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ALIEN: ALPHA

ALIEN: ALPHA

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Forum Topic

BigDave

Oct-18-2019 6:47 AM

Its been about 10 YEARS since FOX had decided to re-explore the ALIEN Franchise and Decided with Ridley Scott that exploring the Mystery of the Space Jockey and Derelict would be the WAY TO GO.

No One had ever expanded upon WHO the Pilot was, and WHY he was Carrying those Eggs on his Ship and WHERE those Eggs came from......

John Spaights had given a Pitch to FOX/Ridley Scott entitled Alien 01 The Master Narrative and this evolved into what became Prometheus.  The Prequels then Continued and have Polarized the Fanbase as for MOST they are FAR from what they had expected any Revelations about the Space Jockey and Xenomorph Origins and Connections to be.

The MAIN purpose of this Topic is to CAST yourself back to 10 Years ago, at a Time that THEY had decided to go ahead and make a Prequel (well a Movie to Cover to some Degree at least the Origin of the Xenomorph and Space Jockey).   And to THEN give your Two Cents or Ideas to HOW you would have liked to had seen this Prequel or somewhat Prequel to have played out.

Some things to Consider when back at the Drawing Board.

1) What Time-Line do you set the Movie in, also include any Flash Back Scene Time-Lines?

2) What Location do you set the Movie on/in, back to LV-426, a near by Moon/Planet (like was done with LV-223) or another Place in the Galaxy? maybe also HOW FAR away does this take Place?

3) Do you go for a Direct Prequel where you explain what happened to the Derelict, and then do you DO-SO in a Chronological Route, or Provide Solid Clues/Flash Backs? 

OR do you infer Clues that would drawn Fans to WHAT likely happened without having to Visit or Show the Derelict?

4) Do you explore the Space Jockey, and to what Extent and Detail, do you see any ALIVE Space Jockey's? How Deep do you explore their Agenda and History or Set up this for a Sequel?

Do you have them Communicate with Each Other and Provide Sub Titles?  Do they/can they Communicate with Humans and HOW?

5) Do you offer a Direct Answer to WHERE/HOW those Eggs had Originated from?  And what the Connection the Space Jockey has with them?

6) Do you introduce the Xenomorph, or do you introduce something a bit Different?

7) How do you introduce Human Characters because they surely would be NEEDED, and so its HOW do any Humans END-UP at a Location that would then allow us to Answer some of those Questions left from ALIEN?

So this is KIND-OF like a Chance to go back and CHANGE the Prequels... a Reboot if you would, where you can Feel Free to include some of what the Prequels had Covered and Change a bit.... OR to Completely come up with something Totally Different.

Feel Free to think about coming up with ideas Visually too, or even if any UNUSED Concepts/Ideas from any of the FRANCHISE (Inc Prequels) would be ideal to introduce... or even stuff that HR Giger worked on, that does-not have to be anything he had done for ALIEN.

I know the Prequels had NOT been to everyone's liking so here is a Chance to VOICE how you would have Tackled them from Scratch ;)

Also feel Free to come up with a Title... if you think ALIEN ALPHA is not the best Origin Name... the Prequel had been Alien Genesis at one point.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

31 Responses to ALIEN: ALPHA

Leto

Oct-18-2019 8:59 AM

Ok. My first option - classic.

1) Before Alien. Year can be the same - 2093.

2) Definitely - LV-426.

3) Only a direct prequel to Alien. Basically the same script, including the ending. Prometheus crew discover Enineer's/Space Jockey's pyramids, then all dies. Engineer/Space Jockey killed by chestburster, and Shaw & David survived and fled to another film. :)

4) Good question. I want to see more about Engineer's technologies and science, not about not about their kinship ties.

How Deep do you explore their Agenda and History or Set up this for a Sequel?

No. The story must be self-sufficient. No nonsense, such as - maybe we will answer later, maybe in a sequel, or maybe in a triquel, or maybe not answer at all - because mystery for mystery - it is very interesting!

Get me right - the film should set the stage and give enough information about the Engineers. For the viewer to understand what kind of civilization this is. The sequels can develop and deepen knowledge. But basic information should be provided in the first film.

Do they/can they Communicate with Humans and HOW?

I think - they will have the big fists. xD

5) Yes.

And what the Connection the Space Jockey has with them?

Engineers/Space Jockeys process eggs (or aliens) into black goo.

6) Xenomorph in the end. Main action with neomorphs.

7) Characters will be smart. And scientists will work like scientists.

 

P.S. Of course, Giger's aesthetics should prevail. There are no stone caves, stone buildings, Jedi robes ;), no another stone planet without a life.

MonsterZero

Oct-18-2019 1:21 PM

cool. I'll give it a go.

 

1. Classic timeline 2090ish.

2. No LV-426 visit or LV-223.

3. infer clues..they can figure it out.(maybe?)

4. Space Jockeys all dead millions(if not billions) of years.

5. absolutely. David and Shaw(and hopefully the audience) figure it out. 

6. Classic Xenomorph 

7. No one looking for ancient astronauts. hard core science.

 

Start the movie showing LEO A a satellite galaxy of the Milky Way.

 The galaxy is over run by xenomorph egg infestation sextillion dotting(and rotting) on the surface of planets and their moons(not sure how to show the galaxy is their hive?).

Cut to: A race of humanoid (Engineers) building a massive transportation super structure. the Engineers want to access local galaxies(and Andromeda) using advanced transportation technology.

They finally succeed in opening the gateway(s) and start exploring nearby dwarf galaxies(one being LEO A)....bringing samples of stuff they find back home(Milky Way)

Show the Engineers having to scrape eggs off the hulls of their juggernauts(like barnacles)

Show the Engineers encountering and battling something (not shown)......

Cut to: The Prometheus travelling at light speed.

Space telescopes(or deep space probes) have identified a large superstructure near the edge of the Milk Way.

Peter Weyland will not miss this event!

the Prometheus arrives at the alien structure finding thousands of derelict Juggernauts orbiting the gateways power source(a black hole)....David thinks it's Hard to say if they were returning or trying to leave the galaxy?

Weyland insists they must now explore the alien structure.....

 

I Raptus

Oct-18-2019 2:55 PM

MonsterZero love your premise!! Ambiguous, dark and it raises the threat. Nice one

 

MonsterZero

Oct-18-2019 5:00 PM

Thanks I Raptus!

I think the idea of an infested galaxy and the Engineers opening a portal to it, Then having to shut it to keep out the 'devil', could work. (it's a portal to hell trope...but I don't think the audience would mind?)

Who knows what terrors they brought back...the xenomorph might be the least of their worries.

Wonder if David could restart/open the gate?

I don't want the big baddie to be AI either...more cosmic horror. tougher to pull off correctly...especially without Giger. :-(

 

 

I Raptus

Oct-18-2019 9:04 PM

An infected galaxy is a great idea. I also liked your idea about eggs having to be scrapped from their hulls, it just shows how infected that galaxy has become!.

