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Kane's Son

Kane's Son

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chli

Nov-09-2019 3:56 AM

In the Book of Genesis, Cain murders his brother Abel and for that God expels him to “East of Eden”. In Christianity, there was a belief that you inherit the Sins of the Father (Original Sin stemming from the Fall of Man). Cain had a son called Enoch.

We have had many a good discussion about the Alien (the xenomorph) and whether it takes on traits from its host. As far as I can tell, the discussions have been centred around physical traits. In Alien 3, the creature imitates some of the characteristics of a dog and runs around on four legs.

Recently I had some discussions with Michelle about her work (which I recommend you to read). She had the thesis that the xenomorph could inherit inner qualities (evil, hate, aggression etc) from its host. It’s an interesting idea.

Thomas Kane was the Executive Officer aboard the USCSS Nostromo. He was the one who got “raped” by the facehugger and eventually “gave birth” to the alien creature - Kane’s Son.

According to Xenopeadia, Kane was intelligent but later on in his medical educational career, he developed “medication addiction” and was expelled from the university. Later on, he graduated as an engineer and became a pilot.

In his working career as a pilot, his medical addiction came back and he was fired. Later, he developed alcoholism. After getting the job as Executive Officer on the Nostromo, he volunteered to be a part of the group investigating the mysterious signal on LV-426 . . .

In the Alien novelization, Kane “was less controlled in thought and action than was Dallas”. Could his psychological traits, his "sins", have been inherited by his “son”?

Can inner, psychological, qualities of the host affect what the alien creature (the xenomorph) becomes? What are your thoughts?

39 Responses to Kane's Son

Ingeniero

Nov-17-2019 1:37 PM

I believe Alien: Prototype clearly explains that Xenomorph traits are inherited from the host chli.  And, maybe, the best host for a Xenomorph is to use a host with a disease (Necromorph example).  

The sins of the father (host) manifest, mutate, and explode in the son (Xenomorph).

BigDave

Nov-19-2019 7:27 AM

"Again things in a movie need not be perfect in regards to logic"

I think Ignorant Guy this with some of what Michelle had Mentioned in her Posts are the THINGS we have to Consider the Most.... that is just as i think you have Stated a Number of Times...

It really is about the STORY and PLOT which is Driven by the Characters and so Tiny Flaws, are what we should Overlook and NOT really be Dragged into every detail, because all that Matters is the Story Arc.... and so somethings are not explained or detailed, i am NOT sure those working on the Project even give some things any LEVEL of Detail and Thought.....

We can Speculate on the Organism, the Goo, and our Speculations and Debates could go into Detail Beyond what those working on the Movie had ever thought... and our Work/Speculation can always proved to be MOOT by Virtue of the Next Movie where those working on the Project can FREELY changed Details to SUIT their Story/Plot..... for Convenience

So your point Ignorant Guy is RIGHT on the Money ;)

I think at LEAST any Future Movie could become LESS Inconsistent, because while Working on ALIEN COVENANT they had came up with a ALIEN Rule-book... and so we can only Assume that means they Finally have how A-Z connects in terms of the Pathogen, Xenomorph and other Related Organisms/Results...

But ALAS..... with Disney in Charge then if we get any Continuation or a Future Movie, then who is to say they would STICK to what ever that ALIEN Rule Book had in it...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-19-2019 7:59 AM

Regarding the Hammerpede and Black Goo, we have to Remember this is something that has Evolved, Changed and Depending on what we look at at and what Source then we could be drawn to different Conclusions...

So some Ambiguity is there if you Watch the Movie alone...  the Goo reacted in Various ways with No real Explanation (Spoon Fed on Screen), had they USED some of the Alternative Fifield Concepts then you would be drawn to something a little Different.

The Bottom Line is these are all to show what the Black Goo can do, they was (changed a bit with Fifield) to show us the Experiments and Pathogen on LV-223 has a connection to the Xenomorph on LV-426.   The whole Hammepede Scene is a bit open to Interpretation it really comes down to the Instinct of the Pathogen, and what it seemed to show in General is that what it Infects and Mutates/Evolves (Creates) becomes a HIGHLY Aggressive and a KILLING Machine.

What Michelle has attempted (forgive me if Incorrect) is to give some Deeper Purpose with the Pathogen/Monsters, other than to have be a Case of just a KILLING Machine, or Merely that is only Instinct is Survival and Procreation.

