ALIEN: Back to the Future Part 1

I will note that in these Series of Back to the Future (Hindsight) Threads you can use any ideas that was pondered prior/during the Said Prequel so in this case Prior to 2012...   But if you want to incorporate ideas that appeared in latter Prequels thats fine but i dont want this to become a Alien Covenant Topic/Bashing...  that is Saved for Back to the Future Part 2.

For example..... Ridley Scott around 1983-1984 had a different idea of where he would have taken the Series (ALIEN 2) and introduce us to TWO Races, at this time it appeared he wanted to carry on with what was left out from STARBEAST and that being the Pyramid and a Ancient Alien Civilization were the Xenomorph was part of this.

And in 2002 he and James Cameron had discussed a Prequel but this never got made, where we would go to the Homeworld of the ALIEN (Xenomorph) and what a Dark Place this would have been but also potentially introduce another Race into the Equation too.

We never really got to see either of these in the Prequel worked on in 2009-2011 but some aspects may have been used, so do you think any of these TWO should have been the way to go, or maybe more elements of them incorporated with the Alien Engineers/Paradise Route?

Great angle BigDave.

What I wanted from the prequels:

When I first watched the first trailers for Prometheus, I thought that Dr. Holloway turned into a giant humanoid and attacked Dr. Shaw in the film....I wasn't sure what I was seeing but I loved the look of the film.

Looking back, what I would change would be to include more of Earth before they left such as archaeology dig sites or an urban scape...shown in flashbacks while they are asleep on the way to LV-223. Include more dream intrusions by David into everyone sleeping, and I would certainly want to see David's visit in Peter Weyland's dream while in hypersleep and a close-up of this yacht, below. 

The Pyramid

The Pyramid is a recurring theme in the scripts, films, and comics. In Aliens: Advent Part 1 (2013), the team sets down for a potential archeological score.

I know this topic is assuming Alien: Covenant hasn't been made, so my wish would be to see some pursue the concepts of the comic in regards to exploring ruins and coming across a human team's ship from before (below).

Dan O'Bannon's Alien Pyramid, below.

"I thought that Dr. Holloway turned into a giant humanoid and attacked Dr. Shaw "

Funny you should say that..... i was thinking similar when i saw the Trailer where some Humanoid was standing over Dr Shaw and looked about 6ft 2"  and i thought this was either David being Granted a Gift like Pinocchio had, or Weyland being Granted a New Body and by Granted i thought maybe Stolen...  But alas it was the Engineer, just that one shot he did-not look 7ft as the Actor was, never mind 8ft+.... it was just a shot of how Camera Angels can make a 7ft Person look 8ft+ in one scene but then just over 6ft in another.

Regarding the Pyramid.... i think to a degree this was in part carried over for Prometheus with our Temple Complexes.   I have never read Alien Advent, but it seems similar to if you replaced the Pyramid with Engineer Temple Complex, and a incoming ship Discovered the Wreckage of Prometheus and the Life-boat.... so more like what a Prometheus 2 could have been if we had a Alternative Plot that investigated LV-223 but then another to Planet 4 could also fit a similar like Plot.

My TWO CENTS...

I think Prometheus was actually interesting, but i felt (aside from some Acting/Scenes) i felt Plot Wise it was Good, i did feel it needed a bit less Ambiguity and a little more clues to the Xenomorph Connection and it need some kind of Xenomorph related Conflict...  i like the Engineers just felt the Size was not good, which they had intended to have them LARGER but they decided against such Effects that The LORD OF THE RINGS/HOBBIT used.

1) A few More Clues between the Connection to LV-223 and the Egg Cargo.  (a bit less Ambiguity) as far as the Xenomorph and Black Goo....  which could have been done via.

*Longer Look at and some related Dialog about the Mural and Frescos.

*Fifield Monster Looking more Alieny. (kills 1-2 less people).

*Milburn either NOT spiting out a Hammerpede, and replace with.... or add after... a Chest Burster, Mouth Burster Organism similar to the Neomorph that would attack a Crew-member and then get KILLED... resulting in Acid Blood.

*Closer Look at one of the other CRYO-PODS with maybe a comment.

These would have helped to make more of a Connection to the Xenomorph, while not being Spoon-Fed it would lead Fans to those Monsters either came from Xenomorph DNA/Experiments or they shared a Common Origin with the Xenomorph (which Alien Engineers covered).

