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Calpamos 2094-2122

Calpamos 2094-2122

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BigDave

Oct-07-2019 5:09 PM

I know this is a Subject that had been Discussed before, i thought maybe it could be something to Discuss again in LIGHT of Alien Covenant and how this Plot Sets up what Happened between 2094 and 2122.

In 2091 the USCSS Prometheus had set off for a System near by Zeta 2 Reticuli taking us to a Moon (LV-223) Orbiting a Giant Gas Planet

The End of Prometheus we have Dr Shaw and David leaving this Planet but prior to this we see that Dr Shaw had Broadcasted a SOS Warning to NOT come to this Place (LV-223).

In 2122 we have the USCSS Nostromo arrive at a System near the Zeta 2 Reticuli taking us to a Moon (LV-426) Orbiting a Giant Gas Planet

The Nostromo being Rerouted their to apparently Investigate a Unknown Signal.

There are some 28 Years between these Events...

So we are left with a Few Questions, which are Raised Especially after Alien Covenant.

1) Why in ALIEN had they NOT detected Dr Shaws Warning?

2) Had the Company prior to 2122 detected Dr Shaws Warning and WHY had they NOT been back to LV-223 (or could they have?).

3) If the Derelict Signal had been Transmitted prior to 2094 then WHY had we not seen signs of the Prometheus being aware of this, and WHY had it not been Investigated between 2094 and 2105 (or had it?).

4) With the Revelations of Alien Covenant and the Advent Message, then we would surely wonder WHY would none of Dr Shaws or the Derelict Signals been Detected by the Time the Company receive Davids Message.  And then WHY had they not been to Investigate prior to 2122 with the Nostromo (or had they?)

I know there are Certain Pieces of Evidence we could use to Indicate certain things, especially in Regards to the Derelict and its Signal.   But  in light of Alien Covenant the Wayland-Industries Viral site was Taken Down as it would Conflict with the Plot that there would be NO ship or Signal on LV-426 prior to the Covenant Mission.

The DVD Extras likewise could be something we may have to discard as Canon too.  

What ever the Production have to say about any of this, especially Ridley Scott maybe can be thrown out as far as Older Comments due to Change of Direction.

So Theatrically all we have to go on as FAR as the LV-426 Signal is that the SHIP looked like it was there for Longer than 17 Years.

But then we also have to ask about the Signal from LV-223.

These could be things that could have been Addressed in Sequels as we are NOT yet Concluded.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

23 Responses to Calpamos 2094-2122

Leto

Oct-07-2019 11:48 PM

1) a) Alien was filmed before Prometheus. Even before Prometheus appeared in the plans.

b) Even in early Prometheus LV-223 was called as LV-426.

 

2) We do not know where and on which device Shaw left a warning. But we can assume that it was a human device. But it turned out to be weak, so no one noticed Shaw's signal.

 

3) a) "If the Derelict Signal had been Transmitted prior to 2094 then WHY had we not seen signs of the Prometheus being aware of this"

See point 1 - b.

b) "and WHY had it not been Investigated between 2094 and 2105 (or had it?)."

Well, as we know, excluding extras, Prometheus mission was a secret. Maybe no one in the company knew about signal and LV-223/Lv-426 after Weyland left.

 

4) a) See point 2.

b) Derelict's signals may also have a limited transmission area. Covenant ship could detect Platent-4 Derelict's signal only when it was nearby.

 

My thoughts: Prometheus should have been a sequel of Alien. Not a prequel. This would avoid confusion in multiple planets, signals and derelicts.

 

 

S.M

Oct-08-2019 3:41 AM

Shaw would've transmitted her message from her suit via the lifeboat's transmitter.  Silica storms muck around with the comms.  Years of silica storms would likely wreck the transmitter eventually.

MonsterZero

Oct-08-2019 6:14 AM

Shaw's signal:

AI is probably parsing all deep space messages...doubt very much a human is listening to these signals? The message isn't about incoming cargo or docking requests...so maybe the AI has orders to forward such messages to : Peter Weyland.

