The Queen of Venus

I believe the evolved Daniels would not be as empathetic to Tennessee as she had been in the past.

Thank you V I N E T I C U M.

XD (it is always a pleasure)Thanks Ingeniero

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Well its interesting for sure, but it kind of makes you wonder if those behind the Plots really had it all thought out in any coherent way.

First to Tackle the Eggs...

It appears from the clues given from Alien Covenant that David had to do a lot of Cross Hybridization to obtain close to his Objective, it appears he came very close to a Organism, but it was not quite there... (Female Engineer Reproductive System) and so it was only with Dr Shaws Reproductive System we obtained those Xenomorph Eggs.

The Process was thus LONG and so to replicate the Eggs with Daniels, we have to consider first... (the easy answer).

*Did a Face Hugger infect Elisabeth Shaw and was removed and this Organism leads to the Eggs?

If so then indeed one of those Face Huggers with Daniels would lead to more Eggs. Thus a Queen is born from her.  HOWEVER... if not and if the Eggs came from Dr Shaws Reproductive System (which is what i think the clues hint to). Then how would David be able to replicate this with TWO Face Huggers?

Surely the Eggs are not a case of Black-Goo + Dr Shaws Eggs, because otherwise David had wasted a lot of time with other experiments... I think David had experimented and Cross Bred by using the Black Goo (because i feel it can be used as a Tool to create Hybrids from what ever is exposed to it).

So i would say the way David would obtain Eggs from Daniels has to be either.

*He somehow has tools on the Covenant where he can Genetically Splice Face Hugger DNA with Daniels Egg Cells.

*Or he has or gets some Black Goo to use to Genetically Splice Face Hugger DNA because i think this is what the Black Goo, well Sacrificial Goo at least can do, its a Genetic Splicing Tool... so if a Face Hugger DNA is broken down by this substance and the resulting Genetic Soup is then Spliced with Human Egg Cells then indeed a Xenomorph Egg could be what we get.

I feel Black Goo + Daniels Egg Cells would produce something similar to the Deacon instead, i do wonder if Daniels is exposed to the Black Goo so she becomes a Hybrid Deacon/Human then her Egg Cells could be used as Eggs or she produces Xenomorph Eggs...

But i am still drawn to the Process shown in Alien Covenant via the clues and extras, is the Process was a long one that required mixing of many Organisms to achieve the Final Results.

The Bio-Mechanical Atheistic.. i am still wondering if Non-Organic Matter has to come into the Equation?  And so i still think either a Synthetic Construct (Part Organic/Part Synthetic) will play a role, or the Engineers have something that they can use on Davids Creations or play a role in how the Mechanical Aesthetic comes into play.

Regarding Tennessee, i think they have written themselves into a corner with AC, the ending means that Daniels would not be party to Davids plans, he would have to get rid of her... or use her for his experiments.

I think if Tennessee awakens and Walter (David) is to continue his Charade, and fool Tennessee i feel that he would ask where Daniels is, and Walter (David) would have to come up with a excuse because he cant allow her to tell him what she knows.. because then David would have to get rid of them both. I feel if David makes some excuse up... oh Daniels did not make it etc.. i think Tennessee  would have some suspicions unless he has a really LOW IQ lol

We cant rule out any of this though, as it would be interesting if Tennessee says how is Daniels, and then David takes him to a Room and we see Daniels as a Hybrid, or she is being used for Reproductive Purposes.... and Tennessee then sees the Penny has Dropped, he would be in Shock....  David would say like  "i would like you to meet My Queen"

I was actually thinking of this as a Flash Back for my Covenant Sequel, i am currently in the process of working out how to tackle certain Plot Elements.... ONE key one is that Tennessee would be framed as being a Saboteur to the rest of the Colonist, after David Charades as Walter.  And the other is indeed Daniels is to be the Queen so to speak.... but its does David introduce Tennessee to what he has done to Daniels, on the Ship or after David has started to set up the Colony but prior to awakening up the other Colonist

My Alien Covenant Sequels, do have it all set out as far as where David goes, what happens to the Survivors of Covenant, how the Engineers fit in and also how the Xenomorph gets it Bio-Mechanics

BigDave very beautiful .
a hybrid queen daniels that would generate eggs would give a deeper sense to Shaw's death as a hypothetical queen, but would also make sense to David as a creator who may be wrong.
Tennessee good material to work on, it would be wrong to kill him without letting David know in his eyes.daniels generates hidden eggs, produces 2000 eggs while the colony is built, he brings to eat her to make her feel good, the eggs produced in the closet of the ship.
when everyone is asleep, the black man comes to see you, David unleashes the facehuggers as done for Lope,his beasts will be freed to conquer the galaxy.

