomes which hint at what we saw in the first film. We see images of sacrifice in the Sanctuary which is a place of worship a point that Elizabeth lets the audience know.(Headroom).

6) We know by the end our makers are not very nice and they intended to come to Earth and destroy and replace us. The story evolves through the Hammerpedes, Fifield, Charlie and the Deacon to show us what they are trying to replace us with. Fifield was mid point to the deacon so as not to steel the coup at the end. (Production confirmed).

 

So they made us because they could and they want to replace us because they think they have learnt how to. There isn't one single narrative twist, production comment to suggest anything else and as Damon said Elizabeth is our proxy she is telling us what is going on. 

We were made by dark angels who had Promethean like stolen technology. The huge philosophical point is our relationship with our creators is not benign or an accident. We are as constructed in the mind of our creators as much as David was and can be upgraded.

Why did they want to destroy? Because they could and wanted to improve upon the design in their view. Why else would they destroy us? Why is there Davids signpost in order to create first you must destroy. 

How come they were destroyed at exactly the time Christ died? No idea.

Is the relationship with the Engineers Home world and the Moon consensual. Two possibilities :-

  1. a) Yes and they are one group with an anthrax island and a seperate place to hang out. That doesn't make sense because the Moon had been unattended for 2,000 years there is no evidence of rebuild anyone coming to sort out the mess etc etc   
  2. b) No the Moon is rebellion from the Home world, that makes sense and the Home world sees the place as quarantined.

So we now know the Space Jockey race made us and they made other nasty stuff besides and they intended to use the glope to change things which everyone and their dog on the production team said was essentially the liquid form of the Morph.

Who made them ? No Idea

What does God think of them ? No idea.  

I do not see dissembling in any of this a cigar is a cigar unless you are navel gazing or easily confused or both or have your own pet conspiracy theory and for the avoidance of doubt people don't have to like it.  

  

    

 

 

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BigDave
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@Ignorantguy

Certainly i had not indicated the Movie would have been MADE without ALIEN, i was saying the Plot would have worked if it was NOT connected, but Certainly would such a Pitch of a Plot that was  NOT SET in the same Universe had got the Go Ahead?


Maybe or maybe NOT... but Certainly it would have been Unlikely to have got the Level of Budget for such a Project... this Investment INDEED came about as we was getting a Movie set within the ALIEN Universe.

If it was not then such a Movie would have been Much Less Likely to see the Day of Light, or had anywhere near the Budget.... more so if the Pitch was just Jon Spaights as he had NOT had anything Produced at this Point, why they went for a more Well Known Damien Lindeloff to Re-Write it.

So your Point is Very Valid, without Alien then Idea/Plot would have struggled to get off the Ground... or Certainly would NOT have been as BIG a Block Buster Investment.

@Michelle

I think some Elements are open to Interpretation, some Elements had enough shown to us, that when we consider the Commentary and Ridley Scott and Damien Lindeloffs Comments they draw us to a Certain Conclusions... some other Interviews do Muddy the Water a little, and things had Evolved from Inception to the Cutting Room Floor, but as far as Comments/Commentary regarding the Theatrical Cut then the Summary you make is what i conclude from the Movie too.

But still there are Elements that allow for Interpretation and Discussion and Opinion, some people do seem to Overlook the Cast in the Movie where some Dialog is Actually there to SPOON FEED us whats going on... well to Indicate things to us....

The Nuts and Bolts could be as Simple as...

*Ancient Superior Beings got Bored, and Decided to Sub-Create "idle hands are the devil's workshop"

*Decided maybe they can make some USE of this Creation and Teach us Stuff (but there is Ambiguity to this because it could be a Group of Engineers decided to do this, and it was not the Overall Plan for us).

*Engineers then began to Experiment with other stuff on LV-223 and became quite Fascinated with this, and Decided that Actually these Experiments and the DNA they have are something that they would go and UPGRADE their Creations with... what out of Boredom? because they found that the Pathogen Deacon DNA is something they see as being something NEW to try as they are Bored of our Creation?

Maybe but there is Elements of Ambiguity to that... its not CLEAR CUT and DRY.

So some things are Ambiguous in My Opinion that is, does that mean thats Correct? Nope! but RS had made further Indications about certain things that changes things.

A Example "sometimes to create one must first destroy"

This can be taken as those Engineers certainly at least on LV-223 had became much more Interested in what makes things like the Deacon Tick, than Evolved Apes like us, and so its a case of lets go and Evolve our Creations with this Deacon DNA/Traits because they feel this is a Enhancement, something Better, or they became bit Bored of Ape-Men.

On the other side of the Coin it could be that this STUFF is what they  had intended to go and WIPE the Slate Clean, that then Hundreds or Thousands of Years they can come back and START AGAIN...

Now my Interpretation on this is that the Last Statement is more True... or Was.... but that those Guys on LV-223 had became Fascinated with the Deacon and how it came to be and Decided to Factor this Beast as a Evolutionary Stage instead of WIPE the Slate.... the Question is that would this had been a Unautherised use of the Creation/Seeding and Destruction Tool... which is a FALLEN ACT?

Ideas about Certain things Change/Evolve in the Minds of those who are Giving us these Prequels, this is why some of Ridley Scotts latter comments after the DVD Release appear to differ a bit from what was on the DVD/Blu-Ray Extras.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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BigDave
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"Lemme simplify my point..."

I think thats a Hard Question...

I would say YES to ALIEN... but i think as far as what ALIEN had evolved into over the Franchise, then i would have rather had gone to WHO the Space Jockey are as opposed to more Queens and Bugs and Ripleys...

Just the Execution was FLAWED, they Toned it down too much with Prometheus.

The Thing that kept me Interesting in ALIEN was more so about HOW/WHERE and WHEN was that Xenomorph Created, and WHO are Space Jockey are.. that Mystery!

If the Movie was about a Cave on a Baron World that had Eggs that was Discovered as they Intercept a SOS from another Ship that had got there First (especially if this Ship was NOT a Alien Race)... 

And so we have a Cave, Eggs.... NO signs of Technology, Murals, Rituals... just a Alien Organism found in a Baron Cave...

Then i think ALIEN would have been a Decent B Movie Horror Flick with a COOL Monster... and Nothing more for me...

Yeah we could have go ALIENS still etc... but for me the STAND OUT Scene of the Franchise is still the Discovery of the Derelict, Exploring the Ship, the Pilot Room and then the Egg Cargo Hold.

Each time i saw the Space Jockey Scene i was in AWE!

That is what is ALIEN in my mind anyway, the Prequels had made it less so to a degree.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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