BigDave

Oct-08-2019 8:36 AM

@Leto

I may have caused some confusion, i was not intending to be looking at Literally from the Movie Standpoint so i should have been a bit more clearer ;)

I understand that Prometheus was not Conceived back in 1979, so my purpose was to Wonder what would the Company had known and hidden by the Time we get to 2122, considering events of the Prequels.

So when looking at....

1) I think there have been some Good Answers, it was likely Dr Shaw used the Life-Boat as a Relay, and who knows how long it would take to Reach Earth, (2 Years?), and indeed the Prometheus was a Classified Mission only a Limited Number would be aware of it, and so those who are LEFT behind that are High Ranking in the Company may have NO Concerns to the Fate of the Prometheus, Weyland or Vickers as their Disappearance could PLAY to their Advantage.

I think SM makes a Great Point, we dont know HOW the Dust Storms may Effect any Communications from LV-223, we dont know also if the Transmitter becomes Damaged at some point and so WHEN and IF it stops Transmitting.

2) Partially covered above, i would suspect (but until we get a Sequel its not Conclusive) that in Light of Davids Message that the Company would Investigate LV-223 prior to ALIEN in 2122, if we also continue with the David as the Creator Plot, then i would suspect the Derelict would be either HEADING towards or LEAVING LV-223 before the Space Jockeys Fate Unfolds.

"3) a) "If the Derelict Signal had been Transmitted prior to 2094 then WHY had we not seen signs of the Prometheus being aware of this"

See point 1 - b."

I dont see the Relevance of how LV-426 changed to LV-223 had on the Plot, i think this was just a change to make the Derelict have Crashed on a near by Moon to where the Engineers had their Outpost/Experiments, rather than as the same Planet so i think as far as Alien Engineers Canon, then LV-426 would only be the Place that the Derelict would Eventually End Up on.

But as far as (3) it depends on the Plot Direction, as of Prometheus and Prior then we would have to Assume it was Likely the Signal had been Transmitting for a Long Time, likely it was not a Strong Signal, and so only being within the Vicinity would give a Clearer Indication.  The Weyland Viral Site and DVD Extras from Prometheus Era may NO-LONGER apply as Evidence.

IF we assume the Derelict was there prior to 2094, then maybe David and the Prometheus could have Detected it and their was a Priority to HIDE this from the other Crew which included Vickers and the Pilots/Captain.  And David would have seen getting to Paradise as a Priority.

The Company would then likely had detected the Space Jockey SOS and issued Special Order either as a Result of what David discovered on Paradise or a Company Mission to LV-223.

IF they instead stick with the David Creator Plot, then it could likely be that as of 2094 there is NO crashed Derelict on LV-426, and this Event would happen at some point between 2105-2122 and so the Company would Detect this Signal and Issue Special Order 937 in response to what they would do after they receive Davids Advent Message. (likely Investigate LV-223/Planet 4)

(4) I think i have Covered in the above......

So we are Stuck in Limbo really with Alien Covenant because now we are left with it being LIKELY there was NO Derelict on LV-426 prior to 2105 but then UNTIL the Prequels are Concluded there is NO 100% Proof that there was NO Derelict on LV-426 for a Long Long Time.

So its just added a Potential for there to BE or NOT BE any Ship and Eggs on LV-426 prior to Prometheus and UNTIL we get a Conclusion its all up in the AIR!

This all came about as a Consequence of giving us a Direct Prequel route to ALIEN after the events of Prometheus.

A Mistake in my Opinion.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Oct-08-2019 8:49 AM

"My thoughts: Prometheus should have been a sequel of Alien. Not a prequel. This would avoid confusion in multiple planets, signals and derelicts"

To a degree i think YES!

The Prequel with Alien Engineers did seem to indicate (but there was Conflicts) that the Events of that Movie Idea are what led to the Derelict, and so IF it was not for Dr Watts (Shaw) and Holloway and the Mission to that System in search of our Creators... then it seemed to indicate the Derelict would NOT have crashed on LV-426, it would have been Stuck in its Hanger with the Pilot in Cryo-Sleep.

So that Prequel would have also made the Derelict and Eggs as something that has NOT been there for Thousands of Years!

So Prometheus was a Smarter Move.... keeping it a Mystery but seemed to draw us to the Derelict being a Ancient Event...