A bit like Event Horizon where the ship returns from Hell and was witness to god know what horrors - it returned disturbed and twisted. Its a terrifying idea

Gavin

Oct-18-2019 10:58 PM

Alien style opening credits, background rotating through space finishing on a planet. Planet's surface is uber hostile, barren and lifeless (like LV-223, but with skeletons everywhere). Zoom in on an animal skull which gets picked up by a gloved hand. Then show a Juggernaut leaving the planet. Inside, the Juggernaut looks shiny and new (like in Prometheus) as within one of the vessels 'arms' the hand places the skull in a container on a shelf, a shelf full of other containers, each with something unique inside them (one of which will be an insect). Focus back on the skull to see some black liquid moving inside the skull.

Earth, mid 21st century. A Weyland Corp satellite picks up a strange signature in the depths of the Pacific Ocean. Zoom in from orbit to see dozen of ships arranged in a circle. Onboard one ship a crew enters a submersible and descends towards the source. Due to terrain, the crew has to 'land' the sub at a distance and climb the terrain underwater toward the source of the signal, whereby they discover a Juggernaut. The crew approach one of the three vaginal entrances, which are closed, but suck them inside where it is dry and the air is breathable. They explore the Juggernauts cargo hold, which is empty before ascending to the cockpit, complete with a pilot. They presume the pilot is dead but when it moves in its chair one of the crew overreacts and kills the pilot. Examining the pilot the crew remove its helmet to reveal a C'Thulu-like head. Noticing a flashing squidgy button on the Pilots chair the crew activates an Orrery (like David did) showing them something emanating from one of three moons around a gas giant.

Transition to said, some years later as a Weyland Corp vessel approaches it; LV-426. The crew (same as before) land and venture towards the derelict Juggernaut and finding it's pilot dead. However, they notice the interior of the juggernaut is different from that of the Juggernaut on Earth (and different from what the Juggernaut looked like in the opening scene). The team split up alone to cover more ground as the leads stay in the cockpit. The lead characters activate the chairs holo-ghost recording showing the pilot awakening and struggling yet failing to leave its chair, and then while trying to break free of its suit the recording shows some smoke coming from the platform, where there is now a hole. Through the hole we see one of the crew without a helmet walking towards something unseen, but shown to be under a layer of blue mist. As the leads continue to watch the recording which shows the dead piot being suffocated by a spider-like parasite (Facehugger)we see elsewhere in the Juggernaut another lone crew member discover a strange dessicated corpse, but as they approach it the corpse attacks and kills them. Back in the cockpit, the leads watch as a snake-like creature bursts through the pilot's chest, ending the recording while the crew member in the cargo hold meets the same fate and the awakened corpse (the pilot born Alien) begins stalking the crew.

Fight for survival. More deaths. Alien portrayed as being more cunning and devious. Pilot born ALien killed on LV-426, but the crew is unaware of other Alien which stows on board their ship as they leave. After failing to vent it into space (re-imagining of Alien airlock scene) and a few more deaths, but with no means to escape the lone survivor warns Weyland Corp about the Alien and self destruct the ship killing themselves and the Alien.

Inferences...

#1 - Goo inside skull contaminates Juggernaut and creates the eggs and the blue-laser mist.

#2 - the goo, inferred to be remnants of the Alien, devasted the planet in the opening scene.

#3 - The container show the pilots are benevolent collectors and their vessels are arks.

#4 - The insect in the pilot's collection is suggesting the Queen Alien is a variant from the goo infecting the insect.  

#5 - The pilots (Space Jockeys) are not human or our creators.

#6 - The devastated world is unknown, and though not the Alien homeworld, remains a mystery.

 

Leto

Oct-19-2019 3:20 AM

MonsterZero, wow, just wow! Very epic and dark.

MonsterZero

Oct-19-2019 7:15 AM

Thanks Leto!

I'd like to think that the dwarf galaxy is facehugging the Milky Way! A truly epic scale face hugger/egg pod. 

Shaw and David realize it's probably too late to save the patient(Milky Way)...the seed has been planted.

 

Shaw finds there was a quarantine shield that surrounds the alien gateway...it no longer operates..they are unsure when it last worked?( The Engineers were smart enough to stop/scan anything dangerous coming from another galaxy)

 

Capt. Janek and Vickers don’t think it’s a good idea to board the monstrous alien gateway ...The talk of restarting is just insane. There are heated arguments,...most aboard are for leaving, some for its destruction.

Vickers and Janek hatch a plan to disable David and take control from Peter Weyland...If it comes to that.

They find the Gateway is also a decontamination site...sterilizing the vessels returning from the other galaxy.

Peter Weyland wonders just what in the other galaxy was so valuable that they would take such a risk?

 

Weyland staring into the void: “It has always been calling to me...Always”

Janek snaps Vickers neck as she is trying to implement their ship takeover. Janek has also heard the calling.

Later ….With the gateway opened...  they decide to make the jump to LEO A...David estimates it will take 300 years to reach the outer rim of the dwarf ...using a juggernaut(scorpion design..or something giger esque) the remaining crew of the Prometheus (or whatever it would be called in this version) make the jump………..

In this version Peter Weyland  appears 40-50 years old, even though he is twice that....he has been modifying his aging(the Alien universe has FTL and anti grav....you would assume they have some anti-aging tech?)

 

 

MonsterZero

Oct-19-2019 7:27 AM

'depths of the Pacific Ocean'

Nice one Gavin...and I could see James Cameron wanting to film that!

All of humanity (buildings/bones/plastic/etc...)will be scrubbed from the face of the Earth in a million years or so.....so I could envision a cuthulu race who setting up shop on Earth millions of years ago.

BigDave

Oct-20-2019 2:25 PM

I have noticed quite a Few Actually would carry on with quite a Number of Elements from Prometheus with Gavin being the ONLY one for a Clean Slate...  Interesting.

@Leto

What you describe is NOT too far off John Spaights drafts Alien Engineers/Genesis, just with a Few Tweaks... Mainly in that the Scarabs/Goo would be Obtained from the Xenomorph.  Your not alone as i would think a Majority would have Preferred more of a Spaights work than Prometheus, and i think most seem to be more Interested in the Engineers Technology and their Current Agenda as opposed to say too much about their History/Fall and Ancient Chariots of the God Shenanigans.  Which i think for some would be getting to be Too Much a Distraction from ALIEN which i think a lot of Fans had expected the Prequels to be more connected to ALIEN, as opposed to becoming more Disconnected to ALIEN.

@MonsterZero

Thats some Interesting Ideas about other DIMENSIONS, and indeed we had seen such things like this with for Example the Movie Event Horizon which indeed gives a Hubris of attempting to OPEN/USE a Worm Hole to Travel Further in Space... only they OPEN UP a Gate Way to another Hell Dimension.

I think a Number of Fans had Expected something more LOVECRAFTIAN than what Prometheus had given us.

One of Lovecrafts Stories was From Beyond which also had been adapted to a Movie in 1986 the premise of this and Lovcrafts Story was about Hubris of Unlocking Access to other Dimensions where those Scientists end up Opening a Portal to Many Horrors, and they even MUTATE the Scientists.

So MonsterZero your idea is somewhat similar to FROM BEYOND...  Now i mentioned this in this Thread THE ENGINEERS: THE VERGE OF GODHEAD where i discussed the Original Idea that Jon Spaights had pitched Alien 01 The Master Narrative

The Engineers attempt to Transcend to Godhead was a attempt to Transform Themselves to Multi Dimensional beings without Physical Form and so this is VERY much Lovecraftian and like what you point MonsterZero....

