Ridley Scott blames the diminishing returns of AC on the "Alien" itself

He also had a lot on his plate and had to prioritize. He went with the studio's guidance with using the Alien more. It was a gamble that didn't seem to translate into expected profits. I enjoyed it and supported it anyway. Hopefully there will be a good script/story and Scott will be allowed to do what he wants. It is sounding like his heart may not be in it anymore.

dk Exactly. He is not passionate about it and he is so stubborn!

He was passionate about the universe expanding I think. That's why Prometheus was so different, but good. APparently he didn't want to bring the Alien back in until later, but stuck it back in because that's the alien. The Alien is cooked, as he said before. You can't just keep making the same monster attack a group of people one by one in EVERY single sequel/prequel. If you can't expand on that and add more to it, why keep making them. They become a joke like Freddy and Jason movies.

drucea Then they just need to drop the Alien name. That is misleading advertising. However, I think the monster is alive and kicking for whoever wants to revamp it, expand on its origins and try different settings and situations.

drucea  They become a joke like Freddy and Jason movies.

Bingo! I said exactly that in the past.

Dracula, Frankenstein and many other had countless spoof versions, Abbott & Costello, Mel Brooks, etc. And after all that you can still get Francis Coppola's "Dracula". It is a director's responsibility and it is his choice to make it scary or not.

Spoof versions are one thing. Continuing the series in a serious manner is another. I think the Alien name should be kept. Honestly, if something came out without acknowledging "Alien" in the title, I would probably pass it by.

dk Would you go to see a movie called "Alien" with no aliens in it?

 joylitt No way, and that is one of the reasons I hate on Prometheus. Wasn't in the name but we all knew what it was supposed to be.

Don't care if I ever see another Xenomorph again....A L I E N was perfect, that was all I ever wanted to see of that creature...leave the rest to my imagination...For Alien2 I would have moved on to something really terrifying.

Aliens was just a bunch of dudes(xenos) standing around.....scared of fire.

I see Ridley as trying to retrofit a delivery system around a well known concept. I think he knows exactly what he is up against, and is completely right in saying that something new needs to be introduced. I think this is why Ridley is going down the rogue AI route and setting things up for a third movie that can create a story that does not have the predictability of Prometheus or AC. Ridley has left a massive trail of mysteries and unanswered question. I believe this is to set the stage, or possibly more accurately, reset the stage so as to create an almost blank canvass. Of course there will be elements that we have come to expect within the franchise, but for the most part we know we can be sure that the only surviving character that can serve as a reference point is David.

Ridley wanted to produce a trilogy from the start. The last thing he is going to do is reveal, or even hint at the end game at the start of a project, that would be like telling someone to go and watch The Usual Suspects because Kevin Spacey is Keyser Soze. Ridley has his head screwed on, which is what I take from him saying that he is ahead of the curve. I don’t think Ridley has lost his passion. I think he is just very aware that there are certain things you need to have in place in order to make something work, and if in the process that means pissing people off, then that is what will happen, and has been happening.

Batchpool

We will reveal nothing because he makes it up as he goes, so the reveal will must probably be weak. And if you mention the Usual Suspects, why do you people even consider the Souze is just some urban legend?

And for the diminishing returns, is he really that disconnected? You make one of the most gory and mean spirited film and you expect do have a big success at your hands? You don't care about human characters at all? You make the same choices as 3? Have a pretty idiotic script which at please seems like an Alien spoof? I for one don't give 2 cents about the Xenomorph, if it was not for Prometheus I would have not even bother to watch it. So maybe Sir Scott have guts and do a movie you would like to make. Why do you think a "movie" like The Room has fans?  

Well, I love Ridley's movies and I protect P&AC&RS from silly haters, but - I despise to Scott for this "cooked" verbiage. He destroyed himself.

I think the "action" aspect of Alien is cooked, but its legacy won't die. Alien Isolation is a great example. 