Tennessee does not know what the eggs contain ;)

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

I think its left a bit open to how David Creates Thousands of Eggs, on one hand we had the Covenant and its thousands of Colonist and Embryos so if those are all Human then we looking at about 3000 or so Hosts.

But then what kind of movie would it be if David uses those Colonist to Turn into Eggs, we have to ask how does David accomplish this with just TWO Face Huggers, unless the Xenomorph is shown to Egg Morph the Colonist.   Ridley Scott claims the focus wont be much on the Xenomorph and so a Xenomorphs Egg Morphing Colonist in Mass is maybe not on the cards.

I do think the Colonist Numbers are maybe a Plot Device to hint at how Davids Creations could end up in Thousands, but its a case of is this to be the case.

Because the Advent Viral we also have David suggesting all he needs is his Queen, which means David is looking for a way to produce some kind of Queen/Host to Produce Multiple Eggs.   So it would be interesting to see if we will see Daniels used to obtain Eggs, or Colonist or a combination.

I think when looking at the process we need to look at the Black Goo as in Prometheus as this was something a bit more simple.

*We already saw that a infected Male, can Pass the Xeno-Parastite/Pathogen to a Female and cause her to gestate a Trilobite Face Hugger, which means there is one of 3 ways this happened.

1) Infected Holloway Sperm Fertilizes Shaws ineffective Egg Cells.

2) The Parasitic Pathogen is Worm-like Organism that is passed via Sex like a Sexually Transmitted Disease and the Parasite actually Sperm Fertilizes Shaws ineffective Egg Cells.

3) As above but instead of fertilizing Dr Shaws Egg Cells, the Parasite just Gestates inside the Womb and the Womb is fooled to think it is a Fetus.

With option 2/3 there would be NO need for a Male, a simply passing of the Black Goo into the Females Reproductive System would do the trick...   The Question is the infection of Dr Shaw via Infected Sperm, because if it is then we can ponder what a actual Egg cell would become if infected with the Black Goo and so not via infected Sperm, would it make a Egg become a Mutated Xeno-Pathogen Egg?

If Dr Shaws infection was not due to Sperm, but option 2/3 then Black Goo infecting the Reproductive Organs should just yield Trilobites alone.

The next stage of any INFECTION regarding Procreating the Pathogen would be a WHAT if a Female got infected with the Black Goo and became a Mutant Hybrid, like the effects on Fifield, but more Xenomorph (as earlier concepts had) thus a Deacon/Human Hybrid, then we can wonder what becomes of a Hybrids Reproductive System, to they automatically Gestate Trilobite type Organisms, or do they start to Produce Eggs that are passed through her Womb to the outside World... i.e Egg Laying.

These are all interesting things to ponder, and we have to wonder what route Daniels or another Female takes as far as if David gets his Queen from some process.

The other option is the more Lazy One,  which is infected Female = Queen Chest Buster, but this would be just too close to Cameron's Aliens.

Prior to any news with Alien Covenant, i had some information from a supposed Source regarding Paglen/Greens Prometheus 2, back in February 2015, based of a Draft from October 2014 and Concept works November 2014.

They claimed the Movie would have TWO Monsters, both different yet both similar to the Xenomorph DNA.   But the clues regarding Dr Shaws fate was interesting.

They claimed Dr Shaw plays a Small, but Pivotal Role,  David wishes to Create and play God, and in order to Re-Create It (Xenomorph/Deacon) all you need was Knowledge and Tools and David has both.  And that David Creates One of the Monsters in the movie (when they say TWO Monsters they mean TWO kinds).  They said Dr Shaw is incapacitated for the most part, that Mankind/Humans play a bigger role in the Xenomorph than the Engineers.   They said that concepts have a Human (they are vague) connected to a Bio-Mechanical Looking Device, like some of HR Gigers works, and its like the Robot Girl from Superman 3 but with a Giger Atheistic Twist.

They added that in context to Paradise Lost (Poem), without Sin (i assume Satans Daughter) there would be NO Xenomorph.  Now Satans Daughter is a Hybrid Human/Serpent who is incapacitated as she is constantly in Labor giving birth to the Serpentine Hounds of Hell.

All very interesting but to be taken with a grain of Salt...

But fast forwards to after Alien Covenant and the clues and looking at various concept works, it appears indeed the Source was basically describing what potential had been done with Dr Shaw.

I wonder if David would continue to do the same with Daniels?

Do you think Daniels could end up being the actual queen from Alien 2? Surviving the Derelict crash.

I don't understand why use the title "Queen of Venus" in a David movie, only thing which makes in a fall of David movie is the queen of Barsheeba.

And very realistically:

1. I don't think you will every see woman being experimenting upon on screen, as you did not see them dying. To respect O'Bannon.