In his Alien 01 The Master Narrative had the Engineers Achieved their Objective or in Hubris what Horrors could they have Unleashed or Became?

So at Jon Spaights Pitch there was some Lovecraftian Ideas that just got Down-played by the Time the Drafts began.

@Gavin

Its Interesting to offer something as a Complete Change from what Spaights had laid down that Evolved to PrometheusIF/WHEN we heard say 10 Years ago we would get a ALIEN PREQUEL i am sure what we have at the Moment is NOT what most would have expected.

The Discovery of a Relic, a Ship that is Connected to the Space Jockey that is LOST at Sea is Interesting. Its a idea that could be Evolved.... such as it think the detection of a Signal we would have to ASK... how come it was NOT detected before?

So you could have instead a Downed Satellite, or Ship (Ocean or Space or Air Ship) that has Crashed in the Ocean and During the Recovery Mission they THEN would detect the Signal or Spot something Buried at Sea.

Or even we have a Archeological Team that feel they have FINALLY managed to locate ATLANTIS and they do indeed Discover a Buried at Sea Long Lost ANCIENT CITY.... which could then be connected to the Space Jockey Race...  Maybe this Atlantis has a Derelict Ship left behind?

I think if we went such a Route as these or what you had Suggested we would have to clear up that there is NO WAY to obtain a Xenomorph or maybe also Technology from this Lost City/Ship which means the ONLY option would be LV-426 but Certainly having this Under Water Discovery being what leads to LV-426 is Interesting.

Maybe we could Combine what you suggest with MonsterZero and my Two Cents on both?

So that we have a Atlantis Lost City or Star Port that was some Ancient Gate Way, that was LOST or was DESTROYED/SANK on Purpose...   For a Good Reason that any would be Adventurers would soon Discover to a Great Hubris, this Place should NOT have been Discovered.

It would be a bit of a HP Lovecraft meets Stargate Atlantis, meets ALIEN... but then Prometheus was basically a bit of Star Gate, minus much of HP Lovecraft and Toned Down ALIEN.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Oct-20-2019 5:04 PM

@BigDave

I absolutely would not go down the 'opening another dimension' in my story. it stays in this dimension/universe. 

 

My portal/gateway/Fast Travel Gateway is strictly for faster travel...since it's 810,000 light years(to LEO A) ...I figured the Engineers/aliens would want something quicker.

Peter Weyland opening the FT Gateway doesn't instantly bring hoards of aliens/eggs into the milky way. The monsters/eggs in the other galaxy would still have to find their own way(attached to the hull of a spacecraft or something).           ((Peter Weyland is taking a HUGE gamble that the FT Gateway in LEO A will work and is able to return them just as fast! Can't imagine being stuck in an infested galaxy 810,000 ly from home....that's like a 40,000 year trip in the Prometheus.))

In my story the Engineers are not the Space Jockey race..... they have been reduced to cult slaves.

I'm lazy so I just used the crew from Prometheus (and the Engineers).....but I would clean the slate if giving the chance. 

 

 

Gavin

Oct-20-2019 11:43 PM

Further to my suggested prequel reboot...

The idea would be to use the mysterious black goo, but have it so that thousands/millions of years ago it infected the derelict Juggernaut making it look the way it did, fusing the pilot to his chair, creating the blue-laser mist and spawning thousands of eggs in the Juggernauts lower decks (as well as a few uniquely different eggs in one of the derelicts arms).

The thought process being, that...

Like the Alien the black goo needs a host, and with the derelict Juggernaut, it used it to create a battery farm of Alien eggs while also learning aspects of the Space Jockeys technology and adopting elements of it, such as the mechanical elements.

Thus, to clarify... The Jockey left an (undisclosed) world with a sample of the black goo for its ark collection and set off on a long journey and entered hypersleep in his chair. Some extended time later the Jockey wakens to find his suit fused to his chair, his vessel infected, and a horde of eggs in his ship's lower decks, which he falls victim too and is forced to set down on LV-426, send his SOS/warning signal and die.

The Juggernaut on Earth is another Jockey that has been watching and studying us, albeit hidden at the bottom of the Pacific ocean. The inference being that they are benevolent watchers and collectors, or preservationists. We find its vessel, also filled with collected samples of Earthborn life, accidentally kill him and then learn of the signal coming from LV-426. The Juggernaut on Earth self destructs, forcing us to venture to LV-426 to investigate the signal of which our technology cannot pick up (at that time) in the hope of salvaging some Jockey tech. Of course, we are unaware of the fate that befell the Jockey on LV-426, and the deadly creature responsible.

MonsterZero

Oct-21-2019 6:08 AM

 'he falls victim too and is forced to set down on LV-426'

 

I've never been a fan of the Space Jockey crashing on LV-426....he must have been in the system(near the moon)on purpose?

I could see an auto pilot taking him to the nearest habitable moon/planet in case of an emergency(his death)...but an auto pilot would probably just fly the ship back to base.

It make sense if the SJ is on lv-426 for the pyramid/temple/sacrifice or something like the original script.

Gavin

Oct-21-2019 6:38 AM

@ MonsterZero,

The whole pyramid thing I would actually transpose onto the planet where the Jockey inadvertently discovers the black goo. Maybe the Pyramid or something within it could be akin to the Dead Space black marker idea, with this and other similar markers on planets throughout the galaxy/universe either containing the black goo or the knowledge to create it.

Does Earth or Mars have such a marker?

BigDave

Oct-21-2019 2:37 PM

Sorry MonsterZero ;)

I understand you had included Star Gate/Portals as a means to Travel from Galaxy to a Galaxy, i should had mentioned that what i was on about is the Possibility of using such Gates have the Potential to Bring back Horrors from other Dimensional Planes?

But i understand your idea is about a Particular Galaxy that would be a Harbinger of some Horrors, that would also be just as Interesting a Rogue Galaxy!  As Leo A does-not behave like how Galaxies are Supposed to and so to Explore it as some Galactic Horror (Galaxy) under some Intelligent Control would be Interesting.

Thats NO Galaxy... Its a SPACE STATION lol

"In my story the Engineers are not the Space Jockey race..... they have been reduced to cult slaves."

That would WORK as in Part its the Idea i was having Years Ago about how to Introduce another Layer, and HR Gigers Mural for ALIEN was the basis for drawing me to this, with the Themes of Prometheus too of course ;)

@Gavin

Thanks for adding more Detail, i Totally get you now... i have to say thats Interesting..  Exploring the Space Jockey as a Benevolent Race who would go around the Galaxy to Study Worlds and Collect Samples.

Forgive me if i Misread or Interpret this wrong... you are Suggesting that this Species (The on on LV-426) had been around just as the other had (on Earth) and it had came across some World where it came across the Black Goo or Similar, decided to Study this and take it on-board and what we have is some CONTAMINATION where this Substance had leaked or something and it had Infected some of the Organisms the ARK ship was carrying and this IN-TURN had Mutated those Organisms to then Turn them into Various Eggs?

Think this is Plausible to a Extent, as far as HOW the Black Goo/Pathogen could INFECT Life... 