But then we got Alien Covenant!

There were other ways to introduce the Xenomorph for a Fan Service, and Indicate what happened to the Derelict without having to set those Events as something Chronologically leading to ALIEN...

I think in HINDSIGHT.... they should have given the Fanboys a LV-223 based Prometheus Sequel called Epimetheus were they Investigate the Disappearance of the Prometheus, and uncover a Ship or Outpost with Eggs that contain a Variant of the Xenomorph.  That either reveals the Engineers had obtained Eggs from LV-426 or they had Created Variants of Eggs on LV-223.

They could have then gone and been FREE to make another Prometheus Sequel that would NOT have to Tie in to ALIEN and have the Freedom to Follow the Plans that Ridley Scott had intended prior to 2015

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Oct-08-2019 4:35 PM

I don't know if FTL communication is canon or not in the Alien verse?

Shaw's message is going to take 39 years to reach Earth...Maybe the relay can open a wormhole(or some other trope) and transmit instantly?

I hope for no FTL communication....feels more isolated...you are truly on your own. Only way to deliver a message quickly is a fast vessel/probe.

 

Prometheus should have been a sequel of Alien.

Yes! Works for me.

S.M

Oct-08-2019 6:56 PM

Yes FTL communications is canon as evidenced in Aliens and Covenant.

dk

Oct-08-2019 8:35 PM

I try not to get caught up in time lines. I watch the movies for what they are and see that Prometheus is first followed by AC and then the Quadrilogy. Theatrically, it seems we need a follow up to AC if nothing else for David's story arc. 

The above posts suggest time travel whether by FTL or worm holes. Those would be new concepts to pitch a follow up to Disney- whom already seems lukewarm to Alien at best. Theatrically, I think we need Awakening (whatever that might be) or a sequel to Resurrection. Anything else should be explored via streaming services imo.

Leto

Oct-09-2019 3:01 AM

2) Had the Company prior to 2122 detected Dr Shaws Warning and WHY had they NOT been back to LV-223 (or could they have?).

3) and WHY had it not been Investigated between 2094 and 2105 (or had it?).

4) And then WHY had they not been to Investigate prior to 2122 with the Nostromo (or had they?)

 

I think, we can use Alien: Covenant as a hint. This is so strange that Covenant flying across the huge space and get damage by "immossible" neutrino burst. > Neutrino burst is not a wall or wave. > It is a sphere with a very small diameter. > This sphere went straight to the ship. > In the end, the crew received the message from the planet, which was located a couple of weeks from them. By cosmic standards, this is closer than the distance between your head and the monitor.

 

Coincidence or someone's plan? David activate some Engineers technologies? Or WY sent Covenant in the proposed location of the disappearance of Prometheus?

Or both. WY sent Covenant as a gift for David? The "Covenant" word also mean "contract", "deal". This can be the one huge deal between WY and David. And, of course, David wants to destroy the humanity, but it's his wishes. This does not contradict the fact that he can work on WY. This can be subconsciously, with hidden subroutines.

hox

Oct-09-2019 4:41 AM

"Neutrino burst is not a wall or wave. > It is a sphere with a very small diameter".

This is not true. The result of a cataclysmic event (e.g. a supernova) can send out a blast of neutrinos that expands as a shell that increases in diameter forever. It thins out over time, obviously but can travel right across the universe.

Where Covenant gets it quite wrong is that neutrinos very rarely interact with regular matter and would not mess about with the spaceship in the way that it was portrayed in the movie. Neutrinos stream out from the centre of our Sun all the time in vast quantities as a result of nuclear reactions in the Sun's core. They travel straight out from the core through half a million miles of the Sun, 8 minutes through space, right through the Earth and right through your body. Trillions pass through your body every second and you don't know about it. Neutrinos are absolutely tiny. A neutrino is to an atom as an atom is to a solar system. On Earth we have to fill massive tanks with special chemicals to detect solar neutrinos. If we're lucky, a few detection events occur every year. That's how feebly they interact with regular matter.

hox

Oct-09-2019 4:47 AM

One thing about David possibly being the Space Jockey on LV-426. I don't think that could be true. He's not stupid. Why would he transmit (or allow to be transmitted) a warning message from the derelict ship? Ripley decoded the message and interpreted it as a warning. That's not David's intent at all if he wants the destruction of mankind / Engineers. Unless, of course, he had a change of heart. Anything's possible when you go crazy, I suppose. And he was crazy.