2) Slight Improvement with the Engineers, as in used effects like LOTR and HOBBIT to make our Engineers appear 8-10ft Tall. 

*Maybe a few more clues about the Engineers.

*Longer Engineer Scenes with Dialog and maybe Translations/Subtitles.

Apart from that i think Prometheus was Perfectly passable as a Movie Pseudo Prequel.   Problem is with adding more scenes, such as some you mentioned too Ingeniero is adding to the Run-Time that FOX deemed for a Theatrical Release.

This has caused Problems with the Prequels because you cant cover too much, unless its more a No Brains Action Shoot-em up Movie like ALIENS. were you just Spoon Feed whats needed to get to the Action.

My two cents too BigDave. Overall I thought Prometheus was great.

"2) Slight Improvement with the Engineers, as in used effects like LOTR and HOBBIT to make our Engineers appear 8-10ft Tall. 

*Maybe a few more clues about the Engineers.

*Longer Engineer Scenes with Dialog and maybe Translations/Subtitles."

Yes. That is a great example of how the Engineers should have been depicted in regards to the Hobbits. I agree and wish I could have seen more of the Engineers' ways as well, specifically a conflict of some sort.

"Alien Advent, but it seems similar to if you replaced the Pyramid with Engineer Temple Complex, and a incoming ship Discovered the Wreckage of Prometheus and the Life-boat.... so more like what a Prometheus 2 could have been if we had a Alternative Plot that investigated LV-223 but then another to Planet 4 could also fit a similar like Plot."

I thought the same thing when I looked back at Alien: Advent/Terminus and when reading Ridley Scott mentioning "multiple players" returning to Planet 4 BigDave. The wreckage shown below on Planet 4 reminded me of the last page of the comic above when others arrive after the incident.

And I still think there is a pyramid on Planet 4, below. So, that would really match up to the Advent comic above.

Prometheus was alright (2 out of 5 for me) but it needed clearer links to the Xeno, better human characters, and also a clearer link between the Engineers and the SJ. The Xeno-Fifield should have been in the movie, not the Zombie. Zombies are fine in those kind of movies but not in the Alien universe.

The goo was interesting but they should have been clearer with the connection of the goo-hamerpede-Xeno. My complaint is that it was not clear enough how it was connected to the Xeno.

As with Covenant there were scenes that were cut that should have stayed there. One example is the book that the Engineer picks up and reads. This shows that he is interested in humans and not only a big angry body-builder on a rampage for some vague reason.

The petting a space snake should have been completely removed. It still looks stupid and makes the scientists look like idiots. At least they should have had a clear explanation to why they did that if they want to have it in there at all. Still to this day I find that scene the way it played out to be dumb as fuck.

A bit more from Alien Engineers would have been nice since it was more of a direct link to the Xeno although a bit ambiguity is fine but it should not be as much as in Prometheus. More Spaights less Lindelof. I do not claim that everything bad was Lindelof’s fault, looking back at AC Scott was involved in it also so it could be reasonable to think that Scott and Fox were involved in some bad things that were in Prometheus.

Sub-titles to the Engineer speaks to Weyland, that would have explained things a bit more. This should have been put in the movie because then we would have understood the Engineers a bit more I think.

The run time and extended. Scenes, well then cut some less important scenes as long as you explain more of those that are important. Maybe it would have been longer but it would have been better and maybe more people would have been satisfied with it and Fox would have gained more money and it would have given them happier viewers.

" At least they should have had a clear explanation to why they did that "

Indeed this is another one of those things that the Drafts had a Explanation for... Fifield was STONED i tried to address this with my Re-write/Edit and i combined this with a few other bits that made the whole Scene not seem so bad.  (Fifield and Milburn Got Stoned ) Fifield tried to remove the Crystal (he Loves Rocks Remember)  and he activates the Mural Door,   Milburn is watching the Mural Stoned and he makes some comments about it..  Then the Door Opens Part way, and we get a Quick Glimpse inside (Frescos, Standing Cyro-Pod like Sarcophagi and smaller like Pods (Engineer Smaller Versions of what the Ripley Clones where Grown in).   This Freaks out Fifield who Falls over (slips on Black Goo) and then as he is on all Fours, we see TWO Hammerpedes.... Milburn tells him to stay Calm and gets between Fifield and Hammerpede, the Hammerped appears to be none threatening, so he goes for  a Closer Look but keeps a distance, holds hands up to confuse the Hammerpede (like you can with a Snake) Fifield is Freaking out.... Milburn turns to him and says Stay Calm... then looks back at the Hammerpede, Fifield than says lets get the F out of her and tries to grab Milburn to raise him off his knees, as Milburn Turns, the Hammerpede makes a Dash for him and in a Quick Reaction, Milburn Puts his Arm out and Catches the Hammerpede.