For Example if we look at the Covenant and Imagine what we have is a SHIP that carries Human Embryos but where Each are Connected to something to Sustain them.. which can have something introduced to then Speed Up the Growth of them... so like this image.

IF the Black Goo/Pathogen was to Infect the Pipes that sustain these Embryo's then they could be TURNED into something Horrific...

So if your idea is Similar as in the Space Jockey Keep Records of Various Organisms.. (be they alive or remains) then having something ALIEN that INFECTS these and Mutates them to Produce Eggs or Mutates something that then would LAY EGGS... i think that Actually could have worked ;)

I think when we look at the Concept Work for Prometheus as far as Earlier Drafts, we do get the Picture that the Engineers had encountered something, something Plant Like, which we could then WONDER was this something they had OBTAINED their Sacrificial Goo from?  Or something they had used the Goo on and it Created something Unexpected?

I think there are a number of ways we could have gone about the Origins and who the Space Jockey are.

I will get back here later or Tomorrow with what in PART my idea to expand the Engineers would have been, but it Centers Around this!  And i think even if we IGNORE the Prequel Prometheus i still think that HR Gigers ideas and Concepts should have been the way to go.. ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Oct-21-2019 5:40 PM

No problem BigDave!   It's a wonder anyone can understand half the fan fiction junk I scrawl. ;-)

@Gavin

'Does Earth or Mars have such a marker?'

 

Mars maybe.......find one buried under a sand dune .....or in a martian cave system.

Earth....Without a Space Jockey timeline........The marker could have subducted into the Earth's mantle long ago or just be overrun with vegetation? 

Gavin

Oct-21-2019 9:43 PM

@ BigDave,

Let me be more explicit...

The world visited by the Space Jockey in the opening scene would be a world that has been devastated, wiped out by an Alien infestation caused by said marker. The SJ takes a skull of one of the former inhabitants and places it among his collection of other organisms and relics aboard his Juggernaut and leaves the planet.

The SJ then enters hypersleep while in his flight suit as the Juggernaut goes FTL on a long, long journey (maybe between galaxies). Unknown to the SJ is that the skull he collected has a black goo substance inside it. This goo is identical to what we have seen with one addition, it is alive. The goo breaks free from the skull, and the container the skull is in and infects the actual Juggernaut mid FTL - the bone like corridors, the blue-laser mist, the merging of SJ flight suit and its chair, the eggs; all because of the goo directly infecting the Juggernaut, the vessel itself.

The eggs in the cargo hold are NOT formed from the goo infecting organisms on board the ship they are a manifestation of the goo itself, they are pure, unfiltered. However, in the arm of the Juggernaut some eggs are formed from infecting an insect creature stored in the collection there, thus clarifying through inference (???) that the Alien in Alien and those in Aliens and afterward are not the same.

Beyond the narrative, other ideas I would include would be...

#1 - The Aliens POV would be similar to that of the Necromogers in Chronicles of Riddick, showing that while blind the Alien can sense its environments contours through echo-location, as well as the electric signals of the human body and the sound of our hearts and blood pumping around our bodies.

#2 - When hurt the Alien would repair itself using both organic and inorganic matter. For example, Alien gets shot and part of its head is missing. The Alien rips out someone's intestines and some wires and cables, placing them atop each other, vomits on them and then takes the slowly melting together intestines and cables and slaps them on its head. The 'stuff' once touching the head takes on the form of the missing parts of the Aliens head, as though its injury never happened.

#3 - The emancipated Alien, having been on LV-426 for thousands or millions of years went into an uber-hibernation, awakening once it heard, smelt and sensed the human crew. Its behavior would initially be cautious and about self-preservation until one of the crew gets facehugged, by which point the SJ-born Alien's behavior would become more aggressive.

BigDave

Oct-26-2019 8:22 AM

I get you now, having the Derelict become infected with something is Interesting, Certainly could explain the Difference in Aesthetic compared to Prometheus, but when looking at a some what COMPLETE reboot then the Derelict could always had been as it appeared in ALIEN.

But having it Infected to explain some of its Aesthetic is Interesting.  Its something that had been debated on here before after Prometheus (could the Black Goo Contaminate and Effect the Actual Ship).

I think its Interesting in also how we get to LV-426 in your idea, as that is ONE area that has to be covered, otherwise its left down to Discovering the SIGNAL (which was done in ALIEN) or ending up on/by LV-426 by Pure Coincidence.  Jon Spaights Tackled this via the Discovery of Clues on Earth pointing to Potentially Mankind Origins which lead us to that System.   With your idea Gavin it by-passes the WHOLE Visitation by Gods, and replaces it with some more ALIEN and Unconnected Race with clues from the Downed Ship on Earth, that point towards LV-426.

So this covers how they would not by Pure Coincidence end up on LV-426 (they as in Humans) i think a HURDLE with exploring a ALIEN Species who are NOT connected to Mankind, is the Communication, would they cominuate with Humans, or do they not have a way of doing so and its NOT needed?  On one hand this would keep them ALIEN and a Mystery, but then on the other when/if you then further explore this Space Jockey Race in Future and they Interact with their kind, do we get Sub-Titles and IF-NOT then its a case of how much Depth can you delve into their Species?

For a First Movie i think its not needed, we see so many Movies that do-not need the ALIEN Species being able to Talk to Us, for it to work.  Independence Day for example if they removed the Scene where the Alien Communicated via a Human Scientist (Dr. Brackish Okun) would it had really effected the Movie/Plot?

So its only if we try and look more into the History of the Space Jockey and their Agenda that maybe thats when more is needed? 

With your idea i am more drawn to them being the Footnote to show that via Consequences of Collecting a Infected Skull that leads to the Creation of the Eggs, and so would it be that any Further Exploration of that Plot would be about the Xenomorph and to NOT explore these Space Jockey and WHY/WHERE they go, as far as Collecting Samples of Various Life-Forms?

I guess to some DEGREE... giving answers to HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs got their is what some Fans want, and then maybe that leaving WHO the Space Jockey was and their History/Agenda etc should remain a MYSTERY... because he was a Enigma and exploring them could end up doing a Disservice to the Mystery.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Oct-26-2019 9:12 AM

This MURAL is what i would have based the Exploration of the Space Jockey about, what this shows me is to INDICATE that the Space Jockey is a Space Suited Race who would Self Sacrifice themselves to Pro-Create the Horrors from those Eggs.

To me it also indicates that the SHIP is connected to those Eggs, it Shares the same Aesthetic if you would, the MURAL seems to indicate to me that the Eggs are Created by the SHIP and form from Tiny Worms that then Attached to a Surface and then Eggs grow from them.

Funny enough this is HOW it was that HR Giger and envisioned the Egg Creation, that the Cargo Hold would Produce them from Bio-Mechanical like Pregnant Bellies.

The Mural was to be placed above the Sections where these Eggs were Stored (above the Bio-Mechanical Devices that would Create the Eggs).

HR Gigers Concepts for the Face Hugers indicated these beings were BALD HUMANOIDS and so that was not a Problem for me, his Space Jockey Concept also looking more like a Bio-Mechanical being or Suit.

But to me those beings looked like that was forming a Symbiotic Relationship with the Ship/Cargo their must have been some Benefit for them, but i was drawn to some other Species being behind the Ships and Eggs, and that the Space Jockey is merely performing a Purpose a Sacrifice, for some Reason.