2. Killing central categories before the last movie in a trilogy is stupid and will probably not happen.

Critters5

Ridley hates that queen, so no, Daniels will never become that thing.

red0guy I agree that they would likely not show female experimentation which is why especially with Disney these movies never have the effect which they have the potential for. 

Critters5

It's not Disney, it's to respect O'Bannon (as he was a feminist way before it made money), as Ridley said with Rosenthal.  In all Aliens, how many female chestbursters did you have? 2 (one in Aliens, one in Res.) and 1/2 (depending which Alien 3 you watch)?

Ps. in my previous comment categories should be replaced by characters. 

I think with Disney we cant expect anything more than Alien Covenant showed with Dr Shaw's Body, maybe not even that.

Ridley Scott as far as i am aware has never claimed he hates the Queen, he has actually said it makes sense and it was a good Monster, but its not the idea he would have carried forwards.  So he had a different idea than the way Camerons Queen and Hive and Bugs went.

He could have been playing Face though... so his real feelings may be different, i would have thought Ridley Scott would not take a Queen route, but then Alien Covenant has proposed this..  But i think Ridley Scotts idea would certainly not be that David using Daniels or anyone else will lead to a Queen Xenomorph as we see in ALIENS

I think RS will take us down either the Evolved Daniels into something else route, or have it where at least we see her Egg Cells being Harvested for Davids Experiments.  The Question is which?

I think enough clues had been shown that David had used Dr Shaw's Reproductive Organs to Perfect his Creation,  and the extras has hinted that David wanted to Evolve Dr Shaw but she refused.   So maybe we cant rule out some kind of Daniels Hybrid?

Dane Hallet had made some varied concepts for Dr Shaw, and i would not be surprised if we see a Hybrid that would be like a cross between SIL from Species mixed with say a Neomorph.

Starting to sound like Alien Resurrection...

Queen of venus is a title to deepen in my opinion the next identity of Daniels , A Queen evolved by David while everyone is sleeping in cryostasis , a project in dance since the days of Shaw alive, will the right opportunity for him?
Queen of venus is also a retro flm in which this masked queen was prey to men deceiving and killing them in revenge.
Venus Known probably already in prehistory, Venus was then observed by all ancient cultures, such as the Babylonians who called it Ištar, in honor of the goddess of love, eroticism and war. Egyptians, Greeks, Mayans and Romans distinguished the morning and evening apparitions in two distinct bodies, calling it morning star or evening star, and for this called Lucifer when it appeared before dawn, and Vespero when it appeared to the west to the fall of the Sun. Because of its splendor, in many cultures, including the Mayan one, Venus represented two twin deities, in which Quetzalcoatl in the Morning Star and Xolotl in the Evening Star respectively were identified.
A hybrid Daniels who finished her reproductive task could come out of her hiding place once colonized with Protomorphs. the Survivors can admire the queen at the top of the conquest of civilization.
The 2 facehuggers of David I imagine that it are his Wolves, maybe you can understand their place in history the next chapter.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

Indeed V I N E T I C U M interesting connections...  a lot of time Venus is associated with the Goddess of Love and Fertility and we can see David maybe felt she would give him love, as he interpreted her feelings wrong, and then he indeed used her Fertility so to speak to create his Perfection.....

With Dr Shaw lacking Fertility, David via is perverted view of Love, has in her death rewarded her with Fertility.  A interesting thing is some of Matt Hattons concept works on Dr Shaw had portrayed her like the Statue of Venus, with no Arms and in some concepts No Legs/Deformed Legs.  So she had basically became  incapacitated so that David could use her just as a Birthing Machine for Harvesting her Reproductive Cells for his Experiments.

I think we can assume safely David may wish to carry out what he had done to Dr Shaw on Daniels or even what he may have further wished to have done with Daniels.  The other thing of interest is we have to assume his Xenomorph is on his Agenda, which i think he wishes to make some more tweaks and if Dr Shaw was Pivotal to its creation he certainly could need Daniels or any other Female to continue his Legacy.

@Critters5

To a extent indeed, i would assume if David wanted to Create some form of Life with the Black Goo, then if he wished to use Dr Shaw from Day One, then the simple route would be to infect her Womb with the Pathogen, the results would really depends on HOW exactly she became Pregnant with the Trilobite if the only way this happened was via infected Sperm, then David would need a Sperm Donor, we have to wonder is Engineer Sperm Compatible?  If the only way to a Trilobite was infected Sperm, then we have to ask what does the Pathogen do directly with Egg Cells.

But i appears Davids Creation took multiple experiments and hybridization,  and i would think if David had intended to only Replicate the DEACON his task would have been much more simple... Unless.  The Deacon required Infected Sperm, and Engineers is not compatible (or they are infertile) which then we have to wonder what KIND of Organism comes from a Black Goo + Female Egg Cell.

BigDave

That is imagery straight of Bone Tomahawk... another great thing I'll never rewatch... and not original at all.

