IMDB editors not thankful for "Alien Covenant" on this Thanksgiving

I wasn't dissatisfied with Alien: Covenant, yet I was left disappointed.  Long story short here, but, as a movie as a whole, Alien: Covenant wasn't bad.  It just didn't deliver where it should have, which would be what the whole Alien franchise is about.  AKA.... The Xeno and fear.  I wasn't upset with the story though.  OH yea!  The switch was badly done.  Pathetic really.  The novel's ending was by far superior to what was released in the theater.  

I do 100% agree that Bladerunner 2049 should be on that list.  Fabulous movie!  I mean it was just top notch, grade A material.  I am in love with that movie.  I saw it in theaters and I'm telling you, "That movie really had some great ideas."  One, in particular, was very inspirational to me and it was so well done in the movie.  The idea being the exploration of AI and love and the movie just played with your mind on that topic and really makes you think about our actually technology and what is possible.  It's a really amazing theme to explore and Bladerunner nailed it!  100%!  Bladerunner 2049 was just a fantastic movie overall and delivered much better than Alien: Covenant.

A part of the problem with Alien: Covenant is that, even though I avoided almost all spoilers, I still had expectations and at least some where not met, as I explained above.  With Bladerunner 2049, I had no clue what to expect.  A part of that was because Bladerunner 2049 was a sequel from nowhere!  I avoided spoilers and I had no clue how it would tie into the original.  I would have to say that Bladerunner 2049 was the best sequel that I can remember seeing that took place many years after the original.  Star Wars: Rogue One would have to come in 2nd on that one.  I have my reasons for that.  Bladerunner 2049 was a grand slam!!!!!

Get Out was a great movie, yet it doesn't compare to Bladerunner 2049!  Of course, it is a completely different type of movie and it was strange in its own category as well.  So, it is definitely rememberable for that.  I could see why it's on the list... kind of...

Baby Driver was good, sure.  Wonder Woman, I guess.  Logan..., well, I'm tired of the X-men and was never really a fan.  The Big Sick was alright and funny, okay, fine...  I hate Lip Sync Battle.

The other shows or movies I haven't seen.

NOW... what should be on that list is the movie IT.  Fabulous movie.  Hard to compare to the ones that I raved about above because it is so different, but, really, I loved that movie.  I would have to say you need to see it in theaters to really respect it though, but we'll see when it comes out on DVD.  I'm definitely going to see IT: Chapter 2 in theaters.  I think it's going to be worth it.

So, back to the thread.  I can understand why Alien: Covenant is not on the list, yet, if it was, I may understand, but I'm not 100% certain though.  If Prometheus came out in 2017, than I would imagine that Prometheus would be on the list.  It was a fabulous movie, yet it had its share of flaws.  Still, I'm glad it was made.  I've watched Prometheus many times because it has a high replay value to me.  Once you know the story, you can just admire the beautiful imagery and science fiction.  Alien: Covenant is kind of lacking in science fiction in a way compared to other Alien movies.  I guess they got all the science in at the beginning by confusing everyone with what a neutrino burst is.

Still, I am excited to see what Alien: Awakening is going to bring with the facts about Fox and Ridley Scott.  

I am pretty sure "Prometheus" would have made the list. I don't understand how a movie released 5 years before can be so superior on the visual department, and I am not just referring to the special effects: I am also talking about cinematography (color palette) and production design. And I agree about "It", someone should have mentioned that movie. But it is also weird they did not mention "Dunkirk".

But wait a minute, who are the Imdb stuff to care about their opinion? Sure they run a movie related site, but the main shtick of the site is that people vote and review movies.

red0guy Everyone has a voice now in this age. We like to pretend our opinions matter. To FOX, our money seems to be our opinion. 

dk well said!

dk

If so, I'll tell that this year I was surprised by the robot porn in Covenant and for the first time a movie making me hate the geek (be making him a poser) and love the jock in Stranger Things s2. But I'm not grateful for either thing.

And if Fox wants my money, fine. Here is what I brought from them this year: The Drop (on BR), Prometheus (day one on 4k) and the Martian (on 4k). I've paid 2 tickets (approx 4 dollars each, as I am from eastern Europe) for Covenant but that is all I'll give Fo for their movie.

red0guy For this franchise, I will sit and wait. I enjoyed the engagement on the forum leading up to both movies way more than the movies themselves.

Maybe the character of Daniels was unrelatable, but casting Waterston as Daniels was worst. She was a key character but she could not make the viewer care for her fate. I don't mean Waterston can't act, she was just not right for the role. And it is not the first time Ridley Scott had the wrong choice for an actor/actress.

Just imagine Waterston as Elizabeth Shaw in Prometheus if you can.

I actually thought Waterson did an outstanding job. She wasn't allowed to shine. I am coming at this from never seeing her in another movie, so AC is my baseline with her. That said, Waterson couldn't possibly act wishy washy enough to play Shaw.