The Prometheus Themes could FIT with this, as far as this Species could be the Engineers, we could have another Species as the Space Jockey, or the Engineer are a Sub-Creation of the Space Jockey Created to Replace them as far as the Sacrificial Purpose.

I am drawn to ANOTHER Species or Entity/Player who would have those Humanoids Perform Sacrifices, but this is done by a Minority of them, in return for something of Benefit to them.... so it would be like the Engineers Teaching Mankind our Ancient Ways and giving us LIFE on the Condition that we offer Sacrifices in that some of us would be Required as part of the Bargain, to be used for another Purpose for the Masters.

So i foresee something above the Engineers/Space Jockey that would be using the Engineers/Space Jockey for that Purpose.

I conclude this because it seems the Mural of HR Giger seems to make a Connection between the Ship and Cargo, so maybe the Space Jockey are NOT the Higher Player in this... 

It allows for the Introduction to a KEY PLAYER that is more Lovecraftian, and maybe use the UNUSED elements of the Starbeast Plot.

I think what is also Interesting is the Mural as far as the EYE which the Worm/Egg seems to come from is pretty much like the The Eye of Providence  and so could have some GOD-LIKE connection.

What i was thinking was to FIT with Prometheus in Multiple Layers of Creation, Sub-Creation and Rebellion and so IF i add this to Prometheus Plot... then it could be the Engineers were Sub-Created by the Space Jockey to replace them in their Sacrificial Tasks.... but the Engineers Rebelled, had turned the Organisms against them.. or just broke away and Rebelled and the Space Jockey attempted to use a Organism on them...

Engineers then Sub-Create Mankind...  once we become Rebellious a Group of Engineers then attempt to Re-Engineer the Eggs to something different, the Deacon, the Xenomorph.... were as the Original Ships could have created something DIFFERENT... but similar.

But there was so many ways to try and connect the HR Giger/Starbeast ideas to the Prometheus Engineers, that could branch off, so it was never a 1, 2, 3 but a 1 a,b,c, 2 a,b,c and so it would get bit Complex trying to get it all to FIT.

So in CONTEXT to a Reboot of Sorts i would still go back to the HR Giger Mural only we dont have to have the Occupants of the Ship/Suits being so Human Looking.

But still involved in some Covenant/Symbiotic Relationship on behalf of something VERY Lovecraftian.

The Xenomorph either a Result of those Space Jockey's deciding to Experiment with the Creation Process of the Eggs....  or that the Xenomorph is the Outcome on a Human....

And the Intended Host would have Produced something Different.  I always would have considered exploring that Chest Buster in the Mural and what it could have became!

Maybe like this Carlos Huante Concept?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Oct-31-2019 10:30 AM

I think going back to the OT...

Then i would say that MOST did-not like the Direction that Alien Covenant had taken, but going back Prior i think that about 30-40% only had a Few Bones to pick with Prometheus.

When looking prior to that then the WHOLE how do you do a Prequel and have the Humans involved was a STICKING POINT...   The Root Cause for Spaights to offer the Chariots of the Gods like PLOT.... however such a PLOT had made the Space Jockey Tale something that was NOT really ALIEN enough... for quite a % of people.

I think with Gavin, you had shown that there are other ways to SET-UP a Plot to HOW-COME any Humans would End Up at a Location that is Connected to the Space Jockey and Eggs...  without it being a Simple Accidental/By Coincidence or a First Discovery of the SOS.

I think another STICKING POINT would be how ALIEN is the Space Jockey, and then it would be HOW/IF they can communicate with Each Other and more so the Humans.

Then this is NOT so much a Sticking Point as with the Predator Franchise our Alien Hunters do-not seem to communicate with us, but can Mimic/Repeat what we say, so thats in effect like taking a Amazon Rain Forrest Native who has NO outside Contact with other Cultures and dropping him off to say CHINA and then how they would Communicate.

But then and i guess the same applies with the Predators, if you wish to continue to explore a Alien Intelligent Species and cover their Agenda and History then does having a Language Barrier become a Problem?   You could have Sub-Titles between say Predators interacting with each other, and so the same could be done with the Space Jockey Race....

But then its HOW does any Interaction come with said Alien Race and Humans?

Maybe there is NO Need or its BEST to not really explore in Depth the Space Jockey Race?   I mean would Fans want to Discover more about the Predators.. or are we Content that this Species just go around HUNTING different Species for Sport/Trophy with no other Depth apart from that this is Seen as a Honor and Coming of Age Ritual for that Species.

In Closing..... 10+ Years ago i guess none of us really would Fathom that the Space Jockey Species had any Interaction with Mankind, or maybe any Intention to do so.

What we had is what at that Time was considered a ALIEN Species who had that Cargo of Eggs and became Infected, we NEVER knew WHY or for what Purpose...

It was indicated by RS back 10+ Years ago and longer that what we had here was a SHIP that was Carrying Bio-Logical Warfare...

so then we had to ASK...

*Did they Engineer/Create these Bio-Weapons?

*Did they discover these Organisms and intended to use them for Bio-Logical Weapons?

Then it was a case of for WHAT Reason? WHO had they had any Conflict with, what other Race? Or was it a Conflict Between themselves?

THIS ^^^ would be the Main thing to Explore if we wanted to explore the Space Jockey more, but then this is a Tricky Subject as far as HOW, because its a case of is this CONFLICT something that is LONG GONE or some place FAR FAR away and so without Flash Backs, then exploring this in Depth/Real Time is TRICKY as far as HOW do you Bring the Humans into play!

I think HENCE is why we had Jon Spaights Plot (Chariots of Gods) to get around such things...

I think that its a MAJOR HURDLE when we explore a ALIEN Species from a Franchise in any Origins/Agenda Capacity and then HOW does that interact with Humanity.

By that we could take The THING... its ok doing a Prequel that shows HOW/WHEN the Organism was Dug Up from the Ice.

However.... to take it further back and ask things like.

*What is The THING'S Origin, where did it come from?  Is it a Natural Organism, a Bio-Weapon?

*Was that Flying Saucer its OWN Ship, or a Ship of another Race that had Encountered The THING.. and if so then WHO was this Unfortunate Species and HOW did they come into Contact with The THING?

And the Problem becomes.... HOW do you cover those Questions and have it relate to Humans?

Should such Details had REMAINED a Secret?

Or do you offer a SIMPLE route, which would be to have a Movie (does not have to be Prequel) where they re-discover the Flying Saucer and Manage to Activate some Record System that gives some Indication of WHAT happened, and HOW that Ship then ENDED UP heading towards Earth?

So in CONTEXT to ALIEN what i am saying is that maybe, a Prequel should have (does-not have had to be a Prequel) but should we have had a Movie where they go to the Derelict and Explore it more...

Activated some Record Device that would Indicate what the Space Jockey Fate was (Pretty Obvious) but then also Records that would indicate this was a Bio-Logical Warfare Mission, maybe even indicating a STAR Location to the Intended TARGET that could be explored in a Future Movie... or from WHERE the Derelict had Originated.

Such a Plot could then take us to another World where we would get some more Clues to HOW the Xenomorph was obtained... such as Engineered, or Discovered as it was.