MonsterZero

Oct-09-2019 6:06 AM

'Yes FTL communications is canon as evidenced in Aliens and Covenant.'

Ahh. Thanks.

 

David as the space jockey....He could of had passengers(other than the eggs!)? The derelict on LV-426 wasn't thoroughly explored by the Nostromo....There could still be Engineers or humans still in cryo chambers? Maybe the passenger(s) turned on the beacon and then died/rescued.

BigDave

Oct-09-2019 8:53 AM

Regarding FTL Communications we had that in ALIENS, contact between Hadleys Hope and Weyland, but this is set 85 Years after Dr Shaws Warning.   I would doubt that Contact from the Prometheus to Earth would have taken 39 Years we can assume it would take at least TWO Years though.

Regarding the Neutrino Burst it was a Plot Device, and maybe something NOT SO thought out... they should have indicated Gamma Ray Damage.

Its indicated it was purely Coincidence via the Birth of a New Star.  The Covenant was likely just on its way to Origae-6.   How did David use his Security Code, thats something for a Conspiracy, he could have Programed that into the Ship in a Period of Time that was NOT shown in the Course of the Movie.  But to do this he would have had to use Walters Security Codes and so we have a bit of Plot Hole, where we can ask HOW did he obtain those and YET fail to obtain knowledge about the Cabin on the Lake... Likely Answer he only Probed Walter for Specific Information.

It would be ODD for David to issue a Warning (Derelict) and then if he had a Change of Heart then WHY not Transmit it into a Language that Humans would Understand?

So whatever Route they take, i think it would be IDEAL to keep the Space Jockey and the SOS as None Human, None Android and also NOT by something David would Create in Future.... and so keep it as a Engineer unless we reveal another Ancient Species for the Space Jockey.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Oct-09-2019 9:07 AM

David could still end up the Space Jockey and have it FIT with the Prometheus Themes that are Overlooked.

David is a Creation of Mankind... yet he is Created as SUPERIOR in many ways.

LV-223 Engineers are NOT the Original Engineers, those on Planet 4 are and yet they look In-Superior.

The Deacon was worshiped in some way, it was indicated by David that "sometimes to Create, One must First Destroy" and so this could imply those Engineers saw the Deacon as a Natural Order of Evolution they had Engineered.

David had experimented on many things on Planet 4, but saw the Xenomorph as his Masterpiece.

So what we have really is the Pursuit of Perfection from Sub Creating.

Ridley Scott had claimed the Next Movie would be about AI, and What Kind of a World that David would Create and NOT about the Xenomorph he had also said the Replicants are a AI

when he told Daniels i will TUCK the Children in, before he Regurgitated those Embryo's then this all adds up to some Plans for those Embryo's

It is likely David would UPLOAD himself into a Walter Spare Body made from Parts...

IF we see David goes on to Engineer/Create a Humanoid Figure that he sees as Superior, then a ULTIMATE Hubris for him could come from either.

1) This Race Rebels...

2) He Uploads his Soul to this Creation

IF he say does Option (2) and Creates a 10ft Superior Humanoid, with somewhat Regenerative Ability where he would see this Physical Body as Superior or more Beneficial than his OWN (like maybe he can Procreate in this Body)   Then for him to have his SOUL in this NEW Form could come back to BITE HIM if he was to be Infected with the Xenomorph!

I would NOT have put this past being similar to the Plans...

But i would much Rather the Space Jockey being some Ancient Race who have some Connection to the Engineers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Oct-09-2019 11:33 AM

I'm with you, BigDave, on the idea of the Space Jockey being an ancient race. I've always thought that would be a more interesting backdrop to the story.

Interesting point about David perhaps uploading his 'soul' from one creation to another. That would actually be a get-out option if he wasn't available to take part in another movie. I'd still like to see Fassbender back in action, though.