This helps to make more sense of the Scene, and show us a little sneak at what is behind the Door that gives more Context to the Mural Connection (Place they Store Hosts and Face Huggers).   I feel this version i had made up, was more fitting but again IF this was the way Lindeloff wrote it, it may still have had to be cut down due to pacing and Running Time.

Visual Changes/Additions i imagined adding..

"As with Covenant there were scenes that were cut that should have stayed there. One example is the book that the Engineer picks up and reads. This shows that he is interested in humans and not only a big angry body-builder on a rampage for some vague reason."

That is a good scene to cite Thoughts_Dreams.

It would have been great to see from the Engineer's perspective when he pans around looking at the Prometheus crew...when he is waking up and before he tears them apart. It would have been really cool to see how he saw the one synthetic and the rest of the crew.

In Alien: Covenant, there were small instances shown from the xenomorph perspective that I thought were great and this perspective is mentioned in the novels.

There seems to be an element of "the chicken and the egg" here. All I can say is that evidently, the SJ must have been infected pre flight given the broken ribs and acidic hole burnt into the ship's surface..

Well this is ONE of the Intriguing Mysteries with ALIEN and Ultimately i feel it was a PLOT DEVICE  for how Kane could descend into the Egg Chamber,  as they Originally intended to have the Egg Chamber as Separate, but Budget and Time Restraints would mean it was merged with the Derelict as a Cargo Hold.   So they then needed to introduce a Plot Device for HOW they can get to the Cargo Hold.

In doing the Acid Burn Hole it raises some Questions...

1) Did the Chest Buster make that Acid Hole somehow?

This is ONE HELL of a lot of Acid for a Chest Buster or even maybe a Adult to be able to Produce without being Killed?

But WHY would it want to get back to the Cargo Hold it came from?  This explanation would open up a interpretation that the Chest Buster Ending up LAYING those EGGS.

2) Did the Chest Buster get killed and this resulted in the Acid Hole?

But then who/what killed the ALIEN, and what happened to the WHOEVER killed the Chest Buster?

We can rule out another 3rd Common Interpretation which was something climbed up the Cargo Hold and made that Hole to get to the Space Jockey... HOW does a Face Hugger do this, and the Acid Hole looks more like it was made from Top to Bottom.

I think the most Sensible Answer we can look at the Clues Ridley Scott had given us over the Prequels.

*Regardless of Prometheus or Alien Covenant we had RS push us towards seeing the Xenomorph as a Engineered Bio-Weapon.   If this is the Case (which it was intended) then while it may be a Good Weapon to use, its a bit OVERKILL apart from the USE to Destroy a World/Enemy with NO intentions of making use of the World/Ship that the Outbreak Occurs on.

*However (this applies mainly to Prior to Alien Covenant) he had said the Engineers Develop this Weapon to Not Only Eradicate Threats but to CLEAN-UP Worlds... which implies so they can make use of the World Afterwards... this would imply the Bio-Weapon has a Half-Life and eventually a World would be CLEAN and Free of the Bio-Weapon.  A Question is would this apply to the Xenomorph? It was indicated in Alien Engineers, and RS comments he did mention the Derelict Event was related to LV-223 and so we ask Do the Xenomorphs have a Limited Life Span?

Taking those TWO into account and looking into RS comments on the Xenomorph that got killed in Alien Covenant, he had CLAIMED the Xenomorph would have eventually REGENERATED.   Thats a Bold Claim, so how does this WORK? 

The Xenomorph Crushed to a Pulp and Parts will Regenerate in what Hours, Days and what does it become ONE Xenomorph or does each Part become a NEW Xenomorph, so say 50% is a Pile of Goop.... then we have a Tail, Two Legs and a Arm that Separated....  do we then get 4-5 Xenomorphs?