And so to Negate the Reason to Explore in Depth WHO the Space Jockey was and WHAT conflict they was involved in...   simply showing that the RACES involved had been LONG GONE... Tens of Thousands of Years ago.

Showing Remains of a Powerful Race had attempted the Destruction of the Space Jockey, who had came to USE/CREATE the Xenomorph as a means to Combat a Race who had more Superior Fire Power, leaving the Space Jockey Race having to Resort to the USE of a Horrid Bio-Weapon...

So we only get clues via the Space Jockey World, that is MAYBE Destroyed by some Conventional Weapon (Nuke, Energy Weapon) and the Aggressors either fell Victim to the Xenomorph after a Successful Mission by the Space Jockey Race and so the Aggressors World is NOW a Xenomorph HIVE!

Or the Aggressors after Defeating the Space Jockey Race, had came across their Planned Bio-Weapon Cache and taken some of this to their HOME-WORLD to Study and see how they can put it to USE in their Conquest...

But the HUBRIS being that they FELL PREY to the Bio-Weapon and it Destroyed their World/Race!

Such a PLOT would keep a lot of Enigma and Mystery about the Space Jockey Race and the Aggressors they had a Conflict with.

It WOULD-NOT matter about showing Interaction between Humans and these Races, or even giving away Details and Dialog between these Races.

We could have some Flash Back Scenes... but we dont need FULL Details about the Races, Culture etc..

What we would GET from this is WHY/HOW and maybe WHEN the Xenomorph was Obtained/Created by the Space Jockey and that this Act of Desperation by this Species for Defense, had Defeating a Aggressor but also had been a Downfall for their Species...

And Mankind are NOW left with the Consequences of a Marooned Failed Mission (Derelict) and the Discovery of a Another World (or Few) that this Bio-Weapon had Ravaged!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Oct-31-2019 10:42 PM

I have a problem imagining the Juggernaut carryng the same eggs that were found on LV 426. The scale is wrong.

I like the idea of the eggs being like cosmic barnacles of sorts though.

Maybe the ship just landed on top of the big nest as Giger originally imagined. Maybe LV 426 is the Xeno planet or moon that was asleep and awakened after the Juggernaut landed on its hive. Then it went dormant again until the Alien crew came along?

Gavin

Oct-31-2019 11:37 PM

@ dk,

I once believed as you did until I read this... Are the eggs on LV-426 still there, page 3 (read posts by BigDave and daliens).

Ingeniero

Nov-01-2019 5:58 PM

1) What Time-Line do you set the Movie in, also include any Flash Back Scene Time-Lines?

 

Early 1800s and Engineer historical timeline based on the timeline in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.

 

2) What Location do you set the Movie on/in, back to LV-426, a near by Moon/Planet (like was done with LV-223) or another Place in the Galaxy? maybe also HOW FAR away does this take Place?

 

LV-223, Earth, Planet 4, a juggernaut on the botton of the Pacific Ocean sounds really cool (it does sound like a Cameron movie).

 

3) Do you go for a Direct Prequel where you explain what happened to the Derelict, and then do you DO-SO in a Chronological Route, or Provide Solid Clues/Flash Backs? OR do you infer Clues that would drawn Fans to WHAT likely happened without having to Visit or Show the Derelict?

 

3 Prequel route with changes to what is seen in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant with the remaining prequel being the Alien: Covenant Origins novel made into film including the decades before the novel took place on Earth.

 

“Bodies were ripped apart, exploded, sundered, until dismembered skeletons began to pile up against the sides of buildings like white foam from a wave. A tsunami of blood ran down first one street, then another.”

 

Alien: Covenant Origins Prologue

 

The above description in the novel is somewhat similar to what MonsterZero describes above with the xenomorph infestation on a planet.  The book doesn’t specifically say “xenomorph” here but the end product (blood tsunami) sounds the same.

 

4) Do you explore the Space Jockey, and to what Extent and Detail, do you see any ALIVE Space Jockey's? How Deep do you explore their Agenda and History or Set up this for a Sequel?  

 

The Space Jockey is still left a mystery in the prequel films in order to remain that way in Alien.

 

Do you have them Communicate with Each Other and Provide Sub Titles?  Do they/can they Communicate with Humans and HOW? N/A

 

5) Do you offer a Direct Answer to WHERE/HOW those Eggs had Originated from?  And what the Connection the Space Jockey has with them?

 

MonsterZero’s idea of scraping eggs off the sides of juggernauts tends to reconcile with the Giger art where the eggs are generates in a wall…I love that idea as well as the Engineer transportation hub. 

The Space Jockey is still a preferred mystery but to see something hard to understand such as Space Jockey tech or Engineers attacked in some way like described above would be preferable. 

 

6) Do you introduce the Xenomorph, or do you introduce something a bit Different?

 

I’m going to agree with Leto on the need for more Neomorph time.

 

7) How do you introduce Human Characters because they surely would be NEEDED, and so its HOW do any Humans END-UP at a Location that would then allow us to Answer some of those Questions left from ALIEN?

 

Alien: Genesis

Mary Godwin, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Lord Byron and his personal physician, John William Polidori were trapped inside a villa due to weather. They spent their time crafting scary stories to tell one another in the Summer of 1816 and from these stories came Frankenstein and The Vampyre

The opening scene in the villa could be Mary Godwin (later Shelley) delivering Frankenstein to Percy, Lord Byron, and John with images of the Engineers flashing during her telling of the modern Prometheus tale. Percy Bysshe Shelley wrote Ozymandias in anticipation of the arrival of the Rameses II statue once the British Museum announced the acquisition and schedule for delivery in 1818.  

The opening of the prequel (Alien: Genesis) would close with visuals consisting of moving the statue from Egypt all the way to placing it at the British Museum and the unveiling to the public while hearing Ozymandias with a flashback to when the statue was new, magnificent…then fade to the relic in the museum the statue had become. 

This approach would bring in the references/concepts from literature early, later to be reinforced that were somewhat lost in Prometheus and Alien: Covenant.  

 

 

Scenes Cut, Scenes Restored, Changes

 

Prometheus

The changes to the Prometheus content would be:

a)the Fifield and Milburn scenes alone in the pyramid and the Deacon born would be cut for time and reduced to short COMNET feeds uploaded from the helmets and the Lifeboat,

b) the ending from Prometheus would be the same ending except for a corporate rep shown reviewing the CLASSIFIED COMNET feeds from the Prometheus Mission and seeing what happened to Fiflield and Milburn.  

 

This approach would reconcile with how the company compartmentalized information seen in the novels and other films.  The Synthetic White Noise described in the novels fits well with what is seen in Prometheus, Alien, Aliens in regards to communication issues.

 

“Andrea Rollins didn’t care in the least about white noise or interference. She did, however, pay a great deal of attention to the signal embedded inside of that synthetic static.

 

Weyland-Yutani owned the patents on the devices that created that artificial signal, and on the hardware and software that could break it down into its component parts. It wasn’t a technology currently available on the market. Hers was the only computer on the ship capable of breaking down the coded information.

 

March 2497, Alien: Sea of Sorrows, page 160-161.