Well, the xenomorph is cooked if one keep coming to the cycle egg/facehugger/chestbuster/basic xenomorph. This has been done to death and is boring. I would be more interested in seing how Xenomorph evolve after a very long time. Do they become sentient ? Do they evolve in something much more powerful and dangerous ? Can a hive wipe out all life on a world ?

Also,I  would have prefered that Alien Covenant focused on the study of Engineer culture and technology by David ,or another party, and the exploration of the relation between Engineers and Xenomorph or morph like creatures.

Moreover Ridley could have developped some aspects of the Xenomorph removed from ALIEN such as eggmorphing or the ALIEN become sentient.

Imagine an ancient Xenomorph,thousands of years old, which is a god like figure for the humanoids of the planet 4 and awakened by David attack. How smart would such a being be ? How powerful ?

Bit busy now.... so this reply from other thread, will fit well with these other threads..

I think RS had a Original Vision, that would have covered the Xenomorph and then allowed us to move on past this and explore the Engineers, but FOX felt the Engineers was more interesting and the Xeno had been done to death and something New was needed.

Prometheus appeared to be setting us up to move away from the Xenomorph and Alien... but again it appeared once again FOX Panicked and Felt in Hindsight they should have covered the Xenomorph and so they changed the plans again.

Now that this never went down well....( Alien Covenant)

It appears RS seems to be suggesting in Hindsight indeed the Xenomorph is cooked, and something Fresh Needs doing, yet the Fans expected these NEW Alien Prequels to Lead to ALIEN.

They have Written themselves into another more Tighter Corner now..

The Problem was not the Xenomorph, it was how it was handled, the movie sadly tried to cover a lot of bases, tried to please Prometheus fans, but had desecrated a lot of it... it tried to please Alien Fans but some parts desecrated that... and it simply never had the Action or Queens and Ripleys to please the Fanboys.

I would think the sticking Problems for AC are..

*for some section of Fans, it did not cover the Engineers enough, and the Engineers shown failed to live up to the expectations of those beings we saw in Prometheus.

*some fans hoped for some of Shaws Questions to be Answered.

*Alien Fans, the New Design (Chest Burster) and Gestation/Growth Rate are a conflict to the Alien Lore...

*The Basis now that David Created the Xenomorph and the story is about him, is something that has split fans more so than the Space Jockey being Giant Humanoids (not so Giant)

*The movie Bigged it up to be a Horror and many fans expected a Alien like Vibe to it, but got rushed ALIEN like Scene near the end, and disappointing changes to Lore.

*The ALIENS Fans was expecting a more Ripley Character and Action, and Sadly the Neomorph attack Scenes and Daniels Shooting the Xenomorph failed to give anything near Aliens Action.

I dont think they can now just Drop the Xenomorph, and concentrate on David... i think this is not the case at all, they wont give us a ALIEN AWAKENING and not have any Xenomorph connections.. they cant have the ALIEN Prefix without it as Fans associate the Name with the Xenomorph and Ripley and not Engineers and David

But i dont think it does not have to be all about the Xenomorph.

STAR WARS: The Force Awakens was about the Force, and leading to a Awakening in the Force and so a Set up for a Sequel (The Last Jedi) that would cover the Jedi and Force more.

The Force Awakens, thus did not have as much about the Force or Jedis as the Phantom Menace...  And i think ALIEN AWAKENING will deal with the Xenomorph like SW: Force Awakens did with the Jedi/Force.

Leading up to another movie that will show us the Classic Xenomorph Eggs and Derelict Event...

Alien Awakening as far as AI/David and the Company Agenda will be more like the Rebuilding of the EMPIRE (Weyland) into the NEW ORDER (Weyland-Yutani) and reveal AI is running the Show, much like SNOKE is in the Star Wards new sequels.

The FORCE could be our Xenomorph Weapon and the Last Jedi could well be the Hiearchy of those Engineers, who will be out to stop who ever destroyed Paradise/Planet 4

But indeed...

If they explore the Xeno too much in 2-3 movies and then do some Alien/Aliens Sequels about the Xenomorphs... then Sadly they will become COOKED and a Joke like the Jason Movies had been and Freddy.