Myself i am not a 100% Fan of this....

HOWEVER.... by Regenerate could he mean the Organism Does-Not Die.... but it can LIVE on in some other Capacity, i made a Cabbage Patch Post before, as they look like how the Eggs are laid out in ALIEN

Cabbage Material when it Dies, it then Regrows into a Clone of itself.... you could cut a Cabbage up into say 6 parts and provided it lands on Suitable Soil Etc, then 6 Clone Cabbages will Grow in its Place.

CONSIDERING all the above....

If the Xenomorph has a Certain Life Expectancy then this is ideal for a Bio-Weapon, If when a Xenomorph Dies, be it KILLED or after its Life Expectancy we see it begin to Break Down (Result in Acid) and then from this Process we either get.

1) A Egg or Eggs Start to Grow from it.

2) Breaks Down into a Mutagen like the Black Goo, that can infect Organic Matter to become a NEW Incubator for its Life-Cycle (Egg or Spore) Stage.

I feel this would be a Good Trait for a Intended Bio-Weapon, it also fits with Ridley Scott saying the Weapon was used to CLEAN UP Worlds and the Organism would have Regenerated.

A Xenomorph with a Limited Life Expectancy, that then Dies, Decomposes and the Result Burns Through the Floor of the Derelict... i feel would be a GOOD explanation for that HOLE.

I am sure a Few HOLES (Pun Intended) could even be found in this Explanation...  For Starters, Dallas, Kane and Lambert Found a way into the Pilot Room.... so surely the Chest Buster could have escaped from this Room.

BigDave

"1) A Egg or Eggs Start to Grow from it."

Wow! That's a really great idea, like eggmorphing. This ability make Xenomorph more "alien" and strange. And dangerous, of course. Imagine if Colonial Marines kill xenomorphs and leave this place for undefined period. And then next expedition, who think what place was cleansed found eggs growing from the remains of xenomorphs.

In retrospect, I think that Spaihts’ screenplay would have made a better movie (I have read the screenplay a second time now). Not that Prometheus was a bad movie, but it was a disappointment to Alien fans (including me) since they wanted to see the xenomorph. So they were kind of fooled.

Spaihts’ screenplay would have given the audience (well, most of them) what they wanted and Scott wouldn’t have been forced to re-introduce it in AC.

Spaihts’ screenplay gives us the best of two worlds: We get the Engineers and the creation theme, we get David and Shaw, and we get monsters: the neomorph and the xenomorph (and an ultramorph). The neomorph is really scary in this version.

The screenplay isn’t as complicated as Prometheus turned out to be. For instance, there is no pathogen. The Engineers engineered the xenomorph (to wipe out worlds). It is also obvious that the Engineers’ DNA (through scarabs) have evolved mankind. Furthermore, the planetoid is LV-426 (not LV-223) and the pyramids (24) are made for terraforming (which is unclear in Prometheus).

Certainly Chli

I think a Amalgamation of both Spaights and Lindeloffs works would have given a Best of Both Worlds.

I much prefer the work of Lindeloff but it did LACK a bit of Xenomorph connections..

Alien Engineers/Genesis does take place on LV-426 but its also Flawed... we have to ASK....  

*Why do we not see those Pyramids in the Alien Franchise?

*Why do we not see the Wreckage of the MAGELLAN?

This is also a interest part that is in BOTH the Alien Engineers Draft and Alien Genesis.

===============

HOLLOWAY

Tell me that's a natural formation.

(he grins)
Undeniable proof of alien
civilization. You were here on this
day, thirty-one December, year of our
Lord 2172. History will remember your
names .

================

More than just a Typo perhaps?

But certainly a number of Aspects of those Drafts should have made it into the FINAL DRAFT  they did-not have to give us Xenomorphs, but certainly something similar a different Variant or something to give us more of a indication...

And also the ONLY actually Death Scenes caused by a Aggressor was via Fifield and the Engineer, plus the Hammerpede a more Xenomorph like Fifield (as in Drafts) and another Xenomorph like Monster would certainly have HELPED.