 

Anything out of the ordinary  on LV-223, LV-426, Planet 4, and the security cameras on Fury 161 would certainly be tagged and scrambled only for Weyland-Yutani select computers to decode such as seen with Andrea Rollins.  She ran a goon-squad on LV-178 and provided great healthcare to them if they came back up to the ship wearing a facehugger. 

Showing this form of encryption, management with COMNET is a way to showcase Weyland-Yutani Corporation and it’s competitors' technology as well.

 

 

Alien: Covenant

The following changes would be made to Alien: Covenant:

a) The Crossing would be edited and inserted as flash backs where David and Walter speak outside looking over the Planet 4 city complete with the attack shown while David is quoting Ozymandias,

b) Walter would be notified of the destructive event while in the garden and not the colonists chamber,

c) the Synthetic/Construct kiss would be cut,

d) the juggernauts scene cut from Alien: Covenant where Sergeant Lope shoots a flair below would be restored, and

e) the Neomorph would kill Hallett and not a throat explosion.  No one bends down to huff extrasolar spores, insulting.

BigDave

Nov-01-2019 6:14 PM

Certainly DK

This could be considered as merely a OVERSIGHT...

Indeed the PLOT (Alien) came about from Starbeast where we had a Separate Temple/Pyramid with the Eggs and when HR Giger came aboard and the Draft Changed, it was still Planned to have a Separate Egg Chamber, in which HR Giger even did some Concept for the Separate Egg Silo.

The SETS where Built.. and so they would RE-USE the Same Set but make Few Changes for the Pilot Chamber and Egg Storage Chamber.  The idea would have been to have a External Shot of a Separate Silo/Mound and where the Human Crew would be seen walking to this and Scaling it..  But Time Restraints and Budget Restrictions meant that had to be CANED and so before Shooting the Plot got Changed a little to incorporate the Cargo Hold as UNDER the Pilot Room.

And so the Status Quo then was the Egg Chamber was Part of the Derelict.

HOWEVER... anyone who sees the Movie Alone, would maybe not always 100% Conclude the Chamber was inside the Ship for a Number of Reasons.  And SCALE is one such Reason.

And so in Context to the OT.... as in if we could Re-do the Prequel Prometheus or Replace it.....

Then INDEED you could explore that the Ship is sitting ON-TOP of a Underground Egg Chamber.

The only Problem with doing this would be that any kind of Prequel that would give Answers, or a Movie set AFTER say Alien or Aliens that would go back and give Answers....  would be a Movie that would Kind-of just be doing the same as what happened in ALIEN.

Unless the Human Crew in said Movie would Discover another ENTRANCE to the Egg Chamber and maybe a Underground System... with Answers...

But this as well as having LV-426 have Multiple such Underground System of Tunnels and Chambers, would get us to WONDER... as to WHY the Company Pursue the Xenomorph via Ripley from Alien 3 on-wards.

Having their be just ONE such Cargo Compartment that is Located on the Derelict which is Destroyed after Hadleys Hope's Destruction would take care of such a Plot Hole/Conflict.

I agree with RS (back prior to 2014) in that the Derelict had left from some place else and ENDED UP on LV-426 via a Crash Landing as a Good Explanation.  Then you could explore from WHERE the Derelict had left for a Prequel... which is what Prometheus had loosely indicated.

The Discrepancy of the Size of the Cargo Hold, could just be accepted as a Oversight... but as i said with the OT as far as its Purpose.... then to go back and RE-DO a Prequel then YEAH you could indicate the Cargo Hold is Separate to the Ship... surely.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-01-2019 6:44 PM

Some Interesting Ideas and Changes there Ingeniero

The Ozymandias from Alien Covenant i interpret in relation to the Prologue, where Weyland has amassed all these Arts and Creations (inc the Piano) with the Principle being that all these MATTER NOT for when the Time of Death comes... you cant take them with you and if there is NOTHING then they can NO longer be Remembered or Appreciated by their Dead Owner.

Its about Immortality in that there are many ways you can be Immortalized,  that is in the Memory of your Generations/Off-Spring, by the Deeds or Creations you have done which inc Art/Music, by what Famous Deeds you have done... and by having Monuments and Statues Erected in your Memory.

And so in Context the Ozymandias is to indicate that even such Monuments will in TIME Fade Away and be Lost in the Sands... and so its to show that EVERY Civilization will come to a END and eventually NOTHING remains.

For Example... this could be all that Remains of New York (well similar or even LESS) in say 25'000-40'000 Years Time especially of the Earth Dies... loses its Atmosphere and becomes a Mars!

So thats kind of what i Interpret the Ozymandias quote in relation to Alien Covenant.... with the Flash Back its like David referencing that after his Actions... that all that Remains of the Engineers is their City and Monuments but that Eventually they will Disappear!

I would say that in Millions of Years Time the Earth could look more like MARS with some Remains of our Civilization....  But more so say if we was to go back say 2000-3000 years ago and the Earth suffered a Disaster that RID the Atmosphere and then those Civilizations would be LOST and only Great Monuments would remain like say the Giza Pyramids... the rest Burred by Sands!

So to PUT that in Context with the OT...  then maybe it was best to Explore the Space Jockey Race as just that.... a LONG LONG GONE.. Civilization

With only some Remains of Ancient Structures that are LONG abandoned... NO Living Space Jockey, but we get some Murals and maybe Activate a Record System (like in Prometheus) that can give some Clues and Indications of their Society but maybe keep it relevant to the Eggs.

That way as i said in another reply, you would NOT have to be Bogged Down with Details about Gods and Stuff or to Explore and show any Living Space Jockey and WHAT they was all about...

Maybe you could uncover 1-2 Alive ones in some kind of Cryo-sleep. But they Ultimately will be KILLED and that would be the END of them...... well as far as LOCALLY in the Galaxy (within say 10'000+ LY)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-01-2019 7:07 PM

But to be FAIR...

Prometheus for me was FINE... needed some Changes and i did work on a Re-Edit (which i lost) the Engineers Scale was OFF...  they was intended to be 15ft then 10ft but oh well....

There are some Aesthetic Differences too... Ship/Pilot.

What i got from Prometheus was the TALE of Creation, Sub-Creation, then HOW-MUCH knowledge and Free-Will you give your Creation, that causes them to REBEL.... and also allowing your Creations to Create/Pro-Create would be a HUBRIS.

So when talking before Alien Covenant... things were a Mystery and could have been Explored Different.

David was Created by Weyland to Serve Mankind, to replace us for a number of Tasks/Chores.... we could have the Revelation that Mankind was created for a Similar Reason by the Engineers.

We could then have it the Engineers were created by their Creators for a similar Reason too...

So we have a Similar Path repeated over and over..

Then we could go back FURTHER... to the Higher Layer of that Cake.... before the Engineers, maybe they are like Engineers.. Taller.. and then we could Explore above these Taller Beings and THIS is when things get ANCIENT like Really Ancient and TOTALLY ALIEN...

Thats HOW i was looking to explore it with my Prometheus sequel/prequel ideas...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-02-2019 7:00 AM

If  i could EXPAND on my Last Topic....

Going back 10+ Years ago then having a Announcement of a ALIEN Movie that was indicated and expected to provide some Answers to the Mystery in ALIEN... of which the Main Questions were

*WHAT was that Ship doing with those EGGS?

*WHERE did those EGGS come from?