The problem is the directing. These actors and actresses were specifically instructed to perform either as dumb, whiny or pompous. As opposed to the first three Alien installments, both in Prometheus and Covenant there is a deliberate intention of not making the performances feel authentic. They are supposed to be these B-movie stereotypes. I have no idea why Ridley Scott would like to perpetuate these antics and it is something he needs to drop as soon as possible. I long so much to see a well grounded, gritty, relatable, real character in the franchise for a change.

Maybe in Prometheus they were requested to perform as dumb,  whiny or pompous, nevertheless Rapace shone in that film. She was a better match for Fassbender. Waterston was from another movie, she did not show any fierce note even when fighting the xeno (and she killed two of them). I always watch those scenes in disbelief. And I doubt Ridley Scott asked her to play whinny, she was just not suitable for the role. She made Daniels forgetable. I mean people never get infuriated if Daniels will not appear in the next film. Her Daniels cannot bring people to the theaters.

And this was a big issue with Covenant. The film was not balanced. There was no counterpart for Fassbender.  Waterston played well but was not suitable for the role. Like I said previously all I can feel about that Daniels is what Oram told her: OK Danny, I'll put it in the log. You are dismissed. 

daliens

Well the whole idea was that Foxbender to be the counter to FoxBender. So please have courage and make the next one an all FoxBender flick, to save money of course.

And by the way, who was Waterston in Logan Lucky, the former wife or the other one?

joylitt

That Imdb grateful letters do not mean anything more that a personal taste or opinion, like mine below:

I'm grateful for Alien Covenant because it is more than a sci fi shot in space, more than an alien movie. Thank you Ridley Scott and John Logan and all the cast and crew for daring to give us the lonely perfection of an android dreams. Do not wait too long until the next one, and please ignore us, the ungrateful fans, and start shooting the next one as soon as possible. 

daliens I understand. These are just opinions, and yours is very valid and heartfelt. I personally hope the new installment will be more faithful in spirit to the Alien universe.

red0guy

She has to play with Fassbender. Two Fassbenders actually. But I feel nothing from Waterston. No birds, no animals, nothing.

joylitt

As long as we don't reduce the alien universe to the xenomorph and recently the engineers only, I am positive Ridley Scott will be faithful. He loves this alien universe and tries to explore it further. Aliens are there and can strike when we less expect. Disney will give us aliens, no doubt abut that.

I just want Ridley to continue what he started. 

I think the problems here are the Alien Franchise has a rather limited Fanbase compared to many other flicks, the majority of fans would be Alien Fans, the General Public would maybe just have bad memories of the AVP Movies and also Totally not get Prometheus.

I think as a movie Alien Covenant attempted to please those who liked Prometheus, those who liked Alien and those who liked Aliens  but the movie simply could not deliver enough to please all of them, it only provided a little to each...

Also it appeared again the Characters mainly are only used to drive the Plot and no real Depth was invested once they David had Turned up, prior to that it worked well.  There was some really poor Marketing that built peoples hopes up too much, i also think the Plot well execution again was not great and the Movie Certainly Suffered from needing a extra 30 mins and $30M Budget

AC has a lot of problems so I only think that it is fair. Once David showed up it started to go to shit. It is not that Fassbender did a bad job but the human characters were reduced to pieces in the background and were not well written.

I Moon Girl: For fear to work you got to relate to the characters and what they go through but since most were without clear character traits then there were no one to root for. The switch at the end was probably surprising for Daniels but not for the audience so that scene is a 50% for me. Prometheus didn't have good characters either except for Janek and David.

Shaw was annoying and Daniels was just anonymous.

"Just imagine Waterston as Elizabeth Shaw in Prometheus if you can."

That character would probably still have been crap since she was written that way.

"They are supposed to be these B-movie stereotypes. I have no idea why Ridley Scott would like to perpetuate these antics and it is something he needs to drop as soon as possible. I long so much to see a well grounded, gritty, relatable, real character in the franchise for a change."

I am not sure what the problem is but there is some bad job that has been done this far. They got to step that up a lot as far as the characters are concerned for the next movie. If they are able to do that it will be so much better. Please don't make the next movie about androids, F that.

"nevertheless Rapace shone in that film."

I am not sure if we saw the same movie, Shaw was annoying and deserved to die even though she was better in the end of the movie. At least Daniels felt more like a real human and I didn't get annoyed by her but yes she could have been a lot better but so did most of the characters (about 95% of them).

"She made Daniels forgetable."

That goes for most characters but I rather think that it was a problem of really poor character writing in both AC and Prometheus.

"The film was not balanced. There was no counterpart for Fassbender."

Yeah indeed but that was only because Scott only cared about the damn droids.

"Well the whole idea was that Foxbender to be the counter to FoxBender."

Yeah and that was why the movie to a huge extent was bad. If you have very few memorable human characters and a focus on AI then that makes a bad movie.

"So please have courage and make the next one an all FoxBender flick, to save money of course."

Ha ha ha! I sense a lot of sarcasm in that comment. ;)

No way that I would watch a movie like that.

"Thank you Ridley Scott and John Logan and all the cast and crew for daring to give us the lonely perfection of an android dreams."