They tried to Reboot those... take a more serious take.. but that never worked..

And  think therefore even RE-BOOTING the Alien Franchise will not work.

They need to be careful over next 1-2 movies with handling the Xenomorph...

They then need to bridge out and explore alternatives to the Xenomorph in other Prequels... such as the Deacon or Fresco or other similar Neomorph like ideas..

i also think if they make a ALIEN 5 they would be better off as above giving us something Fresh.

he can keep the xeno in the movies but not be the centre piece as I do think its time to see more of the universe connected to the xeno. fans r being stubborn aswell here. a large portion just want a film as scary as the original about a monster hunting people but look at the world Prometheus opened up within the alien universe. he gave us these mighty looking engineers who r so far ahead of us that not only does the xeno knock us down the natural ladder in terms of top species but the engineers do aswell. some r wanting something fresh and yet they slammed Prometheus. seriously?? it was the most original film in the franchise since alien. RS could find a medium somewhere but It seems to me theres no deliberate path now after Prometheus got slammed. as he said himself 'they want aliens ill give them fkn aliens' yet when he does hes still getting slammed. I wouldn't be surprised if he does one more then washed his hands of the franchise, I would. Prometheus had issues but I take that film for what it is. a jump off, first in a trilogy movie to raise the questions for future instalments to answer yet hes turned away from what he wanted and AC doesn't seem like an alien movie or a Prometheus sequel to me.AC, imo, was just awful and I believe its because RS isn't sure where to go now. he had a path and ditched it to please the masses.

Blaming it on the beast? On the alien?  That the movie is titled after???  He's either lost his mind or he was lucky in the initial installment of this series and simply doesn't have the capacity to recreate that magic.  I find it humorous that the beast is claimed as being cooked, and we still don't know how it came to be, created by whom and why?  That is the movie that needs made.  Get rid of the AI.  The malfunctioning AI is more rediculous than the beast being real.   I mean Daniels witnessed rogue AI and didn't tell Muther to prohibit entry of either AI...umm. I am sure they probably have a backup to Walter in a locker somewhere?  Mission critical redundancy?  Right?  LOL.

It's called Alien not Xenomorph....If they called it Xenomorph:Covenant...or Xeno:Awakening...then yeah i can see the problem.

Going down the Freddy Krueger Jason Voorhees retread, recycle is sad.

Doomed to forever have the same old monster.

Was Alien:Resurrection about the Xeno's or the NEWBORN? Prolly should have called it Alien:Newborn.

Spearfish I agree with you... the alien was misused and blaming it for AC's lack of success is like blaming the victim.

MonsterZero If the xenomorph is not important why it is the background picture in this forum, why its image is everywhere. They need to re-evaluate why this franchise is called "Alien".

Prometheus needs to be built upon.  There are to many possibilities where some need to be chosen and anchored into reality.

I don't hate the Xeno, but we need answers to the questions being raised in the prequels.  My biggest problem with the Xeno in A:C is that it just wasn't scary.  AND I mean the Xeno wasn't even CLOSE to being scary.  If the Xeno was scary, then I'd support its use.  If it is not going to be scary, then explore the Engineers with all of the ideas of "Engineers created humans..." and such.  Those ideas are really interesting and can be scary as well.  Prometheus had that kind of fear in it.  The fear comes from not understanding what is happening.  That fear is similar to what the fear was like in the original Alien.

With Prometheus as proof that we can get an epic/intellectual/scary/visually stunning movie that greatly expands the Alien universe, I would have to say Ridley Scott is not a hack.  He was ahead of the curve with Prometheus and I greatly appreciate that Prometheus can be something more than just a stand alone movie because... Prometheus is a part of the Alien franchise.  Prometheus just needs to be developed so that it can concretely connect to what we know as the original 4.

I think we are all going to love Alien:Awakening after reading that Fox wants Ridley to do something really different.  Plus, I'm excited that the Alien: Awakening story isn't going to be based on a Xeno killing people for the whole movie.  We should get something very original and will hopefully expand the Alien universe into something that can be built upon in an Alien franchise reboot.