MonsterZero

Oct-09-2019 5:17 PM

'Ridley Scott had claimed the Next Movie would be about AI, and What Kind of a World that David would Create and NOT about the Xenomorph he had also said the Replicants are a AI'

 

With 2 embryo's,  that's 2 xenomorphs?.so yeah...I'd say less xeno action...Unless the laboratory aboard the Covenant is something special or a modded food replicator(joke).

David: Space Jockey 

David has already crashed(or been shot down)a juggernaut! I can't believe they would repeat that idea?

I mean, he crashes one in AC and another in AC2?!?

I really hope they don't do this.

dk

Oct-09-2019 6:11 PM

David should die off in a viral video like Shaw did. I wasn't a big Shaw fan but the character deserved a better send off. As for Shaw, so for David.

Leto

Oct-10-2019 3:41 AM

tbh

I don't like idea that next film will be "about AI". It just sounds boring. And inspires thoughts about another android-show, what AC has already done. Yeah, yeah - AI it's not only androids, but whatever you want. It seems that Ridley has his own meaning of AI.

And I don't like idea that David return to LV-223 or stack on Planet-4. It's just a waste of expectations and marking time. It must be Origae-6; possibly with connection to LV-426, but not necessary.

 

MonsterZero

Oct-10-2019 5:38 AM

Neutrino burst:

I find it more interesting that MUTHUR didn't alert them to Shaw's signal. Tennessee had to pick it up on his suit! Mother probably deemed it unnecessary for the intended mission....then probably relayed it Earth?

BigDave

Oct-10-2019 7:24 AM

@MonsterZero

The TWO Xenomorphs is interesting to Ponder, as i said before in other topics the Lazy Route would be that they Produce a Egg Laying Queen... but i dont think Ridley Scott would have gone the Camerons Queen route.  But as far as the Egg Morph i think that is something he could have Explored.  The other way to Mass Produce a Xenomorph from TWO would be IF he has any Black Goo, he could then use this to obtain and then merge the Xenomorph Traits to either those Embryo's or even Egg Cells.  And so i would assume we would have seen ONE or BOTH of those Methods of getting more Xenomorphs and NOT any Camerons Queen.

@hox

Indeed such a Plot (Upload his Soul) could become a Plot Convenience for any eventual Conclusion, as it would NOT be dependent on having to re-cast Micheal Fassbender.   I would suspect that any AI based sequel could indicate a Transcendence of Davids Soul to the Company Computer Systems and so in effect MUTHUR could become David.  And so a Company who at some point is RAN by the AI of David would explain the Agenda of Obtaining the Xenomorph without any Concerns of the Human Cost.

@Leto

I think it really depends on WHERE they would take us, it does appear that RS had intended at least TWO more movies before we discover who is in that Chair on the Derelict.   It appears that Oriage-6 will be the setting of at least the Next Movie, and the Incoming Engineers could likely had been the Source of the Derelict.

For the Prequels to Chronologically Conclude with the Derelict on LV-426, then a Engineer Ship would either have to be heading to LV-223 or leaving LV-223 at the Climax of the Prequels before that SHIP is FORCED to Land on LV-426

But thats ONLY if they Continue with Chronologically Connecting to ALIEN.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Oct-10-2019 10:33 AM

@MonsterZero, some kind of account was given in the movie as to why the Planet 4 signal wasn't picked up by the ship. Something about Tennessee being beyond the extent of their internal communication buffers, or something like that.

MonsterZero

Oct-10-2019 4:35 PM

@hox

Yeah..I just re-watched the scene...Sounds like a bunch of writer/plot induced nonsense.

"Our super powerful data acquisition service only extends a couple of feet from the exterior of the ship.....perhaps we should have upgraded to a ham radio?"

I'd Rather have had MUTHUR tell them it was an unessential signal and to continue on their mission....but that might bring up a MUTHUR can't be trusted plot line.

"What are you hiding MUTHUR?!"

Ingeniero

Oct-12-2019 3:19 PM

The FTL communication may explain the scrambled time stamp in the Covenant Crew Messages below.

Tennessee

 

Daniels

 

Private Rosenthal

 

Captain Oram

 

Sergeant Lope

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