Which part is comparable to Bone Tomahawk?

Just had a quick look at the Plot, you mean the Pregnant Females? with all their limbs amputated.

I think  David indeed would have incapacitated Dr Shaw and Female Engineers, but i dont see any proof of them being amputated, just what some of Hattons work had her as, which was like the Venus Statue. It would be interested to see how David deals with Daniels as in some of Hattons other concepts, he has Dr Shaw with her cut open and some of her organs hanging out, but she is partially buried like under ground as if he has drugged her then buried her and dug up only the area of her head and torso so she is incapacitated.

The source i had from Feb 2015 had hinted Dr Shaw was maybe incapacitated by being fused with some Bio-Mechanical Machine/Device.

ugh there was just so much potential in both films. BigDave, why does it always seem with Ridley that the concept art/ideas are better than what they used or didn't cut? 

“Tennessee could be the new protagonist of the story, maybe meeting an evolved Daniels face to face.”

Maybe if they develop his character, right now he is a joking guy in a hat. It is not that I get mad when I see his character but we were never told anything about him in the movie. We got a clip on the www when he said something about what he wanted to achieve there and so on but he was just a blank slate in the movie, like most of the characters. Nah I think that they need to get someone that knows how to write interesting characters because they failed with that in both AC and Prometheus.

Hopefully Disney will not make a family friendly version of it, that wold suck. Let the queen be something that will show up later, I think that it is too early for it now.

Critters5: I really hope that it will be better than Alien Resurrection. It must be better than it and Alien Covenant because they are not very good but then with the route of artificial intelligence it might hit AR quality if they make it close to Covenant (story- and character wise).

"why does it always seem with Ridley that the concept art/ideas are better than what they used or didn't cut? "

I think thats a Question for those who worked on the Projects lol, Ridley Scott and who ever from FOX was closely attached would have had the Final Say in all of this,  i will say that the Hammerpedes were Interesting, the Trilobite too, and from Alien Covenant the Neomorph was interesting, i just feel its a shame we never got a Higher Budget to portray them as the latter Concept Renders which the Neomorph was based off was very interesting.   And much better than some of the earlier concepts that we have seen released.

so sometimes they do get it right.

I feel the like the extensive experimental scenes should have been shown on Shaw rather than Daniels. Viewers seem to love Shaw but Daniels was totally forgettable which is why there will be little to no emotional response to Daniels experimentation. 

I believe very much that the tennessee is strong as a character, he is the best friend of Branson this resonates as an echo of history, depicting an icon of justice on future fiction, I would like it to be so in the next chapter. Daniels was a character hurt by pain, a person who has suffered a gap, but who made him stronger in front of adversity, if she would be alive in the next chapter as a captain or in the role of Hybrid Queen, I think we both have characters, would be exceptional for a Fan, a character like that evolve from hero to villain. David and his transmission to Wayland would have reason to believe that he brought Daniels to the lake and showed him the colony created by him and for it he served a leader, asking him to become his Queen, while he organized the conquest for the Engineers.

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

i hope that Daniels' death is painfull as hell and maybe wel see some good acting. it only my opinion but Daniels is the weakest lead character in the franchise. id like to see Tennessee survive as he offered something onscreen. his character had some interest but Daniels was flat. I sometimes wonder if RS had held off and cast Theron as Daniels what would AC have been like.

Thank you all for the comments.
 ali81 I'm sorry if this character has not offered more, personally I have been helped with the novelizations to learn more about what I did not know and the film did not get in the 2 hours of film, I hope that somehow you can be satisfied.
hey I imagine Daniels' death with a Tennessee badass next door when everything went bankrupt, as if the Covenant were the Titanic ;D

"Au Revoir Shoshanna"

read it aswell and wont read it again. with all the inconsistencies there wasn't much point to the book

and u don't have to apologise. u didn't make it or cast the actors. I wanted to LOVE this film. was so looking forward to it.

Ali81 agreed, I thought the book was awful. I thought Daniels and Tennessee were awful characters. 

im surprised fox allowed the book to be released with so many parts of the novel not matching the movie. must not think that the fans can actually read and tell that things don't add up. personally I don't consider the novel canon

BigDave

Sorry for the delay, I don't follow this thread, as I am not interested in how lead characters are mutilated just for kicks. I still don't understand why the goo is more effective on Shaw then on the female Engineers when "they are us" (according to Prometheus).

The fate of Daniels is irrelavant, but most likely will be just fine because you cannot waste time introducing new characters in the last movie of a trilogy. Unless you shoe horn in young Ripley or you resurrect Shaw.

And yes, the women of the cannibal tribe in Bone Tomahawk had there limbs cut off, there eyes gauged out or sewn in (can't remember) and probably there tongues also cut out.