If you want less people to give a damn about the alien movies then sure they can continue with where they are now. The story about artificial intelligence is just boring.

"I personally hope the new installment will be more faithful in spirit to the Alien universe."

If that means getting human characters that we care for then yeah. Alien 1-3 managed to get this right but the prequels haven't this far. Hopefully this don't include AR and AVP. :D

"He loves this alien universe and tries to explore it further."

He cares for the AI crap which I am really tired of.

"I think as a movie Alien Covenant attempted to please those who liked Prometheus, those who liked Alien and those who liked Aliens but the movie simply could not deliver enough to please all of them, it only provided a little to each..."

The Prometheus part to me seems to be about David and a bit about the Engineers and Shaw. That part was kind of boring and I think that it was bad that they got rid of the Engineers. David was mad, Shaw was dead (which was good), and the Engineers were sadly bombed out of the picture. Aliens to me is action and there was too little of it at least after David got there then it became about David and Walter talking, which to me was a mixed scene since I liked to see their differences in views but the scene was too slow and made me feel tired towards the end of that.

"Also it appeared again the Characters mainly are only used to drive the Plot and no real Depth was invested once they David had Turned up, prior to that it worked well."

Um at least better since the human characters still lacked in how they were written but yeah it got worse once it became the AI show (second part I believe, after David arrives). What made it worse is that they had some clips (crew messages, check out Youtube) which made the characters a bit more interesting, they should have had these in the movie. The way that it became was not very good, they got to make that part a lot better in the next movie if the Alien prequels shall not be remembered as total failures by many.

The biggest problem I have with Shaw is that she was stupid enough to sew David's head back on his body.  David should have never been in Alien: Covenant.  Of course, if we were going by logic, Shaw would have never left for the Engineers' planet and would've suffocated on LV-223.  These facts all tie back to the movie Alien: Covenant because that is when it all happened.  Other than that, I actually like Shaw.  She says a few things and in a way that I don't like, but I guess it is hard to please everyone.  It's kind of like these prequels are based on some kind of destiny that the main characters have. 

In the original 4, the characters were just people (plus a clone in A:R) who got thrown into the mix with a Xenomorph or more by chance and no one has a clue how to deal with this 'thing'.  Of course, Ripley gains some  knowledge as the original 4 continue into the next one of the series.

Maybe that is why there aren't very good character developments.  The main characters are getting lucky and that's how they end up surviving.  If they weren't lucky, then it would involve a focus on the character and their struggles to survive.  Instead, something happens and then everyone is okay.  Of course, there are other ways to develop characters, yet, in an Alien movie, the movie-goers shouldn't have to listen to large amounts of dialogue.  There should be scary, suspenseful situations which bring out who the character or characters are because they have to react to the problem.

One thing about the original Alien is that it starts where everyone is having a good time and enjoying each others presence.  Then, as the movie continues, that is contrasted with the fear everyone has because of the alien.  This fear leads to their instinctual actions in survival.  That is how we typically learn of characters in an Alien franchise. 

Plus, it seemed Prometheus and Alien: Covenant had a large number of characters, so it would be hard to give everyone a background story.

Concerning Daniels and Tennessee's fight with the Xeno, it was just to short, to easy for them, and it was a rehashed, Xeno death scene like other Xeno deaths which end up with the Xeno being ejected out into space.  I'm not complaining about it, but I do think it was to quick to really good character development.

On the prequels again...  It's almost like a god-like entity is being projected in these prequel movies.  Like something is in charge of who survives, kind of like God of the Christian faith.  There is a whole underlying agenda in the prequels to explore where the human race came from... Engineers or evolution?  This brings into question about the existence of God as well.  Well, if we look at the prequels, I would say God exists.  This is especially obvious in Prometheus.  Yet, if God exists, why would David survive and everyone die?  Ah, a very similar question that many people ask today concerning God.  Alien: Awakening is going to have to drive home these God and creation themes to really solidify this the existence of God in the Alien universe, but as of now, I think God is in play in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.  We just don't know God's agenda.  Hopefully we'll get to 'see' his great vision manifested into Alien: Awakening.  We still need some more proof so we don't have to label certain events as coincidences.

This is an interesting claim because Peter Weyland believes so firmly that someone or something created us.  Yet, if the answer was God, then it could also mean that humans were a creation from evolution as well.  Truth be told, if God did created us, we might never know until we're dead.  Still, Weyland wants to know and the Engineers could just be, in a sense, a scapegoat for the human desire to know if God is actually real or not from proof.

WHAT IF: Alien:Covenant was Alien3.  It was Ripley instead of Daniels. Same plot ...same script....Hicks playing the Tennessee role. Ripley had married Branson not Hicks...Maybe add a scene where they show Newt in hypersleep.....but that's it! Have it play out like AC.

Ripley, Hicks, Newt wanting to start life fresh on Origae6.

I think this Alien3/AC would work great and a set up a massive ciffhanger for Alien4.

So.... Alien3,  or a Ripley Alien3:Covenant??