I don't think anyone can disagree with Ridley until the whole prequel trilogy is over.  These movies are all linked together.  It's not like Alien3 or Alien: Resurrection or even Aliens.  All those movies are dragging out Ripley's life.  I really don't know how else Ripley can be dragged into another movie and actually have it be good.  I think the Ripley clone in A:R was a good idea, but honestly, I think her story is over.  The original 4 could pretty much be stand alone movies.  The only thing connecting them is Ripley, yet cyrosleep allows the story to take place at almost any time.

So, pack to the topic.  The reason why I see the Xeno as being the problem with A:C is because it wasn't even close to being scary.  Ridley did screw up on that.  I remember in interviews that Ridley said, "Alien: Covenant is going to scare the $H!t out of people."  Guess what?... it didn't.  That interview is what really bothers me on Ridley's thinking.  If he thinks A:C is scary, then maybe he has lost it?  Prometheus was scary, so if Ridley lost it, it was between those two movies.  Yet, apparently Fox and the fans forced Ridley to put the Xeno in.  Now, apparently Fox is letting Ridley do what he wants as long as it's pushing the envelope.  I think Ridley can push the envelope since Prometheus did.  I'm excited about Alien: Awakening now.

 I Moon Girl "Prometheus needs to be built upon.  There are to many possibilities where some need to be chosen and anchored into reality."

I totally agree with that. But I am very worried about Ridley's latest statements. It sounds like he is dismissing more than just the xenomorph...

My concern is how offhanded Ridley Scott used the Xenomorph in Covenant. I enjoyed the film but that third act was a complete slap in the face to the Xenomorph legacy. Dull, lacklustre and rushed it did nothing to enhance the fear and dread of the beast. That whole hunt scene on the Covenant was totally impassionate 

IRaptus You just read my mind. I have a long list of things Ridley can blame AC's failure for. I don't think anybody in the audience said: "I am not going to see this movie because the xenomorph is in it" No, people got turned off because this was another movie with a bunch of disposable characters who don't know better, a lot of bad cgi, a franchise screwing twist in the form of rogue AI creating the xenomorph, a beast that was totally misused, out in the daylight, unscary, easily killed in the most anticlimatic, badly put together 3rd act I've ever seen.

@ IRaptus and Joylitt

The majority of issues which you have both seem to have and mentioned in one way or another, and there are plenty that you have’nt, are imo a result of cinematic snowcloning in the extreme. When a director is snowcloning their own tropes it can be like watching a comedian laughing at their own jokes. Star Wars: The Force Awakens was able to pull it off because it was an upfront reboot of the franchise and the various trope nods acted to signify a handing over of the torch to a new cast.  I think Fox had the same idea by using the xeno. In their haste to chase a profit, it would appear that they have jumped head first into a barrel of tits to come out sucking their thumbs.

The original Alien was completely unique and void of any references to snowclone and this is where I think Ridley is now making a point. I think it also proves how much control Ridley has not had in AC.

Honestly they would have been better off sticking to the Neomorphs in Covenant. The Neomorph scenes were very effective because their growth, speed and ferocity were out of synch to the Xenomorph pacing we are used to. It was a game-changer like 28 Days Later when Danny Boyle brought in Zombies that could run for the first instead of the slow dawdle pace you expected. Put you on the backfoot.

There shouldn't have been any hint of the Xenomorph until David slips the facehugger embryos into cryo at the end as David's Ace up the sleeve for the next film. It showed David had his endgame product without further cooking the beast in a Xeno hunt scene with no emotion or energy

joylitt said, "I totally agree with that. But I am very worried about Ridley's latest statements. It sounds like he is dismissing more than just the xenomorph..."

The problem with this source is it only gives Ridley Scott around 40 seconds to talk.  To really understand what Ridley is thinking for a new movie and what he thinks of Alien: Covenant, we would have to at least carve out an hour for him to really talk.  Plus, everybody is going to want to ask questions too.  The Alien prequels are really deep stories and it's all because of Prometheus.  I wish we had video of a more in depth conversation with Ridley Scott.  Without that, I can't complain about his direction.  I'm just excited that it's not going to be like the original 4.  The prequels NEED to be different then those.