I never read too much into Milburn/Fifields Psyche in regards to that Scene, i looked at it more about HUBRIS... Milburn may be Interested in his Biology and Excited about New Species.... he allowed this Excitement to override his Common Sense (but this was a PLOT Device/Convenience to allow for the Attack Scene)  and so its a case of this DEADLY CRAP (Pathogen) does-not make Lovable Pokemen out of Infected Organisms.. a Infected Bunny Rabbit is not going to be something you want to PET ;)

I think its fine for People to want to add more depth to WHY these things are so Aggressive than just acting on Instinct..... and so in Regards to the OT... well more so the idea of Michelle's then having these Reactions be something thats Pre-Programed is very VALID especially if those who Created this INTEND it to KILL/DESTROY or if this is a Programed Safety Defense Mechanism to Eradicate those (Unintended, Meddling) who come into Contact with this stuff when they SHOULD-NOT as its NOT intended for them..

Forgive me for this Analogy if it makes little Sense or Relevance... if i could go for like a Comic Book like Story of a RACE who Create some Serum that would when Ingested Evolve them into Supermen of Sorts.... then as a Protection Defense you would Program this stuff so that it ONLY Effects your Species Genome/DNA with this GIFT... and any None-Matching Genome would instead suffer another Horrific Result.... be that Death, or some kind of Ebola like Outbreak or be Turned instead to Zombies and Pass on this Curse onto others via Attacking/Biting then Spreading this Curse.... 

In that Analogy such a Safety Measure would Insure other Species can-not Benefit from your Created Super Drug/Serum, and also so they Can-Not Study or Re-Engineer it (as its gets out of control quick) to then reap the Benefits that it would give to its Intended Creators.

But in Closing.... its Fine to look at the Hammerpeed as Intentionally Raping Milburn as it had been implied before that this is what the Face Hugger does by people who worked on ALIEN....  at that time we could Speculate this was Purely a Part of the Organisms Life-Cycle, it had to Rape its Host because this is HOW it would Procreate, and as this is a KIND of Procreation where the MOTHER of the Child to be Born (Chest Buster) has NOT given Consent to Birth and become Pregnant if you would.. with this MONSTER, then indeed this amounts to RAPE.

(In my Rework of Prometheus, i had Milburn have a Chest Buster, and showed a Killed Hammerpede had Tiny Eggs inside, to show more a Connection to the Xenomorph/Procreation Purpose also to tease said FATE to those Chest Busted Cryo Engineers).

I think its Perfectly Fine to however imply/explore that its NOT a Natural Procreative/Survival Instinct but its part of the Organisms Psyche because it Inherited it from the Basic Instinctual Psyche of the Host...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Nov-21-2019 11:37 AM

@Ignorant, "The monster is not a reptile by any means imaginable".

Right, so Millburn described it as an 'elongated reptile-like creature' for a bit of fun, I suppose. How is that materially different to my description of a "hostile reptilian form"?

I don't want compliments from anybody, thanks very much.

BigDave

Nov-22-2019 7:31 AM

Well i think thats just Millburns interpretation, and it did appear as some Space Cobra... in the Movie it appeared to more like a Eel than any Reptile...

It moved like a Serpent, but its Skin Texture was more similar to that of say a Eel or Squid Tentacle (not sucker part).  Some of the Props/Production had matched the Concept Work, where it clearly had a Segmented Body like a Worm, so it appeared as a Worm/Eel Hybrid...  Apart from the Head.

But in the Movie we dont make out any Segmented Sections.

I dont think we can really say what it is as its a ALIEN Organism, it had been Evolved/Mutated from Worms but its to the point that little % of Worm DNA remains compared to what the Pathogen had Imprinted.

The Trilobite also had a similar Aesthetic as far as its Tentacles in regards to the Hammerpedes Body.

But i dont think it really matters what we try and compare it to as what we are seeing really is a ALIEN DNA.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Nov-22-2019 8:04 AM

"Right, so Millburn described it as an 'elongated reptile-like creature' for a bit of fun, I suppose. How is that materially different to my description of a "hostile reptilian form"?"

Come on hox.  Be reasonable.  

"Hostile reptilian form" is so far away from "elongated reptile-like creature" that we can fly a juggernaut in-between them (sarcasm).