Well, I interpret the year 2172 as just a flaw, the Magellan is blown to pieces, and the pyramids might be a bit further away from the Derelict. Let’s say they have failed in their terraforming task (no one maintains them) and the climate is terrible with no clear view.

The advantage with this is that we have a scenario which is consistent with Alien. We’ve got the explanation for what happened to the Space Jockey (Engineer), why there are xeno-eggs in the cargo hold and why the Derelict is there (on LV-426).

I think maybe the Date was a Typo... seems ODD...

But a thing to remember if we GO "back to the future" is that Originally Indeed the Point of the Prequels was to cover a FEW things...

*Indicate the Origin of the Xenomorph?

*Indicate who the Space Jockey were?

*Indicate why the Space Jockey would have the Xenomorph Cargo!

And the THING is......  you DONT have to have a Prequel to Answer that!

You certainly DONT have to show the Space Jockey Event.. which is the route Prometheus had taken... only it was too ambiguous to Answer those 3 Questions/Points of a Prequel (well ONE)

IF we assume Alien Engineers was intended as a Prequel... then there is a FLAW with the AGE of the Space Jockey...  if Alien Engineers is SET before ALIEN which it most Certainly had to be because its SAFE to assume Peter Weyland was the Founder of the Weyland Company.

Then the Derelict would NOT have been on LV-426 for Thousands of Years.....

There are Flaws with the Draft... it does indicate the Wreckage of the MAGELLAN remains in much more intact than the PROMETHEUS.  The VICKERS MODULE remaining INTACT.

I think there is some Explanation to cover the Destruction of the MAGELLAN but its seems after the Crash there would be much more Recognizable Debris than is left from the PROMETHEUS.

So i think as a Direct Prequel it has Flaws and Needs a Tidy Up..   The PYRAMIDS rise from the Ground so they could Lower Back down again...

But in ALIEN the Beacon was from the Ship... so thats another Flaw!

The Date of 2172 is likely a Typo by Virtue of Mr Weyland and Weyland Industries so this is PRIOR to Weyland-Yutani and thus PRIOR to ALIEN.

So a WAY this Draft could have worked would be if the DATE was 2072 (or other prior to 2122). And that the EVENTS of Alien Engineers/Genesis happen  on another SIDE of the LV-426 Moon... 

And so it does-not indicate the Space Jockey Event, but it takes to a Similar Event so we could then Speculate the Space Jockey also suffered a similar fate just Thousands of Years prior and CRASHED on a Different part of LV-426.

If the Draft was Re-wrote to correct the Date and Indicate a Separate Event i think it would not Conflict ALIEN as much...   WHY i would even say Moving it to a Near By Moon like Lindeloff did with LV-223 would be BETTER.

There are things i like with those Drafts (Spaights) but there are things i am not a Fan of... it is TRYING to be a bit ALIENS as far as making WATTS (Earlier Dr Shaw) be a bit too much Gung Ho Bad Ass even more so than Ripley.

I think ALIENS Fans would Dig Alien Engineers a lot..

For me i would liked to had seen about 50-60% of Lindeloffs Draft with 20-30% of Alien Engineers and then 15-25% of additional FILLER to Merge them.

I did do TWO Alternative Prometheus Drafts that i had got about 70% through each before i LOST them.... these were mainly Prometheus/Paradise with Changes made by me so about 75-80% would been Lindeloffs work.. the Rest additions and changes that would have added some of what Alien Engineers had.. without really borrowing from it.

I had also started on a Alien Engineers rewrite which would have kept about 60-70% of that Draft.

I do think between Spaights work and Lindeloffs was the more BETTER Movie.... if they had someone else come in and Merge both writers works.

"And the THING is......  you DONT have to have a Prequel to Answer that!"

I went a bit off the rails after i put that... what i meant was that they could have taken Alien Engineers Draft, changed it a bit to be on a Different Part of LV-426 or even on LV-223....   so the Events showed another Engineer Ship, that Crashed and the Ultramorph was unleashed as per ALIEN ENGINEERS... this would Confirm there was a Connection as far as Alien Engineers shows us the Engineers Experiments and Eggs... but lets suppose the Ship that Crashed in Alien Engineers... WAS-NOT the Derelict.

We would NOT have to see the Derelict because we would have known what happened in Alien Engineers to that Engineer (the last of his kind) had happened to others and the Space Jockey some Thousands of Years earlier.