*WHERE was the Derelict going and WHERE did it come from?

We can expand on that by exploring the Xenomorph Egg Origins..

The Secondary Mystery would be WHO is the Space Jockey, his Species, their Agenda/Purpose and WHY would they be carrying such a Horrific Organism.

By the Time we got to Prometheus, it NEVER gave any Clear Answers to all of those, Certainly not to the Level of Detail Expected...  

Fans also had become Disappointed in the Revelation that the Space Jockey was indicated as a 8ft Race of Bald Humans who had been our Creators/Gods.....   Many Expected some kind of more Alien/Lovecraft Plot and Aesthetic that close matched the Scene from ALIEN.

Some may have expected Xenomorph's but i dont think this was 100% a Problem it was more so they was NEVER replaced by anything similar....  Zombie Fifield, Face Rape Space Cobra certainly is not as Adequate as something that had more Connection to the Xenomorph, main Problem being the Engineer and Fifield completed most of the Kill Count... if this was Split between having some Neomorph like Organism then that would have been better.

The MONEY-SHOT being Dr Shaws Fetus Face Hugger (Trilobite) and its Infecting the Engineer that leads to the Chest Buster (Deacon) but not seeing it do anything... if we had a similar Organism earlier on Kill 2-3 people i think that would have Pleased Fans

So i think those things had NOT been as ALIEN as Fans Expected... but FOX felt all Fans wanted/needed was to get the Xenomorph Origins and see them back and similar... and Hence Alien Covenant but the Plot really just made the Xenomorph something FAR less ALIEN now.

And downgraded the Space Jockey (Engineers) as being insignificant and well more Weaker/Human.

I think the Problem was not really Prometheus but the Sequel.... a Different Sequel could have indicated something more ALIEN as far as the Hierarchy and Agenda above the Engineers.

But in Context to the OT....

If we was to Re-do a Prequel... i think some of Prometheus could still FIT-WELL but we need to tease and then explore in a Further Sequel something MORE ALIEN.

By that even if they RE-MADE the Prequels... i would have the Space Jockey as some Space Suit with a somewhat Human Bald Occupants and make them 10ft Tall.

But then you have something that is Above Them... something more ALIEN...

For Many Years... and i mean even WAY before the Prequels the IDEA was that the EGGS are a Bio-Weapon Created (or obtained) by the Space Jockey Race... for some Unknown Reason/Conflict.

Gigers Mural and Concepts seem to Draw me to another Conclusion....  this may appear to be say 30% we are looking at the Space Jockey Created a Ship that Produces a Bio-Weapon (Eggs) that they Self Sacrifice themselves to Procreate.... but then 70% of me is Drawn to the Same but that the Space Jockey Race are NOT the Creator of any of this, but are just some Race who are USED for this Purpose..

What do they Gain from this? and WHO is at the Top of the Chain....   THIS is where we should have gone and it could have been VERY ALIEN and Lovecraftian!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-02-2019 11:01 AM

Regarding the Derelict/Cargo i made this rough to Scale of the Pilot Chamber, Cargo Hold in Relation to Crew Height.

This is to SHOW the Minimum Size Required... i actually think the Derelict would need to STILL be a Little Larger, to the TUNE of Double the Height and Diameter and maybe Two-Three Times Width to accommodate the Cargo Hold and Full Pilot Chamber

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Nov-02-2019 5:01 PM

The picture of the beach above...Is that Heston's Planet of the Apes?  

Home run.  It is a perfect example of the Ozymandias concept with Earth's magnificent city of New York turns into driftwood buried by sand.  

As far as the topic in regards to changes made to the prequel layout, delivery....I tried to bring in the concept in early in the Alien: Genesis (Prometheus title replaced) to be reinforced later in Alien: Covenant.  

There are certainly better parts of Frankenstein to use in the narration.  I also thought it might be a better way to introduce Ozymandias' meaning to a larger audience opposed to David and Walter muttering the poem to each other in the dark and many asking "Who's Byron?...must be talking about Mary Shelley."

In the novel, David's madness is more clear.  If the audience was more familiar with Percy Bysshe Shelley's Ozymandias then the point that David got this wrong would me made with more clarity.  David barked out "Byron" when questioned by Walter on who wrote Ozymandias and this scene might have been better with the changes to the prequel opening.

The David Planet 4 images in the opening were not only put there, of course, to tie into the Ozymandias concept (of great, then not) but also to add a little mystery of seeing this early and not knowing the context until the next film.

Yes, I just like to write Ozymandias over and over.  

Ozymandias.  

 

BigDave

Nov-03-2019 5:48 PM

"The picture of the beach above...Is that Heston's Planet of the Apes? "

Yes it was.. i used to to show that After a Disaster that Wipes out LIFE on Earth, especially if we lost our Ozone/Atmosphere and the Earth became like Mars, then after 10's of Thousands of Years only a Few Larger Monuments would be seen... the Smaller could be Buried under Sand etc.

The Ozymandias fits as this really about how No Matter How Great a Person/Civilization or their Accomplishments are, and what Records/Memories are left of them and Monuments Erected its to show that eventually all these would become LOST or become Ruin....  as NOTHING will LAST Forever..

I think David Re-sites those Words when he remembers back to the Bombardment, because his Coming and Actions are WHAT will spell the END of that Great Engineer Civilization where all that remains would be their Monuments and Buildings but ONCE the Engineers are GONE... then Eventually in TIME these will become Ruin.  It also in Part Applies because this is the Dawn of David's Kingdom on that World... where he would NOW set out to Create his own WORKS.

Back to the Derelict Diagram... and in Context to the OT, well Monster Zero

It was a rough Calculation of HOW BIG the Shot of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold are in Relation to the Actual Ship Dimensions.... ASSUMING the Bulkhead/Space between the Roof of the Ship and Ceiling of the Pilot Chamber, and the Bulkhead/Space between the Floor of the Pilot Chamber and Ceiling of the Cargo Hold and Finally the Bulkhead/Space between the Floor of the Cargo Hold and Bottom of the Ship are all about 1M in Thickness.  It then ASSUMES the Shot of the Pilot Chamber we only see about 75% of its Height, and the Egg Chamber about 90% of its Height.

If so this would mean that the DERELICT would have to be about 1.75X Taller to Accommodate the Height of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold.

If these Bulkhead/Spaces between Floors/Bulkhead were 3M and the Pilot Chamber is shown as only 50-60% of its Actual Height, then the DERELICT would have to be at least TWICE as Tall to Accommodate the Height of the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo Hold.

So in Context to Monster Zero... it shows that INDEED the Cargo Hold and Pilot Chamber as far as being ON-TOP of each other would NOT FIT inside the Derelict.

That could mean as far as the OT as in to Re-Explore the Derelict or Re-do the Prequels... that this Inconsistency could be COVERED by having the Cargo Hold as Separate!

But as far as Ridley Scott and the Prequels and even ALIEN then this is just a OVERSIGHT.. and the idea/intentions are the CARGO HOLD is part of the SHIP.

I had mentioned a Few Times Before what i think was the BEST SOLUTION to this Error... one that makes the MOST SENSE to me as FAR as a Ship that is intended to Transport Deadly Bio-Weapon Eggs.

I will explain this again NEXT ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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