We should just keep our ears and our internet researches ready for more comments by Ridley Scott.

All I know is that Fox wants something competely original and is giving the reins to Ridley Scott.  With that power, Scott has chosen to put the Xeno off to the side of the main story.  We also know that this is going to be the final prequel in Scott's hands as of now.  Is there anything else that I'm missing?  What else can we assume that Alien: Awakening is going to be from Ridley Scott's comments?

I Moon Girl We put too much faith on Ridley. He needs to find a screenplay that impresses him. He is very reactionary and his role as a businessman is very prominent as of late. If AC would have been a success he would not be talking about bringing back the engineer. I hope Fox conducts a market research on the fanbase and the general audience and submits its findings to Ridley. He really needs to understand the real reasons why AC was so disappointing.

@joylitt

I don't read much on what Ridley Scott says about his movies or where the direction that the Alien movies will go.  The only time I read stuff like that is on this website, like in this thread, or on the front page news. So...correct if I'm wrong here...

"He is very reactionary and his role as a businessman is very prominent as of late.  If AC would have been a success he would not be talking about bringing back the engineer."

Isn't Ridley's boss Fox?  Wasn't it Fox that said that the Alien franchise needed to have the Xeno in it?  Isn't that why the Xeno was forced into Alien: Covenant?  That's probably why there wasn't a good reaction to the Xeno.

"I hope Fox conducts a market research on the fanbase and the general audience and submits its findings to Ridley."

This could've been the problem for Alien: Covenant.  The fanbase wanted the Xeno after Prometheus.  So, Fox is to Ridley, "Use the Xeno."  Ridley's like, "Ok bosses!"  Ridley started this whole prequel idea to my knowledge, so to just abandon the whole prequel that he started after he was told that he had to change the direction that Prometheus set up apparently just didn't seem right to Ridley.  I can see where he's coming from.  He's been wanting to make the prequels since 1979.  This is his chance, and probably his last chance before he retires, and I can understand on why he would bend his ideas to Fox's desires for the prequels he started.

Really, the prequels are Ridley's idea, but Fox is the one that owns the rights to the Alien franchise and funds the movies.  How could anything get done without going through Fox first?

On my person opinion, I LOVED Prometheus.  It wasn't a perfect movie, but it was fantastic.  I think Ridley really had a good product that just needed a little more thought into the characters.  From what it sounds like with what I've read on this website regarding Fox's stance and now, according to this thread, Ridley's intentions are most likely heading back ON PATH to what Prometheus started.  

"We put too much faith on Ridley."

I don't think we would have the prequels without Ridley.  Fox knew of Ridley's intentions way back around 1979, so Fox might have eventually set out to make prequels.  The point I'm getting at here is that Ridley's making the movie, whether we like it or not.  Plus, apparently Fox is giving the green light for Ridley to do almost whatever he wants.  So, I'm thinking Ridley is just going to go with what he has been scheming over for maybe 30 years and develop that into Alien: Awakening.

From what it sounds with Fox's previous stances, it's not Ridley that's the problem, it's Fox.

I hope there is no market research on the fan base and, instead, Ridley analyzes what he thinks is good and makes THAT into a movie.  Then, when he gets the general ideas, all he needs to do is find some good writers.

"He needs to find a screenplay that impresses him."

He should have that power from Fox now after reading their recent statements and I think that's what he's going to do this time around.  Yet, maybe your right and I'm putting to much faith in Ridley.

Alien: Awakening is his LAST SHOT at making an Alien movie anytime soon.  I think he knows this and is taking this movie more seriously than any of the Alien movies just because of the burden of expectations.  He's almost been given free rein to do what he wants from Fox.  I'm not worried about Alien: Awakening yet.  It's to early to tell.  I do like what I'm hearing from Fox and from what Ridley is saying according to this thread.