When I look at the Xenomorph, the first thing I think of is reptile (teeth like a small dinosaur, spines on the back, long tail, etc..) but that interpretation is confused immediately with the details seen on the beast.  

Yes, Milburn barked out "reptile" in his description.  

I'm sure, if given the opportunity, Milburn's description would have been updated to include non-reptile traits with the setback his mouth had but he, as well as, Fifield had communication problems shortly after saying "reptile".

ignorantGuy

Nov-22-2019 8:04 AM

BigDave Only a small caveat, there are 3 families of worms, only of which having segmented bodies like the earthworm. Look at this short article about the roundworm https://feluno.weebly.com/roundworms.html# which states that it moves through water like snakes.

BigDave

Nov-25-2019 7:42 AM

Certainly Ignorant Guy ;)

Going back to the TIME of Prometheus and Concept Stages, (Originally we had Centipede Creatures) but looking at the Black Goo it seemed to Evolve Certain Organisms where it would Maintain some of the Organisms Traits but then Replace others with some other Organisms Traits... 

Some of the Concepts for Prometheus and prior (Alien Engineers) had indicated Organisms with a Atheistic/Traits of Mollusca Organisms, The Trilobite Certainly having Quite a lot of that Aesthetic, but also this is how the Face Hugger Stage of STARBEAST was also described.

At that Time we could Ponder or be Drawn to Speculate that the Black Goo had traced its Origins to some Organism that had Characteristics of a Mollusca that for Some Reason the Engineers saw something with this Organisms to Invest in Re-Engineering and Experimenting with them.

Sorry Chli for this reply being OFF-TOPIC.

However... as i said before, and this is in Regards to Speculation and Broader Exploration of any Genetic Memory concerning the Xenomorph.

I think a lot of Fans expected the Franchise to be explored in a more ALIEN and Lovecraftian way than what we got... And while a bit OFF-TOPIC and especially in Context to the Idea/Story that Michelle was exploring.

I think that some Lovecraftian Elements should be Explored, i think going back to the Starbeast should be Explored, and so if the Starbeast was Explored as a more Lovecraftian/Mollusk like Species that had a Parasitical Procreation where say they can PASS-ON some Genetic Memory with their Procreation, then this would make this Species being able to IN EFFECT be able to be Re-Incarnated

The Original Idea of Jon Spaights which i explored here THE ENGINEERS: THE VERGE OF GODHEAD

Had shown the Engineers were TRYING to gain some kind of Immortality, but in this idea it was to attempt to By-Pass a Physical Form  here is roughly what that idea was "The Engineers believe themselves to be on the verge of a Great Transcendence in which they will abandon their physical form and flight into the ten-dimensional multiverse as Creatures of pure energy"

This was NEVER really Explored in the Prequels, However when trying to make a Connection and looking at STARBEAST then if the Starbeast Organism has a Procreation where they could PASS-ON their Memories and become Re-incarnated then this would be some kind of Immortality

Surely this would be something a Ancient Race of would be wanna be Gods would be interested in, in a attempt to gain some kind of Re-Incarnation... so that would give a Good Reason for their Experiments.

This could work with Michelle's idea of this being Unintended for the use of Mankind and maybe the Engineers and so that if a Starbeast was Explored then it could be that NO-MATTER how they try, the Engineers could ONLY produce Organisms with the Parasitic Life-Cycle and NEVER gain the Genetic Memory, or that the Starbeast Spores could ONLY pass this onto a Certain Host Organism and so any Organism like Humanoids would instead be DEALT a Curse instead...

Funny enough some 250+ Years after ALIEN the USM Company manage to Clone/Obtain a Xenomorph from Ripley DNA....  but HOWEVER... it is the Ripley Clone with MIXED DNA that had Gifted Genetic Memory which we can attribute to the Xenomorph DNA.

So in this IDEA... then Ironically Ripley 8 has become what the Engineers maybe had attempted to Achieve?

This of-course is just to Speculate how we could FIT in a Deeper Connection to Genetic Memory and the Xenomorph, it is in No-Way to suggest this was ever the Plan.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

sneazzy95

Jan-14-2020 6:04 PM

This thread is my favorite in this forum, it explains the situation in details.

Mini Militia App Lock 7Zip

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