The same applies with any Prequel they could have made... you NEVER have to go show the Derelict Event or even Visit the Ship.

Showing a Outpost be it on LV-426 or LV-223 and showing Eggs, or maybe Eggs on another Engineer Ship would have been more than enough to make the Connection.... which Sadly Prometheus did-not!

The other issue was a lack of Alieny Monsters... Alien Covenant had the Neomorph, it never needed a Xenomorph this was only needed to Spoon Feed a Xenomorph Origin.

Sadly for Prometheus.... Zombie Fifield, and Angry Engineer and Face Raping Hammerpede could not compete with the Xenomorphs we had in the Franchise or the Neomorphs.

The points i am raising can APPLY to if they decide to Ditch the David Created the Xenomorph Arc..

Another Movie that goes back to LV-223 and shows us more Clear Connections, introduces us to Eggs that can contain a Totally Different Monster but indicate as Alien Engineers did that the Engineers had created Variations of Monsters...

You could say introduce these..

If you showed TWO of these Designs by Carlos Huante and as long as you show that ONE comes from a EGG and a Face Hugger Like Organism.

Then this would indicate a Connection with ALIEN even without showing the Derelict....   doing this prior to Alien Covenant would have been ENOUGH to then Steer Away from ALIEN and such things in a Prometheus sequel.

Doing a Movie like this NOW would please Fans and could leave it AMBIGUOUS to IF our David did or did-not create the Xenomorph.

Even if we take the date 2072, it would be a problem to make the Space Jockey look fossilized. But the problem would be greater still if David is supposed to be the creator of the xenomorph. He would have to be Superman to accomplish everything in just a couple of years’ time.

I agree that we don’t have to see the actual event but can see something which makes us conclude that something similar happened a long time ago to the Space Jockey. That’s fine with me and would make David not the creator of the xenomorph.

I also agree that they could have skipped the hammerpede and zombie-Fifield and used Spaihts’ neomorph instead (one monster and an angry Engineer is enough).

"I think ALIENS Fans would Dig Alien Engineers a lot.."

Not necessarily. It depends on how it's done. Aliens and AC were a lot about action and shooting, with macho men and macho women.

You could make a creepy atmosphere with a neomorph sneaking through dark hallways and vents (more like Alien).

Certainly i think thats WHY they made a few Mistakes at times with the Writers for the Prequels. Prometheus was more along the RIGHT idea, only it was too Ambiguous and lacked any Xenomorph like Threats.

By what i mean above is that Prometheus aimed to NOT give us a Direct Prequel route, as you dont have to set up to show the Derelict Event (unless as a Flash Back) or else you still run into the Problem of the Derelict/Space Jockey not being on LV-426 for Very Long, unless you employ some kind of Time Travel. (i think thats a Mistake unless done in a ONE-OFF way).

so it needed to show some connection with Eggs, it needed to show some kind of MORPH, the only one we really got was the Deacon and well that was just a Chest Buster that Snarled... it would be like if ALIEN ended right after the Chest Buster ran off the Dining Table.

Regarding the ALIENS fans comment i meant that Alien Engineers was more closer to a Aliens than a Alien type Flick, with a bit of Action... apparently the Earlier Drafts were VERY like ALIENS.

Which Carlos Huante said was NOT Good... Prometheus was FAR too LESS than a ALIEN or ALIENS

So in Context to the OT...

In Hindsight the First Prequel should have been Close to Prometheus but added less Ambiguity and had some kind of Xenomorph like Threat.

It should NOT have Spoon Fed the Answers or show the Space Jockey Event, but given enough clues to similar Ancient goings on...

It should NOT have a traditional Xenomorph but certainly something more similar to it than the Deacon.

THIS... would have Pacified Fans a bit more... it would have ALLOWED a Prometheus 2 to go and do its OWN thing and NOT be a ALIEN Franchise Movie.

THEY could then go and have another ALIEN Prequel that goes to LV-223 in search of what happened to the Prometheus that is more Alien Engineers than Prometheus, where we could see 2-3 kinds of MORPHS and give more clearer indication of what happened on LV-223 many Thousands of Years ago and THUS indicate the Derelict was a Result of this.

A Movie that could then lead to Special Order 937

But ALAS